From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: February 14, 2000 Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:14 AM KR-NET Digest2 for Monday, February 14, 2000. 1. Is KR suitable for unexperienced pilots? If so, Tail dragger or not? 2. Re: WAF 3. Re: KR With Ice 4. Re: Is KR suitable for unexperienced pilots? If so, Tail dragger or not? 5. Re: Plans for sale 6. Re: WAF 7. Re: KR With Ice 8. Re: KR With Ice 9. KR2-S unused plans needed 10. Re: KR With Ice 11. Re: kr2 in zepherhills,fl. 12. [Fwd: Prop bolts] 13. Re: Flight testing, is it really done? 14. Re: KR With Ice 15. prop bolt torque 16. Re: Prop Bolt Torque Info 17. KNet Membership 18. Re: KR With Ice 19. Re: KNet Membership 20. Re: KNet Membership/Info. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Is KR suitable for unexperienced pilots? If so, Tail dragger or not? From: "Juri Keyter" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 03:47:11 -0800 X-Message-Number: 1 Hi KR pilots I am interested in building or buying a KR2 but I am unsure about the KR being a plane for more experienced pilots. I have asked some EAA members and most claim that a KR is not a plane for beginners like me and that it would be dangerous for me to fly it. Others also claim that tail draggers are the thing to build and some don't. I am very new in the game and have NO flying experience. Your advice in this regard will be highly appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: WAF From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 06:53:28 EST X-Message-Number: 2 In a message dated 2/14/00 1:38:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, LIVD0124@natref.com writes: << Are the main WAF connected to each other with one bolt (main bolt) going through the top and one through the bottom or two at the top and two at the bottom? >> Two at the top and two at the bottom. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:01:49 EST X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 2/13/00 9:12:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, GARYKR2@cs.com writes: << While out flying today, I picked up about 1/8 inch of Rime ice. The "2" flew as if none was on it. Airspeed never dropped off, trim did not change. >> If you are going to fly this airplane in the ice, the one area you need to pay attention to is tail ice. The RAF 48 airfoil is not so leading edge dependent that a small amount of rime is going to have much affect, my opinion only. The horizontal stab is another story. It is a proven fact that the surface area of the plans built horizontal stab is not even on the bottom side of the area required chart. It need to be bigger in the first place. Now put ice on it to disrupt the flow and I believe it would be extremely susceptible to tail stall which would make this airplane unrecoverable. Rime usually applies to IMC as opposed to clear ice........where the $%@#$ did you have this airplane:-)??? Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Is KR suitable for unexperienced pilots? If so, Tail dragger or not? From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:32:57 -0600 X-Message-Number: 4 Juri, If you have no flying/aviation experience, I would recommend, as a first step, that you get some first before you continue. Get an introductory flight at your local airport and maybe start taking some flying lessons. Then you will be a bit better informed before you start plunking your hard earned cash into building or buying an airplane. Learning to fly isn't very similar to, say, driving a car and then buying a motorcycle to ride around. Next step is get a start on your homework. Visit some of the very good sites about the KR and start reading and reading and reading. If you're really serious about building, join the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and a local chapter. The more you learn, the more you'll know when your ready to look for a KR or start building. Ed -----Original Message----- From: Juri Keyter To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 5:51 AM Subject: [kr-net] Is KR suitable for unexperienced pilots? If so, Tail dragger or not? >Hi KR pilots > >I am interested in building or buying a KR2 but I am unsure about the KR >being a plane for more experienced pilots. > >I have asked some EAA members and most claim that a KR is not a plane for >beginners like me and that it would be dangerous for me to fly it. > >Others also claim that tail draggers are the thing to build and some >don't. > >I am very new in the game and have NO flying experience. > >Your advice in this regard will be highly appreciated. > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17739N@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plans for sale From: "Jim Sellars" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:45:24 -0400 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF76D0.37404FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perry; I just finished having my plane inspected and they told me that = I had to replace the cables for the rudder, to 1\8 inch rather than the = 3\32 that the plans called for. They said(DOT) that if I registered = that plan as an advanced ultralight I could leave it unchanged. However = it must be one of the planes that is approved by DOT for inclusion in = the class. They told me that this involved testing and qualifying the = airplane which maybe a very involved and costly process. I put to you = that if I was correctly informed, ( a very good question when you talk = burocracy in this country) you might be better off just building a very = nice little KR2. Regards; Jim -----Original Message----- From: Perry O'Keefe To: KR-net users group Date: February 12, 2000 12:44 PM Subject: [kr-net] Plans for sale =20 =20 Goodmorning all, =20 =20 I am new to the KRNet and was hoping that I could start off by = asking for your experience with an issue I have. Firstly, I just = purchased a KR-2 in progress and was looking for a set of complete plans = for same...the person I bought it from has lost theirs. Secondly, I = want to modify the wings to allow for a lesser stall speed to be able to = register it in Canada as an Ultralight, Advanced class..for this I need = to bring the stall speed to 45 MPH or less from it's current 52 MPH. =20 =20 My Qestion is this: Are their plans available that will acomplish = this or has anyone out there had success doing someting similar. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF76D0.37404FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Perry;  I just finished having = my plane=20 inspected and they told me that I had to replace the cables for the = rudder, to=20 1\8 inch rather than the 3\32 that the plans called for.  They = said(DOT)=20 that if I registered that plan as an advanced ultralight I could leave = it=20 unchanged.  However it must be one of the planes that is approved = by DOT=20 for inclusion in the class.  They told me that this involved = testing and=20 qualifying the airplane which maybe a very involved and costly = process.  I=20 put to you that if I was correctly informed, ( a very good question when = you=20 talk burocracy in this country) you might be better off just building a = very=20 nice little KR2.  Regards; Jim
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Perry O'Keefe <perryok@sprint.ca>
To:=20 KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
D= ate:=20 February 12, 2000 12:44 PM
Subject: [kr-net] Plans for = sale

Goodmorning all,
 
 
I am new to the KRNet and was hoping that I = could start=20 off by asking for your experience with an issue I have.  = Firstly, I=20 just purchased a KR-2 in progress and was looking for a set of = complete=20 plans for same...the person I bought it from has lost theirs. =20 Secondly, I want to modify the wings to allow for a lesser stall=20 speed to be able to register it in Canada as an Ultralight, = Advanced=20 class..for this I need to bring the stall speed to 45 MPH or less = from it's=20 current 52 MPH. 
 
My Qestion is this: Are their plans available = that will=20 acomplish this or has anyone out there had success doing = someting=20 similar. 
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF76D0.37404FE0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: WAF From: Donald Reid Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:40:44 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 >Are the main WAF connected to each other with one bolt (main bolt) going >through the top and one through the bottom or two at the top and two at the >bottom? >Drawing 19 is clear for the aft spar fittings but I don't find any reference >to the front mai spar. My current configuration is one bolt though the top >and one through the bottom. The plans call for one bolt on each, for a total of four bolts on each side. You can use one long bolt on the top and another on the bottom, but ONLY if you have a compression fitting between them. This would be a piece of tubing with a 3/8" diameter I.D. that fits between the WAF's. A 0.058" wall thickness would be sufficient. These compression fittings should be constructed very accurately so that the bearing surfaces (the ends of the tubing) are parallel to each other. When the bolt is torqued down, the WAF's will compress against that piece of tubing. There is NO loss of strength with this configuration. Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:08:25 EST X-Message-Number: 7 In a message dated 2/13/00 7:12:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, GARYKR2@cs.com writes: << The reason for passing this info on is due to some of the comments made about Ken Rand's plane going down. Lack of an IFR instruments and rating is most likely the cause, not the ice reported. >> Gary: I believe that the primary problem was a lack of Fuel, which caused him to have to descend into the bad weather. Bill Higdon Willard561@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: Greg S Martin Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:17:16 -0800 X-Message-Number: 8 On Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:08:25 EST Willard561@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 2/13/00 7:12:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, > GARYKR2@cs.com > writes: > > << The reason for passing this info on is due to some of the > comments made > about Ken Rand's plane going down. Lack of an IFR instruments and > rating is > most likely the cause, not the ice reported. >> > Gary: > I believe that the primary problem was a lack of Fuel, which caused > him to > have to descend into the bad weather. > Bill Higdon > Willard561@aol.com Bill Your correct. He did run out of fuel. Happy building and/or flying Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 1783 Glenwood Court Bakersfield, California 93306 work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR2-S unused plans needed From: "Florin L Pintea" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:12:44 -0800 X-Message-Number: 9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF76D4.093CFF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone has a complete set of unused KR2-S plans, I would be willing = to purchase them from you. You can e-mail me privately florinpi@home.com Florin ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF76D4.093CFF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If anyone has a complete set of unused = KR2-S plans,=20 I would be willing to purchase them from you.
 
You can e-mail me privately florinpi@home.com
 
Florin
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF76D4.093CFF40-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:37:37 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 Ms. Rand told me a long time ago what happened to Ken. He was flying back from S&F and he stoper in Vanhorn Texas to advust the carb and fill up with gas. He knew that Los Angles was socked in, but, he had a canin in the mountians with a landing strip that he had always been able to land, however this time it too was weatherd in. He ran our of gas 5 miles from home. Mr. Rand told me this story years ago when I visited her office in California. R. W. Moore ---------- > From: Greg S Martin > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR With Ice > Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 11:17 AM > > > > On Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:08:25 EST Willard561@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 2/13/00 7:12:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > GARYKR2@cs.com > > writes: > > > > << The reason for passing this info on is due to some of the > > comments made > > about Ken Rand's plane going down. Lack of an IFR instruments and > > rating is > > most likely the cause, not the ice reported. >> > > Gary: > > I believe that the primary problem was a lack of Fuel, which caused > > him to > > have to descend into the bad weather. > > Bill Higdon > > Willard561@aol.com > > Bill > > Your correct. He did run out of fuel. > > Happy building and/or flying > > Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com > 1783 Glenwood Court > Bakersfield, California 93306 > work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 > home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17710K@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr2 in zepherhills,fl. From: "Bob Vermeulen" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:48:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 ---------- > From: TONY SOLDANO > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] kr2 in zepherhills,fl. > Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 8:24 PM > > at my local eaa meeting one of the guys told me about a kr flying out of > zepherhills,fl. does anyone know if he is on the net or who he is? > > --- Tony, The gentleman you are looking for is Sam Sayer. He built a very nice (although heavy) KR-2. After the 40 hours were flown off of it, he decided to build a KR-2S. Since he didn't want to sell the KR-2 intact, he parted it out and is using some of the parts on the 2S. Sam is a real craftsman. He is in his 70s and is able to spend a lot of time on his project. Sam doesn't have a computer, so he does things the old fashioned way. He's a wizard with a slide rule and a drawing board. I wish I knew trig like ole Sam does. If you are near the Zephyrhills area look him up. He'll proudly show off his project I'm sure. I'll probably see Sam again during Sun 'n Fun, as I usually stay a couple of days with him and his wife. Looking forward to Sun 'n Fun, Video Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [Fwd: Prop bolts] From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:15:45 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------134C917A7FB05EDD2B01E346 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was able to look this up once but don't have it now. My builder logs etc are still in Oregon. Hopefully someone on the 'net can help. -- Ross --------------134C917A7FB05EDD2B01E346 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by relay1 (mbox rossy) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Feb 14 08:17:12 2000) X-From_: N2306S@aol.com Thu Feb 10 06:06:45 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: rossy@teleport.com Received: (qmail 5118 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 06:06:44 -0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.37) by smtp7.teleport.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 06:06:44 -0000 Received: from N2306S@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id 2.72.1780489 (4319) for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: N2306S@aol.com Message-ID: <72.1780489.25d3af57@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:06:15 EST Subject: Prop bolts To: rossy@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi, I've a simple question that I can't seen to find an answer to; what should I torque the prop bolts too? I would really appreciate any help you could offer. --------------134C917A7FB05EDD2B01E346-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Flight testing, is it really done? From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:18:01 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 Go to the http://www.krnet.org and click on Bookstore on the left. The flight testing book is available via Amazon.com, and your purchase supports KR-net! Michael Taglieri wrote: > >> How do you fly to 1.1 of the desired max speed, and generate 4 or so > >G's, if the canopy configuration and the close fit of the bird does't > >allow egress under strain ? >>>>> > > > > > >I think the best answer to that question is that a large percentage of > >eXperimental aircraft DO NOT get what one would call a full series of > >flight test. > > Check out Vaughan Askue's "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft" (Iowa State > U. Press ISBN 0-8138-1308-5) for good examples of how to do it and how > to fix the problems that come up. > > Mike Taglieri > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17523X@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: Donald Reid Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:22:43 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 At 12:37 PM 02/14/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Ms. Rand told me a long time ago what happened to Ken. He was flying back >from S&F and he stoper in Vanhorn Texas to advust the carb and fill up with >gas. He knew that Los Angles was socked in, but, he had a canin in the >mountians with a landing strip that he had always been able to land, >however this time it too was weatherd in. He ran our of gas 5 miles from >home. Mr. Rand told me this story years ago when I visited her office in >California. The following was reported in Sport Aviation: Ken Rand, designer of the popular KR-1 and KR-2, died in the crash of his prototype KR-2, N4KR, on Wednesday afternoon, January 31, 1979: Returning home to Huntington Beach, California from the Sun 'N Fun fly-in in Lakeland, Florida, Ken made his last refueling stop in Van Horn, Texas. A few hours later he arrived -- VFR -- at high altitude over the LA area with the worst storm in years raging below him. At 3:37 p.m. he radioed a distress call indicating his engine had quit and that he was descending into the clouds. At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last transmission was received: "I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!" All of the KR related articles from Sport Aviation are on my web site at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_SA.htm Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: prop bolt torque From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:54:49 -0600 X-Message-Number: 15 N2306S@aol.com wrote: Hi, I've a simple question that I can't seen to find an answer to; what should I torque the prop bolts too? I would really appreciate any help you could offer. ------------------- There is no simple answer. It depends on a lot of factors. Best advice is call the manufacturer for his recommendation. The number can vary by as much as a factor of three. If you don't know who the manufacturer is, maybe we can come up with something, but last time we debated this issue several key people left over the ensuing argument... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque Info From: Jerry Conners Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:45:56 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 16 The following link is an example of available manufacturer assistance regarding the determination of bolt torque values: http://www.sensenichprop.com/direct/document/usencare.htm ===== Jerry L. Conners, PE Civil Engineer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KNet Membership From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:12:18 -0700 X-Message-Number: 17 KRNet members, I've been wondering why the e-mail from the KRNet has been so heavy as of late, so while in the Lyris system doing some admin chores, I ran a member count. There are currently 576 members on board. Seems like quite a step from the 10 or 20 we had 4 years ago. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR With Ice From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:43:25 EST X-Message-Number: 18 Yes, I was aware of Ken running out of fuel. There was some discussion that ran with his mishap about ice and how KRs would handle. So that's how the reference to ice and IFR fits in. And I am NOT upset because a few people pointed out what appeared to be an error on my part. It shows that you folks do read what I say, thank you. And to Dana, ask me at the KR flyin and I will tell you what the #$%&* I was doing up in the soup. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KNet Membership From: Knitehwk@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:02:58 EST X-Message-Number: 19 Hey Jeff this is a good thing, is it not, just a bunch good'ole KRboys from across the fruited plains:) Glenn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KNet Membership/Info. From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:56:14 EST X-Message-Number: 20 In a message dated 2/14/00 8:25:53 PM, jscott.pilot@juno.com writes: <> To all new folks who may not be aware, there is a wealth of information at the various members' web sites who are nearing completion of their KRs. They can be accessed through the KRNet site. A few which I would highly recommend are Mark Langford's site, Mike Mimms site, Dr. Dean's site, and Don Reids site. Read about and see what they have done. Then check out all their links to various other sites. If you need to know something, or want to see how something is done, I would be willing to bet you'd find the info. and photos at any of their sites. Also, the KRNet site has a terrific area which features how-to info. on specific topics "scabbed" together and submitted by some of the more experienced builders. And to keep this whole shootin' match fun, have a gander at the KRNettiquete (sp) area. It hopefully will prevent the type of negativity which has caused us/KRNet to lose way too many really great folks who got fed-up with some of the slanderous personal attacks. Cause if it ain't fun anymore, it probably ain't worth doing. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX And when YOU send a message, let us all know who you are and where you are (see above). Kinda helps kindle that community spirit, ya know? --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com