From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 21 Jun 2002 03:54:56 -0000 Issue 458 Date: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:55 PM krnet Digest 21 Jun 2002 03:54:56 -0000 Issue 458 Topics (messages 10970 through 10999): Re: Use of belly boards (speed brakes) 10970 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: radio interferience 10971 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: Pictures of ZS-WEC are on the Web/Thank you! 10972 by: Frank Ross Re: Fiberglass on fuselage 10973 by: Frank Ross 10980 by: Ronald Freiberger 10981 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: epoxy , coins, exchange rates, etc. 10974 by: Frank Ross RC servos and other matters 10975 by: Peg and Mike Meyer 10985 by: Aaron Patrick Sand 10998 by: Jerry . charter.net Re: strobes. 10976 by: Frank Ross Automotive mirror motors 10977 by: Frank Ross Re: Flying with belly boards 10978 by: Robert X. Cringely 10982 by: Ronald Freiberger 10984 by: Robert X. Cringely 10986 by: Donald Blankenship canopy 10979 by: rfarmer 10997 by: larry flesner Re: measuring epoxy. 10983 by: ROBERT COOPER Mode C 10987 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 10999 by: larry flesner How to modify a servo 10988 by: Peg and Mike Meyer strobes, archive search 10989 by: Mark Langford gear and skins 10990 by: The Waldrens spar dimensions and weights 10991 by: Robert Abel 10992 by: Donald Blankenship OnStar Services [ GPS and cell phone] 10993 by: Ron Eason EAA Oshkosh Forums 10994 by: Mark Jones mixing epoxy 10995 by: Rick Wilson Re: Fiberglass on fuselage/epoxy 10996 by: larry flesner Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:10:14 -0400 To: VANCE@CLAFLINWILDCATS.COM From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Use of belly boards (speed brakes) Message-ID: <20020620.101611.-328369.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Speed on the numbers and slips, Virg On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:44:52 -0500 "JIM VANCE" writes: > I flew the fast ones for ten years for Uncles Sam. We used the > speedbrakes during descents, such as the instruments approach > penetrations from 20,000 feet. We flew a 360 degree overhead > landing pattern instead of the rectangular ones used by civilian > aircraft and the lumbering trash haulers (transport planes). We > would extend the speed brakes as we pitched out over the touchdown > point, and they stayed out until we were on the runway. > > Flying the T-38 was similar to what I hear about flying the KR's. > It was so slick that a no-flap/speed brake approach required you to > be no more than 300 feet off the ground two miles out on final, and > you still often exceeded 240 knots over the numbers. > > The RF-4 was more like flying a brick. It had massive speedbrakes > and flaps, but when you pulled the power back, it headed down. The > speedbrakes did make speed control much more positivie, however. > > How do you land a KR on a short runway without a speed brake? > > Jim Vance > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:18:37 -0400 To: audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> radio interferience Message-ID: <20020620.103247.-328369.4.virgnvs@juno.com> Yes it will affect the radio , Virg On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:57:41 -0400 "Audrey and Harold Woods" writes: > I add aluminum powder to the epoxy mix , along with micro when > finishing a surface.It lets me see what I have done. Whenpainting > any surface I add aluminum. It is thus easy to see and ads > ultraviolet protection. Problem- will this aluminum additive > interfere with the radio antenna inside or under the fibreglass? > Have I created a hidden monster for myself ?Harold Woods. > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:45:24 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Pictures of ZS-WEC are on the Web/Thank you! Message-ID: <20020620144524.46512.qmail@web21501.mail.yahoo.com> Serge, That is a beautiful little bird. My sincere thanks to you for providing the photos and to Mark Langford for providing the "hanger space". Is that altimeter reading 5500 ft? Nice job. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX --- "Serge F. VIDAL" wrote: > Mark Langford found a bit of space to hangar my > aircraft in his Website. > Serge VIDAL > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:52:32 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: RE: KR> Fiberglass on fuselage Message-ID: <20020620145232.99754.qmail@web21503.mail.yahoo.com> Somewhere I read Tony Bingelis found some in a Hobby Shop and built a rudder from it. My model-building was pre-plastic (~50 yrs ago) but I'll bet you'll find very thin fiberglass cloth in Hobby Shops near your home. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX, where the air is wet and the ground is dry. --- Daniel Heath wrote: > There is a really thin one called finish cloth. I > don't remember the > weight, but it is listed in AS. > > Daniel R. Heath >> -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Matheson [mailto:matheson@dodo.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 3:50 PM > To: KR Net Listings > Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass on fuselage > > > Ok all, thanks again, > But what then ,is the thin type of cloth you are > using?? > > Phil Matheson. > Australia __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:50:44 -0400 To: , From: "Ronald Freiberger" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> fiberglass on fuselage Message-ID: Virg said; How about a good paint job ? Virg The answer is that established good practice is usually a good idea, and then you can put your efforts into inventing something where it's needed. Paint will split and check, microscopically at first, and then worsen as moisture intrudes. Been there, done that. Dacron and PolyFiber process is easier; epoxy/fibreglass works well Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com How about a good paint job ? Virg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:54:35 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: Fiberglass on fuselage Message-ID: Virg said; How about a good paint job ? Virg The answer is that established good practice is usually a good idea, and then you can put your efforts into inventing something where it's needed. Paint will split and check, microscopically at first, and then worsen as moisture intrudes. Been there, done that. Dacron and PolyFiber process is easier; epoxy/fibreglass works well Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com How about a good paint job ? Virg Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:05:20 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> RE: epoxy , coins, exchange rates, etc. Message-ID: <20020620150521.17537.qmail@web21505.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, It's those "Damned Yankee" Coins yer usin. Now if we had decent "Coin of the Confederacy" we might get somewhere. Meanwhile, I'll bet new washers would be a more consistent weight than coins that might be of different age and weight. BTW, what's the exchange rate, Canadian, Australian and So African on this balance beam, anyway? I'm going to need a LOT of asbestos on this one. Frank in San Antonio, TX where it's about to get a LOT hotter --- mike galloway wrote: > I didn't have enough pennies, so I used 4 quarters > on one side and 4 nickles > and ane dime and 3 pennies on the other. That epoxy > wasn't worth a lick! I > guess I still have a lot to learn about buildin > airplanes. :) > Mike Galloway > Mesquite, TX __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:13:50 -0500 To: kr From: Peg and Mike Meyer Subject: RC servos and other matters Message-id: <004a01c2186d$15aa9d40$399dfea9@o0c8u6> --Boundary_(ID_U0UD+KP9MbNLfs8NqWzIPA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm doing a bit of investigation on what kind of servo to use for elevator trim and I've come across a question. As I understand the operation and circuitry of an rc servo, the servo continually trys to correct back to the position it is commanded. Is this a true statement? If that's the case, I believe that an rc servo would ultimately make a better trim system than an electric mirror motor because of this feedback function. I don't know exactly what the forces are that are operating on a trim tab, but I know that I can change the positioning on the electric mirror in my car with a relatively minor push. I know Dan and Jerry are working on an electric mirror trim system - how do you guys see it? By the way, what kind of car did you pull your mirror from? Is there anyone out there using an electric mirror trim system who would comment on this? Did we ultimately come to a conclusion on what kind of seatbelts must (may) be installed in an experimental a/c? I've got a set of Simpson racing belts I'm looking at and from my experience, they're equal to anything I've seen in a heavy jet. Do the belts used have to be TSO'd for aircraft use? And one last question for all you engineering types...is it reasonable and/or prudent to share a common attachment point on the aft spar for passenger and pilot seatbelt ( i.e., the point on the spar where 1/2 of the lap belt would go the the pilot and the other half to the passenger)? Thanks, Mike Meyer --Boundary_(ID_U0UD+KP9MbNLfs8NqWzIPA)-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:18:03 -0400 To: From: "Aaron Patrick Sand" Subject: Re: KR> RC servos and other matters Message-ID: Mike, You're right about the R/C servo's operation. The servo holds a position that corresponds to the position of the stick on the R/C transmitter. I believe it's the potentiometer that makes the servo do this. So if you wanted to use an UNMODIFIED R/C servo, you're trim control in the cockpit would have to be something that held a position that you wanted for your trim, like a lever or something to that effect. You're probably on your own to make something like that. But look at the size of your trim tab. It's bigger than most R/C airplane control surfaces. And look at the speeds the KR flies at, much higher than most models. If your plane was loaded so that you needed the trim almost at the stops for cruise, your servo will be under a LOT of strain. And if you set up a pushrod system like in a model to actuate your trim tab, you're going to need a very high-torque servo. And those are expensive ($50-$100 and up). And you still have to make a cockpit trim control. However... If you know how to do electronics work, you could modify/remove the potentiometer so that the servo just ran in one direction while a switch was depressed. Then use a jackscrew or something similar to actuate your trim tab. This would allow the use of a less expesive standard servo, and those are $15-$20. I can't comment too much more on this. I've seen guys modify servos so they ran continuously in one direction. And I'm sure that guys have used this in experimental planes. I think I may have some articles on modifying servos like this somewhere in my decade stash of R/C magazines. Let me know if you're interested and I'll hunt them down and send them to you. -Aaron Sand The Citadel, Class of 2004 On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:13:50 -0500 Peg and Mike Meyer wrote: > I'm doing a bit of investigation on what kind of servo to use for elevator > trim and I've come across a question. As I understand the operation and > circuitry of an rc servo, the servo continually trys to correct back to the > position it is commanded. Is this a true statement? If that's the case, I > believe that an rc servo would ultimately make a better trim system than an > electric mirror motor because of this feedback function. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:49:33 -0700 To: From: "Jerry @ charter.net" Subject: Re: KR> RC servos and other matters Message-ID: <003801c218ef$cd74a7e0$6401a8c0@oldmyrddin> Mike, Having built a lot of R/C model airplanes; I am very familiar with the model servos.... There are positional ones that stay where you put them - used for throttle and trim in modles. And then there are the centering ones used generally for control surfaces. We are useing the auto mirror motors for two reasons; heavier gears, lower cost and ease of wiring (that's three). We got our's from a late model Buick of some ??? I suggest to just wander around the junk yard looking inside til you see one with electrics. Then you just take your screwdrive and pop the mirror off, and wala; there sets the future servo. It will be held on with three or four screws. Take out the screws, cut the four wires (with some slack for hooking up later), and head for the check out desk.... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC http://kr-builder.org http://jerrymahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg and Mike Meyer" To: "kr" Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:13 AM Subject: KR> RC servos and other matters > I'm doing a bit of investigation on what kind of servo to use for elevator trim and I've come across a question. As I understand the operation and circuitry of an rc servo, the servo continually trys to correct back to the position it is commanded. Is this a true statement? If that's the case, I believe that an rc servo would ultimately make a better trim system than an electric mirror motor because of this feedback function. I don't know exactly what the forces are that are operating on a trim tab, but I know that I can change the positioning on the electric mirror in my car with a relatively minor push. I know Dan and Jerry are working on an electric mirror trim system - how do you guys see it? By the way, what kind of car did you pull your mirror from? Is there anyone out there using an electric mirror trim system who would comment on this? > > Did we ultimately come to a conclusion on what kind of seatbelts must (may) be installed in an experimental a/c? I've got a set of Simpson racing belts I'm looking at and from my experience, they're equal to anything I've seen in a heavy jet. Do the belts used have to be TSO'd for aircraft use? > > And one last question for all you engineering types...is it reasonable and/or prudent to share a common attachment point on the aft spar for passenger and pilot seatbelt ( i.e., the point on the spar where 1/2 of the lap belt would go the the pilot and the other half to the passenger)? > > Thanks, > > Mike Meyer > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:07:38 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> strobes. Message-ID: <20020620150738.18312.qmail@web21505.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, If they're free, it would be worth the time to set one up in the shop and see how long it goes. It's 'Experimental', after all. Frank in San Antonio --- Mark Langford wrote: > > Harold Woods wrote: > > How about the strobe lights in disposible cameras. > You can get them free at > camera development businesses. Harold Woods. > > >>Think about this for just a second. Do you really > think the electrical > engineer that designed that camera for a total of 20 > pictures chose a strobe > tube that could flash 3600 times an hour for the > life of your airplane? I > doubt it... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:19:22 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Automotive mirror motors Message-ID: <20020620151922.19944.qmail@web21508.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, Don't use any electric mirror (or window) motors from Porsche, VW or Audi. I've had two early 80s Porsche 944s and had trouble with the mirror motors and window motors WAY earlier than with other vehicles. AND I am pretty sure these motors are shared with VW and Audi. Also see the same mirrors (they are beautiful and VERY expensive) on early 80s 928s and 911s. Just my 2 cents. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX P.S. If you already have some, they are just junk, so send them to me right away. --- Peg and Mike Meyer wrote: > By the way, what kind of car did you pull your > mirror from? > Thanks, > Mike Meyer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:32:06 -0700 To: From: Robert X. Cringely Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Flying with belly boards Message-Id: My KR-1 has neither flaps nor a belly board, so I can't comment on that, but my Glasair uses belly-mounted spoilers that might be applicable to a KR. Invented by Lyle Powell, a cranky-but-prolific Glasair innovator who also did the first wingtip extensions, this spoiler is mounted like a belly board but is hinged at the BACK rather than the front. Actuation is through a cable (Lyle used clothesline) with the slipstream providing all the power to pull down the board. The real effort is to close it, but that gets progressively less as the spoiler enters the boundary layer. Lyle earlier built a Varieze with a Rutan-style belly board (the archetype for KR boards) and felt this was lighter, easier to build, and certainly simpler to operate. I find it is very effective and have had no problems at all in more than 15 years of use. Of course the low ground clearance of a KR would probably be a factor, but I think it is still valuable to throw out this suggestion and see if anyone is interested. Bob On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 08:13 AM, wrote: > Anyone out there with flying experience using a belly board? Do you > only use it in descent or all the way to touchdown? Some info would be > nice. Mine is already built - 10X30 and hinged to the front spar. > Still have to make handle for it. Would you recomend 15-45 degrees or > all the way to 90? BILL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:15:13 -0400 To: "Robert X. Cringely" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Cc: "KRNET" Subject: RE: KR> Flying with belly boards Message-ID: re/ belly board but is hinged at the BACK rather than the front Robert X., Your comments are really helpful. A little more, please. The clothesline operation certainly is more flexible for actuation. How far aft ( % of airfoil) is it mounted, and what width (% of airfoil)? About how many degrees does it open? Does it rumble, whistle, or what? Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert X. Cringely [mailto:bob@cringely.com] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:01:58 -0700 To: "Ronald Freiberger" From: Robert X. Cringely Cc: "KRNET" Subject: Re: KR> Flying with belly boards Message-Id: The Glasair fuselage mounted spoiler (actually spoilers, since they are usually installed in pairs) are actually mounted quite far forward, ahead of the wing and directly behind the firewall. The reason for two spoilers is the Glasair has a cooling air exit tunnel that extends aft of the firewall in the middle, so the two spoilers are put on either side. In a design lacking such a tunnel, like most KRs, a single spoiler would do well. Mine are each about 6-by-12 inches (I don't remember for sure -- it has been a lot of years since I built them) and are made of 0.063 aluminum. I think, in retrospect, that 0.040 would have done fine or even 0.032 with a couple of doublers. The spoilers are riveted to a six inch extruded hinge, which is attached to the fuselage with 8-32 machine screws and an internal backing plate. Spoiler travel is limited to a maximum of 45 degrees. There is no need for a return spring, just a cable or rope controlled by a lever, handle, or even a vernier control. Just make sure it locks. Activating the spoilers is a non-event. On the Glasair they are very quiet (though you can hear them, which is good) and cause no pitch change at all. Remember, all you are doing is adding drag, not really spoiling lift. Full deployment at cruise power in the Glasair results in a 1000 fpm descent at 160 knots (my cruise, to put this in perspective, is 190 knots). If I were going to put a similar device on a KR, I'd use one spoiler but two widely-spaced cables to avoid twisting under load. I'd use a piece of 0.040 aluminum the width of the fuselage and perhaps 8-10 inches deep, hinged along the back (longer) side. Mount it so the leading edge of the spoiler is just behind the trailing edge of the lower cowl, which would put the hinge line somewhere under your feet. If someone actually builds one, please let me know how it works. Bob On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 08:15 AM, Ronald Freiberger wrote: > > > re/ belly board but is hinged at the BACK rather than the front > > Robert X., > Your comments are really helpful. A little more, please. The > clothesline > operation certainly is more flexible for actuation. > How far aft ( % of airfoil) is it mounted, and what width (% of > airfoil)? > About how many degrees does it open? > Does it rumble, whistle, or what? > > > > Ron Freiberger... > mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert X. Cringely [mailto:bob@cringely.com] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:11:46 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Donald Blankenship" Subject: Re: KR> Flying with belly boards Message-ID: <20020620191146.46230.qmail@mail.com> Speedbrakes in the form of a simple belly board are an alternative to flaps, but are not used for takeoff. Speedbrakes contribute drag but not lift. At flaps down of 30 degrees or less, flaps do contribute a significant amount of lift which allows a slightly better view over the nose on approach and a shorter takeoff, as well as creating drag to slow the plane down. The design flaps are small, relatively complex to build, and weighty compared to a belly board. On approach, most KR are not lacking in speed or lift and typically float in ground effect hundreds of feet down the runway on landing. I believe a belly board is a good idea as an alternative to flaps. A simple belly board is just a rectangular flat plate with holes in it and hinged at the front for structural minimization. A light-weight board can be constructed out of a sheet of structural foam (preferably better than the green stuff) sandwiched between fiberglass. Several one or two-inch holes in the plate contribute additional drag when the speedbrake is deployed. --Skutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert X. Cringely" Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:32:06 -0700 To: Subject: Re: KR> Flying with belly boards > My KR-1 has neither flaps nor a belly board, so I can't comment on that, > but my Glasair uses belly-mounted spoilers that might be applicable to a > KR. Invented by Lyle Powell, a cranky-but-prolific Glasair innovator > who also did the first wingtip extensions, this spoiler is mounted like > a belly board but is hinged at the BACK rather than the front. > Actuation is through a cable (Lyle used clothesline) with the slipstream > providing all the power to pull down the board. The real effort is to > close it, but that gets progressively less as the spoiler enters the > boundary layer. > > Lyle earlier built a Varieze with a Rutan-style belly board (the > archetype for KR boards) and felt this was lighter, easier to build, and > certainly simpler to operate. I find it is very effective and have had > no problems at all in more than 15 years of use. Of course the low > ground clearance of a KR would probably be a factor, but I think it is > still valuable to throw out this suggestion and see if anyone is > interested. > > > Bob > > > > On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 08:13 AM, wrote: > > > Anyone out there with flying experience using a belly board? Do you > > only use it in descent or all the way to touchdown? Some info would be > > nice. Mine is already built - 10X30 and hinged to the front spar. > > Still have to make handle for it. Would you recomend 15-45 degrees or > > all the way to 90? BILL > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Save up to $160 by signing up for NetZero Platinum Internet service. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=N2P0602NEP8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:46:42 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "rfarmer" Subject: canopy Message-ID: <001901c21871$adad9300$475e62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C21850.258F6500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry Mahurin wrote It sure looks good on paper (or screen). .......... We=20 are opening only one door on the pilots side. By doing only=20 one door and hinging it as far back as you can, you get a=20 larger opening for us old geezers to get in and out of.... Jerry and some others suggested only one door so us old geezers could = get in and out easier and it will also make the canopy stronger and = easier to build. Sounded good to me and I don't have as much natural = shade as I once did so I added some to the canopy. Thanks to all for the = suggestions, this is where the mailing list shines, Have a look at the = new mailing list improved canopy at = http://www.foamhead.com/Builders%20pages/KR2%20Bob%20Farmer.html and see = if that look better. Thanks=20 Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C21850.258F6500-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:35:46 -0500 To: "krnet" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> canopy Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020620223546.00795a80@mail.midwest.net> Jerry and some others suggested only one door so us old geezers could get in and out easier and it will also make the canopy stronger and easier to build >Bob +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I was going with a double gullwing but switched to a single on the pilots side . I had my windshield and turtledeck built and put some plywood over the center for test. It was going to be "tight" on both sides. I went with one gullwing that opens 60% (as measured from one top longeron to the other over the top) of the top. I figure I'll be last in / first out and can help the passanger in and out and it gives a nice large opening . See results on Mark Jone's web site. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:51:53 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> measuring epoxy. Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C21859.40E80A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use the plastic cups (urine sample cups) from Wicks to mix the resin an= d hardner. They have CC levels marked on the cup and before mixxing I use= a black sharpie to mark the lines to make them more visable. I usually m= ark 2 or 3 cups prior to mixxing and mark them at 30, 40, and 60, 80 cc l= evel. This way I can mix 3:1 in small or larger amounts. I keep the resin= and hardner in clear plastic squeeze bottles with flip tops. I squeeze i= n the proper amount of resin 30 or 60cc then the proper amount of hardner= 10 or 20cc. Using the squeeze bottles allows very good control and accur= ate measurments. I've never had a problem with epoxy. Jack Cooper ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C21859.40E80A60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:41:42 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Mode C Message-ID: <20020620.174143.-210423.0.klw1953@juno.com> I have the Ameri King mode C, ATC said that it is showing me 200 ft lower than I really am. Does anybody know if this is adjustable? if so please impart some of your wisdom.---------------------Thanks ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:51:41 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Mode C Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020620225141.00795950@mail.midwest.net> At 05:41 PM 6/20/02 -0400, Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: >I have the Ameri King mode C, ATC said that it is showing me 200 ft lower >than I really am. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ How do you know you're altimeter isn't reading 200 feet too high? You can get the encoder calibrated for $30 to $50 , at least in this part of the country. Go fly formation with someone in an IFR certified aircraft and see which one is in error, or have them both calibrated. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:39:44 -0500 To: kr From: Peg and Mike Meyer Subject: How to modify a servo Message-id: <000901c218ab$65aff5e0$6cfafea9@o0c8u6> --Boundary_(ID_ZPkU0A1Uz4CCJIGWThMMkw) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_EQu9U6qUpdXZs3cScvAY6g)" --Boundary_(ID_EQu9U6qUpdXZs3cScvAY6g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Aaron Sand got me thinking about this servo business again, and I found a website that builders may find very useful in converting standard rc servos into something that can be used on a KR... Mike Meyer By way, thank you Aaron. http://www.rdrop.com/%7Emarvin/explore/servhack.htm --Boundary_(ID_EQu9U6qUpdXZs3cScvAY6g) Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Aaron Sand got me thinking about this servo business again, and I found a website that builders may find very useful in converting standard rc servos into something that can be used on a KR...
 
Mike Meyer
 
By way, thank you Aaron.

 http://www.rdrop.com/%7Emarvin/explore/servhack.htm --Boundary_(ID_EQu9U6qUpdXZs3cScvAY6g)-- --Boundary_(ID_ZPkU0A1Uz4CCJIGWThMMkw)-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:59:30 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: strobes, archive search Message-ID: <004701c218b6$86cc0fb0$7600a8c0@athlon600> KRnetHeads, Jim Hayward pointed out that my 400,000 number was off by a factor of 10,000 or so. That's what I get for operating from memory. Below is something that I posted on strobes 3 years ago, dug up in ten seconds using the new archive system: >>I got the poop on strobes (or at least his slant on it) from the guy at Kuntzleman. He said the FAA requires 400 effective candles (how bright it LOOKS to the eye, which has a lot to do with color, duration, and type of lense installed) and that 10 joules would get you there easily. His systems put out 14 joules. He also said (and several others echoed it) that the FAA has absolutely no way to measure light output, so that practically anything that looks like a strobe will get you past inspection. Having said that, I operate on Jeff Scott's principle that I'd like to be seen as far away as possible. For $228 his "streamlined" dual doubleflash strobes look like the best bang for the buck. The Kuntzleman power supply will also trigger two Whelen or Aeroflash heads, so there's a way to get nav lights and strobes too, using an inexpensive power box. He says they're not PMA'd because it's WAAY too much hassle and too expensive to do, and he's doing it for ultralights and experimentals anyway, who don't need them.<< I have the dual doubleflash power supply on my plane, but I think the flash rate needs to be higher than 66 flashes per minute (that's one double flash per wingtip every two seconds, which is a long time to keep somebody's attention during a scan). I may buy the Aeroflash power supply to fire my Kuntzleman strobe heads faster later on. If you go to Larry Capps' KR archive search engine at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch and key in "candles" or "strobe" you'll get a whole bunch more info on this subject. I can't believe that there have only been 150 hits on that site in the week that it's been there (and half of them are mine). You guys are missing out on a wealth of accumulated knowledge stored there, and it's terribly easy to access it. All you have to do is enter a word of "subject" and hit "submit". Be patient, as it's been slow coming up for me. Many of us would benefit from "testing the waters" using this archive before asking one of those questions that "removes all doubt", or by replying to questions with numbers that are off by a factor of 10,000 or so... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:42:43 -0700 To: From: "The Waldrens" Subject: gear and skins Message-ID: <001801c218b4$2d40da40$88f8fea9@holly---paden-s> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C21879.7FB3E280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. What's wrong with the KR retractable gear? Seems like its less = drag. 2. Should the wing stubs be reinforced so that a guy could stand on = them to get into the plane? Maybe I missed that page, but it seems that one layer of glass = wouldn't be strong enough to stand the weight. Paden Sacramento ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C21879.7FB3E280-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:21:28 -0500 To: From: "Robert Abel" Subject: spar dimensions and weights Message-ID: <001401c218c1$fbabf2e0$6401a8c0@coxinternet.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C21898.0EBDA380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been working on a new spar design which I feel is both lighter = and stronger than what everyone is now using. The question is, how do = I obtain the dimensions for the current spar and the average weight? = Also, is there a software program which will help me with load = calculations? My spar is 2"x8.125"x 96" and tapers to 2"x 5.250". It = weighs slightly over 16 lbs. but could be constructed lighter, and it = will support the weight of a Ford 4wd suspended from its center without = any visable signs of damage externally or internally. Walking along = the length of it without any flex would be no problem as the truck = barely flexes it. Just how strong does a wing spar have to be = anyway????? =20 New @ this Robert =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C21898.0EBDA380-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:38:55 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Donald Blankenship" Subject: Re: KR> spar dimensions and weights Message-ID: <20020621013855.89080.qmail@mail.com> The spar height is set according to the airfoil shape and size. Making the spar taller or shorter would mean it would not fit the airfoil. Making it shorter at all reduces the strength dramatically. Making it narrower would also weaken it. Therefore, using the same materials, it would not be possible to strengthen the spar while making it lighter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Abel" Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:21:28 -0500 To: Subject: KR> spar dimensions and weights > I have been working on a new spar design which I feel is both lighter and stronger than what everyone is now using. The question is, how do I obtain the dimensions for the current spar and the average weight? Also, is there a software program which will help me with load calculations? My spar is 2"x8.125"x 96" and tapers to 2"x 5.250". It weighs slightly over 16 lbs. but could be constructed lighter, and it will support the weight of a Ford 4wd suspended from its center without any visable signs of damage externally or internally. Walking along the length of it without any flex would be no problem as the truck barely flexes it. Just how strong does a wing spar have to be anyway????? > > New @ this Robert > -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Save up to $160 by signing up for NetZero Platinum Internet service. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=N2P0602NEP8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:13:41 -0500 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: OnStar Services [ GPS and cell phone] Message-ID: <001a01c218c9$43367250$d6dc1f41@Administration> GM just announced that they have come to an agreement with RiverPark Inc. to provide OnStar equipment for installation in RV's. This service include: nationwide cell phone, stolen vehicle location, roadside assistance,remote diagnostics, route support, accident reporting. The web site is www.riverparkinc.com OnStar is not on the web site yet, but this has potential for us Recreational Flyers also. The electronic equipment can be purchased form River Park complete with sensors and installed in a aircraft it's 12 vdc. It's 24/7 personal services at a push of a button. [ Have you seen the Batman commercials?] I know some of you don't know what this is but I do and it will someday be in alot of cars, RV's and aircraft. Other stuff is also sold on the River Park site also. KRRon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:40:57 -0500 To: "KR-Net" , "CorvAircraft" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: EAA Oshkosh Forums Message-ID: <007101c218cd$12e2a200$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C218A3.29B8ADA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just talked to William Wynne a few minutes ago. He has been in Oshkosh = at EAA yesterday and today finalizing his forum schedule. You can check = his schedule by visiting this link and searching under presenter name. = Oh yea, they sure posted one hell of a photo of him there also. Click = here: http://www.airventure.org/forums/default.asp Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C218A3.29B8ADA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:46:44 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: mixing epoxy Message-ID: <20020621024644.20564.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I also use large syringes that I buy at the local co-op to measure epoxy and hardener. It's the most accurate way I've found besides using scales. I cut a small notch in the top of the one used for hardener so I can identify which is which. The hole in the bottom is drilled out larger to make it easier to pull up epoxy out of the container. After use I store them in the plastic case that comes with them. They only cost about $1.00 each. Thanks, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:21:19 -0500 To: "KR Net Listings" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass on fuselage/epoxy Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020620222119.0084bb00@mail.midwest.net> >But what then ,is the thin type of cloth you are using?? >Phil Matheson. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I used "Deck Cloth" (Wick's catalog, 2001, page 19, ). Wick's discription; 50" width, 1.45 oz. per sq. yd. threads per inch: 60 length x 47 width. Commonly used over wood or plywood or last layer of fiberglass lay up giving the surface a fine weave for finishing. This cloth has the finish that I'd compare to a silk stocking. I'm "guessing" the deck cloth saves more than it's weight and the bit extra resin by having to use less fill to fill the weave of the KR cloth over the foam and I'm also "guessing" it's as light as anything else you will use to seal/finish the plywood. I'd bet it is the same stuff that Bingelis found at the hobby shop or something very close. If you lay it on over your wet glass lay up and dry brush it, it will get about half the resin it needs from the KR cloth. Pull any wrinkles out to the edges. I ran some real quick numbers and I'm estimating that the cloth and an equal amount of resin would add 1.5 pounds to BOTH outer wing panels. How much fill will you use on the KR cloth for both wings, top and bottom? After Safety Poxy II was discontinued, I tried the epoxy that Wick's was replacing it with and had some bad reactions on my hands, even wearing gloves. I next switched to West Systems 105/206 because a friend had some left over and had the pumps. I am more than happy with the results. The pumps are the only way to go. Less than $20 from Wick's. One pump from each can and stir. No scales, no guessing , no worry, and for me no problems. Speaking of pumps, I have a $250 pump with a 100:47 (I think. It's the old Safety Poxy rato) mix and it is not the adjustable kind. Can anyone think of a reason I shouldn't trash it. I've not seen any other epoxies with that mix. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************