From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 27 Jul 2001 14:12:40 -0000 Issue 260 Date: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:13 AM krnet Digest 27 Jul 2001 14:12:40 -0000 Issue 260 Topics (messages 6132 through 6154): Re: Temporary good-bye 6132 by: Robert Stone 6134 by: House of D's Michael sharp KR for sale 6133 by: feral Re: Hard at it!!! 6135 by: Mark Langford Re: N9079B -over weight-? 6136 by: Mark Langford 6143 by: larry flesner 6145 by: Mark Langford Re: seats 6137 by: Mark Langford 6140 by: Philip J. Visconti 6141 by: w.g. kirkland Re: Turtledeck 6138 by: Mark Langford KR-2S Flat Plate Area Equivilent Drag 6139 by: Todd Servaes aileron pushrods 6142 by: nikki 6149 by: Philip J. Visconti RE:weight 6144 by: Mike Wolf 6146 by: Mark Langford 6150 by: Robert Stone 6153 by: Daniel Heath Re: engines, weight & such 6147 by: Mike Wolf 6148 by: Richard Parker Tom Livingston 6151 by: feral Sircam Virus 6152 by: Carson Cassidy 6154 by: Benjamin Knorr Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:49:26 -0500 To: "Frank Ross" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Temporary good-bye Message-ID: <001401c11521$6317e920$ebd8fea9@pavilion> Frank: The last I heard retired majors get a pretty good retirement check so how can you call yourself a "Dependant". You paid your dues. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Ross" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: Re: KR> Temporary good-bye > --- Dave and Tina Goodman > wrote: > > I will deploying for six months with my > > squadron > >.... > > Chase your dreams. > > Respectfully, > > Dave "Zipper" Goodman > > Dave, > Looking forward to your safe return. > Frank Ross, USAF, Retired > (But still a "Dependant Husband") > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:30:20 -0500 To: "Frank Ross" , From: "House of D's" Subject: RE: KR> Temporary good-bye Message-ID: Clear skies and smooth seas... Darryl DuRossette, (SGM, US Army Ret) N21KC KR1@MO1 Lost in the Woods, MO -----Original Message----- From: Frank Ross [mailto:kae_ar@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:42 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Temporary good-bye --- Dave and Tina Goodman wrote: > I will deploying for six months with my > squadron >.... > Chase your dreams. > Respectfully, > Dave "Zipper" Goodman Dave, Looking forward to your safe return. Frank Ross, USAF, Retired (But still a "Dependant Husband") __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:08:49 -0400 To: From: "feral" Subject: Michael sharp KR for sale Message-ID: <001801c1152c$7a7de5a0$861dacd1@farrell> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1150A.F1D1CF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Need location and price before any further interest. Farrell ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1150A.F1D1CF80-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:03:33 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Hard at it!!! Message-ID: <001101c1156e$cacbbc20$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> > i hot wired mine. it took all of an hour. Although most of you know this, don't dare hotwire urethane foam (the stuff the plans call for), as it gives off cyanide gas when burned. If you don't believe me, we can probably get Dr. Dean to elaborate on how painful and immediate your death will be. I know Mark Jones (and I suspect Richard too) used styrofoam for their tails, which explains why they're still here to tell the story. Mark's 5 hour sanding marathon is why the plans recommend urethane. It sands about 10 times quicker.... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:06:24 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> N9079B -over weight-? Message-ID: <001701c1156f$31197670$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> > Thanks for the great up-date. When I spoke with Les > Palmer at the Canton TX fly-in, he mentioned that his > Subaru KR-2 is around 1100 lbs and flys one-place. He > was planning on coming to Pine Bluff this year, may > even bring his plane. Yes, he's famous for trailering his plane to fly-ins, rather than flying it, even though he wouldn't have to fly it very far. I'm sure the 1100 pound empty weight has nothing to do with this, however... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:20:42 -0500 To: "Mark Langford" , From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> N9079B -over weight-? Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010726082042.00863b50@pop3.norton.antivirus> When I spoke with Les >> Palmer at the Canton TX fly-in, he mentioned that his >> Subaru KR-2 is around 1100 lbs and flys one-place. He >> was planning on coming to Pine Bluff this year, may >> even bring his plane. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I'm sure the 1100 >pound empty weight has nothing to do with this, however... >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mark and netters, I don't think Les Palmer is on the net so I'll take the liberty of responding to these post. First of all, I don't think his KR comes in at 1100 lbs. empty. As I recall, he was saying it was 839 lbs empty. That still makes it one of the heavy weights. I must admit he built a very nice looking KR (complete with air conditioning) but limited it to a single place because of the weight. I believe it has flown to at least one Gathering but by another pilot so I'm not sure if trailering it indicates a lack of confidence in the aircraft or a lack of confidence in his piloting abilities, weather considerations, etc. or whatever. I try to learn something from every KR that I see and my impressions from his are: - The KR structure seems to test out under the extra weight even with (I think) the extra wing span. _ My KR will look similar to his as mine is also stretched 24 inches and has 6.00x6 mains although mine is tailwheel. - Although once excited about the Soob engines, I'm not impressed with the performance he gets from his. I don't think the lack of performance is all due to weight as Marty Roberts flies his KR just as heavy on what is supposed to be the same H.P. Marty's is pretty much a "stock" KR with an 0-200. I don't know if the difference lies in the additional drag caused by higher canopy, stretched fuselage, longer wings, enlarged tail surfaces, larger gear and tires, or engine performance. My "gut" says it's the engine and I base that on watching the takeoff and climb of the two aircraft. The Soob seems to accelerate more slowly, has a longer takeoff run and seems to climb out much flatter. Is the engine not putting out the 100 HP claimed or is it a bad engine/prop combination ? I don't know. What I have learned is that my KR (if I ever get it finished) should be a well performing A.C., if flown properly, with it's 0-200, 24 inch stretch, standard tail surfaces, stock wing, larger main gear and tailwheel, raised canopy, and yes, a little extra weight. For anyone building a KR, the Gathering is a must attend event. There is no substitute for the knowledge gained seeing the many KR's , watching them fly, and soaking up the knowledge and wisdom that is present there. I'd best stop my rambling and get my domestic duties (ah, the joys of retirement) finished so I can get out to the garage and work on the KR while the weather is too bad to fly the Tripacer !! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:04:22 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> N9079B -over weight-? Message-ID: <001301c115db$e0009440$5f0ca58c@mlangford> 880 pounds was the last number I heard for Les's plane's weight. And I'm with you on the power too. One thing that might be mentioned is that I believe Marty is running C-85 pistons and at a higher RPM than usual, which Troy thinks gives him around 125 takeoff hp, so that will certainly account for some of Marty's acceleration. Nobody could argue that Les's plane isn't one of the finest looking examples, by far... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:28:03 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> seats Message-ID: <004301c11572$36fb04c0$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> A little clarification must be in order. In a KR2(S), your lower back butts up against the aft spar, and your knees drape over the front spar. I can't imagine how an off-the-shelf seat track could fit down in thhat short little space between the spars and work to slide back and forth, considering it's so short, and your butt is almost (or IS) on the bottom of the fuselage. I suppose it could be done (Don's done it), but consider that the aft spar as the absolute farthest aft position that your bottom's going to go. So it's "easy" to make the pedals or seat adjustable for short folks, but tall guys have problems regardless. It'd be wonderful if you could sit on TOP of the aft spar, but your canopy would have to be 4.5" taller than necessary. I know a lot of KR2 drivers that sit on the bottom of the fuselage... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:25:14 -0400 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> seats Message-ID: <20010725.223348.-182171.0.viscan@juno.com> Rails may be difficult, BUT...when you are 5'4" when you get out of bed in the A.M.... Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:39:52 -0400 To: "Philip J. Visconti" From: "w.g. kirkland" Cc: , Subject: Re: KR> seats Message-ID: <011c01c1158d$1b77e9a0$4bb45bd1@utboopki> Phil; ur looking at the wrong model 150. The one I'm talking about has no seat rails. The seat is a bench seat and the back is adjustable both top and bottom using pins that fit into holes on the side. One pin fixed, the other spring loaded. Although simple it would take me too long to describe. Let me know if you can't find the right 150. Will draw a diagram if I really have to. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip J. Visconti" To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: Re: KR> seats > Bill, > > I asked the A&P at the local airport and he said the seat rails for the > 150 would probably be just right. Now does anyone know specifics about > rails ? Such as length and weight ? Also a supplier that might have some > rails ? > > Phil > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:32:27 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Turtledeck Message-ID: <004f01c11572$d4db2030$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> Ross's turtle deck is the one that's hinged, at http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm , under "Recent Photos" . After all of these posts, I can see why you might confuse me for Ross... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:14:45 -0700 To: KRNET From: Todd Servaes Subject: KR-2S Flat Plate Area Equivilent Drag Message-ID: <3B5F6F05.37D90F67@netzero.net> Hello KR Builders: Has anyone out there determined the Flat Plate Area Equivalent Drag for a KR-2S? This number will vary between individual KR's and specifying details like gear type, cowl entrance and exit treatment, canopy type, gap seals, and any modifications of the plane for which you determined the Flat Plate Area Equivalent Drag will be helpful. Thanks, Todd Servaes NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:12:01 -0700 To: From: "nikki" Subject: aileron pushrods Message-ID: <002201c115a2$455702a0$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C11567.97FC6580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am thinking of using pushrods from stick to bellcrank for my ailerons, = anyone done this? wondering what size and wall thickness. Also thinking = of moving bellcrank outboard to have aileron pushrod in center of = aileron. Does this make sense? ailerons will be kevlar( ive already = heard the downside of kevlar, its been going o.k. so far) is torsional = stiffness even an issue? thanks, jim Sporka ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C11567.97FC6580-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:10:44 -0400 To: synergydesign@sopris.net From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> aileron pushrods Message-ID: <20010726.111543.-180217.0.viscan@juno.com> Jim, I've worked out a push-pull system but it takes a little work if stub wings have already been covered. However, the travel distance to mid-wing might cause problems. My system is similar to the Cassutt. I used 1 1/4 dia. 4130 for main control rod. Then I used 1/2 dia 4130 for push-pull from main control rod to aileron bellcrank. It travels along back of rear spar of center section, similar to KR cable design, but geometry is very different. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:57:08 -0400 To: From: "Mike Wolf" Subject: RE:weight Message-ID: Hello gang, I am building a kr2-s and plan on using an O-200 or other continental 4 banger but this weight thing has me wondering if I should just stay with the VW ? Anyone got an opinion? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:09:11 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> RE:weight Message-ID: <001901c115dc$8c1e9f10$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Mike Wolf wrote: > Hello gang, I am building a kr2-s and plan on using an O-200 or other > continental 4 banger but this weight thing has me wondering if I should just > stay with the VW ? Anyone got an opinion? An opinion? Maybe I can rustle one up. Weight is a terrible thing, but if an extra 80 pounds will get you double the power, and you keep your CG in the right place, it's a trade I'll jump on. Don't forget to check into the Corvair ( http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/ ). It's heavy, but my plane proves that it'll work just fine, CG wise. And at $100 for a rebuildable engine (typically), and a total rebuild cost of about $2500, you simply can't beat the economics (unless we start counting labor hours again). And there's something to be said for the smoothness of six cylinders... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:17:07 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> RE:weight Message-ID: <001e01c115ee$889bdbc0$ebd8fea9@pavilion> Mike: Marty Roberts is using an 0-200 Continental on a standard KR-2, I saw the aircraft at the Canton Texas gathering about two and a half months ago. When Marty arrives at a gathering he always puts on a short demonstration and it was spectacular. He gets 240 MPH (according to him, and I believe it) This in not in a dive but straight and level flight like down the center of the runway 50 feet off the surface. Of course the 0-200 will cost you more but the difference in performance and dependability would make it well worth the extra expense if you can afford it. Bob Stone, Harker Heights,Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Wolf" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:57 AM Subject: KR> RE:weight > Hello gang, I am building a kr2-s and plan on using an O-200 or other > continental 4 banger but this weight thing has me wondering if I should just > stay with the VW ? Anyone got an opinion? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:56:48 -0400 To: "Robert Stone" , "KRNet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> RE:weight Message-ID: <000e01c11682$754dd840$d12c5d0c@scana.com> Mike, Before you try that, I think you should talk to Marty. This plane was not designed for that weight, and my personal opinion is that the 2180 is pushing it. I will use a 2180, but any mod you make to the design, causes you to do other things that you may not want to have to deal with. I know that Dan Deihl told me that when he put the type 4 VW on his plane, he had to compensate for the additional torque that it put out. My advise, is to talk to Marty, and you might give Dan a call also. Dan Heath www.eaa242.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Stone" To: "KRNet" Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: KR> RE:weight > Mike: Marty Roberts is using an 0-200 Continental on a standard KR-2, I saw > the aircraft at the Canton Texas gathering about two and a half months ago. > When Marty arrives at a gathering he always puts on a short demonstration > and it was spectacular. He gets 240 MPH (according to him, and I believe > it) This in not in a dive but straight and level flight like down the > center of the runway 50 feet off the surface. Of course the 0-200 will cost > you more but the difference in performance and dependability would make it > well worth the extra expense if you can afford it. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights,Tx > rlspjs@dashlink.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Wolf" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:57 AM > Subject: KR> RE:weight > > > > Hello gang, I am building a kr2-s and plan on using an O-200 or other > > continental 4 banger but this weight thing has me wondering if I should > just > > stay with the VW ? Anyone got an opinion? > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:37:30 -0400 To: From: "Mike Wolf" Subject: re: engines, weight & such Message-ID: Ok Ok convince me that i could come up with a corvair firewall forward cheaper than a continental and I,ll be game. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:14:26 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR> re: engines, weight & such Message-ID: I paid $208 for a real clean, totally rebuilt corvair engine that only had 28K miles on it. Picture at http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm I still pulled it apart to replace the cam and modify the crank and am glad I did because I found a piston rod bearing that had been installed backwards. Richard Parker >From: "Mike Wolf" >To: >Subject: KR> re: engines, weight & such >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:37:30 -0400 > >Ok Ok convince me that i could come up with a corvair firewall forward >cheaper than a continental and I,ll be game. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:36:35 -0400 To: From: "feral" Subject: Tom Livingston Message-ID: <004101c11612$ab630420$9e1dacd1@farrell> ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C115F1.229CFD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lost info to contact you re. airplane in New York State. Pleaserespond. Farrell ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C115F1.229CFD60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:38:45 -0700 To: "corvaircraft@usm.edu" , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: Carson Cassidy Subject: Sircam Virus Message-ID: <3B60E245.C7F1BFB8@home.com> Hello to all, My apologizes to everyone, but my computer picked up the "sircam" virus 5 days ago. My hope is that it did not forward itself to these lists but if it did you have my sincerest apologizes. I've pretty well had to reconstruct my whole hard drive, losing several relatively important data files. My recently updated "virus protection" program did not catch the virus until I updated it today. My apologizes again Carson Cassidy Calgary, ALberta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:13:28 -0600 To: , From: "Benjamin Knorr" Subject: Re: Sircam Virus Message-Id: 've found a way to fix this on our machines ... a little complicated for some, but not too bad. In windows, it would render any EXE files useless. So, while in windows, = get to a DOS prompt, then when in the c:\windows directory, type "copy = regedit.exe regedit.com" . This will enable you to run regedit. Run = regedit by typing "regedit.com" , and do a search in the registry for = sirc32.exe . Delete any entry where it appears. After that, get new = antivirus software and DON'T RUN ANY FILE THAT YOU KNEW WAS INFECTED! Anyway, it keeps you from having to rebuild everything. -ben not-building-a-plane-yet-this-year >>> Carson Cassidy 07/26/01 20:44 PM >>> Hello to all, My apologizes to everyone, but my computer picked up the "sircam" virus 5 days ago. My hope is that it did not forward itself to these lists but if it did you have my sincerest apologizes. I've pretty well had to reconstruct my whole hard drive, losing several relatively important data files. My recently updated "virus protection" program did not catch the virus until I updated it today. My apologizes again Carson Cassidy Calgary, ALberta --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************