From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 1 Mar 2001 07:08:33 -0000 Issue 182 Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:08 PM krnet Digest 1 Mar 2001 07:08:33 -0000 Issue 182 Topics (messages 4343 through 4372): Re: Alternate choices, Ragwing 4343 by: KMcKen1.aol.com 4372 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien donation? 4344 by: CS Re: Props 4345 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout test 4346 by: rfarmer thread engagement 4347 by: rfarmer Use of Lycoming O-235 4348 by: Alexander Gutierrez Re: More BRS/chute stuff - Who has a BRS installed? 4349 by: EagleGator.aol.com ICOM Handheld 4350 by: KMcKen1.aol.com VW vs. Porsche 914 4351 by: CS Wheels 4352 by: Aripo Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR 4353 by: Dave and Tina Goodman 4365 by: Dave and Tina Goodman 4367 by: Edwin Blocher 4369 by: Mark Jones 4371 by: Frank Ross Re: BMW engine 4354 by: Greg S Martin 4357 by: Greg S Martin Glen Lacy 4355 by: Donald Reid Lycoming O-235 4356 by: Frank Ross threads 4358 by: rfarmer 4366 by: Edwin Blocher KR2S Design Analysis and Structural Integrity 4359 by: Christian Kogelmann Re: BMW engine (longer explanation) 4360 by: Peter Nauta KR-1 Gear 4361 by: R.M. Obrey 4362 by: Frank Ross Duct collapse 4363 by: Frank Ross KR gross weight 4364 by: Manager Bill bolts and other stuff 4368 by: Manager Bill 2001 KR Gathering at Pine Bluff, Arkansas 4370 by: Wayland T Stokes Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:45:32 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KMcKen1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Alternate choices, Ragwing Message-ID: <21.801311b.27cd961c@aol.com> --part1_21.801311b.27cd961c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a set of plans to a Ragwing PT2S that I am working on. I am trying to decide which airfoil to use to get better performance. I was considering the 23012 but Mark Langford told me that the stall characteristics are not good. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have redesignes several things on this plane, not structural just astetics. If anyone would like more info on this sinmple to build plane, email me directly. Keith Ft. Myers, FL. --part1_21.801311b.27cd961c_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:12:33 -0800 To: KMcKen1@aol.com,krnet@mailinglists.org From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: Re: KR> Alternate choices, Ragwing Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20010228231233.007393f8@localaccess.com> Keith, unless you plan to skin the wing you should stick with a turbulent airfoil such as the Riblett GA30U-613.5 or the GA30U-A415. Harry Riblett's book GA Airfoils is available from the EAA. Tracy O'Brien PS: The TEAM MiniMax airfoil that Roger copped (along with the drawings) is probably not a bad airfoil either. At 06:45 PM 02/27/2001 EST, KMcKen1@aol.com wrote: >I have a set of plans to a Ragwing PT2S that I am working on. I am trying to >decide which airfoil to use to get better performance. I was considering the >23012 but Mark Langford told me that the stall characteristics are not good. >Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have redesignes several things on >this plane, not structural just astetics. If anyone would like more info on >this sinmple to build plane, email me directly. > >Keith >Ft. Myers, FL. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:46:05 -0800 (PST) To: doc , krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: donation? Message-ID: <20010227234605.16663.qmail@web2304.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Doc, : > My group just received a KR-2, 50% completed as a > donation. ----------------------------- Please send me relevant IRS code sections on setting up as a non-profit. Thanks. CS PS--My guess as easiest is a ready to roll Revmaster or HAPI VW engine, there's quite a few on the net. But that's opinion, wait to hear from the guys who actually know whereof they speak.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:55:16 -0500 To: GARYKR2@cs.com From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Cc: carterkr2s1@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Props Message-ID: <20010227.185517.-244411.0.klw1953@juno.com> I bought mine from Culver props. They are located near the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon in Galeton. I drove up there to place the order, then picked it up in about 2 wks. The prop is beautiful and he will re pitch it one time for free. Provided it needs to be cut down, he can't add wood though. N6399U--------Kenny On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:11:47 EST GARYKR2@cs.com writes: > In a message dated 2/25/01 12:24:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, > carterkr2s1@home.com writes: > > << Who has the best Price on props > I have a quote from Ed Sterba of $500 and Bernard Warnke info is in > the > mail so they said. >> > > Try Props Inc. and Culver props. Look in the classifieds in the > back of > Sport Aviation. > These two guys have good prices and nice props. > Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. > garykr2@cs.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:42:46 -0500 To: From: "rfarmer" Subject: test Message-ID: <002201c0a11f$7cc33580$f74462d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0A0F5.7548A260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable test ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0A0F5.7548A260-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:51:18 -0500 To: From: "rfarmer" Subject: thread engagement Message-ID: <005b01c0a120$90521de0$f74462d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C0A0F6.A68050C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: rfarmer To: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:48 PM From a posting in the last day or so I thought there might be some = people who whould like to know this info. hope it helps someone. to get full strength from your fasteners you need 1 & 1/2 times the = major dia. or ,3/8 engagement for a 1/4 dia. bolt. ie 1 / 28 =3D.0357 = .375 / .0357 =3D 10.5 threads works for all dia. just use the maj. dia. & thread pitch. =20 Bob Farmer ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C0A0F6.A68050C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:28:21 -0400 To: From: "Alexander Gutierrez" Subject: Use of Lycoming O-235 Message-ID: <00a901c0a11d$5f104840$717c23c8@c> ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C0A0FB.D3E7E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to everybody in the KR-Net, this is the first time I sent out a = message. I am about to finish building a KR-2S and currently, I have = the opportunity of accepting a partner for the project who is offering a = Lycoming O-235 engine for his part. Can any of you tell me if this = engine is a good fit for the KR-2S and provide references ? Thanks in advance to those who respond. Alexander ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C0A0FB.D3E7E780-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:47:30 EST To: jalan@axion.net, donreid@erols.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> More BRS/chute stuff - Who has a BRS installed? Message-ID: --part1_fc.2e7f46e.27cdc0c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/01 5:22:12 PM Central Standard Time, jalan@axion.net writes: > What I have missed in the discussion on chute deployment is the following: > > 1) Flight into weather over hostile terrain ( remember Ken's mishap ?) > > 2) Engine failure over hostile terrain. > I was only discussing the use of a parachute or BRS from the perspective of flight testing. You must ensure the weather and terrain during the test period are adequate to allow you to execute your test plan safely, to include emergency procedures/landings, so I overlooked those factors. But for standard cross country flying, the situations you mentioned are definite considerations. I would suggest that there are better ways to mitigate those risks than resorting to bailing out (or deploying a BRS), but that gets into a whole different discussion. Planning a way to stay with the airplane is almost always a preferable option, unless you have an ejection seat. (Again, a whole different discussion) Once the flight testing is complete and the aircraft is proved, I wouldn't want to wear a personal parachute to fly on a regular basis. That's another advantage of the BRS, in this case, as it is a permanent part of the aircraft. I know I've seen pictures of someone's BRS installation, but I can't remember where. I know you're out there somewhere, how about giving us some details, or pointing us to your web site? Thanks! Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part1_fc.2e7f46e.27cdc0c2_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:54:01 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KMcKen1@aol.com Subject: ICOM Handheld Message-ID: --part1_d3.1113c4e5.27cdc249_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't seem to find my owners manual for my IC-A22. Does anyone know if this can be downloaded from a site? Thank, Keith --part1_d3.1113c4e5.27cdc249_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:40:18 -0800 (PST) To: GARYKR2@cs.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: VW vs. Porsche 914 Message-ID: <20010228034018.1655.qmail@web2306.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've been scouting around for an engine and came across a 2.0 (I think) Porsche 914 engine, came out of a dune buggy, "running when pulled" (aren't they all?), guy's asking $400.00. I'm not planning to trick this engine, just tear it down to make sure it's within limits. It only has one or two accessories, carb and I think starter. What I'm wondering is am I gonna get jacked around buying aftermarket parts/accessories for this thing because it says "Porsche" on it? Also, does anyone know if weight/horsepower is going to be similar to a VW? Thanks. Chuck --- GARYKR2@cs.com wrote: > Does anybody have a set of drawings for a > Mitchell B10 by any wild chance. > I need to make a new fuselage/cage for my > brother-in-laws bird. He built > it about 20yrs ago and cant find the drawings. > The plans are not sold any more. So they have to > be found used. > Gary Hinkle (A/P) > Middletown, Pa. > > garykr2@cs.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:56:45 +0100 To: "KRnet" From: "Aripo" Subject: Wheels Message-ID: <005901c0a16e$3f7ff9c0$cc821997@aripo> ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A175.242194C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi=20 If someone want to check these italian website for wheels I have these wheels on my KR ( 5.00 - 5 ) www.marc-ingegno.it Ciao Franco Negri I-KRFN ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A175.242194C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:01:37 -0800 To: "KR-POST" From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Subject: Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR Message-ID: <002d01c0a1a8$1e653220$6245a6d1@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0A165.0EB844E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellow builders, I received two crates yesterday. The first contained my Corvair engine from William Wynne. I have to = tell you, my first impression, just from the crate, was that this was = going to be a great looking engine! William built this crate to go to = the ends of the earth and back. Upon opening it, I was not = disappointed, either. I now have an immaculate Corvair motor sitting in my garage, waiting = only for me to finish other parts of the plane to be poured over and = installed. The engine is spotless, and looks factory new. There are a = few parts that still need to get sent, but the majority of the engine is = here. I am very pleased with this motor! The second crate was pregs and a canopy from Rand Robinson. They also = are beautiful. I would recommend them to anyone that is building close = to the KR-2S original dimensions. The only change I personally made to = the fuselage was to maintain the width (per plans) another 12 inches aft = before tapering to the tail. The turtledeck is honeycomb but flexible = enough to probably spread another inch or so past the design width = (opinion only, as I do not have to do this). Just wanted to post an update on parts/engines available for folks out = there. I am happy with everything I received. Good luck in your building Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net =20 ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0A165.0EB844E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:35:52 -0800 To: "Donald Hamm" From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Cc: "KR-POST" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR Message-ID: <001d01c0a1ef$f514a340$9f44a6d1@oemcomputer> I took some pictures of the engine in the crate, but it will take me a little time to get them developed and scanned. I am not warp speed like many of you on the net, but will give it a whirl. As far as cost, William and I are still working out all the details, due to some of the specifics I asked him for. Your mileage may vary, but the engine (ready to go, with accessories) and motor mount for a KR-2S will come in around ~$3700.00 or so. I can be more specific when I have all the custom pieces here and the last check is signed. Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Hamm To: Dave and Tina Goodman Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > I am a KR2 builder could you put some pictures on the internet so we all can > see.All so what did it cost? > Don Hamm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" > To: "KR-POST" > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:01 AM > Subject: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:33:50 -0600 To: "Dave and Tina Goodman" , "Donald Hamm" From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: "KR-POST" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR Message-ID: <004601c0a1ef$ac830fe0$7ae579a5@computer> oops make that 1/4"-1/4" Ed Blocher Moody, Alabama kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave and Tina Goodman To: Donald Hamm Cc: KR-POST Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > I took some pictures of the engine in the crate, but it will take me a > little time to get them developed and scanned. I am not warp speed like > many of you on the net, but will give it a whirl. > > As far as cost, William and I are still working out all the details, due to > some of the specifics I asked him for. Your mileage may vary, but the > engine (ready to go, with accessories) and motor mount for a KR-2S will come > in around ~$3700.00 or so. I can be more specific when I have all the > custom pieces here and the last check is signed. > > Respectfully, > Dave "Zipper" Goodman > zipperts@whidbey.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Hamm > To: Dave and Tina Goodman > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > > > > I am a KR2 builder could you put some pictures on the internet so we all > can > > see.All so what did it cost? > > Don Hamm > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" > > To: "KR-POST" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:01 AM > > Subject: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:45:28 -0600 To: Dave and Tina Goodman From: Mark Jones CC: Donald Hamm , KR-POST Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR Message-ID: <3A9DC5D8.68249DBE@execpc.com> Dave, Did you get a motor mount from William with the engine? Mark Jones Dave and Tina Goodman wrote: > I took some pictures of the engine in the crate, but it will take me a > little time to get them developed and scanned. I am not warp speed like > many of you on the net, but will give it a whirl. > > As far as cost, William and I are still working out all the details, due to > some of the specifics I asked him for. Your mileage may vary, but the > engine (ready to go, with accessories) and motor mount for a KR-2S will come > in around ~$3700.00 or so. I can be more specific when I have all the > custom pieces here and the last check is signed. > > Respectfully, > Dave "Zipper" Goodman > zipperts@whidbey.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Hamm > To: Dave and Tina Goodman > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > > > I am a KR2 builder could you put some pictures on the internet so we all > can > > see.All so what did it cost? > > Don Hamm > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" > > To: "KR-POST" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:01 AM > > Subject: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:59:28 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Corvair engines and William Wynne and RR Message-ID: <20010301055928.28808.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> > I took some pictures of the engine in the crate, > Respectfully, > Dave "Zipper" Goodman Dave, How long did it take from the time you first ordered to reciept? ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:33:13 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Greg S Martin Subject: Re: KR> BMW engine Message-ID: <20010228.093314.-241061.0.idrawtobuild@juno.com> Steve Eberhart writes: >Saw the article and was impressed. Especially since I am building >a Cherry. I have always thought the BMW engine would be a good > candidate for small planes like the KR, Cherry, Europa, etc. I won't >have my scanner back for another week but would be glad to scan >it for you then. > Steve Eberhart I know that I'm hearing that the BMW is being used for airplane engines. And that makes me wonder what kind of weight & power this 1100 puts out and at what RPM. Then I look at the Honda Goldwing knowing that Sandpiper air has tested these engines and has come up with power and weight figures. It has only been on a test stand but they know that the GL1200 ('84-'87) were real good engines. I bought a set of plans from Sandpiperaire and have found it real easy to set up. Yes, some people have already said that they thought that it wouldn't be a very good deal. But I hardly see much difference between Honda & BMW. I guess I'm just thinking out loud. Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 20909 South Street, Suite #3 Tehachapi, California 93561 work 661-823-9401, fax 823-9381 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:25:51 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Greg S Martin Cc: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> BMW engine Message-ID: <20010228.102552.-241061.3.idrawtobuild@juno.com> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:54:15 EST JEHayward@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 2/28/01 10:37:06 AM Mountain Standard Time, > idrawtobuild@juno.com writes: > > << Then I look at the Honda Goldwing knowing that Sandpiper air has > tested > these engines and has come up with power and weight figures. It > has > only been on a test stand but they know that the GL1200 ('84-'87) > were > real good engines. >> > > Greg, what kind of power do they say you're looking at and > what sort of redrive system, i.e. cog belt or what? I know I've > > been impressed with my '81 Gold Wing that I've had since '85 > so wouldn't think twice about using it in aviation. I even > thought > one could use the transmission as a PSRU but was told that > wouldn't work very well due to prop loads. I'd also heard that > > the engine was a bit heavy for it's power output. > > Jim Hayward > Rapid City, SD Jim Yes, you use 2nd gear and take out 1st - 3rd - 4th and 5th gears. Remove the clutch and then you use a VW front wheel brake plate to mount a short drive line and bolt to the engine. i. e. no thrush on the engine. The GL1200 produces about 96hp and 74fpt. The weight without a prop is around 228# with starter, alternator and cooling system. I'd like to compare this to the BMW. Yes, it's water cooled. But I've lose a turbo charger at 12500 and the 'air' cooled engine suffered 'shock cooling' which cracked the front two cylinders and rings. So, for that reason I'm not apposed to water cooling. Call me this evening at home if you want more info. I'll pull out the plans and info on the testing. Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com 20909 South Street, Suite #3 Tehachapi, California 93561 work 661-823-9401, fax 823-9381 home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:16:03 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Glen Lacy Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010228131441.009f21c0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_424757==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sorry to waste the band width, but I am trying to reach Glen Lacy from Lynchburg Va. Please contact me off the network. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org --=====================_424757==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:22:42 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Lycoming O-235 Message-ID: <20010228182242.4097.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Lycoming O-235 engine ...is (this)a good fit for the KR-2S and provide references ? Alexander Alexander, I don't know anything about this engine, but there'a a good website that gives weights and horsepower at: http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/engines.html#Engines3 http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/engines.html#Engines2 If I read the chart right, the O-235 is 115hp and 240lbs, which makes it about 40lbs heavier than an O-200 and about 15 hp stronger. The O-200 is used successfully in KRs. Good luck, ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:43:40 -0500 To: From: "rfarmer" Subject: threads Message-ID: <003501c0a1c7$22717a80$754562d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A19D.38E2D0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From a posting in the last day or so I thought there might be some = people who whould like to know this info. hope it helps someone. to get full strength from your fasteners you need 1 & 1/2 times the = major dia. or ,3/8 engagement for a 1/4 dia. bolt. ie 1 / 28 =3D.0357 = .375 / .0357 =3D 10.5 threads works for all dia. just use the maj. dia. & thread pitch. =20 Bob Farmer ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A19D.38E2D0E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:31:32 -0600 To: "rfarmer" , From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> threads Message-ID: <003c01c0a1ef$59c7dce0$7ae579a5@computer> Bob, I sat here for 30 minutes thinking about answering your post. I want to know if I have been wrong for 40 years. All my engineering books say Thread engagement equals thread dia. ie: 1/4" dia.-1/4' full thread contact. Most nuts come the same thickness as the bolt dia. Where am I going wrong here? Ed Ed Blocher Moody, Alabama kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rfarmer To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: KR> threads From a posting in the last day or so I thought there might be some people who whould like to know this info. hope it helps someone. to get full strength from your fasteners you need 1 & 1/2 times the major dia. or ,3/8 engagement for a 1/4 dia. bolt. ie 1 / 28 =.0357 .375 / .0357 = 10.5 threads works for all dia. just use the maj. dia. & thread pitch. Bob Farmer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:21:39 +0100 To: From: "Christian Kogelmann" Subject: KR2S Design Analysis and Structural Integrity Message-ID: <01b701c0a1c6$2f092960$9d1b2e3e@aptivacomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C0A1CC.702BE8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters, I am building a stock KR2S Serial Nr. 285 (Great Plains VW 2180cc) in = Austria (Europe). I am about 85% finished and plan to install my website = later on in March. To date I have only read your interesting = discussions. This is my first request for help. Building in Europe is bureaucratic. There is only one finished KR2 in = Austria, but no KR2S. Thats reason enough for the Austrian CAA to call = for a safe load condition check at 3.8g on the lower wing surface = (sandbag my poor little airplane). My question to you is, does anyone have a wing loading plan of the KR2S = or did someone do the test and write a protocol about it.=20 Or does anyone know of an article on the KR2S, similar to the one that = appeared in the January 88 edition of Sport Aviation (Neil Bingham; = Design Analysis of the KR2) All replies would be appreciated as you might save me from tipping my = airplane upside down and put a lot of sandbags on it. Chris KR2S OE-VPD ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C0A1CC.702BE8A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:31:16 +0100 To: "Greg S Martin" , "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: RE: KR> BMW engine (longer explanation) Message-ID: Greg, (check all info with Renny, as almost all this is hearsay) The article in the december 2000 issue of custom planes should give you a good idea. Basically it boils down to this: It's a BMW 2 cylinder 4 stroke boxer motor as used in the BMW motorcycle. It uses a mix of air and oil cooling governed by oil temperature. It is a modern design, developed from the original BMW boxer dating back from 1928. It uses a Bosch Motronic Motor Management unit for ignition and fuel injection, with features like closed loop emission control feedback using a lambda sensor. It weighs approx 85Kgs. Here's the specs, right off the BMW site: Motor Type 2-cylinder 4-stroke boxer motor Valves 4 per cylinder Displacement 1085 cc Bore and stroke 99,0 mm x 70,5 mm Power 72kW (98pk) at 7500/min Torsion 97 Nm bij 5750/min Compression ratio 11,3 : 1 Cooling air/oil Distribution HC Fuel injection / Motor Management Bosch Motronic MA 2.4 Katalysator 3-way Electrical installation Dynamo AC dynamo (600W) Battery 12 V / 14 Ah Fuel consumption at 90 km/h 4,3 l / 100 km at 120 km/h 5,2 l / 100 km The engine is then converted by adding a centrifugal clutch and reduction drive as a unit. The reduction drive is a gear system. There's damping built into the system, so a prop hub is provided or can be put on straight away. Renny flies his plane using a variable pitch prop, but his friend also has a Cherry using a fixed pitch. Renny's plane does 142 kts max and Bart Kroes gets 150 with the fixed pitch. Renny tells me that the engine uses 10 liter per hour cruise and 13 liter per hour max. 80 liters fuel capcity gives him 7 hrs endurance. The engine is acquired from Takeoff for NLG 16.000.- which must be approx US$ 6.700.-. Here's the address: Wilfried Bleidiesel Takeoff BMW Propellor Betrieb Christinenweg 15 59069 Hamm Germany Tel +49 (0)2381-50877 Fax +49 (0)2381-52355 Renny de Leeuw has flown his Cherry on various engines, including a 80HP Limbach 2.0L. He upgraded to the BMW engine because he felt the need for more power during those warm afternoon takkeoffs. He had to prove the concept to the Dutch authorities (RLD) and did extensive research and testing. He proved the emergency programme of the Motronic. He designed his own exhaust system (well actually 14 versions of them) and went through a lot of trouble before getting all the problems ironed out. Now he has done over 250 hrs on this engine, including trips to Marocco from Holland. This implementation has now proven itself, as far as I am concerned. The plane will undergo noise testing soon, as this is required for our planes. I heard and saw the engine run, and, although it hadn't even reached operating temperature, it ran very smooth. I just spoke to Renny, and he will answer your questions directly (mailto:renny.de.leeuw@de-leeuw.nl). I think I will put some photo's on the net for you as soon as I get a chance to visit his plane again (30 march) at EHLE. I will also translate some or most of the stuff he wrote if needed. It makes for interesting reading, and there's some nice technical data included from his flight testing programme. Let me know if there's interest for that. I will be using this engine in my KR2-S. I welcome peer comments, so tell me what you think. Regards, Groeten, / Regards, Peter Nauta p.nauta@wanadoo.nl +31(0)6 51411018 Fax: 020 8663552 http://www.fs2000.nl > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg S Martin [mailto:idrawtobuild@juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:33 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> BMW engine > > > Steve Eberhart writes: > > >Saw the article and was impressed. Especially since I am building > >a Cherry. I have always thought the BMW engine would be a good > > candidate for small planes like the KR, Cherry, Europa, etc. I won't > >have my scanner back for another week but would be glad to scan > >it for you then. > > > Steve Eberhart > > I know that I'm hearing that the BMW is being used for airplane engines. > And that makes me wonder what kind of weight & power this 1100 puts > out and at what RPM. > > Then I look at the Honda Goldwing knowing that Sandpiper air has tested > these engines and has come up with power and weight figures. It has > only been on a test stand but they know that the GL1200 ('84-'87) were > real good engines. > > I bought a set of plans from Sandpiperaire and have found it real easy > to set up. > > Yes, some people have already said that they thought that it wouldn't be > a very good deal. But I hardly see much difference between Honda & > BMW. > > I guess I'm just thinking out loud. > > Greg Martin, idrawtobuild@juno.com > 20909 South Street, Suite #3 > Tehachapi, California 93561 > work 661-823-9401, fax 823-9381 > home 661-872-8781, fax 871-1822 > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:39:48 -0700 To: From: "R.M. Obrey" <39viking@home.com> Subject: KR-1 Gear Message-ID: <005c01c0a298$23f23b20$0100a8c0@c311196a> ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A25D.7774DEA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone have KR-1 tri-gear knowledge? My plans do not include a tri-gear = option, why is that? Thanks=20 - Richard ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A25D.7774DEA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:35:14 -0800 (PST) To: "R.M. Obrey" <39viking@home.com>, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Gear Message-ID: <20010228223514.13993.qmail@web4704.mail.yahoo.com> > Anyone have KR-1 tri-gear knowledge? My plans do > not include a tri-gear option, why is that? Thanks > - Richard Richard, Your plans probably show the first version of the engine mount, which would have made it pretty hard to make a tri-gear version. Anyway, since the KR-1 was Ken Rand's first plane, he probably never gave much thought to going back to tweak it, just moved on to the KR2, etc. After his death, improvements like the KR2S were provided by builders who followed, and incorporated only when they could no longer be ignored. There's probably a tri-gear design somewhere for the KR-1 (I haven't looked through the old newsletters for that, but you might find something there), but there's no reason you couldn't be the first to design it. Good luck, ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:37:50 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Duct collapse Message-ID: <20010228233750.4723.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Netters, Came across the following reading old Cozy Newsletters today. Thought some of you might find it helpful. "10/5/92 Dear Nat, The CAT-10 (yes, the style with no inner liner) from the filter to the carburetor collapsed, causing the engine to fail. (The) duct was properly installed (both ends of the spiral wire secured and the thread secured under clamps)... Regards, James Bierly Editor: We have heard of CEET and SCEET Aeroduct ducting failures due to the collapse of the inner liner, but this is the first instance we know of where CAT ducting collapsed because the wire didn't stay put - a good reason to eliminate the ducting, by mounting a filter box directly on the carburetor." ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:55:54 -0700 To: krnet , al friesen From: Manager Bill Subject: KR gross weight Message-ID: <3A9D9009.CAD06681@nm.net> To all you kr netters frying your brains with cathode rays This for Al Friesen in Canada, alfriesen@kootenay.com, but also for all the rest of the kr net Al, concerning my conversation with you this afternoon (Feb 22), my March 1996 analysis of the KR-2S wing attach fittings showed that at a gross weight of 1050 lbs, the wing attach fittings had a 16.4% reserve of strength at an ultimate load of 6 g. That is 4.0 g limit load, compared to 3.8 g limit load required of CAR 3 and FAR 23 aircraft such as Cessna and Piper single engine aircraft. For 3.8 g, the weight could be raised to 1105 lb. What this means is that the real ultimate strength of the wing attach fittings is 1.164 x 1050 = 1222 lb gross weight with no reserve for variations in strength of materials, tolerances on dimensions, eccentric loading, etc. From this you can probably say that about half the time, the wing attach fittings will not fail if they are loaded to the equivalent of 1222 lb gross weight at 6.0 g loading. However, you can also say about half the time, they WILL fail at this loading. I cannot in good conscience recommend that you can safely fly at 1222 lb gross weight, even though at this weight and 4.0 g limit loading, the wing attach fittings will not fail completely, but will probably experience permanent deformation. That is, the wing attach fittings will not return to their undeformed shape when the load is removed, and you will have to make new fittings to restore your wing to its original shape. On the other hand, a gross weight of 1105 lb would meet the requirements of FAR 23. However, this does not say anything about the remainder of the structure. Jeannette Rand advertises the KR-2 as a 6g (ultimate) airplane, but wants to retain the safety margin that goes with 1050 lb, and is adamant that she will not approve any higher weight. You are the builder of the airplane; it should be up to you to decide what strength margin you want, but it should not venture into danerous territory. There is a misstatement at the end of my report JJ-5 that Jeannette is sending to you; it says that the margin of safety in the spar at the fuselage attach point, which is where the loads from the fuselage and tail assembly are transferred to the wing, is less than the margin of safety at the wing attach fittings. This is not true; the margin of safety in the spar caps is 30%. The reason that the Canadian DOT wants the gross weight to be at least empty weight plus 2 x 175 for passengers plus 1/2 pound for each horsepower is because a rough estimate of fuel consumption is 1/2 pound per horsepower per hour, and this gives you one hour of flying at max rated power. You probably wouldn’t want to have less than this; FAA requires that you plan your flights to land with at least 30 minutes of fuel at cruise power, so you couldn’t fly for long if you had less than the required fuel capacity. Bill Marcy Hired Gun for Jeannette Rand Old pencil and paper aeronautical engineer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:04:13 -0700 To: Krnet From: Manager Bill Subject: bolts and other stuff Message-ID: <3A9DBC2B.6864A167@nm.net> Netters There is an FAA form 8000-38, Fabrication Assembly Operation Checklist, that you check off whether you or the kit manufacturer (or the prior builder, I expect) did the operation. It covers some 124 operations plus 32 more if you have a rotorcraft, and if you did 51% of the operations, you are the builder and are eligible for a Repairman’s Certificate! The bad news is that if you DIDN’T do 51%, you aren’t eligible. This is all part of a thick manual titled, “Amateur-Built Evaluation and Certification Handout Material,” that I obtained at Sun N Fun in 1997; I am sure they are still available and have probably been modified since 1997. This handout was put together to bring all the FAA offices together on homebuilt certification. Check it out. On the matter of reaming the Wing Attach Fittings. Jeannette tells me that her fitting sets are intentionally punched undersize so they can be reamed to fit the bolts that come with the kit. However, AN 3 bolts have a tolerance on the diameter, and most bolts are under the nominal size because that saves material. There are also AN 173, 174, and 175 CLOSE TOLERANCE bolts that are ground to much more precise size. You will get maximum benefit from reaming your attach fittings if you you these bolts, and they also save you the work of measuring every AN bolt to be sure you get the size you want. Aircraft Spruce lists some of these bolts, but not in the length dash numbers you will need for KR wings. Try a fastener specialist; maybe AS&S will tell you who their vendor is, or find one on the Internet. On shoulder harnesses. At the 1997 KR Forum at Sun N Fun I gave a talk on attaching shoulder harnesses to the 4 inch shelf behind the seat back. I set the analysis up for 4000 pounds in each of 2 seats, divided 2000 pounds at the seat belt and 2000 pounds at the shoulder harness. For original builders, the shelf should be 1/4 birch ply. If you have already installed the 3/32 shelf, reinforce it by gluing on a 1/8 or 1/4 panel over it. Attach the shoulder harness with five AN 4 bolts or four AN 5 bolts installed at least 3/4 inch aft of the front edge of the shelf. Reinforce the glue joint between the shelf and the longeron by gluing in a 5/8 square x 4 inch strip in the angle between the longeron and the shelf, and you will have joints at each end of the shelf that will take well in excess of 4000 pounds applied at the shoulder harness attachments. This is more than enough to hold a 200 pound body at 20g acceleration. Bill Marcy old paper and pencil engineer Hired Gun for Jeannette Rand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:25:45 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Wayland T Stokes Subject: 2001 KR Gathering at Pine Bluff, Arkansas Message-ID: <20010228.222546.-457617.0.tomstokes1@juno.com> Fellow Neters I just spoke with Tommy Waymack our coordinator for the 2001 KR gathering and he authorized me to send the following information. The plans for the coming gathering are coming along smoothly. The dates for this years gathering will be 21, 22, and 23 September and we will get you the information as soon as we know. We will have the same hanger that we had in 1997. We will try to use the Best Western Motel at The Pines Mall again but Tommy asks you wait to make your reservations for him to set up a block of rooms and work out a discount with the management. We are located about 40 miles south of Little Rock, Arkansas at the end of Interstate 530. If there is anything I can do for anyone I will try. Just e-mail me or call me at 870 247-5975. I have an answering machine if I am not at home. I work from 6 AM until 5 PM so evenings would be best if you are calling. Tom Stokes Pine Bluff, AR tomstokes1@juno.com or tomstokes1@aol.com Work Days tom.stokes@pba.army.mil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************