From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 24 Oct 2000 13:35:23 -0000 Issue 113 Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:35 AM krnet Digest 24 Oct 2000 13:35:23 -0000 Issue 113 Topics (messages 2664 through 2693): Re: Regional Builder Support Groups 2664 by: Greg S Martin Rare information 2665 by: Eduardo Iglesias Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains 2666 by: ACMan5548.aol.com 2670 by: Richard Selix Re: hi from new zealand 2667 by: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) Re: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains 2668 by: Robert Stone 2671 by: cartera 2679 by: Krwr1.aol.com just thinking outloud&online 2669 by: Screwy Squirrel 2680 by: Frank Ross Funny characters ... 2672 by: Albert Pecoraro 2678 by: Frank Ross Funny characters 2673 by: APECORAR.steelcase.com 2674 by: Jerry Mahurin Houston, we have a problem... 2675 by: Mark Langford Re:just thinking /fuel tanks 2676 by: larry flesner To Ream or Not to ream. 2677 by: AviationMech.aol.com bitching 2681 by: Timothy Brown 2684 by: cartera Please Help Me Build My 1st Airplane 2682 by: Micheal Fox 2685 by: Frank Ross KR-net inspiration 2683 by: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) Now a word from Mom 2686 by: BSHADR.aol.com 2689 by: Steven Eberhart Growing Pains-Outgrown Pains 2687 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 2690 by: Richard Parker Interesting item on eBay web site item#476997625: TRW FORGED CORVAIR PISTONS (6) 2688 by: flykr2s.execpc.com Regional builders 2691 by: Oscar Zuniga KR1 2692 by: Oscar Zuniga PRIMER 2693 by: Schmidt, Curtis Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:21:40 -0700 To: durosset@fidnet.com From: Greg S Martin Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Regional Builder Support Groups Message-ID: <20001022.192142.-39846151.0.idrawtobuild@juno.com> On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:19:20 -0500 "The House of D's" writes: > I have a KR1 that is very well built by Keith Campbell in Boone, IA. I saw the 'KR1' and became very interested. I too have a KR1 which is in the garage/shop at home. It was started back in '73 and the wood work was above reproach and used one of the old aviation glues resorsinol, I'm not sure of the spelling. I built a KR1 in the middle 70's as I drew the second set of plans that Ken used for sale. And that is the way I came to know the KR's. Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I came about the possession of this plane in a very strange way. The young man that bought this plane went back to Arkansas. He trailered it out and called me to take a look at it when he returned. There was a real problem with the fire wall (aluminum only, no lpywood and no fiberfrax) and penetrations for controls had light shining through. You could see the engine from under the insturment panel. I told him not to fly this thing until he fixed those items I pointed out but I guess I didn't make a very strong point. He flew it anyway, about 57 hrs. He said it flew very fast and was a real delight to fly. He was cruising around 165 mph with 1600VW and Streba prop. But when winter set in, he wanted me to make the changes I had mentioned. I purchased all the supplies I needed and started. A few weeks later he started a new job, piloting for a pipeline patrol company. He died in a plane wreck while training. I now have the plane. I have replaced the fire wall with 1/4" plywood, SSteel and fiberfarax. I removed the tank that was above the knees and I'm putting the fuel in the wings. The old tank was 8.5 gallons and now I'll have around 15 gallons for a better range. My first KR1 had 18 gallons and I loved it. If your are at all familuar with the Armies Wort Hog tank killer. You may remember the projections on the front of the wing that the gear used for retraction. I did a similar thing for the tanks and used that for faring in the landing gear. I hope to get a little better cruise, but if I don't, that's O K too. If you give me your address, I'll send you some pictures. Well, She said it's time to eat, and I just can't standing missing a meal and it looks it by a wide margin, or should I say girth on me. Talk to you later. Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 1783 Glenwood Court Bakersfield, California 93306 work 661-861-0570, fax 861-0517 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:08:41 -0300 To: "KR-net" From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Cc: Subject: Rare information Message-ID: <009701c03caf$51afe840$941c33c8@EduardoIglesias> ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C03C96.29EE06C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you help? Anybody knows it? "Dear aracuanicos (a mailing list) A while ago I read that those of SAAB used a reduced model =20 but piloteable and witha piston motor, to study the =20 behavior of the =91double delta ' configuration, I believe that =20 for the development of the hunt Draken. I cannot find the one =20 article and would thank that if somebody knows of the topic,help me =20 with information, draws etc. =20 Douglas" Thanks Eduardo Iglesias emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C03C96.29EE06C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:31:54 EDT To: langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: ACMan5548@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains Message-ID: What does 3+AC1 and AC1 mean? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:32:29 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: Richard Selix CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains Message-ID: <39F4843D.1291325A@earthlink.net> Netters: For those that might be interested in calculating the HT and VT volumes, here are the calculations: Tail Volumes: HT area x HT moment / ( Wg. area x chord / 12 ) VT area x VT moment / ( Wg. area x Span) where: : The moments are: The distance, in feet, from the aft-most CG to the 1/4 chord of the HT or VT. Most homebuilt volumes run between .45 and .50 for HT, and .03 to .045 for VT. Cessna 172s' have a HT volume of .58, e.g. Richard Selix San Diego, Ca. mailto:rselix@earthlink.net Mark Langford wrote: > +AD4- I am thinking about increasing the horizontal and vertical stabelizers > about > +AD4- 30 percent larger also the rudder. > > Well, the KR2S tail surfaces are all larger than KR2 surfaces already. Not > lengthwise but chordwise at the root for the horizontal, and both chordwise > and lengthwise for the vertical and rudder. Moving them back another 14+ACI- > will have a noticeable effect on stability and control. I'm too lazy to do > the tail volume coefficient calculations, but I'd say making each side of > the horizontal or the vertical 2+ACI- longer with the longer fuselage would be > about the same thing as making them all 4+ACI- longer with the shorter tail, but > that's purely a guess. For what it's worth, Troy has a C-85 and says he had > too much rudder on his KR2 (see > http://home.hiwaay.net/+AH4-langford/troy/99011812.jpg ), so he actually > shortened it down to the upper hinge leaving the length of the vertical stab > the same (I think), and is happy with the results. Obviously, your mileage > must vary, but I have no idea why. With 140 hp, I suspect I'll need lots of > rudder too, which is why I extended mine a bit in the form of an aerodynamic > balance. For +ACI-normal+ACI- folks, making the fuselage 14+ACI- longer would mean they > could get away with using stock KR2S tail dimension, maybe adding 2+ACI- to each > horizontal stab side, but again, that's a guess, and yet to be proven. I > probably shouldn't be dispensing +ACI-opinions+ACI- about such things anyway, > because that's all they are... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford+AEA-hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/+AH4-langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:22:53 +0200 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Subject: RE: KR> hi from new zealand Message-ID: Hello Philip My first project was and is a KR 2, the construction is the same as the KR 1, I started in 1992 with simple hand tools and built most of my KR with them. Although it will definitely be easier with 20+ clamps, 6 hands, two brains... etc. and all the fancy tools you can get your hands on. The KR is not difficult to build but it does require a lot of work (as we like to call it here in SA "elbow grease") and personal motivation (hence all the boat sections for sale from those who have given up...) Here is South Africa the parts are scarce and I think you will be in the same boat as I am in that respect, this is frustrating and can lead to a quick demise of your project. Get somebody to build with you or get in contact with somebody that is already building to keep you motivated. Or just talk (type) to the best inspiration on the KR that I know about ....... the KR-Net! We will keep you going. Cheers Danny South Africa > -----Original Message----- > From: philip [SMTP:philxxx@xtra.co.nz] > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 6:22 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> hi from new zealand > > hi i got it wrong ...here i go again.....is the KR ONE' easy to build > from plans.......for a first time builder .....email philxxx@xtra.co.nz ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. All opinions expressed are the sender's own and not necessarily that of the employer. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:38:33 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Fw: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains Message-ID: <000001c03cf1$84255d40$0101a8c0@pavilion> ----- Original Message ----- From: +ACI-Robert Stone+ACI- +ADw-rlspjs+AEA-dashlink.com+AD4- To: +ACI-JEAN VERON+ACI- +ADw-n4dd+AEA-email.msn.com+AD4- Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 4:50 PM Subject: Re: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains +AD4- Not being an engineer, I don't know for sure but I think that using a lower +AD4- power setting on take off would solve the problem of running off the runway +AD4- due to torque. Isn't this what the P-51 Mustang had to do. I am sure this +AD4- advice will get a rapid response from all of the self appointed +AD4- engineers/experts on the net who will tell all that I am full of it but I +AD4- really don't care what they think. The remark about never using a hand +AD4- drill really floored me. I used a hand drill to build a KR-1 and a KR-2 and +AD4- one of these airplanes is still flying after over 20 years. If industry +AD4- used a reamer to make every hole they drill to manufacture anything +AD4- including aircraft, they would never get anything done. +AD4- But we have self appointed experts who think that every hole should be +AD4- reamed so it will be a perfect round and a perfect size. I don't think I +AD4- will put anything more on the net, I will just read what comes in from the +AD4- self appointed engineers/experts. Maybe this way the new builders who join +AD4- the net will be less confused. +AD4- By the way the Kr-2 took first prize at the Chino Airshow and fly in back in +AD4- l977 and I still have the trophy presented by Aircraft Spruce and Spec but +AD4- what the hell do I know. +AD4- +AD4- Bob Stone +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- ----- Original Message ----- +AD4- From: +ACI-JEAN VERON+ACI- +ADw-n4dd+AEA-email.msn.com+AD4- +AD4- To: +ACI-Mark Langford+ACI- +ADw-langford+AEA-hiwaay.net+AD4AOw- +ADw-krnet+AEA-mailinglists.org+AD4- +AD4- Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:13 PM +AD4- Subject: Re: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- I am thinking about increasing the horizontal and vertical stabelizers +AD4- about +AD4- +AD4- 30 percent larger also the rudder. I remember a thread some time back +AD4- about +AD4- +AD4- someone who had done this but was waiting to test it before giving +AD4- details. +AD4- +AD4- The original rudder is not big enough for the O-200 . Full power before +AD4- +AD4- about 60 mph will result in an immediate left tyrn even with full right +AD4- +AD4- rudder. Your thoughts? +AD4- +AD4- Jean +AD4- +AD4- ----- Original Message ----- +AD4- +AD4- From: Mark Langford +ADw-langford+AEA-hiwaay.net+AD4- +AD4- +AD4- To: +ADw-krnet+AEA-mailinglists.org+AD4- +AD4- +AD4- Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:04 PM +AD4- +AD4- Subject: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- bob wrote: +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-If I extend the width of my fuselage by 6 inches and extend the main +AD4- spar +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-accordingly so I don't loose any wing area, do i also need to add +AD4- length +AD4- +AD4- to +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-the wings because of the increased whetted area? If I add one 14 inch +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-section to the length of the airframe, should I add additional +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- reinforcement +AD4-and where? +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- I'd say that adding 3+ACI- to each outboard spar would be a matter of +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- preference. The missing 3+ACI- isn't going to make a drastic difference in +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- climb or stall speed, but will improve the +ACI-ride+ACI- slightly in +AD4- turbulence. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- I'd do whatever's convenient. So if you already have your spar +AD4- material, +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- stick with it and make the wing 3+ACI- shorter. If not, get longer spar +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- material. Just don't make those hoaky foam spars 3+ACI- longer. That might +AD4- +AD4- be +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- pushing it (but that's just a gut feeling). +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- As for lengthening the fuselage, I haven't done any kind of analysis at +AD4- +AD4- all, +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- but I personally wouldn't hesistate to make it one bay longer without +AD4- any +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- additional reinforcement. But I wouldn't call that a +ACI-professional +AD4- +AD4- opinion+ACI- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- either. It can't help but make the plane more stable, with a fairly +AD4- +AD4- minimal +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- increase in weight. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- mailto:langford+AEA-hiwaay.net +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/+AH4-langford +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- --------------------------------------------------------------------- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- To post to the list, email: krnet+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- --------------------------------------------------------------------- +AD4- +AD4- To post to the list, email: krnet+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help+AEA-mailinglists.org +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:03:59 -0600 To: Robert Stone From: cartera CC: KRNet Subject: Re: KR> Fw: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains Message-ID: <39F48B9F.78C0BFC7@cuug.ab.ca> Robert Stone & KRnetters, Hey Robert, don't knock yourself, YOU ARE an accomplished builder and KR flyer and that is what counts. Don't use a drill, well just look where it is coming from, I would still be building if I did not use my drill and as for a reamer, only place I used one....is for the big holes in the WAF to mount the outer panel. This is just personal preference and nothing else. Hell, there are just too many KR's flying to get caught up in all this expert crap and crap is all it is. Flame me, who cares, I have a really handy delete key! Robert you have my highest admiration from a fellow KR flyer. Happy building and flying to the true KR lovers!! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:45:54 EDT To: cartera@cuug.ab.ca, rlspjs@dashlink.com From: Krwr1@aol.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Fw: KR+AD4- Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2000 3:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cartera@cuug.ab.ca writes: << id not use my drill and as for a reamer, only place I used one....is for the big holes in the WAF to mount the outer panel. This is just personal preference and nothing else. Hell, there are just too many KR's flying to get caught up in all this expert crap and crap is all it is. Flame me, who cares, I have a really handy delete key! Robert you have my highest admiration from a fellow KR flyer. Happy building and flying to the true KR lovers!! >> Right on Adrian Bill Reents Wildbill (not so wild anymore) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:28:45 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Screwy Squirrel Subject: just thinking outloud&online Message-ID: I just had kind of a random thought occur to me... and I must apologize ahead of time for talking out my ass, as I really haven't thought it through carefully, or checked it against a set of plans or any of those good things you're _supposed_ to do first... Anywho, it goes like this: I've seen a couple of web pages of builders who opt to not use/use a small header tank in favor of just using the wing tanks(I saw one who commented that, in a crash, they'd rather not have gasoline splashed all over - a sentiment I can respect)... but then I think that if you do that, you lose a fair amount of fuel capacity. So, my thought is this: could you extend the wing spars a bit so that you could build bigger wing tanks? I can see two potential problems with this right now: 1) a longer wing spar may not be as able to sustain wing loading as the standard spar, and 2), adding that much fuel to the wing may cause balance problems. The potential benefits are 1) more fuel capacity, and 2) a slightly longer wing possibly providing a more favorable aspect ratio on the wing(any of you aeroengineers out there care to comment on this?). I suppose one could do this even if you decide to keep the header tank, although you may run into weight problems... I apologize if this is nonsense, or if it is completely unoriginal... like I said I haven't had time to think it through carefully. But, I can take criticism as well as anyone... I guess the part I'm most curious about is the aspect ratio question... how much could, say a KR-2S, benefit from having longer wings? +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |John E. Holeman | OSU Computer Science| |754-3450 | OSU Atmospheric Science| +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | |www.orst.edu/~holemanj |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | Are you pondering what I'm pondering? | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:13:33 -0700 (PDT) To: Screwy Squirrel , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> just thinking outloud&online Message-ID: <20001024021333.11229.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> John Holeman asked:... not use/use a small header tank in favor of... could you extend the wing > spars a bit so that you > could build bigger wing tanks? > |John E. Holeman | > OSU Computer Science| > |754-3450 | > OSU Atmospheric Science| John, If you are worried about the safety of a cowl-fuel-tank, why carry more than 6-8 hours of fuel in your wings? Flying safety dictates that you land every 4-6 hrs just to keep your reflexes and thinking straight. I love flying, but I don't think I want to spend over about 4 hours at a stretch in a KR cockpit. Why carry 6-8 hrs of fuel? Keep it light, Keep it uncomplicated (a long word for simple). ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:56:39 -0400 (EDT) To: ACMan5548@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Albert Pecoraro Subject: Funny characters ... Message-ID: <384328539.972331000276.JavaMail.root@web622-wrb.mail.com> Netters: I have been receiving some posts where special characters and punctuation are not interpreted properly. For example, the "greater-than" sign > comes across as +AD4, the "percent" sign % comes across as +AC1 (or something along those lines) ... I'm sure there are others. Interesting enough, I only see this when I read my mail from my Earthlink account (which is web-based). I don't see this in the digest. Albert ------Original Message------ From: ACMan5548@aol.com To: langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org Sent: October 23, 2000 5:31:54 AM GMT Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains What does 3+AC1 and AC1 mean? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:35:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Albert Pecoraro , ACMan5548@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Funny characters ... Message-ID: <20001024013551.14590.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Albert Pecoraro wrote: > Netters: > > I have been receiving some posts where special > characters and punctuation > are not interpreted properly. > > For example, the "greater-than" sign > comes across > as +AD4, the "percent" > sign % comes across as +AC1 (or something along > those lines) ... I'm sure > there are others. > > Interesting enough, I only see this when I read my > mail from my Earthlink > account (which is web-based). I don't see this in > the digest. > > Albert > Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains > > > What does 3+AC1 and AC1 mean? Me too. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:01:00 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: APECORAR@steelcase.com Subject: Funny characters Message-ID: ------Original Message------ From: ACMan5548@aol.com To: langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org Sent: October 23, 2000 5:31:54 AM GMT Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains What does 3+AC1 and AC1 mean? ----------- Netters: I have received some posts where special characters and punctuation were not interpreted properly. I think the +AC1 is the percent symbol. So 3+AC1 is 3% ( 3 percent). I also noticed that the "greater-than" sign, >, comes across as +AD4 (or something along those lines). Interesting enough, I only see this when I read my mail from my Earthlink account (which is web-based). I don't see this in the digest which is from my work-account. Hmmm ... it must have something to do with the editors of the email program you are using, or it could be related to some sort of setting with krnet. I'm not certain. Albert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org Albert Pecoraro Applications Engineer, Sales & Marketing Systems Steelcase Inc. - Transforming the ways people work! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:24:08 GMT To: APECORAR@steelcase.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> Funny characters Message-ID: I am getting the +AD4-....., etc. I am reading it in hotmail.com. Jerry Lugoff, SC >From: APECORAR@steelcase.com >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: KR> Funny characters >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:01:00 -0400 > >------Original Message------ >From: ACMan5548@aol.com >To: langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org >Sent: October 23, 2000 5:31:54 AM GMT >Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR+AD4- Growing Pains > > >What does 3+AC1 and AC1 mean? >----------- > >Netters: > >I have received some posts where special characters and punctuation were >not >interpreted properly. > >I think the +AC1 is the percent symbol. So 3+AC1 is 3% ( 3 percent). > >I also noticed that the "greater-than" sign, >, comes across as +AD4 (or >something along those lines). > >Interesting enough, I only see this when I read my mail from my Earthlink >account (which is web-based). I don't see this in the digest which is from >my >work-account. > >Hmmm ... it must have something to do with the editors of the email program >you are using, or it could be related to some sort of setting with krnet. >I'm >not certain. > >Albert > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > >Albert Pecoraro >Applications Engineer, Sales & Marketing Systems >Steelcase Inc. - Transforming the ways people work! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:41:31 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Cc: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Houston, we have a problem... Message-ID: <003201c03d53$27533bc0$f2de8e18@300emachine> KRNetHeads, We've lost another KRNet administrator. Jeff Scott finally went all the way and quit altogether, after finding some temporary refuge in the digest. Below is what he had to say: "I have much to contribute, but am not willing to defend myself or argue with some knothead over every comment. I don't have the energy for that. The amount of misinformation promulgated on the KRnet is appalling. I don't want to be a part of that. As the KRNet administrator, I should have stepped on a lot more necks rather than allow it to get so far out of hand with the misinformation,bickering and personal attacks." I don't blame him a bit, and have to confess I'm about fed up myself, and feel exactly the same way. KRNet gets this way occasionally. People out there beating their chests, blowing hard, and trying to show the world how much they know (whether or not they know a hammer from a screwdriver, or an aileron from a flap). Of course the major offenders think I'm talking about somebody else here. Between us, we drafted Randy Stein as Jeff's worthy successor. Old-timers will remember him as the original "KRNet Cop". He's an arbitrator by trade, so he's perfect for the job. I sincerely hope he can "clean up this town", before we run the rest of the good folks off. Thanks for all the good work Jeff. We sure do appreciate your contributions while doing a truly thankless job. Your expertise with homebuilts and your tech counselor insight will surely be missed. And you're welcome back anytime... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:28:21 -0500 To: Screwy Squirrel ,krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: Re:just thinking /fuel tanks Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001023202821.007e3a50@mail.midwest.net> I've seen a couple of web pages of builders who >opt to not use/use a small header tank in favor of just using the wing >tanks(I saw one who commented that, in a crash, they'd rather not have >gasoline splashed all over - a sentiment I can respect)... but then I >think that if you do that, you lose a fair amount of fuel capacity. ======================================================================= John, There is more possible volume in the standard wing then you would care to carry fuel. I have tanks in the outer wing panels only and if my math is correct, I'll be able to carry 25 gallon. My tanks run from root to tip and from the rear face of the forward spar back 10 inches. This will give me less C.G. travel than if the tanks went from spar to spar and less of a rear C.G. problem with full fuel. This is not a simple change so think it through from start to finish, i.e. fuel pump(s), line routing, C.G. changes, etc. My project is not yet flying so my system is not proven yet but if Piper and Mooney and Beach can do it, why can't I ???? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:30:02 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: To Ream or Not to ream. Message-ID: <8e.c177166.2726401a@aol.com> Talk about stirring up a hornets nest. First of all I don't suggest that all or even many holes need to be reamed. Perhaps this hole does not need to be reamed. To tell someone to use a reamer rather then a drill is like using a precision ruler verses a yard stick, or a laser level verses a snap line. I said "wait stop, don't drill that hole," because the original concern of the Netter was that he felt that the holes in his Rand supplied WAF's were the wrong size. In fact, I believe the WAF's were supplied intentionally with under size holes so that they could be stepped up using a ream. Jeanette could have been contacted and asked directly, why the WAF's were shipped like that, but I'm sure it was easier to throw the question to the Net and see what you get. "Do as I say, not as I do," mother used to say, The statement means to me that I will never tell you to do something the wrong way, especially if I know the correct way. It means that if you ask for guidance I will give you the best answer to your question, or keep my comments to my self. That's not to say that I have never punched a hole that probably should have been reamed. Nor, am I the all knowing expert. I fly a KR that I finished and first flew in 1984, but that is not a qualification. I don't even want the Netters to consider the 33 years I have spent in aviation as a mechanic. I have spent several years as a trainer for Aviation Mechanics, and it is from this background and experience that I mostly make comments from. If I have the opportunity to share the things that I have learned, I will first always tell you what's right. And then, perhaps I will also tell you other ways to get the job done and let you make the decision. If someone says to drill the thing, the reader might get the impression that it does not matter or that it was the best way to get the job done. I do hope that all Builders Flyers and Dreamers consider this. If you compare the current KR's being built, to the earlier ones, mine especially, you will find that because of this net the quality of the plane is improving greatly. Try not to get caught up in perfection unless that's what you really want (it's time consuming). Always suggest the best way to accomplish a task. All Netters should let reader know that what you are telling them is a suggestion or alternative way to get the job accomplished. If you wish to speak as an authority, qualify your answer (Like Jeanette said or this book this page, etc.), this will enable the requester to be a better judge of the usefulness of your imput into his project. Many opinions and suggestions will surface. Some of them will conflict. Think of your imput as help you are providing the reader. He may or may not like the information you provide. Don't get insulted if your suggestion is preempted with a yes but, by someone else with other experiences. And for the requesters of information, take every suggestion with a grain of salt. Don't perform an operation on your bird just because Joe from Kokomo said so. Remember, measure twice cut once, or measure once and buy twice. Orma Aviationmech@AOL.com Builder and Pilot, KR-2 N110LR, 1984-2000 AP with Inspection Authorization ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:53:29 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Timothy Brown Subject: bitching Message-ID: <20001024025329.96796.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Over the past few weeks I have read a lot of belittling and putting down. I asked a simple question about enlarging WAF holes and some (most) gave good and the best advice. Then putting down and belittling began. Let's respond to the question and not the answer. Everyone/anyone can and should provide input and let the asker decide. In my opinion, this net should not be a place to start measuring each other. In my opinion, respond to the questions and not the answers. And yes, I know opinions are like armpits....we all have them and they all stink...so this is mine. I want to thank all who have responded to questions I have posed and want to encourage responses. Thanks more than you will ever know. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:32:53 -0600 To: Timothy Brown From: cartera CC: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> bitching Message-ID: <39F51F05.F473DB7@cuug.ab.ca> Timothy Brown wrote: > > Over the past few weeks I have read a lot of > belittling and putting down. I asked a simple > question about enlarging WAF holes and some (most) > gave good and the best advice. Then putting down and > belittling began. Let's respond to the question and > not the answer. Everyone/anyone can and should > provide input and let the asker decide. In my > opinion, this net should not be a place to start > measuring each other. In my opinion, respond to the > questions and not the answers. And yes, I know > opinions are like armpits....we all have them and they > all stink...so this is mine. > > I want to thank all who have responded to questions I > have posed and want to encourage responses. > > Thanks more than you will ever know. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org Well said Tim! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 00 22:58:22 MDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Micheal Fox Subject: Please Help Me Build My 1st Airplane Message-ID: <20001024045822.29696.qmail@nwcst288.netaddress.usa.net> Builders & Flyers of KR Aircraft, = OK, I am a "Newbe", but I call on you for help. I dream and plan to bui= ld my 1st kit airplane and the KR looks good to me. I was refered to the KR by = a builder/owner of a different kitplane, which speaks highly of KR. I need = to get in touch with a builder/owner/flyer of a KR in my area. I need to see= , touch & ride in a KR to start to make my dream a reality. I need a local mentor and flying KR in front of me to provide a goal so I will be motiva= ted to build and fly a KR too. I live in Bonfield, Illinois, U.S.A. which is approx. 60 miles South/Southwest of Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A. near Greate= r Kankakee Airport in Kanakakee, Illinois. = Micheal J. Fox RN,BSN (Not The Actor) = 457 Verkler Drive = Bonfield, Illinois, U.S.A. 60913 = (815) 939-4656 = foxyrn@usa.net = Please contact me by E-Mail if you can help me with this quest. = Your Ground Bound Buddy, = Micheal J. Fox ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:06:55 -0700 (PDT) To: Micheal Fox , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Please Help Me Build My 1st Airplane Message-ID: <20001024060655.23567.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Micheal, Here are a few web sites to get you started: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html http://www.geocities.com/krnewsletters/ http://home.earthlink.net/~gryphonflier/usacan.htm http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~cartera/index.html http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/krsig I found them very helpful. Good luck. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:33:45 +0200 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Subject: KR-net inspiration Message-ID: Guys I joined KR-net because of all the support I got from all YOU guys, sure, some opinions are not well thought out (mine included) but that is all they are do not take them to heart. Add them up, filter out the good from the not so good and use you judgement on which is the best idea. As you guys already know some Netter are a wealth of information and these guys are invaluable to the net... and yes, they do make a mistake now and again, every body does, but this is not a reason to roast the guy because of it. Just point out you opinion and let the person asking the question decide which is the best. Please guys lets not loose this tool and the people who make the KR-net what it is. Danny Livingstone South Africa ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. All opinions expressed are the sender's own and not necessarily that of the employer. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:07:18 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Now a word from Mom Message-ID: <13.c71d46c.27268f26@aol.com> KRNetHeads: I'll keep this short, and maybe sweet. Yep it is true. I, Randy Stein, hav= e=20 been hoodwinked into becoming your new Net Mom. Please know that I was=20 number 7 or 8 (too long ago to remember) to sign onto KRNet when Mike Graves= =20 started it. We were excited when we reached 20 members on line. Remember,=20 this was back when computers would go out if your hamster croaked=E2=80=A6 I don't expect to practice tough love, although I sure have the skill (and=20 power) to do so. I hope everyone will have the good sense to be respectful.= =20 Please post questions, or feel free to answer the questions posted. If you=20 see an answer that might need a little "corrective" verbiage to make it more= =20 appropriate, please do so -- again in a polite, thoughtful way. Heck, we al= l=20 make mistrakes, so cut each other some slack -- or at least take three deep=20 breaths before hitting send.=20 Since I am tasked with playing the new sheriff in Dodge, if the circumstance= s=20 call upon me to do so, I shall play the part with gusto. Or, like my Daddy=20 used to say, "I'm gonna give you something to cry about=E2=80=A6" With any=20= luck at=20 all, I can just continue my Rip van Winkle imitation and not pester anyone.=20= =20 I'm kind of lazy too, so you rebels may stand a chance=E2=80=A6just don't pu= sh it. I will try to use the ruler on knuckles off line with any repeat offenders.=20= =20 Failing that, Plan B will be to delete offenders. Now kids, back to the sandbox and play nice=E2=80=A6 Mom BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:51:26 -0500 (CDT) To: BSHADR@aol.com From: Steven Eberhart cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Now a word from Mom Message-ID: Welcome back Randy. Glad to see your six shooters are back in Dodge. Meet you over at the Long Branch. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet/UIUC airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. Special thanks to Dr. Ashok Gopalarathnam and Dr. Michael Selig for some great Sport Aviation airfoils. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:05:07 EDT To: cartera@cuug.ab.ca, rlspjs@dashlink.com From: KR2616TJ@aol.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Growing Pains-Outgrown Pains Message-ID: <6b.b5ef39e.2726d4f3@aol.com> One last thought before I'm outta here. I agree with Jeff, there is way too much misinformation anymore. There's the right way, which is the only way. If it takes more time, so be it. I've been around since the AOL days but this is about enough. I haven't posted much in the last year because I get fired up when good recommendations are attacked because they are too right. It seems like everyone just looks for something in someone's comments to attack. In closing remember, if you wouldn't say it to 400 people in a room, don't say it here. Keep reading. In a message dated 10/23/00 3:06:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cartera@cuug.ab.ca writes: << Don't use a drill, well just look where it is coming from, I would still be building if I did not use my drill >> Adrian, I'm just using you as an example no hard feelings meant. This is an example of how and why the "old guys" like me get frustrated. I didn't say don't use a drill on metal, I said if it's metal, bench drill and ream. If you want to hand drill anything, have at it. I would not. If my comment about never hand drilling floored you.........hope you like the view down there, it's pretty good up here because I'll stand by the comment. Testimony shows that if it looks like an airplane, it'll probably fly.......is it done "right" well, that's your opinion. Is there a right way to do it......hell yes. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:55:37 GMT To: KR2616TJ@aol.com From: "Richard Parker" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Growing Pains-Outgrown Pains Message-ID: Ditto, I've deleted about the last 500 messages without even reading them. People dont seem to have anything more to say thats decent. I guess we've been around too long and heard it all before. I feel bad about the new member/builders though. Although if they really need help I hope that they will contact us directly via our web pages. Rich Parker http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm >One last thought before I'm outta here. I agree with Jeff, there is way >too >much misinformation anymore. There's the right way, which is the only way. >If it takes more time, so be it. I've been around since the AOL days but >this is about enough. I haven't posted much in the last year because I get >fired up when good recommendations are attacked because they are too right. >It seems like everyone just looks for something in someone's comments to >attack. In closing remember, if you wouldn't say it to 400 people in a >room, >don't say it here. > >Keep reading. > > >In a message dated 10/23/00 3:06:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >cartera@cuug.ab.ca writes: > ><< Don't use a drill, well just look where > it is coming from, I would still be building if I did not use my drill >> > > >Adrian, I'm just using you as an example no hard feelings meant. This is >an >example of how and why the "old guys" like me get frustrated. I didn't say >don't use a drill on metal, I said if it's metal, bench drill and ream. If >you want to hand drill anything, have at it. I would not. If my comment >about never hand drilling floored you.........hope you like the view down >there, it's pretty good up here because I'll stand by the comment. >Testimony >shows that if it looks like an airplane, it'll probably fly.......is it >done >"right" well, that's your opinion. Is there a right way to do it......hell >yes. > > > >Dana Overall >2000 KR Gathering host >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:38:17 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#476997625: TRW FORGED CORVAIR PISTONS (6) Message-Id: <200010241238.e9OCcH924879@sisko.ebay.com> Hey Corvair engine heads, I saw this item for sale at eBayMotors, it's a chance to get a good deal on forged pistons. Title of item: TRW FORGED CORVAIR PISTONS (6) Seller: vairparts Starts: Oct-22-00 20:08:15 PDT Ends: Nov-01-00 19:08:15 PST Price: Starts at $189.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=476997625 Item Description: You are bidding on a set of 6 brand new TRW FORGED PISTONS.These are great pistons and are a must for that performance engine.Retail at $299.00 and these can be had for much less.Choose std,.020,.030,.040,or .060.Please see our new online catalog at www.larryscorvair.com On Oct-13-00 at 15:57:29 PDT, seller added the following information: Free Honesty Counters, Image Hosting, Listing Tools, and Message Boards from Andale On Oct-22-00 at 20:08:52 PDT, seller added the following information: Free Honesty Counters, Image Hosting, Listing Tools, and Message Boards from Andale Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:57:54 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Regional builders Message-ID: Darryl wrote: >Looking to see if there is any interest in developing a database of KR >owners, builders and interested people. It would allow us to find >others with common interest in the same geographical area And Lon wrote: >I have often wished there was someone in my area that I could >get some tips from...and maybe there is, I just don't know it. Right you are; you just don't know it. Since I'm on the digest, maybe somebody already responded to this, but if not- there are several sites out there that have these 'finder' features. You click on your state or country, and you get a list of builders/KR owners. I think the KRNet site (http://www.krnet.org) has that, or at least has a link to a site like Mike Mims' that had a fairly up-to-date database. Mike's site is how I came to meet and become friends with KR-head Paul Martin a couple of years ago. Paul lives very close by, but I would never have known it without some digging. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:07:54 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR1 Message-ID: Philip from New Zealand wrote: >hi i am new to the building of planes thing... is the KR ONE >easy to build from plans... for a first time builder ... Again, since I'm on the digest somebody may have already answered this question and I haven't seen it yet, but here's the short answer: if you are a shop type person, fairly handy with tools and comfortable building things, building the KR-1 shouldn't be too difficult. Don't kid yourself, though- it will take several years and several thousand hours to do it, if you're like most builders and you only work on it in your spare time. It's not rocket science, but you have to be somewhat meticulous, patient, and unwilling to compromise on basic structural integrity. And given the overall quality of the Rand-Robinson plans, you have to do a little thinking and guessing in some places. If you are the type who wants to color-by-number or "open the package and assemble parts", the KR probably isn't for you. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 2000 08:32:00 -0700 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: PRIMER Message-ID: <000245A8@kaydon.com> Hey guys: I have a back to business question here! Some of you are in the finishing s= tages of your projects so maybe you can help! (Mark) when I glassed my fin = I didn't use any peel ply or wax paper! Will smooth prime fill the glass we= ave or do I need to do something else? Also, since I've never had any exper= ience with water based polyurethane primers, will this stuff attack the blu= e / green / foams? CURTIS R SCHMIDT CNC TOOLING & PROGRAMMING LARNED KANSAS USA ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************