From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 26 Sep 2001 22:53:22 -0000 Issue 299 Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:53 PM krnet Digest 26 Sep 2001 22:53:22 -0000 Issue 299 Topics (messages 7178 through 7196): Digital scales for mixing resin.... 7178 by: Jerry Mahurin 7182 by: Larry A. Capps 7183 by: Mark Langford 7184 by: Mark Jones 7185 by: Tim Brown 7186 by: David Mullins Tri-gear weight and balance 7179 by: Oscar Zuniga Re: Gathering photos 7180 by: JEAN VERON Re: the floor 7181 by: Donald Reid 7188 by: virgnvs.juno.com weight & balance (long) 7187 by: Oscar Zuniga Interior for sale 7189 by: moat1 7192 by: Jim Sellars Spar mounting 7190 by: moat1 7191 by: Mark Jones Returned Safe and Sound 7193 by: Seifert, Richard E 7194 by: Jerry Mahurin KR Gathering Photo's 7195 by: Seifert, Richard E 7196 by: Mark Langford Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:33:52 -0400 To: "KRnet" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: Netters..... Those of you who attended Mark Langford's Composite Workshop at the Gathering know how important it is to have a good digital scale that measures in very small units (like grams). Well, you can pay Aircraft Spruce $105 (plus shipping) for a Pelouse PE5 or you can get one from Staples Office supply for $69.95 (free shipping). I ordered one this morning and they said that I would have it by Wednesday.... You can order either on the internet..... Now, someone tell me where I can get some 5+ oz Carbon cloth relatively cheap..... Keep on keeping on, Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:20:52 -0500 To: "'KRnet'" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: <000d01c14560$5207bba0$0200a8c0@24.181.195.150> MIXING EPOXY RATIO ACCURATELY For the average homebuilder, my favorite combo is a good "digital scale" and calculator, over mechanical dispenser pumps anytime. By using two sizes of squeeze bottles, your Resin and Harder is always conveniently at hand. Moreover, using a Hot Box, allows you to be ready for action in most weather conditions. This setup works with any resin system, and can be dependent upon being as accurate as you are anytime. When shopping for a scale, look for one which uses batteries, an AC/DC(9V) adapter, and is a portable "digital scale"; it should be capable of measuring out a minimum quantity of 2000 grams, in 1-gram increments. Two of my all time favorite scales for this activity are the OHAUS CS2000 that can weight out 2000 grams in 1-gram increments for $73.00, or the ACCULAB V-4000 that can weigh out 4000 grams in 1-gram increments for $120. Regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- have a good digital scale that measures in very small units (like grams). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:20:33 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: <013901c14560$4655ce50$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> Jerry Mahurin wrote: > Now, someone tell me where I can get some 5+ oz Carbon cloth > relatively cheap..... I got some last month for $19 a yard for 50" wide 5.85 ounce (I think it was) from Advance Composite Materials, Inc, at 918-499-8850 ( at http://www.advanced-composites.com/index_ie.htm ), thanks to a lead from a KRNetter. That's as cheap as I've found it, but somebody is more than welcome to show me a better source. Now that I've had breakfast with Jerry in Pine Bluff, I know exactly who I'm talking to... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:18:14 -0500 To: Jerry Mahurin From: Mark Jones CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: <3BAFE966.CE28D27C@execpc.com> Jerry, try this link. Frank Weston has just about every composite cloth needed. If it's not on eBay auction, then e-mail him and he will get it for you a lot cheaper than other suppliers. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=weston1944&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Mark Jones Jerry Mahurin wrote: > Now, someone tell me where I can get some 5+ oz Carbon cloth > relatively cheap..... > -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:25:08 -0700 (PDT) To: Mark Jones , Jerry Mahurin From: Tim Brown Cc: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: <20010925022508.45593.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Go to www.royal.com click on the scales picture at the bottom then to the ex2 in grams. $39.95 It works wonderfully. Tim --- Mark Jones wrote: > Jerry, try this link. Frank Weston has just > about every composite cloth > needed. If it's not on eBay auction, then > e-mail him and he will get it > for you a lot cheaper than other suppliers. > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=weston1944&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 > > Mark Jones > > Jerry Mahurin wrote: > > > Now, someone tell me where I can get some 5+ > oz Carbon cloth > > relatively cheap..... > > > > -- > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: > krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so > use some other system! > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:37:29 -0400 To: Jerry Mahurin From: David Mullins CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Digital scales for mixing resin.... Message-ID: <3BAFFBF9.388D9B3@mediaone.net> Jerry, Check out advanced composite materials @ http://www.a-c-m.com/ Dave Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire Jerry Mahurin wrote: > Netters..... > > Those of you who attended Mark Langford's Composite Workshop > at the Gathering know how important it is to have a good > digital scale that measures in very small units (like > grams). > > Well, you can pay Aircraft Spruce $105 (plus shipping) for a > Pelouse PE5 or you can get one from Staples Office supply > for $69.95 (free shipping). I ordered one this morning and > they said that I would have it by Wednesday.... > > You can order either on the internet..... > > Now, someone tell me where I can get some 5+ oz Carbon cloth > relatively cheap..... > > Keep on keeping on, > > Jerry Mahurin > Lugoff, SC > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:30:38 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Tri-gear weight and balance Message-ID: Bob asked: >Does anyone out there have a computer program to do the >initial weight and balance on the KR2S? Yes, sir. Someone (Mark Langford?) cooked up an Excel spreadsheet called wb.xls and I have it. If you can't locate it elsewhere, email me direct and I'll forward it. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:05:14 -0500 To: "Mark Langford" , "krnet" From: "JEAN VERON" Subject: Re: KR> Gathering photos Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C14534.393560E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the pictures. Marty and I tried to get there sat. but were fog= ged in until after noon and both of us had to work sunday. Jean N4DD Broken Arrow, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 9:27 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Gathering photos OK, I've dumped all my photos at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ . Click on the thumbnai= l to get an image that is UN-edited but compressed by a factor of fifteen (= the originals are half a meg each). I will pick out the highlights, doctor t= he photos, and write a whole new website with some text about them later, bu= t for now, this might help you feel better if you missed it. If you have a question, send it to KRNet, because it's possible that the owner could answer it better than I could. I'll make a CD of those whose planes I to= ok air to air photos of and send the full size jpg files directly to them, eventually. Basically, the first three photos are of Mike Garbez's Corvair engine wit= h a Great Plains direct drive on it, the white KR2S with red stripes is Dean Selby's, the KR2S with winglets belongs to Gene Knight of Gulf Shores, AL= , the white KR2 with purple leading edge belongs to Terry Chizak of Kansas, the red/yellow/black KR2 is Tommy Waymack's, the blue/white KR1 is Richar= d Shirley's immaculate 1983 beauty (don't ask me how he managed not to win = a single award with what was obviously the best KR there by FAR), Rich Sief= ert flew the stock retract white KR2 with gull wing door, Ken Thomas flew the orange/blue trigear, Troy Petteway flew N100TP, Steve Bennett flew the KR= 1.5 that he is shown pulling out of the hangar by its prop, and the white/red Soob powered thing's owner escaped me, but he somehow managed to rack up three trophies. I'm officially volunteering to judge airplanes next year= in Iowa, although I hope to be disqualified due to conflict-of-interest! Many thanks to Larry Flesner for providing his Tripacer to act as photo plane, and about three hours of his time (and fuel) flying around to get = all these nice air-to-air photos. My apologies to those who I didn't get to meet, especially the guys that I blasted past on my way to the bathroom immediately after landing... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C14534.393560E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:13:10 -0400 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> the floor Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010924210846.00a15200@pop.erols.com> --=====================_18498711==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:00 PM 9/24/2001 -0700, Tim Brown wrote: >According to the plans only the very forward >portion of the KR2S floor gets an overlay of 1/4" >ply with the rest remaining thin. > >Are you all finding this adequate, or are most >going with 1/4" all over or doubling the thin >birch ply? I put 2.5 mm (~3/32") birch from the firewall back to the baggage area and then 6 mm (~1/4") birch from the firewall to the first cross member over the thinner piece. I have foam in between the floor and the fuselage bottom. It is strong enough to stand on. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_18498711==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:19:43 -0400 To: timwbrown@yahoo.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> the floor Message-ID: <20010925.133259.-456701.0.virgnvs@juno.com> The floor only keeps your feet in place above the cross pieces. 1/4" good enough, Virg On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Tim Brown writes: > According to the plans only the very forward > portion of the KR2S floor gets an overlay of 1/4" > ply with the rest remaining thin. > > Are you all finding this adequate, or are most > going with 1/4" all over or doubling the thin > birch ply? > > Tim > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! > Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:06:25 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: weight & balance (long) Message-ID: Hello, netters; There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding about the nature of doing a weight and balance on an homebuilt. It is not like a certified aircraft where everything is specific and standardized. If you take a 1966 Cessna 150 and do a weight and balance on it, you are dealing with a specific and known certificated gross weight, basic empty weight, fuel and oil capacities, moment arms, etc.- and to that you simply adjust for installed accessories and equipment or STC'd changes. The allowable CG range is established by the manufacturer and is a requirement of the aircraft's certification (it's been tested within those limits), and the aircraft must be operated within those limits. That's how they come up with those neat little "loading envelope" graphs... every 1966 Cessna 150 is supposed to measure the same distance from the mains to the nosewheel, from the mains to the datum, from the seats to the datum, from everything to the datum. You can buy a Pilot's Operating Handbook for a 1966 Cessna 150, go find one anywhere in the world, and the information on weight & balance will apply to any and all stock, certificated 1966 Cessna 150s. You do not need to take out a tape measure and plumb bob, scales, and calculator to determine its w&b- because they all measure the same. Just decide how much fuel, oil, souls, and baggage you want to put in, and you can easily figure out if you're good to go or not. Not so with a homebuilt! There is no such thing as a KR-2 standard weight and balance! There is a published CG range, but there are some problems with the published aft limits of the range and people have gotten in trouble by ignoring that. Anyway, a "standard" or "generic" weight and balance computation is just that: it's a computation, a formula into which numbers are plugged and which does a relatively simple calculation to determine the resulting center of gravity. There is not one w&b formula for a KR-2, another for a -2S, another for a trigear... it's the same formula. You determine the values for your basic empty weight, your fuel and oil capacities, your allowable max. gross (guided, we hope, by the designer's stated values!), your selected datum, your weighing points. If we all built the airplane the same, there might be a "standard", but as it is, each builder changes things and builds using a different engine, canopy, tailwheel, accessories, and a host of other things. About the closest you could get to a "standard" would be comparing a complete kit purchased from Rand-Robinson and including the kit landing gear and premolds, but even that can have a wide CG variation based on your choice of engine alone. Anything else is going to be different, which means that there can be no "standard KR weight and balance sheet". The only constant, if we can even call it that, is the published and allowable range for the CG. But unless you're doing some re-engineering of the design, you don't want to be changing those limits (except to use a narrower range). So... to those who requested the weight & balance spreadsheet, I gladly send it along but I can tell you that this type of computation will work for everything from a Pedal Pitts to an Antonov, and everything in between, because math is math. I can't vouch for its accuracy (no idea what the decimal place limits are) or its error-trapping, but mathematically we're talking about your basic operations: add, subtract, multiply, divide! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:49:34 -0400 To: "KRnet" From: "moat1" Subject: Interior for sale Message-ID: <005a01c1461c$bc3e1b60$536a153f@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C145FB.33580980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a complete interior for a KR2. They appear to never have been = installed. I got them when I purchased a partially completed project. This includes 2 side panels with pockets, 2 bottom cushions, 2 seat back = cushions and carpeting. The cushions are just the padded covers and = there is additional room for more padding that is not included. They must be used on a center stick design and I am building a dual = stick. Color is somewhere between harvest gold and brown. I can e mail a photo of them if you are interested. I am asking $150 plus shipping. I also have a vinyl sling seat. Double stitched grey in color. Again = for a center stick. I am asking $25 plus shipping. Please reply directly and not on the KRnet. Thank you. Alan Moat moat1@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C145FB.33580980-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:35:47 -0300 To: "moat1" , "KRnet" From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> Interior for sale Message-ID: <001501c14687$c64192c0$8ba89aa5@mainpc> Alan: Hope that you don't mind but I have some parts too. I have a turtle deck, foreward deck, sling seat, spring gear with tires & wheels& brakes, molded fuel atnk with sender unit installed and fuel quantity instrument. I would be interested in a picture of your interior parts, Can you post them on the net? Regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "moat1" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: KR> Interior for sale I have a complete interior for a KR2. They appear to never have been installed. I got them when I purchased a partially completed project. This includes 2 side panels with pockets, 2 bottom cushions, 2 seat back cushions and carpeting. The cushions are just the padded covers and there is additional room for more padding that is not included. They must be used on a center stick design and I am building a dual stick. Color is somewhere between harvest gold and brown. I can e mail a photo of them if you are interested. I am asking $150 plus shipping. I also have a vinyl sling seat. Double stitched grey in color. Again for a center stick. I am asking $25 plus shipping. Please reply directly and not on the KRnet. Thank you. Alan Moat moat1@msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:56:56 -0400 To: "KRnet" From: "moat1" Subject: Spar mounting Message-ID: <006301c1461d$c374eb60$536a153f@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C145FC.3AC8D540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have lost one of my KR2s Drawings. I cannot remember if 5/8" blocking = goes on the inside of the fuselage to secure the spars or if they are = just on the outside. I do see on drawing B that I need load transfer block on top of the = main spar to secure it to the fuselage, what I cannot remember find is = if a need these on hte rear spar. Can someone please let me know. Still looking for drawing A of my supplement. Alan Moat moat1@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C145FC.3AC8D540-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:31:57 -0500 To: moat1 From: Mark Jones CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Spar mounting Message-ID: <3BB1300D.31C32488@execpc.com> The 5/8 blocking is only required on the outside of the fuselage. The load transfer blocking is a must on the main spar however is not called for on the rear spar. Mark Jones moat1 wrote: > I have lost one of my KR2s Drawings. I cannot remember if 5/8" blocking goes on the inside of the fuselage to secure the spars or if they are just on the outside. > > I do see on drawing B that I need load transfer block on top of the main spar to secure it to the fuselage, what I cannot remember find is if a need these on hte rear spar. > > Can someone please let me know. > > Still looking for drawing A of my supplement. > > Alan Moat > moat1@msn.com -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:57:34 -0700 To: "'KRnet'" From: "Seifert, Richard E" Subject: Returned Safe and Sound Message-ID: <9BA7A06DA8127B4B925954F3F8705D349F7FA4@XCH-SW-09.ds.boeing.com> Just wanted to let you know Rich Shirley and I arrived back from a great time at the KR Gathering to Southern CA, safe and sound. My turbo was getting worse by the hour but continued to function till landing. Disassembly of the turbo revealed the problem. Each oil hole to the turbo bearing had an obstruction at least partially blocking the flow. I found metal chips in two holes, a large chunk of silicone gasket sealer in the third hole and an unknown substance plugging the last hole. I should be able to flush the oil system and rebuild the turbo and be flying in a week or two. The trip to and from the KR Gathering was very enjoyable otherwise, and we had a slight tailwind both directions. We put 10 hours on the KR's each way and averaged a little over 150 mph on each leg. I really enjoyed meeting all you builders and other KR pilots and am looking forward to next years gathering. Thanks for a great time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:48:07 -0400 To: "Seifert, Richard E" ,"'KRnet'" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> Returned Safe and Sound Message-ID: Rich & Rich, I for one really enjoyed our California Buddies company at the Gathering...... Glad to hear you and your turbo made the trip. Looking forward to seeing you again in Red Oak. Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:57:34 -0700 "Seifert, Richard E" wrote: > Just wanted to let you know Rich Shirley and I arrived > back from a great > time at the KR Gathering to Southern CA, safe and sound. > My turbo was > getting worse by the hour but continued to function till > landing. > Disassembly of the turbo revealed the problem. Each oil > hole to the turbo > bearing had an obstruction at least partially blocking > the flow. I found > metal chips in two holes, a large chunk of silicone > gasket sealer in the > third hole and an unknown substance plugging the last > hole. I should be > able to flush the oil system and rebuild the turbo and be > flying in a week > or two. The trip to and from the KR Gathering was very > enjoyable otherwise, > and we had a slight tailwind both directions. We put 10 > hours on the KR's > each way and averaged a little over 150 mph on each leg. > I really enjoyed > meeting all you builders and other KR pilots and am > looking forward to next > years gathering. Thanks for a great time. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or > "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some > other system! >