Received: from [66.113.66.18] by bou2100 (ArGoSoft Mail Server Freeware, Version 1.70 (1.7.0.3)); Wed, 7 May 2003 10:49:22 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19DSx1-000PlY-04 for lists@bouyea.net; Wed, 07 May 2003 10:43:31 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============13931100037491606==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: krnet-request@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1 To: krnet@mylist.net X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Sender: krnet-bounces+lists=bouyea.net@mylist.net Errors-To: krnet-bounces+lists=bouyea.net@mylist.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:43:31 -0700 --===============13931100037491606== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: KRnet Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." --===============13931100037491606== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Today's Topics (21 messages) Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fuel Tank 2. Re: liability Rant (Ron Eason) 3. out board wing question 4. Foam Dust (Peg and Mike Meyer) 5. Tandem Seating (Aggie lewanda) 6. Re: Heat Muffs (Timothy Bellville) 7. Re: Tandem Seating (Dan Heath) 8. Fiberglass question (Alexander Birca (RMD)) 9. Re: liability Rant-See ya!! (Mark Langford) 10. RE: tandem seating (ace nunye) 11. Re: Fiberglass question (Steven Eberhart) 12. RE: Fiberglass question (Alexander Birca (RMD)) 13. Re: Fiberglass question (Mark Langford) 14. RE: Fiberglass question (gleone) 15. Re: Fiberglass question (Justin) 16. RE: Fiberglass question (Alexander Birca (RMD)) 17. apology fir the consequences of my actions (Steven Eberhart) 18. removal header intact (vincent chrisovergis) 19. Re: Fiberglass question (Tim Brown) 20. Re: Fuel Tank 21. Re: Re: KR>Fuel Tank --===============13931100037491606== Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="===============34397703716539163==" MIME-Version: 1.0 --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:32:46 EDT From: AviationMech@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank Message-ID: <127.28cd3747.2be9ae2e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 In a message dated 5/5/2003 8:55:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > a RR fuel tank that is made out of Polyester resin You are correct that the RR tank is polyester resin. Why not use polyester resin. It's easy to work with and is fuel proof. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com/aviationmech --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:16:11 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>liability Rant Message-ID: <001b01c31436$3ef292a0$6501a8c0@Administration> References: <20030506154414.71267.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 LET ELECT THIS GUY PRESIDENT! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: "Mark Langford" ; "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:44 AM Subject: Re: KR>liability Rant > You know Mark, that if more people went on a "rant" about frivolous lawsuits, then the US wouldn't be in the economic mess that we're in right now. It starts by allowing these sleeze-ball attorneys to advertise. It is the cause of why your medical bills and insurance is so high. It's why your auto insurance costs so much. The reason why the american public pays so much for everything is because of lawsuits or the threat of lawsuits. I recently attented a city council meeting in my small town. Can you believe that they were requiring a contractor to have a million dollars worth of liability insurance.... To paint the exterior of the small MIll building?And you wonder why your taxes are so high?I say we start a grass-roots effort to ban attorney's from advertising on TV., and require limits and a review process for civil and medical malpractice suits. > it paid my salary for two years, and it was > really interesting work, but it just irritates me to no end to have put that > much effort into something that's now been shelved due to the fear of a > frivolous, groundless lawsuit. > > The problem is that nobody's reponsible for their own actions or decisions > anymore. And stuff doesn't "just happen" either. We live in a society > where when something negative occurs, it's somebody else's fault, and the > first place you look to place the blame is wherever the biggest pot of money > lies. My father's been sued twice for a million dollars each time. They > were both so rediculous it'd make you cry, but it cost him a year of > sleepless nights, and well over $40,000 to defend himself, even though both > suits were groundless. Sore subject, I guess. Sorry about the rant... > --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:49:02 EDT From: Cowgirlflying@wmconnect.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>out board wing question Message-ID: <2d.2e320e6f.2be9c00e@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Hello Everyone. I'm prepairing to construct my out board wings using Dan Deils wing skins. When I start to place the ribs in their proper spots I noticed the Aft spar bends forward as it nears the of of the wing. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong. Thanks Pat --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:03:22 -0500 From: "Peg and Mike Meyer" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Foam Dust Message-ID: <00eb01c3143c$d8ae4a00$24b3fea9@o0c8u6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Very briefly, I discovered a great little tool for the removal of the = mountains of foam dust that are generated when building a KR - a cheap = knock-off dustbuster. I picked one up at Home Depot - 7 bucks. It will = marginally vacuum up sawdust, but it does a great job of sucking up foam = dust. Shop vacs do nothing more than redistribute the dust, but a = dustbuster will actually capture and hold it. FYI - the one I got is = called a "Vista" and it has a paper filter that can be blown out with a = little compressed air. Mike MeyerFrom Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net Tue May 06 20:12:07 2003 Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.115]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19DFLi-000KhD-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 06 May 2003 20:12:06 -0700 Received: from donnas (129.detroit13rh15rt.mi.dial-access.att.net[12.87.96.129]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20030507031235111007cacae>; Wed, 7 May 2003 03:12:35 +0000 Message-ID: <004f01c31446$83e70ed0$8160570c@donnas> From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <127.28cd3747.2be9ae2e@aol.com> Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:12:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Thanks Orma, My tests have all proved the same as you say. The west system peeled right off of the poly. Poly to poly seems the best way to go. My only concern is not being able to use Auto fuel with the poly tank, because of the Toluene added. Oh well Avgas it is. BTW when do you want to get together for that steak dinner? Thanks Tim KR2 N7038V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank > In a message dated 5/5/2003 8:55:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > a RR fuel tank that is made out of Polyester resin > > You are correct that the RR tank is polyester resin. Why not use polyester > resin. It's easy to work with and is fuel proof. > > Orma aka AviationMech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to Present > www.members.aol.com/aviationmech > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Aggie lewanda To: KRnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Tandem Seating Message-ID: <20030507050050.2928.qmail@web40308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 I am new to this list. (Dropped out about a year ago) I have been offered a partially completed KR-2S that the builder converted to a tandem seating arrangement. I am very interested in buying this project and finishing it and I would contemplate using a Corvair engine for power. My question is, does anyone have any information on the weight & balance of the tandem arrangement? What does this do to pitch sensitivity? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Anyone wanting to e-mail me offline can do so at agate12@yahoo.com Thanks Dean ===== Dean Allen P.O. Box 4173 Greenville, SC 29608 (704) 348-1715 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 05:15:34 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Heat Muffs Message-ID: <008701c31479$37e99880$2a5f570c@donnas> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Yes I tried it on my Sonerai, I didn't work for carb heat, but might work for cabin heat it a enclosed cockpit. by using a oil cooler with a small blower type fan mounted above your feet. Tim KR2 N7038V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:31 PM Subject: Re: KR>Heat Muffs > Has anyone tried using putting a heat box on the oil cooler for > cabin/carberator heat? > > Chuck Wyatt > Tehuacana, Texas > crkr2s@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:33:28 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Tandem Seating Message-ID: <3EB90B28.000004.01216@dan> References: <20030507050050.2928.qmail@web40308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 I have never seen a tandem KR and Rand does not sell one. This is a one = up design and you will have to do the weight and balance yourself. It is ve= ry unlikely that WB will come in the envelope in this configuration. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From bo124rs@hotmail.com Wed May 07 04:24:24 2003 Received: from f90.law10.hotmail.com ([64.4.15.90] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19DN28-000Mn7-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 07 May 2003 04:24:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:24:54 -0700 Received: from 64.12.96.200 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 May 2003 11:24:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.12.96.200] X-Originating-Email: [bo124rs@hotmail.com] From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Bcc: Subject: Re: KR>liability Rant-See ya!! Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 07:24:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2003 11:24:54.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[48BE8140:01C3148B] X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >From: "Ron Eason" >LET ELECT THIS GUY PRESIDENT! > >From: "Scott Cable" It starts by allowing these sleeze-ball attorneys to advertise. I knew my intent to enlighten the list, as a whole, potential liabilities inherent with airplanes construction would turn on my intentions to share valuable information. I am too good a friend with Mark Langford not to be able to see his distrust, Mark and I will remain friends, but it should have stopped there. I did not call engineers sleeze-balls or whatever profession Mr. Cable is proud to claim as his stake in life. I am in the process of trying to design, build and document for those on the KRNet, an alum. fuel tank that is both light weight and affordable. I will try to make it to the gathering this year, if so I will put on a forum on basic alum. work. If you use what I say and it doesn't work, blame me, I can take it. With that said, it is more than difficult to sit and listen while something so inherent in the fabric of this countries claim of independance is attacked. I guess I'm still brainwashed into thinking the judicial system is actually our safeguard from the executive and legislative branches. You will notice, I never attached anyone during this discussion and I hope at least others were educated to the point of realizing professional consultation my be a worthwhile investment. My welcome has now been worn out. I thought this thread was over, but I was wrong. Please build safe, but above all, keep on building. You know my private email address, but when I send this I'm unsubscribing. Build safe. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:41:22 +0200 From: "Alexander Birca (RMD)" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC2@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 Hi All, the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass which is used for lay-up process. May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be different one in different area? Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction. Thanks, Alex Birca --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:19:12 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Cc: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR>liability Rant-See ya!! Message-ID: <012901c31492$dea80580$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Dana Overall wrote: > ... I am too good a friend with Mark Langford not to be > able to see his distrust, Mark and I will remain friends, but it should have > stopped there. I did not call engineers sleeze-balls or whatever profession > Mr. Cable is proud to claim as his stake in life. I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I don't know that there's anybody on KRnet that I distrust, especially Dana. I haven't had my feathers ruffled in any way with this thread, and hope that Dana doesn't think that I'm hacked off at him. This thread shed some light on all aspects of the liability issue, and I think we all left it with a better understanding of both sides of the issue. One thing I WILL say for this thread is that it cost me a propeller. A KRnetter had carefully engineered and BUILT a propeller for my specific engine, airplane, and cruise speed, with the intention of developing a prop that Corvair powered KR could use, and now that this liability issue has come up, he's decided NOT to ship it to me due to liability concerns! Still, I'm not mad at anybody, it's just "one of those things that happens". I guess I deserved it though, considering I've cut a lot of folks off with the demise of TET. I would be the LAST person on earth to sue anybody over something like a propeller, but like Dana said, there's nothing to prevent the heirs of the family that my plane crash kills from suing the guy that made the propeller (think John Denver). I don't think Scott was talking about Dana (he's not a practicing lawyer, doesn't advertise, and isn't a sleezeball), but apparently it struck a nerve somewhere. The one thing we should all take from this exchange is that you never know how somebody's going to interpret your comments, so do your best to put a nice face them. And that doesn't mean cut somebody to the bone and then stick a smiley face on the end (the guy that used to do that has been off the list for years). We ALL suffer when we lose good people like Dana... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:21:41 -0400 From: "ace nunye" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>RE: tandem seating Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 I have seen a 4 place KR does this count as tandem ?????? LOL I do wonder if the thing ever flew sucessfully tho I dont know how in the heck they ever got it balanced. There is a picture of it on at: [1]http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Valley/2636/zsvko4s.html That oughta stir up a lil conversation Mike, KR-200s, % ? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with [2]the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* References 1. http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Valley/2636/zsvko4s.html 2. http://g.msn.com/8HMIENCA/2731??PS= --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 07:30:36 -0500 From: Steven Eberhart To: KR builders and pilots Cc: Dana Overall Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <3EB8FC6C.9030209@newtech.com> References: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC2@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 OK guys. Here is a perfect example of how we have to live with the consequences of our actions. We have, or had, a list participant that has gone out of his way to help fellow builders with composite questions. He has put on builder seminars at many of the gatherings and has always gone out of his way to help other builders. Heck, he even stayed around after selling his KR just because he loved the little airplane and wanted to help out other builders. Well, he is gone now because he didn't care to hang out with fellow builders that insisted on calling him a "sleeze-ball" even if only by association. I think it is very interesting that the very next post after he announced that he was un-subscribing was one asking for help with composites. Well he is gone and you are not going to get an answer from him. Repeat after me, ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Dana have fun building your RV. I look forward to your posts on the RV list. It is a shame we won't see your posts, that genuinely attempted to help out your fellow builders, here on the KR list. Maybe, just maybe, if we keep our focus on airplanes we won't loose any more people that have actually built an airplane. soapbox_mode=OFF Steve Eberhart Alexander Birca (RMD) wrote: > Hi All, > the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass which is used for lay-up process. > May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be different one in different area? > Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction. > > > Thanks, > Alex Birca --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:51:08 +0200 From: "Alexander Birca (RMD)" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC3@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 ????????????????????????????????????? May be I did not understand right, may be it is my poor English.... I am not from USA, I couldn't attend any gathering events, unfortunately. I do not know so much about YOUR type of cloths, there is not so much info from technical point of view, not dummy user. So, my question is to understand the physical properties of used cloths in order to be able to find some things similar here, in my country. Is this a big problem? Sorry, Alex -----Original Message----- From: Steven Eberhart [mailto:newtech@newtech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:31 PM To: KR builders and pilots Cc: Dana Overall Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question OK guys. Here is a perfect example of how we have to live with the consequences of our actions. We have, or had, a list participant that has gone out of his way to help fellow builders with composite questions. He has put on builder seminars at many of the gatherings and has always gone out of his way to help other builders. Heck, he even stayed around after selling his KR just because he loved the little airplane and wanted to help out other builders. Well, he is gone now because he didn't care to hang out with fellow builders that insisted on calling him a "sleeze-ball" even if only by association. I think it is very interesting that the very next post after he announced that he was un-subscribing was one asking for help with composites. Well he is gone and you are not going to get an answer from him. Repeat after me, ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Dana have fun building your RV. I look forward to your posts on the RV list. It is a shame we won't see your posts, that genuinely attempted to help out your fellow builders, here on the KR list. Maybe, just maybe, if we keep our focus on airplanes we won't loose any more people that have actually built an airplane. soapbox_mode=OFF Steve Eberhart Alexander Birca (RMD) wrote: > Hi All, > the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass which is used for lay-up process. > May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be different one in different area? > Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction. > > > Thanks, > Alex Birca _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:26:57 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <015901c3149c$56c48800$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC3@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Alex Birca wrote: >>the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass which is used for lay-up process. May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be different one in different area? Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction.<< No problem, Alex. Fiberglass typically used for all KR construction is 5.85 ounces per yard, 18 x 18 plain weave, .009" thick, with tensile strength of 250 x 250 psi. I'm not an expert on stock KR construction, but I believe in most places only one layer is used, except on the wings where you end up with two layers around and forward of the main spar, overlapping at the leading edge for a few inches to yield 4 layers at the leading edge. You probably end up with more than one layer on control surfaces as well. All of this is specified in the KR builder's manual. I don't know of any place online where these details are given, but others are welcome to chime in or correct any misinformation I've given (from memory)... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:24:23 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: RE: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <3EB90907.000010.01700@DDMWDD11> References: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC3@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_NKQIN0X1VA4000000000" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 --------------Boundary-00=_NKQIN0X1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think what Alex is looking for is information on the covering material for the KR. =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:58:04 AM=0D To: 'KR builders and pilots'=0D Subject: RE: KR>Fiberglass question=0D =0D ?????????????????????????????????????=0D =0D May be I did not understand right, may be it is my poor English....=0D I am not from USA, I couldn't attend any gathering events, unfortunately.= =0D I do not know so much about YOUR type of cloths, there is not so much inf= o =0D from technical point of view, not dummy user. =0D So, my question is to understand the physical properties of used cloths i= n =0D order to be able to find some things similar here, in my country. Is this= a big problem?=0D =0D Sorry,=0D Alex=0D =0D =0D =0D -----Original Message-----=0D From: Steven Eberhart [mailto:newtech@newtech.com]=0D Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:31 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Cc: Dana Overall=0D Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question=0D =0D =0D OK guys. Here is a perfect example of how we have to live with the =0D consequences of our actions. We have, or had, a list participant that =0D has gone out of his way to help fellow builders with composite =0D questions. He has put on builder seminars at many of the gatherings and =0D has always gone out of his way to help other builders. Heck, he even =0D stayed around after selling his KR just because he loved the little =0D airplane and wanted to help out other builders. Well, he is gone now =0D because he didn't care to hang out with fellow builders that insisted on = =0D calling him a "sleeze-ball" even if only by association.=0D =0D I think it is very interesting that the very next post after he =0D announced that he was un-subscribing was one asking for help with =0D composites. Well he is gone and you are not going to get an answer from =0D him. Repeat after me, ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.=0D =0D Dana have fun building your RV. I look forward to your posts on the RV =0D list. It is a shame we won't see your posts, that genuinely attempted =0D to help out your fellow builders, here on the KR list.=0D =0D Maybe, just maybe, if we keep our focus on airplanes we won't loose any =0D more people that have actually built an airplane.=0D =0D soapbox_mode=3DOFF=0D =0D Steve Eberhart=0D =0D Alexander Birca (RMD) wrote:=0D > Hi All,=0D > the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fibergla= ss which is used for lay-up process. =0D > May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should b= e different one in different area? =0D > Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction.=0D > =0D > =0D > Thanks,=0D > Alex Birca=0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_NKQIN0X1VA4000000000-- --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:28:34 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "Mark Langford" , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <003001c31494$2dcb9d60$83d81818@computer> References: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC3@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> <015901c3149c$56c48800$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 A suggestion I have for fiberglass is use the standard 5.85oz fiberglass, then put a layer of deck cloth over it. The end result is a very smooth peice with little sanding/filing. It also add's some little strength. It is something liek 1.45oz. Thats what I will be doin on my tail etc... Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:26 AM Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question > Alex Birca wrote: > > >>the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass > which is used for lay-up process. > May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be > different one in different area? > Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR > construction.<< > > No problem, Alex. Fiberglass typically used for all KR construction is 5.85 > ounces per yard, 18 x 18 plain weave, .009" thick, with tensile strength of > 250 x 250 psi. I'm not an expert on stock KR construction, but I believe > in most places only one layer is used, except on the wings where you end up > with two layers around and forward of the main spar, overlapping at the > leading edge for a few inches to yield 4 layers at the leading edge. You > probably end up with more than one layer on control surfaces as well. All > of this is specified in the KR builder's manual. I don't know of any place > online where these details are given, but others are welcome to chime in or > correct any misinformation I've given (from memory)... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:23:00 +0200 From: "Alexander Birca (RMD)" To: "'Mark Langford'" , "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC5@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 Thanks a lot Mark, it is exactly what I want to know, especially thickness and strength. Now I can choice some things here. As about number of layers, I had read the manual, and that why I was asking, there are just a few words about and I wasn't sure. I am very appreciate your assistance. BR, Alex Birca -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:27 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question Alex Birca wrote: >>the question is, what is the thickness and tensile strength of fiberglass which is used for lay-up process. May I use one type (thickness or density?) of fiberglass or it should be different one in different area? Where I can read more detailed info about used fiberglass in KR construction.<< No problem, Alex. Fiberglass typically used for all KR construction is 5.85 ounces per yard, 18 x 18 plain weave, .009" thick, with tensile strength of 250 x 250 psi. I'm not an expert on stock KR construction, but I believe in most places only one layer is used, except on the wings where you end up with two layers around and forward of the main spar, overlapping at the leading edge for a few inches to yield 4 layers at the leading edge. You probably end up with more than one layer on control surfaces as well. All of this is specified in the KR builder's manual. I don't know of any place online where these details are given, but others are welcome to chime in or correct any misinformation I've given (from memory)... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:32:26 -0500 From: Steven Eberhart To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>apology fir the consequences of my actions Message-ID: <3EB9270A.5040403@newtech.com> References: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC3@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 Guess I blew it. The next message after Dana's post about unsubscribing was Alex Birca's question about glass cloth. I didn't change the subject line when I sent my post. Alex, and KRNet please accept my apology for the confusion caused by my not changing the subject line. Thanks Mark for jumping in, in a very professional manner, and answering Alex's questions. Sorry guys, Steve Eberhart Alexander Birca (RMD) wrote: > ????????????????????????????????????? > > May be I did not understand right, may be it is my poor English.... > I am not from USA, I couldn't attend any gathering events, unfortunately. > I do not know so much about YOUR type of cloths, there is not so much info > from technical point of view, not dummy user. > So, my question is to understand the physical properties of used cloths in > order to be able to find some things similar here, in my country. Is this a big problem? > > Sorry, > Alex --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:51:53 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent chrisovergis To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>removal header intact Message-ID: <20030507155153.48824.qmail@web11208.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 please take my name of the lis because I work overseas and have no access to the net for a while while over there __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Brown To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass question Message-ID: <20030507164033.47419.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <9CC6CC2973F2D211B3580008C70DB2D205BDDCC2@eatvint903.dsa.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19 Alex: You can go to aircraftspruce.com and order what you need and/or get additional info from them. The glass sold by them is identified as "used on KR Aircraft." As others said, it is 5.85 oz/sq.yd. and is called "Lightweight Boat or Tooling Cloth. Plain Weave. Thread Count 18 x 18. Breaking Strength 250 x 250 pounds/ inch. Finished Weight 5.64 oz./ sq.yd. Thickness .009". The AS&S catalog also says all the fiberglass fabrics are volan treated for maximum strength and resistance to moisture and abrasion. As Mark indicated, one layer is used everywhere except on the leading edge of the wings where 2 layers go from the main spar over the leading edge. When this is done on the top and bottom of the wing one ends up with 4 layers on the actual leading edge. You also end up with double thickness on the leading edge of the H.S and V.S. due to the wrapping of the glass from one side to the other. Hope this helps. By and large my KR2S is stock with the exception of using the new wing templates from TET. --- "Alexander Birca (RMD)" wrote: > > Hi All, > the question is, what is the thickness and > tensile strength of fiberglass which is used > for lay-up process. > May I use one type (thickness or density?) of > fiberglass or it should be different one in > different area? > Where I can read more detailed info about used > fiberglass in KR construction. > > > Thanks, > Alex Birca > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Tim Brown Lake Arrowhead, Ca. e-mail me at timwbrown@yahoo.com See my KR2S project at: http://www.geocities.com/timwbrown __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:39:01 EDT From: AviationMech@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank Message-ID: <15d.1f16c4bc.2bea9eb5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 In a message dated 5/6/2003 11:12:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > that steak dinner? > Tim of course you know that there is no season for eating steak Orma --===============34397703716539163== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:45:59 -0400 From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: Re: KR>Fuel Tank Message-ID: <20030507174600.ZPNW3580.imf60bis.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 21 Tim, Orma and All, I thought the tank from Rand was Vinylester. At least that is what I was told many years ago. Vinylester is what all of the plastic automobile service station gas tanks are made of. Visit one of their manufacturing sites and you can see for yourself that vinylester resins are not affected by any of the modern fuel additives. The tank in the Wannabee is from Rand and is put together with vinylester resin. When I built it I made up some test strips from the tank and strips of glass with vinylester resin all bonded together. I let them cure for one month in the hot South Carolina sunshine and rain (UV rays and all). Then I soaked them in five diffrent brands of additive rich gasolines for three months. Absolutely no ill effects. We will be burning 92 octane automobile gasoline in our GPASC 2180cc VW. N64KR KRJerry Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC > > From: "Timothy Bellville" > Date: 2003/05/06 Tue PM 11:12:37 EDT > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank > > Thanks Orma, > My tests have all proved the same as you say. The west system peeled right > off of the poly. Poly to poly seems the best way to go. > My only concern is not being able to use Auto fuel with the poly tank, > because of the Toluene added. Oh well Avgas it is. > BTW when do you want to get together for that steak dinner? > Thanks > Tim > KR2 N7038V > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Fuel Tank > > > > In a message dated 5/5/2003 8:55:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > > > a RR fuel tank that is made out of Polyester resin > > > > You are correct that the RR tank is polyester resin. Why not use > polyester > > resin. It's easy to work with and is fuel proof. > > > > Orma aka AviationMech > > KR-2 N110LR > > 1984 to Present > > www.members.aol.com/aviationmech > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > --===============34397703716539163==-- --===============13931100037491606== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --===============13931100037491606==--