From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 18 Nov 2002 03:38:29 -0000 Issue 551 Date: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:39 PM krnet Digest 18 Nov 2002 03:38:29 -0000 Issue 551 Topics (messages 13210 through 13238): VW pushrods 13210 by: Brian Kraut 13212 by: Mark Langford 13213 by: Daniel Heath 13214 by: Mark Langford 13215 by: gleone 13216 by: Mark Langford 27 Years of the KR Newsletter CD for Christmas 13211 by: Larry A. Capps Speed 13217 by: Beverly Corvair Octane 13218 by: Justin 13219 by: Mark Langford 13221 by: Mark Langford 13222 by: John.Holeman.asu.edu Re: Corvair Octane/questions 13220 by: Justin flaps/speed brake 13223 by: larry flesner Fuel 13224 by: Beverly Speed Brake 13225 by: Beverly Wheel location on KR2 original retracts 13226 by: Darren Pond 13227 by: Ron Freiberger "reply to" function 13228 by: Mark Langford Side mounted controls 13229 by: Richard Parker Re: KR2 13230 by: Mark Langford adding VW electric start 13231 by: Darren Pond Re: KR2 runway, HOW MUCH 13232 by: Daniel Heath Aeropoxy cure temp 13233 by: Tim Brown 13234 by: Mark Langford 13236 by: Ron Eason 13238 by: ROBERT COOPER the polls have closed... 13235 by: Mark Langford 13237 by: Ron Freiberger Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:57:00 -0500 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: VW pushrods Message-ID: <3DD5DE2C.40607@earthlink.net> In my never ending quest to perform the longest running and most expensive engine overhaul in history I have run accross a snag. I had to change the deck shims from .055" to .143" since I changed from Porsche to VW rods. I didn't realize when I ordered the new shims that I would need pushrods that were .088" longer also. Since my rocker arm geometry has changed my valves will open more now. Does anyone know if I have changed it enough that I will damage the engine if I start it like that? I wouldn't run it long, but I would like to get the mixture set and make sure everything is working O.K. this weekend. If not, I will have to wait another week to run it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:21:20 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> VW pushrods Message-ID: <015f01c28d2f$ffb81a70$0100a8c0@TD310> Brian Kraut wrote: > In my never ending quest to perform the longest running and most > expensive engine overhaul in history I have run accross a snag. I had > to change the deck shims from .055" to .143" since I changed from > Porsche to VW rods. I didn't realize when I ordered the new shims that > I would need pushrods that were .088" longer also. Since my rocker arm > geometry has changed my valves will open more now. Does anyone know if > I have changed it enough that I will damage the engine if I start it > like that? I wouldn't run it long, but I would like to get the mixture > set and make sure everything is working O.K. this weekend. If not, I > will have to wait another week to run it. With the VW you can fix it to some extent by shimming the rocker stands with washers, probably good enough to make it throught the weekend. I don't know if I could really hang a number on that without having one in front of me, but the real test would be whether or not the rocker tip contacts the center of the valve stem in the middle of it's travel. Check out my valve train geometry diatribe at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/valve_geometry.html if you don't know what I mean. It's my favorite! And if you haven't actually checked your valve train geometry, you certainly need to. I assume you're buying some pushrods that you can cut to a custom length (or have a machinist do it). CB Performance sells them, among others. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:18:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> VW pushrods Message-Id: <3DD645B7.000001.01060@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_BN7OQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_CN7OLVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_CN7OLVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: the real test would be whether or not the rocker tip contacts the cen= ter=0D of the valve stem in the middle of it's travel. =0D This is a very important point. You can buy an adjustable push rod to us= e to get the length correct. Those shims only go so far if the length is o= ff. I had to cut mine when I went from an 1835 to a 1915 and the deck height changed.=0D See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath=0D =0D See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_CN7OLVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

RE: the real test would be whether or not the roc= ker tip=20 contacts the center
of the valve stem in the middle of it's trav= el.=20

This is a very important point.  You can buy an adjustable = push=20 rod to use to get the length correct.  Those shims only go so = far if=20 the length is off.  I had to cut mine when I went from an 1835= to a=20 1915 and the deck height changed.

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Da= niel R.=20 Heath

See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org  Clic= k on the=20 Pic.

See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG

&nb= sp;=20

=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMai= l -=20 Email has finally evolved - Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_CN7OLVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_BN7OQL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:44:53 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> VW pushrods Message-ID: <018f01c28d76$57a7b060$0100a8c0@TD310> Last night I wrote: > With the VW you can fix it to some extent by shimming the rocker stands with > washers, probably good enough to make it throught the weekend. But you said you needed longer pushrods, which means shimming is not what you need, you would need shorter rocker arm stands intead. What you might do if it's really important to you is rotate the rocker stands (the part that you use to bolt the rocker to the head) so that you have effectively made your pushrods longer, but you might open up another can of worms there. They are not symmetrical about the bolt hole axis, which means there's a short side and a tall side, but the short side is beveled and you'd be missing a large part of your contact area. Or a machinist could lop .88 off of the bottom of the rocker stand for you too, but still the geometry would not be perfect, depending on valve length. I think you'd be better off to get the new pushrods and proceed NEXT weekend. Good things are worth waiting for. I should know... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:55:55 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: gleone CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> VW pushrods Message-ID: <3DD64E6B.A6627B24@tritel.net> That might make a workable solution for a VW car or MAYBE for taxi work, but I wouldn't want to shim it up with washers once I broke ground. My personal opinion. Mark Langford wrote: > Last night I wrote: > > > With the VW you can fix it to some extent by shimming the rocker stands > with > > washers, probably good enough to make it throught the weekend. > > But you said you needed longer pushrods, which means shimming is not what > you need, you would need shorter rocker arm stands intead. What you might > do if it's really important to you is rotate the rocker stands (the part > that you use to bolt the rocker to the head) so that you have effectively > made your pushrods longer, but you might open up another can of worms there. > They are not symmetrical about the bolt hole axis, which means there's a > short side and a tall side, but the short side is beveled and you'd be > missing a large part of your contact area. Or a machinist could lop .88 off > of the bottom of the rocker stand for you too, but still the geometry would > not be perfect, depending on valve length. I think you'd be better off to > get the new pushrods and proceed NEXT weekend. Good things are worth > waiting for. I should know... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:01:46 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> VW pushrods Message-ID: <002b01c28d78$b3b46090$0100a8c0@TD310> gleone wrote: > That might make a workable solution for a VW car or MAYBE for taxi work, but I > wouldn't want to shim it up with washers once I broke ground. My personal > opinion. I didn't think he was flying yet. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:00:53 -0600 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: 27 Years of the KR Newsletter CD for Christmas Message-ID: <000201c28d2d$241b9f70$0200a8c0@schpankme> Hello KRNet, As a reminder to those that have not yet gotten their - 27 Years of the KR Newsletter on CD -, will be available for immediate shipment up to Christmas, for those that would like one for a Christmas present, so tell the family "you need that CD as a stocking stuffer". To get your own copy "27 Years of the KR Newsletter on CD", you can use PayPal, check or money order. To pay with PayPal: Login to your PayPal account and make your payment to: krnews@attbi.com $47.00 anywhere in the world (shipped) (Illinois Residents add 6.75% sales tax) To Mail Check or Money order: KR Newsletter 10S485 Book Road Naperville, IL. 60564 $45.00 anywhere in the world (shipped) (Illinois Residents add 6.75% sales tax) NOTE: All payments must be submitted in US Dollars, or check drafted on a US financial institution. Best Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:40:51 -0500 To: From: "Beverly" Subject: Speed Message-ID: <003901c28d86$8ad871d0$708b2141@Beverly> ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C28D5C.A1D9D330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello netters, Alittle bit late in the discussion but all need to remember basic = aerodynamics, WHILE building your KR not after you have already built it = and are "stuck" with a high empty weight that you did not intend.=20 Two types of drag are caused or produced when we fly. One is = parasitic drag: this is anything that protrudes into the slipstream, = antennaes, canopies, cowling shape, and even wing and rudder/elevator = leading edge designs. This type of drag increases dramatically with = speed. The abscence of a nose wheel fairing is not very apparent at 115 = knots, but is very apparent when flying at 150 knots. So it is important = for all to know that anything and everything in the slipstream will = cause drag and its sum total will oppose available thrust. The second type of drag is induced drag: it is the undesirable = bi-product of the production of lift. The more lift we need to create, = usually due to higher weight, the more angle of attack we need for a = given speed, and therefore more drag. Case in point: if my aircraft = weight is 100 pounds lighter than the next plane, my angle of attack at = a given airspeed will be lower, therefore less drag produced requiring = less thrust to maintain the same speed. So the heavier plane must = produce more lift at the same airspeed, requiring more thrust, resulting = in less economy, range, endurance, etc... Speed alone does not result in longer landing speeds. True, a higher = approach speed will result in longer landings, but a high speed aircraft = that has an effective flap, and possibly even slat system can fly fast = at altitude, and then slow to gentle approach speeds when in the = pattern. These devices are referred to as high lift devices and cause = the total lift the aircraft has to increase as well as the total drag. = This is beneficial when landing because we want to fly slower, and = steeper without flying faster. This allows our pattern to be closer to = the airport, allowing us to stay higher longer which is far more = important then how much room you need. That increased altitude means a = glide to safety instead of no choice landing. Another benefit of the = flaps is the increased visibility that they provide again due to the = increased angle of descent without increased airspeed. Everyone should = be using flaps on their aircraft if possible. It provides the pilot with = far more options all the way around. My wife and I are building a KR2S and we will be installing flaps on = our plane, rather than the belly board. Why? The belly board is = predominantly a drag producing device similar to a split style flap. I = desire to increase lift as well, because I don't want to just slow down = but rather slow down AND steepen my descent angle significantly. Hope = this helps...FLY SAFE> Colin and Beverly Rainey ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C28D5C.A1D9D330-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:42:08 -0600 To: "KR" From: "Justin" Subject: Corvair Octane Message-ID: <001401c28d7e$57819120$e8dd1818@socal.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C28D4C.0CA3FDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you look on the website (www.flycorvair.com) you will see that the = smalled engine (O-164) has a compression ratio of 9:1 and it can run = pump gas. The bored out O-190 has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 so if = your compression is down to 9:1 why shoudl you not be able to run 91 = auto gas? Mark yours is 8.5:1 so you should be in no doubt that it will = have detenation. Justin my thought, Justin KR2S ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C28D4C.0CA3FDA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:45:00 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Octane Message-ID: <00d901c28d8f$819cc590$0100a8c0@TD310> Justin wrote: >>If you look on the website (www.flycorvair.com) you will see that the smalled engine (O-164) has a compression ratio of 9:1 and it can run pump gas. The bored out O-190 has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 so if your compression is down to 9:1 why shoudl you not be able to run 91 auto gas? Mark yours is 8.5:1 so you should be in no doubt that it will have detenation.<< Thanks for doing all that research for me. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that I won't have any detenation... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:18:42 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Octane Message-ID: <00f401c28d94$365ce8d0$0100a8c0@TD310> In reponse to: >>If you look on the website (www.flycorvair.com) you will see that the smalled engine (O-164) has a compression ratio of 9:1 and it can run pump gas. The bored out O-190 has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 so if your compression is down to 9:1 why shoudl you not be able to run 91 auto gas? Mark yours is 8.5:1 so you should be in no doubt that it will have detenation.<< I wrote: > Thanks for doing all that research for me. I'll sleep better tonight > knowing that I won't have any detenation... That was rather snitty of me, although you might not have even known it. What I should have said is that I spent about a month of my spare time researching detonation and its causes. If you've checked the CorvAircraft archive engine regarding "detonation", you'll have read my findings. Although I've been a motorhead all my life and read lots and lots of articles on the subject, I recently bought about five books on engine design, with particular attention paid to combustion chamber design, detonation, and preignition. I've also gathered SAE research papers, and looked at what the experts in the aircooled aviation community have to say about octane requirements. The Sacramento Skyranch manual (which is one of the best sources of pure aircraft engine design and maintenance information) calls anything over 8:1 a "high compression" engine. And check the recommendations at Great Plain's web site and see what you find. And then check Gene Berg's preaching, and Bob Hoover's sermons, and Lycoming, and Continental, and... I've driven my Karmann Ghia for 28 years with varying compression ratios (that I KNOW, not GUESS), and I can tell you what works in aircooled CARs and what doesn't. I started with 9.9:1 and I can tell you that it doesn't work on 93 octane fuel in a street car, even with water injection. On a really hot day in the summertime, after running it hard, and stomping it at low rpm, the current 8.9:1 2100cc engine will detonate upon acceleration, despite being fed plenty of fuel by dual 48mm Weber carbs running plenty rich under acceleration. But aircraft use is much worse. Airplanes treat car engines as if they are climbing a continuous mountain, all day long, almost wide open throttle, resulting in much higher heat loads. Cars never see that for more than a few seconds (or you'd be doing 120 mph). Buses can come close if you want to do 85 mph down the interstate all day long, but the life expectancy of a Type 1 engine in a bus isn't anything to brag about either. I used to be a VW mechanic at the dealership in Las Vegas (specializing in engines), and in the summer they'd be lined up out front on Monday morning, towed in after sucking a valve or seizing a piston. I know William Wynne's web site says 10.5:1 for the 3100cc running on 100LL, but there is no way you'll ever catch me trying it! He also says 9:1 on auto fuel, but let the record show that almost all of his flying is done on 100LL with 9:1 cr. I don't know for sure what I can get away with running 93 octane fuel, but I did the reasearch to find out for myself, rather than believe something I found on the web...and my decision was 8.4 was as close as want to dare, initially. I can always raise it later, but even raising it to 9:1 only gives me 2.5 horsepower, so I'm not sure it's worth fretting over. And I'm going to start with 100LL, just to be safe, and ease into the lower realm as testing progresses. You are free to do your own research and set yours wherever you want it, however... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:17:51 -0700 (MST) From: John.Holeman@asu.edu Cc: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Octane Message-id: A little off topic for this particular discussion, but last time I checked, 2007 is still scheduled to be the year that all leaded gasoline will be phased out in the United States. Has anyone given any thought about what engine/fuel we'll need to use once 100LL is not available anymore? On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Mark Langford wrote: > going to start with 100LL, just to be safe, and ease into the lower realm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:58:05 -0600 To: "KR" From: "Justin" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Octane/questions Message-ID: <000501c28d80$9168f3e0$e8dd1818@socal.rr.com> You must run a prop extention on a corvair? Also what prop size will you be running with a corvair? Is any FLYING KR2 on the list? I know there is kr2 with retracts flying a corvair and I would like to talk with him about the corvair. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Octane > Justin wrote: > > >>If you look on the website (www.flycorvair.com) you will see that the > smalled engine (O-164) has a compression ratio of 9:1 and it can run pump > gas. The bored out O-190 has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 so if your > compression is down to 9:1 why shoudl you not be able to run 91 auto gas? > Mark yours is 8.5:1 so you should be in no doubt that it will have > detenation.<< > > Thanks for doing all that research for me. I'll sleep better tonight > knowing that I won't have any detenation... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:24:49 -0600 To: From: larry flesner Subject: flaps/speed brake Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021116142449.00871e50@mail.midwest.net> SNIP+++++++++++++++++++++++ My wife and I are building a KR2S and we will be installing flaps on our plane, rather than the belly board. Why? The belly board is predominantly a drag producing device similar to a split style flap. I desire to increase lift as well, because I don't want to just slow down but rather slow down AND steepen my descent angle significantly. Hope this helps...FLY SAFE> >Colin and Beverly Rainey ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Colin, A speed brake (belly board) ,when deployed ,increases the drag so you can lower the nose and get a higher decent rate ,with better visibility, without an increase in airspeed. It has the SAME effect as lowering flaps EXCEPT the speed brake does not increase lift to give a lower stall speed. Because of the (relatively) low landing speed of the KR and small area of the flaps, I decided to go the speed brake route for simplisity. If weren't using an electric motor to deploy it I probably could have saved weight over a flap system. Speaking of simplisity, has any of you ever seen a self-deploying speed brake? It is hinged on the rear edge and lowered with a T-handled rope (like the starter rope on your lawn mower) attached to the front edge. The rope feeds through a hole that has a side notch cut in it. Knots in the rope hold the brake at any position chosen by slipping the rope into the slot and catching a knot. It's been a long time since I've seen anything that's really new in aircraft design. Most things that appear new have usually been done before. For the most part we just keep re-inventing the wheel. Not having flaps I do loose the benefit of using them to lower the stall speed on landing and when taking off to shorten the ground run (get's the weight off the wheels sooner on soft fields, etc.). My Tripacer manual states that deploying full flaps at rotation can shorten the ground run by 20% and it works. This is not true for all aircraft with flaps as each is a different design and must be flown properly to get the greatest benefit for that particular layout. Every square foot of an aircraft is a series of compromises. Decide what you want it to do BEST and that dictates the design. All that's left at that point is to through money at it. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:06:13 -0500 To: From: "Beverly" Subject: Fuel Message-ID: <001401c28de6$498f7c90$708b2141@Beverly> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C28DBC.60745540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The growing consensus is that diesels will replace the gas burners and = are in fact already replacing them in Europe. There are two one from = Germany, and one from France that are certified there. Colin ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C28DBC.60745540-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:14:25 -0500 To: From: "Beverly" Subject: Speed Brake Message-ID: <002601c28de7$6ead05f0$708b2141@Beverly> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28DBD.85B80440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Larry, I am corrected on some of the benefits of the speed brake, and if one = wants to cover all possibilities, then employing both at their = respective times would be the best, using a light weight manual system. = As the most effective compromise, I will be using flaps due to the = benefits we both have discussed. Short field takeoff performance can be = as critical today as landing. Often times I am reminded of limitations = by observing what my aircraft's landing capabilities are versus its = takeoff. Landing typically is 2/3 the room necessary for takeoff, = especially in this high density altitude area/days of Florida. FLY SAFE Colin ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28DBD.85B80440-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:04:14 -0500 To: From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Wheel location on KR2 original retracts Message-ID: HI All I've been staring at my newly purchase 375 hour KR2 with original retracts. My Taylor nosed over this fall on maiden flight do to wheel position being to far aft. Now I looking at this KR. These little wheels are a long ways back from the leading edge??? I have been warned by previous pilot owner that its really light on the tail? Has any one figured a way to allow wheels to swing farther forward? I understand that with wheel fairings the plane did not fly any faster with wheel up. He took them off so as to slow the bird down in circuit and ground effect. I hate to fix it if it ain't broken but I have already purchased one to many props for my Taylor. Darren Pond CF-VML Taylor Mono plane almost flying. C-GGGW KR2 1835vw coming to a airport near you this spring PondHopper 2 place 2.2 turbo (building stage) Cambridge Ont Canada pond27@rogers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:24:07 -0500 To: , From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Wheel location on KR2 original retracts Message-ID: Here's one more opinion from a person who's never flown a KR; The best handling planes I've flown had the (taildragger) wheels basically at the leading edge of the wing. Ron freiberger, EAA Tech Counselor #4125 -----Original Message----- From: Darren Pond [mailto:pond27@rogers.com] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 12:04 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Wheel location on KR2 original retracts HI All I've been staring at my newly purchase 375 hour KR2 with original retracts. My Taylor nosed over this fall on maiden flight do to wheel position being to far aft. Now I looking at this KR. These little wheels are a long ways back from the leading edge??? I have been warned by previous pilot owner that its really light on the tail? Has any one figured a way to allow wheels to swing farther forward? I understand that with wheel fairings the plane did not fly any faster with wheel up. He took them off so as to slow the bird down in circuit and ground effect. I hate to fix it if it ain't broken but I have already purchased one to many props for my Taylor. Darren Pond CF-VML Taylor Mono plane almost flying. C-GGGW KR2 1835vw coming to a airport near you this spring PondHopper 2 place 2.2 turbo (building stage) Cambridge Ont Canada pond27@rogers.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:28:17 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: "reply to" function Message-ID: <00cb01c28e5e$b78d8390$0100a8c0@TD310> It's just a matter of time before you KRnetters hear about this, so I'll just go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. The members of the CorvAircraft list just had a vote on how they wanted the "reply" function to work. The vote was four to one in favor of changing it so that "reply" sends the message directly to the list, rather than to the original poster. We might as well have the same vote here. I've set up a "rule" in my email tools that will automatically put any message with a YES in the SUBJECT into a "yes" folder, and anything with a NO in the subject into the "no" folder. After I get enough data, I'll pronounce a winner and I'll change it to whichever way the majority wants it. I really don't care either way, as long as if we change it there's not a dramatic increase in messages to the list that was meant to go to one individual. So send ME (at langford@hiwaay.net ) a message with either YES or NO in the SUBJECT. YES means you want to change it so that replies go to the whole list rather than the original poster, NO means leave it like it is, which is that hitting "reply" goes only to the original poster, not the whole list. Don't bother writing anything in the message, because I'm not going to even open them, and I probably won't even check to see who voted how, so fire away. I'll probably know the results in a few hours, so don't bother voting after Sunday. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:21:07 +0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Side mounted controls Message-ID: I once flew in a Long Ez with side mounted controls and want to adopt the same. (I've done all my flying in 3 wheelers and truly think my right hand is best suited for operating instruments and tuning in Rush on the ADF) Can anyone recommend a good site and or push pull cable components? Rich Parker Peterborough, NH >From: "Mark Langford" >To: "KRnet" >Subject: KR> "reply to" function >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:28:17 -0600 > >It's just a matter of time before you KRnetters hear about this, so I'll >just go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. The members of the >CorvAircraft list just had a vote on how they wanted the "reply" function >to >work. The vote was four to one in favor of changing it so that "reply" >sends the message directly to the list, rather than to the original poster. >We might as well have the same vote here. I've set up a "rule" in my email >tools that will automatically put any message with a YES in the SUBJECT >into >a "yes" folder, and anything with a NO in the subject into the "no" folder. >After I get enough data, I'll pronounce a winner and I'll change it to >whichever way the majority wants it. I really don't care either way, as >long as if we change it there's not a dramatic increase in messages to the >list that was meant to go to one individual. >So send ME (at langford@hiwaay.net ) a message with either YES or NO in the >SUBJECT. YES means you want to change it so that replies go to the whole >list rather than the original poster, NO means leave it like it is, which >is >that hitting "reply" goes only to the original poster, not the whole list. >Don't bother writing anything in the message, because I'm not going to even >open them, and I probably won't even check to see who voted how, so fire >away. I'll probably know the results in a few hours, so don't bother >voting >after Sunday. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:55:46 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Cc: "ANDREW WORBEY" Subject: Fw: KR2 Message-ID: <044f01c28e8c$778b2ad0$0100a8c0@TD310> ------=_NextPart_000_044C_01C28E5A.2C6A4CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would you KR2 pilots please reply to Andrew at andrew.worbey@virgin.net = with a few answers to his question (below)? I don't think I'm = qualified, yet... Thanks, Mark ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ANDREW WORBEY=20 To: langford@hiwaay.net=20 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: KR2 hello i am a KR2 owner in bedford uk could you help how longer runway do = you need for take off. My KR2 IS FITED WITH THE 65HP VW but it seems to = eat runway, Thanks Andrew ------=_NextPart_000_044C_01C28E5A.2C6A4CC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:51:39 -0500 To: From: "Darren Pond" Subject: adding VW electric start Message-ID: HI All What does it take to add electric start to a 1835 vw. How much weight and cost? what parts do I need? Darren Pond CF-VML Taylor Mono plane almost flying. C-GGGW KR2 1835vw coming to a airport near you this spring PondHopper 2 place 2.2 turbo (building stage) Cambridge Ont Canada pond27@rogers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:37:48 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Fw: KR2 runway, HOW MUCH Message-Id: <3DD8608C.000006.01072@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_036R12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_036RWCW0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_036RWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew,=0D I don't think there is one answer to this question. I had an 1835 on a 6= 00# KR and could get out of a 2500 ft grass field with trees on the end. I thought that mine took a lot of runway. I have seen some that appear to jump off the runway as soon as they get moving. There are a lot of facto= rs that can cause a long ground run and most of them you cannot see.=0D What engine do you have? What prop are you using? What RPM are you turning? How heavy is it? How much parasitic drag is there. How well i= s it "in rig". Those are all the factors I can think of and I'll bet there are several more.=0D See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath=0D =0D See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_036RWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrew,

I don't think there is one answer to this question.  I had = an 1835=20 on a 600# KR and could get out of a 2500 ft grass field with trees = on the=20 end.  I thought that mine took a lot of runway.  I have s= een=20 some that appear to jump off the runway as soon as they get moving.=  =20 There are a lot of factors that can cause a long ground run and mos= t of=20 them you cannot see.

What engine do you have?  What prop are you=20 using?  What RPM are you turning?  How heavy is it? = How=20 much parasitic drag is there.  How well is it "in rig".  = Those=20 are all the factors I can think of and I'll bet there are several=20 more.

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Da= niel R.=20 Heath

See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org  Clic= k on the=20 Pic.

See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG

&nb= sp;=20

=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMai= l -=20 Email has finally evolved - Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_036RWCW0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_036R12S0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:38:12 -0800 (PST) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: Aeropoxy cure temp Message-ID: <20021118003812.36804.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> I have read the archives and found info on post-cure and "I think" info on temperature for working with Aeropoxy. The containers are of no help and neither is AS&S catalog. Does anyone KNOW the minimum temp for working/curing Aeropoxy? For example, will it safely cure at 40....at 50...at 60? Or should I heat my garage to above 70? And for how long should I maintain this whatever heat?....4 hours,6,8,12,24? If you've got specifics rather than "I think?" please respond. My area is now reaching highs in the 50s and lows in the 30s. I can heat my garage to any temp. Tim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:12:44 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Aeropoxy cure temp Message-ID: <047d01c28e9f$9a04b820$0100a8c0@TD310> Tim Brown wrote: > Does anyone KNOW the minimum temp for > working/curing Aeropoxy? My "personal minimum" ( based entirely on my own experience) for using Aeropoxy is 70 degrees. Get much below that and it'll never fully cure, especially if you mix it with micro (which slows down any exothermic heating). Micro which has cured below 70 will gum up sand paper almost instantly. During the winter I do the Aeropoxy work in the part of my basement that I can "superheat", and set the thermostat to 77 degrees. The next morning it's hard enough to sand. I have posted the instruction sheet that SHOULD have come with Aeropoxy (I got it from the manufacturer) at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/aero1.gif and http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/aero2.gif , but I don't think either one answers that particular question... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:40:19 -0600 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Aeropoxy cure temp Message-ID: <004801c28ea3$73f16ad0$5a631e41@Administration> Using a hot air gun will kick off the reaction at temps below 70 deg F. The rest of the curing slows down with cooler temps. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: Re: KR> Aeropoxy cure temp > Tim Brown wrote: > > > Does anyone KNOW the minimum temp for > > working/curing Aeropoxy? > > My "personal minimum" ( based entirely on my own experience) for using > Aeropoxy is 70 degrees. Get much below that and it'll never fully cure, > especially if you mix it with micro (which slows down any exothermic > heating). Micro which has cured below 70 will gum up sand paper almost > instantly. During the winter I do the Aeropoxy work in the part of my > basement that I can "superheat", and set the thermostat to 77 degrees. The > next morning it's hard enough to sand. I have posted the instruction sheet > that SHOULD have come with Aeropoxy (I got it from the manufacturer) at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/aero1.gif and > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/aero2.gif , but I don't think either one > answers that particular question... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:32:21 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Aeropoxy cure temp Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C28E89.31F811C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable During cold weather I use halogen lights to cure the epoxy. I have a trip= od which has two 500W halogens on it. After the layup I place the lights = a safe distance (18"-30") away from the layup and leave them on overnight= . By morning the layup will be dry to the touch and warm. I will usually = wait another 24 hours before sanding. Picture at http://www.jackandsandyc= ooper.com/leftwingrepair.html I saw a halogen setup like this in a Sears ad last week for about $25. Jack Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Brown Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:33 PM To: Group KR NET Subject: KR> Aeropoxy cure temp I have read the archives and found info on post-cure and "I think" info on temperature for working with Aeropoxy. The containers are of no help and neither is AS&S catalog. Does anyone KNOW the minimum temp for working/curing Aeropoxy? =20 For example, will it safely cure at 40....at 50...at 60? Or should I heat my garage to above 70? And for how long should I maintain this whatever heat?....4 hours,6,8,12,24? If you've got specifics rather than "I think?" please respond. My area is now reaching highs in the 50s and lows in the 30s. I can heat my garage to any temp. Tim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C28E89.31F811C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:23:09 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: the polls have closed... Message-ID: <048e01c28ea1$0ec49bc0$0100a8c0@TD310> ...and the YES's have it, by a margin of 20 to 12. The scary thing is that of those 20, 7 couldn't manage to follow the instructions of putting the word YES in the subject, rather than the body of the message. Of the NOs, all did it correctly. Hmmmmm. Maybe those votes should be "disqualified". But being the nice guy that I am, I've gone ahead and changed it so that hitting REPLY goes to the entire list, for now. We'll see how it goes. I never cease to be amazed at how difficult it is for some folks to figure out how to email the original sender of a message. Putting your email address in your signature would certainly be a big help. (In Outlook go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, and SIGNATURE to create one). Now, if you hit "reply all", all you're going to get is two KRnet@mailinglists.org s in the TO field. If you only want to send it to the original poster, you'll have to find the guy's email address somewhere in the text, the header, or under "properties" and "details", or somewhere like that. For those that don't know how to cut and paste, you put the cursor at the beginning of the address, push the left button down and hold it while sliding to the right until it's all highlighted, release the button (leaving it all highlighted, if you did it right). Then put the cursor over the highlighted area (very important) and push the RIGHT button and choose "copy " from the menu. Put the cursor in the TO field and RIGHT click, and pick "paste". So the bottom line now is please be very careful replying to messages until we all get used to this difference. We'll see how this goes... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:11:03 -0500 To: From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> the polls have closed... Message-ID: What a pain in the butt solution for a non problem. Another concession to those too dilatory to learn to use the program. Belts AND suspenders for those dolts. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:23 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> the polls have closed... ...and the YES's have it, by a margin of 20 to 12. The scary thing is that of those 20, 7 couldn't manage to follow the instructions of putting the word YES in the subject, rather than the body of the message. Of the NOs, all did it correctly. Hmmmmm. Maybe those votes should be "disqualified". But being the nice guy that I am, I've gone ahead and changed it so that hitting REPLY goes to the entire list, for now. We'll see how it goes. I never cease to be amazed at how difficult it is for some folks to figure out how to email the original sender of a message. Putting your email address in your signature would certainly be a big help. (In Outlook go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, and SIGNATURE to create one). Now, if you hit "reply all", all you're going to get is two KRnet@mailinglists.org s in the TO field. If you only want to send it to the original poster, you'll have to find the guy's email address somewhere in the text, the header, or under "properties" and "details", or somewhere like that. For those that don't know how to cut and paste, you put the cursor at the beginning of the address, push the left button down and hold it while sliding to the right until it's all highlighted, release the button (leaving it all highlighted, if you did it right). Then put the cursor over the highlighted area (very important) and push the RIGHT button and choose "copy " from the menu. Put the cursor in the TO field and RIGHT click, and pick "paste". So the bottom line now is please be very careful replying to messages until we all get used to this difference. We'll see how this goes... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************