From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 13 Aug 2001 17:50:25 -0000 Issue 268 Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:50 AM krnet Digest 13 Aug 2001 17:50:25 -0000 Issue 268 Topics (messages 6312 through 6331): BALANCE 6312 by: Philip J. Visconti 6313 by: David Mullins 6315 by: Mark Langford Re: Web Page 6314 by: David Mullins C90 Brakes 6316 by: Shane Daly 6317 by: Edwin Blocher Re: Turtledeck 6318 by: Ross R. Youngblood 6326 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 6328 by: Donald Reid 6330 by: Mark Langford atlanta KR's? 6319 by: CWErnst010.cs.com Website update 6320 by: Donald Reid trim control 6321 by: Tim Brown 6322 by: Jerry Mahurin Re: Flight over Germany 6323 by: Ron Eason Panel clearence and more? 6324 by: POND CARTER 6329 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: Archives Link Fixed 6325 by: John Bouyea FLYERS BEWARE 6327 by: Schmidt, Curtis scissors 6331 by: larry flesner Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:18:09 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Philip J. Visconti" Subject: BALANCE Message-ID: <20010812.001810.-444103.0.viscan@juno.com> Dave Mullins came down last week and mentioned enlarging the horiz. stab.But I think he was talking about balancing elev. internal similar to Mark's. Has anyone extended their horiz. stab. and balanced elevator with weight at outer tips of elevator ? Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:04:54 -0400 From: David Mullins CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> BALANCE Message-ID: <3B760E75.E4B31392@mediaone.net> Phil, Yes some builders have enlarged their HS and added horns onto the elevator to put the balance weights. My HS was only widened 1" to get to an even 5 feet. I intend to balance my elevator with an internal bracket off of the control horn inside the fuselage Dave Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire http://n323xl.iwarp.com "Philip J. Visconti" wrote: > Dave Mullins came down last week and mentioned enlarging the horiz. > stab.But I think he was talking about balancing elev. internal similar to > Mark's. Has anyone extended their horiz. stab. and balanced elevator with > weight at outer tips of elevator ? > > Phil > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:52:34 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> BALANCE Message-ID: <003101c12336$09df7490$a600a8c0@athlon600> > Dave Mullins came down last week and mentioned enlarging the horiz. > stab.But I think he was talking about balancing elev. internal similar to > Mark's. Has anyone extended their horiz. stab. and balanced elevator with > weight at outer tips of elevator ? Yep, people have been balancing the elevator for years at the tips, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Neil Bingham did it on his KR, the one that Randy Smith's been flying (I think), shown at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k942.jpg . Marty Robert's is that way too. I did the internal balance thing because my gut feel was that the aerodynamic balances would make it more pitch sensitive. Richard Mole came along and did an enormous amount of research and PROVED that aerodynamic balances (weights at the tips, but wider/larger) would make a significant improvement in the pitch sensitivity by effectively "moving" the CG (not really, but the same effect as far as the pilot can tell) forward something like 1.3 inches. I'd have been singing the praises of this thing for years, but we're waiting for Dana's plane (which has it) to fly, so we can demonstrate it conclusively, rather than just say we THINK it'll work. I got tired of being assailed over the new airfoil (whether or not it would really be an improvement), and we figured we'd just let this thing speak for itself. Bottom line is that if I had it to do again, I'd balance my elevator at the tips. I may still do it, but would like to prove that what I did works too... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:11:31 -0400 To: krnet From: David Mullins Subject: Re: Web Page Message-ID: <3B761003.2EB4C2B7@mediaone.net> Rich, You reply to address is wrong, so I will answer your question here: I originally made it an animated gif. Problem was, that it was 272K, a very long download to see it. Now it is a transparent gif of 12K. This was put on a timeline in a layer with Dreamweaver 3.0. You place the image where you want it to start, as a key frame. Go to the last frame in the timeline and move the image where you want it to end up. Dreamweaver generates the code that the browser uses and moves the image across the screen in increments that match the number of frames you specified. If you want a refresh rate of 15 frames a second and want the image to take two seconds to cross the screen, you end up with 30 frames with a key frame at each end. Dave Richard McCall wrote: > How did you get the kR to move across your web page? > > Rich ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:43:52 -0700 To: "KR list" From: "Shane Daly" Subject: C90 Brakes Message-ID: <001301c1235e$bc262900$861b4f18@cg.shawcable.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C12324.0F8D5540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, There is someone out there selling disk brakes for the Azuza wheels. I = used to have a link to their site, but my computer crashed last Thursday = and I have lost all my Favourites list and old mail. Does anyone know = who I am talking about? and could you post the web addy? Thanks, Shane Daly Calgary, Alberta,Canada. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C12324.0F8D5540-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:49:44 -0500 To: "Shane Daly" , "KR list" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> C90 Brakes Message-ID: <002701c12357$2d128580$b38c31cc@cyou.com> Tracy O'Brien Tracy@localaccess.com He also has some beautiful spun aluminun wheels which I have. Them and the C-90 brakes are going on a Grove aluminun spring gear someday. My 2S is still in storage and it looks now like it may be early Dec before our house is done. I'm working on the center section bent up spars on the front porch of my rental house when weather and construction don't keep me from it. Cheer, Ed Ed Blocher Crestview, FL Blocher@cyou.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Daly To: KR list Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 1:43 PM Subject: KR> C90 Brakes Hi All, There is someone out there selling disk brakes for the Azuza wheels. I used to have a link to their site, but my computer crashed last Thursday and I have lost all my Favourites list and old mail. Does anyone know who I am talking about? and could you post the web addy? Thanks, Shane Daly Calgary, Alberta,Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:51:26 -0700 From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: "Philip J. Visconti" , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Turtledeck Message-ID: <3B76DE3E.4E63C802@home.com> Hmm, could me mine http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm Click the "recent photos" link for a shot of the aft deck in the open position. I was told by two Technical counselors to add additional cross members to the fuselage if you make your aft deck removable. -- Ross "Philip J. Visconti" wrote: > Someone showed a hinged turtledeck in their web site. I've been trying to > find it and have not been successful. Can someone please give me the web > site address ? > > Phil > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:24:34 -0500 To: From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Cc: "Philip J. Visconti" , Subject: RE: KR> Turtledeck Message-ID: Turtledeck Cross Members The aft fuselage section needs plywood gussets over the structural members. I'm surprised that builders put so much effort into those useless gusset filler blocks in a plywood skinned structure; they're not needed. But, the unskinned area of the aft fuelage would be much stronger with a 3 inch tringular gusset over the joint. Does anyone know the tensile strength of spuce PERPENDICULAR to the grain? Ron Freiberger... EAA Tech Counselor #4125 mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Ross R. Youngblood [mailto:rossy65@home.com] Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 2:51 PM Cc: Philip J. Visconti; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Turtledeck Hmm, could me mine http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm Click the "recent photos" link for a shot of the aft deck in the open position. I was told by two Technical counselors to add additional cross members to the fuselage if you make your aft deck removable. -- Ross "Philip J. Visconti" wrote: > Someone showed a hinged turtledeck in their web site. I've been trying to > find it and have not been successful. Can someone please give me the web > site address ? > > Phil > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:18:49 -0400 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: RE: KR> Turtledeck Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813111525.00a0c020@pop.erols.com> --=====================_761402==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:24 AM 8/13/2001 -0500, RONALD.FREIBERGER wrote: > Does anyone know the tensile strength of >spuce PERPENDICULAR to the grain? From ANC-18, Spruce has the following tensile strength: Parallel to grain - 9400 psi Perpendicular to grain - 170 psi Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_761402==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:38:55 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Turtledeck Message-ID: <002801c1240e$1083f4f0$5f0ca58c@mlangford> > The aft fuselage section needs plywood gussets over the structural members. > I'm surprised that builders put so much effort into those useless gusset > filler blocks in a plywood skinned structure; they're not needed. But, the > unskinned area of the aft fuelage would be much stronger with a 3 inch > tringular gusset over the joint. Does anyone know the tensile strength of > spuce PERPENDICULAR to the grain? There's a chart that compares properties of spruce and douglas fir at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/spruce.jpg , on my "miscellaneous" page. I used to think that the spruce gussets weren't necessary too, since the plywood skin functions as a gusset. But I realized later that the reason they're there is to get increased gluing area. As you know, the strength of a perpendicular glue joint is pretty low, so those gussets give you three times as much joint strength in tension, and it's along the centerline, rather than on one edge of the joint. When you take that into consideration, they make a lot more sense. I personally don't think that any crossmembers need to be added between the sides (across the top) if the aft deck is removable. After all, how much strength did the original plans-built turtle deck provide, with it's one layer of glass formed over a semicircle of thin foam? I think the RR "factory" KR2 turtle deck was two layers of 9 oz cloth, from what I could tell, with no foam core at all. Not much strength there, nor apparently needed. Engineering by "proven past experience" is one sure way to success... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:29:17 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: CWErnst010@cs.com Subject: atlanta KR's? Message-ID: I'm considering building a KR and would like to interact with any builders in the Atlanta area. Anybody willing to help? Thanks, Steve cwernst010@cs.com 678-464-2651 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:01:56 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Website update Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010812190032.00a051e0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_4767051==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I was asked to provide details on my canopy latch by one of our net members. Several photos and descriptions are now on line at http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_4767051==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:40:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: trim control Message-ID: <20010813024023.64630.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone have a photo of their nyrod connection to horn? Specifically, where the attachment is made at the rear of the fuselage to the control horn, then cables to cockpit. Thanks much. Reply to timwbrown@yahoo.com unless you want to share with all. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:04:33 -0400 To: Tim Brown ,Group KR NET From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> trim control Message-ID: Tim, Go to http://jerrymahurin.com and scroll down a little and you will see the nyrod routing thru the rear of the fuselage. I'll make some more pictures next week end and put them up on the web..... Sorry but that is all I have right now..... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Tim Brown wrote: > Does anyone have a photo of their nyrod > connection to horn? Specifically, where the > attachment is made at the rear of the fuselage to > the control horn, then cables to cockpit. > > Thanks much. Reply to timwbrown@yahoo.com > unless you want to share with all. > > Tim > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! > Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or > "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some > other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:04:29 -0700 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Fw: Flight over Germany Message-ID: <004701c123bd$d18770b0$6e151a41@Administration> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Eason" To: Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: Flight over Germany > > > >You will get a little laugh out of this one. > > > > > German controllers at Frankfurt Airport tend > > > > to be a short-tempered lot. They not only expect > > > > pilots to know their parking location but how to get > > > > there without any assistance. So it was with some > > > > amusement that we (Pan Am 747) listened to the > > > > following exchange between Frankfurt ground and a > > > > British Airways 747 (radio call Speedbird 206) after > > > > landing. > > > > > > > > Speedbird 206: "Good morning Frankfurt. Speedbird > > > > 206 clear to active." > > > > > > > > Ground: "Good Morning. Taxi to your gate." > > > > > > > > The British Airways 747 pulls onto the main taxiway > > > > and stops. > > > > > > > > Ground: "Speedbird, do you know where you are > > > > going?" > > > > > > > > Speedbird 206: "Stand by, ground. I'm looking up the > > > > gate location now." > > > > > > > > Ground (impatiently): "Speedbird 206, have you never > > > > flown to Frankfurt before?" > > > > > > > > Speedbird 206 (coolly), "Yes, in 1944. But I didn't > > > > stop." > > > > > > > Jim Eason > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:24:44 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Panel clearence and more? Message-ID: <3B7780BC.562113CD@home.com> Hi Netters and Builders From the pilots view point what is the ideal or minimum vertical distance from the horizon (pilots eye level) and the top of the panel? Once for the fiberglass guys...... What is the best length scissors to purchase and what grade (how expensive is needed)? I just finished my cowling for the Taylor Mono Plane with my wife's kitchen scissors (she doesn't know yet) and well even i can tell there has to be a better pair out there. I'm thinking of using an "Obusforme High Back Rest" support insert for the seat. They are designed for comfort, affordable $75, no sewing required and fit almost every one plus there very light. I will need to build a composite or aluminum cradle for the insert to fasten to. How thick (number of glass layers) should the cradle be for good crash survivablity? I built a full scale mock up of the fuselage cabin area to check the fit out. Well worth the two hours to slap somthing togather and sit in. Thats all for now. Thanks guys. Happy Building and flying Darren and Carter Building our dream machine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:16:51 -0400 To: carterkr2s1@home.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Panel clearence and more? Message-ID: <20010813.111824.-16195.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Wiss, from Wicks. Virg On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:24:44 -0700 POND CARTER writes: > Hi Netters and Builders > > From the pilots view point what is the ideal or minimum vertical > distance from the horizon (pilots eye level) and the top of the > panel? > > > Once for the fiberglass guys...... What is the best length scissors > to > purchase and what grade (how expensive is needed)? I just finished > my > cowling for the Taylor Mono Plane with my wife's kitchen scissors > (she > doesn't know yet) and well even i can tell there has to be a better > pair > out there. > > I'm thinking of using an "Obusforme High Back Rest" support insert > for > the seat. They are designed for comfort, affordable $75, no sewing > required and fit almost every one plus there very light. I will need > to > build a composite or aluminum cradle for the insert to fasten to. > How > thick (number of glass layers) should the cradle be for good crash > survivablity? > > > I built a full scale mock up of the fuselage cabin area to check the > fit > out. Well worth the two hours to slap somthing togather and sit in. > Thats all for now. Thanks guys. > > Happy Building and flying > Darren and Carter > Building our dream machine > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:27:18 -0700 To: From: "John Bouyea" Subject: FYI: Archives Link Fixed Message-ID: <001801c123b8$9ea877c0$0b00a8c0@bouyea.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1237D.F21A0440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I sent a message to our intrepid "webmaster." We needed to switch the = link on http://www.krnet.org to point to my archives server = http://www.bouyea.net/krnet It seems to work just fine. Thanks Ross! I have just uploaded the latest digest email messages. You can get to = the Email digests from my home page. Good night! John Bouyea KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net/krnet john@bouyea.net ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1237D.F21A0440-- ------------------------------ Date: 13 Aug 2001 10:06:00 -0700 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: FLYERS BEWARE Message-ID: <000C37CD@kaydon.com> Hey guys, just dropping a note for those of you that smoke, eat eggs and ni= ce juicy red meat BE CAREFUL!!!! I enjoyed all three and on July 10 at the = rightful old age of 36 I had a heart attack! On August 5 I had another!! Ne= edless to say it put an abrupt stop to my flying. Take it from a guy whose = been there, give up the smokes and cut back a little on the cholesterol, th= ere not worth giving up flying for not to mention a few other things! Besid= es that they shave your thingy when they go to unplug those arteries! (Oh w= ell she was cute!!!!) Curtis Schmidt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:51:08 -0500 To: From: larry flesner Subject: scissors Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010813125108.008546c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Once for the fiberglass guys...... What is the best length scissors to >purchase and what grade (how expensive is needed)? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I completed my entire project with the cheap scissors from an office supply store, 3 for $6.00 kind. When they got dull or covered with resin that I couldn't scrape off I just pitched them. I probably went through a dozen or so. I too used my wife's good kitchen scissor ONCE !! It didn't take her long to catch me on that one. I have only one more item to glass ( porthole windows) and I've already started the "fill and sand" routine !!!!!!! Is that light at the end of the tunnel or a train??????? P.S. There is nothing like a BOSCH 3107DVS, 5 inch, variable speed, random orbital, hook and loop pad sander with 100 grit pads to take the work out of sanding !!! Just bought one and it is GREAT ! $97 at a local tool supply store. The pads are $15 for a box of 50, about half of what I was paying at the local S***S store. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************