From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: February 27, 2000 Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:03 AM KR-NET Digest2 for Sunday, February 27, 2000. 1. main gear stance 2. Re: aileron bell crank 3. Re: Help me buy one of these "Toys" 4. Re: main gear stance 5. Re: main gear stance 6. Re: Antenna Locations 7. Re: MAC servo wire? 8. Re: wingtanks (2 different questions) 9. Re: Vacuum 10. Re: T88 for the boat 11. Re: MAC servo wire? 12. Re: main gear stance 13. Re: wingtanks (2 different questions) 14. Welding question 15. Re: main gear stance 16. Re: Fuel Tanks 17. Re: main gear stance 18. Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet 19. Re: Fuel Tanks 20. Re: MAC servo wire? 21. KR2 CRASH IN SA 26/02/2000 22. Re: Fuel Tanks 23. Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet 24. Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet 25. Re: Fuel Tanks 26. Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet 27. Re: Fuel Tanks 28. Re: Fuel Tanks 29. Subaru Fuel Injection 30. 2000 Gathering 31. firewall materials 32. Re: Fuel Tanks 33. Welding question 34. Re: Fuel Tanks 35. E-mail and Web Site Addresses 36. Re: E-mail and Web Site Addresses ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: main gear stance From: "Richard Parker" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:59:53 PST X-Message-Number: 1 Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear and what criteria are you using to determine it before you bolt the fittings on? Richard Parker Peterborough, NH http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: aileron bell crank From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:20:07 EST X-Message-Number: 2 I would appreciate a copy of the drawing also. Bill Higdon WIllard561@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Help me buy one of these "Toys" From: larry flesner Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:45:26 -0600 X-Message-Number: 3 ><> ----------------------------------------->-- >I must be dense. I found two lists of builders. One with pictures and one >without. Neither listed the states. =========================================================== Go to Mike Mimm's home page and scroll down until you see the map with directions to "click here to find builders in your area". See if that works. Good luck. Larry Flesner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main gear stance From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graham=20Schott?= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 05:16:17 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 4 Hi Richard As close to the fuse as possible, just like Dan specifies. Take care with putting the bolts through the filreglass legs. I used Stainless plates. Clamp long straight length of angle iron to the axle fittings so you can measure toe in and camber, use flox. I have idler aileron pullys mountedon bolts that attach the leg to spar fitting. --- Richard Parker wrote: > Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear > and what criteria are ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > gands_schott@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-177744Q@telelists.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main gear stance From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:30:44 EST X-Message-Number: 5 In a message dated 2/27/00 6:00:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, richontheroad@hotmail.com writes: << Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear and what criteria are you using to determine it before you bolt the fittings on? >> I installed mine so the the tip of the axle would be the same width as the WAF. What criteria............WAG:-) I think the plans call for you the install them as inboard as you can. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Antenna Locations From: Tom Crawford Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:11:16 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 Bobby Muse wrote: > > At 03:02 PM 02/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > >On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:41:28 CET "Doug Peyton" > >writes: > >> Why do we not put all the antennas up on top of the rudder? > >> > >> Doug peyton > >> Tulsa. > >> > > > >Might be kind of tough setting up a good ground plane up there. :o) > > > >Many (like me) are using a foinl antenna under the glass in the leading > >edge of the vertical stab. > > > > > >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > > Jeff, The groundplane is not a problem if you build your own antenna using > Jim Weir's antenna building methods. I have one com antenna(vertical > stabilizer) and two nav antennas(one in each wing). The transponder > antenna is the one that came with the transponder(Terra). The second nav > antenna is just a backup for either the com or nav#1. I have tested the > com radio using the nav antenna and appeared to work just fine on the ground. > > Bobby Muse > N122B - Wimberley, TX > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > > Bobby's right- if you build a dipole like Weir's antenna, you dont need a ground plane. One half of the antenna acts as the groung plane. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MAC servo wire? From: Tom Crawford Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:14:04 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 Mark Langford wrote: > > KRNetHeads, > > Would anybody like to share how you ran the 5 conductor wire that controls > the MAC servo (and indicator) from the horizontal stab to the elevator? I > can't help but think that this thing is going to fatigue and break in a > fairly short time. I realize that using stranded cable is a step in the > right direction, but I don't see a route that's not going to flex it > excessively. About all I've been able to come up with it running it into > the elevator from the side and twisting it over a long distance rather than > bending it over a short distance. Any ideas? > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > Mark, I routed the wires thru the outer piece of Nyrod (the blue). Altho with years of flexing, it will crack. What you need is some sort of flexible tube that will not crack over time. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wingtanks (2 different questions) From: Donald Reid Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:32:17 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 --=====================_10176469==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed One set of questions couple of questions? do I need 2 gages if wing tanks are tied together with a "T"? Do you have to vent thru the bottom for air vent or can you simply drill hole in plastic fuel cap, poxie in a bent vent tube? The second set of questions I am considering fabricating tanks in the outboard wings as close to the inboard end as possible and between the main and aft spar. What ramifications will I experience by doing this? Will the weight of full tanks have any affect on the wing attach fittings? Any thoughts? The short answer on wing attachment fittings is that they are not adversely affected. There is a longer answer, but it really does not matter. The structural problems with wing tanks is to endure that the weight of the fuel does not rupture the wing skin. This is not a very high loading. I think that you should have some kind of level gauge in both tanks, this is a requirement for certified aircraft and it makes sense to me. I ran individual vent lines to each tank (2 wing and one header). They are arranged just like the vent line drawings in the Tony Bingelis books. The vent line openings are on the underside of the wing and fuselage. They face into the air stream to provide a ram pressurization. I ran the supply lines while the wing was under construction. Everything has flared fittings and I have a coupling at the stub/outer panel joint. Aluminum lines must have some type of flexible mounting. You don't want them to vibrate, but they also have to flex as the wing bends. Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_10176469==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" One set of questions
couple of questions? do I need 2 gages if wing tanks are tied together with
a "T"? Do you have to vent thru the bottom for air
vent or can you simply drill hole in plastic fuel cap, poxie in a bent vent
tube?

The second set of questions
 I am considering fabricating tanks in the outboard
wings as close to the inboard end as possible and between the main and
aft spar. What ramifications will I experience by doing this? Will the
weight of full tanks have any affect on the wing attach fittings? Any
thoughts?



The short answer on wing attachment fittings is that they are not adversely affected.  There is a longer answer, but it really does not matter.  The structural problems with wing tanks is to endure that the weight of the fuel does not rupture the wing skin.  This is not a very high loading.

I think that you should have some kind of level gauge in both tanks, this is a requirement for certified aircraft and it makes sense to me. 

I ran individual vent lines to each tank (2 wing and one header).  They are arranged just like the vent line drawings in the Tony Bingelis books.  The vent line openings are on the underside of the wing and fuselage.  They face into the air stream to provide a ram pressurization.

I ran the supply lines while the wing was under construction.  Everything has flared fittings and I have a coupling at the stub/outer panel joint. 

Aluminum lines must have some type of flexible mounting.  You don't want them to vibrate, but they also have to flex as the wing bends.

Don Reid
Bumpass, Va.   mailto:donreid@erols.com
  Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_10176469==_.ALT-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Vacuum From: "Dave Bogdan" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:11:07 GMT X-Message-Number: 9 On tuboprops and jets they use bleed air from the compressor sections on the engines to make vacuum. The bleed air is plumbed to a venturi. The vacuum created can be used to run gyros (typical apps I've seen are to hold the boots flat on Beech 1900D's). Has anyone thought of plumbing a line from an exhaust pipe to a venturi? In the 1900D the bleed air is cooled to 450 F by a radiator like cooler. The venturi provides a vacuum, so the vacuum system should remain uncontaminated. Dave Bogdan Milwaukee, Wis >From: Mike Mims >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Vacuum >Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:44:36 -0800 > >KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > > Now the big thing, is vacuum needed on a KR, NAH. If you want vacuum, >is > > there a way, YES..several. > > > > Dana Overall > >I say we add turbos and use bleed air, this way you just force regulated >air through the instruments like on your Bonanza! :o) On a more >serious note, the system you are talking about was installed on all of >our single engine aircraft at the air taxi. One day I had to test it >because I really wondered if it worked. Sure enough it worked just fine. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( >http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ >mirror @ >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: davebogdan@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-178242M@telelists.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T88 for the boat From: "Gaylon Fuller" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 8:33:42 X-Message-Number: 10 It was not a guess! He (personal friend) spliced 6' 5/8 x 5/8 to make the size of longeron needed. He used 6' peices because anything over that make goes up in price big time. Gaylon Fuller Kr Builder (board stretcher) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MAC servo wire? From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:34:27 EST X-Message-Number: 11 In a message dated 2/26/00 9:36:19 PM, KR2616TJ@aol.com writes: <> I ran mine much like Dana described, except when I re-built my h/s and elevator I floxed in a piece of vinyl tubing along the aft face of the elevator spar (sort of like mini conduit) and ended it inside the foam right where I intended to mount the MAC servo. This should help avoid the excessive bending on a short segment of wire which would be the case if the wires were routed through the elevator spar and the after h/s spar like Tom Crawford did (I think). Had I been smarter, I probably would have used the elevator hinges as my electrical "line" across the hinge gap. This would have required pre-wiring the hinges and more thought than I was capable of when assembling the h/s and elevator. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main gear stance From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:35:45 -0800 X-Message-Number: 12 Richard Parker wrote: > > Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear and what criteria are > you using to determine it before you bolt the fittings on? > Dan says to mount the brackets as close to the fuselage as you can. That puts the main wheel just inboard of the WAFs. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wingtanks (2 different questions) From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:42:15 -0800 X-Message-Number: 13 > > One set of questions > couple of questions? do I need 2 gages if wing tanks are tied together with a "T"? Do you have to vent thru the bottom for air vent or can you simply drill hole in plastic fuel cap, poxie in a bent vent tube? > I built my aux tanks in the inboard section of the wings (in the stubs) and they are just what I called them "aux" tanks. Which means they do not feed the engine they only transfer fuel to the main tank. When you flip the switch the fuel is transferred from both tanks at the same time into the header tank. Considering all this my thinking was one gauge would be enough, the FAA inspector said "No you need a gauge of some kind in each and every tank". Your results many vary. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Welding question From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:47:33 EST X-Message-Number: 14 Hi y'all I am in process of having a mounting bracket made fo the landing gear legs. I plan to clamp everything together and take it to a welder. My question is: How much space is needed between to pieces that are to be welded together? Or if any at all. last week there was a discussion on Al. If some one needs more info. they can go to www.mcmaster.com and do a search fo AL01 (I tried last night from but my browser did not work too well). While we are on the subject. Does any one know a good source of cheap titanium sheets or tubes. If we replace all steel with titanuum on the KR we can probaby save another 15-20 lbs (However the the plane will only cost one fourth, instead of one eight, as much as Lancair:-). There has to be some place that is buying scrap subs from the Russians, breaking them, and selling the metal cheap. Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main gear stance From: JEHayward@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:01:38 EST X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 02/27/00 4:00:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, richontheroad@hotmail.com writes: << Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear and what criteria are you using to determine it before you bolt the fittings on? >> I took a cue from Troy Petteway's installation and placed them as far out from the fuselage as I could which placed them about 1/2" from the end of the WAF's. Placing them as far apart as practical gave Troy much better ground handling characteristics. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: Bobby Muse Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:23:06 -0600 X-Message-Number: 16 At 06:36 PM 02/26/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Mark Jones wrote: >> > Any> thoughts? >> -- >> Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > >Put the header tank back on. > >Micheal Mims You know, that Micheal Mims fellow is a pretty smart guy. I agree. Bobby Muse N122B - Wimberley, TX mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: main gear stance From: Bobby Muse Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:02:35 -0600 X-Message-Number: 17 At 12:01 PM 02/27/2000 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 02/27/00 4:00:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, >richontheroad@hotmail.com writes: > ><< Hw wide are you guys placing your deihl landing gear and what criteria are > you using to determine it before you bolt the fittings on? >> > > I took a cue from Troy Petteway's installation and placed them as > far out from the fuselage as I could which placed them about 1/2" > from the end of the WAF's. Placing them as far apart as practical > gave Troy much better ground handling characteristics. > > Jim Hayward > Please, place Deihl's landing gear Attach Brackets per Dan Deihl plans. That is: as close to the fuselage as possible and center vertically so to pickup the spar caps with the attaching bolts. This will give you about a 72" wheelbase width which is more than 12" wider than the original retract gear. Also, the KR is higher off the ground. I fly a trigear KR and it handles great. From what feelback that I get, from those that have witched from the retract taildragger to the fixed Deihl taildragger, is that the handling characteristics improved a lot. By the way... Troy Petteway's gear is not Deihl's gear. Troy built the gear himself. It is shorter and wider in an effort to attempt to go faster, not for better handling. Troy's KR handles just fine but I believe Troy has always had his gear as it is, I don't believe he ever moved it outwards from when it was initially built. Please correct me if I am wrong. Bobby Muse N122B - Wimberley, TX mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet From: Greg S Martin Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:11:47 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:33:32 -0800 Mike Mims writes: > Mark Langford wrote: > > > The SS isn't really even necessary with Fiberfrax from a > "fireproofing" > standpoint, but the stainless IS required in order to providea > measure > of abrasion resistance for the Fiberfrax. > > > > > I seriously considered going with aluminum sheet over the fiberfax. > I > went with the SS but I see no reason why you could not use aluminum > sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I > used > the .016. :o) About 4 years ago, a fellow on the field had a fire in the engine cowling and was about 5000 AGL and about 6 miles from the airport. His fire wall was aluminum with fiberfrax under. The plane was a Glassaire TD. After landing on the field, and inspection reveled that the aluminum had melted and fiberfrax was blowing out where the aluminum had melted. He had a header tank at that time. The fire wall has been rebuilt with SS and the tanks are now in the wings. Now don't think that I advocate wing tanks only because I don't. But I do prefer them and SS fire walls. Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 1783 Glenwood Court Bakersfield, California 93306 work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:26:43 -0800 X-Message-Number: 19 Bobby Muse wrote: > > > > >Put the header tank back on. > > > >Micheal Mims > > You know, that Micheal Mims fellow is a pretty smart guy. I agree. > Well nothing feeds fuel to a carb like gravity! Its free and its weightless! Not only that (and I am sure Bobby will back me on this) the CG doesn't shift as much as one would think. Sure it does shift but keep in mind the center of mass for the header tank is only a few inches in front of the CG. I would much rather have a fuel pump that will never fail (and weighs nothing) and a CG that shifts just a little than to worry about heavy wings and or a electrical system that if failed so would the engine. Now if you can figure out how to install a mechanical fuel pump backed by a facet pump I would say go for the wing tanks. I once saw a KR with wing tanks that required 12v to work. This same KR had dual mags. Is it me or is that odd? I have never been a fan of wing tank only systems in a KR and now that we lost a KR at my home airport (pilot survived thank god) I really see no use for them what so ever. I am sure someone will pipe up and say "Hey Piper builds planes with wing tanks" well my friend you are not building a Piper nor do you have the resources that Piper has to ensure its a good system. The biggest argument for wing tanks is the feared crash and fire scenario. I agree this is scary and we should build our planes with survivability in mind but the number one priority should be to try and avoid the crash in the first place. Sometimes we homebuilders tend to make an accident more likely to happen by building the airplane safer. KISS, KISS, KISS. Off Soap Box now, have fun. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MAC servo wire? From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:46:20 -0500 X-Message-Number: 20 The wire will flex as lot more than you might think. Just avoid crimping into a terminal and creating a stress riser at that point. Many race car guys use silicone sealant to tiedown wires and lines (plumbing) to prevent shaking and resonace issues. It's strong, permanent, and easy to remove. A judicious loop pressed back into the fuselage is a good idea too. Ron Freiberger...In Sunny Fort Myers mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: bounce-kr-net-175892@telelists.com [mailto:bounce-kr-net-175892@telelists.com]On Behalf Of Tom Crawford Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 9:14 AM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: MAC servo wire? Mark Langford wrote: > > KRNetHeads, > > Would anybody like to share how you ran the 5 conductor wire that controls > the MAC servo (and indicator) from the horizontal stab to the elevator? I > can't help but think that this thing is going to fatigue and break in a > fairly short time. I realize that using stranded cable is a step in the > right direction, but I don't see a route that's not going to flex it > excessively. About all I've been able to come up with it running it into > the elevator from the side and twisting it over a long distance rather than > bending it over a short distance. Any ideas? > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > Mark, I routed the wires thru the outer piece of Nyrod (the blue). Altho with years of flexing, it will crack. What you need is some sort of flexible tube that will not crack over time. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ron.martha@mindspring.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-175892C@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR2 CRASH IN SA 26/02/2000 From: "andrea serra" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:11:54 PST X-Message-Number: 21 With a ton of sadness behind the issue I have to say that ZS-WDW crashed at Swartkops AFB, SA on the 26th of February 2000 at 1230 UTC. No-one was hurt in the crash but I'm afraid that that will be the end of the aircraft. Four months ago, the aircraft which had already logged 275 hours of no problem accident free time, had to land at Swartkops AFB while on route from Krugersdorp to Wonderboom in Pretoria after finally completing its annual inspection due to a loss of power from the Rajay turbo unit while in flight. It was later found that the turbo impeller was problematic. The turbo was over-hauled by a professional company and the work done by an approved AMO. The aircraft was then tested for about 1 and 1/2 hours and everything was perfect. Pre-flight power checks, etc...revealed no problem and good smooth running. The aircraft accelerated well on take-off, gained good height and then progressively lost power once clear of the upwind threshold. It started losing height and had to be put down in the clearway in order to avoid the airbase's security wall. The crash sheared the undercarriage off, which was bolted to the main spar. The prop hit the ground, breaking while the engine was still running, the canopy shattered, the cowling was damaged, the whole under-section was damaged and worst, the undercarriage exited the area through the wings with basically the whole inboard section of the port wings being disintegrated. I will send pictures and the details of the investigation, etc as soon as finalized so that you can all get some good out of it. Of-course I am pissed-off to the maximum but at least no-one was hurt. I have a question to ask of builders: for the insurance could you let me have your opinion regards the re-building of a composite aircraft which has suffered such damage? The main spar within the boat section is hurt and I cannot tell if there is any other internal damage. My address is tzavu@hotmail.com Thanks guys. If anyone is interested I will most probably be selling all the spares, the engine: Veringa VW 2,1 turbo, the wings which can be attached to another plane as they are still good, instrumentation, etc, etc, etc... Regards to all who are lucky enough to continue flying in these beautiful little planes. Andrea Serra, Pretoria, South Africa. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:12:39 -0600 X-Message-Number: 22 Mike Mims wrote: > Not only that (and I am sure Bobby will back me on this) > the CG doesn't shift as much as one would think. Sure it does shift but > keep in mind the center of mass for the header tank is only a few inches > in front of the CG. I'd have to argue the point about gravity feed being reliable. With the small amount of head available in a plane the size of a KR, you don't get much pressure at the carb, and the pressure changes radically with changes in aircraft attitude, most notably, it gets a lot lower when climbing, which is when you need it most. Mechanical fuel pumps don't just instantly croak, as a rule. They usually warn you for months, displaying reduced power at full thottle, but having little effect at lower flow rates. Every Corvair has a mechanical pump hanging of the back. And when Facets fail, they still allow fuel to flow through, rather than blocking the flow. Having a fuel pump now gives one the flexibility to choose from a wider variety of carbs, as well as the option of mounting the carb on top of the engine for improved fuel mixture distribution. As for CG shift, I've built both a header tank and wing tanks. A quick look at the CAD file shows that (assuming we use the 5" center of the 4"-6" aft-of-front-face CG range that most of us advocate) the center of mass for a header tank is about 21 inches away. For my wing tanks, it's 6". I wouldn't call a factor of 3.5 insignificant, when we're talking about CG shift for 120 pounds of fuel during flight. And I'd much rather land with the plane at maximum stability (for a given flight), rather than maximum INstability (CG as far aft as it's going to get during that flight). We've had this discussion before, and we'll no doubt have it again. I guess it all boils down to personal preference, and where you want to place your bets. I'm quite happy with my system, and I'm sure you're quite happy with yours... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet From: cartera Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:22:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 23 Greg S Martin wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:33:32 -0800 Mike Mims writes: > > Mark Langford wrote: > > > > > The SS isn't really even necessary with Fiberfrax from a > > "fireproofing" > > standpoint, but the stainless IS required in order to providea > > measure > > of abrasion resistance for the Fiberfrax. > > > > > > > > > I seriously considered going with aluminum sheet over the fiberfax. > > I > > went with the SS but I see no reason why you could not use aluminum > > sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I > > used > > the .016. :o) > > About 4 years ago, a fellow on the field had a fire in the engine cowling > and was about 5000 AGL and about 6 miles from the airport. His fire wall > was aluminum with fiberfrax under. The plane was a Glassaire TD. After > landing on the field, and inspection reveled that the aluminum had melted > and fiberfrax was blowing out where the aluminum had melted. He had a > header tank at that time. > > The fire wall has been rebuilt with SS and the tanks are now in the > wings. > > Now don't think that I advocate wing tanks only because I don't. But I > do prefer them and SS fire walls. > Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com > 1783 Glenwood Court > Bakersfield, California 93306 > work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 > home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17454M@telelists.com Hi Gang, An excellent example of why not to change these things. Fiberfrax and SS give the safe combination for the firewall. That's why it is suggested in the first place. That question of SS also crossed my mind when I was building and after quite a few consultations with A&P's up here, all said stay with the SS and I am glad I did. Alum melts very easily. Good luck to all the guys who changed to alum. All you fellows with all that fuel onboard, don't forget your little-johns. Happy Building and Flying!! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:28:34 -0600 X-Message-Number: 24 Adrian Carter wrote: > Greg S Martin wrote: > > > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:33:32 -0800 Mike Mims writes: > > > Mark Langford wrote: > > > > > > > The SS isn't really even necessary with Fiberfrax from a > > > "fireproofing" > > > standpoint, but the stainless IS required in order to providea > > > measure > > > of abrasion resistance for the Fiberfrax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I seriously considered going with aluminum sheet over the fiberfax. > > > I > > > went with the SS but I see no reason why you could not use aluminum > > > sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I > > > used > > > the .016. :o) > > The way this was cut and pasted makes it look like I'm the one that said " I see no reason why you could not use aluminum sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I used the .016. :o)", when actually that's a Mims quote. I'm the one that said "you need SS for Fiberfrax protection against abrasion". Just trying to keep the record straight... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:07:12 -0800 X-Message-Number: 25 Mark Langford wrote: > >A quick look at the CAD file shows that (assuming we use the 5" center of the 4"-6" > aft-of-front-face CG range that most of us advocate) the center of mass for > a header tank is about 21 inches away. For my wing tanks, it's 6". Mine is just over 14 inches. The aft face of my fuel tank is only about 6 inches in front of the main spar. Agreed 21 inches would cause more concern than 14. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Firewall sheet From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:20:42 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 26 --- Mark Langford wrote: > > > > I seriously considered going with aluminum > sheet over the fiberfax.I went with the SS but I see no reason why you could not use aluminum sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I used the .016. :o) > > > > > The way this was cut and pasted makes it look like > I'm the one that said " I see no reason why you could not use aluminum sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that RR sells, I used the .016. :o)", when actually that's a Mims quote. I'm the one that said > "you need SS for Fiberfrax protection against abrasion". Just trying to keep the record straight... > No way man! It looks like you said it so you must have! :o) OK guys use SS not aluminum. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:21:22 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 27 --- Mike Mims wrote: > Mine is just over 14 inches. The aft face of my fuel > tank is only about 6 inches in front of the main spar. Agreed 21 inches would cause more concern than 14. > Oh yeah I forgot to add that adding 100 pounds to my header tank moves the CG about 1 inch. This is with 400 pounds in the seats. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:38:55 -0600 X-Message-Number: 28 Mike wrote: > Mine is just over 14 inches. The aft face of my fuel tank is only about > 6 inches in front of the main spar. Agreed 21 inches would cause more > concern than 14. Well, the "amended" CG range would be 8-14" aft of the leading edge (I dusted off the manual and actually checked), and I was measuring MY plane, so the rear edge of the range would be 3.5" from the front of the main spar rather than 5", so I was off a little too, but there is a large potential for lots of fuel up front, as is shown by my header tank at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kft.html . I could have easily put 25 gallons up there, had I known how small and exactly where my radio and transponder were going when I built that header tank. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Subaru Fuel Injection From: "ldeckert" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:54:51 -0700 X-Message-Number: 29 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF813A.FB870780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks Is anyone using Fuel Injection with an EA-81?=20 My engine is a 1984 fuel injected, turbo. I've been told that making the = fuel injection work is a problem. If it is a problem, can I somehow plug = the injector holes in the heads? Thanks Larry Deckert ldeckert@gateway.net ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF813A.FB870780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi folks
 
Is anyone using Fuel Injection with an = EA-81?=20
 
My engine is a 1984 fuel injected, = turbo. I've been=20 told that making the fuel injection work is a problem. If it is a = problem, can I=20 somehow plug the injector holes in the heads?
 
Thanks
 
Larry Deckert
ldeckert@gateway.net
 
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF813A.FB870780-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 2000 Gathering From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:44:42 EST X-Message-Number: 30 OK, gang some dates to remember. The 2000 Gathering at Lake Barkley State Resort Park in western Kentucky will be held on Friday Sept. 22 thru Sunday Sept. 24th. The phone number for the lodge is 1-800-325-1708. All rooms not taken by July 23rd. will be released to the public. There is already a public waiting list. With the banquet being held right at the lodge, no driving will be required. That way you don't have to watch out for all the deer wondering around...........ask someone who was there last year about the deer. In addition to the rooms, I have also reserved a couple of cottages and they have one log cabin left. I stayed in a cottage last year. Get a couple of guys and share one, you'll have a big time. My log cabin is already filled up for this year. I know that several of the rooms have lofted ceiling overlooking the lake. For those of you who did not make it last year, if you don't want to drive you can eat, sleep, tell lies at the airport without ever needing a car. The lodge has a great lofted ceiling dining area that serves a great breakfast, lunch and dinner. It overlooks Lake Barkley. We will be serving dinner Friday night and lunch Saturday afternoon at the airport. I'm getting the same people to cater it. Be sure and bring your family and lots of film. What kind of forums do you want.............time to start lining people up now? You talking KISS, check this $27,000 baby out:-), OH, darn it runs on 24volts....... http://www.smithsind-aerospace.com/isis/intro1.html Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: firewall materials From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:21:17 PST X-Message-Number: 31 Mike wrote: >I seriously considered going with aluminum sheet over the fiberfax. I went >with the SS but I see no reason why you could not use >aluminum sheet. And no I did not go with the SS tinfoil that >RR sells, I used the .016. :o) The prototype M-19 uses .020" 2024-T3 aluminum over a 3/4" marine plywood firewall, cemented in place using a whole tube of high-temp silicone RTV. It got past the FAA that way. I shied away from that, based on Bingelis' recommendations, and used Fiberfrax between the aluminum and the plywood, and no RTV. Had I thought about it earlier, I might have even gone with galvanized sheet metal instead of the fiberfrax and aluminum (I'm cheap). Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: KRkip@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:05:18 EST X-Message-Number: 32 Hi Mark I have tanks in both of my wings in the outboard panels that hold 15 gals each although i have never flown with more than 10 gals in each. there has been no problems with this setup for me in over 500hrs. I use a facet pump to transfer the fuel to my header tank (12gal) as needed.I have found that if you have any fuel left in the wings when you land you should pump as much as possible to the header to help the cg. Having wing tanks really helps on a long cross country and that is the only time that i use my wing tanks. Kip Lounsbury Lincoln Maine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Welding question From: William Zorc <73101.157@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:16:06 -0500 X-Message-Number: 33 Welding clearances: If you have your parts clamped together, your welder should be able to "tack" weld the parts together, and then remove the clamps, and finish the welding. Little or no clearance is required to tack the parts together. A good welder should be able to determine where to start the welds to get minimum distortion. Years ago when I worked at Piper Aircraft, as a certified welder, almost all parts were straghtned after welding (seats, throttle brackets, engine mounts, etc.) Good Luck, Bill Zorc Vero Beach, FL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:01:18 -0600 X-Message-Number: 34 I have my wing tanks installed in the outer wing sections, 9 Gal/tank, I also have a 7 Gal header fuel cell tank with a float switch which will control two fuel pumps[ one for each wing tank]. I use a adjustable time delay "ON" automatic alternating relay to control the pumps with manual override switches. The header tank is always within a gallon of being full. If you are interested, see the details at www.jrl-engineering.com . As the fuel is exhausted from the wing tanks the KR C.G. will shift forward slightly. KRRon -----Original Message----- From: Mark Jones To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, February 26, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: [kr-net] Fuel Tanks >Calling all wing tank experts!!! At present, I have a removable header >tank installed in my 2S. I keep leaning toward wing tanks. Mainly for CG >reasons. I know if one goes with wing tanks he does not have to deal >with the CG change as you would in a header tank as the fuel burns off. >Here is my situation. I can not install the tanks in the wing stubs >without major modifications again. I have Diehl tri gear and control >cables in the way. I am considering fabricating tanks in the outboard >wings as close to the inboard end as possible and between the main and >aft spar. What ramifications will I experience by doing this? Will the >weight of full tanks have any affect on the wing attach fittings? Any >thoughts? >-- >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Waukesha, WI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: E-mail and Web Site Addresses From: Ejrem65@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:31:44 EST X-Message-Number: 35 Since changing from ATT Worldnet to AOL, I am unable to access the links you guys put in your posts. With ATT they came through in blue and were accessible by just clicking them on. Now, with AOL everything comes through in black and white, I have to copy the info, then type the addresses in the address window. I'm sorry to post this but I've E-mailed AOL once and called them twice but no one can help. I don't really need this frustration - I haven't recovered from making gussets yet! All help appreciated, off-line preferably, unless others are experiencing this also. Thanks. Bob Maniss Abilene, Texas ejrem65@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: E-mail and Web Site Addresses From: "T.Flemming" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 23:03:27 -0600 X-Message-Number: 36 Bob, Sorry to tell you this but my wife works for AOL and says that the links coming from outside of AOL such as with this group don't work. You are stuck with coping and pasting. The only other suggestion is getting a Hotmail or Yahoo email account. Also please notice my ISP isn't AOL. :) (even though i could get a reduced rate) Trent Flemming Longview, TX www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/9098 >Since changing from ATT Worldnet to AOL, I am unable to access the links you >guys put in your posts. With ATT they came through in blue and were >accessible by just clicking them on. Now, with AOL everything comes through >in black and white, I have to copy the info, then type the addresses in the >address window. I'm sorry to post this but I've E-mailed AOL once and called >them twice but no one can help. I don't really need this frustration - I >haven't recovered from making gussets yet! All help appreciated, off-line >preferably, unless others are experiencing this also. Thanks. >Bob Maniss Abilene, Texas ejrem65@aol.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tflemming@texramp.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17608S@telelists.com > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com