From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 55, Issue 1 Date: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:54 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: KR1 - first time builder? (Daren Cogdon) 2. Re: Re: I'm contemplating building a KR1 as a first project. Is this a goodchoice? (Daren Cogdon) 3. Re: KR1 - first time builder? (Daren Cogdon) 4. Re: KR1 - first time builder? (Daren Cogdon) 5. Re: it's somethign to do with the elevators, (Dan Heath) 6. A way to install seat belt shoulder harness (Dan Heath) 7. Re: A way to install seat belt shoulder harness (Mark Jones) 8. Re: gussets 9. Re: gussets (Justin) 10. Cowling (Justin) 11. Re: Aluminum wing tanks (robert glidden) 12. Re: vert. card compass 13. Re: Aluminum wing tanks (Mark Jones) 14. Re: Static margin 15. speed brakes. (Harold and Audrey Woods) 16. Re: Aluminum wing tanks (Justin) 17. RE: speed brakes. (Ron Freiberger) 18. RE: Aluminum wing tanks (Ron Freiberger) 19. KR1004K, Pitch sensitivity, Anti servo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:37:21 +0000 From: "Daren Cogdon" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR>KR1 - first time builder? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 I'd like to build more than just a KR-1 - in fact, I have my (gun)sights set on something even more warbird-like in the future, built the same way as a KR. >From: "Jim Faughn" >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >To: "'KR builders and pilots'" >Subject: RE: KR>KR1 - first time builder? >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:37:56 -0500 > >Mark is correct. I have biased my aircraft to the front end of the CG >envelope and I love the way it fly's. I haven't found anyone yet from 8 >years old to 62 that can't fly it. The other part of the idea of a first >time builder is - are you sure you will build another aircraft? I never >will! Unless you love to build and this is your only hobby, then you >should probably build the aircraft that you think you would like to have >for a lifetime. > >You can build a fast enough and fun KR that can be controlled without >too much transition. > >Jim N891JF > >Jim Faughn >4323D Laclede Ave. >St. Louis, MO 63108 >(314)652-7659 >Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net >Web Site http://jfaughn.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On >Behalf Of Mark Langford >Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 1:17 PM >To: KR builders and pilots >Subject: Re: KR>KR1 - first time builder? > > >I know I've made comments about pitch sensitivity before, but I've >tempered my attitude ever since I flew Jim Faughn's KR. There are >sensitive ones and then there are "light" ones. I could see how you >could crawl into Jim's or Troy's and fly it for the first time with no >problem at all, and learn to love it in short order. I've flown others >that made me think I was going to rip the wings off, and others >somewhere in the middle. I suspect CG had a lot to do with this, and I >think Jim would tell you that his CG is biased toward the forward end. >As long as the CG kept forward, rather than aft, I don't have a problem >with KR pitch control. It's a small, short-coupled plane, so yes, if >you lean forward the pitch is going to change, but's that's just the way >it is. > > But like I said, I've only flown a few, a little at a time, so I'm no >expert. I don't guess it will be long before a bunch of us wannabees >will be real-live KR pilots, and we'll tell you how it is with the new >generation of KRs. Other comments are more than welcome... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >N56ML "at" hiwaay.net >see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:41:50 +0000 From: "Daren Cogdon" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Re: I'm contemplating building a KR1 as a first project. Is this a goodchoice? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Hi Dan Unfortunately, with me being in the UK, and having a job that isn't as great as it could have been (in short, IT SUCKS!!!), I doubt very much if I could make it over for the gathering, never mind finding somewhere to stay over! :-( However, I do plan on having a look at my next local PFA Rally to see if anyone has a KR there - they had a WAR FW190 last year, and a ful-sized P-51 a couple of years before that! Something for everyone, as they say! Daz >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >To: >Subject: KR>Re: I'm contemplating building a KR1 as a first project. Is >this a good choice? Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:07:40 -0700 (Pacific Daylight >Time) > >DAZ, > >I am on my second KR, so I think it is a good choice. If you like a single >place airplane, it is a very good choice. Look at the featured KR on >http://KRNet.org That is one of the finest examples of a KR that you will >ever see and it is a KR1. Come to the gathering this year and you may get >to see it in person. > >N64KR > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > >See you in Red Oak - 2003 > >See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > _______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:47:56 +0000 From: "Daren Cogdon" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR1 - first time builder? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Richard I noticed that there were a lot of comments about the KR1's inherent pitch instability, and planned to do as you are - making the fuselage a little longer (not more than 18ins, say), although I seem to remember late-model Spitfires having similar problems. Maybe the KR1 and the Spits share something in this department? (I'll have to read up - it's somethign to do with the elevators, I know that much!). What I meant by "pilot-friendly" was, if I screwed around with the tail section, would I upset the plane's CofG by a large amount? If so, what could I do to overcome this? (fit a bigger engine, put on more weight???) I don't mind the fact that the KR has to be flown all the time - that's the way I want it! Daz >From: Richardalps@aol.com >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: Re: KR>KR1 - first time builder? >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:12:28 EDT > >Daz asks: > >I'm contemplating building a KR1 as a first project. > >Is this a good choice? Or should I start with something else? I really >like the KR1 and would love to modify the tailplane (just a little) to >resemble, say, a Messerschmitt 109 fighter. Would it take a lot of >modification to get this, and would it still be "pilot-friendly"?< > >Daz: >If you have read this board at length, you should know that the KR series >of >airplanes is inherently pitch sensitive. I too plan to build a KR, and I >am >prepared to accept this condition, though I plan to build the plane a tad >longer to reduce this sensititvity. Mark Langford has considered this >condition, >and has provided much data and perspective about pitch sensitivity, and >actually many other aspects of the KR-2 in general. I think you will find >all his >information to be good reads. > >Your question about "pilot friendly" seems a loaded question. Much depends >on your personality and pilot experience. You can't trim out a KR, and >take a >nap. If that is a problem, you may want to consider another planform. > >Please understand that I am relatively new to the internet stuff, and I >respond to your e-mail because I do not see anyone else offering help. > >Richard Alps > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:47:57 +0000 From: "Daren Cogdon" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR1 - first time builder? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Richard I noticed that there were a lot of comments about the KR1's inherent pitch instability, and planned to do as you are - making the fuselage a little longer (not more than 18ins, say), although I seem to remember late-model Spitfires having similar problems. Maybe the KR1 and the Spits share something in this department? (I'll have to read up - it's somethign to do with the elevators, I know that much!). What I meant by "pilot-friendly" was, if I screwed around with the tail section, would I upset the plane's CofG by a large amount? If so, what could I do to overcome this? (fit a bigger engine, put on more weight???) I don't mind the fact that the KR has to be flown all the time - that's the way I want it! Daz >From: Richardalps@aol.com >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: Re: KR>KR1 - first time builder? >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:12:28 EDT > >Daz asks: > >I'm contemplating building a KR1 as a first project. > >Is this a good choice? Or should I start with something else? I really >like the KR1 and would love to modify the tailplane (just a little) to >resemble, say, a Messerschmitt 109 fighter. Would it take a lot of >modification to get this, and would it still be "pilot-friendly"?< > >Daz: >If you have read this board at length, you should know that the KR series >of >airplanes is inherently pitch sensitive. I too plan to build a KR, and I >am >prepared to accept this condition, though I plan to build the plane a tad >longer to reduce this sensititvity. Mark Langford has considered this >condition, >and has provided much data and perspective about pitch sensitivity, and >actually many other aspects of the KR-2 in general. I think you will find >all his >information to be good reads. > >Your question about "pilot friendly" seems a loaded question. Much depends >on your personality and pilot experience. You can't trim out a KR, and >take a >nap. If that is a problem, you may want to consider another planform. > >Please understand that I am relatively new to the internet stuff, and I >respond to your e-mail because I do not see anyone else offering help. > >Richard Alps > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:46:24 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: KR>Re: it's somethign to do with the elevators, Message-ID: <3EDBFDEF.000001.01144@dan> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 RE: Also, If so, what could I do to overcome this? (fit a bigger engine, put on more weight???)=0D =0D =0D Daz,=0D =0D Actually it is not the elevator. It has to do with a characteristic tha= t I have heard called "short coupled". This has been defined to me as the distance between a point on the main wing ( I don't know what it is call= ed) and the same point on the horizontal stabilizer, and the relationship th= at, to the mean chord of the main wing. =0D =0D So you could have a plane that looked to have a short distance between th= e two wings and it not be short coupled because the mean chord of the main wing was very short.=0D =0D I hope someone with more aeronautical engineering knowledge than I have, will explain it better.=0D =0D You can offset the C of G by moving the engine out farther, or put on a monster engine. However, your results will vary.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From flesner@midwest.net Mon Jun 02 18:53:51 2003 Received: from epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.181]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19N0zn-000HMB-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:53:51 -0700 Received: from dsc06-cir-oh-5-209.rasserver.net ([206.215.113.209] helo=larry-flesner) by epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19N11R-0001dd-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:55:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030602205256.007ad720@pop.midwest.net> X-Sender: flesner@pop.midwest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:52:56 -0500 To: KR builders and pilots From: larry flesner In-Reply-To: <005001c32860$0353c960$eb942a18@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers. com> References: <00f501c32848$468985c0$1202a8c0@basement> <3EDA0E44.E8CA7E4B@tritel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: KR>gussets X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: When I was cutting all the gussets for the fuselage I used a trick that someone told me about and it worked very well. Whether the gusset has a single angle or compound angle you really don't care what that angle is, you just want to duplicate it on whatever you are using to cut , sand, etc. that angle. Take an old hacksaw blade and brake a section off each end of whatever length you want. Place these two end pieces together and put a pop rivit through the hole. After the pop rivit is set, use a hammer to pound the rivit to a tightness that allows you to adjust the angle of the two pieces but will hold that angle once set. I made one tool from a red blade and another from a black blade. I used one color for horizontal angles and the other for vertical angles so I wouldn't get confused when I got to the saw. Simply open the tool to a greater angle that you will need and slide it into the position the gusset will fill. When pushed into place it will conform to the angle you need for the gusset. Now you can use the tool to set the saw, sander, or whatever. As I stated above, you really don't care what that angle is , you just want to duplicate it. How many of you don't have one or two hacksaw blades in your shop that should have been pitched years ago? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:09:53 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>A way to install seat belt shoulder harness Message-ID: <3EDC2DA1.000008.01144@dan> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 If you are interested in how someone else has installed their seat belt shoulder harness, come take a look. You can click on the blue stuff belo= w and you will not have to pass go. However, if you want to go to go, you = can click on Home Page from there.=0D =0D http://kr-builder.org/SeatBelts/index.html =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar Mon Jun 02 19:16:02 2003 Received: from srvsr5.cpenet.com.ar ([200.51.28.248]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19N1L8-000IWK-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:15:55 -0700 Received: from iglesias [200.63.188.115] by srvsr5.cpenet.com.ar (SMTPD32-7.04) id A50220B9012A; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 23:16:34 -0300 Message-ID: <001701c32976$7cb93c60$73bc3fc8@iglesias> From: "Eduardo Iglesias" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <000e01c323fe$f200a620$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Subject: Re: KR>dual sticks...finished! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:14:56 -0300 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Centro_M=E9dico?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3295C.C912FA20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3295C.C912FA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Mark Very pretty! Here my dual sticks alla Pollywagen. It has three mouvements: the two classics and a third that alowe you to move both ailerons up and down (flaperons for landing and negative ailerons for more cruisse speed) Itīs very simple and I hope it will wokr well. Regards from Argentina Eduardo at La Pampa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:20 AM Subject: KR>dual sticks...finished! Hi Mark> See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcontrol.html#update . Chalk up > another three month delay. After seeing my aluminum welds, there might be > a stampede to buy life insurance for me... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3295C.C912FA20-- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:53:58 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>A way to install seat belt shoulder harness Message-ID: <003e01c3297b$61785c60$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3EDC2DA1.000008.01144@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Dan, Looks as though you guys have put a lot of thought in that design. Looks really good. Nice job. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html If you are interested in how someone else has installed their seat belt shoulder harness, come take a look. http://kr-builder.org/SeatBelts/index.html N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:55:50 EDT From: Crkr2s@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>gussets Message-ID: <136.1fd44606.2c0d6836@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Man, I love KRnet. Why? Because of the bits of information and helpful tips that can be glean from this site. This is a good example. Thanks Larry In a message dated 6/2/2003 8:56:32 PM Central Standard Time, flesner@midwest.net writes: > Take an old hacksaw blade and brake a section off each end of whatever > length you want. Place these two end pieces together and put a pop rivit > through the hole. After the pop rivet is set, use a hammer to pound the > rivet to a tightness that allows you to adjust the angle of the two pieces > but will hold that angle once set. I made one tool from a red blade and > another from a black blade. I used one color for horizontal angles and > the other for vertical angles so I wouldn't get confused when I got to > the saw. Simply open the tool to a greater angle that you will need and > slide it into the position the gusset will fill. When pushed into place it > will conform to the angle you need for the gusset. Now you can use > the tool to set the saw, sander, or whatever Chuck Wyatt Tehuacana, Texas crkr2s@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:01:02 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>gussets Message-ID: <000701c32973$fce21a40$53dc1818@computer> References: <136.1fd44606.2c0d6836@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Another trick that I used was. I built my fuselage sides without gussets, cleaned up the wood in prep for then tookt he wood on a 45 degree angle in order to get 5/8" on each side and draw the angle onto the wood, then I would cut it on the bandsaw. Of corse before I joined the 2 sides together it had the gussets in place. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:55 PM Subject: Re: KR>gussets > Man, I love KRnet. Why? Because of the bits of information and helpful tips > that can be glean from this site. This is a good example. Thanks Larry > > > In a message dated 6/2/2003 8:56:32 PM Central Standard Time, > flesner@midwest.net writes: > > > Take an old hacksaw blade and brake a section off each end of whatever > > length you want. Place these two end pieces together and put a pop rivit > > through the hole. After the pop rivet is set, use a hammer to pound the > > rivet to a tightness that allows you to adjust the angle of the two pieces > > but will hold that angle once set. I made one tool from a red blade and > > another from a black blade. I used one color for horizontal angles and > > the other for vertical angles so I wouldn't get confused when I got to > > the saw. Simply open the tool to a greater angle that you will need and > > slide it into the position the gusset will fill. When pushed into place it > > will conform to the angle you need for the gusset. Now you can use > > the tool to set the saw, sander, or whatever > > > Chuck Wyatt > Tehuacana, Texas > crkr2s@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:03:47 -0500 From: "Justin" To: Subject: KR>Cowling Message-ID: <001001c32974$5ed8d680$53dc1818@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 Did that cowling article ever make it to the list? Justin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:35:52 -0500 From: "robert glidden" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks Message-ID: <009001c32989$9e039880$0c00000a@glidden> References: <00f501c32848$468985c0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 How much weight are you adding in fuel weight?Thanks Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > Dana Overall has finished with Mark Jones' wingtank. The details are at > http://www.krnet.org/wingtank/ . If I ever have to build another one, it'll > be done this way. Total weight is something like 5 pounds, and you can > check it for leaks before it's installed. It's riveted and sealed, so > there's no welding involved. I think Dana said it holds 11.5 gallons with > airspace at the top. Maybe Mark can tell us more about it... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 01:33:47 EDT From: ECLarsen81@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>vert. card compass Message-ID: <129.2b524ee1.2c0d8d3b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Tim, Appreciate the offer, the project is backburner so I can concentrate on running our family airport. After being downsized after 14 years in my previous employ, wife leaving, divorce, ect. (typical of airplane nuts?), I've come full circle back to working on planes full time. I can be found spending work and liesure time full bore on customer aircraft, upkeep of the airport and the occasional needs of my Luscombe SL-8-115 (O-235 powered). I plan to get back to the Sonerai building in the near future. In the mean time, I enjoy reading the posts as a way to relax. I'm planning on going to the SAA fly-in this month as a weekend getaway. If anyone is planning to go, maybe we could get together there. Ed Larsen Ypsi, MI Larsen Airpark (43G) Belleville, MI Luscombe SL-8-115, N3535G ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:33:37 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks Message-ID: <000d01c329c3$f9c4ed60$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <00f501c32848$468985c0$1202a8c0@basement> <009001c32989$9e039880$0c00000a@glidden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 These tanks will hold 11.5 gallons each if filled to capacity. That is a total of 23 gallons at maximum capacity. The average weight of gasoline is 6.1 lbs per gallon, therefore both tanks filled to maximum capacity would carry, combined, a total weight of 140.3 pounds of gasoline. Now, let's say we burn 6.5 gallons (39.65 lbs) per hour, that would give us 3.5 hours of fuel. Now, let's say we cruise at 180mph, that gives us a range of 630 miles. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert glidden" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:35 PM Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > How much weight are you adding in fuel weight?Thanks Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Langford" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:15 AM > Subject: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > > > > Dana Overall has finished with Mark Jones' wingtank. The details are at > > http://www.krnet.org/wingtank/ . If I ever have to build another one, > it'll > > be done this way. Total weight is something like 5 pounds, and you can > > check it for leaks before it's installed. It's riveted and sealed, so > > there's no welding involved. I think Dana said it holds 11.5 gallons with > > airspace at the top. Maybe Mark can tell us more about it... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:08:26 -0500 From: asavant@notes.state.ne.us To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR> Static margin Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3EDBFDEF.000001.01144@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 Neutral point (NP) of the airplane can be thought as the aerodynamic center of the plane. It can be derived by some simple math and is dependent on the amount of lift (positive or negative) and the position of the lifting surfaces. So in other words, how big is your HS and wing and where they are. For stability the CG of the plane should be ahead of the NP. When the distance between the HS and the wing is small (short couple) like in the KR the NP is close to the surface with the higher lift (the wing) which leaves less static margin for the CG and hence the inherent pitch sensitivity. There are many solutions to this: Make the HS bigger and/or extend the tail? Put a heavier engine? But remember everything comes at a cost and any changes should be made with care fully addressing the effects that change will have. Just as a FYI, if you make the aft flying surface bigger than the front (canard design) then the NP moves a lot aft and your static margin increases. However, like I said before, everything comes at a cost. Back to the fox hole. Ameet Savant e-Business Consultant Information Management Services - State of Nebraska asavant@notes.state.ne.us "Dan Heath" > cc: Sent by: Subject: KR>Re: it's somethign to do with the elevators, krnet-bounces@myl ist.net 06/02/2003 08:46 PM Please respond to KR builders and pilots RE: Also, If so, what could I do to overcome this? (fit a bigger engine, put on more weight???) Daz, Actually it is not the elevator. It has to do with a characteristic that I have heard called "short coupled". This has been defined to me as the distance between a point on the main wing ( I don't know what it is called) and the same point on the horizontal stabilizer, and the relationship that, to the mean chord of the main wing. So you could have a plane that looked to have a short distance between the two wings and it not be short coupled because the mean chord of the main wing was very short. I hope someone with more aeronautical engineering knowledge than I have, will explain it better. You can offset the C of G by moving the engine out farther, or put on a monster engine. However, your results will vary. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:24:38 -0400 From: "Harold and Audrey Woods" To: Subject: KR>speed brakes. Message-ID: <00ef01c329db$e2e8f380$92ef6418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 I am throwing this out to every one. A belly board is a speed brake but = because of its location on the belly of the KR with retractable gear, it = has a size problem. How about speed brakes on both sides of the = fuselage near the tail? This has been done on jet fighter aircraft. OK you designers how about two types, 1) original builder. 2) a retro = fit for an existing fuselage. Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Can. audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:24:58 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks Message-ID: <000f01c329cb$260c3520$53dc1818@computer> References: <00f501c32848$468985c0$1202a8c0@basement> <009001c32989$9e039880$0c00000a@glidden> <000d01c329c3$f9c4ed60$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 How much did Dana charge to build those tanks for you? Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:33 AM Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > These tanks will hold 11.5 gallons each if filled to capacity. That is a > total of 23 gallons at maximum capacity. The average weight of gasoline is > 6.1 lbs per gallon, therefore both tanks filled to maximum capacity would > carry, combined, a total weight of 140.3 pounds of gasoline. Now, let's say > we burn 6.5 gallons (39.65 lbs) per hour, that would give us 3.5 hours of > fuel. Now, let's say we cruise at 180mph, that gives us a range of 630 > miles. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert glidden" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > > > > How much weight are you adding in fuel weight?Thanks Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Langford" > > To: "KR builders and pilots" > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:15 AM > > Subject: KR>Aluminum wing tanks > > > > > > > Dana Overall has finished with Mark Jones' wingtank. The details are at > > > http://www.krnet.org/wingtank/ . If I ever have to build another one, > > it'll > > > be done this way. Total weight is something like 5 pounds, and you can > > > check it for leaks before it's installed. It's riveted and sealed, so > > > there's no welding involved. I think Dana said it holds 11.5 gallons > with > > > airspace at the top. Maybe Mark can tell us more about it... > > > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > > > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:12:30 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>speed brakes. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ef01c329db$e2e8f380$92ef6418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 Yep, it was done on the Beech staggerwing with a rudder that could split. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Harold and Audrey Woods Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:25 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>speed brakes. I am throwing this out to every one. A belly board is a speed brake but because of its location on the belly of the KR with retractable gear, it has a size problem. How about speed brakes on both sides of the fuselage near the tail? This has been done on jet fighter aircraft. OK you designers how about two types, 1) original builder. 2) a retro fit for an existing fuselage. Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Can. audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:20:00 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Aluminum wing tanks Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000f01c329cb$260c3520$53dc1818@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 How much did Dana charge to build those tanks for you? Justin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That seems a bit rude. If you really want to know, why not ask Dana privately? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Justin Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 7:25 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum wing tanks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:49:50 -0500 From: To: "KR builders and flyers" Subject: KR>KR1004K, Pitch sensitivity, Anti servo Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 When I built my elevator, I set it up with two tabs, and linkage to provide anti-servo action. I have perceived from all the comments that pitch sensitivity is to some degree related to stick force and feedback. My arrangement (not flown) allows either tab, both tabs, or none to provide this response. I haven't said much about this because of the "not flown" factor, but I have seen it on others, such as the neat little two place built by the Micosukee Indians. I noticed that the KR1004K write-ups mention that Ken had included eelevator anti-servo in the design, but I didn't see much discussion in the flight test comments. My first airplane (Ron's 1) was basically neutrally stable, but not pitch sensitive. I flew it a long time, and it's still flying. If I had it back, I would build a bigger Stabilizer/Elevator. Well, it's been flying since '72, so maybe not too bad. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 55, Issue 1 ************************************