From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 4 Apr 2002 14:22:19 -0000 Issue 403 Date: Thursday, April 04, 2002 6:22 AM krnet Digest 4 Apr 2002 14:22:19 -0000 Issue 403 Topics (messages 9524 through 9553): Re: I'm on the road to start! 9524 by: broe13.comcast.net 9553 by: Edwin Blocher Re: DimpleTape 9525 by: Jan Laan 9526 by: Gary Sprunger Re: Composite Gear Legs 9527 by: Darren Pond Re: Sun'n Fun-meeting place 9528 by: Tom Crawford 9533 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: Composite Gear Leg Weight 9529 by: Darren Pond Re: Further to the Composite Gear Legs 9530 by: Darren Pond Re: Digital vs. Analog Instruments 9531 by: Ron Eason KR-2 For Sail 9532 by: David Sun & Fun 9534 by: gpasc Jack's Wing 9535 by: patrick36.usfamily.net 9540 by: virgnvs.juno.com Photo 9536 by: patrick36.usfamily.net kr fuselage and spins 9537 by: Manager Bill 9548 by: Eduardo José Jankosz YOU CANNOT SEND ATTACHMENTS ON KRNET!! 9538 by: Frank Ross 9545 by: Glasco returned messages 9539 by: Philip Heavirland Tom Bagnatto's KR-1 9541 by: Myron Freeman Any experts on engines? 9542 by: Serge F. VIDAL 9546 by: Stéfan Balatchev Anyone flying a 2600cc or 2400 cc VW engine 9543 by: Myron Freeman 9544 by: Mark Langford found bush hawk 9547 by: w.g. kirkland Re: Betchan's Landing Gear 9549 by: Didactics1.aol.com Tuesday morning SNF 9550 by: Dana Overall Almost Friday!! 9551 by: Dana Overall Almost Friday 9552 by: Dana Overall Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:07:24 -0500 To: Ricky Farley From: broe13@comcast.net Cc: krnet Subject: Re: KR> I'm on the road to start! Message-id: <008201c1daab$ea1e4680$05d02c44@vineln01.nj.comcast.net> I'm on that road with you. Since it sounds like your anxious to start, I thought i'd give you my two cents. You may want to order your spruce and plywood sooner rather than later. I ordered mine from Aircraft Spruce on 3/8 and as of right now, the mahogany plywood is still on backorder. I'm not sure if other suppliers have it in stock but Aircraft Spruce's prices were good, so I went with them. Just thought I'd let you know. Bob Roe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricky Farley" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: KR> I'm on the road to start! > Now that I have finally moved into my new house (well-almost moved in-I > don't think I'll ever be fully moved in until it's time to move out), I > finally got around to ordering my plans today. I've also ordered the > plans for the new airfoil and the WAFs from Trailing Edge Technologies, > so hopefully I'll get around to ordering my spruce and plywood kits > soon. I've got to build my table now, so that should keep me busy until > I can get all the rest of the stuff in. I'm looking forward to finally > start contributing my two cents worth every now and then. > > Ricky Farley (geek92@cox-internet.com) > San Angelo TX (formally of San Antonio) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:06:39 -0600 To: , "Ricky Farley" From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: "krnet" Subject: Re: KR> I'm on the road to start! Message-ID: <001101c1dbe2$3a49ee20$8f9131cc@cyou.com> I have had good luck with AS&S on everything but wood. Wicks has had good delivery times and, I think, better quality Spruce. Prices are comparable. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Ricky Farley" Cc: "krnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:07 PM Subject: Re: KR> I'm on the road to start! > I'm on that road with you. Since it sounds like your anxious to start, I > thought i'd give you my two cents. You may want to order your spruce and > plywood sooner rather than later. I ordered mine from Aircraft Spruce on > 3/8 and as of right now, the mahogany plywood is still on backorder. I'm > not sure if other suppliers have it in stock but Aircraft Spruce's prices > were good, so I went with them. Just thought I'd let you know. > > Bob Roe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ricky Farley" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:10 AM > Subject: KR> I'm on the road to start! > > > > Now that I have finally moved into my new house (well-almost moved in-I > > don't think I'll ever be fully moved in until it's time to move out), I > > finally got around to ordering my plans today. I've also ordered the > > plans for the new airfoil and the WAFs from Trailing Edge Technologies, > > so hopefully I'll get around to ordering my spruce and plywood kits > > soon. I've got to build my table now, so that should keep me busy until > > I can get all the rest of the stuff in. I'm looking forward to finally > > start contributing my two cents worth every now and then. > > > > Ricky Farley (geek92@cox-internet.com) > > San Angelo TX (formally of San Antonio) > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:47:30 -0800 To: rick dechau <1972@frontiernet.net>, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Jan Laan Cc: Richard Dechau <1972@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: KR> DimpleTape Message-id: <0GTY00MT7YCPY5@l-daemon> I just wonder whether a 1/2 to 1 inch wide strip of gritty paint, judiciously applied, wouldn,t do exactly the same as the dimple tape. For a lot less money. Marine deck or sundeck paint comes to mind, or make up your own from finish apint and some .015 grit or whatever works. And if it doesn't have the desired effect; sand it off again. Jan At 10:06 PM 4/1/02 -0500, rick dechau wrote: >This is not an April fools joke. This is old technology that you have just >heard about.I have used it on my hydro plane and it does make a difference. >The stop watch tell the truth. But it is not cheep. F1 flying guys use it >boat racers and bike guys. It is great stuff. Every Kt. or MPH counts. RICK > > http://www.dimpletape.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:00:15 -0700 To: "Jan Laan" , "rick dechau" <1972@frontiernet.net>, From: "Gary Sprunger" Subject: Re: KR> DimpleTape Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1DA78.A01A66A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does this mean that all those spam can's with "light" hail damage will go= up even more in value? (KR2 N5633F) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Laan Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:56 PM To: rick dechau; krnet@mailinglists.org Cc: Richard Dechau Subject: Re: KR> DimpleTape I just wonder whether a 1/2 to 1 inch wide strip of gritty paint, judiciously applied, wouldn,t do exactly the same as the dimple tape. For a lot less money. Marine deck or sundeck paint comes to mind, or make up your own from finish apint and some .015 grit or whatever works. And if it doesn't have the desired effect; sand it off again. Jan At 10:06 PM 4/1/02 -0500, rick dechau wrote: >This is not an April fools joke. This is old technology that you have ju= st >heard about.I have used it on my hydro plane and it does make a differen= ce. >The stop watch tell the truth. But it is not cheep. F1 flying guys use i= t >boat racers and bike guys. It is great stuff. Every Kt. or MPH counts. R= ICK > > http://www.dimpletape.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1DA78.A01A66A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:11:35 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Fw: KR> Composite Gear Legs Message-ID: <007501c1dace$079359e0$5f047218@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Johnson To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: KR> Composite Gear Legs Sometime ago I reported that I had a set of composite leaf springs from a Chev Safari van that I was going to do a load/displacement test on. I've finally completed it, and the info is as follows: The spring as it is removed from the vehicle is 54" straight line from pivot point to pivot point, at that length the curve displacement is 5" measured at the center pin (the point the axle attaches) which is located 30" from one end, measuring along the curved spring. The dimensions are as follows: At the pivot point furthest from the center pin - 3 3/8" wide x 3/4" thick. The spring runs a straight taper for 19" to 3 3/16" x 11/16". From there it smoothly tapers to 2 3/4" x 13/16" at the center pin (yes, it's thicker, and the the width is a constant 2 3/4" in way of the axle attach point). I cut my springs down to 29 1/2" measured along the curve (1/2" away from the center pin), and ground the narrow end down to 2 1/2" x 11/16". The curve discplacement is now 1 1/4" measured 17 3/4" away from the large end of the spring. To complete the load/discplacement test I clamped the spring in a horizontal position with 10" fixed to a base. The 'fixed' end was held down by one clamp at the end, and another clamp at ten inches which was not really tight to allow for some flex in the spring. A number of weights were suspended 1 1/2" from the small end, and the deflection measured at the very end of the spring. This test method did not simulate the installation in the aircraft, but I adjusted the values to equate to a 45 degree installation angle, and compensated also for the additional length of the axle and tire. The figures below were also adjusted to include the increasing horizontal moment caused by the leaf spring 'flattening out' as it would on the plane when a load were applied. The load/displacement figures, adjusted to match the actual installation in the aircraft are as follows: at 320 lbs at the wheel centerline, the tire vertical discplacement is 2 5/8" at 610 lbs, the tire vertical discplacement is 4 7/16" at 697 lbs, 5 1/8" at 895 lbs, 6 7/16" at 1132 lbs, 8 1/4" I graphed the spring curve after completing all the adjusting calculations and was very suprised to find that the curve was as close to a straight line as five guys hanging on swings could be expected to get it! Because of the line straightness I deduced that the spring was probably not near it's rupture strength, and I assumed that I could extrapolate the line to reasonably determine what load would be required to displace the tire 10" as it would be on the aircraft (I have 10" maximum clearance between my tire and wing). At an EXTRAPOLATED 10" displacement, the equivalent vertical load is 1390 lbs. To put this in perspective.... 1390 lbs and 10" vertical tire displacement is the equivalent of the aircraft experiencing a 2780 lb landing force, or, if your aircraft weighs in at 1000 lbs gross, this is the equivalent of a 2.78 G landing force. If your aircraft weighs in at 1200 lbs gross, this is the equivalent of a 2.3 G landing force. These figures represent all landing loads being applied to the main wheels only. The main landing gear on certified aircraft are required to be designed to an equivalent 3.8 G landing force. If you've read any info on landing gear design and operation etc in the light homebuilt field, you've probably read that most light homebuilt landing gear are not designed for 3.8 G's, and you know that most light homebuilts are not pancaking on landing. In a nutshell, what all this means is that I am going to use the cut down Safari composite leaf springs on my airplane and I'm going to feel quite confident doing so. If you're going to be removing the springs from a van, here are a couple of hints; WEAR GLOVES, THICK GLOVES! These leaf springs are made up of longitudinally run fibers, and during normal operation some of the top fibers seperate. You DO NOT WANT TO GET ONE OF THESE FIBERS STUCK IN YOU!!!! WEAR A FACEPLATE and ue a small angle grinder to cut away the u-bolts and hangers etc attaching the springs to the vehicle. MAKE SURE THE VEHICLE IS PROPERLY LIFTED AND BRACED ON THE CHASSIS BEFORE YOU BEGIN REMOVING WHAT NORMALLY HOLDS THE VEHICLE UP!!!! Take the leaf springs to a car wash and clean them up some. I used a wide chisel to remove the rubber and stainless pads that are on the leaf, and a large angle grinder to clean the glue off. I also used a crape rubber block to keep the 36G sanding disk clean. I then carefully ground the leaf down to a uniform thickness from it's original center pin thickness, and carefully ground the corners to an approx. 1/8" radius. To make the spring safer to handle, and to improve it's 'weatherability', I'm going to use the vacuumless bagging technique to wrap a couple of layers of 6 oz BID around the legs at 45 degrees. The BID will make it safer to handle, and allow a finish to be applied to it. In the condition that my leafs were in as they came from the van, they couldn't safely be handled nor was there anyway that they could ever have a finish applied to them. If anyone would like to discuss the above further, please contact me at...... mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca PS, I paid $30 CDN for the pair of them ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:36:07 -0500 To: Dana Overall From: Tom Crawford CC: virgnvs@juno.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Sun'n Fun-meeting place Message-ID: <3CAA6A97.3865@ufl.edu> Dana Overall wrote: > > So it's on. Sunday, 1300 at Tom's KR in the homebuilt section (if he can > make it). > Let the good times roll!!!!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > http://rvflying.tripod.com > Dana, Thanks for the invite! At this point, I am pretty sure that I will be flying to S&F on Sunday sometime before noon. Plan to fly out after the airshow. Hope to see a big KR crowd. Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Flying N???TC Fuse Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:58:02 -0500 To: toys@ufl.edu From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: bo124rs@hotmail.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Sun'n Fun-meeting place Message-ID: <20020402.221609.-166693.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Sorry guys, Jeannette called and said that she would not be there., Virg On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:36:07 -0500 Tom Crawford writes: > Dana Overall wrote: > > > > > So it's on. Sunday, 1300 at Tom's KR in the homebuilt section (if > he can > > make it). > > Let the good times roll!!!!! > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY > > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > > http://rvflying.tripod.com > > > > Dana, > > Thanks for the invite! At this point, I am pretty sure that I will > be > flying to S&F on Sunday sometime before noon. Plan to fly out after > the > airshow. Hope to see a big KR crowd. > > > Tom Crawford > Gainesville, FL > N262TC Flying > N???TC Fuse > Mailto:toys@ufl.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:11:53 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Fw: KR> Composite Gear Leg Weight Message-ID: <007a01c1dace$122642a0$5f047218@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Johnson To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 9:47 PM Subject: KR> Composite Gear Leg Weight Further to my earlier submission, the gear legs as they have been cut, radiused, and sanded are 4 1/4 lbs each. mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:12:07 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Fw: KR> Further to the Composite Gear Legs Message-ID: <007f01c1dace$1a02e500$5f047218@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Johnson To: Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:10 AM Subject: KR> Further to the Composite Gear Legs Richard Parker asked for clarification regarding design requirements for landing gear. When a landing gear system is designed for a certain imposed landing load, the loading is assumed to be a TOTAL imposition acting on the ENTIRE landing gear system. Each main gear leg would carry ALMOST half of this total imposed landing load. The tailwheel must be designed for a minumum amount, and of course a nose wheel must be designed for more loading. The loads taken by the nose or tail wheel are assumed to be removed from the load the main wheels will have to accept. It is not out of place though to assume that the tail or nose wheel will not impact the ground before the mains do, so it's not bad practise to design the entire main landing system to accept all the load. With this assumption, each individual gear leg would be designed to carry HALF of the total imposed landing load. In the case of a 2G landing with a 1000 lb aircraft, this would mean that each leg would carry 1000 lbs total imposed landing load. With regards to my testing, at 1390 lbs load required to discplace the tire 10", this is 1390 lbs applied to ONE leg, this means that 2780 is being applied to the complete main wheel landing gear system. At a gross weight of 1200 lbs on a KR, this means that 2780/1200 = 2.3 G landing gear design capability. Hope this helps, and I hope that I haven't muddied the waters. If anyone would like to discuss this further, please contact me... mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:00:15 -0600 To: "Seifert, Richard E" , "'KRnet'" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Digital vs. Analog Instruments Message-ID: <006d01c1dabb$ae4ce8e0$8bdb1f41@Administration> Or you can use a HUD which shows Air Speed and alarms engine and battery conditions. I have one available, but don't use it to replace good accurate instruments. E-mail me if interested. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seifert, Richard E" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: KR> Digital vs. Analog Instruments > For those KR builders thinking about instruments. Try a little experiment. > We all know a good pilot should spend most of his time looking out the > window at the horizon and for other planes unless he is in instrument > conditions. The analog instrument if properly selected will be calibrated > with a green arch in the 10 o'clock to 1 o'clock position. The purpose of > the arch is aid instrument scanning. If your engine instruments are > properly positioned and marked a one second scan of all engine instruments > is sufficient. A one second scan will tell you if you have problem. Try > scanning your digital instruments. First you have to read the digits, then > you have to recall the acceptable range for that engine parameter, and then > determine if the indication is within that range. You will find that > scanning a set of digital instrument takes much longer and your eyes and > mind will spend much more time in the cockpit instead of outside looking for > traffic. > If you really want digital instruments try investing in an engine > management system instead. Look at EMS systems that are programmable and > let the system scan the readings for you. These systems cost much more but > do reduce pilot workload because the pilot can ignore the system until the > system detects a engine parameter outside the limits you programmed in. > These systems are great if you trust electrons. I personally don't trust > anything I can't see and only half of what I do see. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:17:42 -0800 To: From: "David" Subject: KR-2 For Sail Message-ID: <000e01c1dabe$1f3fc980$47c1fc9e@david> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1DA7B.0FDDA0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1985 KR-2 for sail in Northern California, message for details, plane = has low hours and is ready to fly home. Dave avstar1@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1DA7B.0FDDA0E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:10:38 +0000 To: From: gpasc Subject: Sun & Fun Message-ID: Hey Guys! Sun & Fun is just around the corner and everyone is getting packed and ready to head down. Please join us for the FREE BBQ on Monday evening (6 pm). It is in the Engine Building Forum Tent. You can stop by to find out directions in our booth in Building A. We need the KR people there!!!! I talked to Mrs Rand this week and she was sorry she wasn't going to make it to S&F, but has reservation for the KR Gathering in Red Oak already! The KR Forum is Tuesday & so is the KR Dinner. So now, you have a KR get together on Sunday (with the groupee), the Great Plains BBQ on Monday and two fun filled events on Tuesday. Who has something lined up for Wednesday? Linda Bennett Great Plains Wife of KR1 1/2 Owner/Pilot!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:55:21 -0800 To: From: Subject: Jack's Wing Message-ID: <02fe01c1db1f$94322d30$cec13641@cg.extranet.microsoft.com> ------=_NextPart_000_02FF_01C1DADC.860EED30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here to view You're invited to view my album, KR2 , on MSN Photos! This is the right wing from the KR2 that crashed into a tree while attempting a go-around, at Linden, NC Flyers Airpark. Jack Cooper is rebuilding both wings to use on his KR2. The left one is in his shop and just about finished. Looking good. Jack's wife, Sandy, says that this wing looks even better than the left one when he got it. I hope that this photo will attatch itself to this email and not need a link to view it. Pat Driscoll _____ Capture the memory! You can order Fujicolor prints or create personalized photo gifts, if the sender gave you permission. Share your own photos On MSN Photos, it's easy to share your photos online. To get started, click here. _____ Please do not forward this e-mail without the sender's permission. If you're having problems connecting to the site when you click the links above, copy the address below and paste it into your Web browser. http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTTSE5d78XeU 2E8qvQELOsVPiUXFJsMkyY2BOZNGlFHwxi1FvkiJftWjUJ7smfsy5D6Hr!398YdJGEOCCgDl RiDE$ ------=_NextPart_000_02FF_01C1DADC.860EED30-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:18:15 -0500 To: patrick36@usfamily.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Jack's Wing Message-ID: <20020403.142227.-126727.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Spanish was bad enough, Virg On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:55:21 -0800 writes: > > > > > U2E8qvQELOsVPiUXFJsMkyY2BOZNGlFHwxi1FvkiJftWjUJ7smfsy5D6Hr!398YdJGEOCCgD > lRiDE$> > Click here > U2E8qvQELOsVPiUXFJsMkyY2BOZNGlFHwxi1FvkiJftWjUJ7smfsy5D6Hr!398YdJGEOCCgD > lRiDE$> to view > > > > > You're invited to view my album, > KR2 > U2E8qvQELOsVPiUXFJsMkyY2BOZNGlFHwxi1FvkiJftWjUJ7smfsy5D6Hr!398YdJGEOCCgD > lRiDE$> , on MSN Photos! > > This is the right wing from the KR2 that crashed into a tree while > attempting a go-around, at Linden, NC Flyers Airpark. Jack Cooper > is > rebuilding both wings to use on his KR2. The left one is in his shop > and > just about finished. Looking good. Jack's wife, Sandy, says that > this > wing looks even better than the left one when he got it. > I hope that this photo will attatch itself to this email and not > need a > link to view it. > Pat Driscoll > > _____ > > Capture the memory! You can order Fujicolor prints or create > personalized photo gifts, if the sender gave you permission. > > Share your own photos > On MSN Photos, it's easy to share your photos online. To get > started, > click here. > _____ > > Please do not forward this e-mail without the sender's permission. > > > If you're having problems connecting to the site when you click the > links above, copy the address below and paste it into your Web > browser. > > http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTTSE5d78XeU > 2E8qvQELOsVPiUXFJsMkyY2BOZNGlFHwxi1FvkiJftWjUJ7smfsy5D6Hr!398YdJGEOCCgDl > RiDE$ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:54:41 -0600 To: "KR Net Mail" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Subject: Photo Message-ID: <000d01c1db27$e16848c0$03dc6843@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1DAF5.93343740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about the photo. I can't get it to come up either. When I send = these photos to my sister she gets a thumbnail photo at the bottom of = the email message and just clicks on it to enlarge it for viewing. I = guess the KR net won't let something like that through. I'm working on a website so when I learn enough about it, I'll have a = short URL to get you there. Pat Driscoll=20 ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1DAF5.93343740-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:19:07 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Manager Bill Subject: kr fuselage and spins Message-ID: <3CAB3989.A48FE804@nm.net> On March 27, Eduardo Jankosz wrote: But.........an expert in KR here in Brasil, told me that is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!! He told that is dangerous, because a plane with a rounded fuselage, can not recuperate easily of a spin , like a square fuselage plane! Principally the KR, that has a poor tail!!!!!!! He told me that the plane would must have a T tail, or a more efficient rudder that KR has! What do you have to tell me about? Thanks!!!! Eduardo José Jankosz jankosz@bsi.com.br http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb Curitiba - PR - BRASIL Eduardo, I think your “expert” is wrong. While aft fuselage cross section is probably an influence on spin recovery, it is at best a second order influence. Vertical tail size and placement relative to the horizontal tail are far more important. Further, I could make an argument that the airflow around a rounded contour is more regular and steady than that around a squared-edge contour. An airplane spins because the part of its wing nearest the center of the spin is stalled, while the part of its wing at the outside of the spin is not stalled. The higher drag of the stalled wing pulls the airplane around and around, and the stalled condition causes the lift to be less than the weight, so the airplane falls to the ground. The sideward lift of the vertical tail opposes the drag of the stalled wing, and when the rudder is turned against the spin, the increase in sideward lift stops the turning moment. This usually causes the outside wing to stall also, so now all that is required is to recover from the stall by pushing the nose further down to decrease the angle of attack, then recover from the dive. Note that if the horizontal tail is far forward of the vertical tail, it will interfere with the airflow over the fin and rudder at high angle of attack and cause it to lose lift. Result: an uncontrollable spin. Another way to recover from the spin is to stall the outside wing with a spoiler. Al Mooney tried this in 1930 (see Gordon Baxter’s book, The Al Mooney Story) and it worked beautifully, but nobody seems to have followed up on the idea since. Note to Mark Langford: The split flap with its leading edge moved back like you noticed on the airliner seat back tray is called a Zap Flap, and was invented sometime in the 1930s. Check Hoerner’s book, Fluid Dynamic Lift, Sec 5-1. Maybe the seat designer copied the Zap flap instead of the reverse. Bill Marcy Reading the list always but just getting back to commenting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:55:20 -0300 To: "Manager Bill" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_Jos=E9_Jankosz?=" Cc: "krnet" Subject: Re: KR> kr fuselage and spins Message-Id: <200204041105.g34B5NU11735@cwbone.bsi.com.br> Hi, Bill Marcy and all! Excellent commentary, Bill! But, what my "expert" told me, maybe I don't expressed good for you, when I said that KR has a "poor tail"! Excuse me all, please! What he said for me, is wrote below: Yours words : <<<" A plane with rounded fuselage get more rotational velocity in a spin, because a tube make less drag that a plane plaque. If has more rotation, will must had a "more efficient"rudder to recuperate of the spin. The KR already has the rudder bad positioned for recuperate spins, because the horizontal stabilizer's "shadow" will cover much the rudder, in an eventual spin!>>>> By the way, speaking about this, how is the comportment's KR in a spin? Bill, we will wait ever yours wise explanations!!!!! Regards!!!!!! Eduardo José Jankosz jankosz@bsi.com.br http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2-brasil Curitiba - PR - BRASIL > Eduardo, I think your “expert” is wrong. While aft fuselage cross > section is probably an influence on spin recovery, it is at best a > second order influence. Vertical tail size and placement relative to the > horizontal tail are far more important. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:41:23 -0800 (PST) To: Patrick Driscoll , KR Net Mail From: Frank Ross Subject: YOU CANNOT SEND ATTACHMENTS ON KRNET!! Message-ID: <20020403174123.6349.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Pat, Others, You cannot send photos or other attachments through krnet. This is a feature to PROTECT us against VIRUSES. Even if you COULD send an attachment, anyone with any sense would at least scan it with a virus screenig program to protect their computer, or DELETE it without opening if they could not scan it. This week I have had three messages with attachments that had VIRUS in them. ALL of these were set up so that you COULD NOT scan them before opening them. I deleted them before opening them. If you get a message from someone, even if you recognize the name, and it has an attachment with an EXE ending, like "Yougottaseethis.EXE" DELETE IT!!! Sure, I miss a few dumb jokes, but I am still using my computer. If you want to share photos, send them to someone (put them on a disk) with a web site who can include them on their web site. That way no one gets a VIRUS and we all get to see the photos. Thanks, Frank, on the way out the door from San Antonio, TX to Sun n Fun. --- Patrick Driscoll wrote: > Sorry about the photo. I can't get it to come up > either. When I send these photos to my sister she > gets a thumbnail photo at the bottom of the email > message and just clicks on it to enlarge it for > viewing. I guess the KR net won't let something like > that through. > I'm working on a website so when I learn enough > about it, I'll have a short URL to get you there. > Pat Driscoll __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:14:49 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Glasco Subject: Re: KR> YOU CANNOT SEND ATTACHMENTS ON KRNET!! Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020403201449.0081dd20@mail.ridgenet.net> Also, if you use Outlook for your mail program turn off the preview feature for every mailbox. Some virus will be activated by the preview option and then it is to late to delete the file. Brad At 09:41 AM 4/3/02 -0800, you wrote: >Pat, Others, >You cannot send photos or other attachments through >krnet. This is a feature to PROTECT us against >VIRUSES. >This week I have had three messages with attachments >that had VIRUS in them. ALL of these were set up so >that you COULD NOT scan them before opening them. I >deleted them before opening them. If you get a message >from someone, even if you recognize the name, and it >has an attachment with an EXE ending, like >"Yougottaseethis.EXE" >DELETE IT!!! >> Pat Driscoll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:13:17 -0800 To: From: "Philip Heavirland" Subject: returned messages Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DB00.8E0A30C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recieve all the messages,I don't know what else to say.Get more from th= e Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DB00.8E0A30C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:16:26 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Myron Freeman" Subject: Tom Bagnatto's KR-1 Message-ID: <004401c1db54$d1a56da0$f009550c@net> ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C1DB2A.E7F6B8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys; Say does anybody out there know Tom Bagnatto's e-mail address? He was at the 1997 Perry, OK. KR gathering. I would like to get in touch with him about his KR-1. Thanks, Torquer. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C1DB2A.E7F6B8E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 04:04:21 +0200 To: From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: Any experts on engines? Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1DB8D.CCDD2040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My boss asked me to make a survey of the various certified piston engines in the market, with power between 100 hp and 150 hp. I know of the following manufacturers: - Lycoming - Continental - Rotax - Jabiru - JPX Does anybody know other manufacturers? Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1DB8D.CCDD2040-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:27:56 +0200 To: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9fan_Balatchev?= Subject: Re: KR> Any experts on engines? Message-ID: <003601c1db99$7a7d5d40$3eb2fcc1@rn1kk> There is a certified Turbodiesel engine of 135 hp, see www.thielert.com Try also Franklin, Limbach and Walter LOM. The Jabiru are not certified engines. The most powerful JPX is 85 hp. Stéfan Balatchev, mailto:Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: Serge F. VIDAL To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 4:04 AM Subject: KR> Any experts on engines? > My boss asked me to make a survey of the various certified piston engines in > the market, with power between 100 hp and 150 hp. > > I know of the following manufacturers: > > - Lycoming > - Continental > - Rotax > - Jabiru > - JPX > > Does anybody know other manufacturers? > > Serge VIDAL > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:07:36 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Myron Freeman" Subject: Anyone flying a 2600cc or 2400 cc VW engine Message-ID: <001701c1db7d$7e0c1300$f009550c@net> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1DB53.948E3240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys; I need to buy a new prop and I would like to get in touch with anyone = who is flying a 2400cc or 2600cc VW type 4 engine. I know Tom Bagnatto has one in his KR-1 but I don't know how to get in = touch with him. Anyone else that has one or knows of someone who has one please give me = a heads up. Thanks, Torquer. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1DB53.948E3240-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:53:06 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Anyone flying a 2600cc or 2400 cc VW engine Message-ID: <000d01c1db83$dbc60130$7600a8c0@athlon600> See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/props.html for what props several guys are running on their KRs. This isn't really a "database", but if somebody wants to take it over and gather information and put it into a real database, it won't break my heart. I'll be glad to publish it when you're done... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:22:22 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: found bush hawk Message-ID: <000801c1dba1$288e0c20$70b45bd1@utboopki> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1DB77.2BE1E420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This really isn't KR stuff but if you are visiting sun'nfun have a look = at the new Found "Bush Hawk". Looks a bit like a 180. It's a new = Canadian bushplane built right here at the airport in Parry Sound , Ont. = It isn't anything spectacular until you look at the price tag. = (relativelt inexpensive). It is really rugged with a square tube frame. = Common components and field repairable. A Ford truck with wings! It can = carry two full drums of fuell, just roll them in, and room enough to = pack out four empties. Cantaliver wing so it can get right up to the = dock when on floats. I had a bit part in getting them started as I was on the airport = commission when we built the hanger that they are currently leasing. = Some people didn't believe we should help private industry. They don't build beavers and otters anymore but this thing, as a bush = plane, should become a Canadian ICON. Just a bit proud of it. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1DB77.2BE1E420-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 06:33:26 EST To: NFCKR3@aol.com From: Didactics1@aol.com CC: jrobinson@siliconelms.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Fwd: Betchan's Landing Gear Message-ID: <14d.bae8dd2.29dd9406@aol.com> --part1_14d.bae8dd2.29dd9406_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/2/02 9:12:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << Subj: Re: Betchan's Landing Gear Date: 4/2/02 9:12:31 AM Eastern Standard Time From: langford@hiwaay.net (Mark Langford) To: Didactics1@aol.com Steve, I don't know that I have any pictures either, but I'll look tonight. You might ask on KRnet. Several people have threatened to build that gear over the years, and some may have documented it somewhat at one of the Gatherings. Now that Skip has hauled it off to Maine, we may never see it again. Why don't you get him to take some good close up photos of it with a tape measure in the picture? That would get you started anyway... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Fwd: Betchan's Landing Gear > Mark, > > I'm building a KR-2S with your "undimpled" airfoil, dihedral beginning at C/L > of fuselage. (Trying to incorporate many of the ideas and comments from the > KRnet that I've been listening in on). My brother and I are going to be > trying out Don Betchan's motorcycle front fork retractable landing gear. > > Spoke with him and he mentioned Skip has his plane but he didn't keep any > drawings or notes. Now Skip suggests I try to locate some photos he took > earlier and put on the KRnet. > > Any suggestions where I might look? I'm no great surfer and eventually have > trouble using the glib WEB addresses that guys give out. Thanks for your > help. > > Steve Robinson > Deerfield, NH > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-st11.mail.aol.com (rly-st11.mail.aol.com [172.20.114.200]) by air-xa02.mail.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXA24-0402091231; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:12:31 -0500 Received: from rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.73]) by rly-st11.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA14199 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.hiwaay.net [208.147.154.56]) by rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA44-0402091114; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:11:14 -0500 Received: from mlangford (blue.tbe.com [192.88.93.254]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g32EB9Yd189497 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:11:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001801c1da50$5b6d1980$5f0ca58c@mlangford> From: "Mark Langford" To: References: Subject: Re: Betchan's Landing Gear Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:11:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >> Dear Skip, I asked Mark Langford about your photos being somewhere on the KRnet. Here is his response. By copy of this E-Mail, I'm following his advice and asking anyone on the KRnet who may know the location of your photos. Meantime, I noticed his comment about you being located in next door Maine. Would it be possible for me to drive over and take some photos? Or failing that, is your buyer located nearby, so that I could arrange to visit him? Like to ask several questions, as well, if we could meet. Steve Robinson 1-603-463-9980 Deerfield, NH --part1_14d.bae8dd2.29dd9406_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-st11.mail.aol.com (rly-st11.mail.aol.com [172.20.114.200]) by air-xa02.mail.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXA24-0402091231; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:12:31 -0500 Received: from rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.73]) by rly-st11.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA14199 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.hiwaay.net [208.147.154.56]) by rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA44-0402091114; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:11:14 -0500 Received: from mlangford (blue.tbe.com [192.88.93.254]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g32EB9Yd189497 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:11:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001801c1da50$5b6d1980$5f0ca58c@mlangford> From: "Mark Langford" To: References: Subject: Re: Betchan's Landing Gear Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:11:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Steve, I don't know that I have any pictures either, but I'll look tonight. You might ask on KRnet. Several people have threatened to build that gear over the years, and some may have documented it somewhat at one of the Gatherings. Now that Skip has hauled it off to Maine, we may never see it again. Why don't you get him to take some good close up photos of it with a tape measure in the picture? That would get you started anyway... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Fwd: Betchan's Landing Gear > Mark, > > I'm building a KR-2S with your "undimpled" airfoil, dihedral beginning at C/L > of fuselage. (Trying to incorporate many of the ideas and comments from the > KRnet that I've been listening in on). My brother and I are going to be > trying out Don Betchan's motorcycle front fork retractable landing gear. > > Spoke with him and he mentioned Skip has his plane but he didn't keep any > drawings or notes. Now Skip suggests I try to locate some photos he took > earlier and put on the KRnet. > > Any suggestions where I might look? I'm no great surfer and eventually have > trouble using the glib WEB addresses that guys give out. Thanks for your > help. > > Steve Robinson > Deerfield, NH > --part1_14d.bae8dd2.29dd9406_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 07:04:54 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Tuesday morning SNF Message-ID: Sooooo, what the hel%$#% is up with KR forum on Tuesday morning, since RR will not be at SNF? Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 06:57:44 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Almost Friday!! Message-ID: I know, I know it's not Friday (I will be airborne Friday lettin someone else do the flying) and it's not KR but I'm off the epoxy buzz and feeling pretty good, so here it is. Off to SNF The latest, maybe not the greatest but it's the best I got: http://rvflying.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ruddervs.jpg I'm already making airplane noises again. The address is a little long, so you may have to cut and paste. If we all would have been smart, we would have invested in cleco and rivet manufacturing several years ago. We would have made a ton:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 07:14:59 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Almost Friday Message-ID: I know, I know, it's not Friday (I'll be airborne letting someone else do the flying Friday) and it's not KR but what the heck, I'm off the epoxy buzz and feelin pretty darn good:-) Here's the lastest, maybe not the greatest, but it's the best I got: http://rvflying.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ruddervs.jpg The address is a little long so you may have to cut and paste. If we all would have been smart, we would have invested in cleco and rivet manufacturing a couple years ago........but then again, if a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bump his as# everytime he jumped:-) See everyone Sunday 1300 at Tom Crawford's KR and Monday evening at Steve's cookout. As Jimmy Buffett would say, "I'm off to see the lizard" Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com (If you get two of these messages, sorry but I don't think I typed the address in correctly the first time) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************