From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Dec 2002 02:33:43 -0000 Issue 582 Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 6:34 PM krnet Digest 19 Dec 2002 02:33:43 -0000 Issue 582 Topics (messages 13923 through 13931): 4 Months Australian KR-2S Tests/Less Common Forward C.G. 13923 by: Donald Blankenship 2004 Gathering 13924 by: Jim Faughn 13925 by: larry flesner 13926 by: Mark Langford 13927 by: Larry A. Capps 13928 by: Dan Heath 13929 by: John & Elaine Roffey Re: 2004 KR Gathering 13930 by: Dan Heath 13931 by: Mark Jones Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:33:44 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Donald Blankenship" Subject: 4 Months Australian KR-2S Tests/Less Common Forward C.G. Message-ID: <20021218233344.73832.qmail@mail.com> From: "Christian Kogelmann" To: "Donald Blankenship" References: <20021211025909.43343.qmail@mail.com> Subject: Re: Addendum to Addendum to Addendum: Christian C.G. Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:47:11 +0100 Don, thanks for the advise. You may share my experience on the net. The 1030 lbs take off weight is about 50 lbs above the KR-2S Design weight. I have a report from Bill Marcy, were he pictured the V-n diagram and other data at 1050lbs. We have talked to our CAA guy and we could agree, that this would be our Max takeoff weight. By the way there are a lot heavier KR-2's flying around. When I remove the engine mount spacer I will of course review/recalculate the W&B, maybe I will even put the little racer on the scales again. Currently I am at an Air Force airfield with a 12 000 ft runway. We have perfect conditions there for testing. My test pilot is a retired Air Force pilot with loads of experience. As I said in my previous mail, we were successful in establishing stall speeds, if you want to publish them as well: at approx 900lbs we have 48kts with flaps; 54 clean at approx 1030lbs we have 50kts with flaps; 55 clean at approx 1030lbs during rain we have 54kts with flaps; 59kts clean. The speed accuracy was were verified with a chase plane (Super Dimona Motorglider). The C/G was right in the middle of the range at 1030lbs were it flew best > and was easy to land. The next test we need to according to our CAA guy is to test the trimability of the plane. As you can see our authority is also aware about the W&B situation and he is a very experienced aeronautical engineer. Do not worry I am in good hands. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I will advise further test flying results. Are you interested in a photo of my KR? Best Regards Christian ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Blankenship To: Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:59 AM Subject: Re: Addendum to Addendum to Addendum: Christian C.G. Christian, Step very carefully my friend. I wrote you originally, because something did not sound right, and it still does not. Removing the extensions you put on the engine mounts is going in the correct direction, but as you do so, removing the weight in the tail should also be done. I hope putting weight in the tail and engine mount extensions aren't common KR builder techniques. Too much weight in the nose and you have a perhaps overly stable plane that doesn't want to take off or is "stick heavy." Much worse than that, I can tell you weight in the tail is not normally anything a person would want to do. Too much weight in the tail can create a very unstable object that just looks like a plane before it crashes. You should obtain the best weights and balance calculations or help with those calculations that are available to you where you are. A clearer picture of what may be happening seems to be coming forth, though. At 1030 pounds, the plane is much heavier than the design weight. That means landing speed (and take off speed) must be greater than the design calls out. It also means the plane flies slightly nose up compared to what it would do at a lighter weight. The nose up attitude places the wing at sufficient up "angle of attack" to achieve the necessary lift for the airspeed. As you near the runway for landing, the airspeed is cut for landing and the nose may drop as the airspeed drops. The heavy weight of the plane is too bad. If you can't cut the weight and do it in a way that is closer to plans, you may never have a plane that behaves the way you would want. Also, this last memo from you implies you are trying to cut the landing or take off distance. A 3000-foot unobstructed landing or take off area is too short for the trials you are doing. I hope you are using at least a 4000 to 5000-foot unobstructed runway and 10,000 feet if you can get it. I wrote to say I have concern for you according to your flight test reports. Please be careful and get some help there. A good aeronautical engineer would not charge you a dime. A bad one might, so it's easy to pick good ones from bad ones. A good one would also enjoy it. If you give me permission, I will share this with others on the Krnet who I am certain are or will have similar problems. If not, that's OK, too. Good luck and happy flying, Don Blankenship ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Kogelmann" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:45:13 +0100 To: "Donald Blankenship" Subject: Re: Addendum to Addendum to Addendum: Christian C.G. Donald, thanks for your help. We have just completed some more test flying at an Austrian Air Force Base. We were the smallest airplane around but got the most attention. We flew about 6 hours and determined take-off and landing roll distance. After our little incident (overshoot at landing) at the first flight, we could get the landing distance to within 1200 feet now. Even with additional weight in the tail off the airplane we still did not manage to get rid of the nose heaviness with half fuel and a light pilot. The take off weight was 900 lbs. The little racer (130kts @ 3000 RPM) flew very balanced at C/G Position at about half way of the published C/G Range (right in the middle, shows a very good basic design....). Trim indication was neutral. (Take off weight was about 1030lbs) So we are, inspite of adding 6 lbs of lead, still nose heavy. We are definitely going to remove the engine spacers and check if we still need weight in the tail. The removal of the weights should bring us all the advantages you were pointing out as well. Appart from the C/G testing the airplane flew very well. The control inputs are very balanced and direct but crisp. The airplane translates stick movement immediately into action. We are very please with the all over performance. Talk to you Christian OE-VPD ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Blankenship To: Christian Kogelmann Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:29 PM Subject: Addendum to Addendum to Addendum: Christian C.G. Christian, I just sent you a reply to your latest reply, but I forgot to add one more important benefit of eliminating the 1.5-inch engine mount spacers: Benefit c) The horizontal tail would no longer have to counterbalance the 1.5 inch x 180 lb extra moment of the spacers. In other words, eliminating the spacers will allow your horizontal tail to work a little less. I know you put extra weight in the tail to counterbalance the forward cg, but imagine what that extra weight is doing: picture two weights on a small bar. The bar is balanced one-third along its length by a heavier weight on the short end and a lighter weight on the longer end. Bump the heavier weight a little and the lighter weight goes up and down a lot. Counterbalancing that up and down motion is unnecessary work that has to be done with stick and tail forces as long as you have unneeded spacers and some or all of that tail ballast. Even if the optimum tail leading edge incidence angle would be more downward for your engine weight than plans call for, the difference between optimum and your tail mounting angle would not present itself quite as much if you eliminate the engine mount spacers. See my other message for additional benefits. --db ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Kogelmann" Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:43:44 +0200 To: "Donald Blankenship" Subject: Re: Addendum: Christian C.G. Donald, sorry for my delay answering you but other business kept me from doing so. I very much appreciate your thoughts, and I am worried too about this condition. Especially as you say forward C/G is no problem for the KR. The trim tab movement was checked prior to first flight. But I guess I will check it again, just making sure. My horizontal stabilizer is lying on the top longerons, and considering that I build a typical banana boat that means that the stabi is about 1/2° leading edge down. This small stabilizer down angle should actually prevent the pitch down force. The engine is a standard GPAS 2180 with Ellison TBI. The battery is about 13lbs and mounted on the firewall. The firewall forward is pretty standard. The only change is the spacer which moves the engine forward. I estimate the engine weighs in at about 180lbs. I know my view of engine mount bending is simple but if you look at a Cessna 172 mount the tubes are about the same size/layout, but the engine is further forward and the O320 is for sure a lot heavier than 180lbs. I haven't had a chance for more flight testing (vacation, family and my job have prevented that) but I am planning to get some more tests on the way early October. With further testing I shall be able to pinpoint the problem. At the moment I am very tempted to remove the spacers.... Thanks for your thoughts. Best regards Christian OE-VPD ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Blankenship To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: Addendum: Christian C.G. Sorry to send the same message twice last time, my finger hit return and it sent again. I do want to note a possibility that seems unlikely. You wrote you needed full tail-down trim as well as stick pull. By full tail-down trim, I'm sure you were indicating that the net force on the tail was down by deflecting the trailing edge of the trim tab(s) downward which in turn deflects the elevator trailing edge upward. It's just possible but would not be the first time someone had installed trim tabs to deflect in the same direction as the elevator. That would cause the elevator to need more stick pull than with no trim tab at all. Just thought I'd mention the possibility, no matter how remote. --db ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Blankenship" Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 01:37:35 -0500 To: dgb@usa.com Subject: Christian C.G. Christian, I read a lot of the kr netter e-mail and most of the messages > get thrown away or stored with no further thought until I need the info for something I'm doing. Your message below stuck in my mind, because it seems unusual. I know you were replying to a message, but your input sounds much more deserving of more study. I cannot recall other builders reporting that their c.g.s were too far forward, especially 2/3 aft in the allowable range with two people on board. It's not like it can't or hasn't happened, it's just that I've never heard of it. You wrote that you needed full tail-down trim with additional stick back on the first flight. Having to get the nose up using stick pull Does seem to imply a forward c.g. You extended the engine mounting 1.5 inches which moved the c.g. forward slightly, then put about 6 pounds of weight in the tail which countered that force. Putting 6 pounds of weight in the tail probably wouldn't have been needed if the mounts hadn't been extended. If you had a forward c.g., it wouldn't seem like you would need to extend the engine mounts any. Also, extending engine mounts increases bending on them that they may not have been designed to handle. The only thing I am pointing out is that 2 + 2 seems to equal 5 in your case somehow, and that is not good. It is not a criticism. Many if not most KR owners struggle to get their c.g. even millimeters forward of the aftmost recommended limit to avoid neutral or unstable pitch characteristics. You must be right about the forward c.g., but why? Is your engine heavy? Also, if your cg is 2/3 aft within recommended, your flying qualities for cruising flight should be superior to most KR, albeit your tail incidence may not be set correctly. If you have a heavy engine or large header tank, it can be in your favor, but if they are heavier than plans call for, your horizontal tail could be mounted at the wrong incidence angle for your weight configuration to avoid excessive stick pull for long periods. You might want to contact other KR owners that fly with similar engine size and weight as yours. They may have info to help decide whether they have experienced similar stick pull, c.g., and have the same h.t. incidence your plane has. It seems possible that the leading edge of your horizontal tail could need to come down somewhat before you can take the lead out of the tail. Heck, maybe the lead is the easiest solution, but it's rare. Something may not be adding up. --Don Blankenship Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:54:06 +0200 From: "Christian Kogelmann" Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance To: "Krnet" , Based on the KR-2 C/G problem, I installed 1 3/4 inch sapcers Between the engine and the mount of my KR-2S (otherwise plans build). I guess I build the tail very light because the C/G is most forward. During the first flight the trim was full tail down and we still had to pull back a little to make it fly straight. Hence, I ended up putting 2,8kg of lead into the tail. With this additional weight and minimum fuel plus pilot and passenger, the C/G is still only 2/3 aft within the allowable range. I am planning to reduce the spacing from 1 3/4 inch to maybe only 1/2 inch, but doing this I have to change the cowlings and some other changes. This will be definitely a winter (2004 or 05) project. To your question, the KR-2S is if build per plan, very well balanced and does not require any C/G tweaking. LG Chris OE-VPD (still test flying...) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: KR> Weight and Balance
About a year ago I flew in a KR-2 and found the center of gravity was too far "aft" with 2 people in the airplane, and required a faster (wheel) landing than would be used in most conventional-gear airplanes.
Other than that, this airplane seemed to be extremely well built; leading me to believe that it was unlikely that the airplane was "misbuilt".  Is this (center of gravity problem) a common configuration in KR-2 airplanes ?  Is it better in the later model Kr's (such as the
KR-2S) ?

-- 
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:06:30 -0600
To: "KR Net Response" 
From: "Jim Faughn" 
Subject: 2004 Gathering
Message-ID: 

I get the digest and find it absolutely wonderful the interest there is in
where the 2004 KR Gathering should be held. I've been going to them since
just after they started. My first was in Dan Diehl's hanger with about 45 or
50 other KR enthusiasts. The event was great, I got to see about 5 KR's and
Steve Bennett doing slips in his KR-1. That sight sticks with me today. How
a guy as tall as Steve got in and out of a stock KR-1 was also pretty
amazing.

I've hosted or helped host the KR Gathering, I think 5 or 6 times in the
same time period. Bottom line is that the person or people that want to host
it have to produce the results. If you think about it, and I'm sure you
have, then 150 or so people will plan on their vacation time and expend
money to head to the KR Gathering. This means that if they spend somewhere
around $300 apiece and that would be a really cheap trip, then they have
expended $45,000 for that weekend. My actual guess, considering airfares and
car rentals, would be $60,000 or more. Not something to take lightly since
most of the KR builders and pilots are on a budget. To me, this means the
person that will host the Gathering must have been to some of the Gatherings
to see what works and what doesn't and have a commitment to make the best
for the people attending who spend that $60,000.

Thank you Steve & Linda Bennett & Mike and Terri Garbez for all of your
commitment last year and this next year because I haven't done that much.
Without your local commitment, this Gathering wouldn't be worth the trip and
you make it worth it.

Speaking of thanks, the KR Gathering is a no-thanks type of commitment. In
other words, you may be out $500-$1000 of your own money in preparation for
the event and that takes a special person. You make it up in T-shirt sales
and donations. In other words you could lose your ?!?! You do it for the
love of the KR and the people that attend which brings its own reward once
it is over.

I can only add one more thing. The other reality is that you need airplanes
at the Gathering. The KR's that have participated are primarily from the
east and mid-west. Should it be in California? Well, if California has
several regional Gatherings where they get 10+ KR's then yes. When I went to
a KR Gathering I wanted to see KR's, so for the time being, I think it would
be best in the Midwest or should I say the Southeast-Midwest?

By the way, Larry would be a great host! Larry, show up in Red Oak and make
that proposal as I know you will.

N891JF
Jim Faughn
4323D Laclede Ave.
St. Louis, MO 63108
(314)652-7659
Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:11:46 -0600
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: larry flesner 
Subject: 2004 Gathering
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021218191146.00882990@mail.midwest.net>

>I would actually suggest moving the event to Williamson County Airport in
>Marion, IL. (45 minutes south of Mt Vernon);  It could easily accommodate us
>with plenty of evening entertainment, restaurants and hotels.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Williamson County airport would be a very good location and I've 
even spoken with them and the tourism bureau and they would lend 
their support.  Larry Capps knows the airport as he grew up just
five minutes away in Herrin Illinois.  The one (and only) drawback
is that the airport has a control tower.  I spoke with the controlers
and they would be supportive also as long as they got a ride in a
KR.   I've spoken with a number of the "fliers" at past Gatherings 
and the tower would kill the "atmosphere" of a Gathering for them.
The Mt.Vernon airport could handle a Gathering twice the size as 
the KR Gathering and still not be crowded but is still a "small town"
airport.  The city also has the facilities to handle those attending.
I would make a more formal pitch when the time comes and only
threw it out there for early consideration so it doesn't get left out.
Thanks to those that have already offered to help if it is chosen.

Larry Flesner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:24:44 -0600
To: 
From: "Mark Langford" 
Subject: Re: KR> 2004 Gathering
Message-ID: <001201c2a6fd$6a09a970$0a00a8c0@800Athlon>

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virg wrote:

        >How about Huntsville Ala, Virg

Last time I checked, they still had a tower and substantial jet traffic =
on their twin 10,000 foot runways.  Even the close-by strips like =
Madison Executive and Hazel Green (which is 4 miles from my house, and =
where' I'll keep my plane) are awfully close to tower scrutiny.

But I have been kicking around having a little sub-gathering at my house =
in a few months, after I get a coat of paint on the bottom and get it =
flipped over again.  I've been putting several local folks off until I =
get it flipped over, so I might as well invite whoever wants to show up. =
I guess this would be a Saturday only thing, with BBQ here for lunch.  =
It wouldn't really be a flyin thing, since I'd have to keep leaving to =
pickup and deposit people at the airport, unless some of the folks that =
were here volunteered to do it.  I'll let y'all know if I decide to do =
it.  I probably ought to spend the day working on the plane though...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:54:58 -0600
To: 
From: "Larry A. Capps" 
Subject: RE: KR> 2004 Gathering
Message-ID: <000201c2a701$a2c80aa0$0200a8c0@schpankme>

Ok Mr Flesner, I'll volunteer and support your airport decsion when and if
we get the nod for Mt Vernon 2004.

One last note:  it was my understanding that Williamson County Airport
ceased tower operation after 5:00pm on Friday and reopened Tower Ops on
Monday morning 7:00am?

Larry A. Capps
KR Newsletter
Naperville, IL

-----Original Message-----
From: larry flesner
Subject: 2004 Gathering

Williamson County airport would be a very good location

The one (and only) drawback
is that the airport has a control tower.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:26:11 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
To: 
From: "Dan Heath" 
Subject: Re: KR> 2004 Gathering
Message-Id: <3E015873.000022.01004@dan>

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Larry,=0D
=0D
Your suggestion for 2004 sounds real good.=0D
 =0D
DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D
See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D
=0D
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC=0D
=0D
See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org  Click on the Pic.=0D
=0D
See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D
=0D
KR Purchasing Info at: http://fly-kr.com  =0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
 =0D
From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D
Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 06:40:34 AM=0D
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D
Subject: KR> 2004 Gathering=0D
 =0D
Netters,=0D
=0D
I've attended every Gathering since 1990 (attendance record, maybe?)=0D
and have enjoyed each and every one. Each year Jeanette Rand=0D
suggests I host the Gathering in Southern Illinois so she can combine =0D
the trip to visit family. She grew up and graduated high school=0D
just eight miles from where I live. She and Ken started their college=0D
days at Southern Illinois University. =0D
=0D
There are two great airports=0D
near where I live but they are both tower controled. A third airport=0D
just fourty miles north of here would make an ideal gathering site.=0D
Mt. Vernon Illinois airport has intersecting runways, plenty of hangar=0D
space, a large ramp area, an FBO, a shop with an A & P/ IA, =0D
currently has a resturant/bar in the terminal, plenty of hotel rooms=0D
and resturants in the area, etc. It is located at the intersection of=0D
I-64 (E/W) and I-57 (N/S) interstate highways and is just 75 miles=0D
east of St. Louis for those flying in commercial. The airport=0D
manager and local EAA chapter (active), I'm sure, would lend their=0D
support as well as the local Chamber of Comm and the local =0D
tourism office. I have not approached them on this directly yet=0D
but suggestions in the past drew a very positive response.=0D
The location would be pretty much central for everyone East=0D
of the Rockies. You can go to  and check=0D
it out. Airport identifier is MVN . At the bottom of that=0D
page is info about the city, etc.=0D
=0D
This is not an "offical" proposal yet but I wanted to throw it=0D
out there so as not to get lost in the fray. I wasn't expecting=0D
this subject to come up quite so soon but it's never too soon=0D
to get started. An event of this size takes some major planning.=0D
=0D
Now back to the garage to get my KR ready for Red Oak!!!=0D
=0D
Larry Flesner=0D
flesner@midwest.net=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D
To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D
=0D
To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D
For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D
=0D
See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D
or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D
=0D
=2E=20
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Larry,
 
Your suggestion for 2004 sounds real good.
 

DanRH@KR-Builder.org

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Daniel R= =2E Heath - Lexington, SC

See our KR2 at: ht= tp://kr-builder.org  Click on the Pic.

See our EAA Chapte= r 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG

KR Purchasing Info at= : http://fly-kr.= com 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Wednesday, D= ecember 18, 2002 06:40:34 AM
Subject: KR> 20= 04 Gathering
 
Netters,

I've attended every Gathering since 1990= (attendance record, maybe?)
and have enjoyed each and every one. Each= year Jeanette Rand
suggests I host the Gathering in Southern Illinois= so she can combine
the trip to visit family. She grew up and graduat= ed high school
just eight miles from where I live. She and Ken started= their college
days at Southern Illinois University.

There are= two great airports
near where I live but they are both tower controle= d. A third airport
just fourty miles north of here would make an ideal= gathering site.
Mt. Vernon Illinois airport has intersecting runways,= plenty of hangar
space, a large ramp area, an FBO, a shop with an A &= amp; P/ IA,
currently has a resturant/bar in the terminal, plenty of = hotel rooms
and resturants in the area, etc. It is located at the inte= rsection of
I-64 (E/W) and I-57 (N/S) interstate highways and is just = 75 miles
east of St. Louis for those flying in commercial. The airport=
manager and local EAA chapter (active), I'm sure, would lend theirsupport as well as the local Chamber of Comm and the local
tourism o= ffice. I have not approached them on this directly yet
but suggestions= in the past drew a very positive response.
The location would be pret= ty much central for everyone East
of the Rockies. You can go to <www.airnav.com> and check
it ou= t. Airport identifier is MVN . At the bottom of that
page is info abou= t the city, etc.

This is not an "offical" proposal yet but I wante= d to throw it
out there so as not to get lost in the fray. I wasn't ex= pecting
this subject to come up quite so soon but it's never too soon<= BR>to get started. An event of this size takes some major planning.
Now back to the garage to get my KR ready for Red Oak!!!

Larry F= lesner
flesner@midwest.net<= BR>


----------------------------------------------------------= -----------
To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"

To UNsubs= cribe, e-mail: krne= t-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
For additional commands, e-mail: <= A href=3D"mailto:krnet-help@mailinglists.org">krnet-help@mailinglists.org=

See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word = files

.
______________________= ______________________________
<= A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=3D309&lang=3D9">= 3D""  IncrediMail - Email has= finally evolved - = Click Here
--------------Boundary-00=_ORPC0L32QL8000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_NRPC5BZ2QL8000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:21:03 -0500 To: "KR Mailing Lists" From: "John & Elaine Roffey" Subject: 2004 Gathering Message-ID: <007701c2a705$48844be0$66ea5aa6@default> ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C2A6DB.5E90ED00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Being from the northern section of the Midwest (MI), I am very much in = favor of the Gatherings centered in the middle of the country. Anywhere within the range of the C182 that I fly is fine with me. I do = appreciate the circumstances of the BUILDERS who attend to share in the = enthusiasm of those who fly their completed KRs in to the Gatherings. It would seem to be fair to all netters that the Gatherings should = ALWAYS be within an hour or so rental car drive of an airport served by = the major airlines. Southern Illinois is just such a place. I think that Wicks might even = be approached to be a partial sponsor as this is in their back yard and = most of us are good customers of theirs. With Larry Flesner, Larry Capps, Steven Eberhart and Jim Faughn all = within an hours flight, I think the 2004 Gathering could be a landmark = event in a southern ILL. location. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C2A6DB.5E90ED00-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:31:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering Message-Id: <3E0159B8.000025.01004@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_O0QCQ7B2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_P0QCLHG2QL8000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_P0QCLHG2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Did Lake Barkley have a host? It would be great to have several hosts wi= th great sites to choose from. Then it would be easier to move it each year= to another great location. If we were not so far East, I would find a great airport around here and host it one year. I just we need to keep it somewhat centrally located, but will be willing to help in any way I can, remotely.=0D =0D Covington and Columbia Tennessee were very good locations with great host= s.=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC=0D =0D See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D =0D KR Purchasing Info at: http://fly-kr.com =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 04:19:49 AM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering=0D =0D It was proposed two years ago at Lake Barkley and only had two votes. =0D =0D =0D Mark Jones (N886MJ)=0D Wales, WI USA =0D E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=0D Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html=0D =0D =0D ----- Original Message ----- =0D From: Dan Heath =0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org =0D Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:47 AM=0D Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering=0D =0D =0D Mark,=0D =0D Host it in Wisconsin. I would love to go home for a week.=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC=0D =0D See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D =0D KR Purchasing Info at: http://fly-kr.com =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 08:47:07 PM=0D To: KR-Net=0D Subject: KR> 2004 KR Gathering=0D =0D In 1998 I attended my first KR Gathering and vowed never to miss another = one regardless of where it is. I did miss the Gathering this past September = due to having a new born daughter only six weeks old at the time and my wife told me if I went to the gathering, I would return to find a large pile o= f firewood which was once a KR airplane. I opted to stay home. Anyway, with the modern modes of travel we have these days, the extremely low airfares and your desire to attend a gathering, there is no reason for you not to. There is plenty of time to plan. I have already scheduled a full week for this year's Gathering. For those of you in areas other than the central a= nd Midwest USA, you do have a voice in where the Gathering is to be held. Ju= st saying, let's have it in Denver, Phoenix or Las Vegas, etc...simply will = not get it there. You must be willing to host the Gathering and make a good presentation of the proposed site. Including all airport facilities and accommodations. Local area attractions for the family. Lodging which is available in the area....etc. The area must be inviting.....and preferabl= y not a dry county. There are those who like a good cold one when telling aviation stories. There is a lot of time from now to September to make yo= ur sales pitch to all of us here on the KR Net as to where the Gathering sho= uld be. You do not have to be at the Gathering to convince us you have the be= st place for the next Gathering, just have someone else make the presentatio= n for you at the Gathering and then the votes will decide. Just another thought here....Do up a web page of your proposed site with photos and information. That would surely be a great selling tool.=0D =0D Mark Jones (N886MJ)=0D Wales, WI USA =0D E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=0D Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D ____________________________________________________=0D IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here --------------Boundary-00=_P0QCLHG2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Did Lake Barkley have a host?  It would be great to have s= everal hosts with great sites to choose from.  Then it would be easi= er to move it each year to another great location.  If we were not s= o far East, I would find a great airport around here and host it one year= =2E  I just we need to keep it somewhat centrally located, but will = be willing to help in any way I can, remotely.
 
Covington and Columbia Tennessee were very good locations with great= hosts.
 

DanRH@KR-Builder.org

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Daniel R= =2E Heath - Lexington, SC

See our KR2 at: ht= tp://kr-builder.org  Click on the Pic.

See our EAA Chapte= r 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG

KR Purchasing Info at= : http://fly-kr.= com 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Wednesday, D= ecember 18, 2002 04:19:49 AM
Subject: Re: KR>= ; 2004 KR Gathering
 
It was proposed two years ago at Lake Barkley and only h= ad two votes.


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI USA
E-mail= me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com
Visi= t my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepa= ge.html


----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Heath <= BR>To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: KR> = 2004 KR Gathering


Mark,

Host it in Wisconsin. I would l= ove to go home for a week.

DanRH@KR-Builder.org

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Danie= l R. Heath - Lexington, SC

See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.

See our EAA= Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG<= /A>

KR Purchasing Info at:
http://fl= y-kr.com

-------Original Message-------

From: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Date: Tuesd= ay, December 17, 2002 08:47:07 PM
To: KR-Net
Subject: KR> 2004 K= R Gathering

In 1998 I attended my first KR Gathering and vowed nev= er to miss another one, regardless of where it is. I did miss the Gatheri= ng this past September due to having a new born daughter only six weeks o= ld at the time and my wife told me if I went to the gathering, I would re= turn to find a large pile of firewood which was once a KR airplane. I opt= ed to stay home. Anyway, with the modern modes of travel we have these da= ys, the extremely low airfares and your desire to attend a gathering, the= re is no reason for you not to. There is plenty of time to plan. I have a= lready scheduled a full week for this year's Gathering. For those of you = in areas other than the central and Midwest USA, you do have a voice in w= here the Gathering is to be held. Just saying, let's have it in Denver, P= hoenix or Las Vegas, etc...simply will not get it there. You must be will= ing to host the Gathering and make a good presentation of the proposed si= te. Including all airport facilities and accommodations. Local area attra= ctions for the family. Lodging which is available in the area....etc. The= area must be inviting.....and preferably not a dry county. There are tho= se who like a good cold one when telling aviation stories. There is a lot= of time from now to September to make your sales pitch to all of us here= on the KR Net as to where the Gathering should be. You do not have to be= at the Gathering to convince us you have the best place for the next Gat= hering, just have someone else make the presentation for you at the Gathe= ring and then the votes will decide. Just another thought here....Do up a= web page of your proposed site with photos and information. That would s= urely be a great selling tool.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI US= A
E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n= 886mj/homepage.html






______________________= ______________________________
IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved= - Click Here
______________________= ______________________________
<= A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=3D309&lang=3D9">= 3D""  IncrediMail - Email has= finally evolved - = Click Here
--------------Boundary-00=_P0QCLHG2QL8000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_O0QCQ7B2QL8000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:33:44 -0600 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering Message-ID: <005901c2a707$0f18fa20$0d541f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2A6D4.C4448E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lake Barkley was hosted by Dana Overall and I must say he did a fine = job!!!! I am sure he now has sleepless and restless nights since he = converted over to the RV world. He and his KR project are missed = greatly. Dana...are you still hovering out there??? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Heath=20 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 11:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering Did Lake Barkley have a host? It would be great to have several = hosts with great sites to choose from. Then it would be easier to move = it each year to another great location. If we were not so far East, I = would find a great airport around here and host it one year. I just we = need to keep it somewhat centrally located, but will be willing to help = in any way I can, remotely. Covington and Columbia Tennessee were very good locations with = great hosts. =20 DanRH@KR-Builder.org See ya in Red Oak --- 2003, Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic. See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG KR Purchasing Info at: http://fly-kr.com =20 -------Original Message------- From: KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 04:19:49 AM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering It was proposed two years ago at Lake Barkley and only had two = votes.=20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at=20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Heath=20 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:47 AM Subject: Re: KR> 2004 KR Gathering Mark, Host it in Wisconsin. I would love to go home for a week. DanRH@KR-Builder.org See ya in Red Oak --- 2003, Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic. See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG KR Purchasing Info at: http://fly-kr.com=20 -------Original Message------- From: KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 08:47:07 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> 2004 KR Gathering In 1998 I attended my first KR Gathering and vowed never to miss = another one, regardless of where it is. I did miss the Gathering this = past September due to having a new born daughter only six weeks old at = the time and my wife told me if I went to the gathering, I would return = to find a large pile of firewood which was once a KR airplane. I opted = to stay home. Anyway, with the modern modes of travel we have these = days, the extremely low airfares and your desire to attend a gathering, = there is no reason for you not to. There is plenty of time to plan. I = have already scheduled a full week for this year's Gathering. For those = of you in areas other than the central and Midwest USA, you do have a = voice in where the Gathering is to be held. Just saying, let's have it = in Denver, Phoenix or Las Vegas, etc...simply will not get it there. You = must be willing to host the Gathering and make a good presentation of = the proposed site. Including all airport facilities and accommodations. = Local area attractions for the family. Lodging which is available in the = area....etc. The area must be inviting.....and preferably not a dry = county. There are those who like a good cold one when telling aviation = stories. There is a lot of time from now to September to make your sales = pitch to all of us here on the KR Net as to where the Gathering should = be. You do not have to be at the Gathering to convince us you have the = best place for the next Gathering, just have someone else make the = presentation for you at the Gathering and then the votes will decide. = Just another thought here....Do up a web page of your proposed site with = photos and information. That would surely be a great selling tool. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at=20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2A6D4.C4448E60-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************