Ed Blocher
Moody, AL
mailto: kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF6671.B8BD1400-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T88 glue From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:16:40 EST X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 1/24/00 12:57:06 PM, pjohnson@voyageur.ca writes: <> You have our undivided attention..... Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: NTSB REPORT From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:12:47 EST X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 1/24/00 12:36:40 PM, rselix@earthlink.net writes: <> From what I've read of the NTSB reports in the past, I would guess the emphasis should be put on FLYING the aircraft. Scenario 1. Spend several years building while not flying to keep your skills up, and then jumping in for the first flight. Recipe for disaster. Scenario 2. Engine quits on takeoff ... Let me guess, you have put so much time and money into building the airplane, there's no way you want to set it down straight ahead in a cornfield. Make 180 back towards runway at 500 ft. agl. Stall/spin. Scenario 3. The list goes on. I would be very interested in seeing the actual breakdown of causal factors identified by the NTSB which resulted in aircraft crashes. I would bet that pilot error would dominate the list. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T88 glue From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:05:54 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 5 And because you didnt tell us how to do it you did not see any reference to it again! How do you do it? Let us know! Share your idea dude! --- Peter Johnson wrote: > I'll give you an example, over the 20+years I've > been building I have come up with a method of finish sanding an epoxy/cloth finish which is simple, > easy, fast, and ensures almost no risk of > oversanding, and will lead to a very 'flat' - ie. smooth - finish, yet I've never seen reference to it on > this list or others, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing attach fittings From: "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:18:20 -0600 X-Message-Number: 6 Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 12:51 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: wing attach fittings >what is inconel 718. Is a type of Stainless Steel used primarally in the chemical industry. Is't not as strong as Cromally Steel. Has differnet physical properties. > KRRon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: aileron travel From: "macwood" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:24:00 -0000 X-Message-Number: 7 Larry, Don't know if you got my previous mail, it's not showing on my screen- The critical dimension to get your aileron range ,is the distance from the hinge centre line to the pin centre , this should be 2.1/2". This wasn't shown on my drawings , and I got it wrong, although I was told by a KR guru that the design range was a bit on the optomistic side. All the best, Mac Wood ---- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner To: KR-net users group Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 11:33 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: aileron travel > At 09:49 PM 1/19/00 EST, you wrote: > >Help--------the plans call for 20 degrees up and 10 degrees down... > >My notes show that I was once told to go 1 1/2" up and 3/4" down.. > >I measured a KR once that was 1 1/4" up and 1" down. > >Now that I'm finally at the stage of doing it, I find that's a long way from > >20 and 10. > >What should I do????? > >>Lynn Hyder WA7YXF N37LH Redmond, Oregon > ============================snip============================================ > === > > Lynn, > > Unless you have good reason, understand the concequences, and are willing > to take the risk, STICK TO THE PLANS !! My thought is that you have no > way of verifying the measurements in you notes will give you the degree > of deflection called for in the plans. ERASE THE NOTE. Use a degree > meter ( $5.00 ) or a smart level to get the deflection called for > in the plans. This measurement may have come from a flying aircraft > but that doesn't mean it's correct. Assume all information to be wrong > until proven correct. > > Larry Flesner > KR builder, Tripacer driver, skydiver hauler > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: macwood@tinyworld.co.uk > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-161811R@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Crashworthiness...and cockpit seat design From: Jerry Conners Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:11:24 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 8 Mark and KR Net Thought you and others might want copies. Papers address energy absorption of impacts. I am considering working these ideas into my KR-2 composite seat design. Jer ===== Jerry L. Conners, PE Civil Engineer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [Fwd: -009's and VW aircraft engines] From: "Bruce S. Campbell" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:51:17 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C8CAECF8EE4B46BEF26C7740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a little forward from the VW group from Bob Hoover that may answer some of the recent questions on the 009 distributer, total advance, etc. Bruce S. Campbell Tampa --------------C8CAECF8EE4B46BEF26C7740 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from lists.kz ([216.129.136.8]) by mail00.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with SMTP id s8piqc.a6a.33qs884 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20083 invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2000 22:32:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact VW-help@lists.kz; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Reply-To: VW@lists.kz Delivered-To: mailing list VW@lists.kz Received: (qmail 20076 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 22:32:23 -0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.41) by ns1.starfire.douglas.ma.us with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 22:32:23 -0000 Received: from Veeduber@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id f.8.658b7c (9559) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:58:17 -0500 (EST) From: Veeduber@aol.com Message-ID: <8.658b7c.25be24f9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:58:17 EST Subject: -009's and VW aircraft engines To: VW@lists.kz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 In a message dated 1/24/00 3:43:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, OWalinski@aol.com writes: << All right..here is my question...What is the drawback to using a standard 009 distributor and point system on an Aero VW engine... In my limited experience driving VW's, I have had one rotor fail...and it was flogged to death. Other than that, the point/distributor ignition seems almost bulletproff compared to magnetos/CDI and other more "complicated" setups. >> ---------------------------------------------- To All: When properly maintained a centrifugal-advance distributor is a reliable system which typically provides a graceful failure signiture, giving you some degree of warning of impending doom :-) But before using such a system on an aircraft engine you'd better make damn sure you know what 'proper maintenance' entails. Then learn to recognize the symptoms of a leaky capacitor, worn rubbing block, failing graphite button and so forth. The key point here is that YOU must embody these skills. Don't expect to find them in the warbag of the local VW guru. Most haven't a clue when it comes to the finer points of ignition systems. What works fine in a car can kill you in a plane. Indeed, your mention of the -009 is evidence of a potential problem. The -009 was NEVER installed on any factory-built Volkswagen. It is in fact a cheaply made after-market 'universal replacement' for the several centrifugal-advance distributors Volkswagen used on industrial engines and a very few of the early (25hp) buses. That means its advance rate and curve must be adjusted for the engine on which it is to be installed. Bosch used to provide a kit of springs and bob-weights for this task but I haven't seen one in twenty years. But a more serious problem has to do with the generally poor quality of the -009. If you dismantle the typical -009 and compare it to any of the early centrifugal distributors you will see just how cheaply this 'universal replacement' is made. New, right out of the box, a fair number of the ones I've used required rebuilding. Or throwing away. If at all possible, check the axial play of the mainshaft before buying the thing, or make some provision IN WRITING for returning the thing if you can't check it at the store. You need to dismantle it, pull the mainshaft, do the 'wiggle' test of the two bushings... or use snap gauges or an inside mike. Also clock the end-play and be sure the shims and oil seals are in place. (The oil seals are those two micarta washers.) The kit of shims needed to adjust end-play is still available from Robert Bosch & Co. but you'll have to track down a local source. You can forget the VW dealers. They divorced themselves from the air-cooled engine more than ten years ago. The spotty quality of such after-market parts reflects the labor practices common in the countries in which the parts are manufactured, where piece-rates are the norm -- the more parts you can crank out or slap together, the bigger your paycheck. Quality is the first thing to go under such a system. Secondly, you'll need to put the distributor on a Sun machine or similar device and verify the firing point of the cam. Volkswagne engines built prior to 1971 use distributors in which the distributors #3 cam lobe is ground with up to 4 degrees (!) of retardation (ie, 8 degrees at the crankshaft) to promote better cooling of #3 cylinder, which was bathed in the heated air coming off the internal oil cooler. It worked, but at a considerable upset to the engine's volumetric efficiency. When the oil cooler was moved into an external 'dog-house', the retardation was removed. See the problem here? The -009 is not indexed to the crankcase. It may be installed with any orientation. If you end up with the #3 lobe firing the #1 cylinder and the #3 lobe is retarded, the other three jugs will be ADVANCED by that amount, which is one of the more common reasons for all those kiddies to blow up all those bug engines the first time they climb a hill on a hot day :-) The retardation is only a factor if you are using points or one of the optically triggered systems that uses the cam as a reflector. The Pertronix and other magnetically triggered points-replacement devices typically provide for no retardation. (Optically trigged systems should be avoided in all cases. The VW distributor is not well sealed. Carbon granules from the central button combine with oil vapor to slowly obscure the IR sensor.) The other aspect of using a standard Kittering-type ignition system is provision of primary power. Proper function and maintenance of your dynamo and some form of ballasting its output, typically a small battery and voltage regulator, is even more important than which distributor or method of spark-generation you use. The Kitterning system (ie, the stock ignition system on virtually all automobiles from 1927 until the advent of electronic systems) is a proven system whose faults and failure modes are well understood. Electrically, it is less efficient than modern systems, requiring more power input due to losses in the switch (ie, the ignition points) and above 2500 rpm, showing the HV 'droop' common to the Kittering system (ie, as dwell time falls, so does total spark energy). A 12v CDI module will still fire the plugs with an input voltage as low as 8 volts. With the Kittering system you'll be in the trees by then. Mechanically there is simply no basis for comparison to modern systems, the parts count is too high. The bottom line is that a stock VW ignition system can be made to work on a lightplane engine based on VW components. The centrifugal advance mechanism allows for easy starting and, assuming you understand that no advance can occur until there is a change in engine speed, with proper manipulation of the throttle you may accelerate the engine without causing it to bog down. But don't expect to transfer automotive experience to your airplane engine. They are not a 1:1 match. Use a conservative amount of total advance. If you use anything over 28 degrees you will run the risk of detonation during climb-out, when your CHT will exceed that commonly seen in any vehicle. (This is largely an artifact of poor cooling too high a compression ratio.) You must also become aware of the uniquely different throttle response. The gyroscopic forces produced by even a lightweight propeller exceed those produced by the heaviest stock flywheel. If using a single, gravity fed carb, the runner length adds additional delay to the response between throttle movement and engine acceleration. Move the throttle in an abrupt manner and the next thing you hear could be nothing at all :-) I'll assume we're talking about an aircraft licensed in the 'experimental' catagory. Which means you are the Mechanic-in-Charge, not only of your airplane but of your fate. Gather all the information you can, use it to form a hypothesis. Then prove or disprove it by actual operation, by experimentation. The only valid decision in a case like this is one based on personal knowledge. Personally, I've flown with such systems. But I have more than forty years experience with the things. What works for me may not for thee and the best recommendation I can make is to think for yourself. -R.S.Hoover --------------C8CAECF8EE4B46BEF26C7740-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar sanding From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:22:07 +0000 X-Message-Number: 10 Danny, I used a Black & Decker Power Planer. -- Ross "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" wrote: > Hello KR worshipers > > I would like some advice on the sanding of the spars to fit the contour of > the airfoil, what is the best way to get this contour ? > By sanding, hand plaining ,machine plaining ,.....? > > Danny > South Africa > > E-Mail: livd0124@natref.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17523X@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Decals Are In From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:57:59 +0000 X-Message-Number: 11 The decals have arrived! Anyone who donates $20 to KR-net this year will recieve one as a "Thank-You" for supporting KR-net. If you just want to buy the decal, you can send in $8.75 to cover the costs of producing the initial batch, and postage. Make your checks payable to: Ross Youngblood 411 N Kyrene Rd Apt 153 Chandler, Az 85226 -- Regards Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: aileron travel From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:29:49 -0800 X-Message-Number: 12 Have you considered using trigonometry to calculate the correct distance up/down, given the angles and average width of the elevator? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: -009's and VW aircraft engines] From: Michael Taglieri Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 02:23:22 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 >Here's a little forward from the VW group from Bob Hoover that may >answer some of the recent questions on the 009 distributer, total >advance, etc. Is this the same Bob Hoover who's the famous aerobatic pilot? I didn't know he was a homebuilder at all, let alone an expert on VW engines. Mike Taglieri ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: aileron travel From: "Joe Beyer" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:58:35 -0800 X-Message-Number: 14 Why bother? It's not that sensitive in flight. Spend your time doing other things. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Jordan To: KR-net users group Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 7:29 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: aileron travel > Have you considered using trigonometry to calculate the correct > distance up/down, given the angles and average width of the > elevator? > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: joejbeyer@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-173184A@telelists.com > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com