From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 17 Aug 2001 02:41:11 -0000 Issue 270 Date: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:41 PM krnet Digest 17 Aug 2001 02:41:11 -0000 Issue 270 Topics (messages 6357 through 6377): Primer for rolling and tipping? 6357 by: POND CARTER 6360 by: Peter Johnson 6365 by: Peter Johnson 6370 by: POND CARTER 6372 by: Daniel Heath 6377 by: ROBERT COOPER Composite Gear Leg Weight 6358 by: Peter Johnson 6368 by: KMcKen1.aol.com Re: Pitch and HP 6359 by: JEAN VERON 6362 by: Robert Stone please remove me 6361 by: DONAN5.aol.com Further to the Composite Gear Legs 6363 by: Peter Johnson 6364 by: Stéfan Balatchev Fwd: 6366 by: flykr2s.execpc.com Re: REMOVE. 6367 by: David Subaru Engine 6369 by: DClarke351.aol.com Adhesives 6371 by: Eduardo Iglesias 6374 by: Jan Laan 6376 by: Mark Langford KRNet FAQ 6373 by: Mark Langford Micro slurry 6375 by: POND CARTER Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:37:12 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: <3B7B5C08.D67825C4@home.com> Hi KR netters Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada? I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer and finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too. Thanks Carter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:14:30 -0700 To: "POND CARTER" , "kr" From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: <001d01c1261a$b94cae20$2509eccf@peter> Hi Carter. Since I was the first to bring up the 'rolling and tipping' method for painting, (I know, I know, I owe everyone the final installment..!), I'll tell you what I use for my painting. The base primer that I have used alot over the last number of years is 'Brolite Z-Spar, #105 Undercoat'. It is a marine primer and so will be available at any marine outlet. Let me know if you need address' for some good marine chandleries. The 105 Undercoat is a good product in that it is one part, can be used straight out of the can for 'high build' needs, or thinned some for greater coverage. It is flexible to a degree, ie, it will not crack off if a surface like the 3/32" ply sides flex a little, and it sands WONDERFULLY! Its versatility is why I've stayed with it, and the fact that I've never found another undercoat/primer that sands as well. It is available in Canada. As for paint products, I'm always kinda leary of telling people what I have used because there tends to be a 'complex and expensive has got to be better' mindset out there with some people. I have used complex and expensive (a FOUR part polyeurathane that was a complete waist of time and money!), and I've used common two part 'epoxy' paints. Taking all things into account, I've never found a need for these fancy materials (though I must say that 'Alumagrip' is great stuff!). I've always just used good, one part, exterior, oil based enamel. Sorry if I've let you down...! As for the enamels that I've used, the cheap International 'Interlux' is a pain to get a good finish with but lasts well. Benjamin Moore 'Impervo' is good to use, easy to get good coverage and finish with, and lasts all but about 3 years or so less that the 12 or so expected from the International product. International Paints now has a good one part enamel out that has teflon in it, not really necessary for our use as we're not walking on our planes, nor rubbing them up against docks and other boats. They also have a one part polyuerathane that is nice to work with but difficult to repair. One of the problems with some of the colour 'thanes is that the pigment is topical. A bit of a scratch can sometimes leave a white line showing that you can't get rid of at all. For consideration, think of how many homebuilders you know who have painted their airplane, flown it, and spent the next great amount of time just enjoying flying their plane. Most people I know have always managed to find something to tinker on after the plane is 'finished'. To this end, again, the cheap, easy, one part enamels are good because they are very easy to 'blend in' after a repair or modification is required. I know it's not fancy, and again I say that I am always leary of telling people what I use, but the above works for me. I've been designing and building wooden boats, mostly sail, for 35 years now (GAGH!!!), and I've turned out two 'show boats', all using the same products and process'. As for clear finishes, I HATE the 'thanes! Never had I had ANY of the 'thanes work for me! Varnish, good old spar varnish, lasts longer, stands up to more, is easier to maintain and repair, and is cheaper too boot! I like Behr Spar Varnish. I've got it on my boat and after ten years it still shines after a washing. If you'd like to chat more about this Carter, please drop me a line. And I know, I know.. I owe everyone a description of 'rolling and tipping'. I've found just from the work that I've done this summer that 'rolling and tipping' is something I know how to do, but I have to learn how to explain it. Painting, as anyone who has done any amount will tell you, is a very personal thing, everyone has their own process and belief system! LOL!!!!! mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "POND CARTER" To: "kr" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:37 PM Subject: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > Hi KR netters > Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada? > I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer and > finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too. > Thanks > Carter > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:24:16 -0700 To: "POND CARTER" , , "Ned Thomas" From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Fw: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: <032801c12680$c62d2000$1ca5e2d1@peter> Further to undercoaters and top paints for rolling and tipping, here's some info on the 'tools' I use. To apply undercoater/primer and paint, I use a yellow, open cell, foam roller that is 1/8" thick. You can find black rollers, but I've found the foam to be too soft. Of the yellow foam rollers, I used to be able to find them with cardboard cores and they were cheap. The last couple of years I've only been able to find them with composite cores. I don't bother reusing the rollers so the cardboard cored ones are a better deal. If anyone has a source for the cardboard core rollers, please let me know, thanks. If I'm working a large area I use the 12" rollers. For something like a KR, I would probably cut the rollers down to 6" or so. A paint tray is of course required, and everything should be clean, in place, stable, and accessible. For tipping out the paint, I've used both long, soft, natural bristle brushes, and plain old foam brushes. When working on a vertical surface you can't put too much paint on and still tip it out without getting runs in the finish so on vertical surfaces i use the foam brushes. On flat surfaces you can almost pour the paint the paint on and a soft, long bristle brush is all that's needed to 'even' the paint around. It is important to keep whatever brush you use as dry as possible during use. I use a liter size yogurt container with a heavy nail pressed across the top. With regular frequency I'll 'scrape' the excess paint/varnish/epoxy off both sides of the brush against the nail. When I'm working a large area I've always got a couple of extra brushes clean and ready to go should I drop one, or if the one I'm using begins to disintegrate or loose bristles, or the handle becomes coated in paint. There are always a couple of extra rollers on handles cleaned and ready to go too. I use a heavy TV style table I have that is mounted on wheels to place everything on. As we progress down the length of the work, we just keep pushing the cart along with our knees, great time saver. You CANNOT leave the wet edge of the paint/varnish/epoxy for more than a moment if you want to obtain an even finish. Don't plan on sauntering around your shop doing things while you are painting, it'll show! I strongly suggest locking the bloody door!!! If you are right handed, begin painting in from right-to left direction. The person rolling is JUST ahead of you in their application, if fact, you should almost be bumping shoulders. Don't bother about overlapping each others work, there will be lots of overlapping, it's only to be expected. With some practise the 'roller' will quickly come to know how much of an area a roller full of paint can be applied. The idea is to apply as much as possible without causing runs, and to SPREAD THE PAINT AS EVENLY AS POSSIBLE. The 'tippers' job is to pull out any uneveness, remove the 'orange peel' affect left by the roller, and to ensure an even overlap of applications, and to inspect, inspect, inspect. If you're right handed, you will 'tip' from left to right, diminishing in the force of the brush against the work as you begin to tip back into the previous application. To assist the finish work you will need good lighting arranged around the plane so you can see all surfaces without shadows. Lean into the work so as to reflect the light off the surface, this is the definitive means of knowing what your final surface will look like. DO NOT DELAY!!! Paint flashes off it's most volatile solvents quite quickly when applied, you do not want this flashing off to occur before you're finished tipping it helps to keep the shop cool. Make a couple of dry runs along the work before you open a can, know where everything you're going to need is before you need it, talk with your partner about what you're going to be looking for, how you'll be applying the paint, about how close you'll be working together, and about cross checking each others work. This is the process that we follow when finishing large boats so it may sound like overkill for our little airplanes, it isn't. The areas to be covered on a KR are smaller, the time to roll and tip will be short, and the amount of paint used will be less, but all the process is the same! If you're of the mind, try undercoating then painting a pc of 1/8" arborite nailed to your shop wall as practise. To more closely match a KR, cut the sheet into 2' x 8' and nail them edge to edge, better practise yet. And, if you want to do yourself a real favour, setup your fuse on a roller assembly that will allow you to always work on a horizontal surface. Tape the edges/corners off and do a surface a day. (As another aside, if you can paint a surface from beneath, it provides an amazing surface finish! The paint 'floats' up and the 'bottom' of the paint, the surface that you see, 'floats' to a very fine finish.) When you're finished painting YOU ARE FINISHED PAINTING!!! DO NOT go back and 'touch up' little areas! Until the paint is entirely dry, if you touch it, it'll drag. A big ugly wrinkle or 'wave' will remain. If you get a fly in your work, DO NOT dig it out! The end result will look like you dug something out of the paint, there'll be a big hole in the surface! Leave the poor insect in place, and when all is said and dry, use your finger nail to gently scrape the high points of the but away. An even, flat paint surface will remain, and if anyone spots the remnants of the bug, ask them who their optometrist is! This is all a brief description of the rolling and tipping method of painting. If anyone would like to discuss it further, please email me, or call me even if you like at 807-468-4764. I'm in Kenora, Ontario, Canada. mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Johnson" To: "POND CARTER" ; "kr" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:14 PM Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > Hi Carter. Since I was the first to bring up the 'rolling and tipping' > method for painting, (I know, I know, I owe everyone the final > installment..!), I'll tell you what I use for my painting. > > The base primer that I have used alot over the last number of years is > 'Brolite Z-Spar, #105 Undercoat'. It is a marine primer and so will be > available at any marine outlet. Let me know if you need address' for some > good marine chandleries. > > The 105 Undercoat is a good product in that it is one part, can be used > straight out of the can for 'high build' needs, or thinned some for greater > coverage. It is flexible to a degree, ie, it will not crack off if a > surface like the 3/32" ply sides flex a little, and it sands WONDERFULLY! > Its versatility is why I've stayed with it, and the fact that I've never > found another undercoat/primer that sands as well. It is available in > Canada. > > As for paint products, I'm always kinda leary of telling people what I have > used because there tends to be a 'complex and expensive has got to be > better' mindset out there with some people. I have used complex and > expensive (a FOUR part polyeurathane that was a complete waist of time and > money!), and I've used common two part 'epoxy' paints. Taking all things > into account, I've never found a need for these fancy materials (though I > must say that 'Alumagrip' is great stuff!). I've always just used good, one > part, exterior, oil based enamel. Sorry if I've let you down...! > > As for the enamels that I've used, the cheap International 'Interlux' is a > pain to get a good finish with but lasts well. Benjamin Moore 'Impervo' is > good to use, easy to get good coverage and finish with, and lasts all but > about 3 years or so less that the 12 or so expected from the International > product. International Paints now has a good one part enamel out that has > teflon in it, not really necessary for our use as we're not walking on our > planes, nor rubbing them up against docks and other boats. They also have a > one part polyuerathane that is nice to work with but difficult to repair. > One of the problems with some of the colour 'thanes is that the pigment is > topical. A bit of a scratch can sometimes leave a white line showing that > you can't get rid of at all. > > For consideration, think of how many homebuilders you know who have painted > their airplane, flown it, and spent the next great amount of time just > enjoying flying their plane. Most people I know have always managed to find > something to tinker on after the plane is 'finished'. To this end, again, > the cheap, easy, one part enamels are good because they are very easy to > 'blend in' after a repair or modification is required. > > I know it's not fancy, and again I say that I am always leary of telling > people what I use, but the above works for me. I've been designing and > building wooden boats, mostly sail, for 35 years now (GAGH!!!), and I've > turned out two 'show boats', all using the same products and process'. As > for clear finishes, I HATE the 'thanes! Never had I had ANY of the 'thanes > work for me! Varnish, good old spar varnish, lasts longer, stands up to > more, is easier to maintain and repair, and is cheaper too boot! I like > Behr Spar Varnish. I've got it on my boat and after ten years it still > shines after a washing. > > If you'd like to chat more about this Carter, please drop me a line. And I > know, I know.. I owe everyone a description of 'rolling and tipping'. I've > found just from the work that I've done this summer that 'rolling and > tipping' is something I know how to do, but I have to learn how to explain > it. Painting, as anyone who has done any amount will tell you, is a very > personal thing, everyone has their own process and belief system! LOL!!!!! > mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "POND CARTER" > To: "kr" > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:37 PM > Subject: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > > > > Hi KR netters > > Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada? > > I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer and > > finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too. > > Thanks > > Carter > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:12:20 -0700 To: Peter Johnson , kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: <3B7C6F74.6C070B24@home.com> Hi Peter Thanks for the great response! I'm looking forward to hearing a description of 'rolling and tipping'. What do you use the spar varnish for? Clear coat? Does Primer need to be rolled and tipped or just roll it on and start sanding after it drys. Many thanks Carter Peter Johnson wrote: > > Hi Carter. Since I was the first to bring up the 'rolling and tipping' > method for painting, (I know, I know, I owe everyone the final > installment..!), I'll tell you what I use for my painting. > > The base primer that I have used alot over the last number of years is > 'Brolite Z-Spar, #105 Undercoat'. It is a marine primer and so will be > available at any marine outlet. Let me know if you need address' for some > good marine chandleries. > > The 105 Undercoat is a good product in that it is one part, can be used > straight out of the can for 'high build' needs, or thinned some for greater > coverage. It is flexible to a degree, ie, it will not crack off if a > surface like the 3/32" ply sides flex a little, and it sands WONDERFULLY! > Its versatility is why I've stayed with it, and the fact that I've never > found another undercoat/primer that sands as well. It is available in > Canada. > > As for paint products, I'm always kinda leary of telling people what I have > used because there tends to be a 'complex and expensive has got to be > better' mindset out there with some people. I have used complex and > expensive (a FOUR part polyeurathane that was a complete waist of time and > money!), and I've used common two part 'epoxy' paints. Taking all things > into account, I've never found a need for these fancy materials (though I > must say that 'Alumagrip' is great stuff!). I've always just used good, one > part, exterior, oil based enamel. Sorry if I've let you down...! > > As for the enamels that I've used, the cheap International 'Interlux' is a > pain to get a good finish with but lasts well. Benjamin Moore 'Impervo' is > good to use, easy to get good coverage and finish with, and lasts all but > about 3 years or so less that the 12 or so expected from the International > product. International Paints now has a good one part enamel out that has > teflon in it, not really necessary for our use as we're not walking on our > planes, nor rubbing them up against docks and other boats. They also have a > one part polyuerathane that is nice to work with but difficult to repair. > One of the problems with some of the colour 'thanes is that the pigment is > topical. A bit of a scratch can sometimes leave a white line showing that > you can't get rid of at all. > > For consideration, think of how many homebuilders you know who have painted > their airplane, flown it, and spent the next great amount of time just > enjoying flying their plane. Most people I know have always managed to find > something to tinker on after the plane is 'finished'. To this end, again, > the cheap, easy, one part enamels are good because they are very easy to > 'blend in' after a repair or modification is required. > > I know it's not fancy, and again I say that I am always leary of telling > people what I use, but the above works for me. I've been designing and > building wooden boats, mostly sail, for 35 years now (GAGH!!!), and I've > turned out two 'show boats', all using the same products and process'. As > for clear finishes, I HATE the 'thanes! Never had I had ANY of the 'thanes > work for me! Varnish, good old spar varnish, lasts longer, stands up to > more, is easier to maintain and repair, and is cheaper too boot! I like > Behr Spar Varnish. I've got it on my boat and after ten years it still > shines after a washing. > > If you'd like to chat more about this Carter, please drop me a line. And I > know, I know.. I owe everyone a description of 'rolling and tipping'. I've > found just from the work that I've done this summer that 'rolling and > tipping' is something I know how to do, but I have to learn how to explain > it. Painting, as anyone who has done any amount will tell you, is a very > personal thing, everyone has their own process and belief system! LOL!!!!! > mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "POND CARTER" > To: "kr" > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:37 PM > Subject: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > > > Hi KR netters > > Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada? > > I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer and > > finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too. > > Thanks > > Carter > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:07:18 -0400 To: "POND CARTER" , "Peter Johnson" , "kr" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: <000e01c126b8$f70655b0$b42d5d0c@scana.com> Use spar varnish for varnishing spars. .... Just kidding... Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "POND CARTER" To: "Peter Johnson" ; "kr" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > Hi Peter > > Thanks for the great response! I'm looking forward to hearing > a description of 'rolling and tipping'. > What do you use the spar varnish for? Clear coat? > Does Primer need to be rolled and tipped or just roll it on and start > sanding after it drys. > Many thanks Carter > > Peter Johnson wrote: > > > > Hi Carter. Since I was the first to bring up the 'rolling and tipping' > > method for painting, (I know, I know, I owe everyone the final > > installment..!), I'll tell you what I use for my painting. > > > > The base primer that I have used alot over the last number of years is > > 'Brolite Z-Spar, #105 Undercoat'. It is a marine primer and so will be > > available at any marine outlet. Let me know if you need address' for some > > good marine chandleries. > > > > The 105 Undercoat is a good product in that it is one part, can be used > > straight out of the can for 'high build' needs, or thinned some for greater > > coverage. It is flexible to a degree, ie, it will not crack off if a > > surface like the 3/32" ply sides flex a little, and it sands WONDERFULLY! > > Its versatility is why I've stayed with it, and the fact that I've never > > found another undercoat/primer that sands as well. It is available in > > Canada. > > > > As for paint products, I'm always kinda leary of telling people what I have > > used because there tends to be a 'complex and expensive has got to be > > better' mindset out there with some people. I have used complex and > > expensive (a FOUR part polyeurathane that was a complete waist of time and > > money!), and I've used common two part 'epoxy' paints. Taking all things > > into account, I've never found a need for these fancy materials (though I > > must say that 'Alumagrip' is great stuff!). I've always just used good, one > > part, exterior, oil based enamel. Sorry if I've let you down...! > > > > As for the enamels that I've used, the cheap International 'Interlux' is a > > pain to get a good finish with but lasts well. Benjamin Moore 'Impervo' is > > good to use, easy to get good coverage and finish with, and lasts all but > > about 3 years or so less that the 12 or so expected from the International > > product. International Paints now has a good one part enamel out that has > > teflon in it, not really necessary for our use as we're not walking on our > > planes, nor rubbing them up against docks and other boats. They also have a > > one part polyuerathane that is nice to work with but difficult to repair. > > One of the problems with some of the colour 'thanes is that the pigment is > > topical. A bit of a scratch can sometimes leave a white line showing that > > you can't get rid of at all. > > > > For consideration, think of how many homebuilders you know who have painted > > their airplane, flown it, and spent the next great amount of time just > > enjoying flying their plane. Most people I know have always managed to find > > something to tinker on after the plane is 'finished'. To this end, again, > > the cheap, easy, one part enamels are good because they are very easy to > > 'blend in' after a repair or modification is required. > > > > I know it's not fancy, and again I say that I am always leary of telling > > people what I use, but the above works for me. I've been designing and > > building wooden boats, mostly sail, for 35 years now (GAGH!!!), and I've > > turned out two 'show boats', all using the same products and process'. As > > for clear finishes, I HATE the 'thanes! Never had I had ANY of the 'thanes > > work for me! Varnish, good old spar varnish, lasts longer, stands up to > > more, is easier to maintain and repair, and is cheaper too boot! I like > > Behr Spar Varnish. I've got it on my boat and after ten years it still > > shines after a washing. > > > > If you'd like to chat more about this Carter, please drop me a line. And I > > know, I know.. I owe everyone a description of 'rolling and tipping'. I've > > found just from the work that I've done this summer that 'rolling and > > tipping' is something I know how to do, but I have to learn how to explain > > it. Painting, as anyone who has done any amount will tell you, is a very > > personal thing, everyone has their own process and belief system! LOL!!!!! > > mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "POND CARTER" > > To: "kr" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:37 PM > > Subject: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > > > > > Hi KR netters > > > Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada? > > > I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer and > > > finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too. > > > Thanks > > > Carter > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:35:49 -0700 To: "Peter Johnson" , "POND CARTER" , "krnet" , "Ned Thomas" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C126A3.CC748E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Thanks for the description of your rolling and tipping methods. This woul= d make a good forum at the up and coming KR gathering. I'm sure a demonst= ration is worth more than a thousand words. =20 Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:31 AM To: POND CARTER; krnet@mailinglists.org; Ned Thomas Subject: Fw: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? Further to undercoaters and top paints for rolling and tipping, here's so= me info on the 'tools' I use. To apply undercoater/primer and paint, I use a yellow, open cell, foam roller that is 1/8" thick. You can find black rollers, but I've found th= e foam to be too soft. Of the yellow foam rollers, I used to be able to fi= nd them with cardboard cores and they were cheap. The last couple of years I've only been able to find them with composite cores. I don't bother reusing the rollers so the cardboard cored ones are a better deal. If anyone has a source for the cardboard core rollers, please let me know, thanks. If I'm working a large area I use the 12" rollers. For somethin= g like a KR, I would probably cut the rollers down to 6" or so. A paint tr= ay is of course required, and everything should be clean, in place, stable, = and accessible. For tipping out the paint, I've used both long, soft, natural bristle brushes, and plain old foam brushes. When working on a vertical surface = you can't put too much paint on and still tip it out without getting runs in = the finish so on vertical surfaces i use the foam brushes. On flat surfaces = you can almost pour the paint the paint on and a soft, long bristle brush is = all that's needed to 'even' the paint around. It is important to keep whatever brush you use as dry as possible during use. I use a liter size yogurt container with a heavy nail pressed acros= s the top. With regular frequency I'll 'scrape' the excess paint/varnish/epoxy off both sides of the brush against the nail. When I= 'm working a large area I've always got a couple of extra brushes clean and ready to go should I drop one, or if the one I'm using begins to disintegrate or loose bristles, or the handle becomes coated in paint. There are always a couple of extra rollers on handles cleaned and ready t= o go too. I use a heavy TV style table I have that is mounted on wheels to place everything on. As we progress down the length of the work, we just keep pushing the cart along with our knees, great time saver. You CANNOT leave the wet edge of the paint/varnish/epoxy for more than a moment if y= ou want to obtain an even finish. Don't plan on sauntering around your shop doing things while you are painting, it'll show! I strongly suggest lock= ing the bloody door!!! If you are right handed, begin painting in from right-to left direction. The person rolling is JUST ahead of you in their application, if fact, yo= u should almost be bumping shoulders. Don't bother about overlapping each others work, there will be lots of overlapping, it's only to be expected. With some practise the 'roller' will quickly come to know how much of an area a roller full of paint can be applied. The idea is to apply as much= as possible without causing runs, and to SPREAD THE PAINT AS EVENLY AS POSSIBLE. The 'tippers' job is to pull out any uneveness, remove the 'orange peel' affect left by the roller, and to ensure an even overlap of applications, and to inspect, inspect, inspect. If you're right handed, = you will 'tip' from left to right, diminishing in the force of the brush agai= nst the work as you begin to tip back into the previous application. To assist the finish work you will need good lighting arranged around the plane so you can see all surfaces without shadows. Lean into the work so= as to reflect the light off the surface, this is the definitive means of knowing what your final surface will look like. DO NOT DELAY!!! Paint flashes off it's most volatile solvents quite quickly when applied, you d= o not want this flashing off to occur before you're finished tipping it hel= ps to keep the shop cool. Make a couple of dry runs along the work before y= ou open a can, know where everything you're going to need is before you need it, talk with your partner about what you're going to be looking for, how you'll be applying the paint, about how close you'll be working together, and about cross checking each others work. This is the process that we follow when finishing large boats so it may sound like overkill for our little airplanes, it isn't. The areas to be covered on a KR are smaller, the time to roll and tip will be short, and the amount of paint used will= be less, but all the process is the same! If you're of the mind, try undercoating then painting a pc of 1/8" arbori= te nailed to your shop wall as practise. To more closely match a KR, cut th= e sheet into 2' x 8' and nail them edge to edge, better practise yet. And,= if you want to do yourself a real favour, setup your fuse on a roller assemb= ly that will allow you to always work on a horizontal surface. Tape the edges/corners off and do a surface a day. (As another aside, if you can paint a surface from beneath, it provides an amazing surface finish! The paint 'floats' up and the 'bottom' of the paint, the surface that you see= , 'floats' to a very fine finish.) When you're finished painting YOU ARE FINISHED PAINTING!!! DO NOT go bac= k and 'touch up' little areas! Until the paint is entirely dry, if you tou= ch it, it'll drag. A big ugly wrinkle or 'wave' will remain. If you get a = fly in your work, DO NOT dig it out! The end result will look like you dug something out of the paint, there'll be a big hole in the surface! Leave the poor insect in place, and when all is said and dry, use your finger n= ail to gently scrape the high points of the but away. An even, flat paint surface will remain, and if anyone spots the remnants of the bug, ask the= m who their optometrist is! This is all a brief description of the rolling and tipping method of painting. If anyone would like to discuss it further, please email me, o= r call me even if you like at 807-468-4764. I'm in Kenora, Ontario, Canada= . mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Johnson" To: "POND CARTER" ; "kr" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:14 PM Subject: Re: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > Hi Carter. Since I was the first to bring up the 'rolling and tipping' > method for painting, (I know, I know, I owe everyone the final > installment..!), I'll tell you what I use for my painting. > > The base primer that I have used alot over the last number of years is > 'Brolite Z-Spar, #105 Undercoat'. It is a marine primer and so will be > available at any marine outlet. Let me know if you need address' for s= ome > good marine chandleries. > > The 105 Undercoat is a good product in that it is one part, can be used > straight out of the can for 'high build' needs, or thinned some for greater > coverage. It is flexible to a degree, ie, it will not crack off if a > surface like the 3/32" ply sides flex a little, and it sands WONDERFULL= Y! > Its versatility is why I've stayed with it, and the fact that I've neve= r > found another undercoat/primer that sands as well. It is available in > Canada. > > As for paint products, I'm always kinda leary of telling people what I have > used because there tends to be a 'complex and expensive has got to be > better' mindset out there with some people. I have used complex and > expensive (a FOUR part polyeurathane that was a complete waist of time = and > money!), and I've used common two part 'epoxy' paints. Taking all thin= gs > into account, I've never found a need for these fancy materials (though= I > must say that 'Alumagrip' is great stuff!). I've always just used good= , one > part, exterior, oil based enamel. Sorry if I've let you down...! > > As for the enamels that I've used, the cheap International 'Interlux' i= s a > pain to get a good finish with but lasts well. Benjamin Moore 'Impervo= ' is > good to use, easy to get good coverage and finish with, and lasts all b= ut > about 3 years or so less that the 12 or so expected from the Internatio= nal > product. International Paints now has a good one part enamel out that = has > teflon in it, not really necessary for our use as we're not walking on = our > planes, nor rubbing them up against docks and other boats. They also h= ave a > one part polyuerathane that is nice to work with but difficult to repai= r. > One of the problems with some of the colour 'thanes is that the pigment= is > topical. A bit of a scratch can sometimes leave a white line showing t= hat > you can't get rid of at all. > > For consideration, think of how many homebuilders you know who have painted > their airplane, flown it, and spent the next great amount of time just > enjoying flying their plane. Most people I know have always managed to find > something to tinker on after the plane is 'finished'. To this end, aga= in, > the cheap, easy, one part enamels are good because they are very easy t= o > 'blend in' after a repair or modification is required. > > I know it's not fancy, and again I say that I am always leary of tellin= g > people what I use, but the above works for me. I've been designing and > building wooden boats, mostly sail, for 35 years now (GAGH!!!), and I'v= e > turned out two 'show boats', all using the same products and process'. = As > for clear finishes, I HATE the 'thanes! Never had I had ANY of the 'thanes > work for me! Varnish, good old spar varnish, lasts longer, stands up t= o > more, is easier to maintain and repair, and is cheaper too boot! I lik= e > Behr Spar Varnish. I've got it on my boat and after ten years it still > shines after a washing. > > If you'd like to chat more about this Carter, please drop me a line. A= nd I > know, I know.. I owe everyone a description of 'rolling and tipping'. I've > found just from the work that I've done this summer that 'rolling and > tipping' is something I know how to do, but I have to learn how to expl= ain > it. Painting, as anyone who has done any amount will tell you, is a ve= ry > personal thing, everyone has their own process and belief system! LOL!!!!! > mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "POND CARTER" > To: "kr" > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:37 PM > Subject: KR> Primer for rolling and tipping? > > > > Hi KR netters > > Can any one suggest a high build primer that I can purchase in Canada= ? > > I would really like to try the Rolling and Tipping method for primer = and > > finish paint. So an suggest for finish paint would be appreciated too= . > > Thanks > > Carter > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C126A3.CC748E80-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:47:24 -0700 To: From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Composite Gear Leg Weight Message-ID: <001001c12617$1a30e5c0$2509eccf@peter> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C125DC.407189A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Further to my earlier submission, the gear legs as they have been cut, = radiused, and sanded are 4 1/4 lbs each. mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C125DC.407189A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:48:55 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KMcKen1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Composite Gear Leg Weight Message-ID: <51.fe0a915.28ad7da7@aol.com> Speaking of landing gear, what type of aluminum and also the thickness should I use for the landing gear? I have a gentleman locally that will bend it for me if I get the material. Keith McKenzie Ft. Myers, FL. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:06:43 -0500 To: "larry flesner" , "krnet" From: "JEAN VERON" Subject: Re: KR> Pitch and HP Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C125DE.F37B5C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The prop I bought from Marty was a Sterba 56 x 74. He turned it 2400 rpm = static and 2925 rpm in flight at 187 mph. At 2600 rpm he indicated 170 mp= h. He now has a Margie Waneke prop and gets about 195 mph and I don't kno= w the rpm or pitch. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:14 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Pitch and HP >Does anyone have a formula to calculate the engine power required to tur= n a (58"/61"p) prop 2700rpm. >Carlton B +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= +++ +++ I'm running an 0-200 and Ed Sterba recomended a 60 D., 68 inch pitch. That will probably be pretty close as Marty Roberts runs something very close to that. I'd take a W.A.G. and say you would need to develop somewhere close to 90 h.p. to turn your prop at that R.P.M. That guess is based on absolutely nothing scientific so take it for what it's worth! I think the 0-200 is rated at 100 H.P. at 2750 R.P.M. Larry Flesner --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C125DE.F37B5C40-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:08:03 -0500 To: "JEAN VERON" , "larry flesner" , "krnet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Pitch and HP Message-ID: <004801c12654$7c92fa40$ebd8fea9@pavilion> Netters: I met Marty at the Canton, Texas gathering and he told me that he was getting 240mph with his Margie Waneke prop. He made two or three high speed runs across the field and it looked like more than 195mph to me. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEAN VERON" To: "larry flesner" ; "krnet" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Re: KR> Pitch and HP The prop I bought from Marty was a Sterba 56 x 74. He turned it 2400 rpm static and 2925 rpm in flight at 187 mph. At 2600 rpm he indicated 170 mph. He now has a Margie Waneke prop and gets about 195 mph and I don't know the rpm or pitch. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:14 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Pitch and HP >Does anyone have a formula to calculate the engine power required to turn a (58"/61"p) prop 2700rpm. >Carlton B ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ I'm running an 0-200 and Ed Sterba recomended a 60 D., 68 inch pitch. That will probably be pretty close as Marty Roberts runs something very close to that. I'd take a W.A.G. and say you would need to develop somewhere close to 90 h.p. to turn your prop at that R.P.M. That guess is based on absolutely nothing scientific so take it for what it's worth! I think the 0-200 is rated at 100 H.P. at 2750 R.P.M. Larry Flesner --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:19:33 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: DONAN5@aol.com Subject: please remove me Message-ID: --part1_f3.e65a9e7.28acce05_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pleaase remove me this is my second post on this thanks --part1_f3.e65a9e7.28acce05_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:10:19 -0700 To: From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Further to the Composite Gear Legs Message-ID: <003d01c1266d$fd6f38e0$1ca5e2d1@peter> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C12633.458ADAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Parker asked for clarification regarding design requirements for = landing gear. When a landing gear system is designed for a certain imposed landing = load, the loading is assumed to be a TOTAL imposition acting on the = ENTIRE landing gear system. Each main gear leg would carry ALMOST half = of this total imposed landing load. The tailwheel must be designed for = a minumum amount, and of course a nose wheel must be designed for more = loading. The loads taken by the nose or tail wheel are assumed to be = removed from the load the main wheels will have to accept. It is not = out of place though to assume that the tail or nose wheel will not = impact the ground before the mains do, so it's not bad practise to = design the entire main landing system to accept all the load. With this = assumption, each individual gear leg would be designed to carry HALF of = the total imposed landing load. In the case of a 2G landing with a 1000 = lb aircraft, this would mean that each leg would carry 1000 lbs total = imposed landing load. With regards to my testing, at 1390 lbs load required to discplace the = tire 10", this is 1390 lbs applied to ONE leg, this means that 2780 is = being applied to the complete main wheel landing gear system. At a gross weight of 1200 lbs on a KR, this means that 2780/1200 =3D 2.3 = G landing gear design capability. Hope this helps, and I hope that I haven't muddied the waters. If = anyone would like to discuss this further, please contact me... mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C12633.458ADAC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:59:36 +0200 To: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9fan_Balatchev?= Subject: Re: KR> Further to the Composite Gear Legs Message-ID: <001701c12664$12116700$68b40950@TTKRD> Good first approach could be found in "Evans Lightplane Designers' Handbook", page 99. The limit load factor is calculated using the descent velocity (by FAR23) and then the limit load factor on the structure (fittings, etc.) having the stroke and the shock efficiency of the tires and the gear legs. Stefan Balatchev, Paris, France ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Johnson" To: Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:10 PM Subject: KR> Further to the Composite Gear Legs Richard Parker asked for clarification regarding design requirements for landing gear. When a landing gear system is designed for a certain imposed landing load, the loading is assumed to be a TOTAL imposition acting on the ENTIRE landing gear system. Each main gear leg would carry ALMOST half of this total imposed landing load. The tailwheel must be designed for a minumum amount, and of course a nose wheel must be designed for more loading. The loads taken by the nose or tail wheel are assumed to be removed from the load the main wheels will have to accept. It is not out of place though to assume that the tail or nose wheel will not impact the ground before the mains do, so it's not bad practise to design the entire main landing system to accept all the load. With this assumption, each individual gear leg would be designed to carry HALF of the total imposed landing load. In the case of a 2G landing with a 1000 lb aircraft, this would mean that each leg would carry 1000 lbs total imposed landing load. With regards to my testing, at 1390 lbs load required to discplace the tire 10", this is 1390 lbs applied to ONE leg, this means that 2780 is being applied to the complete main wheel landing gear system. At a gross weight of 1200 lbs on a KR, this means that 2780/1200 = 2.3 G landing gear design capability. Hope this helps, and I hope that I haven't muddied the waters. If anyone would like to discuss this further, please contact me... mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:40:44 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: Subject: Fwd: Message-Id: <200108161840.NAA00160@nm1.nwbl.wi.voyager.net> ---- Forwarded message from "Patrick Panzera" ---- Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:52:37 -0700 From: "Patrick Panzera" To: "Steven Rahm" , "VW" ,, , ===============================CorvAIRCRAFT=============================== I just got off the phone with William Wynne. He’s doing much better. He and his sister took a walk around block today (twice), a but more than a mile. It’s imperative that he keep moving as his wounds heal so that he can keep his full range of motion... but it’s very painful. Anyway, I asked if I could publish his mailing address and he said sure. The cards and letters he’s received to date have been a source of joy for him. He’s kept every scrap of anything sent him, and looks at it and re-reads all regularly. The cards and letters truly mean to him more than I can convey. Phone calls on the other hand can be a nuisance. That’s one reason I’ve called so infrequently, and have relied on Steve for my information. William’s voice is not very strong, as he did get his throat burned some, and he’s still healing from the breathing tube. Additionally, it don’t take much to get him all choked up. It’s a very emotional time for him, and he’d rather choose the time to be emotional (as in deciding when to read the wonderful letters he’s received) rather than breaking down during a phone call and being self conscious about it. These are tears of joy actually, as he’s totally overwhelmed by the even the smallest kind words. Anyhow, I’d like to encourage everyone to send him a little something, card, note, letter, photo of your project, well wish, etc. and send it to his folks house in New Jersey. The address is: William Wynne 32 Spenser Drive Short Hills NJ 07078 If you’d rather send an e-mail, address it to me and I’ll print it up and add it to the others when I send them the next check. He's not on line at present. Thanks! Pat ...and as usual, please forward this to the KR, Piet, Vision, etc. lists for me. ===============================CorvAIRCRAFT=============================== To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe corvaircraft" to"majordomo@usm.edu" For help send "info corvaircraft" or "help" to "majordomo@usm.edu" ------ End forwarded message ------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:35:09 -0700 To: From: "David" Subject: Re: REMOVE. Message-ID: <010201c1268a$91b0a5e0$88f7b23f@david> -----Original Message----- From Dave Stevens Please remove me from the e-mail newsletter, there is just too many incoming messages mixed in with work stuff. I'll get another account for this stuff. thx...D > >Hey Joe! You sign up the same way as you do on aol or any other account. >I'm signed up for both. You can see the ones that bleed through aols screen >but hotmail will get them all. Lynn C Hyder > >>From: CruzJ12@aol.com >>To: kr2jm@d-web.com, krnet@mailinglists.org >>Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering >>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:16:52 EDT >> >>How do I subscribe to krnet with my hotmail account? > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:00:43 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Subaru Engine Message-ID: <119.34257af.28ad8e7b@aol.com> For Sale, Rebuilt 1984 EA 81 Subaru engine. Would need redrive. Have pictures if you are interested. $500.00 + cost of shipping. Call Don Clarke 915-755-0588 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:12:02 -0300 To: "KR-net" From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Subject: Adhesives Message-ID: <00ce01c126ae$dedbdb40$681c33c8@satellite> ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C12687.54955DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters Does anybody know about the difference between epoxi and resorcinol in = propellers use. Can we use any of both or resorcinol is better? Thanks Eduardo ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C12687.54955DC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:06:52 -0700 To: "Eduardo Iglesias" , "KR-net" From: Jan Laan Subject: Re: KR> Adhesives Message-ID: <99801399201@smtp.vphos.net> Hi, If you use resorcinol you can boil the propeller for 24 hrs and it will stay in one piece.With epoxy, it won't . Further, you get very dark outspoken glue lines. That's about it. jan At 07:12 PM 8/16/01 -0300, Eduardo Iglesias wrote: >Netters > >Does anybody know about the difference between epoxi and resorcinol in propellers use. Can we use any of both or resorcinol is better? >Thanks >Eduardo > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:15:41 -0500 To: "KR-net" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Adhesives Message-ID: <004c01c126c2$83dd64c0$a600a8c0@athlon600> > If you use resorcinol you can boil the propeller for 24 hrs and > it will stay in one piece.With epoxy, it won't . I'll make a notation in my Operator's Manual: "Do NOT boil propeller for more than 24 hours!"... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:04:38 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KRNet FAQ Message-ID: <004001c126c0$f8c91ab0$a600a8c0@athlon600> KRNetHeads, Steve Eberhart asked if I'd put the KRNet FAQ on my site for a while, since he's still ironing out the Linux installation on his server. The FAQ is now at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/faq/ . I took a stroll through memory lane and there's a lot of good stuff in there, things like "how to build a gullwing canopy", "how to cool your engine", Dr. Dean's "how to die an agonizing death by hotwiring urethane foam", etc. Check it out, even if you THINK you know exactly what's there. Anybody that wants to add to it or upgrade articles is welcome to send them my way. One thing I'll need to fix soon is we have an old link to Rick Junkin's KR Test Flight Plan, but the link to the latest one on his web page is there. And some of the pictures are hosed up... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:14:06 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Micro slurry Message-ID: <3B7CA81E.191FBC43@home.com> Hi guys Is there anything I can put on my rubber putty spreader to help spread dry micro slurry or micro ballons and resin? I was thinking of some thing much like water on an icecream scoop helps the cause. Carter ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************