From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 18 Mar 2003 16:12:36 -0000 Issue 663 Date: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:13 AM krnet Digest 18 Mar 2003 16:12:36 -0000 Issue 663 Topics (messages 15939 through 15968): Re: Slipping with Flaps 15939 by: Dana Overall 15944 by: cartera 15947 by: WMartensJr.aol.com 15948 by: WMartensJr.aol.com 15951 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 15952 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15956 by: Justin 15957 by: Ron Eason 15958 by: Edwin Blocher 15959 by: Ron Eason 15960 by: Justin 15961 by: Flymaca711689.aol.com 15962 by: Fran Giroux slipping 15940 by: ninecraven.attbi.com Particle board build table 15941 by: Scott Cable Re: Retractable landing gear 15942 by: virgnvs.juno.com 15943 by: virgnvs.juno.com suberus 15945 by: bill kirkland Michigan KR Builders & Possible Fly-in 15946 by: Scott Cable Cracks o elevator hinges 15949 by: Serge Vidal 15950 by: Dan Heath 15953 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15954 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15964 by: Serge Vidal Question 15955 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout New Airfoils 15963 by: Traveler 15968 by: Robert X. Cringely Day Trip 15965 by: Anthony Underwood Off subject 15966 by: NORMAN SEEL Re: Michigan Builders & Possible Great Lakes Fly-In 15967 by: Scott Cable Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:29:42 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: To relate this subject to KRs with flaps, I wouldn't do it. During CFI training, the head honcho had everyone exhibit slow flight with full flaps and then spin it. His thinking was a CFI must be prepared for anything a student would get into. This does not totally relate to the KR flap design but on a Cessna the flap generates more lift on the root section of the wing. A wing is designed to stall at the root first and progress out to the wing tip. In this case the downwind wing stalls at a much faster rate as a whole. Trust me, when it goes over it's quick. BTW, to show how damaging it can be..........we bent a flap brace and could not retract the flaps..........Sorry, you mileage will not vary. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:48:29 -0700 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: cartera Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <3E760A6D.5577EDFF@cuug.ab.ca> Dana, How you doing ol' buddy. Your right on, if you have flaps why would one want to slip. This can cause flap damage as obviously has happened if you are not set up right go around and go around as many times as needed until you get it right. And use the 1.3 rule above stall. Anything over that is just being a hotshot and it will catch you sooner or later, wanna bet? For a slip it is cross control which can induce all kind of strange things that happen very fast. If one knows and you should know the elevation of the landing strip, 1000' at circuit height and 1500' if you going to cross the airport. But, it sounds like inexperience that brings up all these funny ideas. AviationMech, sonova gun I did not know one was not supposed to spin the KR mine is just as old as yours. I would not go up unless I did a spin or two and also does a real nice barrel roll, get in downhill slightly at 135 and over she goes with only a slight drop in the nose. I am rather surprised one that has owned a KR for that long is scared to try out the whole envelope of your KR. My KR is still flying after 20 years and flies over to Victoria, BC from Pitt Meadows every weekend over a 70 mile salt chuck over Georgia Strait on the west coast of BC. Dana Overall wrote: > > To relate this subject to KRs with flaps, I wouldn't do it. During CFI > training, the head honcho had everyone exhibit slow flight with full flaps > and then spin it. His thinking was a CFI must be prepared for anything a > student would get into. This does not totally relate to the KR flap design > but on a Cessna the flap generates more lift on the root section of the > wing. A wing is designed to stall at the root first and progress out to the > wing tip. In this case the downwind wing stalls at a much faster rate as a > whole. Trust me, when it goes over it's quick. > > BTW, to show how damaging it can be..........we bent a flap brace and could > not retract the flaps..........Sorry, you mileage will not vary. > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider fuselage > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:24:40 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: WMartensJr@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <199.174ac052.2ba79718@aol.com> --part1_199.174ac052.2ba79718_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Exactly my point and why I shared. There's obviously good reasons for not slipping with flaps in some aircraft. Walt In a message dated 3/16/2003 11:33:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > Walt; > Imagine if you would have been attempted that manuever on short final, > > about 50 feet off the ground. No bueno! --part1_199.174ac052.2ba79718_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:26:40 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: WMartensJr@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <1a4.1177f12f.2ba79790@aol.com> --part1_1a4.1177f12f.2ba79790_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh I agree with slim need to slip with flaps in a 152. I was just doing some exploration. The 152 can really go stupid slow with light fuel and solo operation. I actually almost never use full flaps anyway. In fact, other than that experiment I can't recall ever needing to use full flaps. Walt In a message dated 3/16/2003 11:59:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmw116@socal.rr.com writes: > In a 150 there is absalutly no need to slip it. If you have all 45 > degrees of flaps out and you still cnat get it down, you have some issues. > I > can get the VSI to peg the 2000mark with full flaps. --part1_1a4.1177f12f.2ba79790_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:24:34 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <20030317.182519.2712.0.klw1953@juno.com> I can tell you this for certain, I slipped a 172 a couple of years ago with full flaps during an approach to landing. I still remember what I experienced----------a noticeable buffeting of the elevator, the stick actually started pulsating in and out. After I stopped the slip everything went back to normal. On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:44:29 EST Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas > were > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory > was that > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and > checked it > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing > unusual > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna > built > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't > necessary. By > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > airplane, > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > RV > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:24:44 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <78.3aeaa4b8.2ba7c14c@aol.com> --part1_78.3aeaa4b8.2ba7c14c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/2003 12:48:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, cartera@cuug.ab.ca writes: > unless I did > a spin or two and also does a real nice barrel roll, I learned spins in the cessna and yes, I have never spun or rolled N110LR. I guess I''m a wings level kind of guy. Perhaps a lilttle Chicken Sh.... as well. Perhaps one day I'll learn a new trick or two, from those like you who have. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_78.3aeaa4b8.2ba7c14c_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:22:56 -0600 To: From: "Justin" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <002201c2ecf5$49ef08e0$dcda1818@computer> The only time I slip a 172 with flaps is when im solo and just cant get it down. I soloed a nice brand new 172 which was a very very clean airplane when light. I could approach for a shortfeild landing and still float down the runway some. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:24 PM Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > I can tell you this for certain, I slipped a 172 a couple of years ago > with full flaps during an approach to landing. I still remember what I > experienced----------a noticeable buffeting of the elevator, the stick > actually started pulsating in and out. After I stopped the slip > everything went back to normal. > > > > > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:44:29 EST Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas > > were > > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory > > was that > > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and > > checked it > > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing > > unusual > > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna > > built > > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't > > necessary. By > > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > > airplane, > > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > > > > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > > > RV > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:48:43 -0600 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <002901c2ecf8$e3a74530$6501a8c0@Administration> I have a 1977 150 and have slipped with full flaps in practice for emergency landings. Works very well. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:44 PM Subject: KR> Slipping with Flaps > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas were > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory was that > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and checked it > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing unusual > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna built > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't necessary. By > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the airplane, > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > RV > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:43:01 -0600 To: From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <004801c2ecf8$18cfa0a0$0201a8c0@computer> Justin, What is your e-mail address? I'd like to contact you off-net. Thanks, ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > The only time I slip a 172 with flaps is when im solo and just cant get it > down. I soloed a nice brand new 172 which was a very very clean airplane > when light. I could approach for a shortfeild landing and still float down > the runway some. > > Justin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > > > > I can tell you this for certain, I slipped a 172 a couple of years ago > > with full flaps during an approach to landing. I still remember what I > > experienced----------a noticeable buffeting of the elevator, the stick > > actually started pulsating in and out. After I stopped the slip > > everything went back to normal. > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:44:29 EST Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > > > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas > > > were > > > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory > > > was that > > > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and > > > checked it > > > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing > > > unusual > > > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna > > > built > > > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't > > > necessary. By > > > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > > > airplane, > > > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > > > > > > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > > > > > RV > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:51:15 -0600 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <002f01c2ecf9$3e8cc560$6501a8c0@Administration> control speed and no problems occur. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "V. P." To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: RE: KR> Slipping with Flaps > Yes... but not C-150 or aircraft specific... > > COULD be an airflow problem... but > > 1-Flaps work by effectively changing the camber of the wing, it causes more > lift but the wing will stall at a lower angle of attack... this changes the > stall characteristics of the entire wing.. not always for the better. By > changing the camber you change the position of the center of lift and > pressure... this could theoretically reduce a given airfoils stall recovery > ability... > > 2-The second problem is.. if a departure does occur the recovery could > result in a high speed nose down attitude that is well above the maximum > flap limit velocity... causing structural failure > > 3-slipping also significantly increases the air loads on the 'upwind' flap > that could exceed design limits... > > VP > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ronevogt@aol.com [mailto:Ronevogt@aol.com] > Sent: March 16, 2003 8:44 PM > To: KRnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> Slipping with Flaps > > > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas were > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory was that > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and checked it > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing unusual > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna built > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't necessary. By > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > airplane, > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > RV > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:52:35 -0600 To: From: "Justin" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <001401c2ecf9$6dd25d30$dcda1818@computer> jmw116@socal.rr.com Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin Blocher" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > Justin, > What is your e-mail address? I'd like to contact you off-net. > Thanks, ED > Ed Blocher > Santa Rosa Beach, FL > eblocher@earthlink.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 8:22 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > > > > The only time I slip a 172 with flaps is when im solo and just cant get it > > down. I soloed a nice brand new 172 which was a very very clean airplane > > when light. I could approach for a shortfeild landing and still float down > > the runway some. > > > > Justin > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:24 PM > > Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > > > > > > > I can tell you this for certain, I slipped a 172 a couple of years ago > > > with full flaps during an approach to landing. I still remember what I > > > experienced----------a noticeable buffeting of the elevator, the stick > > > actually started pulsating in and out. After I stopped the slip > > > everything went back to normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:44:29 EST Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > > > > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas > > > > were > > > > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory > > > > was that > > > > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and > > > > checked it > > > > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing > > > > unusual > > > > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna > > > > built > > > > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't > > > > necessary. By > > > > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > > > > airplane, > > > > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > > > > > > > > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > > > > > > > RV > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > > Only $9.95 per month! > > > Visit www.juno.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:02:05 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <39.359f1f45.2ba7e62d@aol.com> --part1_39.359f1f45.2ba7e62d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit key to all good landing is a stabilized approach long or short runway. my grammar my be bad but i don't land down wind or force a bad approach by dumping all the flaps now i know why cessna went to 30 deg for full flaps trying to save dummies that will have to go around not to mention over speeding the flaps. use the slip don't come off the rudder to fast or it will increase speed dump all the flaps after you made the field easy. as for the Kr fly it like a pitts chop the power best glide achieve power as need to control decent easy and you don't need flaps in less you got to have um. ground affect is a landing tool with the Kr you can really get this bird slow in ground afect . best wishs all fly the airplane dont let it fly you !!! mac n1055a kr2 no flaps --part1_39.359f1f45.2ba7e62d_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:08:36 -0500 To: From: "Fran Giroux" Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps Message-ID: <005e01c2ed04$0ca3aae0$1002a8c0@franshp> Now that is something I would like to see; a stick on a 172. About time. Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: KR> Slipping with Flaps > I can tell you this for certain, I slipped a 172 a couple of years ago > with full flaps during an approach to landing. I still remember what I > experienced----------a noticeable buffeting of the elevator, the stick > actually started pulsating in and out. After I stopped the slip > everything went back to normal. > > > > > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:44:29 EST Ronevogt@aol.com writes: > > When I was working as a CFI at a local flight school, our Cessnas > > were > > placarded with: "Do not slip with full flaps extended". One theory > > was that > > it blocked airflow over the elevator. Therefore, I went out and > > checked it > > out. I put down full flaps and slipped as hard as I could. Nothing > > unusual > > happened. I asked my boss about it. His explaination was: "Cessna > > built > > it's airplanes with flaps. And therefore, slipping wasn't > > necessary. By > > slipping with flaps, it was admitting that you were way behind the > > airplane, > > (if one can get behind in a Cessna). I found that to be a very weak > > > > argument. Does anyone else have a better explaination? > > > > RV > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:38:55 +0000 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org (KR List) From: ninecraven@attbi.com Subject: slipping Slipping is also related to fuel in the tanks unporting. This is the case in my Beech. The FAA in its wisdom does not specify the amount of fuel, just takes the worst case. -- Paul O'Reilly Derry NH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:07:02 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Scott Cable Subject: Particle board build table Message-ID: <20030317140702.21235.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1795419933-1047910022=:19677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As Far as NOT using particle board, you'll note that the particle board called out is 1"thick. which is probably thicker than what you kitchen counters are made from. My tables have survived 3 moves, and has served me VERY well over the years. The tables were constructed in 1996. Justin wrote:DONT use partical board. Even the cheapest wood will work better then that crap. I know from experence that partical board doent hold up well in strength. For my gusset clamps I used a "cam" design so i can control the strength and if there was alot of orce the screw would start to come out. When joining the 2 sides togetehr there was alot of pressure. My table was made from MSD I think it is called, was only $8 for a 4X8X1 Another suggestion, Dont plywood skin your fuselage until it is done witht he boat stage. If you order the plywood in advace you can trace all the lines to elemiate other problems with putting it on later. It is so much easyer to work with the fuselage with the skin off. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:47 PM Subject: Re: KR> New plans owner. > > Shahar, > Heh Congratulations! The first thing to do is to sit down and read the assembly manual. Pull out the drawings and study them where the manual referrs to a drawing. Put your drawings on a nice large flat surface with really good lighting. > After you have read completely from cover to cover the assembly manual, the first thing you need to build is a build table. > I made mine from 5'x10'x 1"thick particle board mounted to legs from a large folding table and a 2x6 frame. > Read the manual at least 2 times. > Good Luck. > PS Don't forget your drafting manual and drafting tools. > volucer wrote:BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 20px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 50px; COLOR: #006666; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica}Hi Guy's,I got the KR2 plans today, hope to be busy for a while.Any suggestions for start-up? I will accept all.73, > Dr. Shahar Tsabari > Tel. +39.0365.761000 > Fax +39.0365.761900 > > > > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Linden, MI > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online --0-1795419933-1047910022=:19677-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:25:33 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> Retractable landing gear Message-ID: <20030317.104003.-399633.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Guesstimate on shipping, Virg Coming to Lakeland? On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:40:03 EST Timboyer2@wmconnect.com writes: > Greetings Guys > > I'm putting fixed gear on my KR2 anyone in need or wanting the > retractable > gear less tires and hubs can have it just pay for the shipping.. > > Tim > Gettysburg PA > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:25:33 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> Retractable landing gear Message-ID: <20030317.104356.-399633.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Guesstimate on shipping, Virg Coming to Lakeland? On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:40:03 EST Timboyer2@wmconnect.com writes: > Greetings Guys > > I'm putting fixed gear on my KR2 anyone in need or wanting the > retractable > gear less tires and hubs can have it just pay for the shipping.. > > Tim > Gettysburg PA > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:37:40 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "bill kirkland" Subject: suberus Message-ID: <016501c2ecb4$4ace55e0$eb942a18@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C2EC8A.619398A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For thoseof you who are sub heads here is an interesting site hhtp = www.westernaviation.bc.ca note that they also sell the components and = will send you a catalogue if asked. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C2EC8A.619398A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:12:43 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Scott Cable Cc: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Michigan KR Builders & Possible Fly-in Message-ID: <20030317201243.2690.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> --0-935628956-1047931963=:2469 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Netters, I have been approached by several KR Builders about starting a get together for KR buiders in the Michigan area. So I'd like to extend an invitation to all KR builders in the Michigan area to have an ïnaugural meeting, say somewhere around the 19th or 20th of April 2003.?? Place (TBD), but most likely to be at my home in Linden, MI. (I'll talk to Price Aviation about maybe sponsoring the event, but no promises about they're responsiveness) So bring the whole family, BBQ, Pot- Luck, KR's, Volleyball and Beer! Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-935628956-1047931963=:2469-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:19:44 +0200 To: From: "Serge Vidal" Subject: Cracks o elevator hinges Message-ID: <002c01c2eccb$5d40cfc0$01000001@sergevidal12> My elevator shows cracks on the skin, around the hinges . I think that these cracks are getting worse with time. How worried should I be about that, knowing that my KR2 now approaches 10 years of age and 400 hours of fun? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:23:07 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Cracks o elevator hinges Message-Id: <3E7674FB.000022.01328@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_JU7X5BZ2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: 400 hours of fun=0D =0D What me worry? Not with that much fun. It is probably surface cracks, b= ut you might want to sand off the paint to see if the glass is cracked below= it I don't know if I have ever seen an OLD KR that didn't have cracks near the hinges.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_JU7X5BZ2QL8000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:30:32 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Cracks o elevator hinges Message-ID: <2f.368ffa07.2ba7c2a8@aol.com> --part1_2f.368ffa07.2ba7c2a8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/2003 4:52:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, svidal@icon.co.za writes: > cracks on the skin Serge, just make sure that the hinge is not moving. Cracks can be caused by weather change and moisture. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_2f.368ffa07.2ba7c2a8_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:31:26 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Cracks o elevator hinges Message-ID: <12c.25dc01cf.2ba7c2de@aol.com> --part1_12c.25dc01cf.2ba7c2de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/2003 5:19:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, DanRH@AllTel.net writes: > I don't know if I have ever seen an OLD KR that didn't have cracks near > the hinges. > and lots of other places as well Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_12c.25dc01cf.2ba7c2de_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:22:50 +0200 To: From: "Serge Vidal" Subject: RE: KR> Cracks o elevator hinges Message-ID: <001001c2ed41$a1a44630$e100a8c0@sergevidal12> Thanks for the reassurance. And, oh, I got only 120 of these 400 hours of fun! Serge -----Original Message----- From: Dan Heath [mailto:DanRH@AllTel.net] Sent: 18 March 2003 03:23 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Cracks o elevator hinges RE: 400 hours of fun What me worry? Not with that much fun. It is probably surface cracks, but you might want to sand off the paint to see if the glass is cracked below it I don't know if I have ever seen an OLD KR that didn't have cracks near the hinges. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:01:00 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Question Message-ID: <20030317.210101.2712.2.klw1953@juno.com> This will be the first time in 10 yrs that I will miss Sun'n Fun due to a job switch. I was going to buy a Garmin 111 gps this year, does anyone know if it's possible to get a phone # of a vendor at the flyin and buy one over the phone? The deals are much better at the shows than through the cataloge. Maybe someone who's going could get the vendors # and leave it on my answering machine the week of the show. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:34:33 -0800 To: From: "Traveler" Subject: New Airfoils Message-ID: <001401c2ed07$acaf0360$035cea18@Alien1> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2ECC4.9E4DA8F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters, I am getting ready to start wings soon and have a question on the AS5046 vs the AS5048. The increased spar strength and fuel = capacity are obvious advantages with the thicker airfoil, but wouldn't = the 16% airfoil potentially yield a higher cruise speed? (All other = factors being equal, of course) Thanks in advance, Thomas Dalby Boulder City, NV ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2ECC4.9E4DA8F0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:12:26 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoils Message-Id: Yes. Bob >Netters, > >I am getting ready to start wings soon and have a question >on the AS5046 vs the AS5048. The increased spar strength and fuel >capacity are obvious advantages with the thicker airfoil, but >wouldn't the 16% airfoil potentially yield a higher cruise speed? >(All other factors being equal, of course) > >Thanks in advance, > >Thomas Dalby >Boulder City, NV -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:27:09 -0500 To: "'KRnet@mailinglists.org'" From: Anthony Underwood Subject: Day Trip Message-ID: <01C2ED28.30E84B80.xbs4fiverivers@xrxgsn.com> Hey, what was that about a day trip to the airplane factory in Columbia S.C. March 22, If you don't mind i need a phone # i might want to fly the J-3 down,thanks, from Anthony up in the promised land. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:47:38 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "NORMAN SEEL" Subject: Off subject Message-ID: <008301c2ed76$77d27400$906a3f04@dslverizon.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C2ED33.694A7EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very often someone on the list will send a message, that everyone = receives, asking for a particular person to send his personal email = address. That does not have to be done. Simply take the message in = question, click "Forward", and there's his address. Then one can = highlight it, "Copy" and "Paste" it anywhere he wants. At least this works for Outlook Express. I hope I am not out of line mentioning this. Norm ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C2ED33.694A7EC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:03:19 -0800 (PST) To: John & Elaine Roffey From: Scott Cable Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Michigan Builders & Possible Great Lakes Fly-In Message-ID: <20030318160319.510.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> --0-99881923-1048003399=:99293 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John & KRNetters, It's good to hear from you again. One of the reasons that I choose to live in Linden, MI. is the fact that there are 3 small private airfields within 10 miles of my home. Price is the best known and is the closest to my house, and is also a public use airfield. However, there is a bunch of construction going on around the airfield so I'll have to check with the airport manager about if or when the runways would be closed. Price has a 3600 ft paved airstrip with a 500 ft concrete extension for 4000 ft take-off. Parking would be adjacent to the taxiway, although there are some hangers, but they're supposed to be tearing them down. Fuel and some small parts are available at Price. Fowlerville is a big grass strip which is about 10 miles from my house. Fowlerville hosts a very large fly-in every year. Fuel is available along with parking. I'll see if I can get some additional info on the availability. Cole's Airfield is off of Ray Road about 5 miles north. I'll check near there to get some additional info. There was no phone number for Cole's, or any information about services etc. Unfortunately, Nowiki's was recently sold to a developer who made a subdivision out of it. So Nowiki's is no more. Bishop International (Flint) is also very close for those wishing to fly into or fly commercially. Bishop is about a 15 - 20 minute drive south to my house. There are several Hotels like the Holiday Inn Express, Knights Inn etc. that are also nearby. I'll be glad to host such a gathering at my home, and there is a nice park nearby called Linden County Park which is adjacent to Byram Lake. My wife is gathering additional information about facilities etc. There are several lakes near my house, so has anyone ever built a KR with floats? Or does anyone in the KR group operate a float plane? If so there is Silver Lake, and Lake Ponomah both within a couple of miles of my home. I guess all we have to do is pick a date. As it turns out, the 19th & 20th is Easter Weekend, which may cause conflicts with other builders etc.. My wife had other plans, so we would need to choose another date other than the 20th. My suggestion is the 26th & 27th of April 2003. So let's do a Great Lakes KR Gathering! John & Elaine Roffey wrote:Hi Scott. At one time there used to be a KR flyin down at Toledo Metcalf Airport. That was where I first saw a KR fly and decided to get aboard the KR thing. It was put on by the local EAA chapter and run by Ron Smolinski. The past five years or so haven't produced any KR activity in the Midwest other than the small group that goes to Oshkosh each year. I have suggested to some of the guys that we should do a mid winter thing for the Great Lakes Area builders, but no-one has stepped up to host the deal. I suggested my shop here in Fort Gratiot, but it is just not close enough to the local airport for any one who might want to fly in. Would you be in a position to host a Great Lakes KR get-together at Linden? There are quite a few builders and flyers of the mark in the area to support a get-together. I'll be there if it comes off. John Roffeyjeroffey@tir.com Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-99881923-1048003399=:99293-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************