From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 29 Nov 2001 10:08:39 -0000 Issue 331 Date: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:09 AM krnet Digest 29 Nov 2001 10:08:39 -0000 Issue 331 Topics (messages 7795 through 7816): Re: Stub Wing Layup 7795 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7796 by: Frank Ross 7798 by: Lynn Hyder 7799 by: Ron Eason 7806 by: Daniel Heath Re: stick location 7797 by: Bobby Muse 7800 by: Robert Stone 7804 by: Daniel Heath 7805 by: Higdon, Bill 7808 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7809 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7816 by: Daniel Heath strange file from a Netter 7801 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7803 by: Stephen Glover Ellison 7802 by: Sam Sayer Re: (Virus) and double RE:RE 7807 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER tricycle gear 7810 by: Gail Dondlinger 7811 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Serge Vidal 7812 by: Oscar Zuniga WARNING - Rudder Hinges 7813 by: Serge VIDAL 7815 by: Daniel Heath virus message 7814 by: Gail Dondlinger Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:11:38 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "Livingstone, Danny \(DJ\)" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Stub Wing Layup Message-ID: Yes; sometimes making something stronger move the stress load to someplace not stronger. Making an aircraft heavier makes it not stronger at any given airspeed or G load or gust load, IF IT IS HEAVIER. If you were building a fishing rod and made part of it stronger, then the load would be less well distributed. However, what's not clear to me is, is the wing covered two layers over the entire leading edge to the main spar, or just a structural overlap to make it like one piece of cloth? From my experience and having seen a lot of leading edge dents, and looking at airfoil pressure distribution, I think I'd like two layer spar to spar for several reasons. Isn't it neat how we can get so wrapped up over a very simple issue or description? Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) [mailto:danny.livingstone@natref.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:26 AM To: KR- Net Subject: RE: KR> Stub Wing Layup Jim As far as I know most people are making their wing 2 layers all the way round for better tortional strength. Any other opinions? Danny Livingstone > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:15:50 -0800 (PST) To: KR- Net From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Stub Wing Layup Message-ID: <20011128191550.91208.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Just a note to add to the confusion: At the KR Gathering this year was a long-nosed Subaru-powered KR-2 with STRONG wing stubs. The pilot and passenger both stepped out onto the wing (NOT at the same time though), stood on the wing and pulled stuff out of the cockpit. The pilot was 6'5" tall and weighed 265 lbs (he told me). I was impressed. His secret? He claims that the wing is solid foam in that area with two layers of glass on top and three on bottom. No additional (read heavier) wood supports. "You'll never step through that set-up" he told me. I have never built a wing, so take it for what it's worth. Maybe only on one side for egress? How would that effect trim? Your decision. BTW, I have a nice digital photo of this little fellow standing on his wing looking into the sunset. I will send it to you off line, if you want. Frank __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:10:37 -0800 To: kae_ar@yahoo.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Lynn Hyder" Subject: Re: KR> Stub Wing Layup Message-ID: I solid foam cored my wings and have three layers of 6oz on the inboard sections on both sides of the cabin. I'm 6'4" 280 lbs and can walk on it OK. Another thing to remember is how much time you will be on your knees, on the wing working in the cockpit which is harder on the wing than your feet. Lynn Hyder N37LH >From: Frank Ross >To: KR- Net >Subject: Re: KR> Stub Wing Layup >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:15:50 -0800 (PST) > >Jim, >Just a note to add to the confusion: At the KR >Gathering this year was a long-nosed Subaru-powered >KR-2 with STRONG wing stubs. The pilot and passenger >both stepped out onto the wing (NOT at the same time >though), stood on the wing and pulled stuff out of the >cockpit. The pilot was 6'5" tall and weighed 265 lbs >(he told me). I was impressed. His secret? He claims >that the wing is solid foam in that area with two >layers of glass on top and three on bottom. No >additional (read heavier) wood supports. >"You'll never step through that set-up" he told me. >I have never built a wing, so take it for what it's >worth. Maybe only on one side for egress? How would >that effect trim? >Your decision. >BTW, I have a nice digital photo of this little fellow >standing on his wing looking into the sunset. I will >send it to you off line, if you want. >Frank > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. >http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:16:12 -0800 To: KR- Net , "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: RE: KR> Stub Wing Layup Message-Id: <200111281216.AA19661022@jrl-engineering.com> The third layer will give you more mechnical strenght due to strikes by anything such as people who bump them. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:26:16 +0200 >Jim >As far as I know most people are making their wing 2 layers all the way >round for better tortional strength. Any other opinions? > >Danny Livingstone >Sasolburg >South Africa > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Morehead [SMTP:kr2jm@d-web.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:31 AM >> To: KR- Net >> Subject: KR> Stub Wing Layup >> >> Netters: >> When glassing the stub wings of the KR-2, the RR book, page 75 states >> that the first layup will be from the top of the forward spar to the >> trailing edge. Then there is two layers of glass from the main spar >> forward. Is there any reason that you should not use one layer of glass >> from the trailing edge all the way forward and around the leading edge >> with >> the second layer of glass from below the leading edge to behind the main >> spar? The only difference would be that there is only two layers of glass >> over the main spar and not three as described on page 75. >> >> Thanks, >> Jim Morehead >> Cameron Park, CA >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" >> >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > >********************************************************************** >This e-mail and its attachments, if any, are intended only >for use by the named addressee(s) and may contain >information that is legally privileged, confidential, or both. If >you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are >strictly prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying >this email and its attachments, if any. If you have received >this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and >permanently delete the original and any copies of this e-mail, >its attachments, and any printed copies of any of them. >********************************************************************** > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:31:25 -0500 To: "Jerry Mahurin" , "Robert X. Cringely" , From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Stub Wing Layup Message-ID: <004001c17875$9054fc40$bb2c5d0c@scana.com> I agree. Never add any weight to an airplane unless it is necessary. Be sure that the weight brings benefit and the deficit, you can live with. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Mahurin" To: "Robert X. Cringely" ; Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:39 AM Subject: Re: KR> Stub Wing Layup > Amen Brother Bob on the extra weight...!!!! > > Jerry Mahurin > Lugoff, SC > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:45:29 -0800 > "Robert X. Cringely" wrote: > > Is there a history of KR wing failures due in torsion? > > No. That > > extra glass is just extra weight. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > >Jim > > >As far as I know most people are making their wing 2 > > layers all the way > > >round for better tortional strength. Any other opinions? > > > > > >Danny Livingstone > > >Sasolburg > > >South Africa > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Jim Morehead [SMTP:kr2jm@d-web.com] > > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:31 AM > > >> To: KR- Net > > >> Subject: KR> Stub Wing Layup > > >> > > >> Netters: > > >> When glassing the stub wings of the KR-2, the RR > > book, page 75 states > > >> that the first layup will be from the top of the > > forward spar to the > > >> trailing edge. Then there is two layers of glass > > from the main spar > > >> forward. Is there any reason that you should not use > > one layer of glass > > >> from the trailing edge all the way forward and around > > the leading edge > > >> with > > >> the second layer of glass from below the leading edge > > to behind the main > > >> spar? The only difference would be that there is > > only two layers of glass > > >> over the main spar and not three as described on page > > 75. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Jim Morehead > > >> Cameron Park, CA > > >> > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > > or "reply all" > > >> > > >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > >> > > >> See the KRNet archives at > > http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > >> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use > > some other system! > > > > > > > > >********************************************************************** > > >This e-mail and its attachments, if any, are intended > > only > > >for use by the named addressee(s) and may contain > > >information that is legally privileged, confidential, or > > both. If > > >you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you > > are > > >strictly prohibited from disseminating, distributing or > > copying > > >this email and its attachments, if any. If you have > > received > > >this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the > > sender and > > >permanently delete the original and any copies of this > > e-mail, > > >its attachments, and any printed copies of any of them. > > >********************************************************************** > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or > > "reply all" > > > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > >For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > . > > >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some > > other system! > > > > > > -- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or > > "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some > > other system! > > > > Jerry Mahurin > Lugoff, SC > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:44:37 -0600 To: Tim Brown From: Bobby Muse CC: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> stick location Message-ID: <3C053EA5.FB4490EE@ev1.net> I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could use a single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was wrong. With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to stabilize your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved. With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all the time. With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in flight with the stick in the middle. Bobby Muse Tim Brown wrote: > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > between the pilot and passenger versus between > the pilot's legs. > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:08:31 -0600 (Central Standard Time) To: , From: "Robert Stone" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> stick location Message-Id: <3C05524F.00002B.62203@pavilion> --------------Boundary-00=_724JWY02QL8000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_724J6DS2QL8000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_724J6DS2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has anyone ever bu= ilt and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I don't think this woul= d be very hard to do but it would add some weight. I am not saying this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried it.=0D =0D Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx=0D rlspjs@dashlink.com=0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Bobby Muse=0D Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09=0D To: Tim Brown=0D Cc: Group KR NET=0D Subject: Re: KR> stick location=0D =0D I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could use a= =0D single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was=0D wrong.=0D =0D With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to stabilize=0D your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved.=0D With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all the=0D time.=0D =0D With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I=0D can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in= =0D flight with the stick in the middle.=0D =0D Bobby Muse=0D =0D Tim Brown wrote:=0D =0D > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you=0D > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it=0D > between the pilot and passenger versus between=0D > the pilot's legs.=0D >=0D > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.=0D >=0D > Tim=0D >=0D > __________________________________________________=0D > Do You Yahoo!?=0D > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.=0D > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1=0D >=0D > ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"=0D >=0D > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=0D > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D >=0D > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .=0D > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!=0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .=0D AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!=0D =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_724J6DS2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D=0A=
Netter's:  All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? = ; =20 Has anyone ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR=20 aircraft?  I don't think this would be very hard to do but it = would=20 add some weight.  I am not saying this should be done, so don'= t fry=20 me.  I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried it.
 
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: Bobby Muse
Date: Wednes= day,=20 November 28, 2001 13:45:09
To: Tim Brown
Cc: Group KR NET
Subject: Re:= KR>=20 stick location
 
I put my stick in the middle thinking that passeng= er or=20 pilot could use a
single stick and I would save a little weight.= I was=20 right and I was
wrong.

With the center stick, you will ne= ed to=20 build a arm rest to stabilize
your arm. The arm rest added back = a lot=20 of the weight that I saved.
With the center stick, you have to f= ly with=20 your right hand most all the
time.

With the stick between= your=20 legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I
can just imagine how= much=20 easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in
flight with the = stick=20 in the middle.

Bobby Muse

Tim Brown wrote:

>= ;=20 Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
> all comment= on the=20 pros and cons of placing it
> between the pilot and passenger= versus=20 between
> the pilot's legs.
>
> Fo now, I am lean= ing=20 towards the center location.
>
> Tim
>
>=20 __________________________________________________
> Do You=20 Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting,= just=20 $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo= =2Ecom/ps/info1
>
>=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------= --
>=20 To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org ,= or=20 "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscrib= e@mailinglists.org
>=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists= =2Eorg
>
>=20 See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.= com/aviation/krnet/=20 .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some o= ther=20 system!


------------------------------------------------= ---------------------
To=20 post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org ,= or=20 "reply all"

To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscrib= e@mailinglists.org=20
For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists= =2Eorg

See=20 the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.= com/aviation/krnet/=20 .
AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other=20 system!


.
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
 =20 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_724J6DS2QL8000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_724JWY02QL8000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:17:35 -0500 To: "Robert Stone" , , From: "Daniel Heath" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> stick location Message-ID: <001a01c17873$a73a6a00$bb2c5d0c@scana.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C17849.BD2FB290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BLASFEMY Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert Stone=20 To: bmuse@ev1.net ; timwbrown@yahoo.com=20 Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: KR> stick location Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has = anyone ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I = don't think this would be very hard to do but it would add some weight. = I am not saying this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just = wondering if anyone has ever tried it. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com -------Original Message------- From: Bobby Muse Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09 To: Tim Brown Cc: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> stick location I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot = could use a single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I = was wrong. With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to = stabilize your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I = saved. With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most = all the time. With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your = leg. I can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold = charts in flight with the stick in the middle. Bobby Muse Tim Brown wrote: > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > between the pilot and passenger versus between > the pilot's legs. > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just = $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > = --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply = all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at = http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other = system! = --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply = all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ = . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other = system! .=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C17849.BD2FB290-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:21:20 -0600 To: "'Daniel Heath'" , "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "Higdon, Bill" Subject: RE: KR> stick location Message-ID: <0BB09622E5DDD311992F0000D1ECDA7005CDF12F@pkcexv020.sprintspectrum.com> Bill Defreeze designed a throw over yoke, It's in the early newsletters. Bill Higdon -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:18 PM To: Robert Stone; bmuse@ev1.net; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> stick location BLASFEMY Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Stone To: bmuse@ev1.net ; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: KR> stick location Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has anyone ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I don't think this would be very hard to do but it would add some weight. I am not saying this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried it. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com -------Original Message------- From: Bobby Muse Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09 To: Tim Brown Cc: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> stick location I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could use a single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was wrong. With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to stabilize your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved. With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all the time. With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in flight with the stick in the middle. Bobby Muse Tim Brown wrote: > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > between the pilot and passenger versus between > the pilot's legs. > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! . ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:14:56 -0500 To: "Daniel Heath" , "Robert Stone" , , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> stick location Message-ID: That's like putting training wheels on a sport plane.. aka nose gear. I had a Jodel d-11 with wheels (2) and it was kinda nice cross country. Cessna 150s are OK cross country too! BLASPHEMY is too Kind. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:18 PM To: Robert Stone; bmuse@ev1.net; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> stick location BLASFEMY Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Stone To: bmuse@ev1.net ; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: KR> stick location Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has anyone ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I don't think this would be very hard to do but it would add some weight. I am not saying this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried it. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com -------Original Message------- From: Bobby Muse Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09 To: Tim Brown Cc: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> stick location I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could use a single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was wrong. With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to stabilize your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved. With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all the time. With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in flight with the stick in the middle. Bobby Muse Tim Brown wrote: > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > between the pilot and passenger versus between > the pilot's legs. > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! -------------------------------------------------------------------- - To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! . ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:14:58 -0500 To: "Higdon, Bill" , "'Daniel Heath'" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> stick location Message-ID: Even more BLASPHEMY! Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Higdon, Bill [mailto:bhigdo02@sprintspectrum.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:21 PM To: 'Daniel Heath'; 'krnet@mailinglists.org' Subject: RE: KR> stick location Bill Defreeze designed a throw over yoke, It's in the early newsletters. Bill Higdon -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:18 PM To: Robert Stone; bmuse@ev1.net; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> stick location BLASFEMY Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Stone To: bmuse@ev1.net ; timwbrown@yahoo.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: KR> stick location Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has anyone ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I don't think this would be very hard to do but it would add some weight. I am not saying this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried it. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com -------Original Message------- From: Bobby Muse Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09 To: Tim Brown Cc: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> stick location I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could use a single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was wrong. With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to stabilize your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved. With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all the time. With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your leg. I can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold charts in flight with the stick in the middle. Bobby Muse Tim Brown wrote: > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > between the pilot and passenger versus between > the pilot's legs. > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! . ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:08:21 -0500 To: , "Robert Stone" , , From: "Daniel Heath" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> stick location Message-ID: <003301c178bd$c751bf60$542b5d0c@scana.com> Well, I wouldn't want to discourage creativity...... Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" To: "Daniel Heath" ; "Robert Stone" ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: RE: KR> stick location > That's like putting training wheels on a sport plane.. aka nose gear. > > I had a Jodel d-11 with wheels (2) and it was kinda nice cross country. > Cessna 150s are OK cross country too! > > BLASPHEMY is too Kind. > > Ron Freiberger... > mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:18 PM > To: Robert Stone; bmuse@ev1.net; timwbrown@yahoo.com > Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> stick location > > > BLASFEMY > > Daniel R. Heath > > WWW.EAA242.ORG > www.JerryMahurin.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Stone > To: bmuse@ev1.net ; timwbrown@yahoo.com > Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:08 PM > Subject: Re: KR> stick location > > > Netter's: All 5 or 6 hundred, however many????????? Has anyone > ever built and installed a yoke and wheel in a KR aircraft? I don't think > this would be very hard to do but it would add some weight. I am not saying > this should be done, so don't fry me. I am just wondering if anyone has > ever tried it. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > rlspjs@dashlink.com > -------Original Message------- > > From: Bobby Muse > Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:45:09 > To: Tim Brown > Cc: Group KR NET > Subject: Re: KR> stick location > > I put my stick in the middle thinking that passenger or pilot could > use a > single stick and I would save a little weight. I was right and I was > wrong. > > With the center stick, you will need to build a arm rest to > stabilize > your arm. The arm rest added back a lot of the weight that I saved. > With the center stick, you have to fly with your right hand most all > the > time. > > With the stick between your legs, you could rest you arm on your > leg. I > can just imagine how much easier it would be to unfold and fold > charts in > flight with the stick in the middle. > > Bobby Muse > > Tim Brown wrote: > > > Having never flown "by stick" before, could you > > all comment on the pros and cons of placing it > > between the pilot and passenger versus between > > the pilot's legs. > > > > Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location. > > > > Tim > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just > $8.95/month. > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply > all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > - > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > > . > > > ____________________________________________________ > IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:01:38 -0500 To: "KRNET" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: strange file from a Netter Message-ID: I've had several strange emails lately with stange named files attached. One from johnjane@chc.net.au (John Martindale). Also strange, my reply was bounced because it interpreted thier "mail to" as _Johnjane.... <-- note the preceeding underscore. Another issue, I've seen several doubles sends, and a few blank messages. Is this just a delayed Halloween issue, or is our "service" doubling them up? I'd like to see all messages in plain text. This was my bounced message to the martindale address; My mail system blocked your attachment.. "setup.doc.scr". That's a kind of strange file name. Are you shipping viruses? I've seen several double file extensions, which Norton Antivirus blocks, and I wouldn't know what to do with a *.doc.scr anyway. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:51:43 -0800 To: , "KRNET" , From: "Stephen Glover" Subject: Re: KR> strange file from a Netter Message-ID: <001701c17870$045600e0$0200000a@Glover> A virus just came in my e-mail yesterday from a gentleman named Cleo Greenhaw, or something close to that. The virus was called (W32.badtrans.b@mm) It came as an attachment without a message. Fortunately, Norton's caught it right away. Steve Glover Rancho Santa Margarita, California ----- Original Message ----- From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" To: "KRNET" ; Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: KR> strange file from a Netter > > > I've had several strange emails lately with stange named files attached. > One from johnjane@chc.net.au (John Martindale). Also strange, my reply was > bounced because it interpreted thier "mail to" as _Johnjane.... <-- note the > preceeding underscore. Another issue, I've seen several doubles sends, and > a few blank messages. Is this just a delayed Halloween issue, or is our > "service" doubling them up? I'd like to see all messages in plain text. > > This was my bounced message to the martindale address; > My mail system blocked your attachment.. "setup.doc.scr". That's a kind of > strange file name. Are you shipping viruses? I've seen several double file > extensions, which Norton Antivirus blocks, and I wouldn't know what to do > with a *.doc.scr anyway. > > > Ron Freiberger... > mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:13:35 -0500 To: "KR Mailing Lists" From: "Sam Sayer" Subject: Ellison Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17838.65159720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In answer to flying on low fuel with the Electric pump off --- Initially my KR had two stub wing tanks and a header tank. An electric p= ump was installed to pump gas from the wing tanks to the header tank. Ho= wever, the wing tanks were never used. I only had gravity feed and many = times take offs and landings were done on this system. Several times wit= h only about six gallons of fuel on board, we flew a few laps around the = airport. Never has any problems with the Ellison on take offs or landing= with low fuel and no fuel pump. A couple of hard landings sprung the sonerai landing out of shape and th= erefore I switched over to Dan Dielh's landing gear, thereby destroying t= he two wing tanks. The fuel pump was then installed as a backup for the = gravity system. Always turned the pump off in level flight thereafter. Normally on longer flights we always used a fuel tank. P.S. my Ellison throttle body was mounted beneath the engine and oil cool= er for a good gravity feed from the tank. Sam SayerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://expl= orer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17838.65159720-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:54:14 -0500 To: "KRNET" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: FW: KR> (Virus) and double RE:RE Message-ID: Yes, same for me.. If anyone wants to send me a message, use plain text :o) Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Alex H [mailto:alex.h@att.net] Subject: Re: KR> (Virus) strange file from a Netter I have received two replies from two different netters that contained the same badtrans virus that is going around. I also have Norton antiviris that blocked it as well. Apparently it gets in through Internet Explorer. These were in response to a posting that I made and their responses had a double Re:Re in the subject line and an attachment. ___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:24:15 -0800 To: From: "Gail Dondlinger" Subject: tricycle gear Message-ID: <006e01c1787c$f0c73730$0c320918@dondlinger> First Post, I bought a partially built kit 1990 circa. It is a KR2, and about 60% complete although I may rebuild the horizontal and vertical stabilizer to utilize Dr. Deans hinges and add a little more surface area. I currently have the spring type gear from Rand. (mounted) I am a new pilot and no tail dragger experience. I plan to take lessons and acrue some hours. Even so I am still considering converting to tricycle gear. Where can I get some information on this conversion and the nose gear. The ones I saw don't look like they are steerable. I guess brakes and rudder are sufficient. I keep hearing about the many landing accidents, especially in a cross wind. I guess I just feel a little safer with a training wheel in front. I look forward to the manueverabilty in the air, though. My other option of course is to leave it alone and just finish it up and enjoy. All thats really left is the wings and canopy. And hours of finishing details........ Profile: Male 45 years old, live in Seattle (Auburn) WA, Got my pilots license 3 weeks ago. Work for Boeing and have 3 boys 17, 20, 22, and a very understanding wife. and Sam the wonder dog. We all want to enjoy the hobby. PS. I think we should get Mark L. and Ross a Christmas present for all there hard work. Thanks you guys. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:32:27 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "Gail Dondlinger" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> tricycle gear Message-ID: Finish it;go fly it. Later, you can spend time putting a slick finish on and shining it up, if that's your priority over going flying some more. A good winter project after the really good flying weather is over. I live in South Florida, so it's good ALMOST weatherall the time,especially in winter, so mine'll probably look kind of s______. Training wheel are OK, don't be embarassed. ;o) <-- mimgrin Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Gail Dondlinger [mailto:leodon1@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:24 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> tricycle gear First Post, I bought a partially built kit 1990 circa. It is a KR2, and about 60% complete although I may rebuild the horizontal and vertical stabilizer to utilize Dr. Deans hinges and add a little more surface area. I currently have the spring type gear from Rand. (mounted) I am a new pilot and no tail dragger experience. I plan to take lessons and acrue some hours. Even so I am still considering converting to tricycle gear. Where can I get some information on this conversion and the nose gear. The ones I saw don't look like they are steerable. I guess brakes and rudder are sufficient. I keep hearing about the many landing accidents, especially in a cross wind. I guess I just feel a little safer with a training wheel in front. I look forward to the manueverabilty in the air, though. My other option of course is to leave it alone and just finish it up and enjoy. All thats really left is the wings and canopy. And hours of finishing details........ Profile: Male 45 years old, live in Seattle (Auburn) WA, Got my pilots license 3 weeks ago. Work for Boeing and have 3 boys 17, 20, 22, and a very understanding wife. and Sam the wonder dog. We all want to enjoy the hobby. PS. I think we should get Mark L. and Ross a Christmas present for all there hard work. Thanks you guys. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 03:23:20 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Serge Vidal Message-ID: Serge Vidal in South Africa: I've tried emailing you regarding the 3-view drawing, but got a bounce. Please email me off the net; thanks! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:58:28 +0200 To: From: "Serge VIDAL" Subject: WARNING - Rudder Hinges Message-ID: <000e01c1789b$55af4b60$c504a8c0@sergevateint> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C178AB.A143CB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My KR got its annual inspection yesterday. The said inspection was = performed by a very serious guy, who checked everything. He snagged many trifles, but also and one serious problem that I have to = warn you about.=20 The rudder had vertical and lateral play that was excessive. It was in = the region of 1 mm each way. Enough to make the rudder wobbly. To solve the problem, I had to cut open the rudder skin, and find the = cause. The bottom part of the upper hinge (on the fin side) had a hole in = excess of 5.5mm in diameter, instead of less than 5mm for the other = holes. This was enough to cause the lateral play. The vertical play came = from bending of that same part to the bottom. That KR has flown 300 hours, and I suspect that this is wear, since the = hole is slightly oval. Both plays are probably linked, one helping the = oher to develop. To solve the problem, I have to re-drill the hole, and make a tiny = inset. LESSON 1: If the tail surfaces hinges are not perfectly adjusted, they can wear = fairly quickly LESSON 2: Once the surfaces are glazed, it is a major pain to remove the pins. It = might be a good idea to leave the skin at the top and the bottom of the = bolts, and just cover the hole with Vinyl tape (or with a thin = fiberglass layer, reinforced with Vinyl tape?). This would allow = inspection and removability. That's what I intend to do. Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C178AB.A143CB40-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:50:11 -0500 To: "Serge VIDAL" , From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> WARNING - Rudder Hinges Message-ID: <001001c178bb$3d9e5a50$542b5d0c@scana.com> Serge, Thanks for the information. What about cutting out a real neat hole where the hinge bolt goes, both at the top and bottom and leaving it open for regular inspection of not only the hinge, but also the bolt, nut and cotter pin. What rule is there that every little gap has to be closed up? Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge VIDAL" To: Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 12:58 AM Subject: KR> WARNING - Rudder Hinges My KR got its annual inspection yesterday. The said inspection was performed by a very serious guy, who checked everything. He snagged many trifles, but also and one serious problem that I have to warn you about. The rudder had vertical and lateral play that was excessive. It was in the region of 1 mm each way. Enough to make the rudder wobbly. To solve the problem, I had to cut open the rudder skin, and find the cause. The bottom part of the upper hinge (on the fin side) had a hole in excess of 5.5mm in diameter, instead of less than 5mm for the other holes. This was enough to cause the lateral play. The vertical play came from bending of that same part to the bottom. That KR has flown 300 hours, and I suspect that this is wear, since the hole is slightly oval. Both plays are probably linked, one helping the oher to develop. To solve the problem, I have to re-drill the hole, and make a tiny inset. LESSON 1: If the tail surfaces hinges are not perfectly adjusted, they can wear fairly quickly LESSON 2: Once the surfaces are glazed, it is a major pain to remove the pins. It might be a good idea to leave the skin at the top and the bottom of the bolts, and just cover the hole with Vinyl tape (or with a thin fiberglass layer, reinforced with Vinyl tape?). This would allow inspection and removability. That's what I intend to do. Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:09:59 -0800 To: From: "Gail Dondlinger" Subject: virus message Message-ID: <000b01c178a4$dbcc1800$0c320918@dondlinger> Imagine that my first post and in a reply I get a virus. No problem Norton picked it up and I also visited the MCAFEE.COM site if you go to:http://www.mcafee.com/ right on the top right ther is a big red virus alert about the bad trans virus when you clean it it is called magistr worm or something I forgot. If you don't have virus protection MCAFEE has some a free scan so does Norton. Mcafee will let you have a trial version for thirty days which will clean it out tooo. Guess how I know that? Well Thank You for all the good responses I got so far. I don't think anyone sent it deliberatley I hope. too bad about the virus, Just as a final note if you ever see wierd attachments with no data or files with double extensions like Doc.scr they are almost always bad news. ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************