From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 25 Oct 2000 12:29:52 -0000 Issue 114 Date: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:30 AM krnet Digest 25 Oct 2000 12:29:52 -0000 Issue 114 Topics (messages 2694 through 2723): whatever 2694 by: cartera Returned mail 2695 by: Wade Russell 2696 by: Jim Payne 2699 by: flykr2s.execpc.com Construction Table 2697 by: Ken Burch 2698 by: flykr2s.execpc.com 2700 by: Horn2004.aol.com 2701 by: Schmidt, Curtis 2704 by: Robert Stone 2706 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien NEW RAND-ROBINSON MAILING ADDRESS 2702 by: Frank Ross Re: To Ream or Not to ream. 2703 by: Robert Stone 2721 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Bobby Muse' Address & Phone No. 2705 by: Robert Stone Steel Tube KR2S 2707 by: Carter Pond Re: Regional builders 2708 by: Frank Ross RAND ROBINSON ADDRESS CORRECTION 2709 by: Frank Ross 2711 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien a level idea + water jet 2710 by: rme114.juno.com 2722 by: Ross Youngblood Re: carbon or kevlar 2712 by: Ross Youngblood Re: wing attachments 2713 by: Ross Youngblood 2714 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Fuel Tanks 2715 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Looks like bondo 2716 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Facet Electronic Fuel Pump 2717 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Insurance etc. 2718 by: Ross Youngblood Re: WIVES!!! 2719 by: Ross Youngblood Re: just thinking outloud&online 2720 by: Ross Youngblood bolt torque specs 2723 by: Bob Smith Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:30:27 -0600 To: Dana Overall From: cartera CC: "krnet@mailinglists.org" Subject: whatever Message-ID: <39F5B923.E48388C4@cuug.ab.ca> Dana & KRnetters, Sensed a bit of off color feeling in what I said, sorry for that Dana. You have always dispensed good common sense advise and I have admired that. Tools, each has a proper way to use it and whatever it is metal or fiberglass or whatever. We should have a general knowledge of how these tools are used, how to jig things which is always simplification. Sorry, misread some of it, me forgiven????????? Happy Building and Flying guys, -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:44:23 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Wade Russell Subject: Returned mail Message-ID: <20001024174423.22638.qmail@web6203.mail.yahoo.com> I sent away for the information on the KR-2S. However my mail came back returned stating that there is no forwarding address on file. I checked my address on my letter and it shows the same as the web site. Is there an address to email KR about this? I really wish they could take credit cards! lol Any input would be helpful. Wade Russell In S.A., TX. Ya'all! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:15:56 -0400 To: From: "Jim Payne" Subject: RE: KR> Returned mail Message-ID: Wade, The address I used a month ago was the one from the Kitplanes directory for Plansbuilt aircraft: Rand-Robinson Engineering, Inc. 7071 Warner Ave #F (PMB 724) Huntington Beach, CA 92647 PH: 714/898-3811 Fax: 714/890-1658 I noticed after I sent my check to this address that the address on their web site was different. I assumed that kitplanes was wrong and I was expecting my mail to be returned. I just don't think they have updated their web site in a long time! Jim Payne jim@manufacturingconcepts.com -----Original Message----- From: Wade Russell [mailto:warm31@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:44 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Returned mail I sent away for the information on the KR-2S. However my mail came back returned stating that there is no forwarding address on file. I checked my address on my letter and it shows the same as the web site. Is there an address to email KR about this? I really wish they could take credit cards! lol Any input would be helpful. Wade Russell In S.A., TX. Ya'all! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:29:01 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: Subject: Returned mail Message-Id: <200010241929.e9OJT1Q41623@pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net> At the KR Gathering last month, Jeanette announced that she had closed the office they were in and is now operating the business from her home. I do not have the new address or phone number. Maybe someone who reads this can advise us as to what it is. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:18:52 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ken Burch Subject: Construction Table Message-ID: <39F5E09B.13E0A99A@bellsouth.net> Just got my plans for KR1B and it looks like I build the table first of two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 in. partical board. This surface will need to be a straight plane in order to avoid building warps into frames and wings. My question is how is this done and how close does it have to be. Thanks in advance men. Ken Burch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:26:01 -0500 (CDT) To: Ken Burch From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table Message-Id: <200010241926.e9OJQ1x25726@pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net> Ken, The simplest way to make your table perfectly level is to drill holes in the bottom of each table leg (I made mine from 2x4's) and insert a flush nut. I think I used 3/8". Then insert a hex head 3/8 x 3" bolt into the leg. You then take a level and adjust the bolts accordingly. Very simple to do. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > Just got my plans for KR1B and it looks like I build the table first of > two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 in. partical board. This surface will need to be a > straight plane in order to avoid building warps into frames and wings. > My question is how is this done and how close does it have to be. > Thanks in advance men. > Ken Burch > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:32:45 EDT To: kenburch@bellsouth.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table Message-ID: <9.c325c9b.27273ddd@aol.com> In a message dated 10/24/00 2:19:27 PM, kenburch@bellsouth.net writes: <> Precision is important in this phase of construction. Make it straight! You'll have plenty of other opportunities to screw up the alignment down the road in the building process. One tip which might be helpful, considering the quality of dimensional lumber these days, is instead of building the table from 2X6 (or other sizes) try building it from steel framing materials. Most Home Depot type stores now carry steel studs and joists. They screw together easily and will give you a dead-on straight frame to screw your MDF or particle board to. Once assembled, it will be just as strong as, or stronger, than your typical wood-framed table. I'd recommend using the 2X6 steel. You might also want to add some threaded table leg adjusters to the table legs, because it needs to be level in all directions. Some people just shim with wood and then add a blob of Bondo to secure it to the floor. If it moves around, it's probably not going to remain level very long. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 2000 14:49:00 -0700 To: "flykr2s@execpc.com" , "Ken Burch" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Cc: "krnet@mailinglists.org" Subject: RE: KR> Construction Table Message-ID: <00024934@kaydon.com> I built mine like Mark did, I did the same for my models for years now, wor= ks great! You might also check it occasionally during the building process= , some tables tend to sag, twist or move around after time / kicking/ parts= glued to the table etc. Good luck! CURTIS R SCHMIDT CNC TOOLING & PROGRAMMING LARNED KANSAS USA -----Original Message----- From: flykr2s@execpc.com [mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 3:24 PM To: Ken Burch Cc: cschmidt@kaydon.com; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table Ken, The simplest way to make your table perfectly level is to drill holes in the bottom of each table leg (I made mine from 2x4's) and insert a flush nut. I think I used 3/8". Then insert a hex head 3/8 x 3" bolt into the leg. You then take a level and adjust the bolts accordingly. Very simple to do. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > Just got my plans for KR1B and it looks like I build the table first of > two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 in. partical board. This surface will need to be a > straight plane in order to avoid building warps into frames and wings. > My question is how is this done and how close does it have to be. > Thanks in advance men. > Ken Burch > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:22:18 -0500 To: , , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table Message-ID: <001a01c03e00$7e9cc7e0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Steve Horn: Dam good advice,. The guy you advised, if he follows will end up with a very strait and strong work table that will last for many years. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:32 PM Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table > > In a message dated 10/24/00 2:19:27 PM, kenburch@bellsouth.net writes: > > < two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 in. particle board. This surface will need to be a > straight plane in order to avoid building warps into frames and wings. > My question is how is this done and how close does it have to be.>> > > Precision is important in this phase of construction. Make it straight! > You'll have plenty of other opportunities to screw up the alignment down the > road in the building process. > > One tip which might be helpful, considering the quality of dimensional lumber > these days, is instead of building the table from 2X6 (or other sizes) try > building it from steel framing materials. Most Home Depot type stores now > carry steel studs and joists. They screw together easily and will give you a > dead-on straight frame to screw your MDF or particle board to. Once > assembled, it will be just as strong as, or stronger, than your typical > wood-framed table. I'd recommend using the 2X6 steel. > > You might also want to add some threaded table leg adjusters to the table > legs, because it needs to be level in all directions. Some people just shim > with wood and then add a blob of Bondo to secure it to the floor. If it moves > around, it's probably not going to remain level very long. > > Steve Horn > horn2004@aol.com > Dallas, TX > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:15:36 -0700 To: "Robert Stone" ,, , From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: Re: KR> Construction Table Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20001024171536.0074b25c@localaccess.com> Netters, I have an 18' construction table in my shop that is made with two 10" high I-beam type floor joists. It is built with bulkheads and a particle board deck, all assembled with sheet rock screws. This bench sits on 2 sturdy saw horses and is leveled with shims. This bench is strong, straight and inexpensive to build. Regards, Tracy O'Brien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:13:52 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: NEW RAND-ROBINSON MAILING ADDRESS Message-ID: <20001024211352.10075.qmail@web4704.mail.yahoo.com> Just talked to Jeanette on the phone. She moved down the street but the post office has not forwarded some of her mail. She has the SAME PHONE NUMBER: (714) 898-3811 NEW ADDRESS: Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc 7071 Warner Ave #F Huntington Beach, CA 92647 Hope I got it all right. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:14:18 -0500 To: "KRNet" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> To Ream or Not to ream. Message-ID: <010501c03dff$8933c4c0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Ken Rand designed the KR-1 and the KR-2 in such a way that it could be built using simple hand tools. I made all of the metal parts on my KR-1 with a hand drill, Hack Saw, and a file. This is the airplane that is owned by a lady by the name of marcella Glass and she is still flying it the last time I heard. Ken Rand was a genius, I know that after the first month that I knew him. He designed the best performing aircraft in the world in it's class. So far as I am concerned it had no equal in price, ease of building and performance. I think the saying "Best bang for the buck" was invented for the KR-1 & 2. The last thing that I would like to say is this. We, the experienced builders need to stop all the disagreements and bickering because it defeats the purpose of the KRNet. By that I mean, new builders who are looking for answers to questions don't know who to believe and end up more confused than as they has not seen anything on the Net. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: KR> To Ream or Not to ream. > Talk about stirring up a hornets nest. First of all I don't suggest that all > or even many holes need to be reamed. Perhaps this hole does not need to be > reamed. To tell someone to use a reamer rather then a drill is like using a > precision ruler verses a yard stick, or a laser level verses a snap line. I > said "wait stop, don't drill that hole," because the original concern of the > Netter was that he felt that the holes in his Rand supplied WAF's were the > wrong size. In fact, I believe the WAF's were supplied intentionally with > under size holes so that they could be stepped up using a ream. Jeanette > could have been contacted and asked directly, why the WAF's were shipped like > that, but I'm sure it was easier to throw the question to the Net and see > what you get. > "Do as I say, not as I do," mother used to say, The statement means to me > that I will never tell you to do something the wrong way, especially if I > know the correct way. It means that if you ask for guidance I will give you > the best answer to your question, or keep my comments to my self. That's not > to say that I have never punched a hole that probably should have been > reamed. Nor, am I the all knowing expert. I fly a KR that I finished and > first flew in 1984, but that is not a qualification. I don't even want the > Netters to consider the 33 years I have spent in aviation as a mechanic. I > have spent several years as a trainer for Aviation Mechanics, and it is from > this background and experience that I mostly make comments from. If I have > the opportunity to share the things that I have learned, I will first always > tell you what's right. And then, perhaps I will also tell you other ways to > get the job done and let you make the decision. If someone says to drill the > thing, the reader might get the impression that it does not matter or that it > was the best way to get the job done. I do hope that all Builders Flyers and > Dreamers consider this. If you compare the current KR's being built, to the > earlier ones, mine especially, you will find that because of this net the > quality of the plane is improving greatly. Try not to get caught up in > perfection unless that's what you really want (it's time consuming). Always > suggest the best way to accomplish a task. All Netters should let reader > know that what you are telling them is a suggestion or alternative way to get > the job accomplished. If you wish to speak as an authority, qualify your > answer (Like Jeanette said or this book this page, etc.), this will enable > the requester to be a better judge of the usefulness of your imput into his > project. Many opinions and suggestions will surface. Some of them will > conflict. Think of your imput as help you are providing the reader. He may > or may not like the information you provide. Don't get insulted if your > suggestion is preempted with a yes but, by someone else with other > experiences. And for the requesters of information, take every suggestion > with a grain of salt. Don't perform an operation on your bird just because > Joe from Kokomo said so. Remember, measure twice cut once, or measure once > and buy twice. > > Orma > Aviationmech@AOL.com > Builder and Pilot, KR-2 N110LR, 1984-2000 > AP with Inspection Authorization > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:24:27 -0700 To: Robert Stone From: Ross Youngblood CC: KRNet , AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> To Ream or Not to ream. Message-ID: <39F698BB.49FA9E98@teleport.com> Robert, Thanks for that post! (From a hacksaw drill and file builder) -- Ross Robert Stone wrote: > Ken Rand designed the KR-1 and the KR-2 in such a way that it could be built > using simple hand tools. I made all of the metal parts on my KR-1 with a > hand drill, Hack Saw, and a file. This is the airplane that is owned by a > lady by the name of marcella Glass and she is still flying it the last time > I heard. Ken Rand was a genius, I know that after the first month that I > knew him. He designed the best performing aircraft in the world in it's > class. So far as I am concerned it had no equal in price, ease of building > and performance. I think the saying "Best bang for the buck" was invented > for the KR-1 & 2. > The last thing that I would like to say is this. We, the experienced > builders need to stop all the disagreements and bickering because it defeats > the purpose of the KRNet. By that I mean, new builders who are looking for > answers to questions don't know who to believe and end up more confused than > as they has not seen anything on the Net. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:30 PM > Subject: KR> To Ream or Not to ream. > > > Talk about stirring up a hornets nest. First of all I don't suggest that > all > > or even many holes need to be reamed. Perhaps this hole does not need to > be > > reamed. To tell someone to use a reamer rather then a drill is like using > a > > precision ruler verses a yard stick, or a laser level verses a snap line. > I > > said "wait stop, don't drill that hole," because the original concern of > the > > Netter was that he felt that the holes in his Rand supplied WAF's were the > > wrong size. In fact, I believe the WAF's were supplied intentionally with > > under size holes so that they could be stepped up using a ream. Jeanette > > could have been contacted and asked directly, why the WAF's were shipped > like > > that, but I'm sure it was easier to throw the question to the Net and see > > what you get. > > "Do as I say, not as I do," mother used to say, The statement means to me > > that I will never tell you to do something the wrong way, especially if I > > know the correct way. It means that if you ask for guidance I will give > you > > the best answer to your question, or keep my comments to my self. That's > not > > to say that I have never punched a hole that probably should have been > > reamed. Nor, am I the all knowing expert. I fly a KR that I finished and > > first flew in 1984, but that is not a qualification. I don't even want > the > > Netters to consider the 33 years I have spent in aviation as a mechanic. > I > > have spent several years as a trainer for Aviation Mechanics, and it is > from > > this background and experience that I mostly make comments from. If I > have > > the opportunity to share the things that I have learned, I will first > always > > tell you what's right. And then, perhaps I will also tell you other ways > to > > get the job done and let you make the decision. If someone says to drill > the > > thing, the reader might get the impression that it does not matter or that > it > > was the best way to get the job done. I do hope that all Builders Flyers > and > > Dreamers consider this. If you compare the current KR's being built, to > the > > earlier ones, mine especially, you will find that because of this net the > > quality of the plane is improving greatly. Try not to get caught up in > > perfection unless that's what you really want (it's time consuming). > Always > > suggest the best way to accomplish a task. All Netters should let reader > > know that what you are telling them is a suggestion or alternative way to > get > > the job accomplished. If you wish to speak as an authority, qualify your > > answer (Like Jeanette said or this book this page, etc.), this will enable > > the requester to be a better judge of the usefulness of your imput into > his > > project. Many opinions and suggestions will surface. Some of them will > > conflict. Think of your imput as help you are providing the reader. He > may > > or may not like the information you provide. Don't get insulted if your > > suggestion is preempted with a yes but, by someone else with other > > experiences. And for the requesters of information, take every suggestion > > with a grain of salt. Don't perform an operation on your bird just > because > > Joe from Kokomo said so. Remember, measure twice cut once, or measure > once > > and buy twice. > > > > Orma > > Aviationmech@AOL.com > > Builder and Pilot, KR-2 N110LR, 1984-2000 > > AP with Inspection Authorization > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:26:50 -0500 To: "KRNet" , "Richard Mc Call" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: Bobby Muse' Address & Phone No. Message-ID: <002801c03e01$200a28c0$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C03DD7.3639E240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can any of you net heads help with this. I don't have it but some of = you guys must. If so reply direct to richardmccall@earthlink.net. He = needs the info. Bob Stone ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard Mc Call=20 To: Robert L. Stone=20 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:46 AM Subject: Bobby Muse' Address & Phone No. BOB, Would see if you could locate Bobby's address and phone number. He = lives or did live outside the Austin area in one of the smaller = townships. I thought I had it but I don't and he hasn't answered any of = his e-mails. Rich ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C03DD7.3639E240-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:49:48 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Carter Pond Subject: Steel Tube KR2S Message-ID: <39F6666C.5F17A2AB@home.com> Has anyone considered a steel tube frame with Fiberglass or kevlar skins based on the KR2S design? Several of my Local EAA group are interested in this direction and are looking for educated advice/Experience. We would stay with the same wing Spruce/foam concept. Possibly adding a Cont. O-200 to satisfy the quest for speed if the numbers work out. With the new wing design were looking for a high end cruise speed. For the purest out there one member of our group built and flies a KR1 Beauty! Darren Pond Tool and Die Maker/want to be KR2S builder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:44:33 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Regional builders Message-ID: <20001025024433.17499.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Oscar & others, Albert Pecoraro at: http://home.earthlink.net/~gryphonflier/soarindex.htm has a great site with lists of KR builders and flyers world wide, maybe even outer space (you have to meet Albert). Anyway, it's a very good site and a good place to enter your name etc. to find out who's where. Check it out. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:53:59 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: RAND ROBINSON ADDRESS CORRECTION Message-ID: <20001025025359.14743.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Payne wrote: > Wade, > > The address I used a month ago was the one from the > Kitplanes directory for > Plansbuilt aircraft: > > Rand-Robinson Engineering, Inc. > 7071 Warner Ave #F (PMB 724) > Huntington Beach, CA 92647 > > PH: 714/898-3811 Fax: 714/890-1658 > > Jim Payne > jim@manufacturingconcepts.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wade Russell [mailto:warm31@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:44 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> Returned mail > > > I sent away for the information on the KR-2S. > However > my mail came back returned stating that there is no > forwarding address on file...Any input would be > helpful. Wade Russell In S.A., TX. Ya'all! Jim, You have the right address. I have to correct my earlier statement. I forgot the PMB (Postal Mailbox) when I gave the address earlier. I dont think it matters which way you put it, but Mrs Rand did tell me it was Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc, PMB 724 7071 Warner Ave #F Huntington Beach, CA 92647 Sorry about that, thanks Jim ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:55:39 -0700 To: Frank Ross ,krnet@mailinglists.org From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: Re: KR> RAND ROBINSON ADDRESS CORRECTION Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20001024215539.0074a3cc@localaccess.com> > >Jim, >You have the right address. I have to correct my >earlier statement. I forgot the PMB (Postal Mailbox) >when I gave the address earlier. >I dont think it matters which way you put it, but Mrs >Rand did tell me it was >Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc, >PMB 724 >7071 Warner Ave #F >Huntington Beach, CA 92647 Netters, The PMB stands for private mail box and the Post office is quite unhelpful if you don't get one of these addresses correct. Tracy O'Brien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:15:16 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: rme114@juno.com Subject: a level idea + water jet Message-ID: <20001024.211526.-447049.2.rme114@juno.com> I find this worked well when leveling a work table. 1/2" diameter clear plastic tubing , 20 feet long with plugs for both ends and a bottle of nice red wine. Attach the ends of your tubing to 2 corners of the table so its like a big "U". fill tubing with the wine to within an inch or two of the top. The red levels of each end will show level more accurate than a 4' carpender's level, especially over a 16' distance. Move one end around to check all corners and along the edges for level too. Then plug the ends to save for rechecking down the road. Always have the plugs out when useing. Also for anyone interrested, I have access to an O-MAX computerized water jet , cuts pretty much anything and no heat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:28:03 -0700 To: rme114@juno.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> a level idea + water jet Message-ID: <39F69993.25924D3C@teleport.com> I used the water level during my project for the following: 1) Leveling the work table. 2) Setting the dihedral on the wing spars. 3) Truing up the inverted "boat" before joining the two sides together 4) Leveling the "boat" in the KR-kart before doing various measurements 5) Setting the angle of incidence 6) Setting the washout/twist of the wings 7) Jigging the wings for wing construction. Very useful... I have to add that there was one nifty tip from that PBS series on homebuilt airplanes, if you use wine, not only can you drink it, but it keeps alge from growing in the tube. I just used plain water and blue food coloring. -- Ross rme114@juno.com wrote: > I find this worked well when leveling a work table. 1/2" diameter > clear plastic tubing , 20 feet long with plugs for both ends and a bottle > of nice red wine. Attach the ends of your tubing to 2 corners of the > table so its like a big "U". fill tubing with the wine to within an inch > or two of the top. The red levels of each end will show level more > accurate than a 4' carpender's level, especially over a 16' distance. > Move one end around to check all corners and along the edges for level > too. Then plug the ends to save for rechecking down the road. Always > have the plugs out when useing. Also for anyone interrested, I have > access to an O-MAX computerized water jet , cuts pretty much anything > and no heat. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:30:23 -0700 To: vincent chrisovergis From: Ross Youngblood CC: kr2s group Subject: Re: KR> carbon or kevlar Message-ID: <39F68C0F.6BD1BA1@teleport.com> Vincent, I used Kevlar... it's expensive stuff, but if you have it already... It is TOUGH to cut, and I'm not sure what the peel strength off of the spar caps would be. I jusr used Kevlar or the upper deck. It is much more flexible than glass or carbon fiber, and is recommended for cowlings as it has good sound absorbsion qualities. -- Ross vincent chrisovergis wrote: > First of all which is better? I have 20 ydrs. of > kevlar 1.2 oz. per yd.I do not have carbon yet.The > kevlar is the same strength as 6 oz. glass.Becaus in > canada I was told I can't build my plane heaviewr > than the gross wt. with passenger. 1 I am building > mine as single seater.Hopefully with a synthetic fibre > to help save weight.Plus I'm on a diet to drop some > weight. > But I need to know what is the difference between > both. materials.I know kevlar is cheaper.But has > anyone figured how much can a person save by using synthetic. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:36:48 -0700 To: Timothy Brown From: Ross Youngblood CC: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> wing attachments Message-ID: <39F68D90.1296867C@teleport.com> Hmmm... Timothy Brown wrote: > I just got off the phone with RR and was told that the > wing attachment fittings which I purchased from them > need to have the holes reamed larger a bit. > > 1) What have you all done re: this. I built my own fittings... the best method is to purchase or borrow the proper size reamer bit and ream the holes to size when you set the dihedrial. I understand that regular drill bits create a slightly oval hole, and reaming gives you a better solution. In my case I just drilled mine. > 2) Does any one have a "bolts" list? Rather than > purchase the bolt kit from RR for $108.00 I thought I > would get the bolts from A S & S, but nee to know the > sizes. If you have a list and could fax it to me that > would be great (909) 781-0436.....or scan it in and > e-mail me at timwbrown@yahoo.com Buy a Wicks catalog, the older ones used to have the entire KR parts list inside including a breakdown of the bolts. However... I found that many of them specificly the wing attach fittings and prop and engine mount bolts were ones where I ended up purchasing multiple sizes before I got a good fit. Tony Bengelis' books have a real good write up on how to use a depth measurement to order the right bolts... of course I didn't do that... I just ordered my bolts in small batches... however I never have enough AN-3 -2,3,5,7,10 bolts, and have too many -12,13,14 just seems to work out that way in my case. I would recommend buying one of the bolt kits that comes with a container, but from my perspective of having been building for 12 years it seems like 20/20 hindsight. -- Regards Ross > > Boat just about done and have e-mailed Dan Diehl for > skin info. Starting to get in the 30s up here in Lake > Arrowhead so my epoxy days are numbered. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:49:05 -0700 To: Mike Mims From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> wing attachments Message-ID: <39F69071.CBBD6B64@teleport.com> Mike Mims wrote: > << > purchase the bolt kit from RR for $108.00>>> > > RRs price is not that bad, I promise you I spent twice > that trying to size them myself. Me too... although you can pay lots more for shipping by ordering smaller batches over a longer period of time... $30 here, $40 there.... -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:50:09 -0700 To: AviationMech@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: n4dd@email.msn.com, myrddin@usa.net, cartera@cuug.ab.ca, rlspjs@dashlink.com, carson.c@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org, jsellars@auracom.com Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Tanks Message-ID: <39F690B1.73ABF644@teleport.com> AviationMech@aol.com wrote: > 100LL has a blue tint and will stain anywhere it leaks from. > This is VERY true... although you could start with water with food coloring and work your way up to 100LL... -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:51:41 -0700 To: Michael Meyer From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Looks like bondo Message-ID: <39F6910D.1986FBD1@teleport.com> Mike, My only comment is to be careful not to sand into the glass itself with the sander. It will be a LOONG slow process... - Ross Michael Meyer wrote: > KR types: > > Just bought a KR project and it appears that the previous owner slobbered up the glass work with bondo. It doesn't look like too bad, but I'd like to get it off, if possible. Anyone got any time saving suggestions? I got the random orbital on it, but it looks to be a looooong, slow process. Should I live with, or get it off? > > Also, this baby has some hanger rash on some of the glass (chips, punctures, etc). Anyone know of a decent website (or other literature) that might offer some insight on glass repair? > > Thanks a million, > > Mike Meyer > mpmeyer@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:55:58 -0700 To: John and Janet Martindale From: Ross Youngblood CC: To post messages to the new KRNet Subject: Re: KR> Facet Electronic Fuel Pump Message-ID: <39F6920E.ED64939D@teleport.com> John, Well.... I'm not an expert, but I think that the pumps are a big electromagnet which switches on and off, and that the outer casing is just there to hold everything together... so, I think you might get away with removing some material... now... how are you going to replace, or inspect this pump if you glass it in? Say for example if it gets clogged? I'm just thinking Murphy's law here. -- Ross John and Janet Martindale wrote: > Hi folks > > I have installed a Facet electronic fuel pump in the lower wing root to pump fuel from my wing tanks. Problem is that it protrudes a little and leaves a weeny bump in an otherwise smooth fairing and I cannot get it to go further down into the root to lie flush. I was thinking of grinding off one corner of the pump a little. Does anyone have experience with the internal construction of these pumps?. Could I take off about 1/8" on one corner only without causing a leak? There seems to be a fair bit of pressed steel in the pump external cover in that area...some of which I hope can be safely removed.....how do those sneaky sealed pumps work anyhow?? > > See Ya Aussie John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:01:08 -0700 To: Kenneth L Wiltrout From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Insurance etc. Message-ID: <39F69343.2C0DB975@teleport.com> Ken, I have casualty and theft (non flyable) coverage, my KR is valued at $15,000, and the policy has a $500 deductable (I believe). I wanted my engine and radio's replaced if the KR ever was destroyed in the hangar. This is added to my 1 million liability coverage that my airport wanted when I rented a hangar.... all for about $430/yr. However this is storage/build only coverage... as soon as I get ready for taxi tests, the flight coverage goes to $1100/yr or so to add the liability coverage in flight.... I don't think I have full HULL coverage, that is to say, that if I damage the aircraft in an in-flight or in-motion accident, I wasn't particularlly worried about replacing the plane, I figured I could re-build... however, if a tornado, or some bozo (besides me) messed up my hangar, I didn't want to start from scratch. -- Regards Ross Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > Since N6399U is complete except for the weight & bal. and the FAA > preflight inspection, I was wondering what others paid for Hull > insurance. Also,since I haven't really checked into it yet, do most life > insurance policy's that were in force prior to the start of building > cover the pilot's family in the event of a crash? > > Thanks-----------Kenny > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:06:18 -0700 To: "Schmidt, Curtis" From: Ross Youngblood CC: "krnet@mailinglists.org" Subject: Re: KR> WIVES!!! Message-ID: <39F6947A.1CEF65EE@teleport.com> Curtis, I was going to complain about the lack of carrage returns in your email= , but found that netscape is smart enough to insert them on the reply so I could read your message.= Scary story... I'm glad my plane and engine are bolted together! "Schmidt, Curtis" wrote: > Hey guys: > Just dropping a word to the folks that have wives, first of all I had t= o "convert" my hanger/shop back to a garage last week so we could have a = (garbage) garage sale, this meant my airplane had to find a new home for = a few days! Luckily the house next door just became vacant so I managed t= o get a key and put MOST of the airplane in their garage! The wing spars= went to the basement along with a few odds and ends like tools, bolt org= anizers and such. All was looking pretty good except I just didn't have a= place for the 1834 VW, besides, its not the easiest thing to move around= so I just rolled it back to a corner and didn't think much more about it= ! > Well being the supportive husband that I THINK I am, I proceeded to hel= p set up all the "stuff" the 'OL lady thought we didn't need anymore! (mu= st say I agreed with her on the things she chose) all was looking good > Thursday evening when we decided we'd had enough. > Friday morning comes and I leave for work confident she could handle th= e sale along with her sister. Chose not to put in the mighty overtime (w= hich pays for my airplane) to get home and help the little lady! (remembe= r guy's, I'm SUPPORTIVE!!!!!) now when I get home I'm met with a plethora= of people looking for the ultimate deal, the wife said "the sales going = very well and someone even bought that engine you had put out!!!" believe= me folks, she had my undivided attention at this point!!!! I (calmly) as= ked "who bought it?" luckily we live in a very small town and since my wi= fe is disabled she goes to coffee/gossip hour every day! She knows everyb= ody! Soooooooo now I know who has my little engine and proceed to his hou= se to see what I could do to get it back. I pulled up in the drive and su= re enough, the garage door was open and there sat a "sand rail" the picku= p was there also with my/his power plant sitting in the back! > Now I'm not the most social guy around but when a guy steps out of the = house and says "I was wondering how long it would take for you to show up= , you want a beer?" HE now had my undivided attention! > With a smirk on his face he came out and leaned on the truck, bet your = looking for that aren't you? He said, I asked him just how much he paid f= or the engine, he said he got a hell of a deal! The kind you see on the t= raveling antic show on TV!!! I said I'm sure you did but there has been a= mistake, the wife wasn't supposed to sale it! he said sounds like we hav= e a problem! I just responded with a simple "YEP" > Well needles to say I offered to buy it back for what he paid($100.00) = and he agreed with one stipulation, that was that I help him build an eng= ine for his car since this was all new to him! I agreed with one more sti= pulation and that was that we do it at his house and that he buys the bee= r! We proceeded to write it in stone!(hand shake) and loaded MY engine ba= ck in my truck! > > The moral of this story is even when things are looking grim with your = KR project something good usually comes out of it, it could be just a co= ld beer or a cold beer and a new friend! > > CURTIS R SCHMIDT > CNC TOOLING & PROGRAMMING > KANSAS USA > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:12:38 -0700 To: Screwy Squirrel From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> just thinking outloud&online Message-ID: <39F695F6.EC08C92D@teleport.com> Hold on... if you build the tanks per PLANS you get plenty of fuel. I got 11 gallons PER wing for a total of 22 gallons, add the 5 gallon header tank, and I have way more fuel than I need. I think if you do the small one bay fuel tank you could get 6-7 gallons per wing. I was sort of shocked when I did my first water capacity test on my wing tanks and discovered that they held not 8 ( my guesstimate) , but 11 gallons! -- Ross] Screwy Squirrel wrote: > I just had kind of a random thought occur to me... and I must apologize > ahead of time for talking out my ass, as I really haven't thought it > through carefully, or checked it against a set of plans or any of those > good things you're _supposed_ to do first... > > Anywho, it goes like this: I've seen a couple of web pages of builders who > opt to not use/use a small header tank in favor of just using the wing > tanks(I saw one who commented that, in a crash, they'd rather not have > gasoline splashed all over - a sentiment I can respect)... but then I > think that if you do that, you lose a fair amount of fuel capacity. > So, my thought is this: could you extend the wing spars a bit so that you > could build bigger wing tanks? I can see two potential problems with this > right now: 1) a longer wing spar may not be as able to sustain wing > loading as the standard spar, and 2), adding that much fuel to the wing > may cause balance problems. The potential benefits are 1) more fuel > capacity, and 2) a slightly longer wing possibly providing a more > favorable aspect ratio on the wing(any of you aeroengineers out there care > to comment on this?). I suppose one could do this even if you decide to > keep the header tank, although you may run into weight problems... > > I apologize if this is nonsense, or if it is completely unoriginal... like > I said I haven't had time to think it through carefully. But, I can take > criticism as well as anyone... > > I guess the part I'm most curious about is the aspect ratio question... > how much could, say a KR-2S, benefit from having longer wings? > > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > |John E. Holeman | OSU Computer Science| > |754-3450 | OSU Atmospheric Science| > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | > |www.orst.edu/~holemanj |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > | Are you pondering what I'm pondering? | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:21:47 -0700 To: From: "Bob Smith" Subject: bolt torque specs Message-ID: <004a01c03e97$4addaf40$96911918@nycap.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C03E5C.9E3BB3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could someone tell me the proper torque specs for common KR AN bolt = sizes? A web reference would be handy if anyone has one. =20 Thanks Bob Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C03E5C.9E3BB3C0-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************