From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 28 Nov 2000 14:58:48 -0000 Issue 131 Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:59 AM krnet Digest 28 Nov 2000 14:58:48 -0000 Issue 131 Topics (messages 3130 through 3150): Friday File 3130 by: Cary Honeywell 3132 by: David R. Christensen 3137 by: David R. Christensen kr2s plans wanted 3131 by: jim jacoby Free Wood - KR 3133 by: Steve KR-2 FOR SALE (11/9 digest) 3134 by: flyakr2.juno.com Re: Good Landing 3135 by: David R. Christensen sheeting the truss 3136 by: Oscar Zuniga Re: Individual Weight? 3138 by: Mark Langford Mike Garbez 3139 by: Mark Jones need 52x48 prop and needle for posa carb cant find parts 3140 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com Canadian KR builders 3141 by: Carter Pond 3143 by: Horn2004.aol.com 3144 by: Horn2004.aol.com 3148 by: David Mullins Fixturing? and the Cam100 3142 by: Carter Pond 3146 by: Albert Pecoraro 3149 by: David R. Christensen Re: sell out 3145 by: garbez 3147 by: garbez 3150 by: Tom Crawford Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:38:56 -0500 To: From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Friday File Message-ID: <008601c05799$d53e0c00$1905a8c0@cary> ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C05667.54342E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this is a bit off topic, but it is Friday. =20 Yesterday 2 pilots, brothers also, took off from Rockliffe Airport on a = trip to Sterling Ontario, about 140 KMiles. They were flying a Zodiac = with 75 HP under the hood. =20 They never made it. In fact, they just made it out of the circuit! =20 Factors not under the control of the pilot: severe clear with a 270 = degree wind at 10 gusting to 20. Temp -6C, or around 20F. Time 1530EST. =20 Factors under the pilot's control: Confusion in the cockpit with regards = to starting the aircraft. Full wing and header tanks. 2 adults, about = 160 and 195 pounds. Probably some baggage stowed in the back. = Possibility of an impairment in the pilot's mental abilities (recently = forced retirement from active employment. Possible retiring to = retirement home. Speculation although both are quoted from news = sources.) Not known who was actually flying the aircraft.=20 =20 This flight was taken in order to move pilot's aircraft to his brother's = farm strip where his 172 had already been transported. =20 Now remember. 75 HP. Anything wrong here? =20 Witnesses at the airport reported that the aircraft appeared unstable in = climb-out. Climb-out was not very steep, if in fact there was any = climb-out at all. =20 Aircraft crashed at reasonably high speed as the pilot attempted to land = on a roadway in the city. He hit a car, spun into a tree and exploded in = from of several witnesses. =20 Not one person on the ground was hurt! =20 Our KR2s are, more-or-less, similar to the Zodiac in many ways. There = seems to be a glaring message to all of us. =20 Know your aircraft. Know yourself. Act accordingly in favour of saving yourself and others from a bad = ending and a 3 page piece in the newspapers. =20 Its Friday. =20 Sorry to bother. =20 - Cary - (who knew them) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C05667.54342E60-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:46:00 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: KR> Friday File Message-ID: <000d01c057c0$0b66d5c0$85785ad1@davec> Cary, Excellent message! I might emphasize also pursuing maintenance and trouble reports aggressively and asking the right person for advice. This in light of the recent total failure of my Bendix dual magneto and resultant forced landing. I opted to try to glide to the runway rather than chance a landing on a very tempting paved highway fearing the scenario you have related. My KR has terrible ground visibility due to my chopping the canopy height to the absolute minimum. Also, based on another incident I had landing with power but shutting down the engine because it wouldn't idle back enough, I found the rollout to be uncontrolabe without that thrust up front and ground looped off the runway. The idea of landing on a highway and becoming an uncontrolled vehicle at 50 mph doesn't appeal to me. Based on my experiences I have decided the gear up landing is my best bet in a forced landing. You stop very quickly in a straight line. Of course there would be an increased risk of catching a wing and cartwheeling but a paved surface would minimize this risk. The terrain was desert sagebrush so farm fields were not a possibility. I didn't quite make it, landing gear up about ten feet short after gliding in my KR-2 for nine miles from about 4200' AGL. Luckily the KR skidded onto the runway and continued on about 100' on down the runway. The damage was non-structural and I should have it flying again in about a week. In retrospect I failed to investigate the AD's and service bulletins on this magneto. Being installed on a non-certified Revmaster engine precluded me from getting the routine notices from the FAA that I receive regularly on my other aircraft. Althought the AD's would not have prevented my incident as they apply to older units, there was a service bulletin that suggested having the magneto overhauled every four years. It was the time factor that resulted in a dry needle bearing overheating, heating the cam and melting both nylon cam followers within about five minutes of each other. There was a six year delay after I bought the engine until I flew the KR, then nine more years of flying regularly. At 488 hours when the magneto failed it hadn't quite reached time for a standard 500 hour inspection. I had asked Revmaster for advice on maintenance of the engine several times and gotten no indication that that magneto was a disaster wiating to happen. If I had been warned of this failure mode I certainly would have taken appropriate action. On talking with them after the incident they said "I've never heard of that happening". They also refuse to suggest a recommended TBO for their engine so this is still a question in my mind. I'm thinking I will impose 1000 hours as my personal limit assuming no problems arise. Well enough for now. I've got to take the repaired fuselage out to the airport this morning so I will have room to paint the wing repairs. -----Original Message----- From: Cary Honeywell To: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:21 AM Subject: KR> Friday File I know this is a bit off topic, but it is Friday. Yesterday 2 pilots, brothers also, took off from Rockliffe Airport on a trip to Sterling Ontario, about 140 KMiles. They were flying a Zodiac with 75 HP under the hood. They never made it. In fact, they just made it out of the circuit! Factors not under the control of the pilot: severe clear with a 270 degree wind at 10 gusting to 20. Temp -6C, or around 20F. Time 1530EST. Factors under the pilot's control: Confusion in the cockpit with regards to starting the aircraft. Full wing and header tanks. 2 adults, about 160 and 195 pounds. Probably some baggage stowed in the back. Possibility of an impairment in the pilot's mental abilities (recently forced retirement from active employment. Possible retiring to retirement home. Speculation although both are quoted from news sources.) Not known who was actually flying the aircraft. This flight was taken in order to move pilot's aircraft to his brother's farm strip where his 172 had already been transported. Now remember. 75 HP. Anything wrong here? Witnesses at the airport reported that the aircraft appeared unstable in climb-out. Climb-out was not very steep, if in fact there was any climb-out at all. Aircraft crashed at reasonably high speed as the pilot attempted to land on a roadway in the city. He hit a car, spun into a tree and exploded in from of several witnesses. Not one person on the ground was hurt! Our KR2s are, more-or-less, similar to the Zodiac in many ways. There seems to be a glaring message to all of us. Know your aircraft. Know yourself. Act accordingly in favour of saving yourself and others from a bad ending and a 3 page piece in the newspapers. Its Friday. Sorry to bother. - Cary - (who knew them) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:32:58 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: Friday File Message-ID: <001601c058a0$78118680$a9785ad1@davec> Thank you Cary. I am gratified that someone might benefit from my experience. -----Original Message----- From: Cary Honeywell To: David R. Christensen Date: Monday, November 27, 2000 4:04 AM Subject: Friday File >Thanks Dave. The guys at the field are doing a lot of contemplating these >days. > >I have a Bendix. Guess its time to send t out for a "looksee". > >- Cary - > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David R. Christensen" >To: "krnet mailing lists" >Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:46 AM >Subject: Fw: KR> Friday File > > >> Cary, >> Excellent message! I might emphasize also pursuing maintenance and >.98/kr2.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 05:39:44 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jim jacoby Subject: kr2s plans wanted Message-ID: <11768295.975245984385.JavaMail.imail@digger.excite.com> does anybody out there have a set of kr2s (hopefully) or kr2 plans they want to sell. Email me at nejacoby@ntown.com with your price _______________________________________________________ Tired of slow Internet? Get @Home Broadband Internet http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:43:36 -0800 To: From: "Steve" Subject: Free Wood - KR Message-ID: <005501c057f1$f0e13600$72c9d7cc@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C057AE.E0494C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi guys, I have been listed on the net for some time but this is the first time I = am writing. Approximately two years ago I bought enough wood from Wicks to do the = basic fuselage frame. I did very little and stopped. No time. I have most of the wood in my garage still crated (2 boxes). I am = giving it away FREE to any one who will pick it up. I am located in Pittsburgh, PA - 412-221-3838. Steve Mitan ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C057AE.E0494C80-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:04:43 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flyakr2@juno.com Subject: KR-2 FOR SALE (11/9 digest) Message-ID: <20001126.130444.-99881.2.flyakr2@juno.com> KR enthusiasts: My KR-2 is now sold to a very nice gentleman from Idaho. I thank you all for your interest. Dave Henderson Red Bluff, CA flyakr2@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:27:24 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Re: Good Landing Message-ID: <000a01c0582a$57e6fb40$51785ad1@davec> Thanks Bill, I get an anxiety attack when I think of the terrain I had been flying over prior to the magneto failure. I had been to the Lake Powell Air Affair at Page, Arizona. The mesas and washes with essentially no roads or fields offer few if any chances for a safe landing. Fortunately the mag failure waited until I was about nine miles southeast of Delta, Utah. The timing was nothing short of miraculous! -----Original Message----- From: Willard561@aol.com To: davec@favorites.com Date: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:50 AM Subject: Good Landing >Dave, >Congrats on doing the RIGHT THING,I've lost several friends trying to do what >you didn't. Sad part 3 of them were high time IP's. From your discription of >your area of ops, where on the North American continent are you? >Bill Higdon >Willard561@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:10:33 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: sheeting the truss Message-ID: Peter wrote: >I then placed the first truss on the ply (ensuring I wasn't >building the same side for a second airplane You wouldn't have been the first to build two "starboard sides" ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:31:10 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Individual Weight? Message-ID: <001101c058c1$be9349b0$f2de8e18@300emachine> Todd wrote: > I'm wondering if someone could throw me some of their individual weights, > completed fuselage (less eng.)and especially wings? The wings seem a little > on the heavy side and we're thinking about rebuilding them, which brings me > to another question. Since this is a KR2 non stretched, should we consider > the AS5046 airfoil designed for the KR2S or stick with the stock airfoil? > Thanks for any help, now back to more endless reading :) Nobody else nibbled on this one so I'll give it a try. Can't help you with completed fuselage weight, but my wings will be 50 pounds each when I'm done, but that includes split flaps, their controls, aileron belcranks and cable (which are usually part of the fuselage), inner wing skins, and nav lights and strobes. I've heard of 35 pounders, and the other day a KR pilot told me his weighed 93 pounds each! Maybe now we'll hear from some others. The AS5046 airfoil will work just as well on a KR1 or KR2 as it does for the KR2S. It's not OPTIMIZED for them, but neither is the RAF48 optimized for any of the KR series. Those who think the RAF48 was actually chosen for the job are mistaken. We have it on KRs because the Taylor Monoplane had it, pure and simple. Those wondering why I haven't updated my website lately need only look at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/sentra.html for how the Corvair engine conversion is going. Bottom line is that I suspect that a stock Revmaster cowling will easily cover the Corvair engine, which is over an inch narrower than the VW (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/firewall.jpg )... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd" To: Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: KR> Individual Weight? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:15:36 -0600 To: CorvAIRCRAFT , KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: Mike Garbez Message-ID: <3A22F928.B03C24A3@execpc.com> Mike are you out there? Please email me as I have a question for you concerning your sell out! -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:33:48 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Subject: need 52x48 prop and needle for posa carb cant find parts Message-ID: <15.c4a21e9.2754657c@cs.com> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:44:04 -0800 To: kr From: Carter Pond Subject: Canadian KR builders Message-ID: <3A233814.7DDAF068@home.com> Eh! KR builders Where have you been purchasing Spar material and other wood supplies? Whose the best Composite supplier for dollar. Or do we have to use a loonie and a half on the dollar to get some sold in USA supplies. Carter KR Dreaming ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:26:57 EST To: carterkr2s1@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Canadian KR builders Message-ID: <6a.8d3cd5b.27548001@aol.com> In a message dated 11/27/00 7:37:44 PM, carterkr2s1@home.com writes: << Where have you been purchasing Spar material and other wood supplies? Whose the best Composite supplier for dollar. Or do we have to use a loonie and a half on the dollar to get some sold in USA supplies. >> I'd give a shout to Adrian Cartera out West. He'll be able to tell you where to get the most for your Loonies and Twoonies, and still have some left over for a two-four of blue, eh? Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX and a cottage on the Severn River ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:36:19 EST To: Horn2004@aol.com, carterkr2s1@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Canadian KR builders Message-ID: <9b.d49c46e.27548233@aol.com> In a message dated 11/27/00 9:28:08 PM, Horn2004@aol.com writes: << I'd give a shout to Adrian Cartera out West. He'll be able to tell you where to get the most for your Loonies and Twoonies, and still have some left over for a two-four of blue, eh? >> Make that Adrian Carter. And while you're at it, check out his site below. http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~cartera/photo.html Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX and Muskoka ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:26:59 -0500 To: Carter Pond , krnet From: David Mullins Subject: Re: KR> Canadian KR builders Message-ID: <3A235033.AF5EEDA0@ici.net> Carter, I purchased my Spruce from Western Aircraft Supplies in Calgary, AB Jean Peters has some excellent stock and will mill it to your specs if you make any changes to the plans material list. With all the changes in material sizes that I did, plus some extra. The cost was around $900US with shipping by Northwest Airlines from Calgary to Boston of $85US. Wicks wanted $809US for a RR spruce kit (no extra and no changes) plus shipping Aircraft Spruce wanted about the same and EAA Oshkosh had only raw stock and you would have to mill it yourself. So Jean was the best for me. Dave Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire Carter Pond wrote: > > Eh! KR builders > Where have you been purchasing Spar material and other wood supplies? > Whose the best Composite supplier for dollar. Or do we have to use a > loonie and a half on the dollar to get some sold in USA supplies. > Carter > KR Dreaming > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:55:36 -0800 To: kr From: Carter Pond Subject: Fixturing? and the Cam100 Message-ID: <3A233AC8.137E3F40@home.com> Has any one successfully built KR wings off of the fuselage. Because of lack of space I am looking for options. I realize great care would be need to do this. IF is possible at all. Can any one tell me how to copy full web pages including picture so I can share with others. I use Netscape navigator 5 something. Last one for the night. Any option on the Cam 100 Honda engine? KR Dreaming Carter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:46:06 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> Fixturing? and the Cam100 Message-ID: <000801c058f6$20458540$e8d4b23f@steelcase.com> Carter, (or is it Darren?! ;-): > Has any one successfully built KR wings off of the fuselage. Because of > lack of space I am looking for options. I realize great care would be > need to do this. IF is possible at all. I met a KR-2 builder in Canada who built his plane in his father's basement. He had no choice but to build his wings separated from the fuselage because there was not enough clearance to tip the plane over (they don't make those 16 foot high ceilings any more! ;-) So it is possible to build the wings that way. If you built a mock-up template of the stub wing (including Wing Attach Fitting locations), you could probably build the wings on some sort of rotating jig or right on a work table. > Last one for the night. Any option on the Cam 100 Honda engine? (My own opinion) - I looked into it a couple years ago. At first it looked like a nice engine to hang on a KR, but when I received the information kit and read the specs I thought it was a bit too heavy for the power it produced. And you also have a reduction drive that adds weight. They try to compare it to a Continental O-200 for size, weight, power, price, cost and ease of maintenance, etc. In my opinion, there is no comparison ... I would rather have the O-200 if that is what they are comparing it against. However, if your goal is to get a brand-new reliable engine at a relatively low cost, the CAM100 would be an option to look into. Here is their website (Firewall Forward Aero Engines, Inc): http://www.aero-engines.bc.ca/ I am not engine-savvy, but just looking at the numbers for the CAM100 it looks like the engine would have to run pretty high RPMs to get the propeller spinning in the right range - Reduction Ratio: 2.4:1(6000 rpm engine/2500 rpm propeller) (6500 engine/2700 propeller). Hope this helps. Albert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:45:27 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: KR> Fixturing? and the Cam100 Message-ID: <002a01c0590f$3e671b60$76785ad1@davec> Carter, I installed the foam ribs and top side foam sheeting with the spars attached to the fuselage then removed that rough assembly and installed the bottom sheeting and did all my foam shaping and fiberglassing on the work bench without any fixture. After laying up and curing all of the glass except the bottom side of the wing I applied the glass for the bottom side on the work bench and while the resin was still wet, I reassembled the wing panel to the fuselage and jigged the tip to the proper angle of attack. The wing was quite flexible torsionally until closed in on the bottom side. My wings are true from left to right with no trim required in flight so I guess this was a good method. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Carter Pond To: kr Date: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:57 PM Subject: KR> Fixturing? and the Cam100 >Has any one successfully built KR wings off of the fuselage. Because of >lack of space I am looking for options. I realize great care would be >need to do this. IF is possible at all. > >Can any one tell me how to copy full web pages including picture so I >can share with others. I use Netscape navigator 5 something. > >Last one for the night. Any option on the Cam 100 Honda engine? >KR Dreaming >Carter > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:51:18 -0600 To: "KR-POST" From: "garbez" Subject: RE: sell out Message-ID: <001d01c058ee$9c650220$a1fcfea9@msgtlg.netins.net> Mark Jones First I want to clarify that I'm not parting out my project, just the corvair engine and mount, and the 1835 VW, I don't have the resources or the time to piss with the corvair and William -- I'm working with Steve Bennett on a type 4 rear drive, the engine will be about 2,700 cc, 90 HP, that I'm already installing in my airplane, N998MG. It sure makes a difference when you're dealing with people that deliver. Now for the corvair mount and engine, Mark Jones , I'm sorry but if I get stuck with the engine I would rather have the parts I need to maybe do something with it at a later date. I can fully understand your frustration with William, I have been there, done that, and gave up! Good Luck with your project, mine will be flying again very soon. Mike Garbez N998MG msgtlg@netins.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:17:12 -0600 To: "KR-POST" From: "garbez" Subject: RE: sell out Message-ID: <000501c058fa$7cc92840$a1fcfea9@msgtlg.netins.net> The following is stated in the KR newsletter, and I will post it on the net one more time: FOR SALE: 1835 VW, firewall forward, with only 4TTE.Dual ignition, 52X46 prop and motor mount. Simply bolt to your firewall, plumb it, wire it and go fly it. $2,950. Also Corvair short block with std crank and OT10 cam. Reconditioned rods, and front and top covers completed by William Wynne. Have Wynne Corvair engine mount with tri-gear bracket welded to it for KR-2. All for $1,000. Sorry, will not part out. Mike Garbez N998MG msgtlg@netins.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:56:05 -0500 To: garbez From: Tom Crawford CC: KR-POST Subject: Re: KR> RE: sell out Message-ID: <3A23C785.1668@ufl.edu> garbez wrote: > > I don't have the resources or the > time to piss with the corvair and William -- I'm working with Steve Bennett > on a type 4 rear drive, the engine will be about 2,700 cc, 90 HP, It sure makes a difference when > you're dealing with people that deliver. You are right on here- many of us on the net have dealt with Steve for years, and you will not hear of many bad experiences. Also- please keep us up to date on the T4 rear drive install. A few of us are very interested. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************