From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 4 Oct 2000 03:10:51 -0000 Issue 100 Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 7:11 PM krnet Digest 4 Oct 2000 03:10:51 -0000 Issue 100 Topics (messages 2288 through 2317): Re: Jim Sellars 2288 by: Cary Honeywell 2292 by: Cary Honeywell Mim's KR 2289 by: Dave and Tina Goodman Re: krnet Digest 2 Oct 2000 13:19:45 -0000 Issue 99 2290 by: Jeff Scott 2000 gathering 2291 by: w.g. kirkland Re: SPAR DEFINITIONS ? 2293 by: Jerry Mahurin Re: SEALING SPARS 2294 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien 2295 by: Edwin Blocher sealing 2296 by: Timothy Brown 2301 by: Mark Jones 2305 by: Ross Youngblood My project for sale 2297 by: Mike Mims KR2-S 2298 by: KMcke10305.aol.com 2299 by: Albert Pecoraro 2300 by: Albert Pecoraro 2306 by: Ross Youngblood FOR SALE 2302 by: garbez Mark's comments 2303 by: garbez Videos 2304 by: Mark Jones Which Wing? 2307 by: bob_lee.juno.com 2310 by: Stefan B. Correction 2308 by: bob_lee.juno.com 2309 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com Subaru 2311 by: DClarke351.aol.com lock nuts 2312 by: Bob Smith 2313 by: Steven Eberhart 2314 by: Donald Reid KR Gathering 2315 by: Jim Faughn 2000 Gathering photos 2316 by: Mark Langford Brazil???? 2317 by: JAMES Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:25:29 -0400 To: , "James Sellars" From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR> Jim Sellars Message-ID: <001c01c02c74$3bc1a9b0$0205a8c0@server1> Will do. - Cary - -Cary Honeywell - Ottawa Ontario Canada caryh@home.com ve3ev@rac.ca Home page http://24.112.208.98/ KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Sellars" To: "Cary Honeywell" ; Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: Re: KR> Jim Sellars > Cary; I am very interested in an airframe that I could mount my engine and > instruments to. We determined that the problem was fuel > contamination. Although we always drained fuel from the tank we must have > got into some kind of dirt and sludge in the tank that restricted the fuel > flow to the injectors. Having gone through that process I would finish an > airframe that was near completion in a heart beat. I'm not too interested > in a project that still has thousands of hours to finish. Prefer a "S" > model tail dragger, and Canadian as it is easier to register. Let me know > if you hear of something. KR-2 is best but sonerai or midget mustang or > sonex would certainly do. Regards Jim & thanks > > At 10:21 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Cary Honeywell wrote: > >Sorry. I have to reply here. Jim's IPS determined that my email was spam so > >I can't reply to him directly. > > > >Jim: I will keep my eyes posted for a KR2 for you. Thanks reply. > > > >- Cary - > > > >(Hey this is Friday isn't it?) > > > > -Cary Honeywell - > >Ottawa Ontario Canada > >caryh@home.com > >ve3ev@rac.ca > >Home page http://24.112.208.98/ > >KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:39:24 -0400 To: From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR> Jim Sellars Message-ID: <004001c02c86$f0fac520$0205a8c0@server1> Sorry guys. I can't seem to send email directly to Jim Sellars. Postmaster keeps returning them as undeliverable. Jim might want to check his "reply to" address to see if it is correct. This will be the last time I do this to the net. (I hope!) - Cary - -Cary Honeywell - Ottawa Ontario Canada caryh@home.com ve3ev@rac.ca Home page http://24.112.208.98/ KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 06:39:12 -0700 To: From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Subject: Mim's KR Message-ID: <001001c02c76$6352aea0$c2780ccf@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02C3B.79A31F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Is there no other way? Can you store the plane in a storage facility or = in a friend's garage? There has to be somewhere you can keep it cheaply = for an extended period of time that will allow you to save the dream. If there is not, I am sorry that this did not work out. Good luck and I = hope something comes up that will allow you to keep your KR. Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02C3B.79A31F40-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 08:55:47 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Jeff Scott Subject: Re: krnet Digest 2 Oct 2000 13:19:45 -0000 Issue 99 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20001002084207.00af91e0@cic-mail.lanl.gov> Well said Dave. Quite frankly, as the KRNet administrator, I rarely even read and almost never post to the net anymore because to this exact problem. I have many years of airplane building knowledge and experience to share, but don't offer it on line anymore because I don't care to argue the finer points or defend myself every time I make a post. Attacks of a personal nature on the KRNet will not be tolerated. I have no problem with denying access to users that violate this rule. Jeff Scott KRNet administrator mailto: jscott.pilot@juno.com At 01:19 PM 10/2/2000 +0000, you wrote: >From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" >Subject: Attacks > >Okay folks, enough of the personal attacks, veiled or otherwise. If you = >have a difference with something someone is putting out, say your >piece.........= > >Mark, Mike, Donald, and all of the others out there who have built or = >are building great planes are to be commended for their efforts... and = >their willingness to be patient with those of us who know less than they = >do and ask many questions. Imagine if these folks just kept to = >themselves and said nothing on the net? I have watched several people = >put up with ridiculous slander and accusations of incompetence hurled by = >people who do not even have a flying aircraft! One must have the = >patience of Job to put up with this. > >Thank you to all who have shared on the mailing list and have answered = >my questions. Folks, lets get back to the experimental side of this = >hobby we have and the joy we felt when we started building and flying. = >Stop the fighting. There is not a war on here. > >Dave "Zipper" Goodman >zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:22:29 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: 2000 gathering Message-ID: <004601c02c84$ac80c7c0$ce905bd1@kirkland> ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C02C63.0CFA7960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to Dana et all for a great gathering. Too bad there wern't more = A/c there but wx stopped many from coming. Thanks again to Terry for the = great ride. I for one found the Hamburgers much better than the catered = food we had in 99 and if the KR group make a bit of a profit from it so = much the better. I finally got frustrated Sun and took off through a small break in the = clouds but it soon became solid overcast except to the east. I ended up = spending Mon. in Bowling green KY. Finally got home Tue. after 8 hrs = airborne. Should have stayerd at Lake Barkley and enjoyed the company. Never has the Wx. channel had such a devout audience!. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C02C63.0CFA7960-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:03:29 GMT To: mikemims@home.com, kae_ar@yahoo.com From: "Jerry Mahurin" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> SPAR DEFINITIONS ? Message-ID: But, those holes were not in the 'bays', they were drilled thru the caps. My older KR2 has additional holes drilled in the bays. Those bay areas should have been varnished before closing up. Another little hint. Put screen wire in those holes, lest you get into your bird with a wasp or some other insect that has taken up residence in your center section spar.... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC >From: Mike Mims >To: Frank Ross >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> SPAR DEFINITIONS ? >Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:38:31 -0700 > >Frank Ross wrote: > >Did the early, successful KRs >have these pressure holes? > > > >For the most part the early KRs did not have plywood on both sides of >the spars. Of course the main spar did but it also has holes drilled in >it for the main landing gear brackets, control stick, etc. > >__________________ >Micheal Mims >Trying to get this thing done! >http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ >http://explanes.com/ >Aliso Viejo Ca >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:39:44 -0700 To: myrddin@usa.net,mikemims@home.com,kae_ar@yahoo.com From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> SEALING SPARS Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20001002093944.00707b24@localaccess.com> Netters, An easy, 3 step process to seal the interior of a wood structure against moisture: 1. Using an unthickened epoxy resin/hardener mix, coat the mating surface and entire insides of the structure to be closed up with a good, wet brush coat. 2. using a brush or foam roller, coat the entire inside face of the plywood sheet to be fitted. 3. Mix an additional batch of your epoxy/resin mixture to which you add enough Cab-O-Sil (silica thickener) or plastic thickener to make it slightly stiff. Brush this thickened mix onto the mating surface and install the panel. That's it! You have created the best possible epoxy bond and applied the best possible moisture barrier, all in one step! This has been the process I've used for 58 custom built wood/epoxy boats over the last 18 years, and the same thing I did when I applied 1.5mm okoume plywood to the full span ailerons of my current project last week. I started out 18 years ago using WEST System epoxies and switched to System Three resins about 12 years ago. Either product works fine: SyS 3 is a bit less expensive (and they have box seats at Safeco Field!) Regards, Tracy O'Brien www.tracyobrien.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:40:15 -0500 To: , , , "Tracy & Carol O'Brien" From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> SEALING SPARS Message-ID: <002c01c01f44$659562a0$d3e279a5@computer> After I had some plywood glued on I dont waste any more T88. If you have a little left over thin it with denatured alcohol and paint it on for a sealer. It takes a few minutes to stir it up but it works for me. ED Ed Blocher e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:39 AM Subject: Re: KR> SEALING SPARS > Netters, > > An easy, 3 step process to seal the interior of a wood structure against > moisture: > > 1. Using an unthickened epoxy resin/hardener mix, coat the mating surface > and entire insides of the structure to be closed up with a good, wet brush > coat. > > 2. using a brush or foam roller, coat the entire inside face of the plywood > sheet to be fitted. > > 3. Mix an additional batch of your epoxy/resin mixture to which you add > enough Cab-O-Sil (silica thickener) or plastic thickener to make it > slightly stiff. Brush this thickened mix onto the mating surface and > install the panel. > > That's it! You have created the best possible epoxy bond and applied the > best possible moisture barrier, all in one step! > > This has been the process I've used for 58 custom built wood/epoxy boats > over the last 18 years, and the same thing I did when I applied 1.5mm > okoume plywood to the full span ailerons of my current project last week. > > I started out 18 years ago using WEST System epoxies and switched to System > Three resins about 12 years ago. Either product works fine: SyS 3 is a bit > less expensive (and they have box seats at Safeco Field!) > > Regards, > > Tracy O'Brien > > www.tracyobrien.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:57:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Timothy Brown Subject: sealing Message-ID: <20001002185743.26017.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Isn't it true that the entire interior of the plane needs to be sealed for the same reason as the spar interior? Won't just a coat of varnish or polyurethane work? Would seem that behind the re-enforcement plywood "triangles" at the interior of the boat at the spar "slots" would also need sealing. Also, shouldn't a small hole be drilled in this plywood for pressure equalization? Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:22:37 -0500 To: Timothy Brown From: Mark Jones CC: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> sealing Message-ID: <39D8FC9C.A43DED4C@execpc.com> ALL WOOD on your KR needs to be sealed. This provides you with a moisture barrier which will prevent premature rot. Helmsman Polyurethane Varnish will do the trick. This can be found at any marine supply store. Timothy Brown wrote: > Isn't it true that the entire interior of the plane > needs to be sealed for the same reason as the spar > interior? Won't just a coat of varnish or > polyurethane work? > Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:49:06 -0700 To: Timothy Brown From: Ross Youngblood CC: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> sealing Message-ID: <39D96542.79072FAE@teleport.com> This is true, all of the interior should be varnished with a coat of Spar Varnish... however, you may wish to wait until you have epoxied all the stuff you may want to epoxy, as you need to SAND away any varnish on surfaces you need to glue to. -- Ross Timothy Brown wrote: > Isn't it true that the entire interior of the plane > needs to be sealed for the same reason as the spar > interior? Won't just a coat of varnish or > polyurethane work? Would seem that behind the > re-enforcement plywood "triangles" at the interior of > the boat at the spar "slots" would also need sealing. > Also, shouldn't a small hole be drilled in this > plywood for pressure equalization? > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: My project for sale Message-ID: <20001002193101.26619.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> I have had quite a few emails concerning my plane. If you sent me and email and did not get a response please send me another one as I may have missed it. Sorry BTW You can send email to this address or mikemims@home.com ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:39:12 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KMcke10305@aol.com Subject: KR2-S Message-ID: <76.383a14d.270a3e60@aol.com> Hi my name is Keith I live in SW Florida and have been looking at different a/c designs for the last few years and have decided on the KR2S. I have a couple of questions about it and I was hoping to get some feedback. First of all what is the most economical engine to use, I mean as in inexpensive to build? Can the fuselage be widened at all and still use the premolded parts from RR? After the sides are covered with ply, does it have a sheet of glass over it or does it just get snaded and painted? How much modification has to be done to the airframe in order to use the new wing if any? I have several other questions, but will wait until later to ask. Any info that you can give me will be greatky appreciated. Sincerely, Keith Ft. Myers, FL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:18:01 -0400 (EDT) To: KMcke10305@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Albert Pecoraro Subject: RE: KR> KR2-S Message-ID: <385763848.970517882462.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> Keith, <<>> Most people have had great success with the VW powerplant Type ! and Type IV engines. There are also several builders that are looking at converting Corvair engines for aircraft use - myself included. <<>> If you widen the seating area more than 1", you probably won't be able to use the RR canopy frame. If you keep the forward deck and turtledeck dimensions according to plan, you can use the RR premolds. I widened my plane 3 1/2" in the middle so I can use any of the RR premolds. I have to customize these pieces for my own aircraft. <<>> Some people put 1 layer of very light deck-cloth (1.8oz). But there are many planes that were just sealed, sanded and painted. The glass isn't really required (according to the plans). <<>> For the best explanation to your last question visit Mark Langford's site at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford. Select the link to his project and then look for the link on the AS504xx airfoil. It's all there! ;-) Good luck with your new project! Albert Pecoraro KR-2S Grand Rapids, MI --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:28:01 -0400 (EDT) To: Albert Pecoraro , krnet@mailinglists.org, KMcke10305@aol.com From: Albert Pecoraro Subject: RE: KR> KR2-S Message-ID: <384916384.970518482772.JavaMail.root@web625-wrb.mail.com> ------Original Message------ From: Albert Pecoraro To: krnet@mailinglists.org, KMcke10305@aol.com Sent: October 2, 2000 8:18:01 PM GMT Subject: RE: KR> KR2-S There was an important word missing in my response to Keith - the word NOT. <<>> ... I widened my plane 3 1/2" in the middle so I can NOT use any of the RR premolds. I have to customize these pieces for my own aircraft. Sorry 'bout that. Albert Pecoraro KR-2S Grand Rapids, MI --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:56:31 -0700 To: KMcke10305@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR2-S Message-ID: <39D966FF.F9A15BBD@teleport.com> Hi Keith! > Hi my name is Keith I live in SW Florida and have been looking at different > a/c designs for the last few years and have decided on the KR2S. I have a > couple of questions about it and I was hoping to get some feedback. First of > all what is the most economical engine to use, I mean as in inexpensive to > build? The VW Type1 and Type 4 have been discussed along with the Corvair and the Subaru engine. I have a friend flying behind a Subaru engine in his Zenair, and a couple of KR pilots have them, but my thoughts are that the Subaru may be a bit heavy, but then I have a KR2 project, not the 2S. Other 2S's fly behind Continential engines. > Can the fuselage be widened at all and still use the premolded parts > from RR? I understand the parts have some small degree of "flex" in them, but you could foam and glass your own aft deck and fwd deck. I think the fwd deck would be the most difficult to make fit, as it is a smaller piece and might not have the flex you need to widen. A dragonfly canopy ($$$) is a great choice for widened fuselages, I measured one once. It turns out that the standard KR canopy has a lot of flex in it as well. (I can't speak for the canopy frame as I made my own upper deck pieces from Kevlar). > After the sides are covered with ply, does it have a sheet of glass > over it or does it just get snaded and painted? Look at my plane http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm Does that plywood look like it needs the extra weight of a sheet of glass to make it look pretty? You can however see the grain if you look VERY CLOSE, this could have been remedied by adding more filler/primer and MORE WEIGHT. I have heard both techniques used. > How much modification has to > be done to the airframe in order to use the new wing if any? I'm not sure about that one... I think the spar locationns change slightly as the angle of incidence changes a bit. (We have had some interesting discussions on the 'net about this in the past). -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:19:31 -0500 To: From: "garbez" Subject: FOR SALE Message-ID: <000201c02cd8$1dcb6180$e194fea9@msgtlg.netins.net> I'M SORRY, I KNOW THIS IS NOT FRIDAY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS OUT, I'VE GIVEN UP ON THE CORVAIR ENGINE AND I AM DOING A TYPE 4 REARDRIVE. AS YOU KNOW MY PLANE WEIGHS 700 LBS EMPTY, AND THE 1835 FLEW IT WELL BUT IT JUST DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH FOR ME AND THE WIFE. FOR SALE: 1835 VW ENGINE, FIREWALL FORWARD. DUEL IGNITION, 52-46 PROP. ONLY FOUR HOURS FLIGHT TIME ON ENGINE. MOUNT FOR KR-2, JUST BOLT MOUNT TO FIREWALL, PLUM AND WIRE ENGINE AND GO FLY - $2,950.00. ALSO: CORVAIR SHORT BLOCK, STANDARD CRANK, OT10 CAM. RODS - DONE. FRONT COVER DONE, ALL BY WILLIAM WYNNE, CORVAIR ENGINE MOUNT WITH TRI GEAR BRACKET FOR KR-2 ALSO MADE BY WILLIAM WYNNE, SELL ALL FOR $1,000.00 WILL NOT PART OUT. MIKE GARBEZ (712) 778-2449 HOME - LEAVE A MESSAGE E-MAIL MSGTLG@NETINS.NET ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:55:47 -0500 To: "KR-POST" From: "garbez" Subject: Mark's comments Message-ID: <002e01c02ce5$7b631d80$e194fea9@msgtlg.netins.net> Mark asked me to inform everyone that I am not down on the Corvair. I thought it would be a great engine and still believe it is, however I want to get my plane back in the air, it has been down for a year now and the easiest and best way for me to do that is to put type 4 reardrive which will produce 90 hp which is plenty for us. It is not easy to find a machinist or parts here. The support with the corvair started out really good for the first 6 months but the following 6 months there was none! As for his offer, whatever. The only way I would send parts back to WW is with cash in hand first, since that probably won't happen our offer stands $1,000.00 takes all. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:05:44 -0500 To: CorvAIRCRAFT , KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: Videos Message-ID: <39D95B18.C0E8AEF3@execpc.com> --------------8C545E80CAAC52B582D9B87A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Friends, I am making copies of my home videos again and letting them go for $10 each including postage within the USA. I have the following to offer: William Wynne (TCA) 1999 KR Gathering Corvair engine forum. $10 each. This is of William giving a one hour presentation on the Corvair engine. Lighting in the video is a little bright but the audio is good. There is a fifteen minute additional segment of a Corvair engine running on a test stand which is excellent footage. KR Gathering 1999. $10 each. This is a one hour video and shows all the 17 or so KR's which flew in. Almost everyone who attended was captured on this tape. Excellent footage and awesome fly by footage. KR Gathering 2000. $10 Each This is a one hour video. Seven KR's made it this year and I have captured it all on video. The fly by footage on this tape is excellent. Has anyone ever said the KR looks like a small fighter plane in the air? Well, the footage of Marty Roberts and his beautiful KR-2 doing fly bys at what, 175 to 200 mph, will get your blood boiling. There is also very good footage of the awards banquet on this tape and those singing pilots. By the way, I am making these available only as a gesture, not to profit in any way. The $10 each barely covers the cost and labor involved in getting these out to you. If you need motivation, memories of the Gatherings, Corvair engine info or if you were not there and wish you could have been, then these are for you. Email me with your request at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com or simply mail your request and check to: Mark Jones 615 Wexford Circle Wales, WI 53183 -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage --------------8C545E80CAAC52B582D9B87A-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:38:39 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: bob_lee@juno.com Subject: Which Wing? Message-ID: <20001003.093839.252.6.bob_lee@juno.com> Netters, I don't want to start another slam-fest on the net, but I think that there is some room for all of us to be satisfied on this question. Several people discussed the pro's and con's of which wing to use. The proof is in the data. Someone posted a web site that if you dug down into you got to the URL http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~ashok/kr2/airfoils/. On this page there is a comparison of the RAF48 vs the new airfoil. The most interesting thing is that they have the CL vs CD curves for both wings plotted. Now to figure out which wing you want you need to locate yourself on the CL vs CD plot. In my case I figured 1000 pounds gross and looked at the CL required at different speeds. In the speed range above 100 mph the new airfoil has a distinct drag advantage up to about 170 mph. This corresponds to a CL range of .15 to .45. Interestingly, if you operate below 100 mph the RAF48 has a distinct advantage and above 170 they are essentially tied. This advantage is strictly in lift vs drag, because the new airfoil does generate a higher maximum lift coefficient. To me though it is more important to go fast than to stall slow and the difference is not too great that slow flight safety is an issue. I have already built my spars and have Dan's wing skins so I will stay with the RAF48. If I can get the cruise speed up to 175 mph it will not make any difference which wing I use. To me the drag advantage is not worth building wings and scrapping skins that I already have. If you are starting from scratch you've got to make your own choice, but thanks to kr-net the data is there if you will dig for it. Thanks to whoever it was that posted the web site that got me the CL vs CD comparison plot. It helped me make the decision for my specific case. Regards, Bob Lee N52BL ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:52:38 +0200 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Stefan B." Subject: Re: KR> Which Wing? Message-ID: <39DA1CE6.24725488@wanadoo.fr> Speaking about wings, is there any information about the performance of a KR-1 or -2 with the GA(W)-1 or/and GA(W)-2 airfoils? I saw in the newsletters somebody built a KR-1 using these airfoils which were in fashion in the 70's. The KR-derivative Wanderer also uses this airfoil but there couldn't be any comparison as she became a completely different airplane. Stefan Balatchev, Paris, France mailto:Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:39:09 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: bob_lee@juno.com Subject: Correction Message-ID: <20001003.123909.252.7.bob_lee@juno.com> Netters, Thanks to Steve Eberhart for pointing out to me that I refered to the wrong figure in the URL http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~ashok/kr2/airfoils/ The correct comparison is in figure 12. Unfortunately I used figure 1 which was an earlier version of the modified airfoil. Figure 12 shows the as5045 airfoil and represents a 20 point reduction in drag in the area of concern CL < .45. In my case that computes to 11 mph more in top end speed for the same power. All of a sudden I'm interested in making this change. Thanks again Steve. Bob Lee N52BL ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:41:47 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Correction Message-ID: <12.30bd0cb.270b745b@aol.com> In a message dated 10/03/2000 12:39:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bob_lee@juno.com writes: << and represents a 20 point reduction in drag in the area of concern CL < .45. In my case that computes to 11 mph more in top end speed for the same power. All of a sudden I'm interested in making this change. Thanks again Steve. Bob Lee >> That is where the wing designed by those on the KRNet excels. It is so much more efficient at cruise. In addition to increased speed, you improve the efficiency of your cruise thereby reducing fuel flow for the same speed which transfers into increased range. Mark, Mark and I were discussing the "new wing" at the gathering (since we were staying together) and something needs to be pointed out. This wing was not, and is not, endorsed by Rand Robinson. It was not commissioned by RR in the beginning. It simply started out as a means to compare the various wings being considered by KRNet builders. It really and truly is simply a wing that was modeled, wind tunnel tested and analyzed by, and for, some builders thinking of using it on their airplanes. The numbers have been put out there for anyone to see. If you decide to use this wing, so be it. I believe some KR builders who are using the RAF48 think this is a wing being "pushed down their throats", it's not. Like I said, it is just a wing (that went through a hell of a lot analysis) that some people wanted to put on their projects. For those who say the RAF48 is a better wing simply are not looking at the numbers. It's like saying a 1973 Mustang is more aerodynamic than a 2000 Mustang..............it just ain't so. The 73 is a classic...........but then again, so is the RAF48. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:24:27 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Subaru Message-ID: <29.af38c26.270bb69b@aol.com> Still have the Subaru EA 81 for $500.00 + shipping. I also have 3 JEPEC pictures for those are interested. Don Clarke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:43:02 -0700 To: From: "Bob Smith" Subject: lock nuts Message-ID: <000c01c02dac$d10403e0$e0911918@nycap.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02D72.244076A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is it acceptable to use nylon lined lock nuts (AN) for the bolts that = hold on the hinges through the spruce spars for hstab, elevator, vstab, = and rudder? The plans say its OK but we all know about those plans. I have already used them on my elevator so its a done deal. But I am = about to bolt on my hinges to the vstab and rudder and could use the = castellated ones with cotter pins and drilled bolts. On a lighter note, I did the lousyest landing of my life in a C 152 on = saturday. I haven't been flying much so I was more rusty than I thought. = I was doing a short field approach to a very difficult runway (tall = trees both sides and far end, steep uphill slope, short and narrow RW, = small cliff on approach end). Things were looking great through short = final but at the last few seconds I got caught a bit low and I gave it = throttle too little and too late. I guess I dropped it in from maybe 6 = feet and got bounced around a lot. No damage except to my ego. My = takehome message was if you haven't been flying then dont overrate your = flying ability. Bob Smith, Albany NY ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02D72.244076A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:15:04 -0500 (CDT) To: Bob Smith From: Steven Eberhart cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> lock nuts Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Bob Smith wrote: [snip] > On a lighter note, I did the lousyest landing of my life in a C 152 on saturday. I haven't been flying much so I was more rusty than I thought. I was doing a short field approach to a very difficult runway (tall trees both sides and far end, steep uphill slope, short and narrow RW, small cliff on approach end). Things were looking great through short final but at the last few seconds I got caught a bit low and I gave it throttle too little and too late. I guess I dropped it in from maybe 6 feet and got bounced around a lot. No damage except to my ego. My takehome message was if you haven't been flying then dont overrate your flying ability. THere is no more "sinking feeling" than the one from a flare too high. I just passed the 100 hour mark, on my new PP-SEL ticket, on the trip back from the Gathering so my ratio of landings to arrivals isn't yet what I would like it to be. That sinking feeling of a Cessna taking the elevator ride to the runway is just that, a very sinking feeling. I just thank Cessna for making such strong landing gear :-) Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:56:43 -0400 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> lock nuts Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001003205426.009558c0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_1697143==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:43 PM 10/3/2000 -0700, Bob Smith wrote: >Is it acceptable to use nylon lined lock nuts (AN) for the bolts that hold >on the hinges through the spruce spars for hstab, elevator, vstab, and >rudder? The plans say its OK but we all know about those plans. > >I have already used them on my elevator so its a done deal. But I am about >to bolt on my hinges to the vstab and rudder and could use the castellated >ones with cotter pins and drilled bolts. If there is no motion between the parts, then a lock nut can be used. The hinges to the spar is a perfect example of using the lock nut. If there is motion between the parts, like one hinge half to the other, then the castle nut and cotter pin must be used. --=====================_1697143==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:56:56 -0500 To: "KR Net Response" From: "Jim Faughn" Subject: KR Gathering Message-ID: I was waiting for some pictures from Steve Bennett but they didn't come out clear enough to show what we wanted. Thanks to Mark L. who said he would post them but sorry no pictures. What do you do when you are stuck for several days after a KR Gathering. Look at each others airplanes. What we found was that the top of Marti's wing stubs had cracks in them. Bottom line was it appears that the castings that hold the gear legs to the main spar loosened up, the bolts bent, or something happened to the spar. We are betting that the bolts bent but don't know yet and Marti hasn't opened up his wing stubs yet. This occurred on both sides and we really don't believe it had anything to do with the fact he blew out a tire. So, what caused it? Well after a couple of days of talking, we all believed that it was caused from being over gross weight. One of the things that Marti has done over the years is dispel the myth that a KR can't carry a passenger. However, he will at times take people that weigh more than 200 pounds. This given the increased weight of his plane with the O-200 means he is over the design gross of the plane by several hundred pounds. What does this all mean? Well, I for one am going to go on a diet. I also plan on setting an example next year by showing my weight and balance information, weighing myself (with clothes on) and then figuring out how much of a passenger I can take. Marti has also figured that he can should only take about a 200 pound passenger as a maximum. I guess when Marti gets his wing stubs cut open, that's going to be tough to do, then we will find out what really happened and if the preliminary deduction is correct. Anyway, we talked about letting everyone know in advance. Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314) 652-7659 mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net N891JF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:01:10 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: 2000 Gathering photos Message-ID: <006101c02d9e$96758220$f2de8e18@300emachine> KRNetHeads, I finally got around to condensing those 300 pictures that I took at the Gathering down to 40, and the results are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/barkley2000/ . It really was a blast, even if it did rain a little on Saturday and a lot on Sunday. I wouldn't have missed it. I didn't concentrate as much on the hardware as the people, for some reason. Next year I hope to get "stuck" for a couple of days staring at other guys' KRs... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:12:57 -0700 To: From: "JAMES" Subject: Brazil???? Message-ID: <002001c02db9$6180bb00$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C02D7E.B3EC2220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NO. alot of people think im from who-knows-where, but I currently live = in aspen, co.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C02D7E.B3EC2220-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************