From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 25 Dec 2000 19:39:36 -0000 Issue 143 Date: Monday, December 25, 2000 11:39 AM krnet Digest 25 Dec 2000 19:39:36 -0000 Issue 143 Topics (messages 3384 through 3396): Re: V-Witt 3384 by: James Happy Hollidays 3385 by: Edwin Blocher wing foam 3386 by: Drew Swenson 3392 by: Brian Vasseur 3394 by: Brian Vasseur Re: KR-2S about to start 3387 by: Ross Youngblood Re: wing construction 3388 by: Ross Youngblood Re: new kid on the block 3389 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Flight test protocol 3390 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Tailwheel Springs 3391 by: Ross Youngblood Tail twist 3393 by: Brian Vasseur Spar 3395 by: Edwin Blocher Merry Christmas! 3396 by: Florin L Pintea Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:03:39 +0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: James Subject: Re: V-Witt Message-ID: <3A44868B.9531805F@postma.com> This is a copy of mail I sent to the VW list. Sorry guys to hear of such sad events and my symphathies to all concerned. I would like to repeat some comments I made earlier in more depth regarding construction. The classical construction methods and design of the cockpit area I think are very poor from a pilot survivability standpoint; wood, tube frame, and even aluminum included. Before I purchased my Q2 I checked on accident statistics with the EAA. They have statistics for each experimental airplane. I found that it had an accident rate that was about average and has some nasty ground handling characteristics with a high incidence of "runway departures" (more on this later); but the fatality rate is very low. On examination of the cockpit you can see why. The cockpit area is very strong, being a solid composite tube. The pilot sits low in a reclining position similar to gliders to get a low frontal area. This also gives good head and roll over protection. It looks similar to the evolution of racing cars. In the days of Fangio and the other Italian and British greats, they sat upright in the breeze. The Italians even would not use a seat belt, being fearful of burning in the wreck and wanting to be thrown clear. Ferrari used to like going to see his cars race, but stopped going because he was losing so many drivers in crashes, and did not want to see his friends die. So now the latest race cars have a total encapsulation of the driver in composite materials with the cockpit being the stongest element. The driver sits low with a 5 point harness. You may remember a horrific crash at Indianapolis where the only thing left of the car was the cockpit which caught on fire. Everyone thought the driver was gone. But he survived. Another example is unlimited hydorplane racing. They have a high incidence of blowovers whereby the front end comes up and it does a half loop, landing on the driver upside down. These are very spactacular and used to have a high fatality rate in the days of open cockpit, low tech materials, etc. Again, like the car racers, it looked very macho until the driver went flying through the air in a different direction than the boat. Machoism had a low lifetime. Now, these racers are using an F-16 cockpit with oxygen and egress hatches on the bottom, so rescuers can get them out after the blowovers. There have been NO, NONE, NADA serious injuries since they went to this system. Some think that a slow airplane will have safe landings. True the energy to be absorbed is proportional to the square of the speed. So an airplane that lands at 40 mph has 1/4 the energy to be absorbed that my Q2 does at 80 mph. But the above considerations can more than make up for the speed factor. You can be crushed at 10 mph in a poor design. Look again at the Indianapolis experience with surviable crashes at over 200 mph. Another example is a noted airshow performer in the Glassaire III. He was flying his Christen Eagle and landed off field in a level attitude without hitting anything, but did not survive. If he landed his Glassaire in the same field at much higher speed, I believe he would have walked away from it. Then there was the member of the Eagles airshow performers who flew with Tom Poberenzy. He got himself a WWII warbird. During a minor runway departure, it turned over and broke his neck. Here's one I'm close to. My friends Birch Parker was flying Frank Folmers Q200 when evidently a propeller blade departed. The instrument panel was shaking so badly that he could not read the instruments. He shut down the engine and made a landing on the freeway below him. His speed was more than the cars on the road, so in avoiding a car in front of him, he hit a pole at 70 mph shearing off the left canard at the fuselage which came to rest 200 feet off the freeway. He walked away from it and Frank is rebuilding the canard and it will fly again. Am I getting my point across guys and girls (maybe the wives will read this). If you want to live a long life, get out of your low tech tube and fabric, wood and aluminum airplanes and go modern. At least think about laying some composites in your cockpit and getting your nogin inside the structure and get those 4 and 5 point harnesses. Friends (and wives) don't let friends (and relatives) fly dangerous airplanes. James Postma Q2 N145EX P.S. The runway departure problem of the Q2 is being solved by builders and pilots through the exchange of information on these e-mail lists even though the Quickie Aircraft Company went out of business years ago. I probably would have given up without it, but now I am successful from reading all the good information you are pumping out on lists like this. The information age is truly revolutionary. Keep this good stuff coming ! Marty Hammersmith wrote: That's great Brandon. Jim Frank was a great guy who left small children and a distraught wife behind. The mildness of the crash and the extent of his injuries were disproportionate. It was even more shocking since we were there when it happened. I really expected Jim to hop out and at most we'd have to tow the plane back to the hangar. I hope you can benefit from his unfortunate death. I wish you safe flying and I hope if you decide to build the airplane that you can find a way to prevent or reduce the chance of the structure coming in at you. Brandon Walters wrote: > My thanks to those who replied to my inquiry on the V-Witt. > > When the plans came in I didn't have to look very long to find some > structure that could "come in on you." Also the built-in pilot > impaler/landing wire truss at station B just won't do. Shoulder room is > about 20inches. I'll try to adapt this to something safer. > > Pictures were included, showing the prop being driven off the flywheel end > of the 1600VW, by way of a long extension tube. No prints or measurements > were given for this. A single mag was sticking straight off the accessory > end. > > Happy Holidays to all, > Brandon Walters -- Marty Hammersmith http://www.geocities.com/mhammersmith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:53:07 -0600 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Happy Hollidays Message-ID: <001701c06d43$e2591820$6ce579a5@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C06D11.967FBF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Merry Christmas, Y'all have a good Christmas and may Santa bring you = something for your KR. I finally bit the bullet today and turned on my = propane heat on in the shop (at $1.39 a gallon) and worked on a spar for = 3 hours. How accurate did you you guys make yours? I'm trying to get the = depth within .002" instead of 1/32" or whatever. I'm making shims out of = paper, file folders etc to get it perfect. If everything else takes as = long to get perfect I'll still be working on my KR ten years from now. Happy Hollidays Ed Blocher Moody, Alabama kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C06D11.967FBF80-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:19:24 -0500 (EST) To: KRNet From: Drew Swenson Subject: wing foam Message-ID: <387229328.977631567812.JavaMail.root@web731-wra.mail.com> What ((type)) and brand of foam should I use for wing construction? Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:46:19 -0700 To: "Drew Swenson" , "KRNet" From: "Brian Vasseur" Subject: Re: KR> wing foam Message-ID: <008e01c06dea$915add80$2c45e4cf@C5477> I've seen blue polystyrene (i.e. 2" construction foam from Home Depot) which is sanded to shape on my plane. I've seen bigger blue polystyrene cores hotwired to shape with lightening holes cutout, urethane sanded and prefab wing skins. The prefab skins are the best finish and easiest to do, but you have to use either polyester or vinylester which has a bad smell. (Your adhesive has to be the same as the skins were made with). Urethane sands better than polystyrene but it can't be hotwired as it gives off cyanide gas when heated. It is however fuel resistant. Polystyrene can be hotwired which gives a really nice finish if it's done well, and can be sanded although sanding does make quite a mess. The foam dust picks up a lot of static and sticks to absolutely everything. If you use polystyrene then DO NOT put wing tanks in, or put in REMOVEABLE aluminum tanks. Even a pinhole leak will dissolve the polystyrene and it will be in a location where you won't see it. My wings are sanded 2" polystyrene sheets. If you go this way buy disposable coveralls which you can take off and shake off outside in a light breeze. Keep your shop vac handy because you'll want to clean up as you go. Foam dust under the sanding stick will cause high spots. Sanding the foam isn't a really big deal, far less work than the fiberglass work itself. Anything you do to make the foam as flawless as possible will cut 3 times that many hours from filling and sanding fiberglass which is much harder work. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Swenson" To: "KRNet" Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: KR> wing foam > What ((type)) and brand of foam should I use for wing construction? > > Drew > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:01:01 -0700 To: From: "Brian Vasseur" Subject: Fw: KR> wing foam Message-ID: <00d401c06dec$9f6cf000$2c45e4cf@C5477> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vasseur" To: "Drew Swenson" ; "KRNet" Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 1:46 PM Subject: Re: KR> wing foam > I've seen blue polystyrene (i.e. 2" construction foam from Home Depot) which > is sanded to shape on my plane. I've seen bigger blue polystyrene cores > hotwired to shape with lightening holes cutout, urethane sanded and prefab > wing skins. > > The prefab skins are the best finish and easiest to do, but you have to use > either polyester or vinylester which has a bad smell. (Your adhesive has to > be the same as the skins were made with). > > Urethane sands better than polystyrene but it can't be hotwired as it gives > off cyanide gas when heated. It is however fuel resistant. > > Polystyrene can be hotwired which gives a really nice finish if it's done > well, and can be sanded although sanding does make quite a mess. The foam > dust picks up a lot of static and sticks to absolutely everything. If you > use polystyrene then DO NOT put wing tanks in, or put in REMOVEABLE aluminum > tanks. Even a pinhole leak will dissolve the polystyrene and it will be in a > location where you won't see it. > > My wings are sanded 2" polystyrene sheets. If you go this way buy disposable > coveralls which you can take off and shake off outside in a light breeze. > Keep your shop vac handy because you'll want to clean up as you go. Foam > dust under the sanding stick will cause high spots. > > Sanding the foam isn't a really big deal, far less work than the fiberglass > work itself. Anything you do to make the foam as flawless as possible will > cut 3 times that many hours from filling and sanding fiberglass which is > much harder work. > > Brian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drew Swenson" > To: "KRNet" > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 9:19 PM > Subject: KR> wing foam > > > > What ((type)) and brand of foam should I use for wing construction? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:52:32 -0700 To: paul e spicer From: Ross Youngblood CC: "krnet@...." Subject: Re: KR> KR-2S about to start Message-ID: <3A45F190.CD460CFC@teleport.com> Paul, I made my table higher than normal so I wouldn't have to bend over to lay out the fuselage sides. This made it comfortable to work standing. Don't make it too tall as I was climbing all over my table when I did the fuselage side joining, and that worked out pretty well, you don't want to be hitting the ceiling of your work area while walking on the table either. I used Hexcel Structural adheasive which was cheaper than T88 at the time. I believe that they are now both owned by the same company... saw a photograph or somthing that made me think this. (I believe T88 has changed hands?). -- Ross paul e spicer wrote: > Hi to you all.I have read with interest the information passing from > one to another. I am delighted to be in contact even if some 12,000 > miles away. I would be grateful for some info on glues and resins and > also some advice regarding size of table to use in the workshop.The > instruction says 4x8ft particle board x2 fixed length-wise then cut to > size. How high - 3 ft? I reckon I shall have room for 12 x 4/5ft. > Is this enough? Thanks for all those of you who have had previous > experience. I'm trying not to re-invent the wheel A very Happy > Christmas & New Year.Take carePaul E. Spicer (Cairns, Australia) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:55:00 -0700 To: baleco@worldnet.att.net From: Ross Youngblood CC: KR Net Subject: Re: KR> wing construction Message-ID: <3A45F224.A41459CD@teleport.com> Marty, If you go to my personal site.... http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm, and click on "wings" you should see a photograph of my green urethane foam wing cores. These were glued to the ribs with a HOT glue gun, then sanded to shape with a long 2x4 with 80 grit sandpaper staple gunned or hog glued to the surface. However, some folks have used the blue foam and hot wired it.... which is not what the plans suggest, however it works as well and possibly better.... the best way to get SMOOTH wings is to BUY the skins from Rand... they are NICE. (I didn't). -- Ross Marty Hammersmith wrote: > I've visited KR site after KR site and still can't discern what is the > stock construction of the KR2 or KR2S wings if building from plans? Is > it blue styrene foam hotwired to match the ribs or polyeurothane foam > then sanded to match the ribs? > -- > Marty Hammersmith > > http://www.geocities.com/mhammersmith > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:55:54 -0700 To: Leonardo From: Ross Youngblood CC: Mark Langford , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> new kid on the block Message-ID: <3A45F25A.599BAC57@teleport.com> Congratulations! Terrific looking KR! -- Ross Leonardo wrote: > hello guys !!! > my plane is ready to fly and this is the cause of my non sleeping nigths i,m > very excited about it. > ckeck this out http://geocities.com/leoadrena/krpage.html > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 06:00:01 -0700 To: Kenneth L Wiltrout From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Flight test protocol Message-ID: <3A45F350.ADA8BCC3@teleport.com> Kenny, I think Eagle Gator (Rick Junkin) has a flight test document on his website http://www.members.aol.com/eaglegator If I'm not mistaken it has Test Cards in the appendix. Also there is a good book "Test Flying your homebuilt aircraft" available via the KRnet website at Amazon.com Proceeds support KRNET! Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > Is anyone able to help me with my flight test protocol that my DAR would > like me to put together? > In other words, I need to put a plan together that I will follow during > the flight test phase that will set my v-speeds etc. If anyone remembers > how they did it , it would be a big help. > Thanks to all that may respond!!!-----------------Kenny (N6399U) > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 07:13:34 -0700 To: Albert Pecoraro From: Ross Youngblood CC: kr2s group Subject: Re: KR> Tailwheel Springs Message-ID: <3A46048E.49C0E3DF@teleport.com> Albert, I used the same kit on mine... I will have to photograph it. I beileve I connected the chain to the tailwheel horn with AN hardware, using one of those cable thimble dealies... OK I looked it up AN115 shackles. I'd have to look outside at my plane.. Nope didn't use AN115. The chain is bolted to the tailwheel arm with an AN3 bolt and castillated nut with lockwasher. The other end of the spring assembly has a cable with AN100 cable thimble running through it and is nicopressed into place. Then the cable joins the rudder cable before the fairlead in the fuselage. I had the benefit of looking at a fellow EAA ers Arcoduster to see how it was supposed to look. -- Ross Albert Pecoraro wrote: > Netheads, > > Has anyone used compression springs on their tailwheels? If so, what is the proper procedure to connect the rudder crank arm to the tailwheel steering arm? > > The kit I bought includes 2 compression springs, 2 chains, and 4 links. > > Thanks for your help. > > A blessed holiday season to all of you. > > Albert Pecoraro > http://home.earthlink.net/~gryhponflier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:00:42 -0700 To: From: "Brian Vasseur" Subject: Tail twist Message-ID: <00cc01c06dec$93f6ac20$2c45e4cf@C5477> ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C06DB1.E76EA140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've jigged up the KR2 that I've purchased so I could go over it and = fixup what has been built already before I move on. First the front of vertical tail doesn't point exactly dead center, a = staight line comes to about 2" left of centre at the firewall. IT = appears that I may have to cut out the bulkhead where the front spar = glues into to bring this back to centre. This wasn't noticeable by = measuring as it appears that being out 1/16" would cause this. Has = anyone else run into this situation. Second, the right half of the horizontal stab lines up perfect, however = the left half twists down about 1/4". I suspect it may have been made = straight but picked up the twist when it was glued in. Again, not = noticeable when measuring, but a long string line does show this. Did = this happen to any of you. Finally, the original builder put in a 3/4" by 4" vertical stiffener at = the centre of the firewall. I haven't seen this in any of the = newsletters (I've got from 1974 thru to 1995). Does anybody know why I = shouldn't take this out? I plan to use a 2180vw. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C06DB1.E76EA140-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:27:39 -0600 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Spar Message-ID: <001101c06df8$baf66200$6ce579a5@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C06DC6.6F0C4080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the feedback yesterday on how exact to get the spars. I spent = another hour today on my rear center section. as5046 templates show a = height of 4.77". When I got mine to 4.72 to 4.78 I blocked them in and = epoxied the web on one side. Feel like I made some progress in the last = couple of days. Ed Blocher Moody, Alabama kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C06DC6.6F0C4080-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:39:55 -0700 To: "KR-Net" , "Corvaircraft" From: "Florin L Pintea" Subject: Merry Christmas! Message-ID: I would like to wish all of you and your families a very happy Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I would also like to thank everyone for being so helpful and patient with all of us "novices" and I wish you all a very fruitful year (specially in building your airplane). A lot of you will probably be flying your new airplane next year, I wish you good luck in doing so, and I'm sure we'll have lots to learn from you. Keep up the good work! Thanks, FLORIN L. PINTEA KR-2S SKUNKWORKS @ CALGARY, ALBERTA, CANADA mailto: florinpi@home.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************