From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 2 May 2001 02:27:04 -0000 Issue 214 Date: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 7:27 PM krnet Digest 2 May 2001 02:27:04 -0000 Issue 214 Topics (messages 5086 through 5110): Re: Seats 5086 by: JC Marais Re: Fasteners And Air flow? 5087 by: JC Marais Re: HOT SPACE RESEARCH YIELDS COOLER DOWN-TO-EARTH BENEFITS (fwd) 5088 by: JC Marais N813ED went to the airport today 5089 by: Dale Baldwin H.S. 5090 by: Tim Brown 5102 by: Dale Baldwin KR-2 FOR SALE 5091 by: Kr2skip.aol.com 5103 by: Kr2skip.aol.com horz. stab. 5092 by: larry flesner 5096 by: John Esch Re: Mailinglists.org, KR2 for sale 5093 by: Mark Langford 5094 by: Mark Langford Vinylester vs Epoxy 5095 by: Kerry Miller 5097 by: macwood 5099 by: w.g. kirkland 5100 by: kmiller01.ticnet.com 5101 by: bob.cringely.com 5104 by: Jan Laan 5105 by: George Allen KRs Over Texas 5098 by: Frank Ross KR'S Over Texas 5106 by: Laheze.aol.com 5109 by: CS alternate engine 5107 by: SLemke1.aol.com 5108 by: Peter Nauta test msg - disregard 5110 by: John Bryhan Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:07:18 +0200 To: , From: "JC Marais" Subject: Re: KR> Seats Message-ID: <000101c0d0eb$afcf8a40$4fc4ef9b@jc> Hi Netters, This past weekend (27 - 29 April) we had our South African EAA 2001 fly-in. Smaller than your Sun & Fun, but the biggest in Africa. I saw a new plane, the SAMBA from URBAN AIR light aircraft (Czech (sp?) Republic), with beautiful and light seats. I am not sure about the bottom, but the loose back was a single fiberglass mould, covered with thin sponge (if I remember correctly, about 2-4 cm (1-2 inches)). Depending on cost, that will be my first choice. Happy building and flying. JC South Africa From: Subject: KR> Seats > Has anyone bought or tried out the seats from Oregon Aero for their KR? > If so, how did you like them? Is there some other outfit that makes similar > or better seats and how did you like them if you bought theirs instead? > Thanks...... > > Jim Hayward > Rapid City, SD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:22:40 +0200 To: "POND CARTER" , "kr" From: "JC Marais" Subject: Re: KR> Fasteners And Air flow? Message-ID: <000201c0d0eb$b10d6170$4fc4ef9b@jc> Hi there, Pond asked 3 questions, and it seems that the second (round vs square holes) was not really discussed. I am not sure how big the influence will be, but: - We want to reduce drag as much as possible. - Drag is created by air moving over a contact area. (no technical discussions please) - For a given area, a round hole has the least contact area. JC ----- Original Message ----- From: "POND CARTER" To: "kr" Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:11 AM Subject: KR> Fasteners And Air flow? > When do you use a castle nut with cotter pin and when is ok to use nylon > locking nuts? > > Does air flow better thru round holes like Lancair cowling or square > like Glasair? > > Can I use sheet metel/wood screws to hold my alum. hinge to firewall for > cowling mount? > > Thanks > Carter > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:21:12 +0200 To: "Troy Johnson" , "Steven Eberhart" , From: "JC Marais" Subject: Re: KR> HOT SPACE RESEARCH YIELDS COOLER DOWN-TO-EARTH BENEFITS (fwd) Message-ID: <000501c0d0eb$b4a55540$4fc4ef9b@jc> > Thanks Steve, > > Maybe I will be able to paint my KR a bright shiny red after all !!!! > > Troy > Troy, Or maybe we could paint on top of the pistons and the inside of the heads and reduce cooling requirements. What a dream. JC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:03:02 -0400 To: From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: N813ED went to the airport today Message-Id: <20010429230537.BFRM9072.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@computername> Today N813ED went to the airport sans engine and mount. A basicly stock KR-2 with the wings intack. She sat with wings going fore and aft on a 16' trailer, with the tail up in the air. Probably illegal as sin, but at 5 am not much traffic. Anyway didn't have to cut the fiberglass to remove the wings. Not having to make fairings for wing attach is one less thing to do. And I'm all for less things to build. Dale Baldwin, KR-2 ATL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:42:05 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: H.S. Message-ID: <20010430004205.69687.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> To: All that have built or are building a more-or-less stock 2 or 2S: Question: What are you doing at the outer edge of the H.S. where there is the 5/8 X 5/8 spruce? 1) Round over the spruce 2) add foam outside and round it over 3) nothing, just glass the spruce as is. I have been told that it is next to impossible to glass over a square edge, that is why I am asking. Another question: It seems that the elevator outer edge 5/8 X 5/8 spruce needs to be tapered to zero, but the plans and manual don't say. Am I right? Do I sand these pieces "to a point"? Thanks for the responses. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:36:28 -0400 To: "Tim Brown" , "Group KR NET" From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: Re: KR> H.S. Message-Id: <20010430211328.MRBP1419.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@computername> Tim, As I recall I put about a 3/16 to 1/4 radious on the fore and aft piece of spruce. It didn't seem like it was enough as the glass fought to lay down, but then my glass was at 90 deg., 45 deg would make it easier. My trailing edge is about 1/8 wide mostly so some unsuspecting person doesn't scrape their leg. Don't need to lawyers more work. Dale Baldwin, KR-2 ATL ---------- > What are you doing at the outer edge of the H.S. where > there is the 5/8 X 5/8 spruce? > > I have been told that it is next to impossible to > glass over a square edge, that is why I am asking. > > > Another question: It seems that the elevator outer > edge 5/8 X 5/8 spruce needs to be tapered to zero, but > the plans and manual don't say. Am I right? Do I > sand these pieces "to a point"? > > Thanks for the responses. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:50:06 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kr2skip@aol.com Subject: KR-2 FOR SALE Message-ID: --part1_ca.14479598.281e10be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case this doesn't get through (AOL) I have asked Mark to post it for me as I am not receiving any mail. You can contact me at nfckr3@aol.com. Thanks Skip Carden 250KB --part1_ca.14479598.281e10be_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:30:01 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kr2skip@aol.com Subject: KR-2 For Sale Message-ID: --part1_f8.9a4cf4d.281f4f79_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am still on AOL's hit list so here is the info on my KR-2. If you want to contact me by email send to , nfckr3@aol.com The details on the plane can be viewed at: http://members.aol.com/nfckr3/KR2-Forsale.jpg Thanks Skip Carden and 250KB --part1_f8.9a4cf4d.281f4f79_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:10:45 -0500 To: Tim Brown ,Group KR NET From: larry flesner Subject: horz. stab. Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010429211045.00868e80@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Question: >What are you doing at the outer edge of the H.S. where >there is the 5/8 X 5/8 spruce? >I have been told that it is next to impossible to >glass over a square edge, that is why I am asking. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tim, Just round the spruce and glass. The easiest way to radius uniform is to sand the two square corners (front to back) to make a 45 degree flat spot. Use the width of the flat spot as a guage to keep the piece uniform. After you have the two 45's sanded, start to round it over. You'll be surprised how well it will turn out. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Another question: It seems that the elevator outer >edge 5/8 X 5/8 spruce needs to be tapered to zero, but >the plans and manual don't say. Am I right? Do I >sand these pieces "to a point"? >Tim +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes , they need to be tapered. I held my trail edge to about 1/8 inch. I recall cutting mine to shape before assembly and then rounding the edges as stated above. Your results may vary............ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:53:33 -0700 To: larry flesner From: John Esch CC: Tim Brown , Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> horz. stab. Message-ID: <3AECE1BD.C73EB4DE@earthlink.net> Or try glueing a small piece of foam, shape and glass. John F. Esch KR-2S Taxiway Bonanza, Independence, Or larry flesner wrote: > >Question: > >What are you doing at the outer edge of the H.S. where > >there is the 5/8 X 5/8 spruce? > >I have been told that it is next to impossible to > >glass over a square edge, that is why I am asking. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Tim, > Just round the spruce and glass. The easiest way to radius > uniform is to sand the two square corners (front to back) to > make a 45 degree flat spot. Use the width of the flat spot as > a guage to keep the piece uniform. After you have the two 45's > sanded, start to round it over. You'll be surprised how well > it will turn out. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >Another question: It seems that the elevator outer > >edge 5/8 X 5/8 spruce needs to be tapered to zero, but > >the plans and manual don't say. Am I right? Do I > >sand these pieces "to a point"? > >Tim > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Yes , they need to be tapered. I held my trail edge to about > 1/8 inch. I recall cutting mine to shape before assembly and > then rounding the edges as stated above. > > Your results may vary............ > > Larry Flesner > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:15:11 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Cc: Subject: Fw: Mailinglists.org, KR2 for sale Message-ID: <002c01c0d11b$63113c50$561cf618@600athlon> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0D0F1.79F048A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Realizing that many of the AOL guys didn't get my message Saturday, I = sifted through the member list and sent it directly to the 110 = KRNetHeads that use AOL. I asked all of them that didn't recieve the = Saturday version to reply to me, and to bitch incessantly until AOL = fixed the problem. I've gotten 27 replies so far, from guys who thought = KRNet dried up and blew away! What's odd is that only a quarter of them = are affected. The following is from Skip Carden in Maine, who wants to sell his KR = N250KB, which was originally built by Don Betchan of Perry Oklahoma = (Gathering host two years in a row). There are lots of photos of his = very nice airplane (which has a lot of inovative ideas on it, including = retractable gear made from motorcycle forks that retract inward and an = alternator from an Onan industrial engine built into the spinner backing = plate), at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k97gathr.html , = http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k969.jpg , = http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k9616.jpg , and = http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/98092086.jpg among other places = relating to various Gatherings that you can get to from my web page. = This is one of the finer examples of the species. Whoever buys this one = will have an immediate show plane worthy of Gathering appearances. No, = I don't get a commission, but it's nice to look at... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kr2skip@aol.com=20 To: Mark Langford=20 Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 7:45 PM Subject: Mailinglists.org I just emailed AOL and told them that I was not receiving this mail and = that=20 it was important because it was for aircraft builders. I also said that = I=20 might have to find another service if they couldn't fix it!=20 Skip Carden=20 (Wondered why I wasn't seeing much mail) I also have decided to sell my = KR-2=20 would you please post it for me? Thanks Skip Carden and 250KB. They = should=20 contact me at nfckr3@aol.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0D0F1.79F048A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:20:47 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Fw: Mailinglists.org, KR2 for sale Message-ID: <004a01c0d11c$2b41dcc0$561cf618@600athlon> I lied. I don't think there's a single picture of Don's KR at the first URL that I listed, but there IS a decent one at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k9631.jpg that I didn't mention before. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:37:31 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010429213731.007a9b80@pop3.ticnet.com> Hey vinylester-heads, You guys missed a good KR fly-in at Canton, Larry put on a good show on the ground and Martin Roberts did his usual impressive job in the air! We did a little fiberglass forum to show some of the new and wannabe builders how to do it, and started a discussion with Martin, Les Palmer and Dennis Pointer about the virtues of vinylester vs epoxy. I know it will set up faster than epoxy, to me it also seems like it's a little harder to wet out and it's a little sticky so layups are a little more of a hassle but not a lot. Looking at the specs in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, it looks a lot stronger but not quite as hard. From talking to Martin and some of the other guys it seems like the speed and cost (less than half as much $ as epoxy) are the main reasons for using it, especially in a commercial situation like selling molded parts. Is there any reason NOT to use vinylester? What are the disadvantages to using it instead of epoxy? Thanks for any input! Kerry Miller Proud owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:03:04 +0100 To: "Kerry Miller" From: "macwood" Cc: "krnet user group" Subject: Re: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-ID: <000701c0d165$38b71ac0$b33f3c3e@tinypc> Kerry, The main reason for doubt about the use of vinylester , is the suspect bonding to epoxy. I don't think there's any problem with the strength -My wings (Dan's skins ,bonded to the spars with vinylester,) stood up to a ground loop into a field of Canola, survived without a scratch Fortunately I could check the spar bonding through inspection panels in the bottom skin. Also I think the local firm who used to make 40foot wind generator blades, used vinylester. Those blades were tested to destruction, -only they couldn't get a rig big enough to destruct them! Cheers Mac ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerry Miller To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 3:37 AM Subject: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy > Hey vinylester-heads, > > You guys missed a good KR fly-in at Canton, Larry put on a good show on the > ground and Martin Roberts did his usual impressive job in the air! > > We did a little fiberglass forum to show some of the new and wannabe > builders how to do it, and started a discussion with Martin, Les Palmer and > Dennis Pointer about the virtues of vinylester vs epoxy. I know it will > set up faster than epoxy, to me it also seems like it's a little harder to > wet out and it's a little sticky so layups are a little more of a hassle > but not a lot. > > Looking at the specs in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, it looks a lot > stronger but not quite as hard. From talking to Martin and some of the > other guys it seems like the speed and cost (less than half as much $ as > epoxy) are the main reasons for using it, especially in a commercial > situation like selling molded parts. > > Is there any reason NOT to use vinylester? What are the disadvantages to > using it instead of epoxy? > > Thanks for any input! > Kerry Miller > Proud owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:26:13 -0400 To: , "Kerry Miller" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-ID: <030b01c0d19a$bc2cdf40$05b45bd1@kirkland> Kerry Vinlyester has a very strong smell that will get you kicked out of the house pretty quickly. Ther is a product called BYK S-750 a styrene suppressant that will greatly reduce the smell. Try your supplier. Also the esters must be "promoted" just before you buy them and they have a limited shelf life. About 4 months. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Miller" To: Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:37 PM Subject: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy > Hey vinylester-heads, > > You guys missed a good KR fly-in at Canton, Larry put on a good show on the > ground and Martin Roberts did his usual impressive job in the air! > > We did a little fiberglass forum to show some of the new and wannabe > builders how to do it, and started a discussion with Martin, Les Palmer and > Dennis Pointer about the virtues of vinylester vs epoxy. I know it will > set up faster than epoxy, to me it also seems like it's a little harder to > wet out and it's a little sticky so layups are a little more of a hassle > but not a lot. > > Looking at the specs in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, it looks a lot > stronger but not quite as hard. From talking to Martin and some of the > other guys it seems like the speed and cost (less than half as much $ as > epoxy) are the main reasons for using it, especially in a commercial > situation like selling molded parts. > > Is there any reason NOT to use vinylester? What are the disadvantages to > using it instead of epoxy? > > Thanks for any input! > Kerry Miller > Proud owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:15:00 GMT To: "w.g. kirkland" From: kmiller01@ticnet.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-ID: <20010430191500.6600.qmail@pop3.ticnet.com> Let me elaborate on my question a bit, but I've gotten some fairly favorable replies. I am already familiar with vinylester since we're using it to put some Diehl wing skins on a friend's KR. My question really is this - is there any reason not to build the whole plane out of it? I know about the smell (in fact my buddy had to stop on our first layup to take a break and throw up) and yes, when I got home my wife noticed it too. I also know it's a little tacky and pulls strings from the glass cloth, that's my biggest beef with it. Other than that, are there any reasons (structural or otherwise) not to use it on the rest of the plane, especially parts like the turtledeck, front deck and cowling? Thanks for all the helpful replies so far! I know the plans call for epoxy, but the original plans also said to use Dynel. Tnx, Kerry w.g. kirkland writes: > Kerry Vinlyester has a very strong smell that will get you kicked out of the > house pretty quickly. Ther is a product called BYK S-750 a styrene > suppressant that will greatly reduce the smell. Try your supplier. > Also the esters must be "promoted" just before you buy them and they have a > limited shelf life. About 4 months. > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > kirkland@vianet.on.ca > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerry Miller" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:37 PM > Subject: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy > > > > Hey vinylester-heads, > > > > You guys missed a good KR fly-in at Canton, Larry put on a good show on > the > > ground and Martin Roberts did his usual impressive job in the air! > > > > We did a little fiberglass forum to show some of the new and wannabe > > builders how to do it, and started a discussion with Martin, Les Palmer > and > > Dennis Pointer about the virtues of vinylester vs epoxy. I know it will > > set up faster than epoxy, to me it also seems like it's a little harder to > > wet out and it's a little sticky so layups are a little more of a hassle > > but not a lot. > > > > Looking at the specs in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, it looks a lot > > stronger but not quite as hard. From talking to Martin and some of the > > other guys it seems like the speed and cost (less than half as much $ as > > epoxy) are the main reasons for using it, especially in a commercial > > situation like selling molded parts. > > > > Is there any reason NOT to use vinylester? What are the disadvantages to > > using it instead of epoxy? > > > > Thanks for any input! > > Kerry Miller > > Proud owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 2001 13:55:29 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: bob@cringely.com Subject: Re: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-ID: <20010430205529.15233.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> I have built two Glasairs, which use vinylester, in addition to my epoxy KR-1, so I feel qualified to answer this question. The advantages of vinylester are somewhat lower cost and (this is the big one) better strength at high temperatures. You can pretty much paint your vinylester structure any color you want. The disadvantages of vinylester are the smell and (this is the other big one) the significantly poorer secondary bonding performance. It is much harder to get a good secondary bond with vinylester. For molded parts like the Diehl wing skins, vinylester makes good sense, but for KR-type moldless construction, it doesn't. I'd suggest sticking with epoxy for moldless parts. And for molded vinylester parts I'd suggest using epoxy or even Hysol paste adhesive, rather than vinylester for bonding. One final point. That stickiness you noted with vinylester is not indicative of the resin but of the promotion -- incorrect promotion. Either the resin was incorrectly promoted (some pre-promoted resin, especially sold by Aircraft Spruce, seems to have been mixed by people who didn't follow the directions) or you are using too much hardner. This will happen with polyester resin, too. Only use the proper amount of hardner. Adding just a little more isn't a safety measure. All it gets you is the effect you are noticing. But don't use too little, either. It will still kick off the resin, but take longer. Use what the chart says to use and you'll be fine. All the best, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:35:07 -0700 To: kmiller01@ticnet.com,"w.g. kirkland" From: Jan Laan Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Vinylester vs Epoxy Message-ID: <98867399502@smtp.vphos.net> At 07:15 PM 4/30/01 +0000, kmiller01@ticnet.com wrote: > >Let me elaborate on my question a bit, but I've gotten some fairly >favorable replies. I am already familiar with vinylester since we're using Hi, Glasairs were built ( and some still are ) using vinylester resins rather than epoxy as far as I know. Jan Laan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:33:02 -0400 To: From: "George Allen" Subject: Re: KR> vinylester vs epoxy Message-ID: <007601c0d1de$bac9b4e0$e0a5dcd8@george> ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C0D1BD.227FD140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Getting ready to order my KR2S plans. And I'm ready to tear down my = 'vair motor.=20 Can the vinylester be used for structural also? As with wood to wood? < Subject: KRs Over Texas Message-ID: <20010430150036.23134.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> I'd like to thank everyone who worked so hard to make this a great weekend. Larry Howell put us in the right place and did a lot of work to make it all a big success. I got to meet many more KR builders, pilots and wanna-be's. Fortunately Larry kept a pretty good list of who showed up for guys like me who can't remember my own name more than five seconds. Thanks to Kerry Miller and Curtis Wright for a great composite workshop. Marty Roberts flew in and gave us a GREAT show on Saturday AM. Paul (sorry, lost his last name) flew in with his tri-gear, sliding canopy, Subaru-powered KR2 and everyone got to see two great examples of how personalized a KR can be. Paul and Marty put on a great flying show. Got to see Larry's beautiful KR2 that I'd last seen at Copperstate a few years back and wondered where it was all this time. He-s converting it to tri-gear. Dennis Pointer had pictures of one of the most unusual and beautiful KR2s I've ever seen. Dennis is lucky to be alive after a downdraft on landing broke the plane and put him in the hospital for 10 months. He used molds for much of the plane and it was beautiful. Also got to take a tour of Les Palmer's hanger and sit in his beautiful Subaru powered KR2S with the ENGINE RUNNING. His new J-22 Subaru looks and SOUNDS great. He's hoping to have it at the Gathering this year. Got to meet a lot of folks I only knew on the KRnet and some from the net I've never heard from. Monty Miller had real nice picture file of his plane and I wish we could have seen it. At least I got a good idea of what kind of pictures are possible and what to strive for. I'm sure Larry will have more to say, but, again, I want to thank everyone who put so much into making this a great get-together. Hope to see you all at this year's gathering! ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:50:48 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: KR'S Over Texas Message-ID: Hi Netters! The KR'S Over Texas Fly-in was a great success as far as I am concerned. If I had met just one great guy I would have been elated but I got to meet at least 20 great KR builders and I want to thank all that came and helped me have fun. I want to thank Kerry Miller and Curtis(Richard) Wright for a great job doing the composites workshop, Monte Miller for his newsletter coverage and support, Bud Wilson for flying in his Subaru powered KR2, and Marty Roberts for coming and performing some great high speed low level fly-bys, overs, unders, ups, and arounds. Wow! saying it makes me as dizzy as watching it! He is a talented pilot! I thought it was a radio controlled plane until it landed and a real human stepped out of it. hee hee just kidding. Jesse and Mark Thompson who own the private airport where we had the fly-in were very gracious and helpful hosts, and I thank them for allowing us the use of their facilities. Jesse liked the KR planes and people so well that he wants me to make this fly-in an annual thing. As of now we will be planning on it. There sure are a lot of good people building KR1and 2 airplanes. We had 25 KR flyers, builders, almost builders, and wannabe builder/flyers. They were: Bob Stone, Andrew Howell, Kerry Miller, Dean Smith, A.F. Brown, Stephen Teate, Dennis Pointer, Martin Roberts, Frank Ross, Veldon Ross, Richard McCall, Randy Smith, Trent Fleming, Monte Miller, Jerry Burchfield, Lester Palmer, Mirek Przytulski, Bobby Whisenant, Chip Vaughn, Richard Wright, Chuck Smith, Bud Wilson, Klaus Tmemper, and Larry Howell better known as (me). If I left out anyone, or misspelled any names (by the way my wife who is a school teacher said some of you need to learn how to write! :) please let me know and we will get you in. There were of course a lot of other people there that were flying and driving other things that weren't KR related. They were all great people also. We had people there from Louisiana, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas as far as I know. I wish more could have come. Thanks a million Guys. We can accomplish amazing things with the support and physical help of each other. Keep it up! Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 01:23:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Laheze@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Re: KR> KR'S Over Texas Message-ID: <20010501082351.11146.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Larry, Agree with ya KRsOT was a success, not only from a learning/idea swapping standpoint, but also it was just a lot of fun. Also agree that Jesse was not only a gracious host, but also a fun guy to BS with. The ideas I picked up at the seminar (freezer pumps and Wal-Mart-ester, you had to be there) were worth many times the price of admission. Also watching Marty "checkin' the winsock" on the low-level pass made me want to head to the house and start building. FYI, made it to Abilene on Sunday and picked up the KR 2, it's sittin' safely in my garage. One year to sign-off is the target. Also my thanks to Kerry and Curtis. I hope KRsOT becomes an annual event...in fact I hope to fly to the next one. Driving 'cross them prairies sucks big-time. Advice to new guys (and gals): If you've not been to a KR event, go. It's worth the time/drive/money. I hadn't planned to make the Gathering this year in Pine Bluff...after KRsOT, I'll do my best to be there. More advice...If ya ain't prepared to defend your ideas/opinions, don't bother bringin' 'em up. I finally figured out that for every ten KR flyers/builders/dreamers, there are twenty "right" ways to build the damn thing. Thanks again, Larry, good show...even if your wife did do all the "real" work. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:05:18 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: SLemke1@aol.com Subject: alternate engine Message-ID: --part1_df.13fbe9a1.281f8ffe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello KR net It's been kind of slow lately and I haven't contributed to much recently so I thought I would bring up an entirerly new topic for polite conversation. I was out looking at a new toy that I could not afford and was reminded of a topic that showed up on the krnet. It was about using a BMW motorcycle motor in a kr2s. The motor was the horizontal opposed two cylinder. Seemed perfect for conversion but then I looked at a cutaway diagram of a k100 BMW motorcycle engine. This engine is a horizontal inline four cylinder, water cooled and fuel injected. It also produces about 130 hp. In this horizontal config the crank is off to one side and has an internal gearing to get the power output shaft in the center of the engine. With the swaping out of the crank gear and the addition of an intermediate transfer gear you would have a built in psru. The only addition I can see is a thrust bearing and a prop hub and it would be ready to go. I know i am overlooking a lot of details but I thought this may peak some interest Steve Lemke Omaha Nebraska --part1_df.13fbe9a1.281f8ffe_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:47:25 +0200 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: RE: KR> alternate engine Message-ID: Hi, I was the guy that brought up the subject of the BMW 2 cylinder. I checked the specs for the K motor, but wasn't that impressed. I overlookd the psru factor. As for now I'm still focused on the R motor. As for one: it's done 250 hours on a Cherry, and somemore on a second Cherry. Lots of problems were ironed out, like exhaust designs (we have to do noise tests over here to keep landing fees down) and reliability and suitability is now proven to our local authorities. The only problem I saw so far, was the height of the engine, which is now solved by using the generator backwards between firewall and engine and using a shorter belt. I have drawings and writeups in German, as well as address of Takeoff GmbH in Germany. I will be able to forward the rather hefty attachments of the net to those interesed. I have some pics of the setup in a Cherry as well. Let me know. Keep us posted on your thoughts on the K engine too. I will speak to Renny de Leeuw on why he didn't choose the K engine right away. Regards, Peter Nauta > -----Original Message----- > From: SLemke1@aol.com [mailto:SLemke1@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 6:05 AM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> alternate engine > > > Hello KR net > > It's been kind of slow lately and I haven't contributed to much > recently so I > thought I would bring up an entirerly new topic for polite conversation. > > I was out looking at a new toy that I could not afford and was > reminded of a > topic that showed up on the krnet. It was about using a BMW > motorcycle motor > in a kr2s. The motor was the horizontal opposed two cylinder. Seemed > perfect for conversion but then I looked at a cutaway diagram of > a k100 BMW > motorcycle engine. This engine is a horizontal inline four > cylinder, water > cooled and fuel injected. It also produces about 130 hp. In > this horizontal > config the crank is off to one side and has an internal gearing > to get the > power output shaft in the center of the engine. With the swaping > out of the > crank gear and the addition of an intermediate transfer gear you > would have a > built in psru. The only addition I can see is a thrust bearing > and a prop > hub and it would be ready to go. > > I know i am overlooking a lot of details but I thought this may peak some > interest > > Steve Lemke > Omaha Nebraska > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 20:25:02 -0600 To: KR-Net From: John Bryhan Subject: test msg - disregard Just a test - I haven't got a single email all day long John Bryhan Los Alamos NM mailto:krjeb@qwest.net http://www.users.qwest.net/~bje25/ ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************