From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Oct 2000 17:25:24 -0000 Issue 110 Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 9:26 AM krnet Digest 19 Oct 2000 17:25:24 -0000 Issue 110 Topics (messages 2583 through 2612): Fiberglass tanks and Cruddy tanks 2583 by: kmiller01.ticnet.com 2590 by: James Sellars Carbs. 2584 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: Corviar vs Subaru 2585 by: Eduardo Iglesias 2588 by: Gaston Landry Re: Fuel Tanks 2586 by: T152GMAN.aol.com 2589 by: James Sellars 2593 by: Robert Stone 2595 by: cartera 2604 by: Jerry Mahurin 2605 by: ACMan5548.aol.com 2610 by: Robert Stone Interesting item on eBay web site item#471784123: CORVAIR 110 hp ENGINE 2587 by: flykr2s.execpc.com Carbs, Carb heat 2591 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER BMW 2 cylinder motorcycle engine as alternative for KR2? 2592 by: Peter Nauta 2601 by: Lon V Boothby Re: Weight & Balance 2594 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 2602 by: Mike Mims 2603 by: Frank Ross Re: Building a fuel tank 2596 by: Laheze.aol.com Fuel tank building 2597 by: Laheze.aol.com Re: V.W. voltage output 2598 by: Ross Youngblood 2599 by: GoFlySlow2.aol.com 2600 by: Ross Youngblood carbon or kevlar 2606 by: vincent chrisovergis new airfoil 2607 by: vincent chrisovergis Re: fuel pump location? 2608 by: FRED SMITH wing attachments 2609 by: Timothy Brown 2611 by: Robert Stone Kit for sale 2612 by: paul eberhardt Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:22:51 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: kmiller01@ticnet.com Subject: Fiberglass tanks and Cruddy tanks Message-ID: <20001017212251.308.qmail@pop3.ticnet.com> You guys are making this harder than it needs to be. The foam core in the tank might be a good idea, we used them in race cars before I upgraded to airplanes... I'm building my tank stock, just like the plans, and don't plan to worry much about it. I had a 1941 Aeronca Chief with a 12 gallon tank just ahead of the instrument panel. If you cracked it up, I'm pretty sure that metal tank wouldn't have survived much more than a 'glass tank. As for the "cruddy tank", is your front deck removable? Even if it's not, it shouldn't be too tough to cut it loose, take the bottom out of the tank, fix or rebuild the tank then put a new bottom on the tank. I'm building my tank now and it can't be too tough. It's not going to be fun, messing up that pretty paint job but just about any way you try to replace the tank will be the same amount of work. Don't use the sloshing compound, some of them don't like fiberglass and you'll get little blobs of dried up gunk in the fuel filter (and hopefully not the carb) from now on. Ok, flameproof suit on! You guys play nice out there, we're all building our planes the way we think is best. What I think is best may not jive with what you think is best... Meet us at the Southwest Regional Fly-in at Abilene, TX this weekend! Kerry Full owner of 1/2 of a KR2! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:13:09 -0300 To: kmiller01@ticnet.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: James Sellars Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass tanks and Cruddy tanks Message-Id: <4.3.0.20001018091052.00a71640@mail.auracom.com> Kerry; You' re right about the fiberglass tank being as rugged as anything else. In my forced landing event, the tank never gave any sign of leaking,still doesn't leak a drop. Just a plain old stock hand made tank, works like a charm. Regards Jim At 09:22 PM 10/17/00 +0000, kmiller01@ticnet.com wrote: >You guys are making this harder than it needs to be. The foam core in the >tank might be a good idea, we used them in race cars before I upgraded to >airplanes... I'm building my tank stock, just like the plans, and don't >plan to worry much about it. I had a 1941 Aeronca Chief with a 12 gallon >tank just ahead of the instrument panel. If you cracked it up, I'm pretty >sure that metal tank wouldn't have survived much more than a 'glass tank. > >As for the "cruddy tank", is your front deck removable? Even if it's not, >it shouldn't be too tough to cut it loose, take the bottom out of the tank, >fix or rebuild the tank then put a new bottom on the tank. I'm building my >tank now and it can't be too tough. It's not going to be fun, messing up >that pretty paint job but just about any way you try to replace the tank >will be the same amount of work. Don't use the sloshing compound, some of >them don't like fiberglass and you'll get little blobs of dried up gunk in >the fuel filter (and hopefully not the carb) from now on. > >Ok, flameproof suit on! You guys play nice out there, we're all building >our planes the way we think is best. What I think is best may not jive >with what you think is best... > >Meet us at the Southwest Regional Fly-in at Abilene, TX this weekend! > >Kerry >Full owner of 1/2 of a KR2! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:12:49 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Carbs. Message-ID: <61.8168b14.271e6121@aol.com> Hi Netters During my trip from Michigan to Barclay, KY. I experienced a rough running engine. It delayed my arrival until time for the dinner on Saturday. I have had many discussions both during my trip and following. While at Barclay, awaiting weather to improve, we had little else to do. Because of the low temp, high humidity presence of visible moisture, it was concluded that I may have experienced icing. My carb is a revflow with alternate air diverter (warm cowling air). The onset of the rough engine occured at 4500MSL over Indy, with the ceiling close on top of me and visible precipitation. I had been at cruise nearly 2 hours, when the ceiling fell. I selected Alt Air, and adjusted the mixture. The engine became smoother, but I decided to land and investigate. I found nothing. I changed Ignition parts, plugs, the works. The next morning I continued toward Barkley. The ceiling was around 2000 MSL and the temps and humidity were about the same. Within thirty minutes the rough running was back. I went west looking for higher ceilings and eventually landed at Terre Haute. Again I investigated the rough engine, but it was OK on the ground. Later that afternoon I continued to Barkley and within 1/2 hour the roughness was back. After a hasty night of meeting lots of good KR folks and singing songs, I awoke Sunday to scuzzy sky and no way to depart in all the rain which lasted until 'Tuesday morning. On Monday I completed the installation of a carb heat system to give me heated air from the manifold rather then warm cowling air. On my departure Tuesday, with low ceilings, the rough running engine returned shortly after takeoff and during my climb to 3500 MSL. I pulled carb head and adjusted the mixture until the engine ran better. Several more times on the way to Indy I used the Heat and it worked partially each time. A few days ago I took the KR up continuing to climb until at 5500 MSL the engine demanded that I adjust the mixture. I did and the engine was smooth again. I stayed up an hour and nothing else happened. Since I have a Revflow I contacted Joe at the Company. He felt certain that I experienced Ice that was probably inside the manifold after leaving the carb. He told me of an aircraft in Alaska that used circulating warm engine oil to heat the lower intake manifold. He also suggested that a better mixture could be obtained by allowing the fuel/air mix to stay in a single pipe longer before it is split to the Lt. and Rt. manifolds. He also mentioned getting the mixture to swirl after leaving the carb, as a means of obtaining a better mixture. In conclusion It looks like warm cowl air alone is not enough to guarantee no system icing in conditions known to produce ice, even though the carb itself may not Ice. Having said all this I still feel the Revflow is better then Posa, and the Zenith. I would like to see the mod for the cockpit adjustable mixture control someone mentioned the other day. Orma Aviationmech@AOL.com Builder and Pilot, KR-2 N110LR, 1984-2000 AP with Inspection Authorization ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:48:21 -0300 To: "James Sellars" From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Cc: "KR-net" Subject: RE: KR> Corviar vs Subaru Message-ID: <00ad01c038ad$e31e8620$a51c33c8@EduardoIglesias> Dear Jim What type of motor the Saturn is? In which cars does it come and what years? I thank you the information. Eduardo La Pampa Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:23:38 ADT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Gaston Landry" Subject: RE: KR> Corviar vs Subaru Message-ID: The saturn is a newer (past 10 years) American car company. As most modern small/mid-sized cars, it's an in-line 4 cyl. for more info on them, you can check out http://www.saturnbp.com/index.jhtml Gaston >From: "Eduardo Iglesias" >To: "James Sellars" >CC: "KR-net" >Subject: RE: KR> Corviar vs Subaru >Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:48:21 -0300 > >Dear Jim > >What type of motor the Saturn is? In which cars does it come and what >years? I thank you the information. > >Eduardo >La Pampa >Argentina > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:26:53 EDT To: carson.c@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: T152GMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <93.1eeba50.271e646d@aol.com> The rubberised slosh coat will breakup in time.Thats ok if your on the ground! Trust me on this one i used it every day for years working in the radiator shops. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:04:38 -0300 To: "Carson J. Cassidy" , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: James Sellars Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-Id: <4.3.0.20001018090310.00a767a0@mail.auracom.com> Carson; I have heard that the sloshing can come away and plug fuel filters and otherwise restrict the fuel to the engine. This is to be avoided. Not sure if it's true but that's what a friend told me to be wary of. Regards Jim At 12:22 PM 10/17/00 -0600, Carson J. Cassidy wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I completed a removeable fiberglass fuel tank for my KR2S project some >time back and have been giving some consideration to coating the inside >of the tank with a rubberized slosh coat. Has anyone tried this? Is >there a downside to trying it? >Thanks. > >Carson Cassidy >Calgary, Alberta > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:43:01 -0500 To: "Carson J. Cassidy" , , "James Sellars" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <001301c03944$03346a60$0101a8c0@pavilion> Netters: A well constructed fuel tank out of composite materiel does not need any sort of coating. Like at least two members have advised, you are asking for serious problems with some of these rubberized products. I have experienced an engine shutdown twice in my flying career and it's a very uncomfortable position to be in. You do not need to use any foam to make a tank. Just six sides of thick fiberglass well impregnated with resin then tape them together. Use fuel, not water to leak check. Water is too thick. If you can fill a tank with gas and find no leaks, install it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Sellars" To: "Carson J. Cassidy" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:04 AM Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks > Carson; I have heard that the sloshing can come away and plug fuel filters > and otherwise restrict the fuel to the engine. This is to be avoided. Not > sure if it's true but that's what a friend told me to be wary of. Regards Jim > > At 12:22 PM 10/17/00 -0600, Carson J. Cassidy wrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > >I completed a removeable fiberglass fuel tank for my KR2S project some > >time back and have been giving some consideration to coating the inside > >of the tank with a rubberized slosh coat. Has anyone tried this? Is > >there a downside to trying it? > >Thanks. > > > >Carson Cassidy > >Calgary, Alberta > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:57:46 -0600 To: Robert Stone From: cartera CC: "Carson J. Cassidy" , krnet@mailinglists.org, James Sellars Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <39EE551A.F6100FF9@cuug.ab.ca> Robert Stone wrote: > > Netters: A well constructed fuel tank out of composite materiel does not > need any sort of coating. Like at least two members have advised, you are > asking for serious problems with some of these rubberized products. I have > experienced an engine shutdown twice in my flying career and it's a very > uncomfortable position to be in. You do not need to use any foam to make a > tank. Just six sides of thick fiberglass well impregnated with resin then > tape them together. Use fuel, not water to leak check. Water is too thick. > If you can fill a tank with gas and find no leaks, install it. Hello KRNetters, Another method of testing for leaks. Place a balloon over one outlet and blow up the balloon, seal remaining outlet you used for blowing up the balloon. Leave for a few days, if the balloon changes size you have a leak if size remains the same as first blown up, you have got it, install. A lot simpler, cleaner and air is lighter than any liquid. How that? Happy Building! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:43:20 GMT To: cartera@cuug.ab.ca, rlspjs@dashlink.com From: "Jerry Mahurin" Cc: carson.c@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org, jsellars@auracom.com Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: And if the baloon gets bigger..... It means that you did the test on a cold day and then the tank got warm/hot. That actually happened to me. Jerry Lugoff, SC >From: cartera >To: Robert Stone >CC: "Carson J. Cassidy" , krnet@mailinglists.org, >James Sellars >Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks >Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:57:46 -0600 > >Robert Stone wrote: > > > > Netters: A well constructed fuel tank out of composite materiel does >not > > need any sort of coating. Like at least two members have advised, you >are > > asking for serious problems with some of these rubberized products. I >have > > experienced an engine shutdown twice in my flying career and it's a very > > uncomfortable position to be in. You do not need to use any foam to >make a > > tank. Just six sides of thick fiberglass well impregnated with resin >then > > tape them together. Use fuel, not water to leak check. Water is too >thick. > > If you can fill a tank with gas and find no leaks, install it. > >Hello KRNetters, >Another method of testing for leaks. Place a balloon over one outlet and >blow up the balloon, seal remaining outlet you used for blowing up the >balloon. Leave for a few days, if the balloon changes size you have a >leak >if size remains the same as first blown up, you have got it, install. >A lot simpler, cleaner and air is lighter than any liquid. How that? >Happy Building! >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >Calgary, Alberta >Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:10:18 EDT To: myrddin@usa.net, cartera@cuug.ab.ca, rlspjs@dashlink.com From: ACMan5548@aol.com CC: carson.c@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org, jsellars@auracom.com Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <7c.c64441e.27204cba@aol.com> In a reply to this subject a statement was made; "And if the balloon gets bigger..... It means that you did the test o= n=20 a cold=20 day and then the tank got warm/hot.=A0 That actually happened to me." If your balloon test got bigger and smaller as the day gets hotter and=20 colder, there must have been some liquid fuel or something in the tank that=20 vaporized and then condensed again. I do not think the temperature=20 fluctuations, here on earth, would make air alone in a tank expand or=20 contract enough that you could see a change in the test balloon size. I have used a similar balloon testing method on refrigeration systems for=20 years and it works well. Tony Mission Viejo, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:07:11 -0500 To: "cartera" From: "Robert Stone" Cc: "Carson J. Cassidy" , , "James Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <000001c039ef$7e92f0e0$0101a8c0@pavilion> cartera: Your idea about the balloon sounds like an effective test for leaks providing the temperature in the test area is controlled and kept constant. If not the balloon will change size due to temperature change. You are correct, air is lighter than any liquid. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "cartera" To: "Robert Stone" Cc: "Carson J. Cassidy" ; ; "James Sellars" Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:57 PM Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks > Robert Stone wrote: > > > > Netters: A well constructed fuel tank out of composite materiel does not > > need any sort of coating. Like at least two members have advised, you are > > asking for serious problems with some of these rubberized products. I have > > experienced an engine shutdown twice in my flying career and it's a very > > uncomfortable position to be in. You do not need to use any foam to make a > > tank. Just six sides of thick fiberglass well impregnated with resin then > > tape them together. Use fuel, not water to leak check. Water is too thick. > > If you can fill a tank with gas and find no leaks, install it. > > Hello KRNetters, > Another method of testing for leaks. Place a balloon over one outlet and > blow up the balloon, seal remaining outlet you used for blowing up the > balloon. Leave for a few days, if the balloon changes size you have a > leak > if size remains the same as first blown up, you have got it, install. > A lot simpler, cleaner and air is lighter than any liquid. How that? > Happy Building! > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Calgary, Alberta > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:33:49 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#471784123: CORVAIR 110 hp ENGINE Message-Id: <200010180333.e9I3XnH18364@quark.ebay.com> Ok Motorheads,here is a chance for a 110HP 1966. I saw this item for sale at eBayMotors and thought someone might be interested. Mark Jones Title of item: CORVAIR 110 hp ENGINE Seller: russ86 Starts: Oct-17-00 16:54:00 PDT Ends: Oct-24-00 16:54:00 PDT Price: Starts at $25.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=471784123 Item Description: Corvair 110 hp engine in pieces, not running. From 1966 Monza. Good engine if you need cylinder barrels, heads, case, etc. High bidder to pay actual shipping charges. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:25:18 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: Carbs, Carb heat Message-ID: After reading the very complete report by AviationMech@aol.com, I'm reminded that the Ellison web site has a very good treatise on the issue, including an offer of a loaner VIDEO. It will show you that it can and does happen and why. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:52:00 +0200 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: BMW 2 cylinder motorcycle engine as alternative for KR2? Message-ID: Hi Jerry, Richard, and others interested in engine alternatives, I have news on the BMW 2 cylinder motorcycle engine front. I spoke to Rennie de Leeuw on monday. He wrote an article about the subject which will appear in the November issue of Custom Planes. To give you a peek at the whole story as I heard it: Rennie and a friend of his both have Cherries (the Austrian design). Rennie ran a 80HP Limbach up front which peaked at 3400 which he never achieved, so he ended up with even less. On one hot afternoon takeoff he decided that's it, this is not what he had in mind. So they both changed to the 2 cylinder BMW 1100CC fuel injected, emission controlled engine. First they got the electronics (Motronic) for the 90HP (the motor is exactly the same) with the wrong wiring harness. Then they really got into a mess trying to get the 100HP version to work. At the end they realised that the Motronic keeps a memory of events and any one change will only have its final effect after 3 hours. They ended up after lots of work and experimenting and redesigning of exhaust systems with a smooth and cool running and pretty silent 100Hp motor with over 200h on it, including trips to Spain from Holland. They are building yet another Cherry now, and he will again install the same BMW engine. Looking at the favorable pricing (cheaper than Limbach) enormous installed base and decades of expertise (this motorcycle engine has been around from the 1930's), the BMW proposition looks like a good one to me. The fact that it's highly complicated is one to ponder, but one good thing is that the engine management system can run without any of it's sensors functioning (emergency programme) He runs the engine behind a centrifugal clutch which picks up after a certain engine speed, which helps in starting. There's a reduction drive containing gears and it's own lubrication. The reason for using a centrifugal clutch is to dampen engine movement. It also helps to get it started and build momentum. Vibration is not a problem at cruising revs. Maybe Rennie will post these articles on the web some time, but for now I won't be doing any translations. He's not in anyway restrictive about publishing, but I will not intervene. Hope to get more details as needed. Be welcome to ask. I haven't read the article yet, so, while it is o.k. to comment, let's get the facts straight from the author first. Groeten, Peter Nauta p.nauta@wanadoo.nl +31(0)6 51411018 Fax: 020 8663552 http://www.fs2000.nl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:54:39 -0700 To: p.nauta@wanadoo.nl From: Lon V Boothby Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> BMW 2 cylinder motorcycle engine as alternative for KR2? Message-ID: <20001018.205634.-4192081.0.LBoothby@juno.com> I have a two cylinder BMW engine I would sell for a reasonable price to anyone who wants it. Lon Boothby Spokane, WA 509-994-7456 ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:13:10 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: Weight & Balance Message-ID: <20001018.191310.-255281.0.klw1953@juno.com> Hey guys: Just wondering how you performed the weight and balance. Did you place your weight over the seat station as in Tony's book, or did you physically get into the plane and then check the weights? I can't imagine guessing where your weight will center over the seat. The Rand manual says to get in and run the numbers, just wondering how you guy's did it . Thanks--------------------Kenny ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:52:55 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> Re: Weight & Balance Message-ID: <20001019045255.3506.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > The Rand manual says to get in and run the numbers, > just wondering how > you guy's did it . > > Borrow someone's 80 pound child and ask them to sit in your plane while you weigh it. That's much easier than trying to weigh it with a 200 pounder in the seats. :o) ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I had one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:16:45 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Re: Weight & Balance Message-ID: <20001019051645.344.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, Yes, but it is really hard to get that 80 pound kid back out of the plane when you're through. Not to mention the spray on the windshield from making all the airplane noises while you're busy weighing... --- Mike Mims wrote: > > --- Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > > > The Rand manual says to get in and run the > numbers, > > just wondering how > > you guy's did it . > > > > > > Borrow someone's 80 pound child and ask them to sit > in > your plane while you weigh it. That's much easier > than > trying to weigh it with a 200 pounder in the seats. > :o) > > ===== > ........| > .......-^- > ....-/_____\- > ...(O\__o__/O) > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > -----Y2K Bug--- > Yes I had one! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:08:20 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Building a fuel tank Message-ID: <57.c7b0394.271fb194@aol.com> --part1_57.c7b0394.271fb194_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_57.c7b0394.271fb194_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Laheze@aol.com Full-name: Laheze Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:58:06 EDT Subject: Building a fuel tank To: kr-net@mailinglists.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 125 This method of tank building is heavier than an aluminum tank but is a way for you to build the shape you want if you can't weld aluminum or don't want to afford to hire someone to weld it for you. When I have built one fuel tank at a time from fiberglass in the past what I have done is take 3/8" or 1/4" wall thickness (use any wall thickness you have or prefer) high density PVC foam, cut it into vertical walls of desired demensions, hot glue them together to form the box or whatever shape you want, cut bottom pieces with tapers to form angle down to exit valve and hot glue them together and then to the side walls. Once your tank shape is ready prepare the top piece to fit. Now when you are ready to glass it, mix up flox and put it in the square corners vertically and horizontally along the bottom corners using the end of your tongue depressor (popsickle stick) fiberglass the inside of the tank bottom and then up the side walls I use only pure resin with no slurry (micro spheres) on the inside of the tank, I use two layers of bidirectional on the inside let it almost cure and then paint in one or two more layers of pure resin with almost cure between. I have gone back after cure on some of my tanks and painted another layer of resin on the inside. Let all of this cure for a day or so then get the top, fiberglass the inside, side of it let it almost cure paint some more resin on it let it almost cure again however many times you want then let it almost cure again mix wet flox put it around the top edge of the tank and gently put some wet resin around the edges of the lid and carefully place it onto the top of the tank. Press down carefully while laying some light weight items around outside edges just to hold in place or use tape or whatever turns you on. Then take your finger and wipe off the squeeze out flox around the seam while making sure there is flox in the gap. Let this cure for a day or so then sand the outside corners to radius so the fiberglass on the outside will lay down while you apply it from a bottom onto a side or side to a top. I put one layer on the outside with beefup layers in some places where I want to attach an angle bracket for hold down or something like that. I do paint extra resin along the top seam while curing the outside glass and the wall corners if I think it is necessary. One more note: roughen up the outside of a threaded receiver for your fuel valve and flox it into the bottom of the tank while you are fiberglassing the inside of the tank, and do not forget to protect the integral threads from resin. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com --part1_57.c7b0394.271fb194_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:36:08 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Fuel tank building Message-ID: <85.19c5758.271fb818@aol.com> Sorry guys but the 3/8" dimension was supposed to be 3/16" Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:11:29 -0700 To: GoFlySlow2@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> V.W. voltage output Message-ID: <39EE6661.D009D4A6@teleport.com> Chuck, Well, you would really need to hook an ammeter in series with your alternator to see how much current it is putting out. The alternator puts out AC, but I'm not sure at what voltage/current... then it gets converted to DC voltage (12-14V) by a voltage rectifier. The unit I have (from Great Plains) has a finned unit that mounts on the firewall one side gets grounded, and the other plugs into the rectifier. One trick would be to find someone who has one of those clamp on inductive type ammeters which you could just clip onto the battery and see what the current is when under various conditions. I am by no means an expert, but I would try the following approach... Make the following measurements... 1) Engine off, Radio & "etc" electronics on. This will give you a rough idea of the current drain from all your accessories. (Assuming you don't have electronic ignition. 2) Engine running, Radio and "etc" electronics off. This will just be a "datapoint" and might not say anything, as if your battery is charged, presumably the alternator will not be producing a high enough voltage to produce any current. 3) Engine Running, Battery Removed (switched out)... see if the alternator can produce any current. (In some cases, removing the battery may remove the alternator 'field" so this test may or may not show you the same current as in 1) assuming you have the same loading. ------ Another aproach is to figure out how much current each unit is spec'ed to take and add it up and see if it exceeds what your alternator can put out. I believe that the Great Plains alternator can put out around 23-26A at 2300-3200 RPM. (I don't have my notes on what Steve Bennett told me, but I think those figures are close for the unit he sells). Just look for the xxx Amps or XXX mA (milli amps) on the dataplates for the gyro and your radios etc. Or easier, look it up in the manuals. Making sure all this stuff can be fed by the small alternator is one reason I went with the low current Terra Xponder and Com unit... I think the new IIMorrow/UPS units also have pretty low current consumption too. (Compared to the boat anchor avionics in most rental aircraft it is probably 1/3 the current.) -- Regards Ross GoFlySlow2@aol.com wrote: > KR guys, > I don't seem to be adequately charging my 17AH battery. There a three (3) > wires coming out of the V.W. case. > 2 black and 1 red. > I have the 2 black (A.C.? from the engine) wires going to the A.C. input > of the Regulator/ Rectifier. I measured output and confirmed D.C. 12volt > (variable with RPM changes) output from the Reg/Rectifier while disconnected > from the battery. > The on board electronics, Radio, Mode C, electric gyro, ect, easily over > use the available output and end up depleting the battery. Am I missing > something? The 3rd red wire from the case is not hooked up to anything. I'm > fairly familiar with this type of electrical setup in Rotax and Hirth engines. > Is output increased by attaching the third (red) wire to one of the black > A.C. wires (ala 110 volt to 220volt in home wiring?) No engine manual came > with plane. > One other question, in your opinion(s), what's the best way to go to > 2180cc +or- displacement utilizing my current 1835cc engine. > Thanks, > Chuck Scrivner http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/MFM (KR-2 pics) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:42:41 EDT To: rossy@teleport.com From: GoFlySlow2@aol.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> V.W. voltage output Message-ID: Thanks for all the advise re. V.W. electrical output. With a little investigation, armed with an A.C. / D.C. voltmeter, I was able to solve the problem. The V.W. A.C. output was incorrectly wired to the Regulator / Rectifier by the last A/P mechanic at annual, prior to sale. The output for this HAPI 1835cc is stated as 20 Amps. That's pretty minimal for all the electronics, but at least now I'm not sucking it ALL from the battery. Chuck to "Aviationmech@aol" <> putting the A/C output direct to the 12v DC battery, didn't sound like a very good idea. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:56:04 -0700 To: GoFlySlow2@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> V.W. voltage output Message-ID: <39EE70D4.395B5402@teleport.com> Chuck, Glad you found your problem... actually I wasn't suggestting that you hook AC direct to the battery. On my KR, I have two bus bars for 14V. One is the battery, which is isolated by the master switch, and the other is the alternator which can be isolated from the battery by pulling the 30A circuit breaker. So I was thinking along the lines of isolating each DC power source and looking at the current flowing into the bus. -- Ross GoFlySlow2@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for all the advise re. V.W. electrical output. > With a little investigation, armed with an A.C. / D.C. voltmeter, I was able > to solve the problem. The V.W. A.C. output was incorrectly wired to the > Regulator / Rectifier by the last A/P mechanic at annual, prior to sale. The > output for this HAPI 1835cc is stated as 20 Amps. > That's pretty minimal for all the electronics, but at least now I'm not > sucking it ALL from the battery. > Chuck > > to "Aviationmech@aol" < Orma > Aviationmech@aol.com">> > putting the A/C output direct to the 12v DC battery, didn't sound like a very > good idea. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) To: kr2s group From: vincent chrisovergis Subject: carbon or kevlar Message-ID: <20001019153109.832.qmail@web6303.mail.yahoo.com> First of all which is better? I have 20 ydrs. of kevlar 1.2 oz. per yd.I do not have carbon yet.The kevlar is the same strength as 6 oz. glass.Becaus in canada I was told I can't build my plane heaviewr than the gross wt. with passenger. 1 I am building mine as single seater.Hopefully with a synthetic fibre to help save weight.Plus I'm on a diet to drop some weight. But I need to know what is the difference between both. materials.I know kevlar is cheaper.But has anyone figured how much can a person save by using synthetic. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:35:48 -0700 (PDT) To: kr2s group From: vincent chrisovergis Subject: new airfoil Message-ID: <20001019153548.12118.qmail@web6305.mail.yahoo.com> Mark I bought the airfoil plans from you at the kr gathering and was suppose to send dean a check for the plans .I must be using the address that I had but it's not working to get in touch with him. Please can you respond to sending me an address to were I can send a cheque to pay for these plans thanks vince __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:39:26 -0500 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: FRED SMITH Subject: Re: fuel pump location? Message-ID: <39EF23BE.BD3F8A46@bushnell.net> FRED SMITH wrote: > building kr2s with wing tanks and header and corvair engine. was going to just > use 1 fuel pump to get wing gas into header tank. after talking to several at > gathering, I am going with 3 pumps. have 2 wing pumps installed and work great. > Question- if i mount back up pump for motor behind firewall and go directly into > gasolator- does this still allow water and impurities to drop out? should pump go > in engine compartment after gasolator and pull thru it? Does it make any > difference? > > Thanks in advance > Fred Smith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Timothy Brown Subject: wing attachments Message-ID: <20001019165840.77867.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> I just got off the phone with RR and was told that the wing attachment fittings which I purchased from them need to have the holes reamed larger a bit. 1) What have you all done re: this. 2) Does any one have a "bolts" list? Rather than purchase the bolt kit from RR for $108.00 I thought I would get the bolts from A S & S, but nee to know the sizes. If you have a list and could fax it to me that would be great (909) 781-0436.....or scan it in and e-mail me at timwbrown@yahoo.com Boat just about done and have e-mailed Dan Diehl for skin info. Starting to get in the 30s up here in Lake Arrowhead so my epoxy days are numbered. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:21:20 -0500 To: "Timothy Brown" , "Group KR NET" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> wing attachments Message-ID: <000201c039f1$7c889000$0101a8c0@pavilion> Timothy: The holes in the WAF's you got from RR should be 3/l6th inch, if they are not this size, what size are they? In any event don't get smaller bolts, ream the existing holes out to 3/l6th. Why do you need a "bolts list", Just count the holes and buy accordingly. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Brown" To: "Group KR NET" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 11:58 AM Subject: KR> wing attachments > I just got off the phone with RR and was told that the > wing attachment fittings which I purchased from them > need to have the holes reamed larger a bit. > > 1) What have you all done re: this. > > 2) Does any one have a "bolts" list? Rather than > purchase the bolt kit from RR for $108.00 I thought I > would get the bolts from A S & S, but nee to know the > sizes. If you have a list and could fax it to me that > would be great (909) 781-0436.....or scan it in and > e-mail me at timwbrown@yahoo.com > > > Boat just about done and have e-mailed Dan Diehl for > skin info. Starting to get in the 30s up here in Lake > Arrowhead so my epoxy days are numbered. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:31:31 +0100 To: KRNET From: paul eberhardt Subject: Kit for sale Message-ID: <39EEE9A3.640B29DD@ameritech.net> I hate to do this, but I'm just not going to finish it. I've spent the last couple years flying spam cans instead of building. I've got a -2S for sale. It's in the boat stage with spars. The following is included: Complete plans/prints and several issues of the newsletter RAND-ROBINSON WING SKINS!! new in box. Wing attach fittings (installed) Diehl tail dragger mains and a 6" tail wheel Wheels, tires, brakes turbo EA-81 with many automotive extras - not converted for aero yet stick, pedals, all brackets and pulleys for controls Bolt Kit Work tables foam and fiberglass & various miscellaneous items Needed to finish: engine conversion, mount, prop cowl, canopy, turtle deck, empenage panel time Please e-mail me privately @ mailto:peberhardt@lear.com I'm in the Detroit, MI area. I've got about $10k invested and I'd settle for $5,000 for everything. I need the space. PS - I've got a real nice Cessna 152 for sale, too. I'm a Mooney pilot, now. ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************