From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 16 Jun 2002 13:45:09 -0000 Issue 452 Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:45 AM krnet Digest 16 Jun 2002 13:45:09 -0000 Issue 452 Topics (messages 10794 through 10819): Re: Wife 10794 by: Robert Stone changing engines/wives 10795 by: comcast Re: KR2S wings 10796 by: Dave and Tina Goodman 10801 by: Larry A. Capps 10802 by: Phillip Matheson 10804 by: Ron Eason Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! 10797 by: Serge F. VIDAL 10798 by: Robert Stone 10817 by: Daniel Heath 10819 by: Daniel Heath KR Newsletter - from Monte Miller 10799 by: Larry A. Capps 10805 by: Ron Eason fuel systems 10800 by: Rick Wilson Re:new to the list 10803 by: mike galloway Re: groundpower unit versus subaru 10806 by: Thomas C Adams flame/war 10807 by: Tim Brown The Building Experience 10808 by: Larry A. Capps Re: New - KRNet Mailing List Archive Search Engine - LIVE 10809 by: Rick napalm cannister 10810 by: Thomas C Adams 10811 by: gleone Adrian Carter's files 10812 by: Kerry Miller flames 10813 by: w.g. kirkland Sensitivity 10814 by: norm-ruth 10816 by: Daniel Heath Re: About KR Kit... 10815 by: Daniel Heath NEEDLE VALVE 10818 by: Eric Evezard Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:11:49 -0500 To: "norm-ruth" , "KRnet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Wife Message-ID: <000a01c214b1$43980b80$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> I met Burt Rutan at Chino airport in California in 1977. He flew his Veri-viggen to the air show and fly in going on at that time. Right after he landed, I asked him how long it took him to design and build his airplane and his reply was "2 & 1/2 wives. Bob Stone, Harker Heights. Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "norm-ruth" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:49 PM Subject: KR> Wife In a TV interview some time ago with Burt Ruton, the subject of his former wife came up. She told him it was either her or airplanes. Burt said it was the easiest decision he had ever made. Norm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:53:58 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: comcast Subject: changing engines/wives Message-id: <00d301c214b7$26eb4a00$24d02c44@computer> Why not buy a brand new Lycoming? Surely this is much cheaper than changing wives! Happy building (or flying if your lucky enough to be done), Bob Roe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:09:38 -0700 To: "cartera" From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Cc: "Bruce Barcham" , Subject: Re: KR> KR2S wings Message-ID: <002d01c214b9$58357980$6044a6d1@oemcomputer> Fellow builders, I am going to respond to Mr. Cartera's comments, as I think it is appropriate before this mailing list goes down for another flame war. Perhaps Mr. Barcham is not a "KR-time person". I do not know him or his level of experience in the KR or any other aircraft. I guess I am not a "KR person" myself, as my aircraft is not complete. If this criterion were to be followed, few people would be speaking on this mailing list. Personally, I do not think it should be required for a person to have time in the aircraft to have an opinion/question on the threads that have appeared over the years concerning the KRs well established flight characteristics. In the time I have been associated with the KR-net, I have started from scratch and almost finished my own version of the KR-2S. I have learned from some great men (and women) who have a passion for helping others and building aircraft. As a result of their guidance (and patience), I have made numerous changes to my airframe, including the engine, fuel tanks, and airfoils. I learned to do fiberglass from a video provided by someone (forgive me for forgetting who!) of Mark Langford showing his techniques at a KR gathering. I received an engine from William Wynne based on that same video and am thrilled with it. During the same time, I have watched some very sad and regrettable fights occur online. It is a shame our shared passion for building and experimenting gets caught up with our frail egos at times. What I have learned over the years is that there is rarely one way of doing things and that there are many ways of doing a given task or structure "right". "Right" is in the eyes of the builder... and it is okay for different builders to have different views of what is "right"... as long as it is structurally sound and follows safe building practices. I am going to respond directly to the two e-mails on my computer from Mr. Cartera. Mr. Cartera stated, "Not sure why this question was asked or even deserves a response, to me it seem someone is just cruising to flame someone. If the question is reasonable to you then why did you not leave it alone." My point exactly. The original question by Mr. Barcham seemed to be a worthy question, not worth the following comment that it inspired from Mr. Cartera when he said, " I am pretty dumb about things like this but what is improved lift performance and why do you need it who told you that the it's pitch sensitive? It's the pilots education and experience, how many hours you got in a KR before you make such outrageous statements. I really don't know if you should be in KR land, maybe RV land ;)!" Perhaps it is my failing that I saw nothing wrong with the original question, which was the following from Mr. Barcham, "My name is Bruce and I have bought a boat stage KR2 with completed wing spars and glassed tail parts. I have come across a set of Dan Deil wing skins for a KR2s and would like very much to fit them to my KR2. I am wondering if others have increased the size of the KR2 wing and kept the original KR2 fuselarge. Could anyone comment on this as a way to improve the lift performance of the KR2 and would I need to increase the size of the tail to maintain the ratio of wing area to tail area? Would the plane be more pitch sensitive with such a set up?" Does anyone else have heartburn with this question other than Mr. Cartera? If so, I am clearly out of bounds for my lack of understanding! What I read here is a man who has chosen to pick up the kit and start building. He has a legitimate question in my mind... one I would ask myself in his place. Mr. Cartera stated, "NO! I am not upset by the original question but I don't think it was thought out and when a no KR time person tells me that the KR is sensitive..." At no point in Mr. Barcham's e-mail does he state that the KR is pitch sensitive. He merely asked if, within some broadly defined parameters, the plane would be "more pitch sensitive with such a set up?" The most important part of this e-mail was the punctuation... a question mark, not a period or exclamation point. It was a question, Mr. Cartera. Mr. Barcham was asking for input. He was not stating anything and was certainly not looking to have his electronic empennage handed to him. Mr. Cartera stated at the end of his last e-mail, "Flame away, your just itchin!" No, Mr. Cartera, I am not "itchin!" to flame anyone. I want to build a modified KR-2S to the best of my ability. I recognize that I do not know a great deal about building airplanes. The KR-net was a great forum to learn those skills from people who did have more to offer than I do/did. I know so much more than I did 2 years ago, yet I still do not know it all... and that is a good thing. I have seen few stupid questions on the KR-net, though I have seen some very poorly thought out responses. Yours, in my opinion, Mr. Cartera, was one of the latter. It was crass and lacked any sense of correct sentence structure or punctuation. My prayer for you is that you can build aircraft better than you can communicate in written English. Speaking as one who has had to make an apology for his own very regrettable errors on the KR-net, Mr. Cartera, you owe Mr. Barcham and the KR-net an apology. Your comments were unacceptable, rude, and based on a "statement" that was really a question. Perhaps reading glasses AND English classes would have prevented this unfortunate incident. So the KR-net does not have to face a "flame war" as Mr. Cartera puts it, I will sign off KR-net at the end of the day. If anyone has comments for me on this incident, please just send them to me vice driving the rest of the KR-net to the delete button. My broad shoulders can handle the criticisms... do not make others have to suffer through it as well. I will return, in September I expect, when my aircraft is in the air and I have data I can share with those who are still building. It would be my wish that those remaining would focus on answering questions, not shooting the petitioners in the face. Mr. Barcham, I wish you success in building your new project. Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman N163PR zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:56:04 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: KR2S wings Message-ID: <000f01c214c8$360b7350$0600a8c0@schpankme> Group, I've always understood list etiquette to mean when you apply the goofy face *** ;) " at the end of a sentence or statement, it meant you were pulling someone's leg!! I'm always reminding myself, I some times say over the internet things which I would never say in person. And I some times read paragraphs from internet members which I felt were direct insults at me or other, when in fact they were simple punctuations, or poorly written to convey their proper meaning. Mr. Adrian Cater has given freely of his time to the KRNet in the past, and I for one hopes he stays around the KRNet and continues. Best Regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- ***I really don't know if you should be in KR land, maybe RV land ;)! Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:09:49 +1000 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S wings Message-ID: <006f01c214ca$2a01b720$4997dccb@barry> Seems to me you were very hard on a person trying his best to understand the problems we face, with our lovely KR2 , We are not all experts. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "cartera" To: "Bruce Barcham" Cc: Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 2:29 AM Subject: Re: KR> KR2S wings > Hello Gang & Bruce, > I am pretty dumb about things like this but what is improved lift > performance and why do you need it who told you that the it's pitch > sensitive? It's the pilots education and experience, how many hours you > got in a KR before you make such outrageous statements. I really don't > know if you should be in KR land, maybe RV land ;)! > > Bruce Barcham wrote: > > > > Hi KRneters, > > > > My name is Bruce and I have bought a boat stage KR2 with completed wing > > spars and glassed tail parts. I have come across a set of Dan Deil wing > > skins for a KR2s and would like very much to fit them to my KR2. I am > > wondering if others have increased the size of the KR2 wing and kept the > > original KR2 fuselarge. > > > > Could anyone comment on this as a way to improve the lift performance of the > > KR2 and would I need to increase the size of the tail to maintain the ratio > > of wing area to tail area? Would the plane be more pitch sensitive with such > > a set up? > > > > Yours in KRland > > > > Bruce B > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Calgary, Alberta > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:48:36 -0500 To: , "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S wings Message-ID: <001001c214d7$edf86b80$d6dc1f41@Administration> I second that. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry A. Capps" To: "KR Builders List (E-mail)" Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: KR> KR2S wings > Group, > > I've always understood list etiquette to mean when you apply the goofy > face *** ;) " at the end of a sentence or statement, it meant you were > pulling someone's leg!! I'm always reminding myself, I some times say over > the internet things which I would never say in person. And I some times > read paragraphs from internet members which I felt were direct insults at me > or other, when in fact they were simple punctuations, or poorly written to > convey their proper meaning. > > Mr. Adrian Cater has given freely of his time to the KRNet in the past, and > I for one hopes he stays around the KRNet and continues. > > Best Regards, > > Larry A. Capps > Naperville, IL > > > -----Original Message----- > ***I really don't > know if you should be in KR land, maybe RV land ;)! > > Adrian VE6AFY > Calgary, Alberta > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 23:58:03 +0200 To: From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C214C8.7D89E900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys, I hate sounding stooopid, but... I have to change the design of my fuel system, and shift from an engine driven fuel pump to an electrical pump, and there is something I can't figure out! The fuel pump pumps fuel continuously into the carburetor, right? Well, where does that fuel go? Is there a valve somewhere that prevents the carb from over-filling, or what? How does that work? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C214C8.7D89E900-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:01:03 -0500 To: , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Message-ID: <000b01c214c0$86339900$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Serge: You are not stupid for asking that question and any one on the net who says you are is an ass. Ask all the questions you want to, that's what this KRNet is for and if I were in charge the first ass who flamed anyone or called them stupid would be off the net for good. Constructive criticism is acceptable but ruddiness is not and should not be tolerated ever. Now to answer the question you have every right to ask. Carburetors have a built it float that operates a needle valve when the float bowl gets full of fuel the needle valve shuts off the flow of fuel. This is what prevents the carburetor from "over filling" Good luck with your project, and safe and happy flying. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge F. VIDAL" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! > Guys, I hate sounding stooopid, but... I have to change the design of my > fuel system, and shift from an engine driven fuel pump to an electrical > pump, and there is something I can't figure out! > > The fuel pump pumps fuel continuously into the carburetor, right? Well, > where does that fuel go? Is there a valve somewhere that prevents the carb > from over-filling, or what? How does that work? > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 07:40:05 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Message-ID: There are no stupid questions. I wish I had this forum to ask those "so called" stupid questions, when I was building my first KR. On the Carburetor, some do not have float bowls, like the Posa and RevFlow. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:01 PM To: svidal@icon.co.za; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Serge: You are not stupid for asking that question and any one on the net who says you are is an ass. Ask all the questions you want to, that's what this KRNet is for and if I were in charge the first ass who flamed anyone or called them stupid would be off the net for good. Constructive criticism is acceptable but ruddiness is not and should not be tolerated ever. Now to answer the question you have every right to ask. Carburetors have a built it float that operates a needle valve when the float bowl gets full of fuel the needle valve shuts off the flow of fuel. This is what prevents the carburetor from "over filling" Good luck with your project, and safe and happy flying. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge F. VIDAL" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! > Guys, I hate sounding stooopid, but... I have to change the design of my > fuel system, and shift from an engine driven fuel pump to an electrical > pump, and there is something I can't figure out! > > The fuel pump pumps fuel continuously into the carburetor, right? Well, > where does that fuel go? Is there a valve somewhere that prevents the carb > from over-filling, or what? How does that work? > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:46:41 -0700 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists.Org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Message-ID: OK, what makes them injectors? I did not know that they "injected", but rather, were sucked upon and delivered fuel into the air stream according to the amount the valve allowed to slip by. I know they are called throttle body injectors, but I would like to know what distinguishes a carburetor from an injector. Thanks, Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:46 AM To: Daniel Heath Subject: Re: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! Posa and Rev Flow are injectors not carburetors ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Heath" To: Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: RE: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! > There are no stupid questions. I wish I had this forum to ask those "so > called" stupid questions, when I was building my first KR. > > On the Carburetor, some do not have float bowls, like the Posa and RevFlow. > > Daniel R. Heath > > See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org > > See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:01 PM > To: svidal@icon.co.za; krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! > > > Serge: > You are not stupid for asking that question and any one on the net who > says you are is an ass. Ask all the questions you want to, that's what this > KRNet is for and if I were in charge the first ass who flamed anyone or > called them stupid would be off the net for good. Constructive criticism is > acceptable but ruddiness is not and should not be tolerated ever. > Now to answer the question you have every right to ask. Carburetors > have a built it float that operates a needle valve when the float bowl gets > full of fuel the needle valve shuts off the flow of fuel. This is what > prevents the carburetor from "over filling" Good luck with your project, > and safe and happy flying. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serge F. VIDAL" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:58 PM > Subject: KR> Well, another stupid question, I'm afraid! > > > > Guys, I hate sounding stooopid, but... I have to change the design of my > > fuel system, and shift from an engine driven fuel pump to an electrical > > pump, and there is something I can't figure out! > > > > The fuel pump pumps fuel continuously into the carburetor, right? Well, > > where does that fuel go? Is there a valve somewhere that prevents the carb > > from over-filling, or what? How does that work? > > > > Serge Vidal > > KR2 ZS-WEC > > Johannesburg, South Africa > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:32:26 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: KR Newsletter - from Monte Miller Message-ID: <000d01c214c4$e8fd11c0$0600a8c0@schpankme> Monte Miller KR Newsletter The question comes up now and again... Why not post the KR Newsletter and the back issues on the internet and freely share information? It's a valid question. By way of comparison, consider if doing so might be the same as asking Rand-Robinson, in the interests of the hobby, to freely distribute KR plans on the internet. As viable businesses, both Rand-Robinsons KR sales and the KR Newsletter are products owned by private individuals who have a vested interest in their continuing success and commercial value. If a product is available at no cost, what becomes of the value of that business? No commercial enterprises can sustain itself without income. This is a fair analogy. Specifically regarding the KR Newsletter, it is not a hobby. It is a privately-owned publishing operation that was acquired for value received, has multiple fixed and variable monthly expenses, occasionally generates an income, pays taxes, owns copyrights, requires a certain amount of labor to produce and is a commercial product offered for sale to those individuals wishing to purchase a subscription and/or articles from previous issues. If this sounds like the definition of a small commercial business to you, you are correct. The income from this business, after expenses, is utilized to help financially maintain my family and home. In broader terms, the KR Newsletter is simply a product available for sale to those individuals interested in buying it. It's also a product purchased with a customer's hard-earned dollar. That same paying customer deserves to have his financial investment kept at heart by the publisher. To do otherwise would be a disservice to the KR Newsletter's loyal subscribers - past, present and future. As noted in the KR Newsletter article, both business and personal responsibilities require that I attempt to locate another owner for the newsletter. By the way, there's an interesting and not totally dissimilar situation that has occurred within the internet list community of those builders, pilots, and fans of the Roger Mann-designed series of light plane replica aircraft. It touches upon ownership rights of an individual's personal business. As the RagWing designs have grown in popularity, a few people, good intentioned as they are, had begun advertising on the internet, for sale, RagWing wood kits and components for some of the RagWing Aero designs... without approval from Mr. Mann. The list was soon a-buzz with notes from these well-meaning folks whom had received an unexpected letter from Mr. Mann's attorney. And so it goes... within this Weird Wired World. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:57:38 -0500 To: , "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> KR Newsletter - from Monte Miller Message-ID: <001801c214d9$31767220$d6dc1f41@Administration> I am in 100% agreement, I own my own business also, you are either a for profit enterprise which benefits it customers or your a charity filled with volunteers, you are one or the other. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry A. Capps" To: "KR Builders List (E-mail)" Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: KR> KR Newsletter - from Monte Miller > Monte Miller > KR Newsletter > > The question comes up now and again... Why not post the KR Newsletter > and the back issues on the internet and freely share information? It's a > valid question. > > By way of comparison, consider if doing so might be the same as asking > Rand-Robinson, in the interests of the hobby, to freely distribute KR plans > on the internet. As viable businesses, both Rand-Robinsons KR sales and the > KR Newsletter are products owned by private individuals who have a vested > interest in their continuing success and commercial value. If a product is > available at no cost, what becomes of the value of that business? No > commercial enterprises can sustain itself without income. This is a fair > analogy. > > Specifically regarding the KR Newsletter, it is not a hobby. It is a > privately-owned publishing operation that was acquired for value received, > has multiple fixed and variable monthly expenses, occasionally generates an > income, pays taxes, owns copyrights, requires a certain amount of labor to > produce and is a commercial product offered for sale to those individuals > wishing to purchase a subscription and/or articles from previous issues. > > If this sounds like the definition of a small commercial business to > you, you are correct. The income from this business, after expenses, is > utilized to help financially maintain my family and home. > > In broader terms, the KR Newsletter is simply a product available for > sale to those individuals interested in buying it. It's also a product > purchased with a customer's hard-earned dollar. That same paying customer > deserves to have his financial investment kept at heart by the publisher. To > do otherwise would be a disservice to the KR Newsletter's loyal subscribers > - past, present and future. > > As noted in the KR Newsletter article, both business and personal > responsibilities require that I attempt to locate another owner for the > newsletter. > > By the way, there's an interesting and not totally dissimilar situation > that has occurred within the internet list community of those builders, > pilots, and fans of the Roger Mann-designed series of light plane replica > aircraft. It touches upon ownership rights of an individual's personal > business. > > As the RagWing designs have grown in popularity, a few people, good > intentioned as they are, had begun advertising on the internet, for sale, > RagWing wood kits and components for some of the RagWing Aero designs... > without approval from Mr. Mann. The list was soon a-buzz with notes from > these well-meaning folks whom had received an unexpected letter from Mr. > Mann's attorney. And so it goes... within this Weird Wired World. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:35:31 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: fuel systems Message-ID: <20020615233531.60694.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, The float and needle setup in the carbuerator is also designed to work in conjunction with a fuel pressure regulator. Either in-line or by-pass, etc. The regulator will keep the pressure low enough so as not to blow fuel past the needle valve when it is closed. If you use an electric fuel pump you may want to consider an in-line regulator. Thanks, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:54:29 -0500 To: From: "mike galloway" Subject: Re:new to the list Message-ID: <004901c214e1$227e60e0$4c4eef0c@attbi.com> Hi all, My name is Mike Galloway of Mesquite Texas and i started building a KR2 15 years ago. Life and other things interfered about 2 years into the project, but my priorities have been adjusted and I am anxious to complete this long delayed adventure.The problem right now is that the airplane kit is still in Pa., from where I moved half a year ago. i am looking for a suitable place in the Dallas area to complete the work, and as soon as I find a suitable workshop, garage, or hangar space, I will be moving the project here. I am giving all of you fair warning that once I have the arrangements made, I will be inundating this list with questions. I expect to attend Oshkosh this year where I hope to meet many of you on the list. I really look forward to again becoming part of the KR building community. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:29:42 -0500 To: From: "Thomas C Adams" Subject: re: KR>groundpower unit versus subaru Message-ID: <003001c214dd$ad6b1800$33cdacd1@tomadams> ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C214B3.C3255360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got a 1776 vw and after looking at the subaru was impressed with = it. I'm under the impression that an O-200 might be a good engine for a kr. insurance is good. being unmarried, i will give you no advice about wives..... best of luck tom adams Bob, I had a friend whose wife kept bugging him about his half interest in a Cesna 140. She finally issued the ultimatum " Either that plane goes or = I go" my friend replyed " Well you said it babby, I didn't" and they got a divorse. The story has an even happier ending . They got to geather = again a few years latter and remarried, only by this time my friend had = aquired a T 56 that burned 35 GPH. She should have quit while she was ahead. Bill Starrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert X. Cringely" To: "les d kinkade" ; Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:41 AM Subject: Re: KR> ground power unit conversion > I am on my seventh homebuilt and third wife and can tell you that = there is > no way switching engines is going to make her feel any better about = your > -2S. If she is complaining about the engine and you change engines, she'll > find something else to fault. The fact that you've been putting off = the > inevitable confrontation for so long has been giving her (and not you) what > she wants. She doesn't have to fly in it. Go to PIC and get a lot of life > insurance that pays even if you crash your KR, point out to her that = you > are worth more dead than alive, and go flying. > > > Bob > > > > > At 09:06 AM 6/15/02 -0700, les d kinkade wrote: > >Question to throw out for information. I took a gamble on e-bay and > >bought two surplus ground power units having heard years ago that = they > >could be converted into aircraft use. The tags on the units read: 84 > >cubic in > > stock No > >2805-00-872-5972 > > ser No > >xxxxxxxxx > > Mil Model > >4A084 roman numeral 3 > > manual > >tm5-2805-259-14&15 > > Mfg by > >Continental > > mfg 6-63 > >Does any one have a clue as to the possibilities here? How do you = get > >information that would pertain to these units? > > > >I am building a 2S and have a EA 81 with a reduction unit and prop = up > >and running but the wife is not comfortable with the idea of me = flying > >this bird as is so to keep her from firing up the chain saw I have = been > >just weeks away from finishing the plane for years. > >Any help would be gladly accepted > >Les Kinkade > >Louisville KY > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > >and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/=20 and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C214B3.C3255360-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:26:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: flame/war Message-ID: <20020616022612.49659.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> A year or more ago during a flame/war I made the suggestion/comment that the people on this list should spend the time responding to the question posed, not responding to responses, or not respond at all. Perhaps it is time again to make this suggestion again. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:54:28 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: The Building Experience Message-ID: <001b01c214e1$2263acf0$0600a8c0@schpankme> As a helpful hint, when discussing “the best place to build your project”, this should be right out your back door (garage, basement, ect). A lot of folks which acquire building space at location other than their home, are finding it harder and harder to routinely "commute" daily, to and from the building location. This factor alone attributes to most people not finishing their planes. As a second hint, “share the building experience”. Get the family involved, this is a hobby which means its something to be enjoyed by the whole family. Also, the skills learned in building your plane will benefit your kids, and this knowledge will stay with them for the rest of their lives! Get your spouse involved, you will find that two heads are better than one, especially when coordinating life’s activates with building. Join your local EAA Chapter. The wealth of information from its members are mind boggling. Make new friends and share the flying and building experience with them. Regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:08:25 -0600 To: "KR Builders List (E-mail)" From: Rick Cc: "Rick Maddy (E-mail)" Subject: RE: KR> New - KRNet Mailing List Archive Search Engine - LIVE Message-ID: <41ED2F1280124E4D8B88691C9A9B5FDE011B56@mail.binoids.com> Hi Larry and Gang Nice way to search for KR info... I just tried searching for KR building info there and... The saerches were incredibly fast. I added the link to my home page Thanks Rick Hubka http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm rick@hubka.com 65 Butler Crescent NW Calgary AB T2L 1K4 Canada -----Original Message----- From: Larry A. Capps [mailto:lacapps@attbi.com] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:16 PM To: KR Builders List (E-mail) Cc: Rick Maddy (E-mail) Subject: KR> New - KRNet Mailing List Archive Search Engine - LIVE KRNet, Below will tell you about a new and exciting way to search through the KRNet mailing list archives. This is currently meant to compliment the two methods we have today (John Bouyea's and Bryan Abshier's). This new Archive search engine (www.maddyhome.com/krsrch) allows you to perform simple, and complex searches through the messages posted to the mailing list. The database is updated each night with the previous days messages. The most common type of search will be a keyword search in the message body. For example, lets say you wanted to find all messages about "peel ply". If you entered peel ply in the keyword entry and pressed the Search button, you would be presented with all messages that contained the words peel and ply. The new search engine allows you to perform much more complex searches. The main use will allow you to specify keywords from the body of the message. As an example: find all message that contain the word epoxy but not the word resin enter this as: epoxy and not resin This search engine has some basic knowledge of the English language. If you search on the word sand, you will get matches for any messages containing the words sand, sanding, sanded, sander, or sands. You may specify how to sort the results. The choices are: o by date o subject o from The results will have a little arrow next to the column indicating how the results are being sorted. Clicking on a column header in the results list will cause the results to be resorted on the selected column. If the results are already being sorted on that column then the sort will be reversed. There is a link to HELP on the search screen. You may wish to read this over to discover all the power of the search engine. The new search engine can be found at www.maddyhome.com/krsrch , please feel free to add a link to your site. Our Special Thanks go to Rick Maddy (Cozy IV builder friend) for donating his time and equipment, so you, the 400+ KR Builders around the world can now utilize a fantastic, feature rich, search engine. Best Regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:30:15 -0500 To: From: "Thomas C Adams" Subject: napalm cannister Message-ID: <002a01c214e6$22ea28c0$33cdacd1@tomadams> ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C214BC.38939B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was given a napalm can by my brother. at first i thought it was a joke, but after looking at it, it might = make a good fuselage. plenty of room, about 19 feet long and 100 lbs. already has tail feathers, though not the kind needed, but the = attachment seems straight forward. tricycle gear probably preferred for personal reasons. low wing seems reasonable, 4 to 6 degrees dihedral, 4 foot chord, 20 = foot span. any remarks will be welcome. tom adams ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C214BC.38939B40-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:23:49 -0500 To: Thomas C Adams From: gleone CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> napalm cannister Message-ID: <3D0BF6B5.AA130E93@tritel.net> It should make a GREAT Kamakazi! Thomas C Adams wrote: > i was given a napalm can by my brother. > > at first i thought it was a joke, but after looking at it, it might make a good fuselage. > > plenty of room, about 19 feet long and 100 lbs. > > already has tail feathers, though not the kind needed, but the attachment seems straight forward. > > tricycle gear probably preferred for personal reasons. > > low wing seems reasonable, 4 to 6 degrees dihedral, 4 foot chord, 20 foot span. > > any remarks will be welcome. > > tom adams ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 23:17:22 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: Adrian Carter's files Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020615231722.007a9570@pop3.ticnet.com> I haven't put up a link on my web site yet, I'll try to do that tomorrow (Sunday). In the meantime, if you want to download the files, use these links: http://users.ticnet.com/kmiller01/images/krinfo01.zip http://users.ticnet.com/kmiller01/images/krinfo02.zip http://users.ticnet.com/kmiller01/images/krinfo03.zip If it doesn't work for you, let me know and we'll work something out. If you're using Netscape or IE, it should pop up a box asking you where you would like to save the file. If you don't understand how to get the links directly to the files to work right, just sit tight and I'll try to make a page for them tomorrow. Good luck! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:56:41 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: flames Message-ID: <010f01c214f2$35738700$76b45bd1@utboopki> ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C214D0.AD893A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I get a great deal of pleasure from the net and have learned a great = deal from all and sundry but am occassionally greatly chagrined when a = few otherwise knowledgeable gentlemen persist in engaging in a battle of = wits between what seems to me to be "unarmed combatants". W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C214D0.AD893A40-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 03:40:59 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "norm-ruth" Subject: Sensitivity Message-ID: <001d01c21511$c2292960$e81cd03f@prodigy.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C214E7.A11C9100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There has been talk on the list recently about pitch sensitivity. This = seems to be of interest to many KRers. In checking the KR Net mailing = list archives http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp I found there = were 196 entries for sensitivity since 4/97. This interest must be = legitimate. Norm Norm ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C214E7.A11C9100-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 07:27:45 -0700 To: "KRnet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Sensitivity Message-ID: It is, before you learn to fly it. After you learn how to fly it, it is called RESPONSIVENESS. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: norm-ruth [mailto:norm-ruth@prodigy.net] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 1:41 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Sensitivity There has been talk on the list recently about pitch sensitivity. This seems to be of interest to many KRers. In checking the KR Net mailing list archives http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp I found there were 196 entries for sensitivity since 4/97. This interest must be legitimate. Norm Norm --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 07:25:50 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> About KR Kit... Message-ID: Joaquim, I have a different opinion about the pre-molded parts for the KR2. I don't know about the ones for the 2S. The only part that I have found that fits, unless you are willing to use them exactly as they are, is the forward deck and I highly recommend getting that part as it helps set up the rest of the construction above the longerons. The turtle deck is too rounded and you will have no head room unless you are very short. The canopy bubble does not fit the frame and you might want to consider a dragonfly bubble. If you change the turtle deck, the canopy frame won't fit it. I used to think the wing skins were the way to go, but I have my doubts now because of the cost and difficulty of installation, but I really am not sure about that yet. If you want a cowling, be sure that you have an engine and exhaust system that are compatible with it, or it will not fit either. I am on my second KR2 now and the only part that I did not have to re-build, is the forward deck. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 5:10 AM To: joca@softhome.net Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> About KR Kit... It is sure worth it, Wing skins also, Virg On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:45:55 -0300 "joaquim" writes: > Hi there, > Here in my country is very hard to find parts in order to built a > good KR so I've been thinking in buy a complete KR kit including > premolded Wing Skins . Does it worth? Is the KR kit from RR good > enough? How long it will take to be assembled? > Best regards. > Joaquim > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:27:26 +0200 To: "KR MAIL" From: "Eric Evezard" Subject: NEEDLE VALVE Message-ID: <000801c21539$aecd3b40$44ce07c4@bonzabay> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2154A.51FD1960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Netters, Serge,there is no such thing as a stupid question.I think your KR has a = Stromberg/Zenith 175 carb.This carb has 57 bits and pieces all equally = important.Forced fuel from a fuel pump is stopped by a needle valve in = the twin float chamber.When full the needle valve closes the supply.The = fuel pump still runs but "free wheels" until there is a new demand for = fuel.Facet make of electric fuel pumps are popular and are often mounted = two pumps in line.Each pump has its own switch and independant electrict = power supply.Both pumps are used for takeoff and landing and one for = cruise.The pump nearest in line to the supply tank is used when cruising = and pumps through the second one.The needle valve setting is = critical.With float chamber cap removed,,the carb is turned upside down = Then the float level is set exactly 17 mm, measured fromt the gasket = flange (gasket fitted)to the base of the float.Float adjustment can be = carried out in two ways.: bend the tag which contacts the valve or fit a = washer.If you are using Facet pumps remember to connect the black wire = to the body of the pump first then to battery minus.If one connects the = black wire straight to batt.minus the pump wont run. Very Best Regards to All, Eric Evezard, South Africa. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2154A.51FD1960-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************