From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 24 Nov 2000 05:29:42 -0000 Issue 129 Date: Thursday, November 23, 2000 9:29 PM krnet Digest 24 Nov 2000 05:29:42 -0000 Issue 129 Topics (messages 3075 through 3104): Re: fiberglass vs. plywood 3075 by: Ross Youngblood 3078 by: Albert Pecoraro 3090 by: Albert Pecoraro 3092 by: Rick Human Re: NEWSLETTERs 3076 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Project in STX 3077 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Moved my web site, KRRon 3079 by: Ross Youngblood Re: KR2 For Sale 3080 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Warping in elevator ... 3081 by: Albert Pecoraro 3082 by: Ross Youngblood 3083 by: Albert Pecoraro 3084 by: Jim V. Wickert Re: Used KR2s 3085 by: Frank Ross alternative power? 3086 by: Screwy Squirrel 3087 by: Horn2004.aol.com 3094 by: Frank Ross 3101 by: Peter Nauta William Wynne?? 3088 by: William Tabbert glass the boat?? 3089 by: Jack Coranz 3091 by: Albert Pecoraro 3093 by: David R. Christensen Re: An introduction 3095 by: GARYKR2.cs.com 3097 by: Gaston Landry 3099 by: David R. Christensen Re: DUMBO ??? 3096 by: GARYKR2.cs.com KR 3 N33KR 3098 by: Aripo 3100 by: virgnvs.juno.com 3102 by: Robert Stone Thanksgiving 3103 by: Edwin Blocher Regards From Richard McCall 3104 by: richardmccall.earthlink.net Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:24:41 -0700 To: Eduardo Iglesias From: Ross Youngblood CC: KR-net Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood Message-ID: <3A1B3C79.C7A43785@teleport.com> Eduardo, I haven't been keeping up to date on Deans fuselage, so I can't comment, did he glass his? -- Ross Eduardo Iglesias wrote: > Ross > > What about the fuselage a la Dean? I think itīs good an if I donīīt have > finish mine I like this way. (not flown yet) > > Eduardo > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:39:35 -0500 To: "Ross Youngblood" , "Eduardo Iglesias" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Cc: "KR-net" Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood Message-ID: <000a01c05435$d77765a0$ddd1b23f@steelcase.com> Ross, Yes, he glassed his fuselage. The fuselage section of his site makes for some very interesting reading. http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/fuse02.htm Eduardo (or anybody else for that matter): If you want to build your fuselage a' la Dr. Dean, here is something you should read from the above link (Dr. Dean's site): <<<1.Can I build my KR this way? No, I'm sorry you can't. The problem is the dimensions of the KR fuselage won't work with this type of construction. Trust me, I've been there and done that. When you change something as large as the fuselage, everything else in the airplane has to change along with it. How do you mount the tail, what do you do with the firewall, how do you get the spars in there, for example. This fuselage was entirely developed on the CAD prior to two pieces of wood ever meeting each other. I invested more time in research and development then most people spend building their projects.>>> I don't know how busy he is nowadays, but he is the person with whom you should speak if you want to build something like he did. Albert Pecoraro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "Eduardo Iglesias" Cc: "KR-net" Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:24 PM Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood > Eduardo, > I haven't been keeping up to date on Deans fuselage, so I can't comment, > did he glass his? > -- Ross > > Eduardo Iglesias wrote: > > > Ross > > > > What about the fuselage a la Dean? I think itīs good an if I donīīt have > > finish mine I like this way. (not flown yet) > > > > Eduardo > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:33:46 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Fw: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood Message-ID: <001b01c054fe$3354dd80$c6d1b23f@steelcase.com> Dean, I think you forgot to cc: this to KR-Net! ;-) Take care and Happy Thanksgiving! Albert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aggie lewanda" To: "Albert Pecoraro" Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:27 PM Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood > > --- Albert Pecoraro wrote: > > Ross, > > > > Yes, he glassed his fuselage. The fuselage section of his site makes for > > some very interesting reading. > > > > Gentlemen: > > I am an amateur still looking at my plans and scratching my head. > Now that I have admitted no qualifications whatsoever, here is my > observation: > > Why couldn't a builder finish the "boat" portion, as per plans, with > the exception of the plywood. Then fill the surfaces between wooden portions > of the longerons with 1" thick foam, sand to contour, and fiberglass? > > This should certainly be stronger than plywood, probably create a smoother > finish and be a lot simpler than Dr. Dean's process. > > One of the things I like about the KR design is that it is simple and > serves as a platform for expressing individuality as well as incorporating > technology that was not available when Ken Rand made the prototype. > > I assume such a fuselage would be stronger than plywood, take longer to make, > cost more and might be somewhat heavier. Certainly appeals to me but > I will listen for a lot of input from more knowledgeable builders (that's > about all of y'all) > > Regards, > > Dean Allen > > ===== > Dean Allen > P.O. Box 4173 > Greenville, SC 29608 > > (704) 348-1715 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:54:41 -0600 To: Albert Pecoraro , kr2s group From: Rick Human Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood Message-id: <003101c05509$7ee0c420$cf09c1cf@rahuman> Dean - yes you could do that , and really that's the method that Rutan used with the Vari-eze and Long-Eze. He used even less wood in those designs - they do use some spruce for hard points - if memory serves right around the landing gear attach points and some short longerons for motor mount attachments. Heavier - probably - more work probably - remember you will need to glass the inside and outside - smoother probably not without alot of finishing work which is another reason it will likely be heavier. Stronger - not likely - the spruce/ply box is a very efficient design for strength to weight. But this is "experimental aviation" so go experiment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Pecoraro" To: "kr2s group" Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:33 PM Subject: Fw: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood > Dean, > > I think you forgot to cc: this to KR-Net! ;-) > > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving! > > Albert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aggie lewanda" > To: "Albert Pecoraro" > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass vs. plywood > > > > > > --- Albert Pecoraro wrote: > > > Ross, > > > > > > Yes, he glassed his fuselage. The fuselage section of his site makes for > > > some very interesting reading. > > > > > > > Gentlemen: > > > > I am an amateur still looking at my plans and scratching my head. > > Now that I have admitted no qualifications whatsoever, here is my > > observation: > > > > Why couldn't a builder finish the "boat" portion, as per plans, with > > the exception of the plywood. Then fill the surfaces between wooden > portions > > of the longerons with 1" thick foam, sand to contour, and fiberglass? > > > > This should certainly be stronger than plywood, probably create a smoother > > finish and be a lot simpler than Dr. Dean's process. > > > > One of the things I like about the KR design is that it is simple and > > serves as a platform for expressing individuality as well as incorporating > > technology that was not available when Ken Rand made the prototype. > > > > I assume such a fuselage would be stronger than plywood, take longer to > make, > > cost more and might be somewhat heavier. Certainly appeals to me but > > I will listen for a lot of input from more knowledgeable builders (that's > > about all of y'all) > > > > Regards, > > > > Dean Allen > > > > ===== > > Dean Allen > > P.O. Box 4173 > > Greenville, SC 29608 > > > > (704) 348-1715 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:35:57 -0700 To: Frank Ross From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> NEWSLETTERs Message-ID: <3A1B3F1D.AE469A63@teleport.com> I have a link with the address to the KR newsletter. It should be noted that KR-net is NOT affiliated with the KR newsletter, but in the interests of promoting KR's I have a link to Monte's address at our site (when I say 'our', I refer to all of you KR netter emails). http://www.krnet.org/KRnewsletter.html Frank Ross wrote: > Anyone have the address for the KRNewsletter? > Thanks > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! > http://calendar.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:37:26 -0700 To: William Tabbert From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Project in STX Message-ID: <3A1B3F76.93C0862C@teleport.com> Bill, This is totaly crazy! I will be in STT sometime in June, and it appears I will have to make a KR-netter pilgramage to your site to photograph your project... and drink Rum. -- Ross William Tabbert wrote: > Well it is official our KR-2S (and all our other household items) arrived in > St.Croix (US Virgin Islands) today from West Virginia. I am looking forward > to completing the bird (if I can get our stuff from customs)down here on the > island!!My new job allows me to spend more time with my ladies,,,, Wife, > Baby, ..... Plane!!?? > > Does anybody know of any KR's flying around in Puerto Rico?? > > If any of you guys (or Gals) come down here on vacation please feel free to > stop by. We always know the best spots in the Caribbean!!!! > > http://jillenium.members.easyspace.com > Bill Tabbert > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:39:35 -0700 To: Ron Eason From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: Moved my web site, KRRon Message-ID: <3A1B3FF7.45EFC012@teleport.com> Ron, Nice site... like the wing tank fuel pump circuit. -- Ross Ron Eason wrote: > My new web site is > http://www.jrl-engineering.com/hangar.html > we are still working on it and more photos will be added soon. > > KRRon > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:41:59 -0700 To: Kr2skip@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet Subject: Re: KR> KR2 For Sale Message-ID: <3A1B4087.DA37F9AC@teleport.com> Skip, Is this the KR with the sexy retract gear that looks like a 'real' retract (ie, like a jet or Corsair, instead of Bellanca Viking) -- Ross Kr2skip@aol.com wrote: > I have decided to sell my KR2. It was built by Don Betchan in Perry OK. It > is a very special KR with a very unique fully retractable and enclosed > landing gear. Zero time STOH on 1832, 100TTAF, too much to list. If > interested contact Skip Carden at: kr2skip@aol.com. > > Skip Carden > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:47:00 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: Warping in elevator ... Message-ID: <001901c05436$dfa0d300$ddd1b23f@steelcase.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0540C.F5B69BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I solved the problem with the twist in my elevator. I set it on a table = and placed a 3/4" x 8" block of wood under the center of the elevator = spar to support it. Then I took a clamp and hyper-extended the warped = end past the centerline, took a heat gun on medium-high setting and = slowly warmed the affected area until it was hot to the touch. I let it = cool in my garage - which didn't take that long since I live in Grand = Rapids, Michigan and we were just blessed with 12" of snow! ;-) I left = the clamp on for 30 minutes and then checked the piece. It was still out = a bit, but not as much as before, so I repeated the process another time = and it came out right.=20 Albert=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Albert Pecoraro=20 To: kr2s group=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:32 AM Subject: Warping in elevator ... KR-Elevatorheads, I worked on the gap seal of my horizontal stabilizer this evening and = after I had the glass trimmed back I put the elevator in place to see = how it fit. Well, I noticed that one side of the elevator lined up = alright with the gap seal, but the other side was out about 3/16" on the = outer edge. I looked it over and measured everything and I couldn't = figure out what was wrong ... until I picked up the elevator and checked = the leading edge for alignment. I noticed that one side of the elevator = was slightly warped. Picture this if you will ... take the elevator and = twist it only on one of the outer edges until the leading edge at the = outer edge drops/rises 3/16". That is what I ended up with on the one = side.=20 Q1: If I were to straighten the warped edge with a clamp and then = slowly heat it with a heat gun until it was formable, and then let it = cool, would this adversely affect the strength of the part? ... Q2: Is there a way to straighten this part before/during post-cure? = ... Q3: Are there standard industry methods to repair this type of defect? = ... I know that the weight of clamps can cause slight distortion during = cure, but shouldn't the piece return to its normal state after the = clamps are removed? I used several 2" spring clamps to hold = straightedges in place on the trailing edges and I noticed slight = distortion during cure due to the weight of the clamps. I didn't think = anything of it ... until tonight. I mean, one side came out nice and = straight while the other side warped about 3/16". Hmmm ... Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated.=20 If you are kind enough to reply, could you please include an = explanation of how to repair this type of defect in general. I think it = would be helpful to us all. Thanks. Albert Pecoraro ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0540C.F5B69BE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:56:14 -0700 To: Albert Pecoraro From: Ross Youngblood CC: kr2s group Subject: Re: KR> Re: Warping in elevator ... Message-ID: <3A1B43DE.53D01BB9@teleport.com> Albert... This sounds like a professional approach... Next summer, I think I can try the reverse... park my KR out here in Arizona then take it into a hangar, jig it, and then pack it in ice for 30 minutes. Actually all kidding aside, I think was a great solution, and I may need to try it sometime myself. -- Ross Albert Pecoraro wrote: > I solved the problem with the twist in my elevator. I set it on a table and placed a 3/4" x 8" block of wood under the center of the elevator spar to support it. Then I took a clamp and hyper-extended the warped end past the centerline, took a heat gun on medium-high setting and slowly warmed the affected area until it was hot to the touch. I let it cool in my garage - which didn't take that long since I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan and we were just blessed with 12" of snow! ;-) I left the clamp on for 30 minutes and then checked the piece. It was still out a bit, but not as much as before, so I repeated the process another time and it came out right. > > Albert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Albert Pecoraro > To: kr2s group > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:32 AM > Subject: Warping in elevator ... > > KR-Elevatorheads, > > I worked on the gap seal of my horizontal stabilizer this evening and after I had the glass trimmed back I put the elevator in place to see how it fit. Well, I noticed that one side of the elevator lined up alright with the gap seal, but the other side was out about 3/16" on the outer edge. I looked it over and measured everything and I couldn't figure out what was wrong ... until I picked up the elevator and checked the leading edge for alignment. I noticed that one side of the elevator was slightly warped. Picture this if you will ... take the elevator and twist it only on one of the outer edges until the leading edge at the outer edge drops/rises 3/16". That is what I ended up with on the one side. > > Q1: If I were to straighten the warped edge with a clamp and then slowly heat it with a heat gun until it was formable, and then let it cool, would this adversely affect the strength of the part? ... > > Q2: Is there a way to straighten this part before/during post-cure? ... > > Q3: Are there standard industry methods to repair this type of defect? ... > > I know that the weight of clamps can cause slight distortion during cure, but shouldn't the piece return to its normal state after the clamps are removed? I used several 2" spring clamps to hold straightedges in place on the trailing edges and I noticed slight distortion during cure due to the weight of the clamps. I didn't think anything of it ... until tonight. I mean, one side came out nice and straight while the other side warped about 3/16". Hmmm ... > > Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. > > If you are kind enough to reply, could you please include an explanation of how to repair this type of defect in general. I think it would be helpful to us all. > > Thanks. > > Albert Pecoraro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:12:10 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Warping in elevator ... Message-ID: <002701c0543a$6417eda0$ddd1b23f@steelcase.com> Ross, Thanks. I thought about it for a few minutes before actually trying it out because if the heat gun stays too long on one area you run the risk of melting the foam underneath the glass - which is what I definitely did not want to happen. I kept the gun about 4" from the surface, started at one end of the elevator and worked my inward - approximately 1 minute from the outside edge to the inner edge. And then I worked my way back. I used my free hand to follow the heat gun. When the surface was hot to the touch I knew that I had achieved a reasonable degree of heat (pardon the pun! ;-) I did a few more passes with the gun to ensure a bit of uniformity and then I let the elevator cool down. It worked out pretty good. The best solution, however, is to build it straight the first time! ;-) Albert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "Albert Pecoraro" Cc: "kr2s group" Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: Warping in elevator ... > Albert... > This sounds like a professional approach... > > Next summer, I think I can try the reverse... park my KR out here in Arizona > then take it into a hangar, jig it, and then pack it in ice for 30 minutes. Actually > all kidding aside, I think was a great solution, and I may need to try it sometime > myself. > > -- Ross > > Albert Pecoraro wrote: > > > I solved the problem with the twist in my elevator. I set it on a table and placed a 3/4" x 8" block of wood under the center of the elevator spar to support it. Then I took a clamp and hyper-extended the warped end past the centerline, took a heat gun on medium-high setting and slowly warmed the affected area until it was hot to the touch. I let it cool in my garage - which didn't take that long since I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan and we were just blessed with 12" of snow! ;-) I left the clamp on for 30 minutes and then checked the piece. It was still out a bit, but not as much as before, so I repeated the process another time and it came out right. > > > > Albert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Albert Pecoraro > > To: kr2s group > > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:32 AM > > Subject: Warping in elevator ... > > > > KR-Elevatorheads, > > > > I worked on the gap seal of my horizontal stabilizer this evening and after I had the glass trimmed back I put the elevator in place to see how it fit. Well, I noticed that one side of the elevator lined up alright with the gap seal, but the other side was out about 3/16" on the outer edge. I looked it over and measured everything and I couldn't figure out what was wrong ... until I picked up the elevator and checked the leading edge for alignment. I noticed that one side of the elevator was slightly warped. Picture this if you will ... take the elevator and twist it only on one of the outer edges until the leading edge at the outer edge drops/rises 3/16". That is what I ended up with on the one side. > > > > Q1: If I were to straighten the warped edge with a clamp and then slowly heat it with a heat gun until it was formable, and then let it cool, would this adversely affect the strength of the part? ... > > > > Q2: Is there a way to straighten this part before/during post-cure? ... > > > > Q3: Are there standard industry methods to repair this type of defect? ... > > > > I know that the weight of clamps can cause slight distortion during cure, but shouldn't the piece return to its normal state after the clamps are removed? I used several 2" spring clamps to hold straightedges in place on the trailing edges and I noticed slight distortion during cure due to the weight of the clamps. I didn't think anything of it ... until tonight. I mean, one side came out nice and straight while the other side warped about 3/16". Hmmm ... > > > > Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. > > > > If you are kind enough to reply, could you please include an explanation of how to repair this type of defect in general. I think it would be helpful to us all. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Albert Pecoraro > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:28:11 -0500 To: "Albert Pecoraro" From: "Jim V. Wickert" Cc: "kr2s group" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Warping in elevator ... Message-ID: <200011220928_MC2-BBC3-92EF@compuserve.com> Hi Alberet, The foam will withstand heat up to 180 then it will break down. 160 is a= great temp to post cure your layups and not cause a problem with the structure. If anyone is ever in a position where they have a problem lik= e this there is a surface tape thermometer that you can apply and it will give the actual surface temp, very accurate, there is also a temp pencil that you place a mark on the surface and as you reach temp the color changes. The thermoneter in more accurate and cost about $2.50. Take Care JW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:11:57 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Used KR2s Message-ID: <20001122171157.13054.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Probably. I've seen KRs in Trade-A-Plane, but it is rare. You'll have better luck at Barnstormers or on KRNet. See today's mail, for instance. Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX --- virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > They are all flying ??? Virg > > On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:23:07 +0000 "Francisco Ursua > Cocke" > writes: > > Why can't I find a single solitary KR2 in > Trade-a-Plane, does anyone > > know? > > > > Appreciate the help! > > > > Francisco Ursúa-Cocke > > Ecuador ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:21:05 -0800 (PST) To: KR-People From: Screwy Squirrel Subject: alternative power? Message-ID: Hi there! I've some friends who are heavily into being environmentally friendly and a discussion involving my new project generated some interesting questions about power plants. Has anyone out there thought about using some form of alternative/more-environmentally-friendly system on a KR? I was thinking of something along the line of an electric or hybrid electric system and of alternate fuels such as ethanol, compressed natural gas, or even hydrogen. Just curious.... +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |John E. Holeman | OSU Computer Science| |754-3450 | OSU Atmospheric Science| +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | |www.orst.edu/~holemanj |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with | | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will | | always long to return. | | | | -- Leonardo da Vinci | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:45:30 EST To: holemanj@ucs.orst.edu, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> alternative power? Message-ID: <74.524ae42.274d987a@aol.com> In a message dated 11/22/00 3:22:06 PM, holemanj@ucs.orst.edu writes: <> Can you say power to weight ratio? There is a gaggle of alternative fuel RV's which fly regularly on (I think) ethanol. Diesel may have some merit in the near future, but I don't think any sane person would consider flying with a large cylinder of any type of compressed gas which is potentially explosive. I've seen the damage a SCUBA tank can do when it releases 72 cubic feet of air suddenly. I'd hate to see what happens with explosive gas. I guess if there was a need to be politically correct, we would be building KR hang gliders. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:57:26 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> alternative power? Message-ID: <20001123075726.21092.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> John, Electric Power is NOT environmentally friendly. Think about it! It is a SECONDARY and much more inefficent source of power. The electric plant BURNS FUEL, making emissions, to run huge ENGINES that turn GENERATORS that MAKE ELECTRICITY which is trasferred to your house. You must use that OIL-MADE source of power to charge LEAD batteries, which are WAY too heavy to put in an airplane and then power your heavy electric motor. Sure YOUR vehicle is not burning gasoline and making pollution, the ELECTRIC POWER plant is though, and in much larger proportions than if you just used a gasoline engine in the first place. And before long, you need new batteries and your old lead batteries have to be broken down to make new ones, because they're no good anymore. A lot of resources go into that process and are wasted too. Electric power is great, but it is NOT environmentally friendly, it's pollution is just less visible. A well-tuned gasoline engine is about as good as it's going to get at this point. Hybrids are a good idea for cars though. Just too heavy for airplanes. Which brings me to the subject of concrete boats and steam-powered planes... --- Screwy Squirrel wrote: > Hi there! I've some friends who are heavily into > being environmentally > friendly and a discussion involving my new project > generated some > interesting questions about power plants. Has > anyone out there thought > about using some form of > alternative/more-environmentally-friendly system > on a KR? I was thinking of something along the line > of an electric or > hybrid electric system and of alternate fuels such > as ethanol, compressed > natural gas, or even hydrogen. > > Just curious.... > > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > |John E. Holeman | > OSU Computer Science| > |754-3450 | > OSU Atmospheric Science| > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu > |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | > |www.orst.edu/~holemanj > |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | > +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > | When once you have tasted flight, you will forever > walk the earth with | > | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > and there you will | > | always long to return. > | > | > | > | -- > Leonardo da Vinci | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:41:57 +0100 To: From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: RE: KR> alternative power? Message-ID: I'm concerned about that too. Check out the latest "Custom Planes" magazine, it features a BMW 2 cylinder 100Hp engine (converted by Takeoff, based in Germany) with electronic motor management en fuel ignition, as well as catalyser system and is very quiet too. While being complicated, it must be one of the most economic alternatives. My only concern is that the engine fill not fit in front of a KR firewall, but I've been told that when moving the generator, it might just fit. Mind you, this set up is certified in the Netherlands. Two Cherries are flying with this setup. Apart from the good emission control, it will probably be the leanest KR around. > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Ross [mailto:kae_ar@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:57 AM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> alternative power? > > > John, > Electric Power is NOT environmentally friendly. Think > about it! It is a SECONDARY and much more inefficent > source of power. The electric plant BURNS FUEL, making > emissions, to run huge ENGINES that turn GENERATORS > that MAKE ELECTRICITY which is trasferred to your > house. You must use that OIL-MADE source of power to > charge LEAD batteries, which are WAY too heavy to put > in an airplane and then power your heavy electric > motor. Sure YOUR vehicle is not burning gasoline and > making pollution, the ELECTRIC POWER plant is though, > and in much larger proportions than if you just used a > gasoline engine in the first place. And before long, > you need new batteries and your old lead batteries > have to be broken down to make new ones, because > they're no good anymore. A lot of resources go into > that process and are wasted too. Electric power is > great, but it is NOT environmentally friendly, it's > pollution is just less visible. A well-tuned gasoline > engine is about as good as it's going to get at this > point. Hybrids are a good idea for cars though. Just > too heavy for airplanes. > Which brings me to the subject of concrete boats and > steam-powered planes... > > --- Screwy Squirrel wrote: > > Hi there! I've some friends who are heavily into > > being environmentally > > friendly and a discussion involving my new project > > generated some > > interesting questions about power plants. Has > > anyone out there thought > > about using some form of > > alternative/more-environmentally-friendly system > > on a KR? I was thinking of something along the line > > of an electric or > > hybrid electric system and of alternate fuels such > > as ethanol, compressed > > natural gas, or even hydrogen. > > > > Just curious.... > > > > > +----------------------------------+------------------------------ > ---------+ > > |John E. Holeman | > > OSU Computer Science| > > |754-3450 | > > OSU Atmospheric Science| > > > +----------------------------------+------------------------------ > ---------+ > > |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu > > |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | > > |www.orst.edu/~holemanj > > |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | > > > +----------------------------------+------------------------------ > ---------+ > > | When once you have tasted flight, you will forever > > walk the earth with | > > | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > > and there you will | > > | always long to return. > > | > > | > > | > > | -- > > Leonardo da Vinci | > > > +----------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------+ > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:56:00 -0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "William Tabbert" Subject: William Wynne?? Message-ID: I am almost down to my engine, mount, and prop.. I have been trying to call William Wynne to order the hub and a few other things, has anybody had any contact with him lately??? Some parts I need for my 110hp Corvair... 1.) Engine mount (Tric). 2.) Prop Hub. 3.) Carb. 4.) Exhaust / Intake (I can build if nec). 5.) Prop Shaft 6.) Etc..... Before I get to far can any of you guys that have went with the Corvair comment on the performance?? If you had it to do again would you choice a VW?? Please give me some input.. http://jillenium.members.easyspace.com US Virgin Islands Thanks, Bill Tabbert _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 01:50:34 -0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jack Coranz" Subject: glass the boat?? Message-ID: Can anyone answer me? I have my boat done and am about to glass the turtle deck on. Would it be worth laying a thin layer of glass on the spruce all the way around to strengthen it up? Or is it not woth the weight?? Also one of my wings is done and the other needs to be built. I bought a partilaly built project and I am not sure what brand resin the guy used? (he had not touched it for around 5 years and threw the cans away!!!) Can any of you guys comment or have an opinion on what brand are generally most compatible. I would like to roll another layer of resin on the wing that is allready built (it has been smacked around a bit over the years). Thank You, Jack _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:03:36 -0500 To: From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> glass the boat?? Message-ID: <001e01c05502$5be05d20$c6d1b23f@steelcase.com> Jack, >Would it be worth laying a thin layer of glass on the "spruce" all the way around to strengthen it up? Do you mean mahogany or birch instead of spruce? ... If you live in an area where the plane will be subjected to very cold weather, it makes good sense to cover the entire wooden skin of the fuselage with a light deck cloth to serve as a moisture/weather barrier. This also seals the wood. The additional strength gained by using the deck cloth is probably very minimal, and the weight gain will also be very minimal. I would install the turtledeck the conventional way by using 2 or 3 layers of BID tape to attach the turtledeck to the fuselage and use peel-ply on the tape. That way if you decide later on that you want to cover the fuselage with a light deck cloth you can overlap it onto the turtldeck where the tape is and it will adhere much easier. Another thing you can do to strengthen the bond between the turtledeck and fuselage is to use flox between the foam of the turtledeck and the longeron of the fuselage. Flox, although structural, adds weight. > Also one of my wings is done and the other needs to be built. I bought a > partilaly built project and I am not sure what brand resin the guy used? (he > had not touched it for around 5 years and threw the cans away!!!) Can any of > you guys comment or have an opinion on what brand are generally most > compatible. I would like to roll another layer of resin on the wing that is > allready built (it has been smacked around a bit over the years). I'm not an expert in this area but based on some general feedback I've received from KR-Net I would say that epoxy resin would be the most compatible when used on top of other types of resin. If you belong to an EAA Chapter, run this by your Technical Counselor and see what s/he says. Perhaps there are ways to chemically test a spot to see what type of resin was used, or perhaps they are skilled enough to determine just by looking at it. Best Wishes and Happy Thanksgiving. Albert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:38:35 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: KR> glass the boat?? Message-ID: <002801c05518$01b21d00$67785ad1@davec> Jack, The wood grain on the fuselage can be filled and sealed to a perfectly smooth suface using West Systems epoxy with the Microlight filler. I used this method on my KR-2 which has been in service for nine years now and still looks as good as new. I used Randolph Epibond primer and Randthane Juneau White color coat for my finish. Covering with fiberglass would probably add a few pounds of weight and these tend to add up significantly in attempting to improve strength. I did put in a wedge of foam along the top of the longerons and glassed on the inside on the longerons up onto the turtle deck to make a more solid joint. If your wing has been smacked around over the years you probably have soft spots under the skin. This is where the foam has been crushed by a blow. These soft spots will turn into blisters due to the air pocket created by the crushed foam. The only way to satisfactorily repair these is to cut away the skin over the soft spot, replace the crushed foam and splice in a fibergass patch. This patch can be slightly under contour and then surfaced flush with West Systems epoxy and Microlight filler. Rather than rolling on an extra layer of resin which will add quite a bit of weight I would repair the surfaces locally as required and use a light weight eoxy filler to restore the surface finish. Think light! >Can anyone answer me? I have my boat done and am about to glass the turtle >deck on. Would it be worth laying a thin layer of glass on the spruce all >the way around to strengthen it up? Or is it not woth the weight?? > >Also one of my wings is done and the other needs to be built. I bought a >partilaly built project and I am not sure what brand resin the guy used? (he >had not touched it for around 5 years and threw the cans away!!!) Can any of >you guys comment or have an opinion on what brand are generally most >compatible. I would like to roll another layer of resin on the wing that is >allready built (it has been smacked around a bit over the years). > > >Thank You, > Jack >___________________________________________________________________________ __________ >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:09:27 EST To: klw1953@juno.com, andrew@subjex.com From: GARYKR2@cs.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> An introduction Message-ID: In a message dated 11/18/00 8:22:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, klw1953@juno.com writes: << I am brand new to this forum. My name is Andrew Hyder. I recently > purchased a fully completed (once flying) KR2. It had been involved > in a > small crash (hard landing really). where the landing gear > (retractable) > collapsed during the landing (retracted). There is front end damage, > but > the engine (VW) is fine and was just rebuilt. (8 hours). >> Hey Andrew, I'm on the East coast, but I think we can work on the phone and send pictures back and forth to get this repaired. As they say, been there done that. I had a gear up landing and think I can help you. Drop me a line and lets see what we can get going. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:03:16 -0400 To: GARYKR2@cs.com, klw1953@juno.com, andrew@subjex.com From: "Gaston Landry" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> An introduction Message-ID: Welcome to the gang, Andrew :o) I was just thinking, if you can do it without too much surgery, perhaps converting your plane to fixed gear.. less chance of the gear retracting in a hard landing, that way... I know I'd feel alot safer, flying a fixed gear... Gaston >From: GARYKR2@cs.com >To: klw1953@juno.com, andrew@subjex.com >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> An introduction >Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:09:27 EST > >In a message dated 11/18/00 8:22:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, >klw1953@juno.com writes: > ><< I am brand new to this forum. My name is Andrew Hyder. I recently > > purchased a fully completed (once flying) KR2. It had been involved > > in a > > small crash (hard landing really). where the landing gear > > (retractable) > > collapsed during the landing (retracted). There is front end damage, > > but > > the engine (VW) is fine and was just rebuilt. (8 hours). >> > > Hey Andrew, I'm on the East coast, but I think we can work on the >phone and send pictures back and forth to get this repaired. > As they say, been there done that. I had a gear up landing and >think >I can help you. Drop me a line and lets see what we can get going. > Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. > garykr2@cs.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:45:32 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: KR> An introduction Message-ID: <000901c0557d$8ff142c0$91785ad1@davec> Andrew, The retractable gear with the Rand Robinson latches works fine. I have been using it for nine years and 500 hours on my KR-2. There are a couple of things that are important to it's function. Make sure latch springs are installed to hold the latches down. Make sure the notch that engages the square extrusion is slightly undercut so forces tending to rotate the gear back will force the latches down toward the extrusions rather than tending to unlatch them. I installed an extra lever (cam affair) on the right latch which I lift after takeoff to hold the latch up while I release the other latch. Otherwise the right one will tend to relatch while releasing the left one. To avoid hard landings I do tail low wheel landings exclusively. A big advantage of going with fixed gear is being able to use smooth disc brakes rather than the mechanical drums. I used a machined drum I got from Great Planes with sandpaper glued to the inside to sand my shoes to contour. I didn't use the machined drums as they were actually less true than my original ones. I had to shim the cam to prevent over rotation of the lever and possible locking over center. The shoes never seem to wear at all. They work fairly well now. I ground looped off the runway a couple of years ago (long story), ran down into the borrow pit, hit the bottom of it and the latches actually tore through the square extrusion and the gear retracted. I feel this was the best possible scenario under the circumstances. I'm sure with the fixed gear mounted to the spar the spar would have been damaged, gear broken or the plane would have flipped. The damage with this incident was repaired and the KR flying again in three weeks. The extended gear also has an air brake effect which helps control speed in the pattern and landing. I also have slightly oversize flaps on my KR which help stabilize the landing roll since the drag on them is behind the wheels. I leave the flaps down until my indicated airspeed gets down to about 50 mph, then retract them and pull the tail down. A good gripping tailwheel is also important like the 4" one Great Planes supplies. My tailwheel tends to skid quite a bit during landings. Dave >Welcome to the gang, Andrew :o) > >I was just thinking, if you can do it without too much surgery, perhaps >converting your plane to fixed gear.. less chance of the gear retracting in >a hard landing, that way... I know I'd feel alot safer, flying a fixed >gear... > >Gaston > > >>From: GARYKR2@cs.com >>To: klw1953@juno.com, andrew@subjex.com >>CC: krnet@mailinglists.org >>Subject: Re: KR> An introduction >>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:09:27 EST >> >>In a message dated 11/18/00 8:22:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>klw1953@juno.com writes: >> >><< I am brand new to this forum. My name is Andrew Hyder. I recently >> > purchased a fully completed (once flying) KR2. It had been involved >> > in a >> > small crash (hard landing really). where the landing gear >> > (retractable) >> > collapsed during the landing (retracted). There is front end damage, >> > but >> > the engine (VW) is fine and was just rebuilt. (8 hours). >> >> >> Hey Andrew, I'm on the East coast, but I think we can work on the >>phone and send pictures back and forth to get this repaired. >> As they say, been there done that. I had a gear up landing and >>think >>I can help you. Drop me a line and lets see what we can get going. >> Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. >> garykr2@cs.com >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> > >___________________________________________________________________________ __________ >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:28:09 EST To: vicsani@gis.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> DUMBO ??? Message-ID: For those of you who do not have the news letters, DUMBO is the KR2 that is pictured in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:43:33 +0200 To: "KRnet" From: "Aripo" Subject: KR 3 N33KR Message-ID: <000a01c03dd1$4c7d1960$9e561197@aripo> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C03DE1.EE44DC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everybody I have found on the net an old picture of a plane crash , it whas a KR3 = ??? call sign N33KR. Does anybody knows something about these accident. Ciao=20 Franco Negri I-KRFN Italy =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C03DE1.EE44DC00-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:40:57 -0500 To: aripo@micanet.it From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR 3 N33KR Message-ID: <20001123.134441.-380545.0.virgnvs@juno.com> No, but would like to know, Virg On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:43:33 +0200 "Aripo" writes: > Hi everybody > > I have found on the net an old picture of a plane crash , it whas a > KR3 ??? call sign N33KR. > Does anybody knows something about these accident. > > Ciao > > Franco Negri I-KRFN Italy ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:04:20 -0600 To: , From: "Robert Stone" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> KR 3 N33KR Message-ID: <001501c055aa$1b09c400$0101a8c0@pavilion> The KR3 was a sea plane under development by Rand Robinson when Ken was alive. The prototype was finished and was being test flown by one "Capt Jack". He was not as experienced as he should have been. The KR3 was mostly destroyed during the test and the pilot received some minor injuries. Ken was killed before the KR3 was ever rebuilt. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR 3 N33KR > No, but would like to know, Virg > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:43:33 +0200 "Aripo" writes: > > Hi everybody > > > > I have found on the net an old picture of a plane crash , it whas a > > KR3 ??? call sign N33KR. > > Does anybody knows something about these accident. > > > > Ciao > > > > Franco Negri I-KRFN Italy > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:24:46 -0600 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: "corvaircraft" Subject: Thanksgiving Message-ID: <001e01c055b5$55f169a0$73e579a5@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C05583.09E5B660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanksgiving greetings to all. Be thankful today for what you have, = family friends, and someone who loves and supports you. My wife, Mary = and I celebrated our 22nd anniversary today at home, not able to be with = families. I thank her for her support of my KR2S project. I'm still = working on the bent spars when it is warm enough and should have the = rear center section one ready to close in a couple of weeks. Thanks to = everyone who asks questions and everyone who answers responsibly. Ed Ed Blocher kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C05583.09E5B660-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:23:43 -0300 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: Subject: Regards From Richard McCall Richard McCall has created a custom greeting card for you at REGARDS.COM, the Internet's most popular greeting card service. Your greeting card ID is: 398-4406671-1100 This greeting was sent to you on Friday, November 24, 2000 at 12:23 AM EST. 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