From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 12 Mar 2003 15:47:12 -0000 Issue 656 Date: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:47 AM krnet Digest 12 Mar 2003 15:47:12 -0000 Issue 656 Topics (messages 15749 through 15777): Mark Jones- photo of the week 15749 by: Oscar Zuniga 15755 by: Mark Jones Re: aileron hinges 15750 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: from VP list 15751 by: Fran Giroux 15752 by: Robert Stone 15757 by: Fran Giroux Re: TRANSPONDER FOR SALE 15753 by: David Hartz Alum. fuel tanks 15754 by: Joseph H Horton 15756 by: Robert Stone 15759 by: Dana Overall 15760 by: Edwin Blocher 15774 by: Bobby Muse 15775 by: Ed Janssen Re: aileron hinges and Would this work for a KR or does everyone still hand that ugly one out the wing? 15758 by: Dan Heath fuel tanks 15761 by: Edwin Blocher Ideas to assist short strip landings 15762 by: Peter & Sandra Holmes 15764 by: Frank Ross 15765 by: Ross Youngblood 15767 by: Frank Dungan 15770 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15773 by: Jim Sellars Re: open cockpit? 15763 by: Gary Sprunger Flutter 15766 by: Eduardo José Jankosz 15768 by: Robert Stone 15769 by: Philip Maley Off Subject but neat 15771 by: Justin 15776 by: Bill Higdon 15777 by: Bill Higdon Day Trip to the Airplane Factory 15772 by: Dan Heath Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:40:26 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Mark Jones- photo of the week Message-ID: Mark wrote- >I have updated the Photo of the WEEK on my webpage. And a nice one it is, too (two, actually). So- two questions: (1) did you let the micro dry before you laid the glass over it, or after squeegeeing the micro onto foam did you then lay the wetted-out glass on wet? I've never had much fun laying glass over dried micro and much prefer to layer everything on wet. And- (2) how'dja get the peel ply to follow that compound leading edge curve? I can make it follow the wing-to-fuselage fillet, but not when it comes to the leading edge and has to stretch. Trying to wrap it without scissoring in some V's always leads to bunching, wrinkling, or worse... And if I may throw in an unrelated PS here: Mark Jones (and Langford, too) are two that ALWAYS snip the unrelated stuff from a post they reply to. The majority of the folks who reply to a post on the KRNet just tack their reply onto the post, which usually means a long tail of garbage. I'll excuse Virg for doing this since his replies are usually so terse that they rarely consume an entire line of text, but everybody else- please take a minute to snip the junk out of the post you're replying to and just leave enough to give the reader an idea of what you're replying to. (I don't really expect to see this happen, but I'm in a great mood today so I thought I'd wish for the world as long as I'm posting here). Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:41:51 -0600 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Mark Jones- photo of the week Message-ID: <00b601c2e76f$639b3f60$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" > Mark wrote-I have updated the Photo of the WEEK on my webpage. > And a nice one it is, too (two, actually). So- two questions: (1) did you > let the micro dry before you laid the glass over it, or after squeegeeing > the micro onto foam did you then lay the wetted-out glass on wet? I first squeeged a thick slurry of Aeropoxy and Micro on the area to be glassed. While the micro was still wet, I applied dry fiberglass cloth to the micro slurry area. Next I brushed on Aeropoxy to finish wetting out the fiberglass cloth then squeeged the excess Aeropoxy away before applying Peel Ply. (2) how'dja get the peel ply to follow that compound leading edge curve? Peel Ply does not form well to compound curves. As a matter of fact, it won't form to them at all. What I do in a compound curve is to cut several strips of Peel Ply anout 3/4" wide and lay them in the compound curve. Works every tome and leaves a very nice finish. >And if I may throw in an unrelated PS here: Mark Jones (and Langford, too) > are two that ALWAYS snip the unrelated stuff from a post they reply to. Yes, the only way to reply is to snip and cut the trash. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:23:11 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges Message-ID: <177.172aa53d.2b9e4e2f@aol.com> --part1_177.172aa53d.2b9e4e2f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2003 10:18:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmw116@socal.rr.com writes: > that ugly one out the wing The ugly one has a longer arm then one that is on the back of the aileron. Thus a smaller weight can be used. I am sure that you can fully balance an aileron with the weight all in the aileron D Section. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_177.172aa53d.2b9e4e2f_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:59:10 -0500 To: From: "Fran Giroux" Subject: Re: KR> from VP list Message-ID: <003501c2e747$e637b520$1002a8c0@franshp> Chuck, Did you notice what the major problem was for the American team's plane. The left wing looked like it had a negative angle of incident and before they could get the canard to lift the nose wheel the left wing would warp and buckle down to prevent it. Of course part of their problem was that the wing cables were loose, which they fixed before the last run. It's a good thing the FAA guy didn't stick around for the test flights. If he did he would have been negligent if he didn't pull the airworthiness certificate of the American plane or at least tell them what their problem was. It was a great show and apparently it reran at 11:00 PM and will run again on Wednesday for those who missed it. Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Ross" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:30 AM Subject: KR> from VP list > Thought some of you might enjoy this post from the VP > list regarding last night's "Junkyard Wars" TV show. > It reminded me of my first attempt to draw a full-size > template of the VP-1 wing rib. I was worried about > small imperfections until I got to looking at the > wing's top surface on the 152 I was re-fueling one > day. That wing had more ripples, dips and waves than > the Gulf of Mexico. It was no different than any other > factory-built metal plane you see flying around all > over the place. > I'm not promoting sloppy building, just pointing out > that many of the home-builts (especially KRs) are in > many ways far more refined than anything cranked out > of the airplane factories. Does it have something to > do with a love of sanding? > Frank Ross in San Antonio, Texas, USA > Site of this years "Miss America" contest > > This might not have anything specific to do with VP's > but should give a boost > of confidence to those of us building them. > Did anyone else happen to see 'Junkyard Wars' on TV > last night? Three teams > of four people each built an airplane in 20 hours > time. > The Brits built a copy of an old biplane of wood with > only a single landing > wheel like some gliders. > The French team built a copy of (forgot the type) a > French plane from the > 30's, also wood. It had a narrow, high cambered wing > with only one surface > and was a taildragger. > The American team built a metal canard type which was > built, but not > documented, in 1911. They worked from a picture only > and it was a pusher. > Each team was given a new engine which looked like a > 2-stroker. > The American team had quite a problem with cg, and > once in the air it was a > devil to control. They did finally fly for over 2 > minutes but missed the > finish line completely since the canard was completely > in the way of > visibility. Not bad for an undocumented design of 92 > years ago. > The French got off and flew only about 6 feet off the > ground, touching down > once but landing with the tailskid on the finish line. > They might have done > better on takeoff if the skid wasn't so high, higher > than the VP1. They also > might have done better if the pilot wasn't so timid. > The Brits-- a bunch of showoffs. On the first > practice flight, the pilot > took off, made a fairly steep climb, and flew a > perfectly controlled turn > around the desert at about 200' agl, and then made a > perfectly soft landing > on the one wheel. The 2nd practice flight he did the > same and almost had to > be forced to land it. On the final test run, without > flight instruments, (he > lost them on the second run), he made a high, straight > run and stopped with > his front wheels on the finish line without brakes. > > Before flight each plane was inspected by the FAA (or > PFA?) and given an > airworthyness certificate. > ...20 hours, 3 teams of builders making a design they > had not seen before > starting, an airworthyness cert. and a successful > flight. I'm suddenly not > so worried about perfection. I'll try for it, but > won't worry. > Chuck > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:00:09 -0600 To: From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> from VP list Message-ID: <000801c2e750$6e203680$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Fran Giroux, I am one of the ones who missed it, as a matter of fact, didn't even know it was on. Please tell me what time and cable channel because I would like to watch it Wednesday night. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Giroux" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: KR> from VP list > Chuck, > > Did you notice what the major problem was for the American team's plane. > The left wing looked like it had a negative angle of incident and before > they could get the canard to lift the nose wheel the left wing would warp > and buckle down to prevent it. Of course part of their problem was that the > wing cables were loose, which they fixed before the last run. It's a good > thing the FAA guy didn't stick around for the test flights. If he did he > would have been negligent if he didn't pull the airworthiness certificate of > the American plane or at least tell them what their problem was. > > It was a great show and apparently it reran at 11:00 PM and will run again > on Wednesday for those who missed it. > > Fran > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Ross" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:30 AM > Subject: KR> from VP list > > > > Thought some of you might enjoy this post from the VP > > list regarding last night's "Junkyard Wars" TV show. > > It reminded me of my first attempt to draw a full-size > > template of the VP-1 wing rib. I was worried about > > small imperfections until I got to looking at the > > wing's top surface on the 152 I was re-fueling one > > day. That wing had more ripples, dips and waves than > > the Gulf of Mexico. It was no different than any other > > factory-built metal plane you see flying around all > > over the place. > > I'm not promoting sloppy building, just pointing out > > that many of the home-builts (especially KRs) are in > > many ways far more refined than anything cranked out > > of the airplane factories. Does it have something to > > do with a love of sanding? > > Frank Ross in San Antonio, Texas, USA > > Site of this years "Miss America" contest > > > > This might not have anything specific to do with VP's > > but should give a boost > > of confidence to those of us building them. > > Did anyone else happen to see 'Junkyard Wars' on TV > > last night? Three teams > > of four people each built an airplane in 20 hours > > time. > > The Brits built a copy of an old biplane of wood with > > only a single landing > > wheel like some gliders. > > The French team built a copy of (forgot the type) a > > French plane from the > > 30's, also wood. It had a narrow, high cambered wing > > with only one surface > > and was a taildragger. > > The American team built a metal canard type which was > > built, but not > > documented, in 1911. They worked from a picture only > > and it was a pusher. > > Each team was given a new engine which looked like a > > 2-stroker. > > The American team had quite a problem with cg, and > > once in the air it was a > > devil to control. They did finally fly for over 2 > > minutes but missed the > > finish line completely since the canard was completely > > in the way of > > visibility. Not bad for an undocumented design of 92 > > years ago. > > The French got off and flew only about 6 feet off the > > ground, touching down > > once but landing with the tailskid on the finish line. > > They might have done > > better on takeoff if the skid wasn't so high, higher > > than the VP1. They also > > might have done better if the pilot wasn't so timid. > > The Brits-- a bunch of showoffs. On the first > > practice flight, the pilot > > took off, made a fairly steep climb, and flew a > > perfectly controlled turn > > around the desert at about 200' agl, and then made a > > perfectly soft landing > > on the one wheel. The 2nd practice flight he did the > > same and almost had to > > be forced to land it. On the final test run, without > > flight instruments, (he > > lost them on the second run), he made a high, straight > > run and stopped with > > his front wheels on the finish line without brakes. > > > > Before flight each plane was inspected by the FAA (or > > PFA?) and given an > > airworthyness certificate. > > ...20 hours, 3 teams of builders making a design they > > had not seen before > > starting, an airworthyness cert. and a successful > > flight. I'm suddenly not > > so worried about perfection. I'll try for it, but > > won't worry. > > Chuck > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:30:23 -0500 To: From: "Fran Giroux" Subject: Re: KR> from VP list Message-ID: <000701c2e786$f05a9f60$1002a8c0@franshp> Bob, The Super Junkyard Wars show on aircraft building is on TLC (The Learning Channel) on Wednesday evening I think at 8 PM. Check your local listings. Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Stone" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:00 PM Subject: Re: KR> from VP list > Fran Giroux, > I am one of the ones who missed it, as a matter of fact, didn't even > know it was on. Please tell me what time and cable channel because I would > like to watch it Wednesday night. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fran Giroux" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: KR> from VP list > > > > Chuck, > > > > Did you notice what the major problem was for the American team's > plane. > > The left wing looked like it had a negative angle of incident and before > > they could get the canard to lift the nose wheel the left wing would warp > > and buckle down to prevent it. Of course part of their problem was that > the > > wing cables were loose, which they fixed before the last run. It's a good > > thing the FAA guy didn't stick around for the test flights. If he did he > > would have been negligent if he didn't pull the airworthiness certificate > of > > the American plane or at least tell them what their problem was. > > > > It was a great show and apparently it reran at 11:00 PM and will run again > > on Wednesday for those who missed it. > > > > Fran > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Ross" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:30 AM > > Subject: KR> from VP list > > > > > > > Thought some of you might enjoy this post from the VP > > > list regarding last night's "Junkyard Wars" TV show. > > > It reminded me of my first attempt to draw a full-size > > > template of the VP-1 wing rib. I was worried about > > > small imperfections until I got to looking at the > > > wing's top surface on the 152 I was re-fueling one > > > day. That wing had more ripples, dips and waves than > > > the Gulf of Mexico. It was no different than any other > > > factory-built metal plane you see flying around all > > > over the place. > > > I'm not promoting sloppy building, just pointing out > > > that many of the home-builts (especially KRs) are in > > > many ways far more refined than anything cranked out > > > of the airplane factories. Does it have something to > > > do with a love of sanding? > > > Frank Ross in San Antonio, Texas, USA > > > Site of this years "Miss America" contest > > > > > > This might not have anything specific to do with VP's > > > but should give a boost > > > of confidence to those of us building them. > > > Did anyone else happen to see 'Junkyard Wars' on TV > > > last night? Three teams > > > of four people each built an airplane in 20 hours > > > time. > > > The Brits built a copy of an old biplane of wood with > > > only a single landing > > > wheel like some gliders. > > > The French team built a copy of (forgot the type) a > > > French plane from the > > > 30's, also wood. It had a narrow, high cambered wing > > > with only one surface > > > and was a taildragger. > > > The American team built a metal canard type which was > > > built, but not > > > documented, in 1911. They worked from a picture only > > > and it was a pusher. > > > Each team was given a new engine which looked like a > > > 2-stroker. > > > The American team had quite a problem with cg, and > > > once in the air it was a > > > devil to control. They did finally fly for over 2 > > > minutes but missed the > > > finish line completely since the canard was completely > > > in the way of > > > visibility. Not bad for an undocumented design of 92 > > > years ago. > > > The French got off and flew only about 6 feet off the > > > ground, touching down > > > once but landing with the tailskid on the finish line. > > > They might have done > > > better on takeoff if the skid wasn't so high, higher > > > than the VP1. They also > > > might have done better if the pilot wasn't so timid. > > > The Brits-- a bunch of showoffs. On the first > > > practice flight, the pilot > > > took off, made a fairly steep climb, and flew a > > > perfectly controlled turn > > > around the desert at about 200' agl, and then made a > > > perfectly soft landing > > > on the one wheel. The 2nd practice flight he did the > > > same and almost had to > > > be forced to land it. On the final test run, without > > > flight instruments, (he > > > lost them on the second run), he made a high, straight > > > run and stopped with > > > his front wheels on the finish line without brakes. > > > > > > Before flight each plane was inspected by the FAA (or > > > PFA?) and given an > > > airworthyness certificate. > > > ...20 hours, 3 teams of builders making a design they > > > had not seen before > > > starting, an airworthyness cert. and a successful > > > flight. I'm suddenly not > > > so worried about perfection. I'll try for it, but > > > won't worry. > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:25:11 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: David Hartz Subject: Re: KR> TRANSPONDER FOR SALE Message-ID: <20030310232511.47118.qmail@web41315.mail.yahoo.com> HEY FRAN I LOOKS LIHE ITS ALREADY GONE .IF ANYTHING CHANGES I'LL LET YOU KNOW. DAVE --- Fran Giroux wrote: > I am interested in the transponder. Please call me > at 518-793-7663 or email > me at hydrogen.boost@verizon.net > > Fran > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Hartz" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:04 AM > Subject: KR> TRANSPONDER FOR SALE > > > > > > > > I HAVE A NARCO 50 TRANSPONDER W/ENCODER COMPLETE > WITH > > ANT. AND HARNESS I AM NOT GOING TO USE ON MY KR2 > NOW > > AND IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I'LL LET IT GO FOR > $500. . > > IT WAS TESTED AND TAGGED NOVEMBER,2001 .IT'S READY > TO > > GO!YES IT'S MODE C. > > DAVE HARTZ 707-684-0294 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:53:16 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Joseph H Horton Subject: Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: <20030310.195318.-224697.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Guys, While searching for something to read in a waiting room I came across an add in a boating magazine for alum. fuel tanks. They were advertising any size, any shape, from your drawings or their's. If anyone is interested I'll stop back and get the company's information.-- Joe Horton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:14:43 -0600 To: From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: <000b01c2e77c$62074600$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Joe, Be sure to put that company address out on the Net, I know a lot of builders who have had trouble with tanks made from composite materials leaking so there will be builders that are interested. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph H Horton" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:53 PM Subject: KR> Alum. fuel tanks > Guys, > While searching for something to read in a waiting room I came across an > add in a boating magazine for alum. fuel tanks. They were advertising any > size, any shape, from your drawings or their's. If anyone is interested > I'll stop back and get the company's information.-- Joe Horton > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:49:53 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: From: "Joseph H Horton" I came across an > > add in a boating magazine for alum. fuel tanks. They were advertising >any > > size, any shape, from your drawings or their's. The first thing you want to find out is the thickness of the alum being used. I'm willing to bet a tank made for boating will be me made of much thicker material, due to the wave beating a boat takes, than needed for your KR. As a reference, my leading edge tanks are made from .032 (I'll look it up a little later to make sure) with stiffeners riveted length to length and ribs for and aft. This allows you to use much thinner material and ribs act as baffles. If I can make it to the gathering this year, I am going to see if I can sch. an alum tank seminar. I really think, given the material I could assemble (note, I don't build:-) a tank in a couple hours. After April, 15th. I'll go so far as do this: If someone wants an alum tank, you do the measuring on your airplane, buy the material I ask you to buy (it will be cheap) and I'll bend the material, drill it, proseal it, rivet it and document the tech. for the online newsletter. You pay for the materials and shipping and I'll build it for you. I'll keep track of the material list. If someone with drafting knowledge (speaking CAD here) will draw it up, we'll have something out there if someone wants to use it. My fush. will not be here until June and my wings are almost done, I need to work on alum!! Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:50:09 -0600 To: From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: <00da01c2e7f6$a996d240$0201a8c0@computer> Dana, If no one else has jumped on this I'll take you up on it. I can bring full size drawing to Sun N Fun. I'll be there Sat. and Sun. ed Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:49 AM Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks > From: "Joseph H Horton" > > I came across an > > > add in a boating magazine for alum. fuel tanks. They were advertising > >any > > > size, any shape, from your drawings or their's. > > The first thing you want to find out is the thickness of the alum being > used. I'm willing to bet a tank made for boating will be me made of much > thicker material, due to the wave beating a boat takes, than needed for your > KR. As a reference, my leading edge tanks are made from .032 (I'll look it > up a little later to make sure) with stiffeners riveted length to length and > ribs for and aft. This allows you to use much thinner material and ribs act > as baffles. > > If I I could assemble > (note, I don't build:-) a tank in a couple hours. > > After April, 15th. I'll go so far as do this: If someone wants an alum > tank, I need to > work on alum!! > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:24:49 -0600 To: From: "Bobby Muse" Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: <004901c2e89a$dcaf7890$2b053fd1@computer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Stone" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 09:14 PM Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks > Be sure to put that company address out on the Net, I know a lot of > builders who have had trouble with tanks made from composite materials > leaking so there will be builders that are interested. > I don't know why anyone would have trouble with a tank made from composite materials. My header tank is almost ten years old, holds 18.5 gallons and it has never had a fuel leak. You mean that you have never heard of an aluminum tank that developed a leak? The secret to building a composite fuel tank that should not leak is: (1) Use materials that are not affected by the type of fuel that you will be using. (2) Build your lay-up in two stages. Basically, Build the complete tank less the last two layers of fiberglass, allow it to dry completely and then properly apply the last layers, shifting the weave of each layer of cloth 45 degrees(depending on the materials that you are using). By building the tank using a two stage process, you allow the last two layers of fiberglass to fill any little pinholes. Also, I sanded the inside of the tank and using a squeeze, I squeezed epoxy resin on to the interior surfaces of the tank before I bonded the tank to the top. At least, this is what worked for me. Bobby Muse N122B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:40:28 -0600 To: From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks Message-ID: <01ac01c2e89c$f21686e0$0200a8c0@dad> Bobby, What was the total number of layers for your tank? Weight of fiberglass? Epoxy used - Vinylester? Thanks. Ed Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Muse" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:24 AM Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Stone" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 09:14 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Alum. fuel tanks > > > > Be sure to put that company address out on the Net, I know a lot of > > builders who have had trouble with tanks made from composite materials > > leaking so there will be builders that are interested. > > > > I don't know why anyone would have trouble with a tank made from composite > materials. My header tank is almost ten years old, holds 18.5 gallons and > it has never had a fuel leak. You mean that you have never heard of an > aluminum tank that developed a leak? > > The secret to building a composite fuel tank that should not leak is: (1) > Use materials that are not affected by the type of fuel that you will be > using. (2) Build your lay-up in two stages. > > Basically, Build the complete tank less the last two layers of fiberglass, > allow it to dry completely and then properly apply the last layers, shifting > the weave of each layer of cloth 45 degrees(depending on the materials that > you are using). By building the tank using a two stage process, you allow > the last two layers of fiberglass to fill any little pinholes. Also, I > sanded the inside of the tank and using a squeeze, I squeezed epoxy resin on > to the interior surfaces of the tank before I bonded the tank to the top. > > At least, this is what worked for me. > > Bobby Muse > N122B > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:04:02 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges and Would this work for a KR or does everyone still hand that ugly one out the wing? Message-Id: <3E6DECD2.000026.01184@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_QE8LLHG2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On aileron hinges. The plans that I had when I built my first KR showed piano hinges, not the extruded type. So I figured that if that would wor= k, surely 4 short, 4" extruded hinges would work. So that is what I did and never noticed any problems. The only thing was, that I did not have a ga= p seal.=0D =0D On the balance. Sure, you can balance ailerons with a very short arm. J= ust add a lot more weight. The shorter the arm, the heavier the weight.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_QE8LLHG2QL8000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:01:29 -0600 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: fuel tanks Message-ID: <001001c2e7f8$3e7ed3c0$0201a8c0@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2E7C5.F345B2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ask Jeeves or search Google for Marine aluminum fuel tanks. Or::Atlantic Coast Welding, Inc (800-434-TANK) will make any size any = shape. Tested and built to U.S.C.G Spec. Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2E7C5.F345B2C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:05:46 +1300 To: From: "Peter & Sandra Holmes" Subject: Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-ID: <005401c2e80c$a43a7020$512037d2@ga7vkml> I would appreciate any advice re air brakes ,flaps etc.that may be fitted to my KR2 tail-dragger to assist in landing as I operate off a one-way, 700m long grass-strip with some slope.Ground effect makes landings fairly difficult as I also have power lines and trees near the threshold. Need to make final approach at max airspeed 55/60kts to get in especially as there is often a tail wind. Flying time is restricted due to the above and I suspect a reduction in ground effect would reduce the lengthy landing and roll. Thanks for advice..... Peter Holmes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:29:42 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-ID: <20030311212942.80222.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com> First, I am NOT offering this as a well-informed expert. I am ASKING why not use spoilers? Seems like, on landing once you are in ground effect they would be the ideal way to stop the float and shorten the landing. Of course, you have to remember to pull them in if you decide to go around. Would they cause too harsh a drop or a stall in ground effect? Frank Ross in soggy San Antonio, TX __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:34:46 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org, KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-Id: There are two approaches I would consider for "real short" field landings in a KR. 1) A belly board. I have seen these that are basicly boards with holes in them. This would greatly increase drag on the final rollout, but I fear it might also cause some balooning... but I'm not sure as I haven't heard how they perform. 2) SPOILERS! I think this would be the best way to kill lift in ground effect. Spoilers are used on sailplanes, and kill lift. The problem with spoilers is you get a steeper descent angle without a pitch change. I'm thinking on a KR you might want BIG flaps to get a big camber change on the wing, and good nose down attitude for approach, then deploy the spoilers to pop down and kill ground effect at touchdown time, like the big airliners do. The spoilers detailed in Tony Bengelis books are a good start, but if you do some web searches, the spoilers on Mooneys are real cool. They are electricly activated and two little "flags" with holes in them pop up when you press the button. These are short spanwise, but seem to work reasonably well on Mooneys. I think however that a good spoiler for the KR would be somthing with about a 12" spanwise length. I haven't flown my KR. I'm just basing this on my experience with Spoilers on a Schweizer 2-33 glider, and 1-26, and also the spoilers on a Mooney 231 on approach. The Mooney spoilers I don't think would have as much impact in ground effect as the spoilers on a 2-33. I would incorporate the spoiler deployment into brake application to simplify flying a taildragger on the ground. (That is my idea of an ideal situation... don't have a clue at this point how to implement it, unless of course you use a break light switch from a car and pop the spoilers electricly when you apply the brakes... you might want a squat switch too, to insure that the spoilers don't deploy on approach during a slip if you jam your feet on the brakes accidently on approach.... complexity?) -- Ross BTW... I may actually do some work on my KR this week... it could happen. 3/10/2003 3:05:46 PM, "Peter & Sandra Holmes" wrote: >I would appreciate any advice re air brakes ,flaps etc.that may be fitted to >my KR2 tail-dragger to assist in landing as I operate off a one-way, 700m >long grass-strip with some slope.Ground effect makes landings fairly >difficult as I also have power lines and trees near the threshold. Need to >make final approach at max airspeed 55/60kts to get in especially as there >is often a tail wind. Flying time is restricted due to the above and I >suspect a reduction in ground effect would reduce the lengthy landing and >roll. Thanks for advice..... Peter Holmes > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > Ross Youngblood http://N541RY.com mailto:rossy65@attbi.com (Home) mailto:ross_youngblood@credence.com (Work) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:00:26 -0600 To: From: "Frank Dungan" Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-Id: Good comments... The big birds deploy spoilers after one rotation of the main gear (ie at = touch down). fd There are two approaches I would consider for "real short" field landings in a KR. 1) A belly board. I have seen these that are basicly boards with holes in them. This would greatly increase drag on the final rollout, but I fear it might also cause some balooning... but I'm not sure as I haven't heard how they perform. 2) SPOILERS! I think this would be the best way to kill lift in ground effect. Spoilers are used on sailplanes, and kill lift. The problem with spoilers is you get a steeper descent angle without a pitch change. I'm thinking on a KR you might want BIG flaps to get a big camber change on the wing, and good nose down attitude for approach, then deploy the spoilers to pop down and kill ground effect at touchdown time, like the big airliners do. The spoilers detailed in Tony Bengelis books are a good start, but if you do some web searches, the spoilers on Mooneys are real cool. They are electricly activated and two little "flags" with holes in them pop up when you press the button. These are short spanwise, but seem to work reasonably well on Mooneys. I think however that a good spoiler for the KR would be somthing with about a 12" spanwise length. =20 I haven't flown my KR. I'm just basing this on my experience with = Spoilers on a Schweizer 2-33 glider, and 1-26, and also the spoilers on a = Mooney 231 on approach. The Mooney spoilers I don't think would have as much = impact in ground effect as the spoilers on a 2-33. I would incorporate the = spoiler deployment into brake application to simplify flying a taildragger on = the ground. (That is my idea of an ideal situation... don't have a clue at this = point how to implement it, unless of course you use a break light switch from a = car and pop the spoilers electricly when you apply the brakes... you might = want a squat switch too, to insure that the spoilers don't deploy on = approach during a slip if you jam your feet on the brakes accidently on approach.... = complexity?) -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:53:08 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-ID: <176.16f6c685.2b9fdef4@aol.com> --part1_176.16f6c685.2b9fdef4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2003 3:28:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, pipercub@xtra.co.nz writes: > ,flaps etc In the earlier years of flying my KR, before I installed flaps, My landings were never consistant. The main reason for this was that the view over the nose was poor at best. To see better, I would lower the nose, and that would increase my speed, and then I would pull the nose up again when I got close to the runway and the floating would start. Adding flaps allowed me to roll the nose over without picking up speed. My approaches were better controlled and my landing distances were shortened. The main reason for the improvement was better visibility over the nose. Speed brakes will also slow the plane and may rotate the nose. but, they can't increase lift and would be of no help in a shortfield takeoff. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_176.16f6c685.2b9fdef4_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:19:37 -0400 To: From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Message-ID: <003101c2e89a$509ae010$0100a8c0@LAPTOP> Guys: What about a good low approach, followed by a slip into ground effect right tight at the button of the field? Your sage advice please. Best regards JIM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Dungan" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 7:00 PM Subject: Re: KR> Ideas to assist short strip landings Good comments... The big birds deploy spoilers after one rotation of the main gear (ie at touch down). fd There are two approaches I would consider for "real short" field landings in a KR. 1) A belly board. I have seen these that are basicly boards with holes in them. This would greatly increase drag on the final rollout, but I fear it might also cause some balooning... but I'm not sure as I haven't heard how they perform. 2) SPOILERS! I think this would be the best way to kill lift in ground effect. Spoilers are used on sailplanes, and kill lift. The problem with spoilers is you get a steeper descent angle without a pitch change. I'm thinking on a KR you might want BIG flaps to get a big camber change on the wing, and good nose down attitude for approach, then deploy the spoilers to pop down and kill ground effect at touchdown time, like the big airliners do. The spoilers detailed in Tony Bengelis books are a good start, but if you do some web searches, the spoilers on Mooneys are real cool. They are electricly activated and two little "flags" with holes in them pop up when you press the button. These are short spanwise, but seem to work reasonably well on Mooneys. I think however that a good spoiler for the KR would be somthing with about a 12" spanwise length. I haven't flown my KR. I'm just basing this on my experience with Spoilers on a Schweizer 2-33 glider, and 1-26, and also the spoilers on a Mooney 231 on approach. The Mooney spoilers I don't think would have as much impact in ground effect as the spoilers on a 2-33. I would incorporate the spoiler deployment into brake application to simplify flying a taildragger on the ground. (That is my idea of an ideal situation... don't have a clue at this point how to implement it, unless of course you use a break light switch from a car and pop the spoilers electricly when you apply the brakes... you might want a squat switch too, to insure that the spoilers don't deploy on approach during a slip if you jam your feet on the brakes accidently on approach.... complexity?) -- Ross --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:29:00 -0700 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Gary Sprunger" Subject: re: open cockpit? Message-ID: Recently one of us asked about flying the KR2 open cockpit. This ad is in Barnstormers.com KR-1 FOR SALE • AVAILABLE FOR SALE!! Single seat KR-1 for sale - 1700ccVW engine 1 hour since new. TTAF 15 hrs. open cockpit - fixed fibreglass landing gear - VFR - $5900 - heel brakes - rich/lean mixture control and more. Email pictures on request Contact Ray Lake located Appleton, WI USA. Telephone: 920-734-0547. -- Posted 9 March 2003 From: G_Sprunger@msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:39:06 -0300 To: "krnet" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_Jos=E9_Jankosz?=" Subject: Flutter Message-Id: <200303112240.h2BMepQj057370@cwbone.bsi.com.br> Hi, Netters! One day I remember, somebody asked for information about Flutter! Below there is a link for this! Regards! Eduardo José Jankosz jankosz@bsi.com.br http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2-brasil Curitiba - PR - BRASIL ---------- De: Antonio Carlos Muller Para: Eduardo José Jankosz Assunto: Aircraft Designs, Inc Index..htm Data: Sábado, 8 de Março de 2003 12:52 Aircraft Designs, Inc: Index. Design & Engineering| Stallion | FREE Software | Books & Software | Classes | Gyroplanes | Experience | Hollmann | Web Links Home | Conceptual Aircraft Designs | Stress Analysis | Flutter Analysis | Vibration & Fatigue Analysis | Manufacturing | News | Contact FLUTTER ANALYSIS Flutter can be a problem with any aircraft and we prefer to predict and modify the critical flutter speed of an aircraft before an incident occurs. We can accurately predict flutter speed with the ALGOR finite element analysis program and our SAF flutter computer program which run on Windows 95/98/2000. http://www.algor.com A flutter analysis is performed by setting up a very detailed finite element analysis (fea) model of the structure to find the eigenvalues and mode shapes. The control surface weights and control stiffness of the fea model are matched to those of the actual aircraft. The eigenvalues are checked by ground vibration testing (gvt). ADI works closely with Richard Craig who specializes in gvt and sells the equipment for vibration and acoustic measurements. The mode shapes from the fea are input into our Subsonic Aerodynamic Flutter (SAF) program to determine the critical flutter speeds. Balanced control surfaces, altitude and fuel load are some of the parameters that influence flutter speeds. We have made flutter analysis affordable. Be safe and fly safe. We do not want to perform a post crash flutter analysis on your aircraft, like we have on the Wheeler Express, BD-10, and Adventurer. This is the animated fuselage bending mode of the original BD10 Jet which crashed. The fuselage bending occurs at a frequency of 27.3 Hz and couples with horizontal tail twisting. The flutter analysis predicted the exact critical flutter speed. ADI increased the critical flutter speed by rigidly fixing the horizontal tail and stiffening the tail and fuselage structures. On Feb. 21, 2003, BD10 Serial #002 came apart in the air over San Clemente, CA killing the pilot. An acquaintance of the accident pilot claims that no fix was made to the tail since he could move the tail up and down by 3/8 inch. Flutter is most likely the cause of this accident which could have been avoided if the machined rib on the bottom, left had been installed to provide a stiff support for the horizontal stabilizer against the fuselage boom. A number of other BD10's are still flying and the modification is there for their benefit. A closure machined rib as shown on the left was required to reinforce the horizontal stabilizer to increase the critical flutter speed of the BD10. The Peregrin (BD10) had crashed killing the CEO of the company because of a tail flutter problem. This fix prevented that from happening on the second Peregrin. However, a 1/8 in diameter flap shear pin failed at 35 lbs shear force causing a split flap which killed my good friend Joe Henderson, the second CEO of Peregrin. This pin had been installed by Jim Bede. This is the finite element model for the Lancair 360 with the large tail. The back of the fuselage required stiffening to increase the critical flutter speed. Some builder have opted not to make this very simple modification. There is an old saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink!" Extensive finite element analysis and structural sizing was performed by ADI on the Lancair series of aircraft. As such they are one of the safest and best kit aircraft on the market today. © 2001 Aircraft Designs, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:55:37 -0600 To: From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Flutter Message-ID: <000c01c2e829$b9e6a980$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Hay Eduardo, Those two web sites may be informative to those of us who speak Spanish but most of us do not. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo José Jankosz" To: "krnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: KR> Flutter > Hi, Netters! > > One day I remember, somebody asked for information about Flutter! > Below there is a link for this! > > Regards! > > Eduardo José Jankosz > jankosz@bsi.com.br > http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb > http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2-brasil > Curitiba - PR - BRASIL > > ---------- > De: Antonio Carlos Muller > Para: Eduardo José Jankosz > Assunto: Aircraft Designs, Inc Index..htm > Data: Sábado, 8 de Março de 2003 12:52 > > Aircraft Designs, Inc: Index. > > > Design & Engineering| Stallion | FREE Software | Books & Software | > Classes | Gyroplanes | Experience | Hollmann | Web Links > > Home | Conceptual Aircraft Designs | Stress Analysis | Flutter > Analysis | Vibration & Fatigue Analysis | Manufacturing | News | Contact > > > FLUTTER ANALYSIS > Flutter can be a problem with any aircraft and we prefer to predict > and modify the critical flutter speed of an aircraft before an incident > occurs. We can accurately predict flutter speed with the ALGOR finite > element analysis program and our SAF flutter computer program which run on > Windows 95/98/2000. http://www.algor.com > > > A flutter analysis is performed by setting up a very detailed finite > element analysis (fea) model of the structure to find the eigenvalues and > mode shapes. The control surface weights and control stiffness of the fea > model are matched to those of the actual aircraft. > > The eigenvalues are checked by ground vibration testing (gvt). ADI > works closely with Richard Craig who specializes in gvt and sells the > equipment for vibration and acoustic measurements. > > > The mode shapes from the fea are input into our Subsonic Aerodynamic > Flutter (SAF) program to determine the critical flutter speeds. Balanced > control surfaces, altitude and fuel load are some of the parameters that > influence flutter speeds. We have made flutter analysis affordable. Be safe > and fly safe. We do not want to perform a post crash flutter analysis on > your aircraft, like we have on the Wheeler Express, BD-10, and Adventurer. > > > > > This is the animated fuselage bending mode of the original BD10 Jet > which crashed. The fuselage bending occurs at a frequency of 27.3 Hz and > couples with horizontal tail twisting. The flutter analysis predicted the > exact critical flutter speed. ADI increased the critical flutter speed by > rigidly fixing the horizontal tail and stiffening the tail and fuselage > structures. > On Feb. 21, 2003, BD10 Serial #002 came apart in the air over San > Clemente, CA killing the pilot. An acquaintance of the accident pilot > claims that no fix was made to the tail since he could move the tail up and > down by 3/8 inch. Flutter is most likely the cause of this accident which > could have been avoided if the machined rib on the bottom, left had been > installed to provide a stiff support for the horizontal stabilizer against > the fuselage boom. A number of other BD10's are still flying and the > modification is there for their benefit. > > A closure machined rib as shown on the left was required to reinforce > the horizontal stabilizer to increase the critical flutter speed of the > BD10. The Peregrin (BD10) had crashed killing the CEO of the company > because of a tail flutter problem. This fix prevented that from happening > on the second Peregrin. However, a 1/8 in diameter flap shear pin failed at > 35 lbs shear force causing a split flap which killed my good friend Joe > Henderson, the second CEO of Peregrin. This pin had been installed by Jim > Bede. > > This is the finite element model for the Lancair 360 with the large > tail. The back of the fuselage required stiffening to increase the critical > flutter speed. Some builder have opted not to make this very simple > modification. There is an old saying, "You can lead a horse to water but > you cannot make him drink!" > Extensive finite element analysis and structural sizing was performed > by ADI on the Lancair series of aircraft. As such they are one of the > safest and best kit aircraft on the market today. > > > © 2001 Aircraft Designs, Inc. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:54:53 +0800 To: From: "Philip Maley" Subject: RE: KR> Flutter Message-ID: Hi all Google found this original web site for me. It has all the english text as well as the diagrams. Phil Maley phil@wotech.com.au Perth Australia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:26:27 -0600 To: From: "Justin" Subject: Off Subject but neat Message-ID: <000c01c2e84f$8c94d620$dcda1818@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2E81D.41CF8590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.alpaero.com/ Notice this airplane has a very Large VS but no HS. It is a 2-place = motor-glider. I happend to see this whiel I was surfing the web and = thougth i'd share it. It kinda looks like a KR with bigegr wings and a = bigger tail. Wood construction. Justin ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2E81D.41CF8590-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:12:46 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Bill Higdon Subject: Re: KR> Off Subject but neat Message-ID: <3E6F4E6E.8030202@attbi.com> he Fkying wing one looks like its design along the lines of another Fencg Sailplane. I can't remember the name right now. Bill HIgdon Justin wrote: > http://www.alpaero.com/ > > Notice this airplane has a very Large VS but no HS. It is a 2-place motor-glider. I happend to see this whiel I was surfing the web and thougth i'd share it. It kinda looks like a KR with bigegr wings and a bigger tail. Wood construction. > > Justin > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:47:00 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Bill Higdon Subject: Re: KR> Off Subject but neat Message-ID: <3E6F5674.1020900@attbi.com> Boy, DO I need another cup of coffe (or 2), it should read, The Flying Wing looks like it's designed along the lines of another French Design. It's the Fauvel's check out this link http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Fauvel/index.html Bill Higdon Bill Higdon wrote: > he Fkying wing one looks like its design along the lines of another > Fencg Sailplane. I can't remember the name right now. > Bill HIgdon > Justin wrote: > >> http://www.alpaero.com/ >> >> Notice this airplane has a very Large VS but no HS. It is a 2-place >> motor-glider. I happend to see this whiel I was surfing the web and >> thougth i'd share it. It kinda looks like a KR with bigegr wings and a >> bigger tail. Wood construction. >> >> Justin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:08:19 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "Krnet@Mailinglists.Org (E-mail)" From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Day Trip to the Airplane Factory Message-Id: <3E6F4D63.00003B.01184@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_V16NOOU3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat Driscoll and Jack Cooper will be making the journey to the airplane factory on Saturday, March 22. It occurred to me that there are others within a few hours of here that may want to join us for a day of KR fish stories and a tour around the factory. =0D =0D Pat and Jack are planning on arriving around 11. We will go to a local bistro for lunch and then spend as much time as available, back in the factory.=0D =0D We are on the West side of Columbia, off I-20. If you are interested, ma= il me off net and I will get you directions. Jerry and I will be glad for y= ou to join us.=0D =0D PS: For those of you who don't know....... The Factory is my shop and th= is is not a business.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_V16NOOU3LVC000000000-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************