From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 12 Mar 2001 01:13:55 -0000 Issue 189 Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 5:14 PM krnet Digest 12 Mar 2001 01:13:55 -0000 Issue 189 Topics (messages 4533 through 4562): Re: KR-1 Build Time 4533 by: Frank Ross 4535 by: michael beck Re: reamer/WAFs 4534 by: DennisMingear.netscape.net Re: Retractable KR1 gear 4536 by: Guenther Bryce i'm new! 4537 by: pietro.bruni.libero.it 4553 by: Frank Ross Re: Current Virus Information 4538 by: Eduardo Iglesias Re: STALL and STABILITY 4539 by: Tom Andersen KR-1 4540 by: R.M. Obrey 4541 by: Dale Baldwin 4542 by: Dale Baldwin 4549 by: Frank Ross Neutral points stick free, at the kr Coral - for Techies only - j ust skip over, if it bores you 4543 by: R.H.Mole.open.ac.uk Re: Lengthen a KR-2S? 4544 by: Didactics1.aol.com 4545 by: Mark Langford 4547 by: Frank Ross Re: Wheel pants 4546 by: larry flesner Diehl Gear Leg Question 4548 by: Austin Clark 4550 by: Larry Deckert 4551 by: Dave and Tina Goodman 4555 by: Austin Clark KR fixes 4552 by: RFG842.aol.com Diehl Gear / Cleveland Wheels - Bolt Interference 4554 by: Austin Clark 4561 by: Dave and Tina Goodman Re: KR newsletter archive 4556 by: Frank Ross KR proof load 4557 by: Manager Bill Revflow 4558 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout "Sanding Board" success! 4559 by: EagleGator.aol.com 4560 by: Mark Jones 4562 by: EagleGator.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:15:16 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Build Time Message-ID: <20010310181516.12180.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> > Has anyone built a KR-1 or KR-2 in a thousand hours > or less? If not, why? Thanks. > - Richard Because: A. We have to keep making changes and B. We have to keep going back and reading the instructions, and C. Most parts have to be made at least three times: 1)The wrong way 2)Almost the right way 3)The right way 4)The way the inspecter says is the right way C. The internet was invented, That's my story and I'm sticking to it... ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:46:58 -0800 (PST) To: Frank Ross , krnet@mailinglists.org From: michael beck Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Build Time Message-ID: <20010310204658.28959.qmail@web3103.mail.yahoo.com> Absolutely True Mike Beck Sedro Woolley, WA --- Frank Ross wrote: > > Has anyone built a KR-1 or KR-2 in a thousand > hours > > or less? If not, why? Thanks. > > - Richard > > Because: > A. We have to keep making changes and > B. We have to keep going back and reading the > instructions, and > C. Most parts have to be made at least three times: > 1)The wrong way > 2)Almost the right way > 3)The right way > 4)The way the inspecter says is the right way > C. The internet was invented, > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it... > > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:55:30 -0500 To: donreid@erols.com From: DennisMingear@netscape.net Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> reamer/WAFs Message-ID: <000525EB.4EADB0F9.5363BC18@netscape.net> They do have a website goto https://www.wttool.com/wtool/frames.asp. Looks like you can order a catalog from there too. Dennis... Donald Reid wrote: > > > >Anyone know if I buy a 3/16 reamer whether it will > >enlarge the RR WAF holes to perfectly fit an AN-3? > >The AN-3s that I bought from AS & S fit fine for the > > Please don't buy tools from AS&S.  They overcharge by a whole lot. > Get a catalog from Wholesale Tool.  The head office is in Warren Michigan, > phone number is 800-521-3420.  I don't know if they have a web site.  The > last catalog I got from then is over 750 pages.  There are over 10 pages of > reams > __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) To: aerobair , "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: Guenther Bryce Subject: Re: KR> Retractable KR1 gear Message-ID: <20010310205629.77588.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> --- aerobair wrote: > Hi, > > After around 700 hrs of flying time, since 1985, and > a last rather hard > landing, I found both no 1 castings (brackets) are > cracked just behind > the point where the bar lies on it. > > Can someone tell me if these castings can be > soldered and if not, if > they are still on the market. RR offered me a fixed > landing gear, witch > solution I would not take for the moment. > > Can the 7075 bar... (bent 3/8 of an inch, and yes, > holes through the > stub wings, after a deadstick approach on a highway, > over an unseen car > witch caused a stall...) ...be straightened or has > it lost its > characteristics ? > Could it be replaced with a 2024 bar ? > > Thanks ! Please e-mail me directly, Bob Riendeau > > To answer straightening 7075 bar_ Yes but understand the material was heat treated to 7074-T6 condition this means it must be annealed to 7075-0 condition straightened then heat treated to 7075-T6 condition. If you don't anneal it first it is likely to break. Trust Me !! Bryce, A & P _ Aeronautical Engrg. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:20:52 +0100 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "pietro.bruni@libero.it" Subject: i'm new! Message-Id: Hi guys im' new here and i have just a simple question. I havo bought from a friend the construction drawing and manual of KR2S, he bought it from Rand Robinson in february 1998 and after he decided noot to build it so i sold it to me, but he have Newsletter only to 1984! What else after? There was important notice that i have to know about drawings? There is anywhere some online newsletter? The last one in KrNet is january 97 old ? thank you to every body in advance for replies. Pietro Bruni Paderno Dugnano (Mi) Italy EAA 583377 Club Aviazione Popolare (Italian Homebuilders Association)1269 E mail pietro.bruni@libero.it ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:46:01 -0800 (PST) To: "pietro.bruni@libero.it" , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> i'm new! Message-ID: <20010311174601.15572.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- wrote: > Hi guys im' new here and i have just a simple > question.... I havo bought construction manual... of KR2S, ...he bought it from Rand Robinson in february 1998... but he have Newsletter only to 1984!... > Pietro Bruni Pietro, Plans from 1998 should be good for building a plane. I do not think you need old newsletters. You may want to subscribe to the newsletter now. There are many Italian builders who will help you, I am sure. Good luck. Frank Ross, San Antonio, Texas, USA ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:51:01 -0300 To: "aracuan" From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Cc: "Wade Boteler" , "w.g. kirkland" , "Van Caulart" , "Valerie Laigle" , "Valerie Iglesias Laigle" , "Tracy & Carol O'Brien" , "Todd" , "Timothy Brown" , "Syd Griffiths" , "Steven Eberhart" , "Steve & Linda Bennett" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9fan_Balatchev?=" , "Serodino" , "Serge Pennec" , "Serge PENNEC" , "Segundamano" , "Sebastian y Rene Andreoli" , "Ruben Trouboul" , "Ross Youngblood" , "Ross Youngblood" , "Ron Eason" , "Rodrigo Iglesias" , "Rodolfo Pennini (PROYECTISTAS CATIA)" , "Roberto Zoratti" , "Robert" , "Richard Parker" , "Raul Scaine" , "Pietenpol" , "Peter Nauta" , "Peter Johnson" , "PayPal" , "Paul Lucas" , "Patricia Burger" , "Pablo Inoxidable Antelo" , "Ormetal" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Notificaci=F3n_eGroups?=" , "Nadine Brauns" , "miguel" , "Michael Geoghegan" , "Michael C. Myal" , "mauricio giandinoto" , "MARTINEZ MARIANO" , "Marta" , "Mark Langford" , "Mark Jones" , "Mark Cherry" , "Manning Video" , "Luis Tesone" , "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" , "Leonardo" , "larry flesner" , "KR-net" , "Juan Luis Barrionuevo" , "Jorge Segovia" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_N=E9stor_Gotaszewski?=" , "Jorge Marchini" , "Jorge Dufou" , "Jonhatan" , "John Petrie" , "John Esch" , "John and Janet Martindale" , "Joe Hemmer" , "JEAN VERON" , "James Sellars" , "James Postma" , "JAMES" , "Instrumental Motor egauges.com" , "Iglesias, Cecilia" , "Hugo Bustos" , "Horacio Schechtmann" , "Harry Jensen" , "Hank and Jane Luimes" , "Hahaha" , "Guss Who" , "Guillermo Giordana" , "Guido Pittana" , "Frank Ross" , "Florin L Pintea" , "Federico Iglesias" , "Ezequiel Beneito" , "Estudio Ballari Santamarina" , "Erik Meisterman" , "EL EMPORIO (305) 371-1580" , "Eduardo Iglesias" , "Earl Stevens" , "Dr.Cycle" , "douglas russell-white" , "Donald R. Bates" , "Donald Clarke" , "Don Parham" , "Dick Peters" , "Dexter Nunnery" , "David Stroud" , "David R. Christensen" , "David Parrish" , "Dave Johnson" , "Daniel Trabb" , "daniel trabb" , "Christian Lina" , "Cory Ure" , "cartera" , "Carter Pond" , "Carlos Muller" , "Carlos Arab" , "Brookstone" , "Brian Vasseur" , "bob" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Benussi=2C_Dar=EDo?=" , "aracuan" , "aotbb" , "Amazom" , "Alicia Kass" , "Albert Pecoraro" , "Al Friesen" , "Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co." , "AAOT" Subject: RV: Current Virus Information Message-ID: <000201c0a9b3$67ed02c0$861c33c8@satellite> Eduardo Iglesias -----Mensaje original----- De: Fran & Chuck Para: kitfox@sportflight.com ; airsoob@lists.kz Fecha: Miércoles, 07 de Marzo de 2001 09:13 p.m. Asunto: Fw: Current Virus Information > > > >> > Subject: Current Virus Information >> > There is a new virus that just came out yesterday called W32.Naked@mm. >Please be careful and do not open any >> > messages with the following subject. I recommend that everyone who has >a >> > home computer, update their virus definitions as soon as possible. >> > >> > Subject: Naked Wife >> > The attachment is called NakedWife.exe >> > To read about this virus: >> > http://service1.symantec.com/sarc/sarc.nsf/html/W32.Naked@mm.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:37:05 -0500 To: From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR> STALL and STABILITY Message-ID: <005201c0a9d4$29325820$ccdc5818@triad.rr.com> Thanks for the pleasant story Dave. That was a breath of fresh air. I know that 95% of KRnet would like to see more of these. -Tom Andersen Greensboro, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave To: Cc: Max Saunders Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: KR> STALL and STABILITY I'm at 3000 feet and pulling alongside of Max in his little Druine Turbulent. Conditions are very smooth and not even a little bump in the sky. Deep blue above and rolling green pastures below with just a little white aeroplane beside me. Carb heat is on as I pull the power right back and try to adjust my decreasing speed and at the same time time maintain the height that Max is flying at untill at last i'm flying slightly faster but know that i'm still loosing foward speed and it should all even out as I move along side. Max normally flies the little Turbulent ZK-CVX at about 80mph but today something is different as I notice the angle of attack in my KR-2special is getting higher and higher. A quick glance at the air speed indicator shows 55mph and then its eyes outside to maintain station with Max who is maintaining a constant speed and flying nice and straight and level.Or so I thought. Its just starting to dawn on me that his insane looking grin is probably for my benefit and that he has been slowing down ever since he saw me comming along side. Right. Lets see if we can match him as I move away to give a bit of distance between us. ZK-CSR stalls at 55mph and am starting to get a little stick shake now as the speed falls through 55mph.We are starting to drop away a little so add a trickle of power to my Revmaster 2100 and the buffeting through the stick gets stronger. Increasing revs to 2100 and the buffeting remains constant and wow. The airspeed is dropping below 50mph and we are still along side him and. At 45mph indicated max is dropping behind and I know we just can't go any slower and so start a gentle turn away leaving Max and his Turbulent outlined against a deep blue sky and the sharp green line seperating the sea. Still maintaing height I increase revs to 2200rpm and keep the stick held back trying to keep the speed smack on 40mph. Still have the buffeting and I wonder about a rate one turn to the right. No problems there and the same to the left. A full 360 degree turn with stick buffeting and apparent full control. So lets try full control deflection to the left and back again. Just a soggy very slow response. Full deflection to the right gave a bit of height loss but no control problems. Oh well. I suppose I should head back to the airfield and have a coffee and discuss the speeds with Max. "Paraparam traffic this is CSR five to the north 3000 feet joining". I wonder what the indicated airspeed error was at the speed we were travelling. Wiil never know really. What I do know is that this little aeroplane of mine has not got any bad vices at all and think to myself how lucky I am. "CSR is left base for 34 number two behind the Cub on short final". Last week I did my biannual licence review "CSR short final for 34" and the instructor was very impressed with the the handling and wanted to go off on his own and do some aeros's. No way. This is my wee baby. Accross the fence at 70mph and holding off, holding off, holding off. Mains down and a little check foward on the stick to stick them there then ease back as the tail comes down."CSR clearing left to Sport hanger". Stick hard back and a lot of power to run up on to the grass and finally to the hanger. A cup of coffee. A good talk about aircraft and then another flight and then.....What a life........ David J Stuart Email fly@paradise.net.nz http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~fly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:56:59 -0700 To: From: "R.M. Obrey" <39viking@home.com> Subject: KR-1 Message-ID: <020001c0aad2$660ff5f0$0100a8c0@c311196a> ------=_NextPart_000_01FD_01C0AA97.B98E0590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the answer to my earlier question. Now I have another one or = two. 1. Is the KR-1 pitch sensitive like the KR-2? If so, should I follow = the same path that everyone else has taken to eliminate the problem? 2. My plans are from 1973 and are vauge at best. How many layers of = glass should I use? The plans do not say, it just says glass the thing = with Dynel. I take it from the other posts that I will be using = E-glass. =20 3. I have read a couple of small books on the subject, the books = weren't very good. It didn't tell me what is meant by "flox" nor did it = tell me what BID tape means. Can someone answer this for me? 4. I sure would like to glass the whole thing, as suggested by Michael = Mimms. Is this a bad idea? 5. I am 6'2" tall, Rand-Robinson told me that I am too big. Were they = just trying to sell me a set for the KR-2S or is it true? Should I say = "Big Deal" and modify the plane to fit me. I really want to build this = plane. I have plans for a half dozen others, this is the only one that = has lit my fire. Thanks! - Richard ------=_NextPart_000_01FD_01C0AA97.B98E0590-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:33:50 -0500 To: "R.M. Obrey" <39viking@home.com>, From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-Id: <20010311093605.IOOQ14058.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@computername> Richard, 1. I would assume so. I would strecth it. 2.Two layers on the wing leading edge fwd. one layer every where else. 3. Flox is chopped cotton mixed with resin, micro is micro balloons mixed with resin flox is much more solid structural, like for mount pts. micro is mixed to the consistency of honey and applied to the foam prior to laying the glass down. 4. Changes to design (not airfoil selection) will cost you time. 5. Make the A/C fit you. Dale Baldwin, KR-2 ---------- From: R.M. Obrey <39viking@home.com> To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> KR-1 Date: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:56 AM Thanks for the answer to my earlier question. Now I have another one or two. 1. Is the KR-1 pitch sensitive like the KR-2? 2. How many layers of glass should I use? tell me what is meant by "flox" nor did it tell me what BID tape means 4. I sure would like to glass the whole thing, 5. I am 6'2" tall, Rand-Robinson told me that I am too big. Thanks! - Richard ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:47:45 -0500 To: , "R.M. Obrey" <39viking@home.com>, From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-Id: <20010311094958.IQCH14058.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@computername> Richard, I should clarify the the glass seq. on the wing. No micro on the spars, just pure epoxy resin I microed the foam layed up one layer of glass over the entire wing panel and then after the lower surface was done (fiberglasssing) I added the second layer from the aft edge of the frt. spar to about 1" beyond the C/L of the leading edge and did the same with the lower surface. Hope this makes it a little clearer. Dale Baldwin, KR-2 ---------- > From: Dale Baldwin > To: R.M. Obrey <39viking@home.com>; krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 > Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 4:33 AM > 2.Two layers on the wing leading edge fwd. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:53:52 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-ID: <20010311155352.6552.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> > Thanks for the answer to my earlier question. Now I > have another one or two. this is the only one that has lit my fire. > Thanks! > - Richard Richard, Do your homework and save yourself a lot of time, grief and money. Read everything you can on fiberglass and composite airplane building. Check the library. Go to the book store (you'd be surprised what the Half-Price Book stores have). Both Wicks and Aircraft Spruce have catalogs with excellent descriptions, drawings and pictures of various types of fiberglass, including flox, tapes and microballoons, etc. Join an EAA chapter and start asking questions and don't worry about asking questions that are "dumb". The only dumb question is the one not asked. I had a hard time understanding my KR-1 plans until I looked at a set of KR2 plans. Ask around at the EAA chapter for KR2 plans someone may want to unload for a few bucks or for a good trade. You'd be surprised how many EAA members built or started to build a KR at one time. Build a "mock-up" of the cockpit area out of 1x2s and cardboard and decide for yourself if you're too big (you are). At least you'll get an idea of how you want to change the plane and where, without costing a lot of money. And finally, visit Bill Reents KR-1 site. There's a link on the KR site and one on Mark Langford's site. Good luck! ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:16:38 -0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk Subject: Neutral points stick free, at the kr Coral - for Techies only - j ust skip over, if it bores you Message-ID: Bill mentioned a NACA report by William H Phillips 'Appreciation and Prediction of Flying Qualities'. You can download a free copy at http://NACA.larc.nasa.gov (thanks Mark, for this URL) Click on 1949 and scroll down to item 6. Double click and you get various options. If you 'Save target as' you can save the whole thing on your PC and then print it off at leisure. It's nicely typeset with embedded figures and charts. An earlier version is TN-1670 which is item 314 in the 1948 listings - the content is identical but it's a crudely laid out early version. It's a great report - intended for researchers in 1940's - so expect a stiff read although you may be glad that there are more sentences than equations. Its certainly authoritative and reliable. There is a section of the report 'Determination of neutral points from flight tests' and the final paragraph under the sub-heading 'stick-free neutral point' is VERY apposite, because: I have already stated my estimates of the stick free neutral point ,and the less important stick fixed np. Bill has stated his very different estimates for the stick fixed point. So here is a precis of 'Appreciation and Prediction of Flying Qualities' that will safely determine the ACTUAL kr stick free neutral point from a simple flight test programme. Basically you go fly three times. BUT STICK WITHIN YOUR TRIED AND TESTED cg RANGE. I guess flights 1 and 2 are solo with different fuel and baggage loads. Flight 3 might be dual. Do them in any order. Flight 1 fwd c.g. Flight 2 mid c.g. Flight 3 aft c.g. To save trouble later, standardise at the same safe density altitude for all three flights Just use your portable GPS (eg Garmin 90, or 92) and fire it up on its E6- B mode. Enter your altimeter reading and the outside temperature (dead easy with the small battery powered digital thermometers with a remote sensor poked out side in the airflow - available at about $10 from auto stores). Let the GPS calculate your density altitude. Adjust your altitude until you get the same density altitude to within say 250 ft or thereabouts. Then try to peg it there. All you do is trim the aircraft to fly hands-off (yeah well!!) at three different cruise speeds, one after the other, on each flight Fast cruise Mid cruise Slow cruise At each speed, you fly steady as a rock, perfectly trimmed, and Record 1. Position of the trim control as accurately as you can If you don't have a trim then you can't really do this test! 2. Aim downwind and make small heading changes until your GPS shows you that you have nailed the heading that maximises the ground speed. Write it down . Do a VERY gentle 180 into wind and let the plane settle - it takes longer than you might think - then record the into-wind ground speed. After you land estimate as accurately as you can A c.g position B Aircraft weight When all three flights are complete - no cheating folks - you draw a graph like Fig 10 (a) in the NACA Report. (This is on the next page of the Rpt) Plot the trim control position (trim angle if you're feeling bright eyed) on the vertical Plot the air speed on the horizontal (just average your into and out of wind GPS speeds). This will give you three curves - one curve per cg position - with three points on each (different speeds). To get a graph like 10b you need to change the horizontal scale from speed to some quantity that is proportional to lift coefficient CL. So calculate 1000*weight / square of airspeed (it does not matter what units you got off the GPS for speed) A typical combination would be weights in lbs and speed in mph. eg 800lbs at 120 mph would give 1000*800/120/120 = 55.6 Draw a second graph like fig 10(b) Plot the trim control position (trim angle as before if you're feeling bright eyed) on the vertical Plot the 1000*weight/square of airspeed on the horizontal Draw a final graph like fig 10(c) The vertical is used to plot the value of the slope of one of the lines from fig 10(b) The horizontal is used to plot the cg position of that line from fig 10(b) Repeat this for the three lines in Fig 10(b). Now the easy bit. Join up the three points with a line Project the line to cross the horizontal axis The stick-free neutral point is the cg where your line cuts the cg axis. **************************************************************************** *** Can't say I've done it yet on my aircraft - I had a heart attack recently - but I sure intend to when I get back to flying. Yeah I know. Hypertensive old sod, aren't I. Getting my knickers in a right twist you go on to say. Guilty as charged! I really don't think many of Bill's numbers are correct - but then it would be a miracle if all of mine were. Will someone PLEASE do the test flying - I'll do the number crunching, or if you prefer why not approach Bill - and find out the ACTUAL stick free neutral point ? In my view, the aft cg remains a serious safety issue. In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice - in practice there is! Blue skies, Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:18:00 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Didactics1@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> Lengthen a KR-2S? Message-ID: --part1_f6.8029ff2.27dcd508_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was hoping for some input from some of the greybeards, i.e., Mark Langford, Mike Mims, Dr. Dean etc., as well as the others who may have some thoughts on the subject. I don't yet know how big this breadbox is. Steve Robinson --part1_f6.8029ff2.27dcd508_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:18:16 -0500 Received: from m12.jersey.juno.com (m12.jersey.juno.com [64.136.16.75]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:18:05 -0500 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"d8F/9F7rt1WR9CPd1Xr26QcLX5DcCkDCud+F1h/JfH34xanCXQ3i5w=="> Received: (from virgnvs@juno.com) by m12.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id FX5EPNVD; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:17:52 EST To: Didactics1@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:18:55 -0500 Subject: Re: KR> Lengthen a KR-2S? Message-ID: <20010309.171919.-249497.1.virgnvs@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: virgnvs@juno.com You may want to put the pax up front, on the CG. You in the back places the CG in the proper place for solo flying. Are you ready to engineer the changes or pay to have it done?? Eyeball will not do it I think,Virg --part1_f6.8029ff2.27dcd508_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:08:42 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Lengthen a KR-2S? Message-ID: <007801c0aa34$d3afa9a0$561cf618@600athlon> Steve Robinson wrote: > Question for you that are knowledgeable on the KR-2S design. I'm about to > order the plans and join your community (been passively reading net traffic > for some 2 years). My thought is to avoid the cramped two-side-by-side > concept and build a two-seat tandem taildragger. What issues do I need to be > mindful of? You're definitely talking total redesign here, with some very careful attention paid to CG. I'd think it would be a whole lot easier to just make it a little wider rather than re-engineer the whole airplane. The tail would end up being larger to handle the larger CG range, trading off some of the wetted area increase of a widened fuselage. Your idea of putting the passenger on the CG is good, but that almost certainly puts you behind him, and now your poor visibilty over the nose just went to NO visibility over the nose, with or without a passenger. Dual controls for a tandem are more complicated and heavier. And then there's the problem of talking to your passenger. I plan to spend a lot of time flying with wife and kids, so I'd rather not have that, but you may not have that "problem". I'd like to use the right seat to give my kids lessons on flying and navigation. It's your decision, but if you are determined to do this, I'd start with a weight and balance spread sheet (you can borrow a generic one I stole from the internet at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/WB.xls ) to get an idea of what you're up against, and the tradeoffs involved between tandem and side-by-side. The problem is that you probably don't know enough about the final weights to really even start this, which is going to end up being yet another excercise in aircraft design. I could go on, but you get the picture. I don't mind changing things that cry out to be improved, but I don't think side-by-side seating is one of them. Probably not what you wanted to hear... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:26:58 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: Fwd: KR> Lengthen a KR-2S? Message-ID: <20010311152658.26190.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> You may want to put the pax up front, on the CG. You in the back places the CG in the proper place for solo flying. Are you ready to engineer the changes or pay to have it done?? Eyeball will not do it I think,Virg I was hoping for some input from some of the greybeards Steve Robinson Steve, They don't get any greyer than Virg... ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:55:25 -0600 To: "Dean Selby" ,"krnet" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Wheel pants Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010311065525.008d9e70@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 08:42 PM 3/8/01 -0600, Dean Selby wrote: >Does anyone know, or is he on this list, the guy at last years gathering that was making fiberglass parts. The one part I may just buy instead of make- wheelpants. >Dean Selby ============================================================================== Dean, I think the person you're looking for is Kenny Boyer, e-mail address is ou812@brick.net He is no longer on the net and that is the last address I have for him. Good luck. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:52:13 -0600 To: From: "Austin Clark" Subject: KR> Diehl Gear Leg Question Message-ID: <002201c0aa43$3e1ea3a0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> I have mis-placed the instruction sheet that came with my Diehl gear kit. I think I remember that the gear legs are to be wrapped with fiberglass after installing the brake line trace tube. Can someone help me out on the details of this? Thanks, Austin Clark KR2S www.datasync.com/~itac ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:47:08 -0700 To: From: "Larry Deckert" Cc: "Austin Clark" Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Gear Leg Question Message-ID: <001d01c0aa4a$ea346ce0$bf18183f@ca.com> Austin, There are several pages of stuff about Dan's gear legs. Send me your address and I'll mail them to you. Larry Deckert Sandy, Ut 801-561-3573 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austin Clark" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: KR> Diehl Gear Leg Question > I have mis-placed the instruction sheet that came with my Diehl gear kit. I > think I remember that the gear legs are to be wrapped with fiberglass after > installing the brake line trace tube. Can someone help me out on the > details of this? > > Thanks, > > Austin Clark > KR2S > www.datasync.com/~itac > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:54:21 -0800 To: "Austin Clark" , From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Gear Leg Question Message-ID: <000e01c0aa4b$ec716f20$5945a6d1@oemcomputer> > I have mis-placed the instruction sheet that came with my Diehl gear kit. I > think I remember that the gear legs are to be wrapped with fiberglass after > installing the brake line trace tube. Can someone help me out on the > details of this? Austin, Wrap the legs FIRST with glass and then put an additional wrap around the brake line tube. The reason for this is that the wrapped glass strengthens the leg against torsional stress. If you wrap around the tube first, these stresses could simply crush the tube on the way to failure of the gear leg as a whole. After installing the tube with flox, then put an additional wrap of fiberglass around it for protection. If you need the directions, I can fax them to you. Let me know. Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:44:40 -0600 To: From: "Austin Clark" Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Gear Leg Question Message-ID: <004201c0aa53$36225100$0100a8c0@mshome.net> > Wrap the legs FIRST with glass and then put an additional wrap around the > brake line tube. The reason for this is that the wrapped glass strengthens > the leg against torsional stress. If you wrap around the tube first, these > stresses could simply crush the tube on the way to failure of the gear leg > as a whole. After installing the tube with flox, then put an additional > wrap of fiberglass around it for protection. First of all thanks to all who responded to my question and the offers to mail or fax me a copy of the instruction sheet. I know that KR net can get a little frustrating at times, but this makes it worth staying subscribed. I found my instruction sheets in the file cabinet (of all places !!) and then I remembered that glass cloth was sent with the kit and is to be installed prior to drilling holes, which I did two years ago. Austin Clark KR2S www.datasync.com/~itac ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:29:57 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: RFG842@aol.com Subject: KR fixes Message-ID: <48.12a39693.27dd1015@aol.com> As Richard has pointed out, there is a big difference between the slide rule and actual results. As much as we would like to believe that everything is created equal, any production test pilot will tell you that aircraft coming off the line vary from one to the other. Some fly great, some need a lot of tweaking before they come close and some are and always will be lemons. Why, with all of the expensive jigs and fixtures, --who knows! Experimental, with all of the fancy flight test equipment, usually tests a range of varying adjustments to get a final fix. And the final fix is usually an A&E with a ball peen hammer. With all this said, the KR fixes have to start somewhere and the gentlemen with the slide rules are to be commended for all of their vision and hard work. BUT there are no two KRs built alike and the final results are in the flying of your own plane. I would never expect the same fix to act identically on two different KRs. The gathering of statistics would be great, to give us a range of performance to expect from our own project. I hope everyone participates and Steve, if you need some help, let me know. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:43:42 -0600 To: From: "Austin Clark" Subject: KR> Diehl Gear / Cleveland Wheels - Bolt Interference Message-ID: <004101c0aa53$35407c80$0100a8c0@mshome.net> I am installing Cleveland wheels and brakes and see the problem with the bolts being very close to the brake rotor that Mark Langford, Dr. Dean and others have described. Mine are not dragging the rotor, but are close enough that I will grind the heads slightly to increase clearance. I have a note on the gear installation instruction sheet that I drilled the lower bolt holes 2-1/8" from the top holes which were drilled 1/2" from the top edge of the bracket. If I had drilled the lower holes 2" from the top holes, I think the clearance would have been adequate. Anyone who has not yet assembled their gear may want to consider this. Austin Clark KR2S www.datasync.com/~itac ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:10:20 -0800 To: From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Gear / Cleveland Wheels - Bolt Interference Message-ID: <001801c0aa91$36199540$be44a6d1@oemcomputer> All, For another option on brakes, take a look at Great Planes www.greatplainsas.com/gpindex.html . I have a set for my plane. Not only are they excellent quality, but they have no clearance problems and (as far as I can tell from visual comparison) are lighter than Cleveland brakes. I found them quite easy to prep and install. Good building! Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:49:22 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> KR newsletter archive Message-ID: <20010311174922.12055.qmail@web4704.mail.yahoo.com> --- CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > Can anyone send me the link to the newsletter > archive. Thanks, Joe > Sorry Joe, The link I had no longer works. Anybody know what's happened to the archive? ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:39:57 -0700 To: chris K , Krnet From: Manager Bill Subject: KR proof load Message-ID: <3AABD489.40C5F22E@nm.net> This is for Chris Kogelmann in Austria, but I am sending it via the krnet for information and comment. First I want to dispel the notion that I am on the Rand Robinson payroll. I have an ongoing agreement with Jeannette to work on a structural analysis of the KR-2S, but it is a task-by-task job and I haven’t worked on it very often. Despite what many of you may believe, Mrs. Rand is not reaping huge profits from her business. Most of what I have done in forums at Oshkosh and at Sun N Fun has been as a volunteer, though she helped some with travel expenses. Like the rest of you, all that I do here on krnet is unpaid, though I have written about a couple of things I was paid to do. What follows is part of that, although the conversions to metric I am doing for Chris, not Jeannette. Chris, you didn’t mention what the gross weight of your KR is going to be, but since you are using VW power, I assume you are following the guidelines and are working toward 980 lb (445 kg). You should have no fear of loading your wing to the equivalent of 445 kg; as I wrote a few days ago, it is more than strong enough to support 477 kg at 4.0 g without permanent deformation. That is, when the load is removed, it will return to its unloaded shape. That is the definition of limit load. So you are perfectly safe in loading to 445 kg at 3.8 g, provided that you do it carefully and correctly. As a matter of fact, it’s a good idea. You wouldn’t fire a rifle or shotgun without proof marks on the barrel, would you? You expressed reluctance to invert your KR so it can be loaded acting downward on the lower surface, so I will tell you how to keep the airplane upright. It will take some sturdy lumber and a bit of time to build the loading levers, but the work is pretty easy. You are going to build a pair of simple support beams to go over the spar at the wing roots, because you will be pushing up on the wings, and you need to hold the airplane down. Next you are going to build ten loading levers and their stands, five for each wing, but they will all be identical. First, the support beams. They need to be sturdy, because you will be pushing against them with about 800 kg on each side. In the US, a standard board size is 2 x 6, which is finished to 1.5 x 5.5 inches, or 4 cm x 14 cm. You need two pieces, each 2 meters long. Drill each end through the 14 cm width so you can attach a chain or cable that will reach an anchor in the ground and so the cables will clear the wings with the midpoint of the beam centered over the front spar. Attach a 5 cm x 4 cm rubber pad to the 4 cm bottom edge at its midpoint to form a bearing surface on the top of the front spar. Each ground anchor and cable should withstand at least 400 kg; 500 kg would be better. Now you will need a total of 24.5 meters of 50 mm x 50 mm square stock, 8 square meters of 18 to 20 mm plywood, and 28 glass or steel balls about 12 to 15 mm in diameter. Finally you will need 1306 kg of bricks or sand and sandbags. The bricks are easier to stack, but don’t buy them; borrow them, and if you can’t borrow bricks, use the sand and sandbags. Of course, you’ll also need a scale to weigh the bricks or sand. Cut 10 pieces of 50 mm square stock into 1 meter lengths. Set 2 pieces aside. With a drill, start a 10 mm hole 20 mm from the end of each of the 8 pieces remaining. Turn the pieces over, and start a 10 mm hole 330 mm from the center of the first hole in each piece. These are sockets for the 12 mm balls. (If you use 15 mm balls, use a 12 mm drill bit.) Each hole should be such that a ball will go about 1/3 of the way into a hole. These 8 pieces are the outboard loading levers. Measure 660 mm from the center of each end socket, and drill a shallow socket hole. These holes will locate the center lines of the loading planks that you will place your sandbags on. Cut 12 blocks of 50 mm square stock, each 100 mm long (this length is not critical). Glue and screw two blocks flush with the ends of each of the two remaining 1 meter lever arms and on opposite sides of the arm so you form a 100 mm x 150 mm surface at one end of each lever. These are the inboard lever arms. Drill a ball socket 100 mm apart and 20 mm from the end of each lever arm. (This is why you glued blocks to the sides.) Measure 330 mm from the centers of the sockets and mark the pivot point on each arm. Center a 100 mm block to each side of the lever arms (same orientation as the end blocks) on these marks, and glue and screw them in place. Turn each arm over and drill a ball socket in each block at the lever arm center line and 100 mm apart. Turn the arms over again and measure 660 mm from the center line between the end socket holes. Mark each arm. This is the centerline of the inboard loading platform. Center two of the last four 100 mm blocks to each lever arm (same orientation as the others) and glue and screw them in place. Now cut 2 pieces of 18 mm or 20 mm plywood, each 600 x 630 mm. The grain should run the long way. Mark the center of each piece, and glue and screw one platform with its center over the loading centerline of each inboard loading lever. Cut 4 pieces of 50 mm square stock, each 630 mm long. Two of these are the inboard load distribution pads, and the other two are ballast to balance the 630 mm loading pads. Mark the centers of the two load distribution pads, and drill a pair of ball sockets 50 mm on each side of the centerlines to match the two sockets in the ends of the inboard loading levers. Cut 4 pieces of 50 mm square stock, each 2.4 meters long. Two of these are load distribution pads and two are ballast to balance the loading plank that will rest on the loading levers. Make a mark to identify the outboard tips of the two distribution pads. Starting from the outboard end of each pad, drill ball sockets centered at 4 locations on each pad: 343 mm from the tip, 953 mm from the tip, 1504 mm from the tip, and 2174 mm from the tip. These sockets will locate the ends of the 8 outboard loading levers, 4 on each outboard wing panel. Cut 2 plywood loading planks, each 2.4 meters long by 600 mm wide, with the grain running the long way (if your plywood is only available in American 8 foot lengths, don’t worry about the missing inch. Just compensate for a 25 mm shortage at the tip end of each plank.) Scribe a centerline down each plank and drill ball socket holes corresponding to the socket holes in the load distribution pads. Don’t forget to compensate for the missing 25 mm at the tip if you are using American size plywood. Now cut 10 pieces of 50 mm square stock, each 220 mm long, and 10 pieces of plywood each 150 mm square. These are the pylons that the loading planks and the load distribution pads will rest on. Center one end of a 220 mm pylon on the center of each plywood base and glue and screw it in place. Drill a ball socket in the free end of each pylon. You are ready to assemble the loading system. Place five pylons about equally spaced and about 15 mm ahead of the center section leading edge of each wing. Starting from the inboard end, number them from 1 to 5. Place a bearing ball in each pylon socket. Take the two inboard loading levers (the ones with two ball sockets in the ends) and place them on the no. 1 pylons, locating each lever with its socket on the ball in the pylon and the short end projecting under the wing. Insert balls in the sockets and place the 630 mm loading pads on the levers, with their ball sockets on the bearing balls in the ends of the loading levers. Put a 630 mm ballast bar just in front of each load distribution pad. Now adjust each assembly of pylon, loading lever, load distribution pad and ballast bar so the loading pad is centered on the bottom of the main spar and the end of the loading pad is flush with the outside of the fuselage. The loading levers won’t be completely balanced, so the distribution pads will press lightly against the bottom of the spar and keep everything steady. Place a loading lever with its midpoint ball socket over the bearing ball on each of the 8 outboard pylons, and put a bearing ball in the end socket and the loading socket of each lever. Now place a 600 mm loading plank, with its locating sockets facing down, over each set of outboard loading levers, and adjust the pylons in and out so the ball sockets in the platforms fit onto the bearing balls in the lever arms. Adjust the whole assembly so the outboard edge of each platform is even with the tips of the wings. Place a load distribution pad and a ballast bar between the wing and the loading levers, and again adjust the pylons in and out and back and forth so the load distribution bars are even with the bottoms of the spars and the bearing sockets fit over the balls in the loading levers. Are you still with me? It is hard to describe this without using a picture or drawing, but I have a phobia against e-mail attachments. If you require a drawing, I will send you one by postal service. You should now have your airplane securely fastened down, with ten short pylons each supporting a load lever, and the system of load levers having a short inboard and a long outboard loading platform in front of the wing and a short load distribution pad and a long distribution pad pressing against the bottom of the wing spar on each side of the fuselage. You are ready to apply the 3.8 g static load. However, the total load will not be 3.8 times 444 kg, both because you are not going to load the part of the wing that is inside the fuselage, and because the downward inertia of the outboard wing panels relieves the lift load on the wing. The applied load is centered on the forward spar because this is the 25 percent chord location, and the lift load is centered approximately on the 25 percent chord. Gather your bricks. You are going to apply the following loads: pad number 1, 186 kg pad number 2, 144 kg pad number 3, 125 kg pad number 4, 107 kg pad number 5, 91 kg Total applied to each wing, 653 kg Incidentally, this distribution includes the effect of 2 degrees washout (twist) in the outer wing panels. Start at the inboard location, pad number 1. Stack 186 kg of bricks so the load is centered on the center of the pylon. Note that the wing spar will bend a little, and the outer levers will be tilted upward against the wing. Put some spacers under the number 2 pylon until the lever is at least level, and make sure that the long loading pad is even with the spar all along its length. Load both number 1 pylons before you adjust the number 2 pylons. Now stack 144 kg of bricks on the loading plank, with the load centered over the center of the number 2 pylon on each side of the fuselage.. Move to pylon number 3. Note that the wing spar will be bent a little more, and the number 3 loading levers will be tilting up toward the wing. Put spacers under the pylon platforms to level the levers again, and load each lever number 3 with 125 kg of bricks, again centered over the number 3 pylons. Move to the number 4 pylons. Put spacers under the platforms to level the loading levers. Then load the plank with 107 kg of bricks, centered on pylon number 4, for each wing panel. Finally, move to the number 5 pylons. Put spacers under the platforms (it will probably take quite a few!) to level the loading levers. Finally, load each plank with 91 kg of bricks, centered on pylon number 5. Take lots of pictures! Also be sure the Austrian officials are there to witness the loading, though you don’t need them around until you actually start piling bricks. It would also be wise to measure the upward bending of the spar at the wingtip also. Finally, remove the loads in reverse order. That is, unload the number 5 pylons, then the number 4 pylons, and so on, working on both wings as you go. The last step, and of utmost importance to the officials (as well as to you!), is to inspect the wings and the attach fittings after all the load has been removed. If you have done all the gluing, glassing, reaming and bolting properly, there should be no damage at all. Go fly! Bill Marcy Still penciling on paper ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:36:42 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Revflow Message-ID: <20010311.163643.-240255.0.klw1953@juno.com> When I shut down my S,right before it quits it revs up approx 1000 or more rpms. I think I read some where that indicates a rich mixture condition. I have a new Rev-Flow carb and if what I'm saying is true then how do you lean this thing out, rejet it or what ever. Thanks----------------Kenny ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:27:18 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: "Sanding Board" success! Message-ID: <87.80026b3.27dd63d6@aol.com> --part1_87.80026b3.27dd63d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings Netters, One of our brethern was telling us of rolling and tipping as a finishing technique, and in the process told us how to make a "sanding board" that is sized to hold two large sheets of sand paper, side by side, and how using this tool will greatly reduce the stress and time of sanding large areas. Well, if you have sanding to do (don't we all?) and haven't tried this yet, you don't know what you're missing!! I started and finished sanding the lower stub wing skin mold my partner and I started on last fall in about two hours, and that time included changing through 3 grits of paper and refilling a few areas with Bondo twice (don't panic, this is a mold, not a piece of flying hardware!) -- I think I spent more time changing the paper than actually sanding! For a better reference, I took the top of one side of my horizontal stabilizer from a rough 5 coats of smooth prime to a finished surface in about 15 minutes, changing paper grit twice. That means I spent less than 5 minutes sanding...!!! I'm not going to do any more of this until I've got the whole plane primed, because changing paper takes longer than it does to do a small job. Unless, of course I find a faster way to change paper. Currently I'm using rubber cement to attach the paper to the board. Anyone have a better idea? Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part1_87.80026b3.27dd63d6_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:01:13 -0600 To: EagleGator@aol.com From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> "Sanding Board" success! Message-ID: <3AAC11C9.1401541E@execpc.com> Hi Rick, Try 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. Please tell us how you made the sanding board as I am almost to the sanding stage and would like to ease my pain a little. Thanks, Mark Jones EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > Greetings Netters, > > One of our brethern was telling us of rolling and tipping as a finishing > technique, and in the process told us how to make a "sanding board" that is > sized to hold two large sheets of sand paper, side by side, and how using > this tool will greatly reduce the stress and time of sanding large areas. > > Well, if you have sanding to do (don't we all?) and haven't tried this yet, > you don't know what you're missing!! I started and finished sanding the lower > stub wing skin mold my partner and I started on last fall in about two hours, > and that time included changing through 3 grits of paper and refilling a few > areas with Bondo twice (don't panic, this is a mold, not a piece of flying > hardware!) -- I think I spent more time changing the paper than actually > sanding! For a better reference, I took the top of one side of my horizontal > stabilizer from a rough 5 coats of smooth prime to a finished surface in > about 15 minutes, changing paper grit twice. That means I spent less than 5 > minutes sanding...!!! > > I'm not going to do any more of this until I've got the whole plane primed, > because changing paper takes longer than it does to do a small job. Unless, > of course I find a faster way to change paper. Currently I'm using rubber > cement to attach the paper to the board. Anyone have a better idea? > > Cheers, > Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO > EagleGator@aol.com -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:12:58 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> "Sanding Board" success! Message-ID: --part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_alt_boundary" --part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgot to include the krnet... Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgot to include the krnet...

Cheers,
Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO
EagleGator@aol.com
--part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_alt_boundary-- --part1_c8.11874968.27dd7c9a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: EagleGator@aol.com Full-name: EagleGator Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:12:03 EST Subject: Re: KR> "Sanding Board" success! To: flykr2s@execpc.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_c8.11874968.27dd7c63_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 350 --part2_c8.11874968.27dd7c63_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/01 6:00:30 PM Central Standard Time, flykr2s@execpc.com writes: > Hi Rick, > Try 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. Please tell us how you made the sanding > board > as I am almost to the sanding stage and would like to ease my pain a little. > Thanks, > Mark Jones > Ooops, my bad! I made my sanding board from a piece of scrap 3/32 plywood and some other odds and ends from my shop. It's sized to fit two full sheets of sand paper side by side. I used 5 minute epoxy to attach two handles, made from scrap wood, to the back side of the board. The original post, as I remember it, suggested using large dowels, but I didn't have any today. So, I just used two pieces, about 1.5 x .75 x 6, glued on the .75 edge. It worked ok, but I think I'll make another one with dowels screwed end-wise onto the back. On the business side of the board, I glued a piece of scrap tool drawer liner over the entire surface. The original post recomended 1/4" foam, I think, but I didn't have any laying around (are you picking up on a theme here?). The original post then had you glue a piece of plastic over the foam to provide a surface to glue the sand paper to, but my tool drawer liner had a finished surface already, so I skipped this step. The last step, for me, was to use rubber cement (which I saw on a shelf in my shop...) to attach the sand paper to the tool drawer liner. This holds it nice and firm, but also makes it very easy to remove the paper, and then just roll off the rubber cement residue before attaching the new paper. I can't remember what was originally suggested for this. Move the board back and forth, not around in a circle, for best results. I worked it widthwise on the piece, and then lengthwise. Worked for me! Hope this helps, sorry for the earlier omission! Cheers, Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO EagleGator@aol.com --part2_c8.11874968.27dd7c63_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/01 6:00:30 PM Central Standard Time,
flykr2s@execpc.com writes:


Hi Rick,
Try 3M Super 77 spray adhesive.  Please tell us how you made the sanding
board
as I am almost to the sanding stage and would like to ease my pain a little.
Thanks,
Mark Jones


Ooops, my bad!

I made my sanding board from a piece of scrap 3/32 plywood and some other
odds and ends from my shop. It's sized to fit two full sheets of sand paper
side by side.

I used 5 minute epoxy to attach two handles, made from scrap wood, to the
back side of the board. The original post, as I remember it, suggested using
large dowels, but I didn't have any today. So, I just used two pieces, about
1.5 x .75 x 6, glued on the .75 edge. It worked ok, but I think I'll make
another one with dowels screwed end-wise onto the back.

On the business side of the board, I glued a piece of scrap tool drawer liner
over the entire surface. The original post recomended 1/4" foam, I think, but
I didn't have any laying around (are you picking up on a theme here?). The
original post then had you glue a piece of plastic over the foam to provide a
surface to glue the sand paper to, but my tool drawer liner had a finished
surface already, so I skipped this step.

The last step, for me, was to use rubber cement (which I saw on a shelf in my
shop...) to attach the sand paper to the tool drawer liner. This holds it
nice and firm, but also makes it very easy to remove the paper, and then just
roll off the rubber cement residue before attaching the new paper. I can't
remember what was originally suggested for this.

Move the board back and forth, not around in a circle, for best results. I
worked it widthwise on the piece, and then lengthwise. Worked for me!

Hope this helps, sorry for the earlier omission!

Cheers,
Rick Junkin, St. Charles MO
EagleGator@aol.com
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