From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 31 Oct 2000 23:35:44 -0000 Issue 117 Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 3:36 PM krnet Digest 31 Oct 2000 23:35:44 -0000 Issue 117 Topics (messages 2782 through 2796): Changes 2782 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Re: puzzle 2783 by: Frank Ross 2785 by: w.g. kirkland 2793 by: Guenther Bryce Re: Florin's Question RE: KR2-S Thrust line 2784 by: Frank Ross Funny Story time 2786 by: Robert Stone Cowling attatch brachets 2787 by: Gognij.aol.com 2789 by: cartera local kr-2 owners 2788 by: L.R. McAdams Web site update and progress report 2790 by: Donald Reid 2791 by: Ned Thomas 2792 by: Stefan B. Insurance 2794 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout Alternator cooling 2795 by: macwood 2796 by: virgnvs.juno.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:28:49 -0500 To: "KRNET" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: Changes Message-ID: Donald Reid Almost got it right, he said; In order to design (or re-design) a safe airplane, you need to either be aeronautical engineer or study aeronautical engineering until you have sufficient knowledge so that you don't get yourself in trouble. Each change that you make will affect something else. He maybe should have said, "each change you make will affect almost everything else". When you make it stronger/bigger, you need to increase fuel capacity. Therefore you need to increase engine size. Therefore make it bigger, stronger, with more fuel capacity. As the King of Siam said, " Etcetera, etcetetera, etcetera....." Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:15:00 -0800 (PST) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> puzzle Message-ID: <20001029161500.28174.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> > "w.g. kirkland" wrote: > > > Ok. It's Fri. Puzzle me this. How many places in > the world are there from which you can go ten miles > south, ten miles west, and ten miles north and > arrive back where you started. William the > navigator. > > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > > kirkland@vianet.on.ca When I was in Thule Greenland about a million years ago, I saw a great many Canadian flyers do some amazing things. Some even flew sober. I think this must be a Canadian, or at least an Arctic Circle thing. My guess is that it must be the North Pole. From what I saw in Greenland, the sun does not always come up in the East and set in the West and compasses do not always point North (as we all know). But the earth is round and round and round we go... ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:48:23 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: puzzle Message-ID: <001001c041c8$27733460$bb905bd1@kirkland> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0419E.2410E8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry guys. don't mean to pollute the net. If you come up with more than = 1 as an answer reply to me direct. Answer next Fri. dv. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0419E.2410E8A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:18:36 -0800 (PST) To: Frank Ross , krnet From: Guenther Bryce Subject: Re: KR> puzzle Message-ID: <20001030191836.93035.qmail@web9006.mail.yahoo.com> --- Frank Ross wrote: > > "w.g. kirkland" wrote: > > > > > Ok. It's Fri. Puzzle me this. How many places in > > the world are there from which you can go ten > miles > > south, ten miles west, and ten miles north and > > arrive back where you started. William the > > navigator. > > > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > > > kirkland@vianet.on.ca > > When I was in Thule Greenland about a million years > ago, I saw a great many Canadian flyers do some > amazing things. Some even flew sober. I think this > must be a Canadian, or at least an Arctic Circle > thing. > My guess is that it must be the North Pole. From > what > I saw in Greenland, the sun does not always come up > in > the East and set in the West and compasses do not > always point North (as we all know). But the earth > is > round and round and round we go... > > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > The correct answer is two assuming the question did not specify magnetic or true latitude/longitudinal ordinates 1)Magnetic north pole and 2)True north pole __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:34:16 -0800 (PST) To: KR-Net From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Florin's Question RE: KR2-S Thrust line Message-ID: <20001029163416.29418.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Florin L Pintea wrote: > > Hello there KR fellows, > Would anyone be able to tell me exactly where is the > thrust line located on the KR2-S? > Thanks! > > Florin L Pintea Florin, Below are some responses to this question awhile back. Hope this helps. I have no personal experience with this yet, but I trust these answers. Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX PROPELLER THRUST-LINE: Mark Langford wrote: Anybody ever actually SEEN a published thrust line location for the KR2 or 2S? Mark, I don't have my plans available to refer to, so anything that I say is probably based on a guess and some BS. The premolded fwd deck and cowling follow the line of the top longeron. The fwd deck sits on top of the longeron and the cowling top half follows the same line. Thus, the opening in the center of the front of the cowl marks the center and thrust line. The engine mount drawing probably only considers the strength of the fuselage/firewall structure and identifies the best area to attach the mount to. So, I think that it is safe to say that in as far as the plans are concerned the thrust line for a KR built using the premolded parts is the line identified by the upper longeron extended to the end of the cowling. As you say any KR built with the intent of using other engine/cowling combinations, you could locate the thrust line as you like. Any alternate location would force you the rethink the design and loading of the firewall and fuselage structure as it relates to the stress of the engine attachment. Of the three gear options (Rand retract, Rand fixed, and Diehl) The Rand fixed offers the greatest ground clearance. I have a 54-inch prop and still have over 4" available in level attitude. With the Bigger engine I'm sure that clearance is an issue. Orma A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR Hi Mark; Yes I fabricated my own steel tube engine mount from plans published in an old issue of the KR Newsletter. This mount was for a HAPI accessory case conversion to my VW 2100 engine. It used a four-bolt connection to the firewall and located the thrust line .8 inches below the centerline of the top two firewall bolts. I have been using this location with a 54" x 54" prop on my retract KR-2 without problems. I am currently building a new mount for my 110 Corvair engine and intend to use that same location. Since my retract sits lower than your fixed gear you should be able go larger than 54" at this location. I can't tell you which issue the motor mount plans came from but I could fax you a copy of the plans if you're interested. Rich Seifert KR-2 (N56SR) And remember that the propeller hole is a few inches (don't know exactly) below the split line of the two cowling halves. Paul Mark, An early newsletter quoted the thrust line as .8 + - .2 below the top surface of the top longeron. I started a conversation here on the net last year about this because in looking at photos there seems to be quite a variety. The response was that it really didn't make much difference. As to prop diameter it used to be stated in the tail dragger days you needed 9" of ground clearance. Now days with nose wheels its not so critical and pretty much a personal responsibility. Tony Bingelis states in his book that some inspectors may insist on a minimum clearance ? Also note it is generally accepted that the propeller diameter should be larger for efficient low airspeed operations, and smaller for high airspeeds? This all relates to a conversation off the net we are having right now about p-factor. As the KR was designed to be powered with a lightweight, high rpm, short prop VW engine. I have been looking into this as I'm putting a lyc 0-235 in mine and wondering about the possibilities of using some offset: 1/2 degree or so. Today I have the plane finished firewall back, wheel fairings too, primed and ready to paint as soon as the paint gets here. Lynn Hyder WA7YXF N37LH Redmond, Oregon __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:46:51 -0600 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Funny Story time Message-ID: <001401c041c7$d6f5bc60$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C04195.8B7977E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A low time pilot was flying from Santa Maria, California to Meadowlark = Field in Hunting Beach. The aircraft was a Cessna Skyhawk. He was = using Omni for Navigation. He had land on his left and water on his = right. All he had to do was follow the coast line. Medowlark can be = seen from the coast since it's only about l l/2 miles inland so it would = have been impossible to get lost. His Omni went out and he declared an = emergency and ask for a radar steer to the nearest airport. I had my = airplane tied down at Medowlark at the time and when I heard some of the = guys in the restaurant talking about this incident I could not believe = it, but it actually happened. Bob Stone ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C04195.8B7977E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:31:32 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Gognij@aol.com Subject: Cowling attatch brachets Message-ID: <60.8388685.272dff44@aol.com> Hello Everybody! Can anybody tell me the best way to attach the aluminum brackets to the firewall that are needed to hold the engine cowling to the firewall? I see the plans say to use a single bolt per bracket. This seems like it could be a problem with the Revmaster premolded cowling that I have since it is not as thick as the foam and glass cowling that a plans built cowling would be. My concern is that a bolt might go through the edge of one of the firewall vertical frame members. Would it be acceptable to use self tapping wood screws into the firewall to hold these brackets? Also! How much room should I leave behind the "AFT" side of the prop hub to accommodate one of Great Plaines KR spinners. I am using Steves 3.5 degree tapered hub on my 1776cc engine? Best Regards......Jim Gogniat Gognij@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:12:45 -0700 To: Gognij@aol.com From: cartera CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Cowling attatch brachets Message-ID: <39FD034D.F8843084@cuug.ab.ca> Gognij@aol.com wrote: > > Hello Everybody! > > Can anybody tell me the best way to attach the aluminum brackets > to the firewall that are needed to hold the engine cowling to the firewall? I > see the plans say to use a single bolt per bracket. This seems like it could > be a problem with the Revmaster premolded cowling that I have since it is not > as thick as the foam and glass cowling that a plans built cowling would be. > My concern is that a bolt might go through the edge of one of the firewall > vertical frame members. Would it be acceptable to use self tapping wood > screws into the firewall to hold these brackets? > Also! How much room should I leave behind the "AFT" side of the prop > hub to accommodate one of Great Plaines KR spinners. I am using Steves 3.5 > degree tapered hub on my 1776cc engine? > Best > Regards......Jim Gogniat > Gognij@aol.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org Hi Jim, No you never use wood screw anywhere on the aircraft, very unsafe method You will just have to come up with something else and as for the cowling being light, my cowling was layer of 5.8oz. one layer of 4oz. mat and one layer of 5.8oz. no foam at all some reinforcing at the stress point but thats all no foam is really needed. I just had 90 deg brackets with two if I remember correctly two 8/32 screws with blind nuts. A 1/8" rubber layer on the bracket with receptacle, Hole was drilled and receptacle was mounted with rivets, before mounting on firewall, 2600 series camloc and receptacles were used, thats it. I know there are a lot of experts out there that will say this is wrong, but it's still flying with no problems. Good Luck! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:59:05 -0600 To: From: "L.R. McAdams" Subject: local kr-2 owners Message-ID: <001001c041fb$d72cad40$3ee9f5d1@a8l8z7> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C041C9.8BA74100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have recently purchased a KR-2 and am in the process of redoing some = of it and would like to find local KR-2 owners and builders for advise and would like some one to = check me out in this aircraft when I'm=20 finished restoring it I live south Of Dallas Tx near Midlothian Tx Lee McAdams lee121139@netzero.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C041C9.8BA74100-- _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:37:34 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Web site update and progress report Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001030133018.00959950@pop.erols.com> I have made some changes the web site to show the most recent progress. Recently I was asked some questions about my setup for electric flaps. I do not recommend then, but I have added some photos to show how I did it. I was not happy with the wings that I did originally, so I had to do them over. The wings are not finished, but the photos do show the construction details. I will add more details, including the panel weight, when I remove the wing for covering the bottom. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL construction at http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://users.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:00:54 -0600 To: Donald Reid From: Ned Thomas CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Web site update and progress report Message-ID: <39FDC564.1F3C8D11@mmcable.com> Don, Many thanks for your corresponding with me about your flap system and also for the great pictures. Very helpful information. You have put together a very simple straight forward and inexpensive solution fo relectric flap conversion. Thanks again, Ned Donald Reid wrote: > I have made some changes the web site to show the most recent progress. > > Recently I was asked some questions about my setup for electric flaps. I > do not recommend then, but I have added some photos to show how I did it. > > I was not happy with the wings that I did originally, so I had to do them > over. The wings are not finished, but the photos do show the construction > details. I will add more details, including the panel weight, when I > remove the wing for covering the bottom. > > Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com > Bumpass, Va > > KR2XL construction at http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://users.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:17:13 +0100 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Stefan B." Subject: Re: KR> Web site update and progress report Message-ID: <39FDC939.791FFDDD@wanadoo.fr> Donald Reid wrote: > I have made some changes the web site to show the most recent progress. > > Recently I was asked some questions about my setup for electric flaps. I > do not recommend then, but I have added some photos to show how I did it. > Don, Could you tell us what is the weight of your flap system? I have a reducted electric motor from the flap system of a certified French 4-seater and I hesitate about using it. The weight of my flap motor is about 5 lb. Thanks in advance. Stefan Balatchev, Paris, France mailto:Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:38:01 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Insurance Message-ID: <20001030.163802.-256751.0.klw1953@juno.com> Just an update to the guys that responded to my questions regarding insurance for my soon to be flying S. I called SkySmith as recommended, they are checking with several carriers to find the best deal. I will post the prices when I get them since this is of interest to all of us that fly these things.---------------------Kenny (N6399U) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:44:34 -0000 To: "krnet user group" From: "macwood" Subject: Alternator cooling Message-ID: <000c01c04338$9beb69e0$4fd6b0c2@tinypc> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04338.5274F4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (1) I have an old Revmaster with the alternator mounted = behind the prop flange. I am thinking about making an additional air = inlet in the form of an annular slot around the spinner circumference. = This would provide cooling for the alternator and avoid the necessity of = modifying the cowl to take the deeper spinner skirt . Any comments = would be appreciated. = (2).Is it really necessary to cut away the = Fibrefrax under the firewall where the engine mount pads sit? I seem to = remember Tony B sugesting this,but only after I'd fitted the firewall = sheet metal! Cheers! Mac = England UK = = =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04338.5274F4C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:24:24 -0500 To: macwood@tinyworld.co.uk From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Alternator cooling Message-ID: <20001031.183412.-353657.4.virgnvs@juno.com> Good question! Awaiting an answer, Virg On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:44:34 -0000 "macwood" writes: > (1) I have an old Revmaster with the alternator > mounted behind the prop flange. I am thinking about making an > additional air inlet in the form of an annular slot around the > spinner circumference. This would provide cooling for the alternator > and avoid the necessity of modifying the cowl to take the deeper > spinner skirt . Any comments would be appreciated. > (2).Is it > really necessary to cut away the Fibrefrax under the firewall where > the engine mount pads sit? I seem to remember Tony B sugesting > this,but only after I'd fitted the firewall sheet metal! > Cheers! Mac England UK > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************