From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Apr 2000 16:08:54 -0000 Issue 13 Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:09 AM krnet Digest 19 Apr 2000 16:08:54 -0000 Issue 13 Topics (messages 222 through 239): About ezmlm warning. 222 by: Stefan den Boer firewall clamping 223 by: Richard Parker 224 by: Horn2004.aol.com 226 by: PhilKR2S.aol.com SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS 225 by: mdlougheed.juno.com 227 by: ACMan5548.aol.com 228 by: Mike Mims 230 by: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) 232 by: Donald Reid 233 by: Jeff LeTempt 235 by: Stefan B. 236 by: Edwin Blocher 237 by: Mark Langford mew website 229 by: ROBERT COOPER Personal website 231 by: Jerry Picou kr-2s for sale 234 by: Greg S Martin Sub4 238 by: Robert Moore new website 239 by: ROBERT COOPER Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:09:03 +0200 To: From: "Stefan den Boer" Subject: About ezmlm warning. Message-ID: <09c823702151140NET013S@hetnet.nl> Hai guys i just receved a warning. I dont know this is a joke or is it serius. If I understand it well or read it oke`, than is there a problem with my server. The warning told me that my server bounced (I think if i tranclate) he woulndt receve the mail. But I got every day about 10 tips or storys from the net so I think there is no problem. If I understand it wrong maybe somebody of you can tell me in normal words whats wrong. I hope we can fix the problem without making the new server angry. Thank Stef den boer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:55:58 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: firewall clamping Message-ID: <20000417175558.99311.qmail@hotmail.com> How did you guys clamp your firewall on? Rich Parker NH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:44:57 EDT To: richontheroad@hotmail.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> firewall clamping Message-ID: <22.4932e0f.262cb5a9@aol.com> In a message dated 4/17/00 12:56:51 PM, richontheroad@hotmail.com writes: <> Quite a few people that I've talked to used drywall screws to temporarily fasten it while the epoxy cured. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:37:03 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: PhilKR2S@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> firewall clamping Message-ID: <94.325ef2b.262cc1df@aol.com> In a message dated Mon, 17 Apr 2000 1:56:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard Parker" writes: > How did you guys clamp your firewall on? > I just put wood screws every 6 inches until the glue set, then removed them and filled the holes with filler. It will be covered with insulation and metal and the holes will not matter. Phil Payne 99 % N39PP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:33:30 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: mdlougheed@juno.com Subject: SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <20000417.123331.-507287.0.mdlougheed@juno.com> Kevin, You are ABSOLUTELY correct in needing to account for the "extra height & length" if you want the fuselage to turn out "true" to the plan dimensions. Since the fuselage is wider at the top and narrower at the bottom in section view - the vertical members form the hypotenuse of a triangle. You see the "foreshortened" view of this hypotenuse in profile as the given dimension. Everyone should know that the hypotenuse is LONGER than the sum of its right triangle sides (plan & profile dimensions). The longerons are also curved in plan view. Therefore they are longer when laid out flat for construction. You may already know the process used to transform the final curved shape into a flat panel for construction is called "development". It's similar to the way sheet metal is laid out when making ventilation ducts as covered in most advanced drafting texts. This process DOES NOT change the finished dimensions of the fuselage. Many builders have complained about the top longerons bowing away from the building table when the fuselage is formed into it's finished shape. This is because the top longeron was kept straight when building the flat panel - when it's the FINISHED SHAPE you should be concerned with. In order to have a flat (finished in profile) top longeron, it must be built (flat panel) with a bit of curve to it - the amount of curve being determined (in part) by the hypotenuse length of the vertical members at each station. The good news is that all this is already worked out for you. The process is outlined in an article I did for KR-Online issue #1. You can surf to it from many KR web pages including www.krnet.org I'm sure Tracy O'Brien will concur with me as a fellow boat builder & designer - Any comments Tracy??? Mark D. Lougheed mdlougheed@juno.com >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:58:34 GMT >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >From: "kevin old" >Subject: SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS >Message-ID: <20000415035834.23548.qmail@hotmail.com> > >WHEN BUILDING KR2S SIDE FUSELAGE AS PER PLAN DIMENSIONS IN RR PLANS DO YOU >USE THE STATED DIMENSIONS OR DO YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR EXTRA HEIGHT AND >LENGTH AS THE DRAWING IS A PROFILE DRAWING. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:45:26 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org (krnet user group) From: ACMan5548@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <4.2a043b3.262cee06@aol.com> I am a new builder. I have my spruce kit on order and have been studying the plans. It strikes me that building the sides flat and then bending to shape puts undue preloaded stress on the fuselage. (Forces trying to pull its self apart.) Why would you build the sides to shape using a jig in the shape the fuselage needs to be? Tony ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:06:06 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet user group From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <20000417230606.2421.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> --- ACMan5548@aol.com wrote: Why would you build the sides to shape using > a jig in the shape the > fuselage needs to be? > > Tony > Building it flat and bending it to the shape needed is the easiest way to go about building a fuselage. That’s why the plans say to do it this way. The built in stress is not really a factor but if you want a completely stress free fuselage as well as one that is not shaped like a banana then you have the option to build it that way. It will just take more time (building the sides on a jig) and allows for more errors to occur. My fuselage was built per plans except that I applied the fuselage skin after framing it up (was worried about stress). If I were to do it again I would do it EXACTLY like the plans say to do it. That is I would skin the sides while they were still on the table. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:03:58 +0200 To: "'ACMan5548@aol.com'" , krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Subject: RE: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <042104686D63D311B51A0000C110B8E4449A84@sasltd06.sasol.com> Tony The wood will eventually settle in this shape anyway. Danny Livingstone E-mail: livd0124@natref.com -----Original Message----- From: ACMan5548@aol.com [SMTP:ACMan5548@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 12:45 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS I am a new builder. I have my spruce kit on order and have been studying the plans. It strikes me that building the sides flat and then bending to shape puts undue preloaded stress on the fuselage. (Forces trying to pull its self apart.) Why would you build the sides to shape using a jig in the shape the fuselage needs to be? Tony --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:07:52 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org (krnet user group) From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000418080509.009543a0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_2329563==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:45 PM 4/17/00 -0400, ACMan5548@aol.com wrote: >I am a new builder. I have my spruce kit on order and have been studying the >plans. It strikes me that building the sides flat and then bending to shape >puts undue preloaded stress on the fuselage. (Forces trying to pull its self >apart.) Why would you build the sides to shape using a jig in the shape the >fuselage needs to be? You will build in a small amount of stress, but it is very minor. It is MUCH easier to build it flat and then bend. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm USUA Club 250 at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_2329563==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:10:51 -0500 To: "krnet user group" From: "Jeff LeTempt" Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <002401bfa93f$e8322f20$0da3fe3f@default> After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. That should eliminate the banana boat, but the stress will still be there if the plywood is installed prior to bending the sides into shape. Comments? Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Mims To: krnet user group Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 6:06 PM Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS --- ACMan5548@aol.com wrote: Why would you build the sides to shape using > a jig in the shape the > fuselage needs to be? > > Tony > Building it flat and bending it to the shape needed is the easiest way to go about building a fuselage. That's why the plans say to do it this way. The built in stress is not really a factor but if you want a completely stress free fuselage as well as one that is not shaped like a banana then you have the option to build it that way. It will just take more time (building the sides on a jig) and allows for more errors to occur. My fuselage was built per plans except that I applied the fuselage skin after framing it up (was worried about stress). If I were to do it again I would do it EXACTLY like the plans say to do it. That is I would skin the sides while they were still on the table. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:01:34 +0200 To: Jeff LeTempt , krnet user group From: "Stefan B." Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <38FC78CD.7C02813F@wanadoo.fr> Jeff LeTempt wrote: > After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so > they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. That should > eliminate the banana boat, but the stress will still be there if the plywood > is installed prior to bending the sides into shape. > > Comments? > I built my "boat" with the widest point at the wing trailing edge. Thus the flow would not separate over the wing area at the junction with the fuselage and it would improve the drag performance. Stefan Balatchev, Paris, France mailto:Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:33:44 -0500 To: "Jeff LeTempt" , "krnet user group" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <004101bfa953$dfff6660$6794aec7@preinstalledcom> I widened my fuselage 3+ inches and made the sides straight (square with the top) and then skinned it. It worked good for me and doesn't look half bad. I'm working on a site now and will have pictures of it shortly. Ed Ed Blocher Moody, AL mailto: kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff LeTempt To: krnet user group Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 9:10 AM Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS > After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so > they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. That should > eliminate the banana boat, but the stress will still be there if the plywood > is installed prior to bending the sides into shape. > > Comments? > > Jeff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Mims > To: krnet user group > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS > > > > > --- ACMan5548@aol.com wrote: > Why would you build the sides to shape using > > a jig in the shape the > > fuselage needs to be? > > > > Tony > > > > Building it flat and bending it to the shape needed is > the easiest way to go about building a fuselage. > That's why the plans say to do it this way. The built > in stress is not really a factor but if you want a > completely stress free fuselage as well as one that is > not shaped like a banana then you have the option to > build it that way. It will just take more time > (building the sides on a jig) and allows for more > errors to occur. My fuselage was built per plans > except that I applied the fuselage skin after framing > it up (was worried about stress). If I were to do it > again I would do it EXACTLY like the plans say to do > it. That is I would skin the sides while they were > still on the table. > > > ===== > ........| > .......-^- > ....-/_____\- > ...(O\__o__/O) > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > -----Y2K Bug--- > Yes I drive one! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:20:03 -0500 To: "krnet user group" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <003701bfa98c$a01e0220$a5f780ce@300emachine> Jeff wrote: > After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so > they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. Sorry, but what I meant was if you make the sides square, as in sqaure cross section, or VERTICAL, you can avoid the banana boat thing. I ALSO think it's important to make the widest part of the fuselage back near your shoulders. The closer you are to the trailing edge when you taper back towards the tail, the better, as far as drag reduction is concerned. Otherwise you end up with something shaped like a quarter of a venturi, which increases drag at the wing/fuselage junction. I've been saying that for 5 years now on my "KR Opinions page" at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kopinion.html . Sorry for the misunderstanding... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:53:47 -0400 To: From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: KR > mew website Message-ID: <001401bfa8e1$52449ec0$775e163f@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFA8BF.CA04DF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KR netters I have just started a new website. Not much on it yet but its a start. I = will be updating as I make progress on my = bird.http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Jack Cooper Fayetteville NC. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFA8BF.CA04DF00-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:56:48 -0700 To: KRNET From: Jerry Picou Subject: Personal website Message-ID: <38FC77B0.243BD7B7@cybrtown.com> --------------17C8290CA3923FA67675FA0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone on the net. I have just started a personal website at www.geocities.com/jjpicou/ . To keep those interested , informed of my progress in assembling my KR2s Not a whole lot there just yet, Just thought I'd let everyone know about it. I'll start posting pictures as soon as I can to keep everyone updated One side of the fuselage frame is just about complete. Thanks Jerry Picou in Ohio --------------17C8290CA3923FA67675FA0E-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:28:52 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Greg S Martin Subject: kr-2s for sale Message-ID: <20000418.072921.-580715.0.idrawtobuild@juno.com> 'e' me direct for info on my kr-2s that I'm selling. Way to bussy making improvements on the KR-1 and work. Lots of stuff and motor. Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 1783 Glenwood Court Bakersfield, California 93306 work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:17:28 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Robert Moore" Subject: Sub4 Message-ID: <20000419061728.24997.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi, Did anyone see the Sub4 booth? I just found there web site www.sub4.co.nz/ and it looks like they have some very cool heads and other products for a E-81. I just wanted to know what the stuff looked like up close. Thanks Robert Moore ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:08:11 -0400 To: From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: KR>new website Message-ID: <001001bfaa19$76c6af20$84ba143f@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFA9F7.EE7F4E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to those of you who responded to my new website. Yes I was at = Lake Barkley last year and I already have reservations for 200 = gathering. Yes, I think I got a very good deal on the airplane. My = daughter in law set up the site for me and is trying to teach me how to = update the site. I'm always ready to talk airplanes so if you are = passing through Fayetteville NC. stop in and look, touch, feel, (the = airplane) talk. Jack Cooper kr2cooper@msn.com Fayetteville NC. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFA9F7.EE7F4E40-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************