From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 26 Apr 2002 01:15:53 -0000 Issue 415 Date: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:16 PM krnet Digest 26 Apr 2002 01:15:53 -0000 Issue 415 Topics (messages 9800 through 9815): Re: laying glass 9800 by: Ron Eason 9801 by: Mark Langford 9802 by: Jerry . charter.net 9803 by: James E. Lanier 9810 by: virgnvs.juno.com KRNet Servo Group Purchase - Last call 9804 by: Rick Peel - Ply 9805 by: Phillip Matheson 9806 by: Philip Maley 9807 by: Steven Eberhart 9808 by: Dana Overall Re: correction to a couple of flight squawks 9809 by: Frank Ross ELT mount 9811 by: Rick Human 9815 by: Daniel Heath joe horton's kr2 9812 by: RICK WILSON 9813 by: RICK WILSON WW Video 9814 by: ROBERT COOPER Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:06:55 -0500 To: "James E. Lanier" , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> laying glass Message-ID: <002601c1eb2c$59b53220$31631e41@Administration> Jim, I use peel-ply cloth which make the final finishing very easy. I buy the cloth from a fabric supply shop. It's not treated but it works, it less expensive and more available. I have not followed the convention of using micro spheres as a base over the foam while applying glass cloth. I use micro spheres as a filler sometimes. I sand the foam [Urethane] to the contours necessary. I use aeropoxy light filler first over the foam until it is finished and filled to the point it is ready to paint [ all unevenness is filled and the surface is contoured]. Why?? Because you will not have to fill and sand over the glass cloth as much or fill uneven imperfections and run the risk of sanding into the cloth. Mix the epoxy weight to match the cloth weight. I usually lay the dry cloth over the surface and roller or brush the resin into it. You can use the plastic film method to transfer the cloth also. Then place the peel ply cloth over that, and roller or brush the peel ply. Here's what happens. Explanation: The glass cloth is lighter than the epoxy [less specific gravity, it floats on the resin]. When you place the peel-ply over the glass cloth after saturating the cloth with epoxy, the epoxy is drawn up thru the glass cloth by capillary action and the glass cloth sinks to the finished aeropoxy surface. The epoxy fills the cloth pattern and makes the fine finish. This method pulls the finishing forward to just after the foam sanding. When the filling is finished you are closer to being done than waiting until after the final glass cloth is applied and then filling and sanding. Like my daddy said, finishing first then sand and paint. [ A quote from my past when I was repairing autos and building custom cars, and repairing 1954 to 1961 vetts to send myself through collage]. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Lanier" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: KR> laying glass As you may recall, I have been giving myself a crash course in fiberglassing. One thing I have discovered... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:26:34 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> laying glass Message-ID: <014901c1eb2f$12e67d10$0100a8c0@TD310> James E. Lanier wrote: I can only say that the vast majority of the layup world uses plastic squeegees, and there must be a reason for it. Rollers tend to pick the glass back up, and after you pull the plastic off, the glass gets pulled back up again. Then you have to squeegee it again into full contact, and getting rid of any air bubbles. And if you don't squeegee it away, trapped air bubbles and excess epoxy would seem a certainty. There are two pretty good descriptions of how I do my layups at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmlfd.html , once near the top, and once near the bottom. Another description lurks at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/swings.html , near the bottom, if you have a pretty fast internet connection. I realize that everybody has they're favorite method, but for me, it's hard to beat carefully sanding the foam to perfection, vacuuming it, wetting out the glass, microing the surface, and squeegeeing the glass into contact, and calling it done, all in one operation. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:33:03 -0700 To: "James E. Lanier" , From: "Jerry @ charter.net" Subject: Re: KR> laying glass Message-ID: <002a01c1eb51$81377c20$551af118@oldmyrddin> Jim, If you have to use a roller, there is an all metal roller with ridges around the roller made especially for resin application to fiberglass.... That eleminates having to use any kind of wax paper or plastic. Personally I prefer to use a squeege to spread the resin. Be sure that you are using micro slurry on the foam before applying glass and resin. The slurry will prevent the foam from sucking all the resin out of the glass..... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Lanier" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: Re: KR> laying glass > I just tried again with no wax. It works well also if you remove the plastic > shortly after application. > The main thing is, working with a roller does not work unlesss you > insulate it from the surface. I feel that a roller is required if you wish > to thoroughly press the material to the surface and remove bubbles. > . > > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "larry flesner" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:25 PM > Subject: Re: KR> laying glass > > > > > > >But...if you take wax covered plastic and lay it over the surface and use > > a roller..well it works. > > >Jim > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > +++++= > > > > Jim, > > > > I'm no glass expert but I'd be careful of putting anything with wax > > on the surface. It could cause you problems with future lay-ups > > or primer, paint, etc. The tool that worked best for me was the > > 6 inch squeege from Wicks. Hold at about a 45 degree angle and > > apply enough pressure to move the resin but not move the cloth. > > If you apply too much pressure the glass will look "prickly" in the > > area you just covered. Too little pressure and you leave too much > > resin on the glass and it will look shiney. The right amount of pressure > > will wet the glass with no holes between the weave and you should > > see the weave pattern of the glass. That gets filled with filler > > later. Filler is much lighter than filling the weave with resin. > > Covering the heavy glass with the light deck cloth while it was > > still wet also worked well for me and saved a lot of fill. > > You will get the technique after just a few minutes. I used one > > inch throw-away brushes for small areas and to finish up the > > job. I scratch built both wings as a one man operation with no > > problems. Have your glass all cut and laid in place before you start > > mixing resin. Just fold back the overlap of pieces you're not > > working on. I also sealed my foam and let it cure before laying > > up my glass but that is another topic entirely. Good luck. > > > > I'm finishing up my cooling baffles, exhaust is finished and ready > > for coating. May be running the 0-200 this week or next !!! > > > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:19:50 -0400 To: From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Re: KR> laying glass Message-ID: <005901c1eb40$32afc960$6601a8c0@jimllaptop> Interestingly enough, I just read about a box-spar construction layup. It says that roller application is REQUIRED to achieve a good bond. In my test layups, I have not had any problem with the glass being pulled up with the roller over plastic. (with no plastic it pulls up badly) I also like the way it evenly distributes the resin. When I peel the plastic away (at inverse angle to avoid pulling) the surface is clean, smooth and not too wet (and no air bubbles). I have been reading about this box spar construction where layups require about 8 hours uninterrupted!!. (8 hours is a long time...where is that peel ply?) Seriously, the idea is to avoid a new layer over a cured one. Well, everything I read and see demonstrates a different method. I will stick with what works best for me. Jim www.chemroc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:52:37 -0400 To: jelanier@chemroc.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> laying glass Message-ID: <20020424.141551.-253295.1.virgnvs@juno.com> That is what KEN RAND did! Virg On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:14:01 -0400 "James E. Lanier" writes: > As you may recall, I have been giving myself a crash course in > fiberglassing. One thing I have discovered... > > Painting on the resin moves the glass material... > Rolling on resin works until it gets tacky! Then it sticks to the > roller. > > But...if you take wax covered plastic and lay it over the surface > and use a roller..well it works. > > It seems to work so well that I can't believe I have never read > about it. I find no references to such a solution. I am an engineer, > but..... > > Any input? > > > Jim > www.chemroc.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:13:01 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org, "'dewrencher@yahoo.com'" , "'timwbrown@yahoo.com'" , "'jeroffey@tir.com'" , "'ccollins@ultroninc.com'" , "'flesner@midwest.net'" , "'n925sg@earthlink.net'" From: Rick Subject: KRNet Servo Group Purchase - Last call Message-ID: <41ED2F1280124E4D8B88691C9A9B5FDE011B11@mail.binoids.com> Last call for those interested in getting a little discount on purchasing a RAC/MAC Trim servo. We've been gathering interest for a month now and it's time to see if it's a go. If we order 10 we can get them for $180.00 instead of paying Aircraft Spruce's price of 219.00. It's not great but it's not bad either if were already going to be buying one anyways. We have about 5 KR builders interested now, so need another 5. Thanks to Steve Glover for checking into pricing for us. If you have not already sent me an email and are interested please email me direct. Rick Hubka rick@hubka.com http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm 65 Butler Crescent NW Calgary AB T2L 1K4 Canada -----Original Message----- From: Rick Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:25 PM To: 'dewrencher@yahoo.com'; 'timwbrown@yahoo.com'; 'jeroffey@tir.com'; 'ccollins@ultroninc.com'; 'flesner@midwest.net'; 'n925sg@earthlink.net'; Rick Subject: Servo Group Purchase Update Well, I contacted Ray Allen today. They will offer a discount on their T2-7A kit for a purchase of 10 or more units only. The cost break would be at $180.00 per unit instead of $225.00. It appears we would need a few more orders to make the cut. Regards, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; "Rick" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: Servo Group Purchase Update > http://www.rayallencompany.com > > The RAC T2-10A has a 1.0" travel in 16 seconds > The RAC T2-7A has a 0.7" travel in 10 seconds > > Their site specifies a RAC T2-10A (MAC 6A) for the > KR2 ELEVATOR ???? > > Thanks for the info Charles... I was just going to > get one. I'll get the > 7A now. > Aircraft Spruce lists it as a MAC S4A on page 372 at > $219.00, same price as > the 1.0". > > > If there's any more interested in getting one, maybe > be can get them as a > group purchase for say 6 or so straight from Ray > Allen Company and save a > few $$$. They are located in Vista California. > > It's a small thing to mail. Even up here to Canada > eh! > > Any others interested? > > Rick Hubka > Rick@hubka.com > http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:24:04 +1000 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Peel - Ply Message-ID: <004c01c1eb50$43314ce0$0100a8c0@barry> ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1EBA4.120B9F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question, Everyone talks about Peel-Ply, I have asked in Australia and I can not = find out what it is. ( this was also the case with plyfoam) till I = asked the dum question. I can only think it is a plastic cover you place over the wet cloth.=20 Why not use a finishing cloth ( tissue) over the wet resin, or does this = add to much weight??? I may have a different name here in Australia. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1EBA4.120B9F40-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:23:39 +0800 To: From: "Philip Maley" Subject: RE: KR> Peel - Ply Message-ID: Phil Over here in Perth, Universal Plastics (Charlie Urwin) are the favourite suppliers of glass, resin and peel-ply. Call them on (08) 9470 2571 or check their web site at http://www.fibreglass-resin-sales.com.au/frs/home.html. Regards Phil Maley Perth Australia mailto:phil@wotech.com.au http://gangway.wotech.com.au/vk6ad/ -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Matheson [mailto:matheson@dodo.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:24 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Peel - Ply Question, Everyone talks about Peel-Ply, I have asked in Australia and I can not find out what it is. ( this was also the case with plyfoam) till I asked the dum question. I can only think it is a plastic cover you place over the wet cloth. Why not use a finishing cloth ( tissue) over the wet resin, or does this add to much weight??? I may have a different name here in Australia. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:55:48 -0500 (CDT) To: Phillip Matheson From: Steven Eberhart cc: Subject: Re: KR> Peel - Ply Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Phillip Matheson wrote: > Question, > > Everyone talks about Peel-Ply, I have asked in Australia and I can not find out what it is. ( this was also the case with plyfoam) till I asked the dum question. > > I can only think it is a plastic cover you place over the wet cloth. > > Why not use a finishing cloth ( tissue) over the wet resin, or does this add to much weight??? > > I may have a different name here in Australia. > There are several different types of peel-ply. All are polyester synthetic fabrics that don't bond to epoxy. The type I use the most is actually glider weight Ceconite wing covering material. I purchase it from Wicks. Order either Ceconite or peel-ply and you get the same thing. If you order Ceconite it costs more than peel-ply but even the picture in the catalog is the same for both products. THere are coated peel-plys that have a coating of teflon on the fabric. The coated fabrics peel off great but don't go around compound curves quite as well and are a lot more expensive. If you will be removing the peel-ply shortly after the epoxy cures then simply use Dacron dress lining fabric. Works fine, low cost, available most everywhere. Another advantage is you can buy it in many bright colours. If you use colored peel-ply then it is very obvious and you won't forget to remove it before adding another layer of fiberglass over the peel-ply. Steve Eberhart - aka assembler RV-7A - just a whole bunch of aluminum, in various states of attachment, filling up my half of the garage. Some of it looks like it might belong on the back end of an airplane. The rest looks like it might, some day, help hold it up in the air.... but what do I know. N14SE reserved ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:45:51 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> Peel - Ply Message-ID: Phillip, Steve mentioned in his post about using dress liner material. You can get this at any sewing center or a department store which has a sewing department. After you have micro slurred and glassed, just lay this material over your layup. Let it dry for 5-6 hours and peel the peel ply up. This fractures the surface resin and does away with that shinny surface. It eliminates a multitude of pin holes. Try a test panel, you will love the stuff. As opposed to the original "peel ply", dress liner material does not have a release agent so you can't leave it on for days. Like Steve said, get you some blue or green material and you never have to worry about forgetting to peel the stuff off. Dana Overall aka assembler Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com , > >Everyone talks about Peel-Ply, I have asked in Australia and I can not find >out what it is. ( this was also the case with plyfoam) till I asked the >dum question. > >I can only think it is a plastic cover you place over the wet cloth. > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:33:46 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> correction to a couple of flight squawks Message-ID: <20020424143346.14480.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff York wrote: > For those of you reding this, I will correct the > statement of passenger > weight of 300 LB. What I meant to say was that the > total passenger weight > was 300 lb. That was both pilot and passenger. > Thanks to those of you that made fun of my error. > Jeff Jeff, I'm real sorry to hear that. I was hoping to get to take my Mother-in-Law flying in my KR someday... Actually, I am glad to hear you got to fly it a little. You have a beautiful plane and I know it takes a skilled pilot to make those first few flights and deal with the problems that only show up when you get it off the ground. Hang in there. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:14:31 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Human Subject: ELT mount Message-id: <001201c1ec07$52704460$025edb40@compaq> --Boundary_(ID_1b3V8VSJSoUJ8EMzj1qcLg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Looking for details on how and where ELT's and their antenna's are being mounted. I have a Ameri-king which weights about 3 lbs - the book wants the structure to which it is mounted to be able to withstand 100g's(?!). Any body have any first hand experience they wish to share? Rick Human Houston, Texas http://home.swbell.net/rahuman/index.htm --Boundary_(ID_1b3V8VSJSoUJ8EMzj1qcLg)-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:16:41 -0700 To: "Rick Human" , From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> ELT mount Message-ID: I mounted mine on the Little Beast, behind the seat, on the fuse side. On this one, I built a bracket out of plywood and glued to the stringers on the side of the fuse behind the seat. I don't think this one nor the other one would withstand 100G. I don't think I could withstand 100G. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com -----Original Message----- From: Rick Human [mailto:rahuman@swbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 8:15 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> ELT mount Looking for details on how and where ELT's and their antenna's are being mounted. I have a Ameri-king which weights about 3 lbs - the book wants the structure to which it is mounted to be able to withstand 100g's(?!). Any body have any first hand experience they wish to share? Rick Human Houston, Texas http://home.swbell.net/rahuman/index.htm --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:32:33 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: RICK WILSON Subject: joe horton's kr2 Message-ID: <20020425033233.59207.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> hi, does anyone know how to contact joe horton? i saw his project on his page and he has some really sharp seats. i would like to find out how he made them or who made them and possibly get some for my kr2. thanks, rick wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:58:51 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: RICK WILSON Subject: joe horton's kr2 Message-ID: <20020425035851.71514.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> i'm sorry, i said his web page, actually it was on the krnet. look in the list of kr's under construction on the net page and his is last or next to last. rick. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:18:35 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: WW Video Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1EC64.162CBD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yesterday ( Wednesday) I received the WW video in the mail. Thanks Mark. = I viewed it last night, some parts twice, and today it is in the mail to = Rod Kelso. Most of the info in the video is old news by now but it was go= od to see William at that point of his recovery. I'm sure that by now his= recovery has progressed very much but I'm sure he still bears some scars= . I shall take seriously Williams advice on safety and use of Carb heat. Thanks again to Mark Jones for sending the video and to Pat Panzara for m= aking it. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1EC64.162CBD00-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************