From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 11 Apr 2001 00:42:42 -0000 Issue 205 Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:43 PM krnet Digest 11 Apr 2001 00:42:42 -0000 Issue 205 Topics (messages 4949 through 4961): local KR aircraft? 4949 by: Berry Rennie 4950 by: Robert Cooper Re: 2001 KR Gathering 4951 by: Wayland T Stokes Books? 4952 by: Berry Rennie 4953 by: Austin Clark 4957 by: CS Fasteners And Air flow? 4954 by: POND CARTER 4955 by: Mark Jones Big Error! 4956 by: Manager Bill Does somebody know the aba routing code for RR's bank? 4958 by: Peter Nauta N323XL Website Update 4959 by: David Mullins 4961 by: Oscar Zuniga inspections 4960 by: Edwin Blocher Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:20:09 -0400 To: From: "Berry Rennie" Subject: local KR aircraft? Message-ID: <001401c0c09b$9b4f4020$b9535c40@yohan> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0C07A.12CDE380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know of someone that has a KR of any model in the eastern = North Carolina area if so please let me know would really like to ride = in one to feel what the final product is like. Thank You=20 Berry Rennie ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0C07A.12CDE380-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:45:15 -0700 To: "Berry Rennie" , "krnet" From: "Robert Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> local KR aircraft? Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0C07D.941F5420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Berry My friend Gene Byrd has a KR-2S in Linden NC, near Fayetteville. He has n= ot completed the test flight hours yet and so is not giving rides in it. = If you are interested in looking, touching and asking questions he is usu= ally very accomidating. He is not on the net so if you would like to see = it I will be glad to coordinate a visit for you when I get back from Sun = & Fun. You can see his KR on my website. Click the link below. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ----- Original Message ----- From: Berry Rennie Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:11 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> local KR aircraft? Does anyone know of someone that has a KR of any model in the eastern Nor= th Carolina area if so please let me know would really like to ride in on= e to feel what the final product is like. Thank You =20 Berry Rennie
= Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0C07D.941F5420-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 21:58:22 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Wayland T Stokes Subject: Fw: Re: KR> 2001 KR Gathering Message-ID: <20010408.215823.-637113.0.tomstokes1@juno.com> --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wayland T Stokes To: kr2jm@d-web.com Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:26:39 -0700 Subject: Re: KR> 2001 KR Gathering Jim The gathering will be September 21-23, Fly-in Director is Tommy Waymack, 870-535-3294 or blindate@seark.net, he is not on the KR net. We recommend the Best Western Pines Motel 800-528-1234 or 870-535-8640 or The Hampton Inn 800-HAMPTON or 870-850-0444, mention you are with The KR Gathering. Tentative Gathering Schedule Friday, Sept 21 - Arrivals and hanger flying Saturday, Sept 22 - Flying, Demonstrations, Judging Sunday, Sept 23 - Farewells and Departures Gathering Host and Air Boss Tommy Waymack will be providing additional fly in information. You-all Come On. I live in Pine Bluff and if there is anything I can do for anyone let me know. Tom Stokes White Hall, AR tomstokes1@juno.com or tomstokes1@aol.com On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 18:53:53 -0700 "Jim Morehead" writes: > Netter's > What is the date for the 2001 KR Gathering, and who is the > contact > person? > > Jim Morehead > Cameron Park, CA > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:41:45 -0400 To: From: "Berry Rennie" Subject: Books? Message-ID: <000c01c0c124$c76d8200$51a30ad8@yohan> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0C103.335BF0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New to aircraft building are there any must have books especially since = I want to do some mods all help appreciated also does the KR2 have any = aerobatic capabilities nothing crazy just a barrel role or something = like that curiouse. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0C103.335BF0E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:56:14 -0500 To: "Berry Rennie" , From: "Austin Clark" Subject: Re: KR> Books? Message-ID: <000801c0c161$91624960$0100a8c0@mshome.net> The following four books by Tony Bengelis have been a valuable reference source for me; "The Sportplane Builder" "Sportplane Construction Techniques" "Firewall Forward" "Bingelis on Engines" They sell for around $20 each and Wicks and Aircraft Spruce carry them. Austin Clark www.datasync.com/~itac/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berry Rennie" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: KR> Books? New to aircraft building are there any must have books especially since I want to do some mods all help appreciated also does the KR2 have any aerobatic capabilities nothing crazy just a barrel role or something like that curiouse. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:25:58 -0700 (PDT) To: Berry Rennie , krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Re: KR> Books? Message-ID: <20010410102558.67927.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Berry... The following books on design were recommended to me by Mark Langford. I haven't ordered them yet but only because I'm bleeding money lately, what with the move, buying two planes, off to MA this morning to pick up one of them, etc. Light Airplane Design by Pazmany Bud Evans' Light Plane Designer's Handbook. Also, check out Speed with Economy by Kent Paser, there's a nice article on it in this month's Sport Aviation (EAA magazine). Chuck --- Berry Rennie wrote: > New to aircraft building are there any must have > books especially since I want to do some mods all > help appreciated also does the KR2 have any > aerobatic capabilities nothing crazy just a barrel > role or something like that curiouse. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:11:06 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Fasteners And Air flow? Message-ID: <3AD295EA.75DB4724@home.com> When do you use a castle nut with cotter pin and when is ok to use nylon locking nuts? Does air flow better thru round holes like Lancair cowling or square like Glasair? Can I use sheet metel/wood screws to hold my alum. hinge to firewall for cowling mount? Thanks Carter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:48:22 -0500 To: POND CARTER From: Mark Jones CC: kr Subject: Re: KR> Fasteners And Air flow? Message-ID: <3AD27475.A8A12649@execpc.com> POND CARTER wrote: > When do you use a castle nut with cotter pin and when is ok to use nylon > locking nuts? You must use castle nut and cotter pin on any moving assembly, if the bolt is used for pivot point or has the possibility of rotating. Nylon lock nuts can be used anywhere the bolt is stationary and is not used in motion. In the firewall forward area, all lock nuts should be the all metal type on stationary bolts and of course castle nut and cotter pin on all rotating bolts. > > > Does air flow better thru round holes like Lancair cowling or square > like Glasair? I am unsure here, maybe someone else will clear this up for us. > > > Can I use sheet metel/wood screws to hold my alum. hinge to firewall for > cowling mount? This is your call but personally I will use bolts with lock nuts as vibration can and will remove wood screws for you. I sure would hate to loose part of a cowl in flight. > > > Thanks > Carter -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:22:07 -0700 To: Krnet From: Manager Bill Subject: Big Error! Message-ID: <3AD28A6C.C6885FEF@nm.net> SUBJECT: Big Error! to the kr net A month ago I broadcast the results of KR stability calculations I had made in 1995. This precipitated a correspondence with Richard Mole in England, who turns out to be a very knowledgeable guy in matters of stability and control. In the process of comparing computations with Richard, I discovered that I had under-calculated the destabilizing effect of the KR fuselage by a factor of 57.2957795, a number that is forever engraved in my memory as the number of degrees in a radian. Measuring angles in radians is very convenient in mathematics because it eliminates a lot of messy constants that have to be carried along if angles are stated in degrees, but in engineering usage, degrees are often used instead of radians. Sure enough, the book, “Airplane Performance, Stability, and Control,” states right in the introduction to the section on stability and control, “All angles and derivatives with respect to angles will be stated in degrees to escape confusion.” I am primarily a theoretician, using experimental data to reconcile theoretical calculations with the real world, and have long been in the habit of using the radian measure of angles. So when I came to convert a number read from a graph by dividing that number by the lift curve slope, I used lift coefficient per radian instead of lift coefficient per degree, and got 0.0029, a very small number, for the destabilizing effect of the fuselage. The correct number turns out to be 0.073, or 7.3 percent of mean aerodynamic chord. Another mistake I made was to assume that the aerodynamic center of the wing is at 25 percent of mean aerodynamic chord. This is true for thin airfoils, but the well-known book, “Theory of Wing Sections,” shows that for thicker sections like the RAF 48, the aerodynamic center is more nearly at 24 percent mean aerodynamic chord. One percent of mac is 0.44 inches - not much, maybe, but appreciable. On correcting these two mistakes, using experimental data for the lift curve slopes of the wing and horizontal tail, and adjusting a couple of the other constants in the stability equation, I have determined a new number for the stick fixed neutral point of the airplane with propeller off. It is 26.34 inches aft of the aft face of the firewall, or 13.1 inches aft of the leading edge of the stub wing. The number I published in March, 19.1 inches aft of the stub wing leading edge, is WRONG. Richard Mole, using two different methods of estimating the effect of the fuselage, got 13.1 inches and 13.5 inches. These values are within about 2 percent of each other, so we agree about as well as can be expected considering that some of our data were read from graphs only a couple of inches on a side. Propeller off is not a very common flight condition, and we analyze it chiefly because it is relatively easy to calculate and because it gives about the most aft c.g. than can ever be calculated. It is therefore somewhat alarming to realize that Rand and Robinson allowed a c.g. as much as 16 inches aft of the stub wing leading edge. In the course of a long career, I have learned that theory is often a poor preparation for reality, and I am prepared to learn that, notwithstanding the calculated results, the useable c.g. range of the KR-2 is as published by Rand and Robinson. However, I would urge anyone who is undertaking his or her first flights in a KR to keep the c.g. near the forward limit, and to approach aft c.g. very cautiously. There are plenty of anecdotes about the extreme sensitivity of the KR with both seats occupied. But we need numbers, not anecdotes. There is a simple series of flight tests that will define the stick-fixed, power-on neutral c.g. location for any airplane that can be flown. It requires a day or so of preparation, a series of three flights, some simple data reduction, and the preparation of four simple graphs. The first three graphs are straight lines showing the variation of stick position with lift coefficient at three c.g. locations. The fourth graph is a plot of the slopes of the first three graphs plotted as the variation of slope with c.g. position, with the line through the three points extended to the c.g. location where the slope is zero. By definition, this is the stick-fixed neutral point of the airplane. Preparation. First you need to weigh your airplane three times. The first weighing is with full fuel and your own weight in the cockpit. For the second weighing, put 50 pounds of additional weight in the passenger seat, and for the third weighing, put 100 pounds in the passenger seat. Find both the weight and the c.g. for all three conditions. Now put a small hook or open loop in your instrument panel directly in front of the control stick. Tie a small fishing weight to a length of cotton string, lead it through the loop on the panel, and tie the free end of the string to the control stick, with the weight hanging from the loop. Make sure the string is long enough for you to pull the stick all the way back. Get a Magic Marker pen to mark the string with, and get ready to fly. Make the first flight with the passenger seat empty. Climb to a safe altitude and fly for a minute at 80 mph. It is not important to get the speed exactly 80 mph, but it is important that you hold the speed steady and write it down accurately. When everything is steady, mark the string where it enters the loop. Add power and speed up to 100 mph. Get the speed and the stick position steady, and mark the string again. Add more power and speed up to 120 mph. Get it steady again, and mark the string. If you can get to 130 or 140 mph, get everything steady and mark the string again. Now go back to the airport and land. Load the airplane with 50 pounds in the passenger seat and tie a new piece of string to the control stick. Take off, climb, and repeat the four speeds with the new c.g., marking the string at each speed. Keep enough notes so you will know what the speeds were. Go back to the airport, load 100 pounds in the seat, and tie on another new string. Go fly again, marking the string at four different speeds. Go back to the airport; the flying part is done. Be sure to label each string with the c.g. for the flight it was used on. Data Reduction. Start at the mark on each string that is furthest from the stick. Measure the distance from this mark to each of the other marks. Now convert each speed to a pseudo lift coefficient. Do this by dividing 40,000 by the square of the speed. For example, 40,000 divided by 100 squared is 4.00; 40,000 divided by 80 squared is 6.25, and so on. For each piece of string, make a graph of stick position (mark on the string) on the vertical axis, and pseudo lift coefficient on the horizontal axis. You should get a series of X’s making a line that slopes down to the right. Draw a straight line that comes as close as possible to all the X’s. The closeness of each X to the line is a measure of the accuracy of your data. Take a protractor and measure the angle between each sloping line, and write the angle and the c.g. that was flown on a list. Now you have three pairs of data points. Make a fourth graph with c.g. on the horizontal axis and slope angle on the vertical axis. Again, you should get three X’s defining a line that shows the angle getting smaller as the c.g. moves toward the rear. Draw the line of best fit through these three X’s and extend it to the c.g. where the angle is zero. Voila! You have determined the stick fixed, power-on neutral point for your airplane. Share the data you get with the kr net, and we will find out how differences in propellers, cowlings, fairings, canopies, and other mods affect stability. Let’s all use the same reference point for measuring the c.g. Because the wing is so important, I suggest that we use the leading edge of the stub wings as the reference This has been a lengthy explanation because I found that in my EAA chapter a lot of the guys had forgotten about making graphs when they were in high school. Not all of us are engineers or technicians. For those of you who are, forgive me for going into such detail. For those who aren’t and need more explanation, contact me off line and I will explain it better. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:29:34 +0200 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: Does somebody know the aba routing code for RR's bank? Message-ID: Hi guys, I want to know the ABA routing code for the Bank of America, Springdale - Edinger Branch no. 0961. This happens to be the bank where Jeanette has the RR checking account, where I want to transfer funds to for a order. Maybe somebody bought something off RR and can see this on his/her account overview? Also, while on the subject: what a better proposition: WAFs from RR or WAFs from (Mark & Dr Dean) TET? Groeten, Peter Nauta p.nauta@wanadoo.nl (until june 2001) pnauta@xs4all.nl (from june 2001 onwards) +31(0)6 51411018 Fax: +31(0)20 8663552 Fax and voicemail: +1(413)235-8017 http://www.fs2000.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:22:26 -0400 To: krnet From: David Mullins Subject: N323XL Website Update Message-ID: <3AD32532.6CD700BA@ici.net> OK Netters, The next update to my website has been uploaded. There are 5 updated pages and 15 new pages added. They are in the Fuselage, Corvair Motor Mount, Canopy, Front Deck, Turtledeck, HS, VS, plus a couple of odd pages. http://n323xl.iwarp.com Everything completed so far, except the spars, was completed in the past 5 months. The garage has been given back to its owner. So I 'm looking for a new roost to complete the building process. My bird is stored with a friend for about a month who is building a RV-8. While it is stored I will build the first Corvair engine and make some control brackets. Albert Pecoraro stopped by Sunday night to see my progress. I am considering driving to the Gathering and trailer my bird there. It is 1600 miles each way so I need some prodding from the net if you want me to do it. Let me know. David Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire http://n323xl.iwarp.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:30:39 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: N323XL Website Update Message-ID: David Mullins wrote: > > The next update to my website has been uploaded. There > are 5 updated pages and 15 new pages added. They are in > the Fuselage, Corvair Motor Mount, Canopy, Front Deck, > Turtledeck, HS, VS, plus a couple of odd pages. > > http://n323xl.iwarp.com Now this is what inspires others! Just go to the 'fuselage' page when you have about 10 or 15 free minutes and start paging through. In 5 months this thing has come together beautifully. Very nice! (One that's equally inspiring is Mark Jones' fuselage construction). Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:22:27 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: inspections Message-ID: <001001c0c1eb$3540fa20$69e579a5@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0C1C1.49DDDEA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this has been discussed before, but we have a lot of new people = on here now (besides I forgot). What inspections are required and by = who? How much can you doccument with photos and use for inspection = records? ie: do you need an inspection on the spars before you close = them or can you take pictures and keep a record of how they were built? Thanks Ed Ed Blocher Moody, Alabama (soon to be Santa Rosa Beach, Florida) kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0C1C1.49DDDEA0-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************