From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 11 Jul 2002 12:38:59 -0000 Issue 472 Date: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:39 AM krnet Digest 11 Jul 2002 12:38:59 -0000 Issue 472 Topics (messages 11364 through 11393): First KR-2S 11364 by: Aaron Patrick Sand 11365 by: Mark Langford Kr2 for sale... 11366 by: doug d PIC insurance 11367 by: Thomas C Adams fuel tank leaks 11368 by: Joseph H Horton 11381 by: Joseph H Horton 11382 by: Dana Overall Re: speed 11369 by: Mark Langford 11379 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11380 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11383 by: Dana Overall 11388 by: Mark Langford 11390 by: Daniel Heath RE:WAF'S AGAIN? 11370 by: ace nunye 11371 by: Mark Langford 11373 by: Robert X. Cringely 11375 by: Ronald Freiberger Arlington NW EAA Fly-in 11372 by: Buddy & Cheryl WAF'S AGAIN? 11374 by: Larry A. Capps 11378 by: Robert X. Cringely Buy 0-200 get an airplane free! 11376 by: BSHADR WAF's 11377 by: LewisAZ Canopy 11384 by: Mark Jones 11385 by: Mark Langford 11389 by: Daniel Heath Leak checking fueltanks 11386 by: JOHN WENZ Re: Apology 11387 by: Mark Jones Re: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! 11391 by: Bob Farmer 11392 by: Bob Farmer KR-100 11393 by: Mark Langford Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:25:04 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Aaron Patrick Sand" Subject: First KR-2S Message-ID: I remember seeing a KR-2S in an old issue (maybe two years ago) of Kitplanes under the "Completions" section. If my memory serves me correctly, it was built by Jeff Bryson, and the caption said it was the first plans built KR-2S. He also said that he got the advertised cruise speed at 75% power, and he had a Great Plains (I think) 2180 VW. Kind of got me excited when I read that! He must be pretty close to the specified empty weight. I think it was tri-gear, too. I'm running off memory here, so I'll try and find the issue and double check. -Aaron Sand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:02:05 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> First KR-2S Message-ID: <000801c22772$bd841460$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Aaron Sand wrote: > I remember seeing a KR-2S in an old issue (maybe two years ago) of Kitplanes > under the "Completions" section. If my memory serves me correctly, it was > built by Jeff Bryson, and the caption said it was the first plans built KR-2S. Below is something I found in the archives that I wrote in Oct 97, so that should give us a clue as to which Newsletter issue to look in for more details about this airplane. I'll check into it tonight... ------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:55:25 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: KRNet? KRNetHeads, Just got the most recent Newsletter. I never cease to be amazed how Monte can write up the Gathering and not mention KRNet even ONCE! The word internet was mentioned by Jeff Bryson, who said "My canopy mechanism is ala Roy Marsh and off the internet" (I wonder where he saw that?). And Randy will be proud to know that he's been called Mark Stein again. I guess I should take credit for that, because I know that every time he thinks KRNet or Internet, he gets a pain deep down low, named Mark... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:33:27 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: doug d Subject: Kr2 for sale... Message-ID: <20020708223327.3069.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all. Well, after mulling this over for about a year now, i'm going to sell my Kr2. It is still in the "boat" stage, and in my opinion, is in the perfect stage for a new or experienced builder to take over. If you want to complete with the new airfoil, you still can. The spars are complete, the stub wings are done all with WAF's on, but the stub wing skins aren't attached yet. Aileron bellcranks are in. The quality of the work so far is very nice, you can see it. The horizontal stab is ready to go on. I just didn't get it done last fall before school started again. The vertical stab needs to be finished, but have preformed skins. The rudder is done, the elevator is done, with trim tab. The rudder/elevator hinges are done. The fuselage has been stretched 20 inches in the back, but you can't tell until you measure it. The shoulder width of the fuselage is also larger for those of you who don't want to fly in a cessna 150... Have the flap handle/selector, and some miscellaneous parts. My plans and serial number are from June 2001. Since i've gone back to school, i havent had the time to work on her at all. Which is a shame, i know. Because she is a beautiful aircraft. Don't have the landing gear. Was going to use tricycle gear from Grove Aircraft Company, but didn't purchase it yet. The aircraft is in Rapid City, SD. If you or someone you know is interested in this purchase, please email me at Kr2man@rushmore.com I will sell at a very reasonable price, i'm not looking to recoup any labor costs here, but will be fair with the price... You can transport it in a Chevy S10 pickup with some ingenuity... Thanks Kr-netters, and thanks Mark Langford for all your help. I'll stay on the Krnet for now... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:36:50 -0500 To: From: "Thomas C Adams" Subject: PIC insurance Message-ID: <002701c22799$1fc3cb40$2ccdacd1@tomadams> ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2276F.3531BB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable where is a good source for this type insurance? tom ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2276F.3531BB60-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:01:47 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Joseph H Horton Subject: fuel tank leaks Message-ID: <20020709.210148.-154281.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Dana, Coangradulation on one leak, but you proably know that for every sucess there alot of failures. I just tested my 1st stub wing tank and had 2 leaks trouble is I had the top all ready for glass. Mine are built very much like Mark L.'s I just finished cutting out some of the top and I floxed one that I found. Then I'll retest to locate the other. I'm pretty sure that the cause of my leaks was interference of the tank skin not being completely clear of the landing gear casting and that kept it from squishing down tight. Good luck on your metal KR, the progress looks great. Joe Horton-KR2S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:07:26 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Joseph H Horton Subject: Re: KR> fuel tank leaks Message-ID: <20020710.200726.-222625.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Jim, I have a vent line out of each wing tank that I put a large balloon ( inflated) on and capped off the line to the fuel pump. I found my 2nd leak last night. Mine were real obvious and after more cutting and checking I'm positive that the skin was touching the gear bracket and 1 bolt from the wing attach fitting. Very slightly but just enough that the lid didn't seal down in 2 corners. The only thing that I can say is make double sure that the lid fits in between the spars with out any interference Good luck -- Joe Horton (I think I'll call my plane " Patch") > Jo, > I'm also building a stub wing like Mark L. I'm ready to glass > the top > of the tank on. How did you test your tank for leaks? I would > realy not > like to fill it with fuel. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Jim Morehead > Cameron Park, CA > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:57:25 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> fuel tank leaks Message-ID: While a ballon will certainly help provide pressure to assist in checking for tank leak, it does have it's limitations. A ballon will expand and contract based on the prevailing temp and the time. A ballon will also seap air through it walls. A better way to do this is make yourself a manometer. It's a very simple process using some clear flex tube, food coloring in water and your lungs. You don't need much pressure in a tank to find a leak, ex.: 4lbs is way too much. You'll need to experiment a little to mind the right level so you don't blow the water out the top of the tube when you pressurize. Just pressurize through the vent or pickup line and hook the other one to the flex tube with water. Record the water level on the tube and let her sit. Hate to bring this up, but you can go to matronics.com search and type in manometer. You will find bucoos of sites illustrating wonderful setups. Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:12:17 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <004201c2280b$099d72e0$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Does anybody know Roy Marsh's phone number, or exactly where he lives in CA? I talked to him several years ago about his plane and its modifications, but can't find the number now, and would like to ask him about his empty weight. Ron Lee (the present owner) appears to have moved since late last year when I last talked to him. He WAS in Falcon, Colorado, near Colorado Springs. Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:33:25 -0400 To: bo124rs@hotmail.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <20020710.160132.-366051.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Not what I heard from J Rand at lakeland a while back, Virg On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:59:58 -0400 "Dana Overall" writes: > Virg, I hate to disagree with you but I have too respectfully do so. > > That KR?? was built before S plans. The builder stretched the fush, > put on > a drangonfly canopy and didn't even use the RAF48 airfoil. This > airplane > had a full VFR instrument panel, belly board, upholstery and a turbo > VW > conversion. This airplane was not even close to 500lbs. I believe > someone > on the list (don't know if they still are) bought this airplance but > hasn't > flown it much at all. Maybe we could get a weight. > > Little ironic RR advertises as a KR, an airplane that doesn't even > use the > RAF48 but the Bonanza wing..........also put on Mike Mim's Sky Pig. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > http://rvflying.tripod.com > > > >From: virgnvs@juno.com > >To: newtech@newtech.com > >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org > >Subject: Re: KR> speed > >Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:42:37 -0400 > > > > > >On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:16:52 -0500 (CDT) Steven Eberhart > > writes: > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > The first plans built KR2S was within the weight > called > > > for, Virg > > > > > > > > > > Hi Virg, > > > > > > Who's plane was it? Do you recall what it weighed in at? > > > > > > Steve Eberhart > > > > > Hi Steve, the grey and white picture in the RR ads, Virg > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > > > all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > 7 Emp. wings ordered > http://63.69.213.180/newtech/danas_airplane_factory/project.html > do not archive > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.msn.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:39:01 -0400 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <20020710.160132.-366051.1.virgnvs@juno.com> YHX, Virg On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:07:45 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > > > Who's plane was it? Do you recall what it weighed in at? > > > > > > Steve Eberhart > > > > > Hi Steve, the grey and white picture in the RR ads, Virg > > > > I suspected as much. I don't know if I'd call Roy Marsh's plane the > first > "plan built KR2S". The reality of it is that his tail feathers are > stock KR2 > size, his wingspan is two feet shorter, and the airfoil is a 23012 > rather > than the RAF48 airfoil called for in the plans. About the only thing > that > his plane has to do with the KR2S is that's where the foward and aft > deck > molds were pulled from, and it has the 14" extended tail and 2" > extention > forward of the main spar that were later incorporated into the > drawings. > > I always get a kick out of the advertisement for the KR2S and the > battle cry > of "keep it per the plans", when the KR2S poster child is so > radically > different! It's also a far cry from 520 pounds! The impressive top > speed is > due to some serious attention to aerodynamic details and the lower > drag of > the thinner wing, as well as the turbocharged Revmaster 2180cc > engine. By > the way, the Kitplanes article mentioned that he got 5 gph at > cruise, which > somehow doesn't match up with the advertised 4 gph. And anybody > that can > land his plane in less than 600 feet can count on a crisp new > hundred dollar > bill from me! Ron Lee from Colorado owns it now, but I don't know > that he > flies it. > > I wrote the comments above several hours ago (before Dana's > comments), but > was going to wait until after I could do some research during > lunchtime to > send it, because I believe I remember hearing that Roy's plane was > around > 700 pounds. He's not at home right now, but I'll call him tonight > and find > out for sure. > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:09:58 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: >From: virgnvs@juno.com > Not what I heard from J Rand at lakeland a while back, Virg > Sorry Virg, there are a lot of us who know a lot about this airplane. You can't even dream this one into being a featherweight. Roy even wished he had made the emp. larger. Non RAF48 airfoil, dragonfly canopy, turbo made for a real heck of an airplane though........ Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:33:20 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <002d01c2287a$f0dd20a0$0100a8c0@TD310> SpeedFreaks, I talked to Roy Marsh this afternoon. Man, that guy is SHARP for 84 years old! And a joy to talk to. Said he just got back from New Mexico or somewhere flying his 48 V-tail Bonanza! And he's looking to buy his alltime favorite, a Culver Cadet. Anyway, he couldn't remember what his plane weighed, but I don't blame him there. A search through the archives turned up a comment from Mike Stearns in 1997 saying that he "thought" it weighed "about" 580 pounds, but I'm very skeptical. I'd talked to him several years ago and he remembered who I was, and the conversation. He said the airfoil was actually a MODIFIED 23012 (he said it still looked too thick to him), so he guessed that it ended up being something like a 9% 23009! He used every trick in the book to make his plane as aerodynamic as possible. Both he and his sons were fighter pilots, and his son (an aeronautical engineer) helped a lot with the design work. That might have something to do with that 190 mph top speed at SNF! I didn't ask him about the molds, because I'd just found that out from talking to Jeannette. Rather than pulling molds from his finished plane, she said they used his plane to take measurements and do trial fitups to make the plugs for the decks, with the understanding that he would get the first parts (which he did). So the reality is that the new KR2S parts were made from measurements, rather than pulled directly from an actual KR2S. Roy's wasn't even extended 2" in the front, so he had to chop two inches off of his new forward deck to make it fit. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:19:49 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> speed Message-ID: Virg, Could you please say that in English? Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:39 PM To: langford@hiwaay.net Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> speed YHX, Virg On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:07:45 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > > > Who's plane was it? Do you recall what it weighed in at? > > > > > > Steve Eberhart > > > > > Hi Steve, the grey and white picture in the RR ads, Virg > > > > I suspected as much. I don't know if I'd call Roy Marsh's plane the > first > "plan built KR2S". The reality of it is that his tail feathers are > stock KR2 > size, his wingspan is two feet shorter, and the airfoil is a 23012 > rather > than the RAF48 airfoil called for in the plans. About the only thing > that > his plane has to do with the KR2S is that's where the foward and aft > deck > molds were pulled from, and it has the 14" extended tail and 2" > extention > forward of the main spar that were later incorporated into the > drawings. > > I always get a kick out of the advertisement for the KR2S and the > battle cry > of "keep it per the plans", when the KR2S poster child is so > radically > different! It's also a far cry from 520 pounds! The impressive top > speed is > due to some serious attention to aerodynamic details and the lower > drag of > the thinner wing, as well as the turbocharged Revmaster 2180cc > engine. By > the way, the Kitplanes article mentioned that he got 5 gph at > cruise, which > somehow doesn't match up with the advertised 4 gph. And anybody > that can > land his plane in less than 600 feet can count on a crisp new > hundred dollar > bill from me! Ron Lee from Colorado owns it now, but I don't know > that he > flies it. > > I wrote the comments above several hours ago (before Dana's > comments), but > was going to wait until after I could do some research during > lunchtime to > send it, because I believe I remember hearing that Roy's plane was > around > 700 pounds. He's not at home right now, but I'll call him tonight > and find > out for sure. > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:08:57 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "ace nunye" Subject: RE:WAF'S AGAIN? Message-ID: I hate to start kickin a dead horse again, but, wouldnt permanently glassing the outer wings on to the stubs give a very substantial increase in strength? I have the deihl skins and I plan on glassing them onto the stubs, this should give a lot more strength. Comments anyone? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:45:03 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> RE:WAF'S AGAIN? Message-ID: <000e01c22817$ff3f69e0$5f0ca58c@mlangford> ace nunye wrote: > I hate to start kickin a dead horse again, but, wouldnt permanently glassing > the outer wings on to the stubs give a very substantial increase in > strength? I have the deihl skins and I plan on glassing them onto the stubs, > this should give a lot more strength. Comments anyone? I think what Don Reid was saying in his analysis is that the spruce surrounding the 3/16" WAF bolts is going to crush, and that's the limiting factor of the system. So the skin strength is a moot point. It occured to me the other day that one of the benefits of going with the thicker AS5048 airfoil is the spar spacing is greater, reducing those spruce-crushing loads as a result. Also, I talked to Dr. Dean the other night, and we may make the next batch of TET WAFs utilizing Don's recommended 1/4" bolts, with slightly larger outside WAF dimensions to address the minimum material conditions surrounding them, just out of pure prudence. I also think it's important to mention that there has never been a reported spar or WAF failure on a KR (to my knowledge), and there are some pretty heavy ones out there doing some pretty amazing things... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:15:14 -0700 To: From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> RE:WAF'S AGAIN? Message-Id: There WAS a spar failure of the GB-2, a rip-off KR-2 clone, at the first KR Gathering in Pope Valley , CA around 1980. I'm not sure this failure actually proves anything, but since I was there at the time the story probably bears repeating. The GB-2 was a KR-2 with entirely pre-molded skins. Jeanette Rand hired a guy to do some glass parts for the KR-2 (not the current parts, by the way). He built molds, made some fairly lousy parts for Jeanette (if you ever bought a KR-1 turbo cowl, you know what I mean -- it was close to useless the trimming was so bad) but then claimed ownership of the molds. Jeanette, who felt that she had paid for the molds and ought to own them, was furious. Then it got even worse when the guy announced his new kitplane, the GB-2. It used ripped-off KR-2 plans, parts made from molds paid for by Jeanette and additional parts from other molds. A few ads ran in Sport Aviation. Jeanette's response was to take her business to Jim Kern at Task Research. She paid for a completely new set of molds (the current ones) which were much better quality and which were clearly owned by Rand-Robinson. Meanwhile, the GB-2 guy, whose name I forget, apparently decided that the KR Gathering was a good place to introduce his aircraft and sell a few kits. Alas, the Gathering was only six weeks away. No problemo. He built a prototype GB-2 in six weeks using parts gathered here and there and "flying off" the required test time with a Bic pen. At the Gathering, the guy spent much of one day doing fast diving passes at 240 IAS (I took one of those rides and that's the number I saw). Understand that the GB-2 builder weighed substantially over 200 lbs. In the afternoon, the wind picked up and things got quite bumpy. Many people stopped flying, but not the GB-2. I was standing next to Rex Taylor of Hapi Engines when the GB-2 passed down the flight line and shed a wing, immediately rolling into the ground and tumbling a short distance. There were no survivors. The GB-2 builder was dead, of course, as was his female passenger. So much for the GB-2. The crash investigation found that the front center section spar had failed in compression on one side. The problem wasn't the spar design and it wasn't the attach fittings or the bolts. To make the Gathering, the GB-2 guy had used a center section spar rejected by another builder who had made a mistake drilling the WAF holes. The GB-2 guy HADN'T BOTHERED TO FILL THE BAD HOLES and just drilled new ones alongside, weakening the wood and leading to the compression failure. A few hardwood dowels and a little epoxy and that guy might be here today. It is a testament to the KR over design, I suppose, that this guy was able to spend a whole morning doing 4-G pull-ups at 240 IAS at least 200 lbs over gross (I later heard the GB-2 prototype empty weight was around 800 lbs.). It wasn't until a little turbulence was added that the wretched thing finally fell apart. By the way, that was my second and last ride in a KR-2, the first being an equally scary experience with Kenny Rand. Since then it has been all KR-1 and the only idiot in the cockpit has been me. Bob At 8:45 AM -0500 7/10/02, Mark Langford wrote: > > >I also think it's important to mention that there has never been a reported >spar or WAF failure on a KR (to my knowledge), and there are some pretty >heavy ones out there doing some pretty amazing things... > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:35:29 -0400 To: "KRNET" , "ace nunye" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> RE:WAF'S AGAIN? Message-ID: Strengthening something where it isn't needed may only pass the load on to another member. In this case, it probably won't cause an unforseen problem, but maybe it's better to follow established design practices, and not make a solution until you can identify a problem. One problem I have seen in several aircraft is weird low speed handling due to leakage at a loose fitting stub-to-wing cuff. You'll sure fix that, but so will dict tape. ;o) Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:09:02 -0700 To: From: "Buddy & Cheryl" Subject: Arlington NW EAA Fly-in Message-ID: <002c01c2281b$58382de0$1e02a8c0@WorkGroup> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C227E0.AB6CFF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are any of you that are building or flying KR-2's planning on showing up = at the fly-in? It starts today and runs through Sunday. You couldn't ask = for better weather, the sky is clear blue and the weather forecast = predicts more of the same through out the week. I'm planning on taking = my Grandson with me on Friday and then by myself all day Saturday. Hope = to meet some KR folks at the usual place by the barbeque pit Saturday = morning. I'll be wearing the gathering shirt I got last year at the Pine = Bluff Arkansas gathering. http://www.nweaa.org/ Hope to see you there. Bud Midkiff Lynnwood, WA=20 KR-2 Stretched Cellular: 206-719-3352 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C227E0.AB6CFF80-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:25:58 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: WAF'S AGAIN? Message-ID: <000701c2282e$797bac30$0600a8c0@schpankme> Let me jump in here and provide further information about the GB-1 crash. Gary Boyd (Sport Aircraft Parts) is were the name GB-1 comes from, as he produced most of the fiberglass parts used to create the plane which crashed at the KR Gathering in Pope Valley , CA 1981. Brad Hummel and Rocky Webster built the GB-1 (it was a two place) from a mixture of KR, GB and various other ideas in 24 days, and registered it as a GB-1. Ernest Koppe gave them a complete set of spars and use of his workshop (there was no room inside for their project, so they built outside in the back alley). Work began April 6, 1981 Final inspection April 28, 1981 Empty Weight 529 lbs. Engine VW 1835cc Events as reported be Ernest Koppe (KR Newsletter #73, July 1981) Sunday dawned to clear skies and wind 15 to 20 knots and gusting. We were awakened to the sound of engines as Brad Hummel, who had arrived in a GB-1, Wes Evans, and Rick Todd were in the air in spite of the windy conditions. Once again we were thrilled to see the reasons we were spending our time and money on seemingly endless projects. They could be finished...they could be flown...here was proof right in front of our eyes...it was indeed a great fly-in. The Fly-In ended Sunday morning...Brad Hummel and Patty Helton were killed when the GB-1 they were flying seemed to explode in mid-air as they were about to make a high speed fly-by. Shock and disbelief was the first re-action felt by everyone watching; That such a thing could happen was unthinkable. It took only a few minutes to confirm the worst possible outcome. Brad and Patty were dead, the plane a total loss. The Fly-in dissolved after that. People who had been enjoying themselves so much the previous day were somberly gathering up their belongings and were going home. There are lessons to be learned from this accident and its causes. As in any accident it is hard to point to any one thing and say "this caused the accident". Accidents are usually caused by a series of events that culminate into the final outcome. This is true of this accident also. Many people have said the airplane was built too fast (24 days) therefore couldn't be safe. Not true. The plane was built using several pre-made components, hence the shorter building time. Some said the spar broke because it was patched and re-drilled....maybe....but it broke first at new and un-patched holes. The F.A.A. and N.T.S.B. conducted their own investigation of the accident and preliminary findings were....Pilot exceeded airframe (Vne) limits in extremely turbulent windy conditions. Flutter apparently developed in the right aileron, as part of the aileron skin was found 200 yds before the crash. The aileron weight broke off and was never recovered. Whether it came off before or after the aileron fluttered is unknown. (It was the angle that held the weight to the spar that broke and not the spar itself.) This happened at an estimated airspeed of between 220 and 240 mph. At this time the canopy must have separated, probably due to vibrations induced by flutter, since it also was found well away from and before the wreckage. Then the center forward spar broke at the landing gear hinge attach point and the aircraft disintegrated. All this took place in a matter of one to two seconds and the actual order in which events took place are conjecture. The only thing we're sure of is Brad and Patty are no longer with us. That leaves us with a question. While it was a GB-1 that crashed, could it happen to our KRs? My answer to that is...certainly! The GB-1 and the KR-2 share many of the same construction techniques and the center spar that broke was from a KR project that had not been finished. Given the same circumstances i.e. a 220 mph airspeed, strong gusting winds, and the exuberance of a pilot in a fast airplane....I'm not sure what kind of aircraft could have held together. Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL mailto:lacapps@attbi.com -----Original Message----- There WAS a spar failure of the GB-2, a rip-off KR-2 clone, at the first KR Gathering in Pope Valley , CA around 1980. The GB-2 was a KR-2 with entirely pre-molded skins. Meanwhile, the GB-2 guy, whose name I forget, apparently decided that the KR Gathering was a good place to introduce his aircraft and sell a few kits. He built a prototype GB-2 in six weeks using parts gathered here and there and "flying off" the required test time with a Bic pen. At the Gathering, the guy spent much of one day doing fast diving passes at 240 IAS (I took one of those rides and that's the number I saw). In the afternoon, the wind picked up and things got quite bumpy. Many people stopped flying, but not the GB-2. I was standing next to Rex Taylor of Hapi Engines when the GB-2 passed down the flight line and shed a wing, immediately rolling into the ground and tumbling a short distance. There were no survivors. The GB-2 builder was dead, of course, as was his female passenger. So much for the GB-2. The crash investigation found that the front center section spar had failed in compression on one side. The problem wasn't the spar design and it wasn't the attach fittings or the bolts. To make the Gathering, the GB-2 guy had used a center section spar rejected by another builder who had made a mistake drilling the WAF holes. The GB-2 guy HADN'T BOTHERED TO FILL THE BAD HOLES and just drilled new ones alongside, weakening the wood and leading to the compression failure. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:03:57 -0700 To: , From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> WAF'S AGAIN? Message-Id: Thanks for the clarification and sorry that my 21 year old memory was off by a little. Bob At 11:25 AM -0500 7/10/02, Larry A. Capps wrote: >Let me jump in here and provide further information about the GB-1 crash. > >Gary Boyd (Sport Aircraft Parts) is were the name GB-1 comes from, as he >produced most of the fiberglass parts used to create the plane which crashed >at the KR Gathering in Pope Valley , CA 1981. > >Brad Hummel and Rocky Webster built the GB-1 (it was a two place) from a >mixture of KR, GB and various other ideas in 24 days, and registered it as a >GB-1. > >Ernest Koppe gave them a complete set of spars and use of his workshop >(there was no room inside for their project, so they built outside in the >back alley). > > Work began April 6, 1981 > Final inspection April 28, 1981 > > Empty Weight 529 lbs. > Engine VW 1835cc > > >Events as reported be Ernest Koppe (KR Newsletter #73, July 1981) > > Sunday dawned to clear skies and wind 15 to 20 knots and >gusting. We were >awakened to the sound of engines as Brad Hummel, who had arrived in a GB-1, >Wes Evans, and Rick Todd were in the air in spite of the windy conditions. >Once >again we were thrilled to see the reasons we were spending our time and >money on >seemingly endless projects. They could be finished...they could be >flown...here was >proof right in front of our eyes...it was indeed a great fly-in. > > The Fly-In ended Sunday morning...Brad Hummel and Patty >Helton were killed >when the GB-1 they were flying seemed to explode in mid-air as they were >about to make a high speed fly-by. Shock and disbelief was the first >re-action felt by everyone watching; That such a thing could happen was >unthinkable. It took only a few minutes to confirm the worst possible >outcome. Brad and Patty were dead, the plane a total loss. The Fly-in >dissolved after that. People who had been enjoying themselves so much the >previous day were somberly gathering up their belongings and were going >home. > > There are lessons to be learned from this accident and its >causes. As in >any accident it is hard to point to any one thing and say "this caused the >accident". Accidents are usually caused by a series of events that culminate >into the final outcome. This is true of this accident also. Many people have >said the airplane was built too fast (24 days) therefore couldn't be safe. >Not true. The plane was built using several pre-made components, hence the >shorter building time. Some said the spar broke because it was patched and >re-drilled....maybe....but it broke first at new and un-patched holes. > > The F.A.A. and N.T.S.B. conducted their own investigation of >the accident >and preliminary findings were....Pilot exceeded airframe (Vne) limits in >extremely turbulent windy conditions. Flutter apparently developed in the >right aileron, as part of the aileron skin was found 200 yds before the >crash. The aileron weight broke off and was never recovered. Whether it came >off before or after the aileron fluttered is unknown. (It was the angle that >held the weight to the spar that broke and not the spar itself.) This >happened at an estimated airspeed of between 220 and 240 mph. At this time >the canopy must have separated, probably due to vibrations induced by >flutter, since it also was found well away from and before the wreckage. >Then the center forward spar broke at the landing gear hinge attach point >and the aircraft disintegrated. All this took place in a matter of one to >two seconds and the actual order in which events took place are conjecture. >The only thing we're sure of is Brad and Patty are no longer with us. > >That leaves us with a question. While it was a GB-1 that crashed, could it >happen to our KRs? > >My answer to that is...certainly! The GB-1 and the KR-2 share many of the >same construction techniques and the center spar that broke was from a KR >project that had not been finished. Given the same circumstances i.e. a 220 >mph airspeed, strong gusting winds, and the exuberance of a pilot in a fast >airplane....I'm not sure what kind of aircraft could have held together. > >Regards, > >Larry A. Capps >KR Newsletter >Naperville, IL >mailto:lacapps@attbi.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >There WAS a spar failure of the GB-2, a rip-off KR-2 clone, at the >first KR Gathering in Pope Valley , CA around 1980. > >The GB-2 was a KR-2 with entirely pre-molded skins. > >Meanwhile, the GB-2 guy, whose name I forget, apparently decided that >the KR Gathering was a good place to introduce his aircraft and sell >a few kits. > >He built a prototype GB-2 in six weeks using parts >gathered here and there and "flying off" the required test time with >a Bic pen. > >At the Gathering, the guy spent much of one day doing >fast diving passes at 240 IAS (I took one of those rides and that's >the number I saw). > >In the afternoon, the wind picked up and >things got quite bumpy. > >Many people stopped flying, but not the >GB-2. > >I was standing next to Rex Taylor of Hapi Engines when the >GB-2 passed down the flight line and shed a wing, immediately rolling >into the ground and tumbling a short distance. There were no >survivors. > >The GB-2 builder was dead, of course, as was his female passenger. >So much for the GB-2. > >The crash investigation found that the front >center section spar had failed in compression on one side. The >problem wasn't the spar design and it wasn't the attach fittings or >the bolts. > >To make the Gathering, the GB-2 guy had used a center >section spar rejected by another builder who had made a mistake >drilling the WAF holes. > >The GB-2 guy HADN'T BOTHERED TO FILL THE BAD >HOLES and just drilled new ones alongside, weakening the wood and >leading to the compression failure. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:10:57 -0700 To: From: "BSHADR" Subject: Buy 0-200 get an airplane free! Message-ID: <002f01c2282c$6099cf00$d7e47e18@RMS> ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C227F1.B3DF6980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks: For the diehard "airplane engine" crowd, you can buy an 0-200 and get an = airplane FREE. <> This was an FYI to our EAA Chapter. I know nothing about the project, = but it may be a cheap way to get in the air fast! Randy Stein South Soviet Monica, CA Confidence: "That quality which permits an individual to do crossword = puzzles with a pen" =20 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C227F1.B3DF6980-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:48:52 -0700 To: From: "LewisAZ" Subject: WAF's Message-ID: <003401c22831$ae227ec0$edcc8044@net> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C227F6.FFF6D600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't know this will help, but I know for fact the wing and WAF's will = take the loads if made right. I have the KR100 from Kevin Kelly, we = raced it in Reno and other places.To race the plane you have to do a = sustained 5 g pull on the airframe, every two years.It qualified in Reno = @262 one year.It has the KR 2 wing. If this helps. cool ! Doug ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C227F6.FFF6D600-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:22:06 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Canopy Message-ID: <005501c22879$5f372ac0$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C2284F.762EC820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellow Builders, I am at the stage where it is time to make a decision (and a quick = decision might I add) how to hinge my canopy to the plane. I have a full = one piece Dragonfly canopy to mount. The frame work is nearing = completion and now is the time to attach it to the plane. I have debated = on side hinge, forward hinge and am now looking at rear hinge which will = allow the canopy to raise from the front and tilt rearward. Has anyone = seen a canopy done this way on a KR? What are the pros and cons? = Please...all comments are welcome on the rear tilt canopy idea. Thanks, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C2284F.762EC820-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:24:49 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Canopy Message-ID: <001c01c22879$c0ea0030$0100a8c0@TD310> Mark Jones wrote: >>I am at the stage where it is time to make a decision (and a quick decision might I add) how to hinge my canopy to the plane.<< Mark, check out John Martindale's plane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jmartindale/ . This is THE way to do the job! I've been advocating this method for years, but John was the first to actually do it as far as I know. This will be as strong as the day is long, and will keep the canopy from wiggling around like mine is prone to doing. I highly recommend it. I recently visited Gene Knight in Gulf Shores last week, and he's designed a similar system for his nice winglet tipped KR2S (the one at the last Gathering). He hasn't done it yet, but next chance he gets, hes going to dump his system (which is very similar to mine) and go for the new way... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:17:25 -0700 To: "KR-Net" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Canopy Message-ID: I think that it would be very difficult to get in the plane with a rear tilt. Now a rear slide is really nice. John Martindale's looks really simple and efficient. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Mark Jones [mailto:flykr2s@wi.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:22 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> Canopy Fellow Builders, I am at the stage where it is time to make a decision (and a quick decision might I add) how to hinge my canopy to the plane. I have a full one piece Dragonfly canopy to mount. The frame work is nearing completion and now is the time to attach it to the plane. I have debated on side hinge, forward hinge and am now looking at rear hinge which will allow the canopy to raise from the front and tilt rearward. Has anyone seen a canopy done this way on a KR? What are the pros and cons? Please...all comments are welcome on the rear tilt canopy idea. Thanks, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:28:19 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "JOHN WENZ" Subject: Leak checking fueltanks Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C22858.B61110C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We use to use a Pitot/static box to check fuel tanks. A airspeed indicato= r is all that is needed. What is nice about using an airspeed indicator i= s it will adjust for barometric pressure change. Its also great for check= ing the pressure differential in your cowling. Ok, I'm heading for the foxhole. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C22858.B61110C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:34:35 -0500 To: "KR-Net" , From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: Apology Message-ID: <007e01c2287b$1d3e3620$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C22851.34250AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matt, I have spoken with several folks concerning Matronics and the effort you = are giving to aviation groups. I feel I have over reacted with my harsh = comments towards Matronics and you and ask you to accept my apology. I = guess I spoke before I thought and learned what you are doing. Anyway, = my apologies and my hats off to you for your efforts. I just strongly = feel our KR Net is working in prime time right now and I was distraught = with the idea of seeing it change again. Thanks=20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C22851.34250AA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:49:32 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Fw: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! Message-ID: <004001c228c0$44067160$e05f62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2289E.BAE4DD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Digital Authoring Tools - Free Software Alert!I don't know if this would = be a help in publishing an on line newsletter but it might be worth a = look. Bob Farmer rfarmer@naxs.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Free=20 To: rfarmer@naxs.net=20 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:27 AM Subject: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! FREE SOFTWARE! LIMITED TIME OFFER!* =20 Digital Authoring Tools offers FREE software that can help you = CREATE PROFESSIONAL, 3D page-turning and slide-show style digital = brochures, documents, books, catalogs, invitations, photo albums, = resumes, newsletters, menus, email promotions, magazines, presentations = and more! For more info, samples or a free download, click the appropriate = link below! Server demand is extremely high for this limited time free = software offer. You may need to try these links frequently.=20 =20 FREE DOWNLOAD MORE INFO SAMPLES UNSUBSCRIBE=20 DOWNLOAD 1 DOWNLOAD 2 MIRROR site 1 MIRROR site 2 SAMPLES site 1 SAMPLES site 2 UnSubscribe 1 UnSubscribe 2 =20 Click here to UnSubscribe Copyright =A9 2002 - Affiliate ID #1269 *FREE Version is FULLY FUNCTIONAL with NO EXPIRATION and has a 4 = page limit=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2289E.BAE4DD20-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:24:50 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> Fw: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! Message-ID: <006001c228cd$93148f00$e05f62d8@oemcomputer> Well that didn't work! Here are the links but I never could get on the site. Hope you have better luck. Maybe 3 AM. http://us-downloadsoftware.now.co.com.cn. http://www.theygo.com/FreeSoftware/ Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "gleone" To: "Bob Farmer" Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 7:09 AM Subject: Re: KR> Fw: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! > Could you send me the links on this. I'd like to see them for a project I'm working on. None of the links came through the net. Thanks, Gene > > Bob Farmer wrote: > > > Digital Authoring Tools - Free Software Alert!I don't know if this would be a help in publishing an on line newsletter but it might be worth a look. > > > > Bob Farmer > > rfarmer@naxs.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Free > > To: rfarmer@naxs.net > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:27 AM > > Subject: e-Book Publishing Software - FREE Download! > > > > FREE SOFTWARE! LIMITED TIME OFFER!* > > Digital Authoring Tools offers FREE software that can help you CREATE PROFESSIONAL, 3D page-turning and slide-show style digital brochures, documents, books, catalogs, invitations, photo albums, resumes, newsletters, menus, email promotions, magazines, presentations and more! > > > > For more info, samples or a free download, click the appropriate link below! Server demand is extremely high for this limited time free software offer. You may need to try these links frequently. > > > > FREE DOWNLOAD MORE INFO SAMPLES UNSUBSCRIBE > > DOWNLOAD 1 > > DOWNLOAD 2 > > > > MIRROR site 1 > > MIRROR site 2 > > SAMPLES site 1 > > SAMPLES site 2 UnSubscribe 1 > > UnSubscribe 2 > > > > Click here to UnSubscribe > > Copyright © 2002 - Affiliate ID #1269 > > *FREE Version is FULLY FUNCTIONAL with NO EXPIRATION and has a 4 page limit > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:43:24 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR-100 Message-ID: <000901c228d8$8caa1940$5f0ca58c@mlangford> KRnetHeads, The message from Doug, current owner of Kevin Kelly's KR-100, rekindled the fire under a web site that I'd been planning to do for quite a while. Larry Flesner mailed me some of the original RR material on the plane, and yesterday Jeannette gave me permission to publish it to the web. If you're interested in this "next generation" of KR, check it out at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr100/ . I talked to Kevin about 6 or 7 years ago and made some notes on it (which are not included yet), but I'll do more research, maybe talk Doug out of more details and add to it later. But for now, it's food for thought, at least... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************