From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 2 Aug 2000 01:31:08 -0000 Issue 67 Date: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 5:31 PM krnet Digest 2 Aug 2000 01:31:08 -0000 Issue 67 Topics (messages 1455 through 1484): Re: Pitch sensitivity 1455 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 1457 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 1458 by: Frank Ross 1460 by: Seifert, Richard E 1461 by: AviationMech.aol.com 1473 by: macwood Re: Retract locks. 1456 by: kr2cooper 1470 by: Ross Youngblood 1478 by: Steven Vitrella E-Mail Address 1459 by: Robert Stone Oshkosh pictures 1462 by: Mark Langford 1465 by: Mark Jones 1472 by: Leonardo 1476 by: Cary Honeywell ASI calibration 1463 by: Oscar Zuniga 1480 by: AviationMech.aol.com Weight 1464 by: Al Friesen 1466 by: Mark Jones ? 1467 by: Al Friesen Re: OSH web cam and ATC audio feed. 1468 by: Ted Fields Re: Polimeric materials for KR 1469 by: Ross Youngblood N541RY Progress 1471 by: Ross Youngblood Mike Whittaker 1474 by: macwood flying into Oshkosh 1475 by: Oscar Zuniga 1477 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com Re: Ceramic exhaust coating 1479 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout upper Vstab hinge 1481 by: Bob Smith 1482 by: Mark Jones 1484 by: Donald Reid Flaps 1483 by: DClarke351.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:17:17 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Pitch sensitivity Message-ID: <36.963ad64.26b71cad@aol.com> In a message dated 7/31/00 11:24:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Richard.Seifert@West.Boeing.com writes: << I would NOT deviate from the plans for several reasons. The pitch sensitivity problem is only a problem in the minds of the inexperienced KR pilot. In a matter of a couple of hours you will wonder why all planes aren't this responsive. In my opinion the disadvantages of deviating from the plans far outweigh the advantages >> I will agree that deviating from the plans will increase building time but the way I look at it is; Do I simply want an airplane or do I want something in particular? When you look at the RR plans, there are numerous errors and omissions contained in them. It still leaves you wondering and experimenting anyway. There is enough data and experience out there to lead you in any direction you want to take. Yes, you can build a stock KR and it will fly. Can you make the original better for very little work, unequivocally, Yes. Some call the pitch sensitivity of the KR overly sensitive, others say once you get used to it it's a non issue. I personally call it a little unstable in level flight. There are fixes for that which still maintain the responsiveness. Decide what you want out of the airplane and what you want to put in it from the beginning, and it is very little additional work from that point on. Once again, this is simply my opinion and we all know what opinions are like........we all have one:-). (Boy, I feel a fire storm on this one.............who was that that said they were going to take cover in my foxhole.....move over I'm coming in:-) Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:11:55 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Pitch sensitivity Message-ID: In a message dated 07/31/2000 2:45:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mvideo@adnc.com writes: << Could you elaborate a bit. What fixes are most effective without compromising the design or performance?? >> One of the easiest is to increase the area of the horizontal stab so that it extends past the elevator and aft to the trailing edge of the elevator. Look at the charts for horizontal stab area and the KR design does not even fall on the bottom of the chart. Quite simply, there is not enough fixed horizontal stab area. Check out Troy's airplane on Mark Langford's page or Mike Mims web site. You do not have to go as far as I did. Any increase "back there" will help. You can see what I have done on my web site. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Pitch sensitivity Message-ID: <20000731192745.25726.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/31/00 11:24:17 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > Richard.Seifert@West.Boeing.com writes: > > << I would NOT deviate from the plans for several > reasons. The pitch > sensitivity problem is only a problem in the minds > of the inexperienced KR > pilot > > I will agree that deviating from the plans ... > stock KR and it will fly. > Once again, this is simply my opinion and we all > know what opinions are > like........we all have one:-). > > (Boy, I feel a fire storm on this > one.............who was that that said they > were going to take cover in my foxhole.....move over > I'm coming in:-) > Dana Overall > 2000 KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY As a very low-time pilot, a 60 yr old who doesn't have 12 - 14 yrs to build in, and someone who has spent the last 5 yrs reading and trying to decide what to build, this discussion is very important to me. I don't plan to carry passengers, but I REALLY appreciate the improvements I have seen in the KR plan. The "Pitch Sensitivity" worries me and I think a ride in the plane will probably help me decide what to do about that. I probably won't do much except use the new airfoil and a corvair, Dr Dean's and Mark's changes to the tailfeathers, make a pretty simple and plain aircraft just to get flying...I guess it will be pretty hard to stick to the original plan. I think that's part of the magic of the KR ... we all want our stamp on the plane. If I were 20 yrs younger I'd still build a simple one to fly now and get started on a really nice custom plane for the shows. These kinds of discussions really help me because I can see what others have tried and what works and what doesn't and why. Thanks folks, Also thanks for the reports on Oshkosh for those of us who were not able to get there. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:07:31 -0700 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "Seifert, Richard E" Subject: Pitch sensitivity Message-Id: Pitch sensitivity 1449 by: Seifert, Richard E 1452 by: Mark Langford 1453 by: Mike Mims 1454 by: Donald Reid I guess I should apologize to the group as I was told the stretch had a 2' wider fuselage. If that is not the case I would have to agree that it should have been. It is a relatively easy mod to make provided you are not past that point, but the builder must realize that in making the mod, he is now in the scratch build area where pre-fabed parts probably will not fit. What could have been a two year project suddenly becomes a four year or more project. My own project took 6.5 years with the mods mentioned and no breaks other than a two week vacation each year. I guess each builder should ask himself how long he is willing to commit to the building process with the knowledge that each modification will increase that time significantly. I, like many of you, enjoy the building process as much as the flying, but many just build inorder to fly. I just don't believe there are 9 of them to each one of us. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:59:42 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Pitch Sensitivity Message-ID: <9e.7ca17fa.26b750ce@aol.com> Dana you have a point, where is the fox hole. I hear two separate issues. One is sensitivity and the other is stability. The two are different. Sensitivity, a small pitch input on my KR-2 results in a large reaction about the pitch axis. A tiny pitch input gives a normal reaction. I fly finger tip and palm, rather then grip the stick. I imagine that if the size of the elevator (not stabilizer) were significantly reduced, the ability of the elevator to pitch the aircraft would be reduced, reducing the sensitivity. However, I know that the crisp responsiveness of my aircraft at cruise speed, Is not the same performance I get at liftoff speed. Stability is another issue. My understanding of stability is what happens if the aircraft is bumped in pitch, does it return to horizontal or does it do something else. Trim the aircraft to level flight and pull the stick back and then let go. Does the aircraft return to level flight? Mine does not. As a rather short aircraft, the stability around the CG is more of a knife edge rather then the 8" that you imagine to be so large as you read the plans. The difference that you can get from changing the length by one foot in a twenty foot aircraft should be noticeable, yet it may not significantly change the character of the KR design. Other factors affect pitch stability as well and since I'm not an engineer I won't attempt to say what they are. Sport aviation carried a series about stability about a year back, that was real technical on the subject. I would suggest reading the article to glean as much as your level of understanding will allow you to absorb Orma A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:11:36 +0100 To: , From: "macwood" Subject: Re: KR> Pitch Sensitivity Message-ID: <001c01bffbc2$8b2ef1c0$38d7b0c2@tinypc> The pitch sensitivity issue is a bit overblown I reckon . I went from a Vagabond PA17 to my KR2 without any problems in this area. Mind you ,when I was given a ride by Marty Roberts (bless 'im!), I soon learnt what pitch sensitivity was all about,but I weigh 200ish pounds , Marty I guess 180, and he had full wing tanks. But Marty handled this load with without any problem. So I think that if you keep your weight and Cof G right you can't go wrong .(I think Marty's is a standard KR2-I know I had my arm round him most of the time, except when I was inducing PIO's)! Cheers, Mac Hampshire UK ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 10:59 PM Subject: KR> Pitch Sensitivity > Dana you have a point, where is the fox hole. I hear two separate issues. > One is sensitivity and the other is stability. The two are different. > Sensitivity, a small pitch input on my KR-2 results in a large reaction > about the pitch axis. A tiny pitch input gives a normal reaction. I fly > finger tip and palm, rather then grip the stick. I imagine that if the size > of the elevator (not stabilizer) were significantly reduced, the ability of > the elevator to pitch the aircraft would be reduced, reducing the > sensitivity. However, I know that the crisp responsiveness of my aircraft at > cruise speed, Is not the same performance I get at liftoff speed. Stability > is another issue. My understanding of stability is what happens if the > aircraft is bumped in pitch, does it return to horizontal or does it do > something else. Trim the aircraft to level flight and pull the stick back > and then let go. Does the aircraft return to level flight? Mine does not. > As a rather short aircraft, the stability around the CG is more of a knife > edge rather then the 8" that you imagine to be so large as you read the > plans. The difference that you can get from changing the length by one foot > in a twenty foot aircraft should be noticeable, yet it may not significantly > change the character of the KR design. Other factors affect pitch stability > as well and since I'm not an engineer I won't attempt to say what they are. > Sport aviation carried a series about stability about a year back, that was > real technical on the subject. I would suggest reading the article to glean > as much as your level of understanding will allow you to absorb > > Orma > A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR > aviationmech@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/aviationmech > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:33:06 -0400 To: "Kobus de Wet" , "KR-Net" From: "kr2cooper" Subject: Re: KR> Retract locks. Message-ID: <001901bffb1d$c686a740$e3981e3f@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFFAFC.3E161380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kobus Sounds like you have joined the other group of pilots, "Those who have = made a gear up landing." Well at least your gear was down for the = landing. Easy repairs, even the ego. A glasair crashed near here yesterday, Pilot and passenger both killed. = On news last night they suspected the canopy came open in flight. www.wral-tv.com/news/wral/2000/0730-johnston-plane-crash/ Jack Cooper kr2cooper@msn.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kobus de Wet To: KR-Net Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:11 AM Subject: KR> Retract locks. > Hi Guys > Just a reminder to ensure your undercarriage down lock is positive and = holds > during hard landings. > I just lost a good prop, the tips off my exhaust stubs, some paint off = the > lower engine cowling and a big dent in my ego. The approach was = excellent > but I flared marginally to high and thumped her on the centre line. = Well the > locks jumped up and the wheels folded. > So make sure the locks hold. Even if you have to put in a positive = lock over > and above the spring locks. > Kobus de Wet > Cape Town South Africa GMT +2.00 > +27 21 988 3671 Home > +27 82 424 0194 Cell > www.home.intekom.com/kobusdw >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFFAFC.3E161380-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:37:02 -0700 To: myrddin@usa.net From: Ross Youngblood CC: AviationMech@aol.com, jfdewet@intekom.co.za, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Retract locks. Message-ID: <3986700D.5697D695@teleport.com> There is also the "positive pin" latch retrofit design which was offered by Rex Taylor of the now out of business "HAPI" engines. Rex sold his engine business to Mosler, and I don' know if they sell the pin latch setup. There were a couple of comments about this setup in the '89-91 vintage Newsletter along with some photos I sent in of my gear under construction. One of these days I will take some more photos. -- Ross Jerry Mahurin wrote: > I believe that I would fix the retract system before going to all of the > trouble of replacing it, which includs cutting up and replacing sections of > wing and or fuselage. There are several things you can do to retain the > original retract system. The simplest being add another 'rat trap' spring > to each lock. You can also bend up another heavier spring to replace the > weak original ones. Bob Muse Sr. can help you on that one. > > Jerry Mahurin > Lugoff, SC > > >From: AviationMech@aol.com > >To: jfdewet@intekom.co.za, krnet@mailinglists.org > >Subject: Re: KR> Retract locks. > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:23:00 EDT > > > >In a message dated 7/31/00 8:11:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >jfdewet@intekom.co.za writes: > > > > > So make sure the locks hold. > >Hi Kobus, > >If you are using the original Rand retracts, now would be a good time to > >convert to the fixed gear. They don't unlock, don't react badly to > >marginal > >landings and can take a rough surface without worry. They can bolt to the > >spar in place of the original retract brackets > >Good Luck > > > >Orma > >A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR > >aviationmech@aol.com > >http://members.aol.com/aviationmech > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:25:07 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Steven Vitrella" Subject: Re: KR> Retract locks. Message-ID: Sorry to hear your misfortune Kobus. Here's a simple retract gear locking mechanism that I installed in my KR2 to prevent the collapse of the gear in the even that the primary locks jumped or failed. http://kr2gear.homestead.com/gear.html Steve Gainesville, FL ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:56:50 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: E-Mail Address Message-ID: <004c01bffbf2$a29822c0$ede818d0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BFFBC8.B901D800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope some of you out there in this big old world live in England. I = have been trying with no success to get the E-Mail address of Mike = Whittaker. This man is the top designer/builder of ultra light = aircraft in the country. His address is: Apple Tree Cottage, = Churchfield Road, Clayton, Doncaster, South Yorkshire, England, DN5 7BZ. = =20 Please help if you can, God bless the Royal Family Bob Stone 42l4 Lakecliffe Drive Harker Heights, Texas 76548-8611 USA ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BFFBC8.B901D800-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:01:00 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Oshkosh pictures Message-ID: <006301bffb5c$59f11cc0$a5f780ce@300emachine> OK guys, you can come out of your foxholes now! Let the record show that I deliberately avoided the real issue, pitch sensitivity (or stability, as the case may be). That topic speaks for itself. I threw a few pictures of my Oshkosh visit out there at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/osh2000/ . I'll be the first to confess that there are way to many pictures, and they are of the weirdest things, but at least I threw half of them away before you had to suffer through 'em. Oscar said "show 'em all to us", but I spared you. Only 92 of them now, and I compressed the crap out of them to get them down to only 3 Meg, so even you 386 guys should be able to download them all in one shot. If not, just keep hitting "refresh" and they'll probably all eventually download. I've got a flood-soaked set of airfoil templates for the longest claimed download time. My apologies for the one sided view, but I'm into wingtips and fairings at the moment. The last 20 or 30 are just typical Oshkosh stuff, like you'll see in the mags later on. Don't miss Monnett's new "lawn mower" ignition system, the WAVE OF THE FUTURE! I knew ya'll didn't have anything else to do tonight... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:45:03 -0500 To: Mark Langford From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh pictures Message-ID: <398639AE.76B2873A@execpc.com> Hello Mark Langford, The pictures you posted are superb, incredible, excellent... Thanks for the memories!!! Please post more as you get them. Mark Jones Mark Langford wrote: > I threw a few pictures of my Oshkosh visit out there at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/osh2000/ . -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:02:58 -0300 To: "Mark Langford" , From: "Leonardo" Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh pictures Message-ID: <000a01bffbb8$d28a5aa0$4dfbfea9@estacao1> thank you Mark Lnagford. I felt like i 've been there at osh. LEO.BRAZIL.KR2S. -----Mensagem original----- De: Mark Langford Para: krnet@mailinglists.org Data: Segunda-feira, 31 de Julho de 2000 23:06 Assunto: KR> Oshkosh pictures >OK guys, you can come out of your foxholes now! Let the record show that I >deliberately avoided the real issue, pitch sensitivity (or stability, as the >case may be). That topic speaks for itself. > >I threw a few pictures of my Oshkosh visit out there at >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/osh2000/ . I'll be the first to confess >that there are way to many pictures, and they are of the weirdest things, >but at least I threw half of them away before you had to suffer through 'em. >Oscar said "show 'em all to us", but I spared you. Only 92 of them now, and >I compressed the crap out of them to get them down to only 3 Meg, so even >you 386 guys should be able to download them all in one shot. If not, just >keep hitting "refresh" and they'll probably all eventually download. I've >got a flood-soaked set of airfoil templates for the longest claimed download >time. > >My apologies for the one sided view, but I'm into wingtips and fairings at >the moment. The last 20 or 30 are just typical Oshkosh stuff, like you'll >see in the mags later on. Don't miss Monnett's new "lawn mower" ignition >system, the WAVE OF THE FUTURE! I knew ya'll didn't have anything else to >do tonight... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:16:50 -0400 To: From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh pictures Message-ID: <00a801bffbdc$481b7880$0205a8c0@server1> Thanks for pubilshing the pix Mark. My plans to go were crushed on the Sunday before I was to go when my co-traveller/co-pilot backed out. 1 day notice. I didn't have the funds to go solo. My only thrill for the week was to have listened to Chuck Yeager being told to get off the runway by the second Mustang in his formation when they arrives at the show. No respect. AvWeb ATC is nice to listen to when you are absent from the event. I go next year as a solo act. That way I'll be financially prepared for the event. I thought I saw a KR2 in the gallery photos on AvWeb. No caption though. - Cary - -Cary Honeywell - Ottawa Ontario Canada caryh@home.com ve3ev@rac.ca Home page http://24.112.208.98/ KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 10:01 PM Subject: KR> Oshkosh pictures > OK guys, you can come out of your foxholes now! Let the record show that I > deliberately avoided the real issue, pitch sensitivity (or stability, as the > case may be). That topic speaks for itself. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:19:12 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: ASI calibration Message-ID: Howdy, netters- Is there any way to calibrate an airspeed indicator? I've had the question from a builder who thinks his pitot and static ports are correctly located, but via his GPS has found that there is 15-20 MPH error in his ASI. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:14:27 EDT To: taildrags@hotmail.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> ASI calibration Message-ID: Most avionics shops have a pitot static tester which looks for leaks in the system. Then you take your ASI to an instrument shop to have it calibrated. IFR aircraft are required to do this every 24 months Orma A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:49:27 -0700 To: From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Weight Message-ID: <008a01bffaed$d75aaba0$77cb6cce@s8z8i0> ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BFFAB3.16B03580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters, I weighed my '2S which I bought from a couple of guys in = Sundry,Alberta who got it from the original builder. I have all the = goodies on the airframe to simulate the locations of all the stuff and = came out with a total of 620lbs. before filling and paint. It is on = Grove Aircraft tail dragger gear with the axle position even with the = leading edge in level flight position. The tail weight is 27lbs. no = fuel. I think the forward deck fuel tank will hold about 12 to 15 = imperial gallons. The Grove gear weighs 27lbs. plus the Cleaveland = brakes and wheels. Did a tank pressure test and the tank is good. I am = near to engine runup and the precover inspection. Flight test may be in = fall but who knows for sure. Al Friesen ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BFFAB3.16B03580-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:48:47 -0500 To: Al Friesen From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Weight Message-ID: <39863A8F.A5E5B545@execpc.com> Al, Sounds as if you are progressing right along. Glad to hear you're getting close. Keep motivated and good luck. Mark Jones Al Friesen wrote: > Netters, > I weighed my '2S which I bought from a couple of guys in Sundry,Alberta who got it from the original builder. I have all the goodies on the airframe to simulate the locations of all the stuff and came out with a total of 620lbs. before filling and paint. It is on Grove Aircraft tail dragger gear with the axle position even with the leading edge in level flight position. The tail weight is 27lbs. no fuel. I think the forward deck fuel tank will hold about 12 to 15 imperial gallons. The Grove gear weighs 27lbs. plus the Cleaveland brakes and wheels. Did a tank pressure test and the tank is good. I am near to engine runup and the precover inspection. Flight test may be in fall but who knows for sure. Al Friesen -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:55:26 -0700 To: From: "Al Friesen" Subject: ? Message-ID: <00a701bffaf6$fd2dcfc0$77cb6cce@s8z8i0> ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BFFABC.4ED8F420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I got the mount in ok, but the aluminum angle on the inside of the = firewall created some access problems as the tank was permanently = mounted by previous builder. I had the local shop bend me a 1/8" angle = in his hydraulic brake when I said ok he stopped the bend which is about = 120 degrees, just enough to get a wrench in to hold the mount nuts. I = think I will run a piece of A/C tubing down to the internal gear mount = bracket outside front bolt to counteract the pull forces on the upper = mount bolts on hard landings. I don't totally trust the epoxy firewall = assembly. It will counteract the forces on the front of the gear = bracket, like a bridge truss. ????=20 When I do my first start, not a long runup, maybe without prop,do any of = you have any cautions as per fire, over rev, or any procedure I should = be aware of? I have the engine manual for this Revmaster engine with = Revflow carb but would appreciate any input you all may have. Al ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BFFABC.4ED8F420-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:30:46 -0500 To: "krnet user group" From: "Ted Fields" Subject: Re: SWPC: OSH web cam and ATC audio feed. Message-ID: <018001bffb68$e1af5d00$3c0032cf@tbird> Subject: SWPC: OSH web cam and ATC audio feed. > For those of you wondering about where to find the OSH webcam, here is > the address: > > http://www.airventure.org/2000/av_cam.html > > >From my recollections, this to be looking mostly at 18-36. > It's kinda neat to listen to incoming traffic on the RealAudio feed and > then see it on the webcam. > > For those wishing to listen to the OSH ATC feed, go to this address: > > http://www.avweb.com/oshkosh/osh2000/real/index.html > > You will need the RealAudio player and there is a link for you at the > page if you need to get it for your computer. It's a free download. > You are limited to 15 minutes at a time of listening though. It's neat. > > John Alexander > PA-20 N2570A > Webmaster > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:32:36 -0700 To: Paolo Cavazzuti From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Polimeric materials for KR Message-ID: <39866F03.FB944675@teleport.com> Paolo, Both Urethane and Styrofoam have been used as a base substrate for the composite build up on the KR. I don't have an Aircraft Spruce catalog, but they listed the density of the foams. Here is the description from my '1997 Wicks catalog "Polyurethane Foam 2lb density. Small cell Tan or green depending on stock. Not to be "hot Wired" as it omits hazardous gas. Always use a mask to avoid breathing dust... Polyurethane Foam is fuel resistant, therefore it can beused for fuel cells. Can be glued with any type of adhesive." I skipped the part about using a dusk mask. Your other alternative is blue styrofoam "Styrofoam -- Small Cell" Dow 2#/cu ft Blue (as used in Mohawk Goldwing Sky pup and Solitar) Extruded blue styrofoam as used in the building industry for insulation boards. Can be hot wired. Will dissolve with fuel solvents or thinners. Use only epoxy for glueing. I hope this helps! Good Luck! By the way... your english is better than my Italian! Paolo Cavazzuti wrote: > Hy guys! > I've a question for you, sorry if it's too stupid... > Is there any classification about polimeric materials? > I mean: as for steel or others metals you can know > what you're talking about sayng "4130" or others, I > don't know anything similar with "polyhuretan foam" or > "epoxy" etc. (R.R. plans don't mention any specific > number, or factory, or non generic definition... for > example foam: what weight x volume?). > There are some factorys of polimeric materials near my > city, but how can I buy something, or at least bring > some informations, if I'm the first who doesn't know > what I'm talking about? > I'll appreciate everyone who will give me datailed > info about his experience (despite my bad english!). > Thanks in advance, > Paolo Cavazzuti > Modena, Italy > e-mail: sapiddomannaro@yahoo.it > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:52:05 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: N541RY Progress Message-ID: <39867395.6406E63F@teleport.com> Whew... at 105 degrees in the shade, working in the KR creates a lot of sweat! Took most of the evening tonight to get the outboard (R) flap bracket installed. Now I am working on the push/pull rod from the flap actuator to the flap. This worked so much better when I eyeballed it before finishing the glass work several years ago. I again would recommend that anyone building flaps, install all the brackets and work with the Flap spar prior to covering the wing with glass. That way you can have all of this stuff working and access is going to be MUCH easier. I have made contact with one of the local EAA chapters here in Phoenix again. I hope to get another Tech counselor visit done again soon. That should keep me motivated to get done. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:52:00 +0100 To: "krnet user group" From: "macwood" Subject: Mike Whittaker Message-ID: <004401bffbd0$8a81e080$140c3c3e@tinypc> ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFBD8.CFA0E8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Someone on the net asked for Mike Whittaker's email address. It is : = www.laminar.co.uk/mwclub/. Sorry I lost your handle! = = Jolly good = luck! = = Mac. = = Hampshire = England ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFBD8.CFA0E8C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:01:01 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: flying into Oshkosh Message-ID: Dana wrote (about entry procedures into Oshkosh): >Know your power settings to achieve 90 knots Let's see; on the M-19, that would be "firewall the throttle and hold the nose down" ;o) But seriously, thanks to Dana for once again offering to host this year's Gathering. The lack of KRs at Oshkosh will be made up by the number to be seen at Lake Barkley. And with Dana now pumped from his visit to Oshkosh, he'll put on a better Gathering even without having a few "sodas" first. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:49:48 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> flying into Oshkosh Message-ID: <12.51daab.26b875cc@aol.com> In a message dated 08/01/2000 12:02:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: << But seriously, thanks to Dana for once again offering to host this year's Gathering. The lack of KRs at Oshkosh will be made up by the number to be seen at Lake Barkley. And with Dana now pumped from his visit to Oshkosh, he'll put on a better Gathering even without having a few "sodas" first. >> Yes, we all had a good time last year. I talked with the folks at Lake Barkley concerning any rooms left over. As of now, there are no rooms available at the lodge. Search the net for rooms in Cadiz, KY. This will put you a couple of miles away. If anyone out there has reservations somewhere else, would you please post some phone numbers for other to use. As always, you can camp out next to your plane or in the park campground. Oscar, I got the package.........thanks. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:38:22 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: Ceramic exhaust coating Message-ID: <20000801.183823.-216669.0.klw1953@juno.com> My fellow netters: Just got my exhaust back and it looks good. Anyone interested in this procedure? Airborn Coatings, Inc. 52 Villiage St. East Hartford Ct 06108 Phone-860 528 8281 Oh yea, $25 a pipe. ( I have 4 separate ones) Kenny ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:07:42 -0700 To: From: "Bob Smith" Subject: upper Vstab hinge Message-ID: <001501bffc37$348cb260$219e1918@nycap.rr.com> OK guys, I need some good advice here. I've been quiet but I'm still alive and plugging away slowly. I just lined up my 3 Vstab hinges and lightly glued them in place when I noticed a potential problem. The problem is this: the upper hinge is drilled per RR plans with two 3/16" mounting holes. The two holes are not inline, but are offcenter as the plans call for as shown in this sketch: ____________ hinge left edge _________ O_ hinge & tailpost centerline __O________ hinge right edge I just noticed that there will be very little spruce left in the tailpost beyond the holes.......about 5/32" from hole outside edge to spruce edge (=1/4" from hole center to spruce edge). And as we all know, its the outside, not the center of the spruce that takes the load. Is this 5/32" adequate or am I worrying for nothing? Or should I drill the holes on the centerline? I haven't yet drilled the spruce so I could make a new hinge piece if necessary. Maybe some reinforcement is called for??? I suppose the fiberglass that I will later bond to the spruce will help a lot. If that little upper hinge goes, the party's over. Comments are welcome Bob Smith, KR2S in Albany, NY I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:22:30 -0500 To: Bob Smith From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> upper Vstab hinge Message-ID: <398777D6.B9EC9621@execpc.com> Bob, Get rid of the Rand hinges completely. The way to go is with rod end bearing hinges as designed by Dr. Dean Collette. Many of us have converted or installed these with great success. And talk about smooth operation!!! Much easier to install than Rand hinges. They are virtually self aligning and are real bearings. Mark Jones Bob Smith wrote: > OK guys, I need some good advice here. I've been quiet but I'm still alive > and plugging away slowly. > > I just lined up my 3 Vstab hinges and lightly glued them in place when I > noticed a potential problem. > > The problem is this: the upper hinge is drilled per RR plans with two 3/16" > mounting holes. The two holes are not inline, but are offcenter as the plans > call for as shown in this sketch: > > ____________ hinge left edge > _________ O_ hinge & tailpost centerline > __O________ hinge right edge > > I just noticed that there will be very little spruce left in the tailpost > beyond the holes.......about 5/32" from hole outside edge to spruce edge > (=1/4" from hole center to spruce edge). And as we all know, its the > outside, not the center of the spruce that takes the load. > > Is this 5/32" adequate or am I worrying for nothing? Or should I drill the > holes on the centerline? I haven't yet drilled the spruce so I could make a > new hinge piece if necessary. Maybe some reinforcement is called for??? I > suppose the fiberglass that I will later bond to the spruce will help a lot. > > If that little upper hinge goes, the party's over. > > Comments are welcome > > Bob Smith, KR2S in Albany, NY > > I > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 21:33:18 -0400 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> upper Vstab hinge Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000801213006.0095c610@pop.erols.com> --=====================_745535==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I just lined up my 3 Vstab hinges and lightly glued them in place when I >noticed a potential problem. > >The problem is this: the upper hinge is drilled per RR plans with two 3/16" >mounting holes. The two holes are not inline, but are offcenter as the plans >call for >I just noticed that there will be very little spruce left in the tailpost >beyond the holes.......about 5/32" from hole outside edge to spruce edge >(=1/4" from hole center to spruce edge). You need to have at least one full bolt diameter of undisturbed wood between the edge of the bolt and the outer edge of the wood. I did mine just like the Rand hinges, except I fabricated them myself from square stock. They are long enough to allow the bolts to be in line and in the center of the spar. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm USUA Club 250 at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_745535==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:22:19 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Flaps Message-ID: Does anyone out there in netter land have the detailed drawings of the flap assembly for the KR2/KR2S wing stub installation? I would like to buy a copy of those plans. Please E-Mail me at the above address. Don Clarke N9296M El Paso Tx. ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************