From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 29 Sep 2002 03:39:20 -0000 Issue 524 Date: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:40 PM krnet Digest 29 Sep 2002 03:39:20 -0000 Issue 524 Topics (messages 12659 through 12678): Re: Bulkhead drawings 12659 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Western Hemlock 12660 by: w.higdon.attbi.com spruce substitute 12661 by: jim . synergy design 12672 by: Robert X. Cringely 12676 by: MARVIN MCCOY Re: Material for controls 12662 by: Mark Langford SW Regional Fly-In 12663 by: Kerry Miller Dual Ignition settings 12664 by: Christine Coolidge 2002 gathering 12665 by: garbez 12668 by: Mark Langford dual ignition 12666 by: Giuseppe Locicero Red Oak KR Gathering 2002 - Personal Impressions 12667 by: Daniel Heath Crankshaft 12669 by: Patrick Driscoll 12677 by: Mark Langford 12678 by: Patrick Driscoll Gathering 2003 12670 by: Patrick Driscoll 12675 by: Tim Brown 2002 KR Gathering Photos 12671 by: gpasc Alt problem. 12673 by: Christine Coolidge Gathering 12674 by: Al Friesen Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:02:46 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org, KRJerry@jerrymahurin.com From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Bulkhead drawings Message-Id: My method for building up the fwd deck, and aft deck was to use cardboard cutouts... then sit in the plane and get an idea of what the over the nose view would be like. I made a cardboard extension for the cowling so that I could "see" over it. I had a posterboard mock-up of the instrument panel with square instrument and rectangular radio cutouts (the rough dimensions for various avionics are in the ACS catalog). This way I was able to trim cardboard and move instruments around to get a panel and a over the cowling view that I thought I could live with. Then I moved to building masonite bulkheads from the cardboard templates. I folded my templates and cut them so they would have symmetry. A poor mans CAD system, but I think they still occasionally build car models out of clay don't they? Probably not any longer. -- Ross 9/25/2002 5:28:43 AM, "Jerry L. Mahurin" wrote: >Bill, > >> Anyone have cad drawings of firwall, instrument panel, turtledeck >> (behind canopy) to make my foredeck and turtledecks with? Have >> standard with KR2S and hope to use Dragonly canopy or Ed's new canopy. >> I may use them for reference only since I know you can adjust heigth >> according to pilot. When I got my plane (20% complete) it did not >> come with drawings. > >As I can best remember, the firewall is all that is on the plans. There >are no details for anything above the longerons except the vertical stab >and rudder........ > >Keep on Keeping on, > >See our KR2 at http://kr-builder.org > >Jerry Mahurin >Lugoff, SC >email: KRJerry@jerrymahurin.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > Ross Youngblood http://N541RY.com mailto:rossy65@attbi.com (Home) mailto:ross_youngblood@credence.com (Work) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 03:33:19 +0000 To: rossy65@attbi.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: w.higdon@attbi.com Subject: Re: KR> Western Hemlock Message-Id: <20020927033319.UIFH1696.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@rwcrwbc69> There is a gentleman here in Oregon who built a KR-2 like design out of Hemlock instead of Spruce, I took a ride in it. The cockpit was slightly wider and it had fixed gear and gull wing doors. All of this before the fixed gear option. It also had all wood wings (no glass) with wood ribs and plywood covering. The wings looked like glass however. As I recall Hemlock is slightly heavier. I will see if I can look this guy up and find out more info for you. It may take some time however... -- Ross Ross, I believe that it was called the "Celerity", it was based on a Canadian redo of the Veritable MiniCab Hawk. By the way what's this Oregon thing? I thought you moved to the land of SUN ;-)) Bill Higdon Oh yes the best hemlock stock is the stuff intended for Ladders. They can't afford compression fractures in a ladder rail. > There is a gentleman here in Oregon who built a > KR-2 like design out of Hemlock instead of Spruce, > I took a ride in it. The cockpit was slightly wider > and it had fixed gear and gull wing doors. All of this > before the fixed gear option. It also had all wood wings > (no glass) with wood ribs and plywood covering. The wings > looked like glass however. > > As I recall Hemlock is slightly heavier. I will see if > I can look this guy up and find out more info for you. > It may take some time however... > -- Ross > > > 9/25/2002 3:41:16 AM, "Craig Lovell" wrote: > > > I dont want to re-hash a dead subject, I have been trying to find some > >defnite info about using Western Hemlock instead of Spruce (way too > >expensive here in New Zealand) I already have Some 6"x2" Western Hemlock in > >my shed most of which has about 20-25 Growth rings p/inch very straight > >grains with no Knots or visible defects, if it is suitable and will last I > >will use it if not I'll just keep it there. > > Can somebody please direct me to a site where I can access the appropriate > >information or just send me some comment's observations or opinions. > >Thanks in advance. > > Craig Lovell Tauranga New Zealand. > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > Ross Youngblood > http://N541RY.com > mailto:rossy65@attbi.com (Home) > mailto:ross_youngblood@credence.com (Work) > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 01:59:33 -0700 To: From: "jim @ synergy design" Subject: spruce substitute Message-ID: <000c01c26604$3450ad40$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C265C9.8678F0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Celerity was made with port orford cedar, very hard to come by. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C265C9.8678F0E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 14:26:13 -0700 To: From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> spruce substitute Message-Id: --============_-1178874045==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Then there is Larry Lam and his Wanderer, which is a KR on steroids. It started with a VW and now the same airframe has an O-360, which shows Larry was just a little off in his early estimates. It is also the only wooden airframe I know of that uses mahogany as an alternative to spruce or douglas fir. Larry claims that good mahogany is both easier to get and cheaper! Bob At 1:59 AM -0700 9/27/02, jim @ synergy design wrote: >The Celerity was made with port orford cedar, very hard to come by. -- --============_-1178874045==_ma============-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:29:42 -0700 To: "Robert X. Cringely" From: MARVIN MCCOY CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> spruce substitute Message-ID: <3D965786.4A208875@worldnet.att.net> Yes, and a whole lot heavier! Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA North end of Boeing Field --------------- Robert X. Cringely wrote: > > > the only wooden airframe I know of that uses mahogany as an > alternative to spruce or douglas fir. Larry claims that good > mahogany is both easier to get and cheaper! > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:08:03 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Material for controls Message-ID: <002701c2661e$882344e0$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Ricky Farley wrote: > Forgive my ignorance, but can aluminum (6061 T6 or 2024) be used to > create the control sticks and pushrods instead of 4130? If so, can I > use the same dimensions (i.e. 3/4" 0.035) or do I need thicker walled or > larger diameter? Thank you, Briefly, 4130N is about twice as strong as 6061-T6, and less flexible, so no, they aren't exactly "interchangeable". You can use aluminum in place of 4130, but you need to go thicker, or bigger, or otherwise compensate somehow for the loss of strength. Acceptable fatigue limit is another factor to consider, since aluminum is much more susceptible to fatigue than 4130. People make controls and other parts out of either one, just keep the properties in mind. There are other factors too, like 6061-T6 has better corrosion resistance than bare 4130N, etc. Another consideration is the rod ends (the thing you insert into the pushrod and either weld or rivet). The ones that Wicks sells seem to be sized for 4130 rather than aluminum, but I guess that all depends on what length tube (and therefore wall thickness) you are intending to run. Anyway, I'd check on available sizes (and therefore strength and weight) before I committed to one or the other. I made my control pushrod and torque tubes out of 4130. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:06:31 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: SW Regional Fly-In Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020927100631.007b9c20@pop3.ticnet.com> Are any of you guys going to Abilene? I'll have my white KR-net cap, look for us! Kerry Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:19:08 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Christine Coolidge Subject: Dual Ignition settings Message-ID: <20020927.231910.-656217.0.USAUS@juno.com> All, I have a dual ignition setup on a Type I 2180cc engine. One ignition for the top plugs is a slick mag and the bottom set of plugs is on a Greatplains 12V elec. ignition. Do any of you have any suggestions on how these should be set up. Both advanced the same? One advanced the other advanced slightly less? Run them alone and set each where the engine runs the smoothest in all ranges? Any advice would be great! R/ Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:58:59 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "garbez" Subject: 2002 gathering Message-ID: <000901c266ff$97563c60$cc4dfea9@netins.net> KR gatherers, I want to thank everyone that made the gathering a success, Steve and Linda Bennett, Jim and Deb Faughn, Mark Langford, and of course Teri my wife, plus all the others that helped. It makes a big difference when you get several people pulling together. I had a great time in spite of getting the flu the following week. It really hit me hard. I wish I could have flown my KR but it just wasn't in the cards yet. The engine is already on the test stand and should be back on the KR and hopefully flying in about a month. We are planning on having the 2003 gathering a week or two earlier (what do you think?) to hopefully have better weather. We really need to get more KR's to the gatherings. We also need some new KR's there so you builders get building for next year. Thanks again to all that helped. Mike Garbez N998MG 2002 KR Gathering Host ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:52:54 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> 2002 gathering Message-ID: <001401c26720$40ec5640$5a00a8c0@mlangford> Mike Garbez wrote: > We are > planning on having the 2003 gathering a week or two earlier (what do you > think?) to hopefully have better weather. I was thinking exactly the same thing. A few weeks earlier might avoid the rain and storms. Thanks again, guys, for another great Gathering! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 10:48:32 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Giuseppe Locicero Subject: dual ignition Message-id: <001801c26717$430e13e0$53305018@vs.shawcable.net> --Boundary_(ID_ozYPT3AFmy70Bz3GvUS9aQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Both ignition timing should be set together at 28 degrees per GPAS, if one moves away from the set point, the engine will run rough. The difference is the wiring configuration from the mag & 12V electronic ignition to the cylinder heads. (all left & right references on aircraft are view from seating position in the cockpit ) Take the !,2 leads from the mag & position the leads on cylinder 1,2 bottom, than take the 12V coil 1,2 leads and place them on top of the same cylinders. Now take 3 & 4 leads of the mag and they are placed on top of cylinder 3&4 opposite to cylinders !& 2. The 12Vcoil leads are placed at the bottom of 3&4 cylinders. basically you cross the leads, due to oil fouling the plugs. if & when that happens you will have 2 plug from each ignition at the top clean & working. the above example is one on many combination I hope it answer you question. you welcome to use it & good luck. --Boundary_(ID_ozYPT3AFmy70Bz3GvUS9aQ)-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 07:28:44 -0700 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists.Org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Red Oak KR Gathering 2002 - Personal Impressions Message-ID: The gathering this year was a big success. The only thing that kept it from being a "HUGE" success was the limited number of KRs that were able to come. In that, I was somewhat disappointed, because my main goal was to take as many pictures of gull wing canopies as I could find. The only one that came was Marti Roberts. However, Marti's attendance at a gathering gives a tremendous boost to the overall success of the event. I have never been to a gathering when the weather cooperated, that Marti was not giving people rides from the beginning to the end. While I have been to gatherings where there were more planes, I have been to only one other where there was as much flying. I get goose bumps just watching and hearing these little machines going over head. They really are amazing little airplanes. To me, the most impressive KR of all is Richard Shirley's KR1. The workmanship can be matched by few, but most of all, it fly's like a racer. The highlight of the gathering for me, was getting to see Jeanette again and having an opportunity to talk with Dan Diehl about resins and stuff. I found out why I don't like . It seems that it is really operator error in that I was using it for a purpose for which it was not designed. It is a laminating resin and by design, leaves a film on the surface that will allow easy binding to the next layer. That is why it cannot be sanded. It is not meant to be sanded. I found the talks about engines given by Steve and Mark, to be very enlightening. All of you who are trying to decide what engine to use, should have heard both of these. They really put the whole subject in perspective. I found an easy solution to one of my needs concerning the gull wing implementation. You really need a way to fasten the fore edge of the top of the door. The last picture in the thumbnails has the solution. It was on Marti's plane. We drove 2300 miles to attend this gathering and it was worth every mile. I have added my pictures to Jerry's and presented them in our usual format at the address below. If you prefer the format that Jerry put out at first, click on the "ALL RED OAK 2002 PICS" it the upper right corner. http://kr-builder.org/ROIowa2002/index.html See ya in Red Oak --- 2003, Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:10:39 -0500 To: "KR Net Mail" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Subject: Crankshaft Message-ID: <000801c2672b$1dc37a80$b4db6843@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C26701.34705340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Need some help, people. I had no idea that a Corvair crank could warp if left laying around. Mine has been laying on the table for about a year now. Is there any = way to tell if the crank is warped without putting the engine together = and turning it? Is a laser beam shot from one end to the other a good test or is the = beam too wide? Any ideas ? Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C26701.34705340-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 21:07:53 -0500 To: "KR Net Mail" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Crankshaft Message-ID: <001801c2675d$05b54360$5a00a8c0@mlangford> Pat Driscoll wrote: >> I had no idea that a Corvair crank could warp if left laying around. Mine has been laying on the table for about a year now. Is there any way to tell if the crank is warped without putting the engine together and turning it? << Pat wonders this because there's been a "debate" (nice word for p-contest) on CorvAircraft recently about how to store crankshafts. The story is that ANY crankshaft not stored on end will warp, not just the Corvair. I personally don't buy it, at least that it'll warp in any way significant enough to make a hill-o-beans worth of difference to anybody. I'm sure there's a huge body of evidence that the "experts" do it that way, and hey, it DOES save floorspace, but the racing guys would probably lay all of their connecting rods east and west to evenly distribute the magnetism due to the earth's polarity too, if they thought it'd give them .00001% more power. I'm not going worry about it, personally, until somebody tells me a credible tale to the contrary. But mine are standing on end, to preserve floor space... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 22:38:30 -0500 To: "Mark Langford" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Cc: "KR Net Mail" Subject: Crankshaft Message-ID: <001e01c26769$ae147b00$27db6843@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2673F.C4B08AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mark. Coming from you I can take confidence in the fact that the crank is = ok. Now I can lay it down again between the rods lined up east and west = and get that extra power :-) ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2673F.C4B08AE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:12:58 -0500 To: "KR Net Mail" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Subject: Gathering 2003 Message-ID: <001101c2672b$70da3b00$b4db6843@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C26701.877DEC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just read the comments about the new date for the 2003 gathering. I'd = like to see the last weekend of Aug. or the first weekend of Sept. =20 Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C26701.877DEC00-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:50:21 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Tim Brown Subject: Re: KR> Gathering 2003 Message-ID: <20020929005021.98527.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> I,too would like to see an August date. With school starting (for us) usually the week before Labor day, any chance of making the gathering is out. I assume other builders have kids so maybe a before school starts Gathering might be in order. Just my two cents worth. Tim --- Patrick Driscoll wrote: I'd like to see the last > weekend of Aug. or the first weekend of Sept. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:34:10 -0500 To: From: gpasc Subject: 2002 KR Gathering Photos Message-ID: Hey gang: Finally, got our photos of the Gathering formatted and uploaded to the web: http://www.greatplainsas.com/kr2002a.html Enjoy. Linda 2002/2003 KR Gathering Sec/Treas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:10:03 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Christine Coolidge Subject: Alt problem. Message-ID: <20020928.191004.-798057.1.USAUS@juno.com> I have a strang problem that I can't figure out. Have any of you had this problem. I have a HAPI case and alt. three wires come out of the case from the alt. and plug into a small solid state aluminim box with cooling fins on it. 1 wire comes out of it. this is the wire with the power output. The problem is when I hook this into my Alt. curcuit, (Alt CB,->alt switch,-> amp meter-> and then back to the + side of the battery) It appears to be draining my battery and the Aluminium box gets really hot. I ran a couple of tests: When I test for ohms between the power wire and the outside of the aluminum box it shows to be directly connected. Also from the alt wire to ground is connected. When I hook this Alt power wire to one side of a light tester with the engine running and the other side to the negative side of the battery the light comes on and gets brighter as I speed up the engine. When I do the same test but hook the light to the positive side of the battery the light is very bright and only slightly brightens with increased RPMs I did one more test: I isolated the wiring system from the battery. I turned on the engine with the mag for spark. I then hooked the Alt power wire into the positve side of the wiring system and there was enough power comming out of the Alt wire to power the 12v electronic ignition with the Mag turned off. My ALt. output power wire apperars to be both grounded but also capable of putting out positve power. Any Ideas????????? Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:14:03 -0700 To: From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Gathering Message-ID: <003101c2667b$e0048b80$2e5d7240@s8z8i0> ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C26640.E66AE360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I will attend next years gathering if it not to far south as I can visit = my Daughter in D.C. at the same time. I have to get permission from the = US Gov. to fly into the US with my Recreation Pilot Permit. I hope to = fly to Ontario this fall if I can get up the guts to do it. Darrin, I = am in Canada 7 miles north of Idaho, do you think a flyin in Canada = would be well attended by you guys down south. We have a beautiful = valley with a paved, lighted (6 PPL ) will light the runway, av gas = 100LL, some really interesting fly boys. www.crestonbc.com/ one guy is = restoring=20 a 1929 Monocoach ( the only one flying) and is finishing an RV 6. I have = been helping him with hangar door building. Hangar is ( 65 x 46) with a = 16' high door. I am getting free space if I paint a full wall aircraft = mural on one wall of the hangar, just like the one in the old Spokane = Airport Hangar. I ramble on but a gathering in Creston,BC, Canada has = possibilities, at least a western meet. Al ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C26640.E66AE360-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************