From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: January 18, 2000 Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:02 AM KR-NET Digest2 for Tuesday, January 18, 2000. 1. Re: Terra Transponder & Rand Safety 2. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 3. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 4. Re: Engine Timing 5. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 6. Re: Wood 7. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 8. Miscellaneous stuff 9. New Member - HAPI conversion 10. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 11. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 12. Re: Engine Timing 13. Re: canopy latching 14. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 15. Re: canopy latching 16. Re: Decal 17. Re: New Member 18. Re: Terra Transponder & Rand Safety 19. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 20. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 21. Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Terra Transponder & Rand Safety From: Donald Reid Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:51:28 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 Cliff Cast wrote: > However, I read that > the designer died in a Rand. I can not imagine him making an obvious > serious pilot error in his own design? Ken had a bad case of "had to get home now" and flew into really bad weather. Go to my web site and follow the link to the Sport Aviation articles. One of those is the writeup about his crash. Or go directly to http://www.erols.com/donreid/Kr79-3.HTM -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:24:49 -0600 X-Message-Number: 2 > And this means what??? Although he may not have put it very dimplomatically, it means that Jeannette Rand's daughter is a lawyer, and could make somebody's life very miserable, whether the case has merit (or a chance in he*l) or not. It would take very little effort to whip out a few pieces of paper that could cost somebody tens of thousands of dollars. I know. My father's been sued twice for absolutely no reason other than deep pockets. It cost him well over $60,000 to settle the two, and he WON! Until (if ever) the US system forces those who loose court cases to pay for both side's attorneys, we'll continue to have this problem. I hope I don't start a debate on this, because this is not the place for it. Just an explanation... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: Steven Eberhart Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:50:21 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 3 Guys, just remember that the sale of KR-2 plans put Jeanette's daughter through LAW SCHOOL. Just thought you might have forgotten this little fact. And yes, I meant to shout. Steve Eberhart On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Dave King wrote: > At 03:31 PM 01/17/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >Be careful. The KR plans are copyrighted and if you go > >rendering 3D cad files of how it is constructed and > >sharing them on the web you will find yourself in a > >lawsuit. Trust me on this one. > The copyright only extend to the original drawings not > anything past that. He can't make copies of them and > sell them, though he could if he wanted change a few things > on the set and be legal If he wanted to redraw them and > sell plans to his "RK" design then its still ok. It may not be > morally right but legally so. As far as designing or lofting > a 3D model then he's totally free of any legal obligations. > Kr doesn't market or sell a 3d model and would have to prove > that his model adversly affected thier sales before any > damages would be awarded. > > Dave > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: newtech@newtech.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-81055A@telelists.com > Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine Timing From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:51:39 EST X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 1/16/00 11:36:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, joejbeyer@earthlink.net writes: << Go with a mabneto...... >> Guys, I'm with Mark on this one. The magneto is ancient technology is an absolute monkey works inside just waiting to come apart. If you've never owned a certified airplane, you don't know the trouble you have with AD's for mags. Points are about as simple as it gets and reliable beyond belief. Don't be swayed by the fact the "big boys" use them. We're still using V airways, Bridl intersection (where the hel^$%^ is that), VOR's and calling an ILS a "precision" approach........you talking ancient...........................Well, we've always done it that way, so it must be right, Not. Dana Overall 2000 Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "J. Miller" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:30:03 -0800 X-Message-Number: 5 There have been quite a few comments re: the development of 3D CAD files for the KR2 series of homebuilts. I'm just wondering if anyone ever thought about simply asking the great folks at RR if that option is viable? Remember 3D models alone are a far cry from buildable,dimensioned, construction documents. Additionally I didn't see any refernece to the purchase or sale of these 3D files in the original message which is a special issue relavent to Copyright infringment. Just an observation. In any event I do appreciate the VOLUMES of builder tips and online help that the KR-Net provides. Thanks KR-netters. Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wood From: "Henning Mortensen" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:01:44 PST X-Message-Number: 6 Hi Adrian, I just got the wood for the rear spar from Jean. So he is serious about retiring, man I gotta get some more epoxy from him first. Henning >From: cartera >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Wood >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:04:51 -0700 > >Hello KRnetters, >Could the fellows that got any wood from Jean Peters, Western Aircraft >Supply, Calgary let me know what you got by mailing me direct. Jean is >thinking about retiring next year and was wondering how he did with this >group last year. Thank You! > >Happy Building! >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >Calgary, Alberta >Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: henning_kr2@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-94846H@telelists.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:05:59 -0600 X-Message-Number: 7 J Miller wrote: > for the KR2 series of homebuilts. I'm just wondering if anyone ever thought > about simply asking the great folks at RR if that option is viable? Why don't you call her and ask? Her phone number is (714) 898-3811. We'll be waiting to hear your report... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Miscellaneous stuff From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:46:35 -0600 X-Message-Number: 8 KRNetHeads, I'm doing a little house cleaning on my web site, after discovering that I have 89 Megabytes of stuff out there! Anyway, I'm throwing most of it away, but found a few gems that I don't want to throw out, so I've stuffed them all in a little Pandora's box at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html . It's accessible from my web page too. It starts out with a little spiel on my web photography, and after that it's just a bunch of stuff (60 images) that I've thrown up there over the years to illustrate various points, in no particular order. I'll spiff it up a little later, but there's something there for everyone, I'll bet. I also plan to list a series of "rants", as well as "what I'd do differently", one of these days. I wouldn't consider any of this stuff legitimate design information. More like food for thought, or the ravings of a lunatic. Back to the basement... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: New Member - HAPI conversion From: "Seifert, Richard E" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:57:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 9 I have already responded to Cliff directly, but after thinking about it, decided it should go on the net as it is safety related. This response is related to the second part of Cliff's question number 2. Hi Cliff I have a little over 400 hours on a HAPI conversion and my hanger partner has about the same time. Both engines were built by ourselves and used HAPI accessory cases, flywheels and alternators. The flywheels were cast aluminum and contained the magnets for the alternator. Both flywheels failed at about 100 hours. The failure was not catastrophic as we caught them when we pulled the planes out of the hanger by the prop. The crankshaft end play, which should not exceed .005" was more like .030". Inspection reviled a crack between each dowl pin hole on the flywheel allowing main part of the flywheel to move aft. Since the crank end play is determined by shims between the main part of the flywheel and the rear main bearing, the cracks allowed the flywheel to move rearward and the clearance distance to increase the endplay. In my case Dan Diel in Oklahoma came to my rescue and machined down a stock VW flywheel and remounted the magnets at a very reasonable price. As an result a check of crank end play has become part of my pre-flight inspection. You can just barely feel .005" but .030" is very noticeable. Ignored this failure could become catastrophic, lockup the engine, and destroy the alternator. That's why they call them experimental. Need I say more? Rich Seifert KR-2 N56SR Subject: New Member From: "Cliff Cast" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:11:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 19 Hi gang, I am a new member of KR-net. I just bought a complete KR2-S from a second owner. It will arrive next week. I have a couple questions: 1. The tail number is N284RV. It was built by Miller/Vanlandingham (this is on the AC). Does anyone know these guys, I'd like to call them and chat about the plane? 2. This plane has not flown in a couple years. I will be putting avionics in it when it first gets here. Plus I am having an A/P friend annual it. Any pointers on what I should pay special attention to? It has a VW 1835 in it H.A.P.I. Conversion (what ever that is), tuned exhaust, slick mag, elevator trim., Electric elevator boost, electronic fuel boost pump and transfer pump, Retractable gear (was converted for S series), electric starter, Gel battery, Sterba prop. 3. Also, what are the rules on giving instruction in an experimental like this? If a person wanted to buy one or get time in one can I do that as a CFI??? I called a FSDO, but they had a bit of confusion on the issue as well. I am waiting on a call back from them, but was wondering if ya'll had experience with these issues. Thanks guys, -----------(Cliff Cast - CFI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: Dave King Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:21:52 -0800 X-Message-Number: 10 At 06:24 AM 01/18/2000 -0600, you wrote: >> And this means what??? >Although he may not have put it very dimplomatically, it means that >Jeannette Rand's daughter is a lawyer, and could make somebody's life very >miserable, whether the case has merit (or a chance in he*l) or not. It >would take very little effort to whip out a few pieces of paper that could >cost somebody tens of thousands of dollars. I know. My father's been sued >twice for absolutely no reason other than deep pockets. It cost him well >over $60,000 to settle the two, and he WON! Until (if ever) the US system >forces those who loose court cases to pay for both side's attorneys, we'll >continue to have this problem. I hope I don't start a debate on this, >because this is not the place for it. Just an explanation... I guess I could have been nicer to Mike but I er ah /shame mode on ;-] Your right about the cost of suits and legal fee's but that still doesn't change copyright law. And if you look around you'll probably find the odd lawyer pumping gas. People shouldn't be intimidated by lawyers, annoyed by them but never be intimidated. My original point was that RR does own the copyright on thier drawings, liturature and possably the name but it doesn't extend to new works created by other people. An example is the drawing you have on your webpage Mark. Is it legal? ;-] Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:43:18 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 If a person makes copies and sell anyone's plans they are STEALING!! Lets call it what it is. I have thousands of dollars invested in the development of the folding wing kit and the "MISSING LINK" vacuum pump drive system for VW powered airplane engines. If a person uses my property with out paying they are a thief!!! When a set of plans are sold to any one they are to be used only by the person ordering and paying for the item. R. W. Moore, Inventor. Original Message ----- From: Dave King To: KR-net users group Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 11:04 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 > At 03:31 PM 01/17/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >Be careful. The KR plans are copyrighted and if you go > >rendering 3D cad files of how it is constructed and > >sharing them on the web you will find yourself in a > >lawsuit. Trust me on this one. > The copyright only extend to the original drawings not > anything past that. He can't make copies of them and > sell them, though he could if he wanted change a few things > on the set and be legal If he wanted to redraw them and > sell plans to his "RK" design then its still ok. It may not be > morally right but legally so. As far as designing or lofting > a 3D model then he's totally free of any legal obligations. > Kr doesn't market or sell a 3d model and would have to prove > that his model adversly affected thier sales before any > damages would be awarded. > > Dave > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17710K@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine Timing From: Tom Crawford Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:12:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 12 Stanley Mello wrote: > > I have a completed strecheded KR2- 1 That I have just completed and it has > passed the FAA inspection. I am now doing taxi tests and am having a > problem with a low static RPM. The Engine is an 1835cc with a 52X46 Props > Inc. propeller. With this prop it should turn 2950 RPM but I have only > 2700. My ignition is a Compufire driven by an 009 distributor. I have not > been able to find accurate information as to what is the proper way to time > this combination. Does anyone have any info? > > Thanks > > Melloflyer > ______________________________________________________ > Stanley, I reply to your question over the net rather than P-mail because I think others might be interested. With the Compufire on a 009, you have to set the timing when the advance is all the way in- this is at about 2500 RPM. There are ways to calculate the amount of advance and set it static, but I think the easiest way to do it is- Warm up the engine. Take the prop off. Hook up a timing light Rev the engine to 2500 RPM so the advance is all the way in and set it where you want it. (25-28 deg. BTDC) Yer done. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: canopy latching From: Tom Raby GRE/ER PwrSysOp Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:29 -0600 X-Message-Number: 13 Required or not, it seems like its worth a little effort. Doesn't take much of a bump to incapacitate a pink little pilot. Tom -----Original Message----- From: KR2616TJ@aol.com [mailto:KR2616TJ@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 5:43 PM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: canopy latching In a message dated 1/16/00 11:27:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, joejbeyer@earthlink.net writes: << The FAA requires a means of access from the outside in case of an emergency. >> I would like to look this up. Can you give me a hand and post the reg. for experimental class airplanes that states this? Thanks in advance. Dana Overall 2000 Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: traby@grenergy.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-103355K@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: Tom Raby GRE/ER PwrSysOp Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:07:18 -0600 X-Message-Number: 14 If a guy is willing to do the work of modeling the KR and give it away, why not offer it to RR, or propose a license deal with them. We were all inspired by the RR design, let's be their advocates. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:25 AM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 > And this means what??? Although he may not have put it very dimplomatically, it means that Jeannette Rand's daughter is a lawyer, and could make somebody's life very miserable, whether the case has merit (or a chance in he*l) or not. It would take very little effort to whip out a few pieces of paper that could cost somebody tens of thousands of dollars. I know. My father's been sued twice for absolutely no reason other than deep pockets. It cost him well over $60,000 to settle the two, and he WON! Until (if ever) the US system forces those who loose court cases to pay for both side's attorneys, we'll continue to have this problem. I hope I don't start a debate on this, because this is not the place for it. Just an explanation... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: traby@grenergy.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-103355K@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: canopy latching From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:20:18 EST X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 1/18/00 5:10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, Traby@grenergy.com writes: << Required or not, it seems like its worth a little effort. Doesn't take much of a bump to incapacitate a pink little pilot. Tom >> Tom, I wasn't saying that I didn't think an outside latch was a good idea, I just have never seen that requirement in writing for an airworthiness certificate being issued. John, if you can find it, I really would like to read it. Dana Overall 2000 Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Decal From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:15:49 +0000 X-Message-Number: 16 I think they will look good too, but I'm not sure how they will withstand weather. (I don't believe they are vinyl.). They should be ready soon. Christopher Stewart wrote: > Ross, let me know when you get the decals made, I would like to purchase a > few of them, I think it will look good on my the rudder of my plane, > > Chris Stewart > Whitesville WV > KR-1XL > N823CS(reserved) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross R. Youngblood" > To: "KR-net users group" > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:30 PM > Subject: [kr-net] Decal > > > To all who posted replys regarding decal artwork. A KR-netter (Jeffrey > > A. LeTempt) sent me a converted file, and simultaniously the vendor > > figured > > a way to process .gif and .jpg files. I saw the proof sheet Friday, and > > > > all that was missing was the www.krnet.org on the bottom. They > > new proofs should be ready Tuesday. I am also getting quotes on > > iron-on transfers. > > > > -- Regards > > Ross > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cstewart@kvinet.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-162239E@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17523X@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Member From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:19:12 +0000 X-Message-Number: 17 Cliff, The HAPI engine should be a good one. HAPI was purchased by Mosler motors and I have not kept up with the engine since that time. Regarding Trainng. You can't use an experimental for hire unless it is licenced for training purposes (a special situation). You could however, "share expenses" I believe. Vans Aircraft has an RV licensed for training, you can get some information about this via their website I believe. -- Ross Cliff Cast wrote: > Hi gang, > > I am a new member of KR-net. I just bought a complete KR2-S from a second > owner. It will arrive next week. > > I have a couple questions: > > 1. The tail number is N284RV. It was built by Miller/Vanlandingham (this > is on the AC). Does anyone know these guys, I'd like to call them and chat > about the plane? > > 2. This plane has not flown in a couple years. I will be putting avionics > in it when it first gets here. Plus I am having an A/P friend annual it. > Any pointers on what I should pay special attention to? > > It has a VW 1835 in it H.A.P.I. Conversion (what ever that is), tuned > exhaust, slick mag, elevator trim., Electric elevator boost, electronic > fuel boost pump and transfer pump, Retractable gear (was converted for S > series), electric starter, Gel battery, Sterba prop. > > 3. Also, what are the rules on giving instruction in an experimental like > this? If a person wanted to buy one or get time in one can I do that as a > CFI??? I called a FSDO, but they had a bit of confusion on the issue as > well. I am waiting on a call back from them, but was wondering if ya'll > had experience with these issues. > > Thanks guys, > > -----------(Cliff Cast - CFI > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17523X@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Terra Transponder & Rand Safety From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:32:36 +0000 X-Message-Number: 18 Cliff, I have a working Terra Transponder (purchased new), but it's in my KR and not for sale. RE: NTSB reports. I concur. Ken Rand wasVFR on top over bad weather returning from a fly-in. He ran out of fuel and had to descend into clouds/terrain. More info on this can be found if you search the KR-net archives via the http://www.krnet.org website. Cliff Cast wrote: > Does anyone have a working or yellow tagged Terra Transponder? > > Also, I have looked at NTSB reports and such for the Rand. I have > concluded that the serious crashes were due to serious pilot errors or > unknown. I could not find any obvious structural failure or anything like > that. I feel the plane is well designed and safe. However, I read that > the designer died in a Rand. I can not imagine him making an obvious > serious pilot error in his own design? What is the general consensus on > the safety of the Rand. And does anyone have information specific to > control surface or structural failures? > > Thanks, > > Cliff Cast > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17523X@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:33:40 -0600 X-Message-Number: 19 ----------------------------------------------------- From: Steven Eberhart To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:00 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 > >Guys, just remember that the sale of KR-2 plans put Jeanette's daughter >through LAW SCHOOL. > >Just thought you might have forgotten this little fact. And yes, I meant >to shout. > >Steve Eberhart > Do you really think that selling a few plans yeals that kind of $$? I you do I have some property I would like to offer to sell you. KRRon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: Laheze@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:39:58 EST X-Message-Number: 20 $ 200.00 X 8000 = ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 From: "Wendell Hinman" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:48:51 -0800 X-Message-Number: 21 except its more like 9,500 X 250 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR-net users group Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:39 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 3D CAD files of KR-2 > $ 200.00 X 8000 = ? > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: WHIN77@msn.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-56026A@telelists.com > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com