From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: December 23, 1999 Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 12:16 AM KR-net users group Digest for Thursday, December 23, 1999. 1. Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 2. Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 3. main spar protection 4. Re: main spar protection 5. Note on varnishing 6. Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 7. Re: Shelter for the KR 8. RE: Spruce treatment 9. Virus advise 10. Instument Panel 11. Re: main spar protection 12. Skinning the fuselage 13. Re: Skinning the fuselage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 From: "Richard Parker" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 05:28:33 PST X-Message-Number: 1 >>The best way to get snow and ice off of planes that are parked >>outside is to use buckets of hot water. Unfortunately I don't think >>this >>would work out that well on a airplane built of something >>other than >>aluminum. Not to say that I havent done it but it sounds great but in reality the water can run into your hinges and freeze up shortly there after locking up your control surfaces. Add some ethylene glycol to the hot water. Rich Parker Peterborough, NH 15'F outside and climbing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 From: "Cary Honeywell" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:27:30 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Parker To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:29 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 >Add some ethylene glycol to the hot water. > And leave all domestic and wild fauna at home else they buy the big one. -Cary Honeywell - Ottawa Ontario Canada caryh@home.com ve3ev@rac.ca Home page http://24.112.208.98/welcome.shtml KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: main spar protection From: "Robert Smith" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:38:57 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 As long as we seem to be on the thread of protection from the elements, I have this question: Just before I closed the web on my main spar, I coated all the interior spruce and ply with run-of-the mill hardware store variety polyurethane varnish that I diluted 1 to 3 (to save weight). Had I to do it again, I would have used some kind of epoxy paint or diluted epoxy glue and certainly not diluted it. But unfortunately its a done deal (the spar is closed) and I am now wondering if what I did is adequate. I suppose it is. Any comments? Bob Smith, Albany NY mailto:rsmith5@nycap.rr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main spar protection From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:14:46 EST X-Message-Number: 4 Bill Not to worry! There are some 50 year old aircraft whose spars have been treated with varnish just the way you have and they will probably outlast you and I. The big secret is to make sure that water does not pool in areas and remain there. Good ventilation whether the aircraft is indoors or out, is the secret. Make sure drain vents are located in the lowest part of the aircraft when the aircraft is at rest. Another topic. We lost a Learjet some years back when plain water was used to remove ice in the winter time, the ice ran into the aileron and froze in flight. Set up flutter and the plane lost a wing. Could have happened in the summer also, with temperatures at the altitude the Lears fly. Best thing is to make sure nothing is sloshing around in the plane on preflight. (Probably pertains to the pilot and passengers as well.) Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Note on varnishing From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:17:04 -0600 X-Message-Number: 5 A note about varnishing wood: Those of us who have a fabric covered airplane are concerned with the gluing process lifting varnish from wood surfaces. I've been using the two part epoxy varnish I bought from Wicks Aircraft on my TEAM Eros project. My experience is that this varnish seems to flow on and penetrate the wood better than regular polyurethane. I used a thinned first coat followed by a second unthinned coat. I suppose this is akin to thinning and applying your left over epoxy (after a layup) to the wood. The downside is the cost - about $30.00 per quart., but I figure that I'm only doing this process once and I want to use the best materials I can afford. Ed Janssen .-----Original Message----- From: Robert Smith To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:42 AM Subject: [kr-net] main spar protection >As long as we seem to be on the thread of protection from the elements, I >have this question: > >Just before I closed the web on my main spar, I coated all the interior >spruce and ply with run-of-the mill hardware store variety polyurethane >varnish that I diluted 1 to 3 (to save weight). Had I to do it again, I >would have used some kind of epoxy paint or diluted epoxy glue and certainly >not diluted it. But unfortunately its a done deal (the spar is closed) and I >am now wondering if what I did is adequate. I suppose it is. > >Any comments? > >Bob Smith, Albany NY > >mailto:rsmith5@nycap.rr.com > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: December 22, 1999 From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:52:29 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 6 Doesn't happen. Using regular hot water works fine. Not only that it is safe for the airplane and the environment. In cold temps the hot water melts the ice and then evaporates very quickly. Glycol is used where there is a chance the aircraft will see icing conditions before and during flight. On a clear, cold morning glycol is a waste of time, effort, and money. Not to mention it's a major hazard to the environment and it stinks! Its been done this way for many years. In extreme cold temps (-30f) it works to help remove the frost from ice fog accumulation. Colder than that you can't fly recips anyway. Why are we discussing this because we cant pour hot water on our KRs anyway. The drastic change in temperature would cause the composite structure to stress crack! --- Richard Parker wrote: > > Add some ethylene glycol to the hot water. > > Rich Parker > Peterborough, NH > 15'F outside and climbing. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > mikemims@home.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Shelter for the KR From: DThomas773@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:32:39 EST X-Message-Number: 7 Chuck Wilcoxen, who spent many years building wood airplanes, told me to never cover a wooden airplane. His theory was that a waterproof cover would trap moisture underneath and hold it there. When the temperature rose the wood gets a steam bath. For what it's worth. Dennis Thomas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Spruce treatment From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:36:21 -0300 X-Message-Number: 8 Dears KRnets I reed the Larry´s mail, very complete and informed. I keep it. I want to communicate to the partners of our net by way of contribution, my experience in treatment of mushrooms that perhaps can be of utility. I am restoring an old Aer Macchi MB308. Almost the whole empenaje was to the bleakness during years and was almost destroyed (I have same photos) and full with mushrooms. The wood was black in some places. In surgery the formaline tablets are used to sterilize elements in 48 hs. The procedure is simple and it consists on containing the elements to sterilize in a recipient (double nylon bag for us) during 48 hs. I left them during one month. The formaline doesn't attack the wood. The product acts as a vapor and it disappears when you taking out the elements of the bag. That simple, and cheap. With 20 or 30 tablets you can sterilize the whole wood for a KR. When taking it out of the bags it is necessary to paint it immediately (one day after) with diluted epoxi or poliurethane enamel. Eduardo emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Virus advise From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:10:54 -0800 X-Message-Number: 9 I think those of you who use anti virus programs should seriously consider checking your software developers web site for new virus information files on a daily basis until after the New Year. I good friend of mine that works for Symantec (spelling?) advises that virus activity will more than likely go ballistic shortly after New Years day. Hackers are using the Y2K bug scare (caused by our media) to try and cause pandemonium with viruses that emulate so called Y2K problems. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Instument Panel From: "Rick Hubka" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:18:53 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 Could I please get on the list for receiving the Panel Software CD. Only need it 1 day and will forward it on. In regards to Instruments panel. The plans don't really define an exact forward/aft position. For a KR-2S, could a few builders using DF Canopies send me location measurements for/aft and the height of the instument panel referencing above and below the top of the longeron. I'll be forming for the forward deck soon and any help you can send me will get me pointed in the right direction. Thanks Rick Hubka Email: rick@hubka.com Web Site: www.hubka.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada My thought for the day: "I started out with nothing & still have most of it left" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main spar protection From: AviationMech@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:51:24 EST X-Message-Number: 11 After a long period of storage (two years) I inspected my wings as part of a reassembly process and discovered some delamination on the D section (fwd of the Front Spar. I opened the area and found that a mouse had built a habitat in the D section consisting of grasses and other fiberous material. Like all housing, this had its toilet located along the web with no plumbing accommodate the urine. My spar soaked up the urine and rotted. I made the decision to build new, rather then repair. I completely disassembeled the original to save the rear spar. Inside the wing all the spruce and plywood, except for the urine soaked area, was as new. At the time of construction, the spar recieved two coats of clear poly. This occured 9 years after original construction. Lee Robbins dba Aviation Mechanic AviationMech@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Skinning the fuselage From: "David Goodman" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:22:10 X-Message-Number: 12 Gents, I just finished both sides of my boat. The next step seems to be one of some debate out there... do I glue the plywood on before or after I begin to bend the sides and glue the cross braces in place? Looking at photos of other KRs, it would appear that the sides bow to the classic banana boat shape during this bending. If the plywood is put on first will it prevent this bending? If so, will it damage the longerons due to excessive resistance? In either case, will I need to use the steam/hot towel trick again to affect this bending, and if so, how does this affect the plywood if it is already glued to the sides? I am planning to glue the plywood on before bending as I am a one man operation here and it seems to be easier to do. Additionally, I intend to keep the sides straight until aft of the seat to reduce drag and increase shoulder room. I just want to make sure I understand what I am doing and what the ramifications are prior to proceeding. Thank you in advance for the help. Zipper Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Skinning the fuselage From: cartera Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:55:49 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 David Goodman wrote: > > Gents, I just finished both sides of my boat. The next step seems to be > one of some debate out there... do I glue the plywood on before or after I > begin to bend the sides and glue the cross braces in place? Looking at > photos of other KRs, it would appear that the sides bow to the classic > banana boat shape during this bending. If the plywood is put on first will > it prevent this bending? If so, will it damage the longerons due to > excessive resistance? In either case, will I need to use the steam/hot > towel trick again to affect this bending, and if so, how does this affect > the plywood if it is already glued to the sides? > > I am planning to glue the plywood on before bending as I am a one man > operation here and it seems to be easier to do. Additionally, I intend to > keep the sides straight until aft of the seat to reduce drag and increase > shoulder room. I just want to make sure I understand what I am doing and > what the ramifications are prior to proceeding. Thank you in advance for > the help. > > Zipper Goodman > zipperts@whidbey.net > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com Hi Zipper, Think about it, yes a lot of fellows glue the ply on before bending, but you have to do it in steps bend a little and let it sit for a few days. As for myself I did the frame first and glued it all together, to me it is a lot easier to adjust and then put on the ply. I did not find it all that difficult. However, my thoughts are that if you put the ply on first there will always be a stress there even though when everything comes together straight. It's your choice. Do not use steam it does not work all that well, use just water, a damp towel over the stress area will work better. I know everyone has their own idea, but it's your choice not that one idea is so much better than the other, just as long as it works for you. Merry Christmas to all the KRNetters! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com