From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Feb 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Issue 173 Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:07 AM krnet Digest 19 Feb 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Issue 173 Topics (messages 4084 through 4102): SUN & FUN 2001 4084 by: Frank Ross 4091 by: Linda Warner Re: Seat belt attachments on a KR2 4085 by: gleone 4086 by: Mark Langford 4087 by: Laheze.aol.com 4088 by: GARYKR2.cs.com 4089 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 4090 by: Dave and Tina Goodman 4092 by: Linda Warner 4093 by: DennisMingear.netscape.net 4096 by: Peter Nauta 4097 by: Krwr1.aol.com 4100 by: B. McCraw 4101 by: B. McCraw Oops 4094 by: Linda Warner Are you out there?? 4095 by: Mark Jones NASA ARC 277B 4098 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com H.S. bulkheads 4099 by: Timothy Brown New KR-2S site 4102 by: Florin L Pintea Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:45:24 -0800 (PST) To: krnet mailing lists From: Frank Ross Subject: SUN & FUN 2001 Message-ID: <20010217184524.3249.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> I'm going to Sun & Fun again this year. My car is too small to offer rides but, I would like to meet up with anyone else from the KRNet who might be there. Anyone going? Will there be a "KR get-together"? ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:45:01 -0500 (EST) To: kae_ar@yahoo.com (Frank Ross), krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Re: KR> SUN & FUN 2001 Message-ID: <899-3A8F372D-3239@storefull-227.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Hope you make it. I'll be there, but I'll usually be out at camper registration on the extreme NW corner of the airport. Virgil Salisbury from Miami is usually there. He normally can be found helping Mrs Rand at her booth. There has always been a KR dinner, usually held on Tue. night at the Holiday Inn in Lakeland. You can sign up for it at Rand Robinson's booth. Stop by the booth & meet Mrs Rand and sign up for the dinner. You'll meet a lot of builders and enthusiasts. John Sickafoose, Naples Fl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:59:02 -0700 To: BillStarrs From: gleone CC: pjvisc@netzero.net, Kenneth L Wiltrout , DHEATH@scana.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <3A8EC9F6.C029DEDB@tritel.net> I got on this mailing list because I will be starting my own plane sometime next year and think this might provide helpful information from other KR builders. But I do have a question regarding the topic of attaching the harness. Has anyone thought of simply asking Rand where he suggests attaching it? It would be a whole lot better than "Ouija-Engineering" it. BillStarrs wrote: > The tail wheel is about the safest place to make the attachment AND it must > come over the shoulder in a straight line NOT up and over, otherwise you > will suffer compression fractures of the spine. It happened to me 22 years > ago. I have 6 compressed vertebrae as a result. I survived the crash but am > about 1 inch shorter with lots of Arthritic pain. Happy ( and smooth ) > landings, Bill Starrs > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" > To: > Cc: ; > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 8:02 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 > > > I attached my shoulder harnesses to cables running to eye bolts that I > > drilled directly through the forward horiz stab spar and bulk head assy. > > I also reinforced this area above what the plans call for. As far as > > attaching to the shear web behind the seat, that area would also need a > > major tune up to give the pilot some level of safety. Either way it's a > > personal thing.----------------------------Kenny > > > > On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:57:25 -0500 pjvisc@netzero.net writes: > > > When you land your KR on top of another plane that is taking off, you > > > may > > > cut yourself in half or behead your self or some other means of self > > > mutilation. I thought the tail wheel was a good idea until I > > > received a KR > > > Newsletter with story about accident where pilot and wife were hurt > > > badly > > > because of belts to tailwheel arrangement. Newsletter was in > > > mid-80s. Of > > > course, we always see everything when landing , so this type of > > > accident > > > will not happen to us. > > > Will it ??? > > > > > > Phil Visconti > > > "HEATH, DANIEL R" wrote: > > > > > > > The only way I know of to attach seat belts on a KR2 is by cables > > > to the > > > > tailwheel. Does anyone know of any other ways that are safe? > > > > > > > > Daniel R. Heath > > > > DHeath@SCANA.com > > > > 803-217-9984 > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > Shop online without a credit card > > > http://www.rocketcash.com > > > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:38:00 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <003401c09919$233dd1e0$561cf618@600athlon> >Has > anyone thought of simply asking Rand where he suggests attaching it? It would > be a whole lot better than "Ouija-Engineering" it. It would take a Ouija board to talk to him, since he was killed in a KR accident in the late seventies. RR eventually published drawings for shoulder belt attachments a few years ago, and they are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/seat1.jpg and http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/seat2.jpg . Lap belt hard points are detailed in the plans, through the aft spar cap as already mentioned. Apparently you need to read the KR History, at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/khistory.html ... Mark Langford see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:57:25 EST To: gleone@tritel.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <91.703e470.27c031a5@aol.com> Ken Rand is dead. He was killed a whole bunch of years ago flying his KR2 in bad weather. Reports are he iced up and went in. I haven't looked at my plans lately but I don't think there were any instruction on shoulder harnesses. On RV6s and 6As they have a cable running back to an attachment that is riveted to a cross member and a side top longeron. That is one cable for each set of shoulder harnesses going back to a separate bracket, one on each outside intersection of the cross brace and top longeron. A triangular attachment. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:40:51 EST To: DHEATH@scana.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: In a message dated 2/16/01 9:56:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, DHEATH@scana.com writes: << The only way I know of to attach seat belts on a KR2 is by cables to the tailwheel. Does anyone know of any other ways that are safe? >> The belts in my "2" are attached to the rear spar. Each belt section has its own 4130 strap that fits around the entire spar. Looks like a cushion clamp without the rubber. These are the same shape as the spar. Don Reid is right. The entire restraint system should be attached to the cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay in one piece. If it comes apart, your D. S. anyway. Attaching to the tail is an easy fix, just not the best. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 19:22:48 -0500 To: From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: A few years ago, my freind and I put a shoulder harness attachment on a Teenie Two by putting a stiff place in the tail cone on the vertical stabilizer. Ol' Art put it down inbn some trees, crumpled the tail cone a bit, was a bit sore in the shoulders, and well enouugh to cuss a bit. I'm running my shoulder attaches from the tailwheel attach point, over the package shelf and then over my shoulders. Gary's right, no down load. Seat belts with a crotch strap if you really want to stay in the seat inverted. Staying in your seat while inverted is very nice, as you may be busy with more important tasks. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: GARYKR2@cs.com [mailto:GARYKR2@cs.com] Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 4:41 PM To: DHEATH@scana.com; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 In a message dated 2/16/01 9:56:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, DHEATH@scana.com writes: << The only way I know of to attach seat belts on a KR2 is by cables to the tailwheel. Does anyone know of any other ways that are safe? >> The belts in my "2" are attached to the rear spar. Each belt section has its own 4130 strap that fits around the entire spar. Looks like a cushion clamp without the rubber. These are the same shape as the spar. Don Reid is right. The entire restraint system should be attached to the cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay in one piece. If it comes apart, your D. S. anyway. Attaching to the tail is an easy fix, just not the best. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 17:46:25 -0800 To: "KR-POST" From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <002801c0994c$9cc208a0$ce44a6d1@oemcomputer> Gents, There are two competing issues when it comes to where to attach seat belts, or more accurately, shoulder harnesses. Here they are for comparison. > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay in > one piece. > The tail wheel is about the safest place to make the attachment AND it must > come over the shoulder in a straight line NOT up and over, otherwise you > will suffer compression fractures of the spine. While I do not want to take sides on a subject that could end up very charged with emotion, there are good points to both of these arguments. Each of us will have to consider this subject PURELY FROM THE SAFETY SIDE OF THE HOUSE. Having said that, I could not tell you which is the right answer, however, here is a short list of some things I personally consider important: 1 - Do I live in an area with many trees/obstructions on the ground that could tear my fuselage in two? (Yes, Washington state) 2 - How much impact energy do I expect the harness/seat belt/seat to absorb before failure in the vertical plane (potential for compression fractures)? 3 - Are the cross members behind and above my seat strong enough remain intact if I place the force generated from an impact on them (vertical and horizontal considered separately)? (Note that compression fractures are a result of forces parallel to the spine i.e. vertical, not horizontal) 4 - Has anyone been killed in a KR derivative from failure of their restraint system? What kind of impact was it (oblique, glancing, vertical)? 5 - Is there any data out there from other aircraft supporting either method as being better? Is this data based on mishap cases, or anecdotal opinion? As you can see, there are many factors that go into this decision. If I do not find a compelling reason not to in my research, I will install my restraints to the aft spar. This initial cut is based on my personal experience as an aviation mishap investigator and my assessment of injuries I have studied and seen in mishaps. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO NOT RESEARCH YOUR INSTALLATION YOURSELF, NOR AS AN ENDORSEMENT OF THIS METHOD FOR OTHER THAN MY PERSONAL AIRCRAFT! Something else worth noting. In the majority of cases, aircrew who eject from military aircraft receive compression fractures from the ejection seat. These forces can exceed ~300g for the first few milliseconds, with an average sustained g (depending on the seat) over ~10g. As John Wayne once remarked in a movie the experience "is pure rugged". I personally would accept the risk of compression fracture if my restraint system will keep me a) in the cockpit even if the airframe breaks up around me, b) will absorb a reasonable amount of energy before failure, and c) will not cause injury as a result of lack of strength. Good luck to all in their building efforts. Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:06:30 -0500 (EST) To: zipperts@whidbey.net (Dave and Tina Goodman), krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <899-3A8F3C36-3284@storefull-227.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Seems the consensus should be that one would want to be strapped to the part of the plane that he's closest to when it stops moving. A strong argument for not connecting the belts to the tail. I talked to Roger Hanson who had the misfortune of putting his KR on a road in a forced landing and striking a road sign which caused it to cart wheel. He said, when it was all over, all there was left was the center section & they were still strapped to it. I think he was glad his belts weren't connected to his tail! Like you said: it's still up to the builder. John Sickafoose, Naples Fl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:09:12 -0500 To: zipperts@whidbey.net From: DennisMingear@netscape.net Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <19412D6A.070CFC0C.5363BC18@netscape.net> A gentleman in Northern Ca landed his 0-200 modified KR on a street one day a few years ago. The shoulder harness was attached to the tailwheel. The aft part of the fuselage broke off leaving the occupant without a shoulder restraint system. His opinion at the time, secure shoulder harness in a part of the fuselage that will not snap off when the worst happens. Wasn't fatal BUT! Dennis ... "Dave and Tina Goodman" wrote: > > Gents, > > There are two competing issues when it comes to where to attach seat belts, > or more accurately, shoulder harnesses.  Here they are for comparison. > > > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay > in > > one piece. > > > The tail wheel is about the safest  place to make the attachment AND it > must > > come over the shoulder in a straight  line NOT up and over, otherwise you > > will suffer compression fractures of the spine. > > While I do not want to take sides on a subject that could end up very > charged with emotion, there are good points to both of these arguments. > Each of us will have to consider this subject PURELY FROM THE SAFETY SIDE OF > THE HOUSE.  Having said that, I could not tell you which is the right > answer, however, here is a short list of some things I personally consider > important: > > 1 - Do I live in an area with many trees/obstructions on the ground that > could tear my fuselage in two? (Yes, Washington state) > > 2 - How much impact energy do I expect the harness/seat belt/seat to absorb > before failure in the vertical plane (potential for compression fractures)? > > 3 -  Are the cross members behind and above my seat strong enough remain > intact if I place the force generated from an impact on them (vertical and > horizontal considered separately)?  (Note that compression fractures are a > result of forces parallel to the spine i.e. vertical, not horizontal) > > 4 - Has anyone been killed in a KR derivative from failure of their > restraint system?  What kind of impact was it (oblique, glancing, vertical)? > > 5 - Is there any data out there from other aircraft supporting either method > as being better?  Is this data based on mishap cases, or anecdotal opinion? > > As you can see, there are many factors that go into this decision. > > If I do not find a compelling reason not to in my research, I will install > my restraints to the aft spar.  This initial cut is based on my personal > experience as an aviation mishap investigator and my assessment of injuries > I have studied and seen in mishaps.  DO NOT TAKE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO NOT > RESEARCH YOUR INSTALLATION YOURSELF, NOR AS AN ENDORSEMENT OF THIS METHOD > FOR OTHER THAN MY PERSONAL AIRCRAFT! > > Something else worth noting.  In the majority of cases, aircrew who eject > from military aircraft receive compression fractures from the ejection seat. > These forces can exceed ~300g for the first few milliseconds, with an > average sustained g (depending on the seat) over ~10g.  As John Wayne once > remarked in a movie the experience "is pure rugged".  I personally would > accept the risk of compression fracture if my restraint system will keep me > a) in the cockpit even if the airframe breaks up around me, b) will absorb a > reasonable amount of energy before failure, and c) will not cause injury as > a result of lack of strength. > > Good luck to all in their building efforts. > > Respectfully, > Dave "Zipper" Goodman > zipperts@whidbey.net > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:10:35 +0100 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: RE: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: how about airbags? Anybody? > -----Original Message----- > From: DennisMingear@netscape.net [mailto:DennisMingear@netscape.net] > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 4:09 AM > To: zipperts@whidbey.net > Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 > > > A gentleman in Northern Ca landed his 0-200 modified KR on a > street one day a few years ago. The shoulder harness was attached > to the tailwheel. The aft part of the fuselage broke off leaving > the occupant without a shoulder restraint system. His opinion at > the time, secure shoulder harness in a part of the fuselage that > will not snap off when the worst happens. > > Wasn't fatal BUT! > > Dennis ... > > "Dave and Tina Goodman" wrote: > > > > Gents, > > > > There are two competing issues when it comes to where to attach > seat belts, > > or more accurately, shoulder harnesses.  Here they are for comparison. > > > > > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > > > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and > should stay > > in > > > one piece. > > > > > The tail wheel is about the safest  place to make the > attachment AND it > > must > > > come over the shoulder in a straight  line NOT up and over, > otherwise you > > > will suffer compression fractures of the spine. > > > > While I do not want to take sides on a subject that could end up very > > charged with emotion, there are good points to both of these arguments. > > Each of us will have to consider this subject PURELY FROM THE > SAFETY SIDE OF > > THE HOUSE.  Having said that, I could not tell you which is the right > > answer, however, here is a short list of some things I > personally consider > > important: > > > > 1 - Do I live in an area with many trees/obstructions on the ground that > > could tear my fuselage in two? (Yes, Washington state) > > > > 2 - How much impact energy do I expect the harness/seat > belt/seat to absorb > > before failure in the vertical plane (potential for compression > fractures)? > > > > 3 -  Are the cross members behind and above my seat strong enough remain > > intact if I place the force generated from an impact on them > (vertical and > > horizontal considered separately)?  (Note that compression > fractures are a > > result of forces parallel to the spine i.e. vertical, not horizontal) > > > > 4 - Has anyone been killed in a KR derivative from failure of their > > restraint system?  What kind of impact was it (oblique, > glancing, vertical)? > > > > 5 - Is there any data out there from other aircraft supporting > either method > > as being better?  Is this data based on mishap cases, or > anecdotal opinion? > > > > As you can see, there are many factors that go into this decision. > > > > If I do not find a compelling reason not to in my research, I > will install > > my restraints to the aft spar.  This initial cut is based on my personal > > experience as an aviation mishap investigator and my assessment > of injuries > > I have studied and seen in mishaps.  DO NOT TAKE THIS AS AN > EXCUSE TO NOT > > RESEARCH YOUR INSTALLATION YOURSELF, NOR AS AN ENDORSEMENT OF > THIS METHOD > > FOR OTHER THAN MY PERSONAL AIRCRAFT! > > > > Something else worth noting.  In the majority of cases, aircrew > who eject > > from military aircraft receive compression fractures from the > ejection seat. > > These forces can exceed ~300g for the first few milliseconds, with an > > average sustained g (depending on the seat) over ~10g.  As John > Wayne once > > remarked in a movie the experience "is pure rugged".  I personally would > > accept the risk of compression fracture if my restraint system > will keep me > > a) in the cockpit even if the airframe breaks up around me, b) > will absorb a > > reasonable amount of energy before failure, and c) will not > cause injury as > > a result of lack of strength. > > > > Good luck to all in their building efforts. > > > > Respectfully, > > Dave "Zipper" Goodman > > zipperts@whidbey.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:27:53 EST To: zipperts@whidbey.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <3c.79b9834.27c127d9@aol.com> In a message dated 02/17/2001 8:47:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, zipperts@whidbey.net writes: << > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay in > one piece. >> Check out my web page, if you haven't yet, you will see, in a hard impact, strapped in to the main spar is the way to go. Bill Reents http://www.twocom.com/billskr/ krwr1@aol.com Youngstown Ohio USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:42:44 -0500 To: , , From: "B. McCraw" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <001001c09a1d$a36358e0$9f70e218@nimc1.on.home.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 > In a message dated 02/17/2001 8:47:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > zipperts@whidbey.net writes: > > << > > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay > in > > one piece. >> > Check out my web page, if you haven't yet, you will see, in a hard impact, > strapped in to the main spar is the way to go. > > Bill Reents > http://www.twocom.com/billskr/ > > krwr1@aol.com > Youngstown Ohio > USA > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:57:41 -0500 To: , , From: "B. McCraw" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <001501c09a28$20a30da0$9f70e218@nimc1.on.home.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 > In a message dated 02/17/2001 8:47:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > zipperts@whidbey.net writes: > > << > > The entire restraint system should be attached to the > > cabin area. This is the strongest portion of the fuselage and should stay > in > > one piece. >> > Hi Netters: I agree that the restraint system should be attached to the cabin area. My many years' experience as a race car designer allows me to look at the restraint system from the point of survivability. Race car designs are developed to provide a safety cocoon for the driver, protecting him/her in the event of a crash by absorbing energy by the use of crumple zones, or by progressively breaking apart. Many solutions to this problem have been tried successfully but the end result is always the same, the driver should remain protected from his violent environment (it is impossible to provide total protection as evidenced by the results of today's Daytona 500). Having said that several points need to be looked at in the KR restraint system. a: lap belts should be attached to the strongest part of the cockpit, the spars. b: shoulder belts need to be attached so they pull only a small amount below the horizontal line of the top of the shoulders. The KR design needs to be looked at in this area. The post by Mark Langford regarding the analysis done here should point us in the right direction. Prudent design here will attach the belts to the area that provides the proper strength, and pulls at the proper angle to help prevent spine compression, and attaches to an area that will still be part of the most important package when the dust settles. c: An anti-submarine or crotch belt should be included in the package. This will be balked at by many, probably the same ones that don't like shoulder restraints, but in the event of a not-too-heavy frontal hit, this belt will hurt a bit but will prevent you from being rolled up in a ball down by the rudder pedals. Like all safety improvements, design changes here will most assuredly add cost, design/build time and weight, but it's the builder's call, and I for one am certainly not going to tell anyone how they should make it. What I would ask builders to do is educate yourselves to the choices in this critical area. Study other designs, auto racing sanctions have very strict rules and looking at their guidelines would provide many good ideas to help improve this area. Happy building......Safe flying Bill McCraw ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:17:14 -0500 (EST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Oops Message-ID: <904-3A8F3EBA-1156@storefull-227.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Please excuse my slip on my last 2 posts. Seems I should have hit "fwd" instead of "reply", that way the text I was referring to would have been sent along. John Sickafoose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:40:50 -0600 To: CorvAIRCRAFT , KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: Are you out there?? Message-ID: <3A8F6062.6A08D8B1@execpc.com> If there are any KR or CorvAIRCRAFT builders in the vicinity of Destin, Florida please contact me direct at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com as I will be in that area in a few weeks and would like to visit. Thanks in advance. -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:06:06 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: NASA ARC 277B Message-ID: --part1_a7.bd587eb.27c130ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several people have e-mail me privately about the pilots "get out of jail free" form. I'll post it here for all to read about. I'll quote quite a bit directly from the form. NASA established the Aviation Safety Reporting System to identify issues in the aviation system which needed to be addressed for safety reasons. FAA circular 00-46C addresses the program of which this form is part of. For any event, or incident or situation where criminal intent or fraud was not involved one can avoid having his privileges suspended by the FAA if you timely file the form 277B, and self report the incident or violation. Some of the more common violations would unauthorized flight into controlled airspace, runway incursions, VFR weather violations and so on. You can still be violated but your privileges will not be suspended. Once again accidents do not fall under this. Section 91.25 of the FAR (14 CFR 91.25) prohibits reports filed with NASA from being used for FAA enforcement purposes. The report will not be made available to the FAA for civil penalty or certificate actions for violations of FARs. Most commercial operator I know now days carry a couple of these forms in their flight bags. Case in point. A local CFI who flies out of our 141 flight school was on a short cross country with a student. The student got well off course to the north. The CFI knew it and let him proceed to see if he would discover his mistake. Not thinking, he allowed the student to penetrate Ft. Knox's live fire restricted area. They had to shut down the range. He was contacted by Louisville approach and instructed to call the tower. To make a long story short, he called FSDO who told him form 277B didn't apply here. It does. He filed the form and simply had to take a CFI refresher course in cross country techniques. He was to leave shortly thereafter for a 135 job where any license revocation would have been devastating. It works, carry one. Request the forms from NASA AVIATION SAFETY REPORTING SYSTEM POST OFFICE BOX 189\ MOFFETT FIELD, CALIFORNIA 94035-0189 If you are a member of AOPA, which I truly recommend if for nothing more than the legal services section, you can download the form from aopa.org. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ --part1_a7.bd587eb.27c130ce_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:05:46 -0800 (PST) To: Group KR NET From: Timothy Brown Subject: H.S. bulkheads Message-ID: <20010218230546.70070.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Net: I am beginning to work on the H.S. spars and I have come across a problem with the rear spar. The front spar fits between two 3/32" bulkheads...no prob. But Sheet A of the 2S seems to indicate that the rear bulkhead should be 1/4" ply (at least it measures this way on the plans). Sheet A also shows a 36" doubler on the spar on the top view, but the doubler does not show up on the side view. Pg 17 of the manual seems to indicate 3/32" bulkhead. The doubler was not used at that time as it is now on the 2S. QUESTIONS: How are you all reconciling these apparent conflicts? Are you using 3/32 or 1/4 bulkhead? What about the doubler....where does that meet/mate with the bulkhead? Pg 17 shows the bulkhead rising to the top of the spar similar to the forward H.S. spar. Are you all epoxying the bulkhead to the doubler? Thanks much for the help. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:07:12 -0700 To: "KR-Net" , "Corvaircraft" From: "Florin L Pintea" Subject: New KR-2S site Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C09A64.1BF4A980 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C09A64.1BF4A980" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C09A64.1BF4A980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fellow builders, Since it looks dreadfully slow here in the past few days I have decided to do this. It may give you something to do if you’re bored. For the past few months I’ve toying around with building a web site dedicated to my KR project. Since I haven’t done this before, everything I’ ve done to it couldn’t quite make me happy because I know it’s not quite perfect. Several weeks ago I have got to a point where I have realized it will never be perfect. And since it’s an ongoing project it will be under construction for the next few years anyway. So I decided to release it anyway and let you people help me out with your constructive criticism, which I know you are quite capable of. The “Starter and Alternator” chapter is still under construction. Mind you, all I have to do is scan and insert the pictures but I’ve been busy lately with building (I may do this today). The “Fuel Injection” chapter is in the R&D department right now and there will be material added as I progress. NOTE! In the event that anyone has any objections about some of the pictures or links on my site (that belong to them) please advise me, and they will be removed. Happy building! FLORIN L. PINTEA KR-2S SKUNKWORKS @ CALGARY, ALBERTA, CANADA Visit my web pages at http://frontpage.home.net/florinpi/ mailto: florinpi@home.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C09A64.1BF4A980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fellow builders,

 

Since it looks dreadfully slow here in the past few days I = have decided to do this. It may give you something to do if you’re = bored.

For the past few months I’ve toying around with = building a web site dedicated to my KR project. Since I haven’t done this before, = everything I’ve done to it couldn’t quite make me happy because I know it’s = not quite perfect. Several weeks ago I have got to a point where I have realized it will = never be perfect. And since it’s an ongoing project it will be under = construction for the next few years anyway. So I decided to release it anyway and let you = people help me out with your constructive criticism, which I know you are quite capable of.

The “Starter and Alternator” chapter is still = under construction. Mind you, all I have to do is scan and insert the pictures but = I’ve been busy lately with building (I may do this today). =

The “Fuel Injection” chapter is in the R&D = department right now and there will be material added as I = progress.

 

NOTE!<= /font>

 =

In the event that anyone has any objections about some of = the pictures or links on my site (that belong to them) please advise me, and they = will be removed.

 

Happy building!

 

 

FLORIN L. = PINTEA

 

KR-2S SKUNKWORKS @ CALGARY, = ALBERTA, CANADA

 

Visit my web pages at http://frontpage.home.net/fl= orinpi/

 

mailto: florinpi@home.com

 

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