From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 22 Aug 2000 04:23:09 -0000 Issue 78 Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:23 PM krnet Digest 22 Aug 2000 04:23:09 -0000 Issue 78 Topics (messages 1724 through 1753): Layups on glass 1724 by: EagleGator.aol.com 1725 by: Doug 1726 by: Steven Eberhart 1727 by: Steven Eberhart 1728 by: Doug 1733 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Layups on glass - what's a siloxane? 1729 by: EagleGator.aol.com 1734 by: Ross Youngblood At last - PROGRESS!!! 1730 by: EagleGator.aol.com 1732 by: Doug Re: stick time 1731 by: Ross Youngblood At last - PROGRESS!!! Looks like two steps back :>( 1735 by: Doug X-C adventure, Rental Planes, and Carb Heat box Idea 1736 by: Ross Youngblood Wheels &Brakes: Ken Brock Mfg.'s vs Cleavland's vs Grove's 1737 by: Todd Servaes 1739 by: Kr2dream.aol.com 1742 by: Robert Stone Re:angle tool 1738 by: larry flesner next generation KR 1740 by: Steven Eberhart 1745 by: Jim Payne t88 glue 1741 by: kevin old 1743 by: Edwin Blocher Re: The 18% airfoil flies too! 1744 by: dene collett compufire Ingition 1746 by: AviationMech.aol.com 1747 by: Mark Langford 1752 by: Ross Youngblood Re: siloxane 1748 by: George Allen Update 1749 by: Edwin Blocher Flight control failure 1750 by: Richard Parker Plastic for layups 1751 by: EagleGator.aol.com 1753 by: Doug Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:03:56 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Layups on glass Message-ID: LayupsOnGlassHeads, I've got a piece of glass, I've got paste wax, but I don't have any mold release. How much trouble am I setting myself up for if I do a layup over just the waxed glass? I'm going to order some PVA, but time is precious these days and I don't want to waste time wating for it to arrive if I can do without it. Thanks in advance! Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:18:55 -0500 To: , From: "Doug" Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass Message-ID: <00a801c00b16$28870fe0$5e7092ce@infolink.net> I manufacture Solid Surface (similar to Corian) we pour the polyester resin and filler matrix on a 1/4"glass sheet . We use RainX as directed and NUTHIN' sticks. RainX is the stuff applied to windshields so you can drive in the rain w/o windshield wipers. But it's much better for mold release!!! Doug > I've got a piece of glass, I've got paste wax, but I don't have any mold > release. How much trouble am I setting myself up for if I do a layup over > just the waxed glass? > > I'm going to order some PVA, but time is precious these days and I don't want > to waste time wating for it to arrive if I can do without it. Thanks in > advance! > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:25:41 -0500 (CDT) To: EagleGator@aol.com From: Steven Eberhart cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > LayupsOnGlassHeads, > > I've got a piece of glass, I've got paste wax, but I don't have any mold > release. How much trouble am I setting myself up for if I do a layup over > just the waxed glass? > > I'm going to order some PVA, but time is precious these days and I don't want > to waste time wating for it to arrive if I can do without it. Thanks in > advance! If you are laying up over glass don't waist your money on the PVA. Just go down to your local hardware store and get a can of Johnson's paste wax. It is all Carnuba wax and works great. Wax your glass with the carnuba wax, buff after dry. Repeat this two more times and lay up your fiberglass. In my experience you don't need the PVA. It is just extra insurance against sticking a part in an expensive mold. If you wax, WITH CARNUBA WAX, the mold at least three times and for a complex or expensive mold 6 times you should be OK - BUT READ MY DISCLAMER IN MY SIG. LINE :-) If it is a mold I have put a lot of time into I will generally spray a coat of PVA just for extra insurance. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:29:32 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Doug wrote: > > I manufacture Solid Surface (similar to Corian) we pour the polyester > resin and filler matrix on a 1/4"glass sheet . We use RainX as directed and > NUTHIN' sticks. RainX is the stuff applied to windshields so you can drive > in the rain w/o windshield wipers. But it's much better for mold release!!! > Doug Does Rain-X have any silicone in it? If it does, don't get it near anything you are going to paint at any time. I am hoping it doesn't because I am always looking for good release agents. I just haven't found anything that is much better that good old carnuba wax. Steve mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:45:39 -0500 To: , "Steven Eberhart" From: "Doug" Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass Message-ID: <00de01c00b19$e4d7a6c0$5e7092ce@infolink.net> Steve : Good Question!!! Don't know the answer as it didn't affect us at this point but I'll be sure to find out . Paint and silicon = very bad news!!! I'd imagine the same for laminates. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:37:00 -0700 To: Doug From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org, EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass Message-ID: <39A0B1EB.2B5281@teleport.com> AhhhH!!!! I love this stuff, makes sifting through all the KR-net garbage worthwile! Thanks Doug! This tip, and the Urethane Engine mount tip I think are the coolest tips for '2000 I have read. -- Ross Doug wrote: > I manufacture Solid Surface (similar to Corian) we pour the polyester > resin and filler matrix on a 1/4"glass sheet . We use RainX as directed and > NUTHIN' sticks. RainX is the stuff applied to windshields so you can drive > in the rain w/o windshield wipers. But it's much better for mold release!!! > Doug > > > I've got a piece of glass, I've got paste wax, but I don't have any mold > > release. How much trouble am I setting myself up for if I do a layup over > > just the waxed glass? > > > > I'm going to order some PVA, but time is precious these days and I don't > want > > to waste time wating for it to arrive if I can do without it. Thanks in > > advance! > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:28:22 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> Layups on glass - what's a siloxane? Message-ID: --part1_c.9a8d48a.26d1fbd6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part1_c.9a8d48a.26d1fbd6_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: EagleGator@aol.com Full-name: EagleGator Message-ID: <70.253b189.26d1fbb8@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:27:52 EDT Subject: Re: KR> Layups on glass - what's a siloxane? To: newtech@newtech.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 In a message dated 8/20/00 9:29:56 PM Central Daylight Time, newtech@newtech.com writes: > Does Rain-X have any silicone in it? ChemE Heads, OK, what are "siloxanes'? Sounds way to much like silicone. RainX contains ethyl alcohol, ethyl sulfate, isopropyl alcohol (I was doing great up till this point), and siloxanes (63148-62-9, 70131-67-8, 69440-59-5). That's straight off the label. I'm really greatful for this link to all of you smart people... Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part1_c.9a8d48a.26d1fbd6_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:39:32 -0700 To: EagleGator@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Fwd: KR> Layups on glass - what's a siloxane? Message-ID: <39A0B284.782D956E@teleport.com> Bummer, Siloxane? Sounds like silicone speak to me. Oh well, I think there are still some nifty applicaitons for Rain-X. -- Ross > > Does Rain-X have any silicone in it? > > ChemE Heads, > > OK, what are "siloxanes'? Sounds way to much like silicone. RainX contains > ethyl alcohol, ethyl sulfate, isopropyl alcohol (I was doing great up till > this point), and siloxanes (63148-62-9, 70131-67-8, 69440-59-5). That's > straight off the label. I'm really greatful for this link to all of you smart > people... > > Cheers, > Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO > EagleGator@aol.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:45:21 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: At last - PROGRESS!!! Message-ID: <92.8f22110.26d1ffd1@aol.com> OK, so it's not much. But I just did the first layup I've done in about two years, and it felt GREAT!!! I've been grabbing a half hour here, a half hour there, just doing what little I could do in that amount of time after trying to remember where the h... I was from the last time I stopped. But today I decided that I needed to reassess my priorities yet again, and decided that I'll get plenty of sleep when I'm dead and it is time to get the things done that I want to get done. So, I took the family out to breakfast this morning, including Grandma and Grandpa, then had my friend Charlie over to talk KRs and to borrow some tools from him, then took the family out to play golf (ok, so it was putt putt), and then proceeded to lay up the skin for one side of my vertical stab (Sorry, Charlie, I'll lay up the next side at a more convenient time!!!). And then, of course, I had a couple of beers to celebrate the day. If you haven't been to Mark Langford's website lately, do so. If you aren't in your garage or workshop in the middle of the night trying to make progress after the inspiration his site can give you, you may need to, as I did, reassess why you have that project going in the first place. 2001 or bust! Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:23:09 -0500 To: , From: "Doug" Subject: Re: KR> At last - PROGRESS!!! Message-ID: <004f01c00b27$856b3680$4e7092ce@infolink.net> siloxanes... Hope I didn't cause any grief. After running a web search, it don't look good. There is some relationship between siloxanes and silicon...Waiting for someone a lot smarter than me to explain. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:30:15 -0700 To: "William J. Starrs" From: Ross Youngblood CC: KR-net Subject: Re: KR> stick time Message-ID: <39A0B057.760EC868@teleport.com> "William J. Starrs" wrote: > Help! I completed my KR-1 passed inspection etc. but there is no one here with a > KR-2. We live in Prescott,AZ about 100 miles North of Phoenix and about the same South of Flagstaff. Will be happy to pay for some stick time , Bill Starrs > Bill, See if you can find a local EAA Flight Advisor, they can hook you up with some folks who may be able to help you in your area. In my area, (Oregon) the flight advisor couldn't find a KR around, so recommended I get some time in an RV tailwheel, as it is a similar configuration. This was available up in Oregon at Vans with their transition training program. I left the state before I could fly with them, the pilot was pretty booked up. I have my tailwheel endorsement, and will try to get some refresher time in a Cub here before I fly mine. I've got lots of work on my KR yet before I touch base with the flight advisor again, but post what you find. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:55:48 -0500 To: "Doug" , , From: "Doug" Subject: At last - PROGRESS!!! Looks like two steps back :>( Message-ID: <002c01c00b2c$1359e960$287092ce@infolink.net> siloxanes... Hope I didn't cause any grief. After running a web search, it don't look good. There is some relationship between siloxanes and silicon...Waiting for someone a lot smarter than me to explain. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:19:07 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: X-C adventure, Rental Planes, and Carb Heat box Idea Message-ID: <39A0BBCB.4E81C307@teleport.com> This is a long winded email... Ok KR fans... for those that have been following my story... I have been working on the ole' IFR ticket, just so that my effort at passing the written test last year won't go to waste. It's a long story, but is slightly related to having lived in Oregon where every weekend has a bit of rain and sky obscuration. Since I could never count on a good weekend for X-C flying up there, I had decided to get my IFR ticket for those VFR on top days. (Many days in Oregon are like this). Well now I'm back in Arizona... and need to build the X-C time so that I will meet FAA requirements for the flight experience. Gee, pure torture, guess I have to fly just about anywhere I can think of... OK, so now I have you set up. I'm flying the old rented spam can Piper Warrior, and pop up to Payson, AZ for breakfast ($100 Omlete). It's a perfect day, and I decide that I should call and plan to extend the trip out to Show-Low and make a triangluar course out of it... just as I reach for my wallet... which I left in the bedroom at home. I guess I won't be buying any fuel, darn... then it occurs to me, that I won't be buying breakfast either... well they were nice at the restraunt, and since I was planning on flying Mom up next weekend, I get to pay next Saturday.... now, I'm resigned to get back in the plane, and waste a beautiful flying day cause I'm not going on a long X-C flight without topping off the tanks. Murphy's law dictates I will get disoriented and need the fuel, but only if I don't purchase it. So I work on the checklist to head back home. Crank, Crank, Crank... no start. Hmmm sounds like the Bendix is not engaging the flywheel. So before I run up a mechanic bill, I run the prop through one time, and try again. No luck. I'm thinking, I wonder how hand proping this baby compares to starting the Champ. So I call the FBO collect, seems I am unusual in expecting starters to always work, and this is somthing that I should expect (as an experienced pilot, I should have known this). Well after the instructor tells me to "pop" the starter, and try tapping the bendix with a screwdriver, I get the idea, and decide to go back to play with it. Lucky for me, a few taps with the fuel strainer, and I got in and it started up. The trip home was uneventful. So, I'm thinking... , now that I am "experienced", my level of confidence in rented aircraft at $61.00 an hour is less than what I expected from my KR. At least if the KR died, I could go to the auto parts store, and buy a starter. Probably for what the hours rental costs. They have another aircraft on the line I rented, which when the alternator gauge failed to pass the alternator test, the instructor decided it was low risk to go anyway, and we flew. When we landed, I was informed that "Oh, you need to check the indicator lights, the gauge is dead". I realize that the rental fleet is aging, and it is difficult to keep all the bells and whistles goin, but I'm thinking the alternator case would have been a good case for an INOP sticker. These planes are in better shape than a Champ I flew once, but sometimes the details make you wonder, if more important stuff is getting neglected. At any rate, all of this had me motivated, so Sunday was work on the KR day. I built up some 2x2x3" Oak blocks which I will be bonding to the wing spar, to accept removable tie down rings. And I fabricated some oak spacers for my canopy latch setup. So far it's looking presentable, which is much better than the two previous attempts. The canopy latch consists of two 1/4" aluminum pins that have a "T" like handle so they are accessable inside and outside the cockpit. Squeeze the two T handles together, and it releases the canopy pin from two angle brackets with holes. I used Oak, as there is not much width where the two 5/8" longerons are, and Spruce/AC Plywood was not sturdy enough when clearanced for the compression springs. If this doesn't work, I will make the next sill out of nylon. I have all the little brackets made up, now, all I need to find is all the A/C hardware I ordered before I moved down here, so I can install everything, make a final fit check, and drill the two holes in the canopy "L" brackets so they can be successfully captured by the pins. If I am happy with this solution, photographs will be posted... if not, I may just go with the screen door latch setup. And finally, I have a crazy idea for a carb heat/ram air plenum[sp]? If I make a cylinder and put two "V" shaped dividers Where the points of the "V's don't quite touch (Almost an X) see below. v ^ Well, lets use an X If I place the "X" in the cylinder, and put a round vane at the end, which only exposes two of the four V pie shaped areas, I can have RAM air coming in from the top/bottom or left/right segments, and HEATED air coming in from the left/right or top/bottom segments. So by rotating the vane 90 degrees, I can select ram air, or heated air. By keeping the top/bottom "V"s from touching, I can provide heated air from a single flange on the side to both the left/right chambers. What I liked about this approach is that the control pressure to move the vane may not be impacted by the ram air much as a butterfly setup. Imagine those circular vanes on Weber barbeque's and you will get an idea of what I'm thinking about. I'm sure that there has to be a downside to this design, otherwise we should have seen it on an airplane around. At any rate, I'm getting ready to build a cardboard mockup, to see if it will fit in my cowling, allow for an air filter, and provide the cross sectional airflow I think I need. While I'm on this... I was thinking of putting the filter on the CARB side of this setup, so that both heated and non-heated air gets filtered. But then I considered, that this might be a slight fire hazard if the engine were to backfire. Anyone want to comment on this? Finished what I hope are my last gussets on the airplane. I had added a couple of 5/8" cross members to the aft fuselage, (where the plans indicate NOT to put cross members), but since my aft deck is hinged & removable, a tech counselor recommended I ad a cross member and a diagional (at section "K" I believe). At any rate, I did this last year, but couldn't bring myself to make gussets. I found this nifty little gadget for making gussets. It's a little yellow plastic angle measurement goodie, that you just wedge into the corner, then take out and viola' you know exactly what shape to make your gusset. Wish I had this tool about 3000 gussets ago. Also, found that I was missing a strap on my ELT. Installed that. I'm using the ACK ELT which uses Duracell batteries. Duracell batteries are dated, which means the FAA will let you use them. If I don't get my KR flying by 1/2002, I will have gone through a complete set of ELT "D" cells with no flying hours, so I've got to get cracking. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:32:28 -0700 To: KRNET From: Todd Servaes Subject: Wheels &Brakes: Ken Brock Mfg.'s vs Cleavland's vs Grove's Message-ID: <39A086AB.A500B56C@netzero.net> All, I have the set of Cleavlands that came with the kit from RR, Roy Marsh recomended them rather than the Matcos he had, but I have seen on the web that both Ken Brock and grove are now making there own hydralic brakes which look very good and especially the Ken Brock wheel & brake are much lighter. I freely confess to being somewhat of a weight watching freak and would like to save any I can if anyome knows enough about either setup to make a recomendation or simply compare the three the information would be helpful. Todd Servaes KR-2S _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:00:05 EDT To: taservaes@netzero.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kr2dream@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Wheels &Brakes: Ken Brock Mfg.'s vs Cleavland's vs Grove's Message-ID: For what it is worth, Ken Brock supplies a number of custom parts for the FAA approved instruments we produce and the quality of his parts are nothing less than outstanding. I would give his setup serious consideration. Bob Lasecki Chicago President, Mitchell Aircraft products, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:34:50 -0500 To: "Todd Servaes" , "KRNET" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Wheels &Brakes: Ken Brock Mfg.'s vs Cleavland's vs Grove's Message-ID: <000501c00c4e$83ce6d60$0101a8c0@pavilion> Todd: If you are a weight watching freak, that's good. Those builders who do not watch the weight they are building in, end up with a (as Ken Rand would say) a LEAD SLED. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Servaes" To: "KRNET" Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 8:32 PM Subject: KR> Wheels &Brakes: Ken Brock Mfg.'s vs Cleavland's vs Grove's > All, > I have the set of Cleavlands that came with the kit from RR, Roy Marsh > recomended them rather than the Matcos he had, but I have seen on the > web that both Ken Brock and grove are now making there own hydralic > brakes which look very good and especially the Ken Brock wheel & brake > are much lighter. I freely confess to being somewhat of a weight > watching freak and would like to save any I can if anyome knows enough > about either setup to make a recomendation or simply compare the three > the information would be helpful. > > Todd Servaes > KR-2S > > > > _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:24:59 -0500 To: Ross Youngblood ,krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: Re:angle tool Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000821072459.007d27a0@mail.midwest.net> I found this nifty little gadget for making gussets. It's a little yellow plastic angle measurement goodie, that you just wedge into the corner, then take >out and viola' you know exactly what shape to make your gusset. Ross ======================snip================================== You can make a tool from your worn out hacksaw blades. Cut or break the blade any length you want starting from the hole ends. Take your two pieces of blade and place the holes over one another with the smooth sides of the blades out. Rivet the two pieces together and then tap the rivit with a hammer to adjust the firmness of movement. When you insert the tool into a corner it takes the same angle as your work. You can now use it to adjust your saws, sanders, etc. I used a red blade for vertical angles and a black blade for horizontal so I only had to make one trip and I could remember which was which. Good luck. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Steven Eberhart Subject: next generation KR Message-ID: I didn't get this out Friday but what the hey, Monday is "close enough to Friday for KR work" :-) I have had several questions lately about the BX-2 Cherry design that I purchased the plans for. The BX-2 is a Swiss design that is very popular in Europe. Construction is very similar to the KR. Wood fuselage, glassed foam wings and tail, etc. THe BX-2 is what the KR would have grown up to be if Ken had been around to refine the design. A few of the features that come to mind are: - Douglas Fir construction rather than Spruce. - Douglas Fir and plywood fuselage and wing spar construction - Quick removable wing and stabilizer panels for easy trailering - retractable Tri-gear - stearable nose wheel, mechanisn and geometry looked just like Dana's Bonanza when we were comparing the drawing to his while sitting around his Bonanza at Oshkosh. - real flaps with interconnected drooping ailerons - Friese ailerons, ala Mark Langford - Stabilator with anti-servo tab - Designed for Continental C-65 to O-200, Rotax 912/914 engine (110 HP Corvair looks to be ideal) - 8 pounds of engineering drawings covering everything. Even, drawings to make your own tow-bar and propeller! - Laminar flow wing airfoil - 40" wide fuselage - Fully lofted fuselage, no banana boat here. When built to plans the top longerons are perfectly flat. - Complete POH - Stable THe negatives - plans cost about $600 and must be shipped from Switzerland. - Plans and documentation are in German :-( - You don't have to interpolate anything. THere are detailed engineering drawings for even the smallest most inconsequential parts. You don't get the opporitunity to play amatuer airplane designer, you just build it to the plans :-( :-) If I have peaked your curiosity, take a look at the BX-2 Cherry at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~nvav/pag/Cherry.html You can find more information about the cherry using the advanced search engine at http://www.altavista.com Search on BX-2 near Cherry OK, so when am I starting mine? Since I passed the check ride for my PP-ASEL four months ago I have finally started construction. Airfoil templates for the stabilator have been cut out and spar construction has started. Lets see now, should be ready for the 2004 Gathering. That is assuming I will be allowed to join in with a "stinking foreign design". Just remember it is only the plans that are written in German. It is a Swiss design not German Luftwafe. I promise no straffing runs. Well, I guess the flaps do go to 60 degrees deflection so they might work for dive bombing air brakes :-) Yes, I am using the Ashok airfoils, you knew I couldn't build everything to plans didn't you. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:02:22 -0400 To: From: "Jim Payne" Subject: RE: KR> next generation KR Message-ID: Steven, Looks like a nice airplane. I'm curious to know more obout the Quick removable wings. Sounds like a great KR modification....How do the spars attach? Jim jim@manufacturingconcepts.com -----Original Message----- From: Steven Eberhart [mailto:newtech@newtech.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 10:55 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> next generation KR I didn't get this out Friday but what the hey, Monday is "close enough to Friday for KR work" :-) I have had several questions lately about the BX-2 Cherry design that I purchased the plans for. The BX-2 is a Swiss design that is very popular in Europe. Construction is very similar to the KR. Wood fuselage, glassed foam wings and tail, etc. THe BX-2 is what the KR would have grown up to be if Ken had been around to refine the design. A few of the features that come to mind are: - Douglas Fir construction rather than Spruce. - Douglas Fir and plywood fuselage and wing spar construction - Quick removable wing and stabilizer panels for easy trailering - retractable Tri-gear - stearable nose wheel, mechanisn and geometry looked just like Dana's Bonanza when we were comparing the drawing to his while sitting around his Bonanza at Oshkosh. - real flaps with interconnected drooping ailerons - Friese ailerons, ala Mark Langford - Stabilator with anti-servo tab - Designed for Continental C-65 to O-200, Rotax 912/914 engine (110 HP Corvair looks to be ideal) - 8 pounds of engineering drawings covering everything. Even, drawings to make your own tow-bar and propeller! - Laminar flow wing airfoil - 40" wide fuselage - Fully lofted fuselage, no banana boat here. When built to plans the top longerons are perfectly flat. - Complete POH - Stable THe negatives - plans cost about $600 and must be shipped from Switzerland. - Plans and documentation are in German :-( - You don't have to interpolate anything. THere are detailed engineering drawings for even the smallest most inconsequential parts. You don't get the opporitunity to play amatuer airplane designer, you just build it to the plans :-( :-) If I have peaked your curiosity, take a look at the BX-2 Cherry at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~nvav/pag/Cherry.html You can find more information about the cherry using the advanced search engine at http://www.altavista.com Search on BX-2 near Cherry OK, so when am I starting mine? Since I passed the check ride for my PP-ASEL four months ago I have finally started construction. Airfoil templates for the stabilator have been cut out and spar construction has started. Lets see now, should be ready for the 2004 Gathering. That is assuming I will be allowed to join in with a "stinking foreign design". Just remember it is only the plans that are written in German. It is a Swiss design not German Luftwafe. I promise no straffing runs. Well, I guess the flaps do go to 60 degrees deflection so they might work for dive bombing air brakes :-) Yes, I am using the Ashok airfoils, you knew I couldn't build everything to plans didn't you. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:32:14 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "kevin old" Subject: t88 glue Message-ID: HI ALL JUST FINISHED THE FIRST FUSELAGE SIDE FRAME ON MY KR2S, USING T88 GLUE FROM SYSTEMS THREE RESINS.ON RECIEVING MY GLUE I DID NOT RECIEVED ANY INSTRUCTIONS .I HAVE BEEN APPLYING THE GLUE TO BOTH PIECES OF TIMBER TO BE GLUED, IS THIS NECESSARY OR CAN YOU JUST APPLY THE GLUE TO ONE SIDE ONLY,SECONDLY I USE WET AND DRY SANDPAPER FOR MY SANDING OF TIMBER, AND I HAVE JUST READ AN OLD ARTICLE WHERE A TECHNICIAN FROM A COMPANY CALLED CHEM TECH WHICH MAKES OR MADE T88 ADVISES NOT TO USE WET AND DRY PAPER, AS HE CLAIMS A RESIDUE IS LEFT BEHIND WHICH WILL EFFECT THE GLUE JOINT. HAS ANY ONE HEARD OF THIS PROBLEM BEFORE. MY LAST CONCERN WITH THE GLUE IS THAT THE MATERIAL THICKNESS OF MY GUSSETT BLOCKS ON THE VERTICALS OF THE SIDE FRAME WERE .75MM (APROX 1/32INCH)UNDER THE 5/8INCH SPECIFIED ,SUBSEQUENTLY ON THE GLUE UP,THE GLUE RAN INTO THE GAP(THE TRIANGULAR FACE THAT WILL CONTACT THE PLYWOOD SIDE) AND COATED THE GUSSETT BLOCK WITH A FILM OF GLUE.I HAVE SANDED THE ENTIRE FRAME BUT SOME OF THE BLOCKS ARE STILL COATED WITH GLUE,NOW WITH THE GLUEING OF THE PYWOOD SIDES AS THE NEXT STAGE,CAN I PUT GLUE ON TOP OF THE CURED GLUE SO I CAN GLUE DOWN THE PLYWOOD SIDES TO THE FRAME. ANY INPUT ON MY CONCERN THANKS GUYS ,THE KRNET HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP TO ME . KEVIN MAVRIC PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:47:31 -0500 To: "kevin old" , From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> t88 glue Message-ID: <004401c00b97$e315d540$ef80aec7@com> Kevin, I recently tested gluing wood to to a T88 coated piece. I put a coat of T88 on one piece, let it set 2 days and then glued and clamped another piece to it. Again let it set 2 days and the wood failed, not the glue. Take this for what it's worth and I hope you get more responses. Also from my testing glue on one surface works fine. Proper mix is the main thing. 1 to 1 by volumn or 1 part resin to .83 parts haredner. Hope this helps. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: kevin old To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 10:32 AM Subject: KR> t88 glue > HI ALL > JUST FINISHED THE FIRST FUSELAGE SIDE FRAME ON MY KR2S, USING T88 GLUE FROM > SYSTEMS THREE RESINS.ON RECIEVING MY GLUE I DID NOT RECIEVED ANY > INSTRUCTIONS .I HAVE BEEN APPLYING THE GLUE TO BOTH PIECES OF TIMBER TO BE > GLUED, IS THIS NECESSARY OR CAN YOU JUST APPLY THE GLUE TO ONE SIDE > ONLY,SECONDLY I USE WET AND DRY SANDPAPER FOR MY SANDING OF TIMBER, AND I > HAVE JUST READ AN OLD ARTICLE WHERE A TECHNICIAN FROM A COMPANY CALLED > CHEM TECH WHICH MAKES OR MADE T88 ADVISES NOT TO USE WET AND DRY PAPER, AS > HE CLAIMS A RESIDUE IS LEFT BEHIND WHICH WILL EFFECT THE GLUE JOINT. HAS > ANY ONE HEARD OF THIS PROBLEM BEFORE. > MY LAST CONCERN WITH THE GLUE IS THAT THE MATERIAL THICKNESS OF MY GUSSETT > BLOCKS ON THE VERTICALS OF THE SIDE FRAME WERE .75MM (APROX 1/32INCH)UNDER > THE 5/8INCH SPECIFIED ,SUBSEQUENTLY ON THE GLUE UP,THE GLUE RAN INTO THE > GAP(THE TRIANGULAR FACE THAT WILL CONTACT THE PLYWOOD SIDE) AND COATED THE > GUSSETT BLOCK WITH A FILM OF GLUE.I HAVE SANDED THE ENTIRE FRAME BUT SOME OF > THE BLOCKS ARE STILL COATED WITH GLUE,NOW WITH THE GLUEING OF THE PYWOOD > SIDES AS THE NEXT STAGE,CAN I PUT GLUE ON TOP OF THE CURED GLUE SO I CAN > GLUE DOWN THE PLYWOOD SIDES TO THE FRAME. > ANY INPUT ON MY CONCERN THANKS GUYS ,THE KRNET HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP TO ME > . > > KEVIN MAVRIC > PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:18:06 +0200 To: Mark Langford , krnet@mailinglists.org From: dene collett Subject: Re: KR> The 18% airfoil flies too! Message-id: <000001c00ba6$3e0eae00$3ca6ef9b@denec> ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford To: Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 11:10 PM Subject: KR> The 18% airfoil flies too! > WingNuts, > > Dean Selby just called with some great news...he flew his plane for the > first time today! It was a day of many firsts. First left seat in a KR, > first time he flew his new plane, first time the AS5048/15 wing was flown, Hi guys The above is great news to me and I am sure to a whole bunch of you guys out there as well.This comes just in time for me since I will be finalising wing incidence and washout in the not too distant future for the 18%/15% foil. So Mark, please pass my congrats to Dean from Dene(pronounced the same) and lets get those performance figures a.s.a.p. Dene Collett South Africa denec@netactive.co.za ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:46:00 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: compufire Ingition Message-ID: I need more info on the Compufire system. Such as any known failures, If the distributor cap is replaced, how tall is the replacement by comparison (Will I likely need a blister on the cowl to make room). Does any one have one for sale used. Orma A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:10:51 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> compufire Ingition Message-ID: <003001c00bc5$0d2d2860$a5f780ce@300emachine> Orma wrote: > I need more info on the Compufire system. This photo ( http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/98120614.jpg ) should answer several of those questions. Don't know about reliability. Steve Bennett probably has some idea. There are two varieties. One is as shown, which comes with it's own dual coil pack. The other is simply a replacement for the points, with all other parts remaining the same. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:31:10 -0700 To: AviationMech@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> compufire Ingition Message-ID: <39A2020D.7938876B@teleport.com> Orma, Compufire makes several VW ignition replacement outfits... from simple point replacments to full blown setups. I have the "full blown" setup. It consits of a firewall mounted (well thats where I put it), dual coil assembly with a heat sink. The brackets that come with the unit are poor grade steel, I replaced this with L channel aluminum and mounted the unit to the firewall. I had to machine some grooves in the heatsink to mount mine with regular AN hardware, although I suppose I could have tapped the heat sink, I just wanted a "shake proof" install, and didn't think a tap would do the trick. The dual coil has a white and black wire coming off of it... Don't ground the black wire, it will ground that coil. (I hooked the black to black white to white on my tachometer and oops... 1/2 of my plugs would not fire.) That's a long story... at any rate, no harm done, unhooking the black wire fixed everything. The pickup is a hall effect switch consisting of a rotor which is full round, and pops in place of the standard Bosh 009 rotor. It has four square magnets at 90 deg intervals, which spin underneath a machined "rotor cap" which replaces the distributor cap. It is about 1/3 the height of the standard distributor cap, but with the distributor itself, you will need a slight bulge. Their is a 2 lead (maybe 4 lead I forget) wire which runs from this sender to the firewall mounted unit... the stock wires are too short, as they are designed for mounting in a VW. Make your own extension with molex connectors from Radio Shack, or buy the Compu-Fire extension wire kit. The spark plug wires plug from each plug into the firewall mounted coil assembly. Each coil handles two plugs, and they are labeled 1,2,3,4... it is timed similar to the standard ignition unit. The spark is terrific, as I was running on two cylinders, and didn't know it, until I wondered why my EGT was reading 0.... it was on one of the grounded coils cylinders. The one caviat they have is not to leave the ignition on when the engine is idle.... during normal operation only one of the two coils is firing at one time, but it is possible when the engine is not running for the pickup to be positioned such that both coils may be on, and with each coil being 6A , you can have a 12A load on your battery. I'm not sure if there is a damage concern, but you can be sure things will get overheated. Also, I took this warning and put my ignition system on a 15 (or 20A I don't recall) circuit breaker setup, and I can "pull" the circuit breaker out so I can play with radios etc, with the engine off and the master on, but no current going to the Compu-Fire setup. I am currently setup only for a single ignition Compu-FIre ignition, but am considering buying a set of dual plug heads... I'm on the fence about this... my hangar mate in Oregon had a dual ignition electronic setup, which had two batteries... he did this since he didn't have the ignition battery setup to recieve a charge from the alternator... his concern was over relay failure I think... at any rate, he did have a failure of one of the batteries, and the backup kicked in. In my case, I have seperate Battery and Alternator bus systems and the entire electrical system can be isolated from one or the other. (Suprised me when I turned the master switch off, and my engine still ran, until I recalled I needed to disconnect the alternator breaker). I've got lot's more ground testing of my setup to do which I hope to accomplish this fall. -- Regards Ross AviationMech@aol.com wrote: > I need more info on the Compufire system. Such as any known failures, If > the distributor cap is replaced, how tall is the replacement by comparison > (Will I likely need a blister on the cowl to make room). Does any one have > one for sale used. > > Orma > A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR > aviationmech@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/aviationmech > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:27:03 -0400 To: From: "George Allen" Subject: re: siloxane Message-ID: <003001c00bc7$5091be20$d7abdcd8@george> ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C00BA5.C8F23600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Siloxane is a Silicone polymer (OH-terminated polydimethyl siloxane) George (planeless) Allen ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C00BA5.C8F23600-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:28:25 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Update Message-ID: <001801c00bc7$823e6ae0$55e179a5@com> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C00B9D.9832A200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, I finally got started on my center section spars today. Let's call them = new and interesting. They will be laminated and bent so the wing will be = straight from fuselage to tip. Same 5018/5016 templates, dimensions, = etc. This idea was first concieved by (who other than) Dr. Dean and Mark = L.. Mark and I brainstormed this one Sunday this spring when I visited = him. I won't have a completed spar ready but I will try to bring a bent = spar cap to the gathering. BTW, TET will have plans for these oneday = soon, price to be determined, but I understand cheap. Speaking of cheap, if you are not signed up on Priceline, = www.priceline.com you need to check it out. I'm saving 12 cents a gallon = on gassoline off the pump price. Check it out. ED Ed Blocher E-Mail - kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C00B9D.9832A200-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:33:12 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Cc: rnprn@monad.net, george_carmichael@millipore.com, westgate@nep.net, Sapblatt@hotmail.com Subject: Flight control failure Message-ID: Something to think about. As luck would have it I experienced a flight control failure today after doing a nice little 1/2 hour familiarization ride for a prospective new partner in my XP. After greasing a landing and avoiding the 2 deer that ran in front of me, we decided to go up again because it was so beautifully clear. (its has rained here all summer with typical highs of only 75 F) When I went to turn left crosswind the yoke didnt move. I kept the power on to maintain altitude and skidded through all my turns to maintain a wide pattern and get lined up to thankfully our (beautiful) 6000' rwy. I notified all other traffic in the area and they kept clear. I greased on the final landing and when I shut down the airplane and manually excercised the aileron it freed up. I then taxied the plane over to the shop because I wasnt about to fly it again and the ailerons locked up again. But this time they were fully deflected. Boy am I happy they werent fully deflected while I was in the air or I would still be up there doing circles! The landing wouldnt have been so easy. Funny thing was after I landed I was talking to the next guy who landed in his Aeronca (which he had just upgraded the engine and put an electrical system in) and he had put his 2 fuel caps on the opposite tanks by mistake and his engine had quit (one pressurizes the tanks, the other doesnt if I understood him correctly) and fortunately because he had a new electric fuel pump he made it back in too, but he wasnt sure if he was going to lose his engine while he was waiting for me to get back on the ground! Thank gosh I had watched those emergency procedures tapes and spend plenty of time with my flight instructor friend letting him test me on emergency procedures. (I'm down to only about 2 out of my 9 lives) Rich Parker Peterborough NH ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:09:51 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Plastic for layups Message-ID: <5f.9833187.26d3570f@aol.com> Oh keepers of the ark of composite construction knowledge: I want to use a combination of the Langford and Eberhart layup techniques to make the skins for my stub wings, and I need to get some plastic to put on the foam molds to serve as a barrier/release medium. What kind of plastic do I need to use, and where do I get it? Thanks in advance for the help. OK, the pane glass thing worked GREAT, thanks to all who responded. I didn't try the RainX, however, because I was making skins for my vertical stabilizer and didn't want the problem of possibly painting over silicon -- which would have turned out to be the case. Three coats of quality paste wax worked beatifully, and the second skin is curing as I type. I'm going to try the RainX with some pieces that won't need paint, as it would be much quicker than the paste wax. A funny thing happened when I moved the stick in my airplane tonight before I came in from the garage -- the elevator moved, and even in the right direction! That's two nights in a row of measurable progress, and I have the plan for tomorrow night's work. I think I'm back in the saddle. Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:22:26 -0500 To: , From: "Doug" Subject: Re: KR> Plastic for layups Message-ID: <008301c00bf0$94d1ae00$047092ce@infolink.net> Rick You still need to be careful with that silicon stuff as I've been told that some of it's components can float in the air and I've seen the effects underneath what would have been a beautiful acrylic enamel paint job. Body supply shops have pre-cleaners 'prepsol' ?is one I think that helps and there are fisheye additives but after this thread I'm considering going back to carnuba wax also. I can imagine the grief of a solid surface joint that won't hold!!! I appreciate these guys watching our 6 :>) Doug ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************