From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 30 Jan 2003 22:34:49 -0000 Issue 618 Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:35 PM krnet Digest 30 Jan 2003 22:34:49 -0000 Issue 618 Topics (messages 14764 through 14793): KR-1 14764 by: Traveler 14765 by: Mark Jones 14770 by: Dan Heath 14778 by: Bill Higdon 14781 by: virgnvs.juno.com 14782 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: Epoxy on wood? 14766 by: virgnvs.juno.com Yes I am still around 14767 by: Ron Lee Re: Is there an easy way to take the wings off? 14768 by: Flymaca711689.aol.com 14772 by: Margiandrick.aol.com 14773 by: Sutstoy.aol.com 14789 by: Margiandrick.aol.com Re: KR's, Materials and Lee Robbins 14769 by: Edwin Blocher Project status 14771 by: JIM VANCE a challenge 14774 by: harold woods 14775 by: gleone What plywood? 14776 by: larry flesner 14777 by: Phil Maley 14779 by: ronald j willliams 14780 by: larry flesner 14783 by: jim . synergy design 14784 by: Traveler Bubba Size 14785 by: Ron Freiberger Re: chipped horizontal stabilizer. 14786 by: Sky Rider 14788 by: Dan Heath Re: The KR way of doing things seems to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process. 14787 by: Dan Heath 14792 by: Scott Cable Changing incidence on RAF48 14790 by: Carlton 14791 by: Dan Heath KR-2 Aileron plans 14793 by: MilFritz.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:33:11 -0800 To: From: "Traveler" Subject: KR-1 Message-ID: <001f01c2c810$526507e0$035cea18@Alien1> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2C7CD.42224340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters, I would appreciate some input on my KR project. I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place = "sporty" KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or narrowed = KR-2? I already have plans and wood for the KR-2S. Thanks, Thomas Dalby Boulder City, NV ptpalm@lvcm.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2C7CD.42224340-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:51:18 -0600 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-ID: <010301c2c812$d87359c0$cc561f41@wi.rr.com> I would go with the KR-2S. Keeping it stock width would make for one very nice single seater. Just imagine the type of cockpit you could design. You could even have arm rest on both sides. Oh yea, there is one KR-2S I know of which is a single seater and has an air conditioner in it. Ever heard of a crotch rocket motorcycle? A single seat 2S could be a crotch rocket airplane!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Traveler" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:33 PM Subject: KR> KR-1 Netters, I would appreciate some input on my KR project. I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place "sporty" KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or narrowed KR-2? I already have plans and wood for the KR-2S. Thanks, Thomas Dalby Boulder City, NV ptpalm@lvcm.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:34:55 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-Id: <3E3929FF.000007.01212@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_7E4JWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would go with the plans for the 2S and size it to fit. Narrowing the fuselage a little, and maybe the firewall too, and you will make it a bit lighter and faster. You should have a very nice airplane. Several peopl= e have built single seat KR2 and KR1 1/2.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 07:33:27 PM=0D To: krnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: KR> KR-1=0D =0D Netters,=0D =0D I would appreciate some input on my KR project.=0D =0D I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place "sporty= " KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or narrowed KR-2? I already have plans and wood for the KR-2S.=0D =0D Thanks,=0D =0D Thomas Dalby=0D Boulder City, NV=0D ptpalm@lvcm.com --------------Boundary-00=_7E4JWCW0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:06:32 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Bill Higdon Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-ID: <3E393F78.5030404@attbi.com> Travler, I knew a guy who started a buba sized KR-1 (KR-2 narrowed down to fit him, afterwards he decided he should have just built the KR-2. That's my 2 cents worth. Bill Higdon Traveler wrote: > Netters, > > I would appreciate some input on my KR project. > > I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place "sporty" KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or narrowed KR-2? I already have plans and wood for the KR-2S. > > Thanks, > > Thomas Dalby > Boulder City, NV > ptpalm@lvcm.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:59:08 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-ID: <20030130.110510.-562009.1.virgnvs@juno.com> On the narrowed K R 2, you can just keep the firewall dimensoins straight back, no bulge and narrower fus, Virg On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:34:55 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) "Dan Heath" writes: > I would go with the plans for the 2S and size it to fit. Narrowing > the > fuselage a little, and maybe the firewall too, and you will make it > a bit > lighter and faster. You should have a very nice airplane. Several > people > have built single seat KR2 and KR1 1/2. > > N64KR > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > See you in Red Oak - 2003 > > See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > -------Original Message------- > > From: KRnet@mailinglists.org > Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 07:33:27 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> KR-1 > > Netters, > > I would appreciate some input on my KR project. > > I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place > "sporty" > KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or narrowed > KR-2? I > already have plans and wood for the KR-2S. > > Thanks, > > Thomas Dalby > Boulder City, NV > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:48:01 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 Message-ID: <20030130.110510.-562009.0.virgnvs@juno.com> K R 1 1/2, narrowed K R 2, Virg On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:33:11 -0800 "Traveler" writes: > Netters, > > I would appreciate some input on my KR project. > > I am "bubba" size 5' 11" 250lbs. and want to build a single place > "sporty" KR. Would I be better off building an enlarged KR-1 or > narrowed KR-2? I already have plans and wood for the KR-2S. > > Thanks, > > Thomas Dalby > Boulder City, NV > ptpalm@lvcm.com Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:20:17 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy on wood? Message-ID: <20030129.225411.-305653.0.virgnvs@juno.com> DOOR SKIN ??? Virg On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:18:57 -0600 "Mark Jones" writes: > Justin > Ronevogt@aol.com wrote: > Im almost doen with the second fuselage side but i have jigged up > > the first side and it looks nice. I used homedepot exter plywood > on the > > outside.... >> > > > You did what??? The plywood you get at Home Depot is far inferior > to > AIRCRAFT GRADE PLYWOOD. What about the weight? Is it 3/32? What type > wood is > it? I know some of you guys like to save money and cut corners but > remember...your life depends on how you build your plane. > Justin...you need > to re-think this decision.... > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:11:10 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ron Lee Subject: Yes I am still around Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129210048.00a14010@127.0.0.1> Hi folks, I just finished reading the Dec 2002 series of messages on the 2004 gathering. Similar issues and comments every year. I sold the Marsh KR-2S last year and bought a RV-6A. Since the RV may have somewhat similar control forces as a KR, I am planning on attending the 2003 gathering in Red Oak to give rides. Obviously not to sway anyone on a RV versus KR...rather to help provide stick time in a responsive aircraft (versus C-172). Since Red Oak is a mere 445 nm from Falcon CO (00V), that would be an easy day trip once we have more daylight. Looks like a nice place to visit before September. As I understand it, Steve Eberhart is building a -7A so if you read this, email me (ronlee@pcisys.net). Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:22:24 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Is there an easy way to take the wings off? Message-ID: <95.294b88bf.2b6a0280@aol.com> --part1_95.294b88bf.2b6a0280_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for what its worth get some foam or blankets so that you don't damage the wings i damage my wing once not using the foam if you take all the top bolts out it will slam right in to the ground this happen to me letting my help let go to rest. installing make sure you put all the bolts in be fore tighing the person on the wing tip has to under stand what to do my girls got it down pat after fighting each other to get lined up first couple of times get one top in on the main spar and same for rear spar than you can rest to get the other bolts in mac n1055a --part1_95.294b88bf.2b6a0280_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:35:10 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Margiandrick@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Is there an easy way to take the wings off? Message-ID: <198.14ce4d32.2b6a840e@aol.com> --part1_198.14ce4d32.2b6a840e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keep in mind a fellow in Georgia has a plan for folding wings.I can dig out the info if you are interested Rick Armstrong --part1_198.14ce4d32.2b6a840e_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:43:31 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Sutstoy@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Is there an easy way to take the wings off? Message-ID: --part1_a.2c1b344b.2b6a8603_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, I am interested in the folding wings. Hate airport parking fees. Aloha Joe :>}) --part1_a.2c1b344b.2b6a8603_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:06:48 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Margiandrick@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Is there an easy way to take the wings off? Message-ID: <44.2d06d41c.2b6afbf8@aol.com> --part1_44.2d06d41c.2b6afbf8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Contact RW Moore rwmoore@alltel.net Address PO Box 622 Toccoa, Ga. 30577 Good Luck Rick --part1_44.2d06d41c.2b6afbf8_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:28:57 -0600 To: From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> KR's, Materials and Lee Robbins Message-ID: <013e01c2c818$1b331ca0$0201a8c0@computer> The last order of Poly-urethane foam I got from AS&S had green 2" thick and pink 1" thick. Home Depot has pink Owens-Corning "Formular" foam in a couple of thicknesses and is what I am going to use on the rest of my KR. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sky Rider" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:21 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR's, Materials and Lee Robbins > > Thanks for the tip...I tried Home Depot, and they had a red variety, but not the green I was accustomed to...and I wasn;t sure if it was impervious to gasoline or epoxy as I have been told the green is....what do you find at the uphonstery shops....is it cloth for the fibreglassing? If so, what is it called? > thanks for your assistance. > Aloha nui loa > Tony > Sutstoy@aol.com wrote:Tony, > The dreaded Home Depot or an upholstery shop is where I would go for foam. > > Aloha > Joe :>}) > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:31:48 -0600 To: "kr net" From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: Project status Message-ID: <009101c2c853$40da8a20$0600a8c0@VANCE> ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C2C820.E28B8BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's brag time!! My wings and fuselage are done up through primer, the = engine runs, the wiring is done. I have just put the final coat of = varnish on the cowling mold, so I could have a finished cowling in a = week or two. I might have it flying by summer--won't have the local hours flown off = in time for the September bash, but should have air under the wheels. =20 I'm beginning to realize that building an airplane is like raising a = family: by the time you get completely done, you have figured out how = to do it right! Keep sanding and sanding and sa... Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C2C820.E28B8BE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:35:28 -0500 To: From: "harold woods" Subject: a challenge Message-ID: <003101c2c86c$d5e25bc0$03000004@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2C842.ECC00880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I presume that Jason has skinned his fuselage with Home Depot plywood. = The real question is exactly what forces will be exerted on this = structure when it is in flight.The next question is will this structure = survive these forces? Let the engineers in the net answer the first with accurate numbers. It = would be interesting if each published their numbers independently and = with out consultation with each other.Next they should suggest how to = set up the fuselage and how to apply loads to it so as to meet the = numbers which they say must be met.If the fuselage survives then an = added safety factor should be added and tested. If the fuselage survives = then Jason showld use it. If it fails then he and all others should be = thankful for the test. All the verbage that is going back and forth is counterproductive to our = interests.I throw out the challenge,Exactly what forces must we expect = to act on major parts of our plane's structure at different speeds and = weights.=20 Then if anyone wants to use uncertified materials , all they have to do = is produce one and load it to the known (expected) loads and it will = pass or fail. Let the engineers start a discussion for all to see on what they expect = these forces to be. Harold Woods Orillia,ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2C842.ECC00880-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:23 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: gleone Subject: Re: KR> a challenge Message-ID: <3E392CEB.78892389@tritel.net> --------------2097E2D882839F0FEF0F4AF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You make an excellent point. The other thing being whether or not the plywood will delaminate. None the less, if he want's to use it AND he's shown it won't delaminate AND he SEALS IT THOROUGHLY (hint, hint!), then it's up to the builder. Take a parachute, though, just in case you decide to start raining airplane debris and body parts all over the countryside. But seriously, if the wood survives testing and he wants to use it and the inspector signs off on it, then pioneer away. My two cents worth. I'll put on my flame retardent undies now. Gene in Worland, Wyoming harold woods wrote: > I presume that Jason has skinned his fuselage with Home Depot plywood. The real question is exactly what forces will be exerted on this structure when it is in flight.The next question is will this structure survive these forces? > Let the engineers in the net answer the first with accurate numbers. It would be interesting if each published their numbers independently and with out consultation with each other.Next they should suggest how to set up the fuselage and how to apply loads to it so as to meet the numbers which they say must be met.If the fuselage survives then an added safety factor should be added and tested. If the fuselage survives then Jason showld use it. If it fails then he and all others should be thankful for the test. > All the verbage that is going back and forth is counterproductive to our interests.I throw out the challenge,Exactly what forces must we expect to act on major parts of our plane's structure at different speeds and weights. > Then if anyone wants to use uncertified materials , all they have to do is produce one and load it to the known (expected) loads and it will pass or fail. > Let the engineers start a discussion for all to see on what they expect these forces to be. > Harold Woods > Orillia,ON. > Canada. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 --------------2097E2D882839F0FEF0F4AF0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:44:00 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: What plywood? Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030130084400.00809200@pop.midwest.net> In my many years on the KRnet I don't recall a subject that has created more discussion than this one. Several post seemed to indicate that Ken Rand was "engineering down" the KR to make it more affordable by using "non-standard" aircraft materials. The way I see it he was "engineering up" by using a material not yet proven in aircraft construction. He was not taking an aluminum fuselage and proving you could build it with beer cans. To my knowledge he used and specified in his plans the use of aircraft quality wood for the basic structure and then moved the design to a new level with the use of glass/resin skins. He proved he was right and the homebuilt movement went in a whole new direction. For those builders wanting to use different woods there is more than enough info out there for the selection and use of "non-standard" woods in aircraft. Personally I'm not sure the the time and money spent to do so would be worth it other than to prove a point. It can be done safely as proven many times by many builders so go for it if you want. The KR is a cheap, light, affordable airplane. Any efforts to make it cheaper will probably only make it heavier, less safe, and most likely, less of a performer. If you plan to make changes let's follow Ken's example and start with what's already proven and try to move the design to a higher level. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:01:57 +0800 To: From: "Phil Maley" Subject: RE: KR> What plywood? Message-ID: Hi all You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not use ply skins on the flying surfaces? Phil Maley Perth, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:11:28 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: ronald j willliams Subject: Re: KR> What plywood? Message-ID: <3E39409F.E34EE334@bellsouth.net> Why not use fiberglass on the fuselage skins as Ron Scott did on "Old-Ironsides" its held up for years. Its just an idea. Jim W Phil Maley wrote: > Hi all > > You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass > skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and > not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not > use ply skins on the flying surfaces? > > Phil Maley > Perth, Australia > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:14:19 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> What plywood? Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030130091419.00813180@pop.midwest.net> >You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass >skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and >not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not >use ply skins on the flying surfaces? >Phil Maley +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Ply and fiberglass have much different characteristics in tension and compression. The possibilities you mention above have all been tried but they must be engineered properly. Many designs used ply for wing skins before and after foam/glass came along. several have used glass fuselage skins. The KR way of doing things seems to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process. Just my two cents worth. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:49:03 -0800 To: , From: "jim @ synergy design" Subject: Re: KR> What plywood? Message-ID: <002601c2c887$e2b8d7a0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Phil, I believe Steve Bennet used ply skins on a plane he built. I think the Falco also uses ply(check this). Jim Sporka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Maley" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:01 AM Subject: RE: KR> What plywood? > Hi all > > You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass > skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and > not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not > use ply skins on the flying surfaces? > > Phil Maley > Perth, Australia > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:34:37 -0800 To: From: "Traveler" Subject: Re: KR> What plywood? Message-ID: <001801c2c87d$7b2f4d80$035cea18@Alien1> > In my many years on the KRnet I don't recall a subject that has created > more discussion > than this one. Larry Flesner makes a couple good points in his post. There is an interesting article in the March Custom Planes on alternative woods (not plywood, however) by Ron Caraway whose little Cosman racer won the Copperstate dash this year. Having been around wood for building fine guitars for many years, I feel there is nothing wrong with alternative woods if you know how to select and test them using one or two methods that are outlined in EAA's collection of older Experimenter articles on wood construction. For my KR project I have a total of about $200 invested in old stand close grain Douglas Fir, and some extremely fine verticly grained and stiff White Pine, but they have to test as good or better than some of the good aircraft spruce I have on hand. I resawed and planed the wood to dimension and used discarded pieces for jigging blocks, so there was little waste. HOWEVER, a great deal of time was spent digging through wood at Home Depot, Lowes, and other yards to find suitable pieces. If you you have any doubt at all in your ability to select and test wood, its always best to use certified and/or proven materials IMHO. Thomas Dalby Boulder City, NV ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" Subject: KR> What plywood? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:48:16 -0500 To: "KRNET" , From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: Bubba Size Message-ID: I have just what you need. I'm 5' 10" and 250, and 68 years old. I find my get up and go has get up and went, so I'm gonna be selling my project. My 'boat' was built by an even bigger guy, and has a 5 inch extension forward, and two locations for rudder pedals. The pedals are set up with brakes on both sides, and a single center stick. Flying solo, you can sit in the middle and put your feet on the outside pedals for real comfort. My selling problem is that I overspent, and have an Ellison Carb, a good set of radios, transponder, altitude encoder, new strobe lights, and audio panel. I'll probably have to part it out to make it affordable, but I can do that. There are three ALUMINUM fuel tanks, and I think there's all the materials to finish the aircraft, using POLY FIBER products. The engine is a new Great Plains 1835. I'm gonna try to get stuff organized before Sun-N-Fun, so we can have a sale. Pictures are available at ; http://home.earthlink.net/~ronmartha/images/ Sorry they're kind of random, but you'll get the idea. Ron Freiberger mailto:rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:13:47 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Sky Rider Subject: Re: KR> chipped horizontal stabilizer. Message-ID: <20030130211347.58977.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> --0-833124480-1043961227=:58465 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Correst...my mistake...the crack , or more accurately, break, goes entirely through the foam on the aft portion of the elevator on the port side...and there are small 'pits' in the surface where it may have been chipped slightly by things falling on it or in some other manner before it came into my possession...the break is about 10 inoches in length, and runs from the trailing edge, about a foot in from the port side angling forward to the port edge of the foam...it is still attached, but barely...none of the spruce is affected. Sky harold woods wrote:Sky Rider You did not tell us where along it's span was the elevator damaged. To what extent. You must realize that this governs the fix. Harold Woods. Orillia, ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-833124480-1043961227=:58465-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:06:46 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> chipped horizontal stabilizer. Message-Id: <3E39CC26.000008.01212@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_AF0KRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom what you describe, I think you could sand it down to get the layer= of glass around the break as thin as possible without going through it. The= n lay up a new layer of glass over the sanded area. Use finish cloth and p= eel ply if you have it. Fair it in with super fill and smooth prime and you should be good to go with a little paint.=0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:14:01 PM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: Re: KR> chipped horizontal stabilizer.=0D =0D Correst...my mistake...the crack , or more accurately, break, goes entire= ly through the foam on the aft portion of the elevator on the port side...an= d there are small 'pits' in the surface where it may have been chipped slightly by things falling on it or in some other manner before it came i= nto my possession...the break is about 10 inoches in length, and runs from th= e trailing edge, about a foot in from the port side angling forward to the port edge of the foam...it is still attached, but barely...none of the spruce is affected.=0D =0D Sky=0D harold woods wrote:Sky Rider=0D You did not tell us where along it's span was the elevator damaged. To wh= at extent. You must realize that this governs the fix.=0D Harold Woods.=0D Orillia, ON.=0D Canada.=0D =0D =0D ---=0D Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.=0D Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).=0D Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03=0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------=0D Do you Yahoo!?=0D Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --------------Boundary-00=_AF0KRN00000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:59:31 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: The KR way of doing things seems to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process. Message-Id: <3E39CA73.000006.01212@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_730K12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are right, and it is easy to repair, compared to plywood.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 07:22:34 AM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: RE: KR> What plywood?=0D =0D >You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass=0D >skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and=0D >not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not=0D >use ply skins on the flying surfaces?=0D >Phil Maley=0D +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=3D=0D =0D Ply and fiberglass have much different characteristics in tension and =0D compression. The possibilities you mention above have all been=0D tried but they must be engineered properly. Many designs used ply=0D for wing skins before and after foam/glass came along. several =0D have used glass fuselage skins. The KR way of doing things seems=0D to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process.=0D Just my two cents worth.=0D =0D Larry Flesner=0D =0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_730K12S0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> RE: The KR way of doing things seems to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process. Message-ID: <20030130222841.27576.qmail@web40804.mail.yahoo.com> --0-2134220496-1043965721=:27123 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dan, Before I purchased my KR project I bought the plans for the Barracuda. The Barracuda is a very high performance all wood aircraft, with fully retractable tricycle gear, flaps and a 250mph Vne. Why did I choose the KR? I didn't want to spend the mega $$$$$'s for a IO-540 and constant speed Hartzell prop. When I got my KR, included with it was a set of RR pre-molded wing skins - Which are absolutely georgeous. Personally, if I were going to substitute any material on the KR for fuselage sides, I would probably use Carbon Fiber in place of the mahogany plywood. After I finish my KR-2S, I plan on building a Corvair powered KR1, sorta like the Dr. Dean approach with radiused lower corners and stretch it like a 2S. I'd build a one piece Hersey bar style wing with one piece fwd and aft spars Use the AS5046 airfoil. Tail dragger or maybe while I'm dreaming, even fully outbd retracting main gear? Carbon fiber fuselage.... Where am I going to come up with the $$ to build a test article for the CF fuse? There's a whole bunch of additional issues too with that also like lightening strike protection. So I'll end up building my KR1S fuselage out of mahogany plywood and pout about it! Bottom line: It's in the subject line!!!!!! Dan Heath wrote:You are right, and it is easy to repair, compared to plywood. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From: KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 07:22:34 AM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: RE: KR> What plywood? >You've all got me thinking now. If wood framing (spars) and fibreglass >skin is right for the wings and empennage then why do we use ply and >not fibreglass for the fuselage skin. And if ply is better, why not >use ply skins on the flying surfaces? >Phil Maley +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Ply and fiberglass have much different characteristics in tension and compression. The possibilities you mention above have all been tried but they must be engineered properly. Many designs used ply for wing skins before and after foam/glass came along. several have used glass fuselage skins. The KR way of doing things seems to me to be the easiest way of going about the building process. Just my two cents worth. Larry Flesner --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files . Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Livonia, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-2134220496-1043965721=:27123-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:34:18 -0000 To: From: "Carlton" Subject: Changing incidence on RAF48 Message-ID: <006001c2c7f7$767f50e0$5a56ef9b@telkomsa.net> Greetings KRnetters, I'm busy rebuilding a KR1 that was originally fitted with an laminar airfoil (44" cord) for which I do not have any specifications. I'm planning on returning to the original RAF48 but will need to lift the airfoil 1" at the rear spar for it to fit over both spars. Unfortunately I cann't lower the rear spar as it already rests on the lower longeron If I go this route the wing will only have an incidence of 1.5degrees. Questions: - How will this affect take-off and landings? - What must the washout be set at? - How many degrees must the tail incidence be set at? PS. The main spare has been installed 1" lower, to install per the plans I'll need to break the main spar from the boat and move it up 1". I'm reluctant to do this as the spar is well glued in and damage to the boat is inevitable. Any other ideas? Thnks Carlton Blandford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:19:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Changing incidence on RAF48 Message-Id: <3E39CF20.00000A.01212@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_G01KH890000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please someone correct me if I am wrong on this, but I thought that the front and rear spars rested on the lower longeron with the RAF48 airfoil.= =20 Maybe the rear spar isn't deep enough. I don't know what it is supposed = to be on a 1, but I can check my plans on the 2 if you like.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 02:07:53 PM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: KR> Changing incidence on RAF48=0D =0D Greetings KRnetters,=0D I'm busy rebuilding a KR1 that was originally fitted with an laminar airf= oil=0D (44" cord) for which I do not have any specifications. I'm planning on=0D returning to the original RAF48 but will need to lift the airfoil 1" at t= he=0D rear spar for it to fit over both spars. Unfortunately I cann't lower the= =0D rear spar as it already rests on the lower longeron=0D If I go this route the wing will only have an incidence of 1.5degrees.=0D Questions:=0D - How will this affect take-off and landings?=0D - What must the washout be set at?=0D - How many degrees must the tail incidence be set at?=0D =0D PS. The main spare has been installed 1" lower, to install per the plans=0D I'll need to break the main spar from the boat and move it up 1". I'm=0D reluctant to do this as the spar is well glued in and damage to the boat = is=0D inevitable.=0D =0D Any other ideas?=0D =0D Thnks=0D Carlton Blandford=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_G01KH890000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:34:45 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: MilFritz@aol.com Subject: KR-2 Aileron plans Message-ID: <129.21a22e72.2b6b0285@aol.com> --part1_129.21a22e72.2b6b0285_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sirs; Can anyone supply me with copies of aileron plans. I have Dan Diehl wing skins --part1_129.21a22e72.2b6b0285_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************