From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 11 Sep 2002 15:05:53 -0000 Issue 515 Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 8:07 AM krnet Digest 11 Sep 2002 15:05:53 -0000 Issue 515 Topics (messages 12471 through 12500): Re: Dimpled Tape? 12471 by: bstarrs 12474 by: Ross Youngblood 12476 by: AeroPax.aol.com 12477 by: Bob Farmer 12478 by: Ed Janssen 12481 by: bstarrs Varnish or resin? 12472 by: Jim Morehead 12473 by: Ross Youngblood 12479 by: Ron Eason 12482 by: Waldokr2.aol.com DimpleTape/Hirth Engines 12475 by: Robin Wills Re: Update 12480 by: ROBERT COOPER 12484 by: Mark Jones KR varnish or resin 12483 by: Leigh Plymale 12486 by: Jan Laan 12491 by: Edwin Blocher 12496 by: Mark Jones Re: KR varnish or resin, spray application? 12485 by: jim wogaman 12490 by: cartera New Weigh In 12487 by: Mark Jones 12495 by: Daniel Heath Resin or varnish 12488 by: Leigh Plymale Re: spin recovery 12489 by: David McKelvey 12494 by: Daniel Heath 12497 by: larry flesner q on range of a KR-2S 12492 by: Bdazzcamro.aol.com Sealing Wood, Varnish or Resin 12493 by: Daniel Heath range of a KR-2S 12498 by: larry flesner Julie's thoughts 12499 by: larry flesner Re: Sticky topics 12500 by: Jim Sellars Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:56:06 -0700 To: "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" From: "bstarrs" Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-ID: <003e01c25886$5fec9f80$9200a8c0@bstarrs> This sounds great. Can some one explane why this works if indeed it does? Bill Starrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR-Net" Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:28 PM Subject: KR> Dimpled Tape? In September issue of "Experimenter", there is an article titled "A Hombuilder's Delight". This article is about Jerry Lucke's Celebrity. In the article he mentions a friend of his installed Golf Ball Dimpled Tape to the leading edge of his KR2 propeller and realized an increase of 75-100 rpm. Jerry stated he did the same to his Celebrity and also achieved the same results. Thanks Jerry for giving the KR2 some more exposure. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:15:49 -0700 To: "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" , "bstarrs" From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-Id: <2YQOUO3YTQ4YRPPLXW5TRKHMI1Z3XJD.3d7d8005@cx239334-a> 9/9/2002 9:56:06 PM, "bstarrs" wrote: >This sounds great. Can some one explane why this works if indeed it does? >Bill Starrs Bill, I remember seeing an article on dimpled tape several years ago. I was convinced at that time that it really does work. I think it is the same principal that makes dimpled golf balls so popular. Somthing about boundary layers, surface effects... don't recall. I thought I saw that some NASA folks, or CAFE folks were checking into it when I last read about it. I don't know if it was in Sport Aviation or Experimenter, but I do recall seeing the article several years ago... anyone else recall this? (The point is that the tape has been around for a while now). -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 06:21:22 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AeroPax@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-ID: <83.20726b6f.2aaf21a2@aol.com> --part1_83.20726b6f.2aaf21a2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also saw that article, I believe I have it some where in this box of old magazines, but don't count on me finding it any time soon :) The dimples have approximately the same effect as vortex generators. They delay boundary layer seperation. Used in the PROPER position, they can make you go faster, farther or stall slower. Pax Rolfe Tulsa, OK In a message dated 9/10/2002 12:21:02 AM Central Daylight Time, rossy65@attbi.com writes: > I don't know if it was in > Sport Aviation or Experimenter, but I do recall seeing the article > several years ago... anyone else recall this? --part1_83.20726b6f.2aaf21a2_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 06:39:01 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-ID: <001401c258b6$47ab5c60$1e5f62d8@oemcomputer> The article can be found at this site http://www.dimpletape.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:21 AM Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? > I also saw that article, I believe I have it some where in this box of old > magazines, but don't count on me finding it any time soon :) The dimples have > approximately the same effect as vortex generators. They delay boundary layer > seperation. Used in the PROPER position, they can make you go faster, farther > or stall slower. > > Pax Rolfe > Tulsa, OK > > In a message dated 9/10/2002 12:21:02 AM Central Daylight Time, > rossy65@attbi.com writes: > > > > I don't know if it was in > > Sport Aviation or Experimenter, but I do recall seeing the article > > several years ago... anyone else recall this? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:04:02 -0500 To: "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-ID: <003701c258c2$277b7fe0$0200a8c0@dad> For those who don't get the "Experimenter", I might point out further (according to the article) that what Jerry eventually did was to use the dimple tape as a pattern and Dremel tooled 4 rows of holes (less than a 1/16th in thick) down the blades of his wood prop, then refinished the entire prop with six coats of polyurethane. He used a 1/8th in. round-tip rasp to drill the holes. His result was still about 100 rpm increase in static, cruise, and full throttle. An accompaning picture shows the results. If someone wanted to see the picture, I can try scanning and sending to those interested. Ed Janssen ejanssen@chipsnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR-Net" Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:28 PM Subject: KR> Dimpled Tape? In September issue of "Experimenter", there is an article titled "A Hombuilder's Delight". This article is about Jerry Lucke's Celebrity. In the article he mentions a friend of his installed Golf Ball Dimpled Tape to the leading edge of his KR2 propeller and realized an increase of 75-100 rpm. Jerry stated he did the same to his Celebrity and also achieved the same results. Thanks Jerry for giving the KR2 some more exposure. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:39:25 -0700 To: "Ed Janssen" , "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" From: "bstarrs" Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? Message-ID: <002401c258e0$3e8f6a20$9200a8c0@bstarrs> Why isn't this used on mfg. aircraft? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Janssen" To: "Mark Jones" ; "KR-Net" Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:04 AM Subject: Re: KR> Dimpled Tape? > For those who don't get the "Experimenter", I might point out further > (according to the article) that what Jerry eventually did was to use the > dimple tape as a pattern and Dremel tooled 4 rows of holes (less than a > 1/16th in thick) down the blades of his wood prop, then refinished the > entire prop with six coats of polyurethane. He used a 1/8th in. round-tip > rasp to drill the holes. His result was still about 100 rpm increase in > static, cruise, and full throttle. An accompaning picture shows the > results. If someone wanted to see the picture, I can try scanning and > sending to those interested. > > Ed Janssen > ejanssen@chipsnet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR-Net" > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:28 PM > Subject: KR> Dimpled Tape? > > > In September issue of "Experimenter", there is an article titled "A > Hombuilder's Delight". This article is about Jerry Lucke's Celebrity. In the > article he mentions a friend of his installed Golf Ball Dimpled Tape to the > leading edge of his KR2 propeller and realized an increase of 75-100 rpm. > Jerry stated he did the same to his Celebrity and also achieved the same > results. Thanks Jerry for giving the KR2 some more exposure. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:12:05 -0700 To: KR- Net From: Jim Morehead Subject: Varnish or resin? Message-ID: Netters, What are you using to seal the open sides of the outer spars? I=B9m thinking of using spar varnish or painting it with resin. Any thoughts on this? Stub wings completed. Auxiliary tank in right stub wing. Bolting on outer spars. Beginning to look like a real airplane!!! Looking forward to Red Oak. Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA kr2jm@d-web.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:12:58 -0700 To: KR- Net , Jim Morehead From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Varnish or resin? Message-Id: Jim, I think you could actually do either. I would recommend spar varnish however... for two reasons. 1) The word "Spar" indicates that it might work. Actually it is probably some nautical application of the word spar, but maybe spar varnish was actually invented to varnish spars! I'd like to think so. 2) Resin... I have the feeling that resin is more likely to crack, and my not penetrate as well as spar varnish. I may be completely wrong on this, it is entirely an uneducated opinion. I used multiple coats of spar varnish, either per plans or one of Tony Bengelis' books. It is a good idea. My spars sucked up the varnish on the ends. I used "several" coats, but don't know how many exactly, the number seven comes to mind, but it could be the alzheimers kicking in. -- Ross 9/9/2002 9:12:05 PM, Jim Morehead wrote: >Netters, > What are you using to seal the open sides of the outer spars? I¹m >thinking of using spar varnish or painting it with resin. Any thoughts on >this? > Stub wings completed. Auxiliary tank in right stub wing. Bolting on >outer spars. Beginning to look like a real airplane!!! Looking forward to >Red Oak. > >Jim Morehead >Cameron Park, CA >kr2jm@d-web.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > Ross Youngblood http://N541RY.com mailto:rossy65@attbi.com (Home) mailto:ross_youngblood@credence.com (Work) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:31:38 -0700 To: KR- Net , Jim Morehead From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Varnish or resin? Message-Id: <200209100531.AA395575616@jrl-engineering.com> I used urathane varnish [ from a spray can]. Works well. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jim Morehead Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:12:05 -0700 >Netters, > What are you using to seal the open sides of the outer spars? I=B9m >thinking of using spar varnish or painting it with resin. Any thoughts on= >this? > Stub wings completed. Auxiliary tank in right stub wing. Bolting on >outer spars. Beginning to look like a real airplane!!! Looking forward t= o >Red Oak. > >Jim Morehead >Cameron Park, CA >kr2jm@d-web.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > -- Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Jim Eason V.P, 770-446-1291, Atlanta, Georgia Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:15:52 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org, kr2jm@d-web.com From: Waldokr2@aol.com Subject: varnish or resin? Message-ID: <112.17205230.2aafacf8@aol.com> Jim, Years ago I was building a Variviggen (all wood) designed by Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told him all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go, he asked me if they still wore button shoes. He said to tell them to use the new technology and to ask them what happens when the solvents in varnish evaporate. I use the WEST SYSTEM epoxy, which stands for wood epoxy saturation treatment. You only use one coat except in places where the wood soaks up the epoxy and on end grains. Some people develop an allergy from using it, but I've used it for over 25 years with no problems. Bob McDonough Gainesville, FL waldokr2@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:31:46 +1000 To: From: "Robin Wills" Subject: DimpleTape/Hirth Engines Message-ID: <00d001c258a4$807dbcc0$c1051ad3@robinwills> ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01C258F8.51680360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For all those interested in DimpleTape...=20 In the April/May edition of Airsport there was an article on the use of = Dimpletape. They apparently work by energising the boundary layer of air = on the wing/prop with the result it "sticks" to the surface for longer, = to my reasoning that results in lower stall speeds, better control = response etc.. If installed on the prop spanwise the same result = happens, giving you better performance and higher speeds from your = current eng/prop combination. The company that produces the tape is called Leading Edge Air Foils Inc. = and are located at Meadowlake Airport, 8242 Cessna Drive, Dept. AS, = Peyton CO, 80831. (719) 683-5323. There was also an article in the January 1998 edition of Sport Aviation = apparently. On another topic, Does anyone have any reports on the use of the Hirth = F-30 or F-30ES in a KR-2? Am contemplating this engine due its mainly = light weight and good power-weight ratio. Fly Safe. Robin Wills Queensland Australia ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01C258F8.51680360-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:52:04 -0400 To: "Mark JONES" , "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Update Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C255C5.BA6821A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark Your cockpit looks great. Will you have a sight gauge fuel quantity indic= ator? Will avionics be center or on right? We will miss you in Red Oak, b= ut we will have fun without you. Jack Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:52 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> Update Hello All, I have basically finished my cockpit. Please take a look and let me know = what you think. View the photo under my "Photo of the Week" on my web sit= e: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html I sure wish I could go to Red Oak....please send photos!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA =20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C255C5.BA6821A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:53:25 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Update Message-ID: <001801c25925$42cba6e0$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C258FB.58B6B640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jack, you got me...the cockpit is not completely complete. I do have = to install a dual fuel gauge in the center section of the instrument = panel. I used to have a sight gauge there when I was going to use a = header tank. I removed the sight gauge when I decided to go only with = wing tanks. I will also utilize a King KX-99 handheld transceiver which = will mount in a holder on the right side of the instrument panel above = the fuses. I already have a linear amplifier installed which will boost = the output to 10 watts. The antenna is also installed. I have a push to = talk on the stick grip and headphone adapters for the radio. Still wishing I were going to Red Oak. Let's see....if I get off work = Friday at 5pm...go home and help with the baby and two boys till they = are asleep....drive for 8 hours to Red Oak and get there about daybreak = on Saturday morning.....leave Red Oak after the banquet and get home by = daybreak Sunday morning, maybe the wife would not divorce me.....will = just have to see how this idea goes over with her. I think Langford = basically did the same thing to Oshkosh since he was there only for a = day. So why can't I do it to Red Oak? One Word....WIFE..... Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ROBERT COOPER=20 To: Mark JONES ; krnet=20 Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: Re: KR> Update Mark Your cockpit looks great. Will you have a sight gauge fuel quantity = indicator? Will avionics be center or on right? We will miss you in Red = Oak, but we will have fun without you. Jack Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:52 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> Update Hello All, I have basically finished my cockpit. Please take a look and let me = know what you think. View the photo under my "Photo of the Week" on my = web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html I sure wish I could go to Red Oak....please send photos!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C258FB.58B6B640-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:42:04 -0400 To: From: "Leigh Plymale" Subject: KR varnish or resin Message-ID: <003701c25912$e7954cc0$1b853518@chvlva.adelphia.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C258F1.601EF780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob McDonough wrote: "Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told = him all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go" My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for = years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect = against fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years = old and they still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood = can breathe also allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My = point is this, sealing the wood offers very little strength to the = project and sealing compounds, especially epoxy is heavy and adds = weight. One way I have cut down on the added weight before applying is = to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If all that we are trying to = accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a lighter method why not = use it? Just because it is an older method and a newer product comes = along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say "If it ain't = broke or worn out don't fix it!" Leigh Plymale flyboy232@adelphia.net ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C258F1.601EF780-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:02:46 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Jan Laan Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin Message-id: <0H2900F3P1H3FT@l-daemon> All, In places with poor ventillation like closed in wing panels one tends to get moulds or fungi growing.Just lock up your camper in October and open it up in April while leaving it outside under cover.It will be unliveable. These organisms need moisture and some organic matter to eat. Once these organisms get established there's virtually no way to get rid of them again. The example of the models is not very relevant; I presume that those are not left outside ,either summer or winter ,but are stored in a heated hobby room or basement; hence not enough moisture for moulds to get established. Though sealing will not entirely prevent seasonal fluctuation in moisture content , it will put a barrier between the mould spores and the wood. And once you have moulds growing in your spars, I wouldn't fly with you anymore because it means that the spars are being consumed albeit slowly. Jan jalan@axion.net Cumberland,BC > >My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect against fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years old and they still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood can breathe also allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My point is this, sealing the wood offers very little strength to the project and sealing compounds, especially epoxy is heavy and adds weight. One way I have cut down on the added weight before applying is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If all that we are trying to accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a lighter method why not use it? Just because it is an older method and a newer product comes along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say "If it ain't broke or worn out don't fix it!" > >Leigh Plymale >flyboy232@adelphia.net > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 22:49:35 -0500 To: "Leigh Plymale" , From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin Message-ID: <001101c25946$40722380$939131cc@cyou.com> My 2 cents and a tip from Mark. L. I seem to have some T88 Epoxy let over every time I mix a batch. With a bunch of stirring it dilutes with alcohol and makes a perfect sealer. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Plymale" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: KR> KR varnish or resin Bob McDonough wrote: "Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told him all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go" My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect against fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years old and they still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood can breathe also allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My point is this, sealing the wood offers very little strength to the project and sealing compounds, especially epoxy is heavy and adds weight. One way I have cut down on the added weight before applying is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If all that we are trying to accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a lighter method why not use it? Just because it is an older method and a newer product comes along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say "If it ain't broke or worn out don't fix it!" Leigh Plymale flyboy232@adelphia.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:23:06 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin Message-ID: <000b01c25985$9a13b360$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> So what did Marl L suggest...Scotch or Bourbon? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "Leigh Plymale" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin > My 2 cents and a tip from Mark. L. I seem to have some T88 Epoxy let over > every time I mix a batch. With a bunch of stirring it dilutes with alcohol > and makes a perfect sealer. > ED > Ed Blocher > Santa Rosa Beach, Florida > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leigh Plymale" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:42 PM > Subject: KR> KR varnish or resin > > > Bob McDonough wrote: > "Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told him > all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go" > > My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for > years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect against > fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years old and they > still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood can breathe also > allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My point is this, sealing > the wood offers very little strength to the project and sealing compounds, > especially epoxy is heavy and adds weight. One way I have cut down on the > added weight before applying is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If > all that we are trying to accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a > lighter method why not use it? Just because it is an older method and a > newer product comes along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say > "If it ain't broke or worn out don't fix it!" > > Leigh Plymale > flyboy232@adelphia.net > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:48:57 -0400 To: "Leigh Plymale" From: "jim wogaman" Cc: "hennie van `rooyan" Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin, spray application? Message-ID: <000a01c25924$a2d29680$a7031dd8@jeannielobell> leigh Plymale & entters: Can't varnish be sprayed? Can epoxy be sprayed? Need to brush epoxy, so perhaps spraying is easier to obtain coverage in close spaces. I do not know just asking. jim wogaman jwog1@copper.net cleo :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Leigh Plymale To: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:42 PM Subject: KR> KR varnish or resin Bob McDonough wrote: "Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told him all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go" My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect against fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years old and they still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood can breathe also allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My point is this, sealing the wood offers very little strength to the project and sealing compounds, especially epoxy is heavy and adds weight. One way I have cut down on the added weight before applying is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If all that we are trying to accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a lighter method why not use it? Just because it is an older method and a newer product comes along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say "If it ain't broke or worn out don't fix it!" Leigh Plymale flyboy232@adelphia.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:45:15 -0600 To: jim wogaman From: cartera CC: Leigh Plymale , hennie van `rooyan Subject: Re: KR> KR varnish or resin, spray application? Message-ID: <3D7EAE3B.A563316F@cuug.ab.ca> Hi Leigh and Gang, Well, you heard it from the KING and that must have some validity? This is not a model which I also have hanging on my wall UC/RC, remember there may be times that the KR sits outside say at a flyin and it rains. Spent 10 days in Victoria, BC for ten days and 7 of those days it rained. Always to keep things well sealed because even when you flying rain can enter the fuse. My KR was sealed with epoxy and alcohol and is now just about 20 years old and still a good seal, breathing wood is not even a factor. It's not even a big job so even consider not sealing? Varnish or urethane is just introducing another system into the KR and if you need ever to do a repair, you have to make sure you clean all the varnish, etc. off and with epoxy sealer you do not just rough it up, think about it. Also, spraying does not give a good a seal as brushing it on, you get into the pores a lot better with a brush than just doing a surface seal. Take Care and Happy Flying!!!! jim wagon wrote: > > leigh Plymale & entters: Can't varnish be sprayed? Can epoxy be sprayed? > Need to brush epoxy, so perhaps spraying is easier to obtain coverage in > close spaces. I do not know just asking. jim wogaman jwog1@copper.net > cleo :-) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leigh Plymale > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:42 PM > Subject: KR> KR varnish or resin > > Bob McDonough wrote: > "Burt Rutan, who recommended using epoxy to seal the wood. When I told him > all the builders in my chapter said varnish was the only way to go" > > My question is this why must the wood be sealed? I have built Models for > years and the only time wood was sealed is when we wanted to protect against > fuel or oil contamination. I have models that are over 15 years old and they > still fly as good as they ever did. The fact that the wood can breathe also > allows moisture to dry out and not remain trapped. My point is this, sealing > the wood offers very little strength to the project and sealing compounds, > especially epoxy is heavy and adds weight. One way I have cut down on the > added weight before applying is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol. If > all that we are trying to accomplish is to seal the wood, and varnish is a > lighter method why not use it? Just because it is an older method and a > newer product comes along if there is not a real advantage why use it? I say > "If it ain't broke or worn out don't fix it!" > > Leigh Plymale > flyboy232@adelphia.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:18:00 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: New Weigh In Message-ID: <00a701c25931$12392640$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C25907.29324A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have had several people e-mail me in the last few days about my = plane's weight. Here is the new results as she sits a few minutes ago. Last weigh in was 3-3-02 at 453 pounds. Tonight's weight: Left Main Gear: 140 lbs Nose Gear: 215 lbs Right Main Gear: 139 lbs Total 494 lbs which is only a gain of 41 lbs since March. Not too = shabby!!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C25907.29324A40-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:43:30 -0700 To: "KR-Net" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> New Weigh In Message-ID: Mark, Is that with the wings attached? See you in Red Oak. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 22:02:34 -0400 To: From: "Leigh Plymale" Subject: Resin or varnish Message-ID: <002001c25937$4bd7c360$1b853518@chvlva.adelphia.net> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C25915.C459CD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have no intent on leaving a plane out side. Also a litte trick used to = keep shrink films from preasurizing or saging is to vent the wing = spaces. Also the wings are mostly foam and composite except for the = spar. So for good measure I coat the few pieces in the wing. As for the = fuse its wide open. Again I reiterate what for!? Leigh Plymale flyboy232@adelphia.net ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C25915.C459CD00-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:48:47 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "David McKelvey" Subject: RE: KR> spin recovery Message-ID: Perhaps a quarter tank rule would be a good idea for acft with header tanks only ie. no take-offs with less than a quarter tank. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Kraut [mailto:engalt@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:53 PM To: krnet Subject: KR> spin recovery I was talking to another KR owner a few weeks ago. He told me that he accidently got into a spin one time and he lost about 4,000 feet trying to get out of it and nothing was working. He finally leaned as far forward as he could and that brought him out. He was low on fuel and therefore near the aft CG limit so leaning forward apparently moved his CG far enough forward to save his life. I will keep this one in the back of my head. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:41:03 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> spin recovery Message-ID: RE: no take-offs with less than a quarter tank. How about no take-offs with less than a full tank? See you in Red Oak. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:01:41 -0500 To: "krnet" From: larry flesner Subject: spin recovery Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020911070141.008bd100@mail.midwest.net> At 08:48 PM 9/10/02 -0500, David McKelvey wrote: >Perhaps a quarter tank rule would be a good idea for acft with header tanks >only ie. no take-offs with less than a quarter tank. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For those of you with header tanks and wing tanks, don't forget to do a W.& B. with header tank at near empty and wing tanks full. I know of one KR going to a Gathering that had his transfer pump quit and by the time he landed he said the A.C. was getting a bit tail heavy. Always figure "worst case" and then do you're best to avoid it. I did a quick weigh-in on my 0-200 powered "Pig" this weekend at the airport. 735 pounds empty and still need paint. The good news is that with me (200 lbs) and full fuel (wing tanks only, no header) , my C.G. falls at the exact midpoint of the C.G. range and my C.G. will move forward slightly with fuel burnoff. A 200 pound passanger and it stays within the C.G. range and I have a 24 inch stretch. Yeeee Haaaaaaa !!! Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:58:14 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Bdazzcamro@aol.com Subject: q on range of a KR-2S Message-ID: <198.ce40afa.2ab05196@aol.com> --part1_198.ce40afa.2ab05196_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whats the range on a typical KR-2S? David Swanson --part1_198.ce40afa.2ab05196_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:39:44 -0700 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists.Org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Sealing Wood, Varnish or Resin Message-ID: RE: Varnish or urethane is just introducing another system into the KR and if you need ever to do a repair, you have to make sure you clean all the varnish, etc. off and with epoxy sealer you do not just rough it up, think about it. Even during the building process, you will have to get to areas that you have already sealed. Seal the fuselage, now you are putting on the turtle deck and you have to get all that stuff off the area where you will make the attachment. I know from experience, bad experience, that you don't want to have to do that. If you don't get it all off, and I mean down into the pores of the wood, your resin will turn into a gummy mess and you will have to do it all over again. Someone on the net suggested that I would not only have to sand it, but then wash it with lacquer thinner. They were right, then sand again and wash again. In the areas, that we have sealed with epoxy, no problem. See you in Red Oak. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:19:05 -0500 To: Bdazzcamro@aol.com,krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: range of a KR-2S Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020911071905.0098c920@mail.midwest.net> At 03:58 AM 9/11/02 EDT, Bdazzcamro@aol.com wrote: > Whats the range on a typical KR-2S? >David Swanson +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ David, I'm not trying to be a wise a** but there is no "typical" KR-2S. The range can be whatever size tanks you want to install and the fuel burn for the engine used. Mine has two 12.5 gal wing tanks and running an 0-200 I'm figuring on 3 hours with reserve. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:32:05 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: Julie's thoughts Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020911073205.0098f270@mail.midwest.net> Fellow netters, Today being an unfortunate anniversery in our nations history , I'd hope you don't mind my sharing the following e-mail with you. At some point a parent knows if their kids are going to make it or not and this e-mail pretty much confirms my hunches. Julie is my 22 year old daughter, college student, living at home. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois, USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Hello, family and friends--- > >September 10th has marked the 1-year anniversary of my mid-life >crisis, while tomorrow our country will be remembering another >curveball life threw at us. Soooooo, I thought I'd sit down & >document my personal story on this momentous occasion, and I wanted >to share it with each of you. Enjoy! (sorry it's kinda long) >love, > Julie >************************************************************ > > On September 2, 2001, just a week before the terrorist attacks, >I met someone special during a visit to New York City. > > It was a gorgeous Sunday afternoon when my friend Heather and I >split from our group to go see the Statue of Liberty. As we docked >at Staten Island, Heather and I ran to the back of the ferry & >stood in awe of the view. Coming from small towns in the Midwest, >the NY skyline was like nothing we=92d seen before. The Statue >looked small and insignificant against such an impressive >background. I immediately began snapping panoramics of the >skyline. Those two towers were so big! Double the size of all the >other skyscrapers!=20 > > Heather and I were offered a much closer look at the towers >after our ferry ride. We were supposed to take the Path Train from >the bottom of the World Trade Center to get back to our friend=92s >apartment in Jersey, though the city map wasn=92t providing us >=93country-girls=94 much help. After 20 minutes of walking aimlessly >around lower Manhattan, we finally asked for help.=20 > > =93Excuse me, sir, can you tell us where the World Trade Center >is?=94 I asked a strange man passing by. =20 > =93Ummmmm... It=92s right in front of you...=94 The short, nice >foreign man pointed to the towers we=92d been circling for almost a >half-hour.=20 > > As we embarrassingly thanked him and walked towards the main >entrance, I noticed stores along the main floor that held >Sunday-evening shoppers. Through the glass walls I saw people >quietly reading in the bookstore. However, I couldn=92t take my eyes >off of a woman out front. =20 > > Covered in rags from head to toe, it was obvious this woman had >been tossed aside by society. Her dirty clothes draped on her body >as her stringy, long, jet-black hair kept falling in her eyes.=20 >This homeless woman was hard to miss, and not just because she was >pacing back and forth in front of the entrance we were going into.=20 >As strange as it sounds, what intrigued me about this woman were >her socks. =20 >=20 > Lacking any other possessions, material or otherwise, this woman >spent all the energy she had on preserving her brightly-colored, >rainbow-striped socks. She kept them spotless by walking on the >very tips of her heels. Those rainbow socks were immediately >burned into my memory! As we walked past the woman, I laughed to >myself and thought, =93Why is she trying so hard to keep her socks >clean, when the rest of her is so dirty?=94 =20 > > Once we got inside, I looked to my left and saw two uniform >cops guarding the entrance. Seeing these cops sparked a weird >feeling in me. I immediately thought of the WTC bombing of 1993.=20 >I was eerily reminded that the building my friend Heather & I were >standing in represented an idea that certain people want to >destroy. As these thoughts ran through my head, I turned to my >friend Heather and commented, =93Oh yeah=85 I forget that people would >want to destroy this building we=92re in.=94 > > One week after speaking those words, they did. > > I was glued to the TV that morning like everyone else in America, >but I wasn=92t watching the same way. You see, I was so inspired by >my New York trip that I came home to Champaign and on September 10, >changed my whole life. By the end of the day on Monday, I had >dropped all my classes at the University of Illinois. I had >cancelled my full-tuition scholarship. I had quit my job (and my >boyfriend) and decided to sub-let my apartment. All with the >intention of packing up & moving out to New York City! >=20 > The very next day, the city I had just rearranged my whole life >for was being bombed. My body went numb when my sister told me the >news. Boy, was life throwing me a curveball! Throughout all the >news coverage I saw that morning, I really only thought about one >person, but it wasn't me. =93What=92s happening to the lady with the >rainbow socks?" I wondered. "Please- just don=92t let her socks get >dirty!=94 It felt like I had lost a friend.=20 > > Video clips of September 11 show thousands of professional men and >women, all in their suits and ties, running for their lives. Take >a much closer look at those same tapes and through the solid wall >of ash and debris, you=92ll see homeless people, walking at a very >slow pace. They walked that morning because they had no family to >run to. While others frantically ran home, some people stood in >disbelief as their homes fell to the ground. > > That morning, as souls transcended upward, we remember those >office memos that fell to the Earth like glitter against the gray >smoke background. Sadly, not one of those memos read =93Be thankful >you have this job, and be thankful for your family and friends that >will report you missing this Tuesday!=94 > > Am I today where I thought I=92d be September 10, 2001? No. Life >has a funny way of leading us places and teaching us things. I=92ll >never know what happened to that homeless lady with the rainbow >socks. My only regret is not stopping to feed her a good meal for >what could have been the last week of her life. Even though I >never met her, she taught me a valuable lesson: > > If I were ever lost in a tragic event like September 11, I=92m >fortunate to have family and friends (like you guys!) that would >look for me and report me missing. =20 > Knowing that I=92d at least be a number is a comforting thought.=20 > >Julie Flesner >Sept. 10, 2002 >********************************************************** =20 > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:06:37 -0300 To: "cartera" , "John and Janet Martindale" From: "Jim Sellars" Cc: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR> Sticky topics Message-ID: <005601c259a4$d5da5740$0100a8c0@LAPTOP> Adrian: Thatès exactly how I feel also. Lets not limit this discussion to limits of the ridiculous. Engine discussions are very important. Remmeber what Mom always said If you dont have something good to say. . .anyway fellows keep up the good work. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "cartera" To: "John and Janet Martindale" Cc: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: Re: KR> Sticky topics > Hello Gang & John, > Whoaaa! I think this is overstepping the boundaries of good taste. > I don't like being told that I should live up to someone else's > expectations. I think your point is offensive and this net is > a chit chat net and a NO FLAME NET. We are all guests here and > so are you! And if it costs you extra money to download, maybe > you should make other arrangement with your ISP! I am also a > long term member, since it's inception, maybe if your that tired > you should take a rest and maybe things will look better when you > arise. > Regards, > > John and Janet Martindale wrote: > > > > Folks > > > > As a longish term member of the KRnet, I am getting a bit tired of all the chitchat about various engines on this site and it costs me money to download it all. If you want to talk about VWs please go to that site, Corvairs to that site, Subarus to that site etc. I would prefer to hear about the construction and performance of the KR aircraft on this site using the Virg terminology, ie., objective, succinct and to the point. > > > > Regards > > > > John and Janet Martindale > > 29 Jane Circuit > > TOORMINA NSW 2452 > > AUSTRALIA > > > > ph: 61 2 66584767 > > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Calgary, Alberta > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************