From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1 Date: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:02 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: New member, with questions..... (Brian Kraut) 2. Re: KR inspection checklist (Phil Matheson) 3. Re: Was, New member, with questions.....OT (Dana Overall) 4. KR2 for sale (feral) 5. Wet wings (Colin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:14:37 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>New member, with questions..... Message-ID: <3F03ADAD.60708@earthlink.net> References: <3F0393D0.40303@earthlink.net> <3F0395E1.000001.03208@Computer> <003e01c3410e$a8675e00$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Never thought of the tri gear. So I stand corrected. There are some very good reasons to put fuel in the outboard sections, but for a fixed tailwheel with a header tank there are some very good reasons to put it inboard. The RV people miss out on all this fun. They differentiate their planes by canopies, engine choice, and paint job. Mark Jones wrote: >Also, if you have Diehl tri-gear arrangement, there simply is no room in the >stubs for a satisfactory tank. That is why I will have a 12 gallon tank in >each outboard wing. Plus, I am running no header tank. > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI USA >E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com >Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at >http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Heath" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:33 PM >Subject: Re: KR>New member, with questions..... > > >There have been a lot of posts concerning this subject and one point that >made good sense to me, besides the one you mentioned, is that the weight of >the fuel will be carried by the outboard wing directly and not through the >wing attach fittings. > >N64KR > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > >See you in Red Oak - 2003 > >See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > >-------Original Message------- > >From: engalt@earthlink.net; KR builders and pilots >Date: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:21:16 PM >To: KR builders and pilots >Subject: Re: KR>New member, with questions..... > >I really don't know why anyone would put the fuel in the outboard >section of the wings. The only reason I can see is if you are still >using the retracts. My humble opinion is the in the inboard section is >the way to go with fixed gear. > >On the other hand, I think there was something on Mark's website about >having the fuel in the outboard sections to keep it further away from >you in a fire. I will admit that there is some logic to that. If you >have only wing tanks and need a lot of fuel in them that is also a reason. > >I have a 14 gallon header tank and I put about five gallons in each stub >wing when I took of the retracts. I have a transfer pump to pump from >the wing tanks into the header tank and a selector switch to select >which tank I am transfering from. I only have a fuel gauge in the >header tank. I really don't need to know in flight how much fuel I have >in the wing tanks because I will not be stupid enough to run the header >tank down past half empty (What the hell, call it half full. I am >feeling optomistic today.) before I start to transfer fuel and figure >out that there isn't any. > >Dan Heath wrote: > >>Go for it in the outboard wings if you like. It is really not un-common. >>Several people have put 0200 on their KR after they were completed. I doubt >>that they had to change the size of the firewall. >> >> >> >>Marty Roberts probably has the most experience with the 0200 and you should >>try to talk to him. You may find him at Oshkosh this year and most likely >>will find him at the Gathering in Red Oak. >> >> >> >>N64KR >> >> >> >>Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC >> >> >> >>DanRH@KR-Builder.org > >> >> >>See you in Red Oak - 2003 >> >> >> >>See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic >> >>See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org >> >> >> >>-------Original Message------- >> >> >> >>From: KR builders and pilots >> >>Date: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:37:33 PM >> >>To: KR builders and pilots >> >>Subject: Re: KR>New member, with questions..... >> >> >> >>Length. Keep in mind your CG. The heavier the engine the more weight you >> >>need aft to counter-act. Making the fuselage longer aft of the wing would >> >be > >>a soulution to just that. >> >> >> >>Make it wide enough to fit that huge O-200. Im not sure on any >> >>demensions but I know an O-200 is far bigger than their VW drawgings call >> >>for, and byfar heavier. >> >> >> >>To take up the slack in weight. Use thicker wood for your firewall and >> >>and doublers in your first 2 bays top and bottom. What I did was this, I >> >>think plans calls for a 5/8" thick firewall but I went 3/4, mostly because >> >>thats how thick my materal was. Also I put the doublers in the first 2 bays >> >>as plans call for, but put them on the bottom also. One end pulls and one >> >>pushes. >> >> >> >>Wing tanks: Plans for the KR2 call for the wing tanks to be in the >> >>outbord wings but I am yet to see any that go for that. Mostly everyone >> >puts > >>them in the wing walk area. Most are using aluminum tanks now which is the >> >>way to go consitering it is tested before you put it in and no chance of >> >>auto-gas eatting it up. >> >> >> >>Justin >> >>KR2S >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >>From: "Gordon Sorensen" >> >>To: >> >>Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:12 PM >> >>Subject: KR>New member, with questions..... >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Good Day All >>> >> >>>I recently purchased the plans for a KR-1. I am a little tall 6'2" >>> >>(large >> >>>upper body) so I want to do a couple of modifications and need a little >>> >>>advice. Sorry if these questions have been asked and answered before. I >>> >>>went through a lot of the old posts, but didn't see everything. >>> >> >>>1. I want to lengthen the fuselage a little. Is it better to widen >>> >>each >> >>>bay or add a bay? How wide can a bay be made (safely)? >>> >> >>>2. I want to use a 0-200 (my dad has one laying around). Using a >>> >>larger >> >>>engine, what modifications should be made to the fuselage? Firewall? >>> >> >>>3. Is anyone using inset hinges and weight balance on the flying >>> >>>surfaces? What methods are people using? >>> >> >>>4. Wing tanks, what kind of mounting are people using for tanks in the >>> >>>wings? Wet wings? >>> >> >>>Looking forward to any replies, contact me at: twotterdriver@hotmail.com >>> >> >>>Thanks for the help >>> >> >>>Gord Sorensen >>> >> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>> >>>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >>> >>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >>> >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >> >>._______________________________________________ >>see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >> > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >._______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:26:58 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR inspection checklist Message-ID: <000301c34151$4d32d800$1396dccb@Office> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 I would be very interested in having a look at you check. I'm making wing tanks at the moment. Do you ever get sick of glassing things? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:49:44 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Was, New member, with questions.....OT Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 >From: Brian Kraut >The RV people miss out on all this fun. They differentiate their planes by >canopies, engine choice, and paint job. Actually Brian, I just visited with a builder that made his entire RV-8 wing leading edge wet. He now has something like 85 gallons usable. Using an IO360 with CS prop he will have an endurance of 7+ hours at 200 mph. Way more than my 47 year old bladder and butt could stand. I know this is totally off topic but builders of 8s do away with the bubble canopy and make a turtle deck, add fairings, different home brew wheel pants, different cowlings........the list goes on. It's just that when 1-2 airplanes per week fly off the RV list, the run of the mill is norm. Someone just posted a very inexpensive marine fuel flow system on the RV list. I'm going to email the poster and talk with him about it and will post it later on the KRNet. BTW, paragliding at 9500' over the Swiss Alps and the Mattahorn along with my fuselage coming in yesterday.................................more on Fun Friday!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:32:56 -0400 From: "feral" To: Subject: KR>KR2 for sale Message-ID: <001b01c341c3$d2c8a9a0$db1dacd1@farrell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 2100 VW engine, retractable tri gear. Converted to single place, needs = certification. $7500. For addional info E mail farrell@netonecom.netFrom VANCE@claflinwildcats.com Thu Jul 03 08:05:18 2003 Received: from 63-245-139-250.kitusa.com ([63.245.139.250] helo=mail.claflinwildcats.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 19Y5eA-0005qY-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:05:18 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer ([]) by mail.claflinwildcats.com (Merak 5.7.4) with SMTP id EYB37074 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:04:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002801c341e1$88191ca0$0300a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "JIM VANCE" To: "krnet" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:04:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Adjustable Propeller for KR's X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have had very good success with a Warp Drive ground-adjustable = propeller on the Renegade that I completed in 2000. Since I'm using a = Rotax 582C two-cycle engine, I have to change the pitch from winter to = summer to achieve the proper takeoff rpm (temperature has a major effect = on horsepower from two-cycles). Almost all ground adjustable wood and composite propellers have straight = blades. This works well when there is less than a two-to-one ratio = between takeoff speed and cruise. When this ratio can be four-to-one on = a KR, the propeller becomes very inefficient at high cruise speeds and = reduces the maximum cruise for a given power setting. There has to be = twist in the propeller to maintain efficiency at cruise while achieving = a decent climb angle. That's why I bought an Ed Sterba prop for my = KR-2. He is the only propeller manufacturer that seems to understand = the unique requirements of our pocket rockets. I'll be able to tell you how it performs by the 2004 KR Gathering. Jim Vance = Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:06:02 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Wet wings Message-ID: <003e01c34174$9ed29b00$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Netters, I read an article in Sport Aviation a while back that described the good = and bad of wings tanks, specifically tip tanks, such as on the Celerity = homebuilt, and Cessna 310 production aircraft. Although one has to = correctly manage fuel usage, the article explained how the weight of = fuel being out board actually lowered the loads on the wing root, = spreading the flight loads more evenly across the spar. Though not as = pronounced as tip tanks, I can only guess that this must also be true of = the wet wings. Also, Mark pointed out that wetwings in the KR2 and S = would facilitate better fuel transfer due to the assistance of the wing = dihedral to fuel flow. I fly certificated aircraft everyday that have = integrated fuel cells and tanks, similar to the ones made by Dana, and I = have to say that the CG control, and flexibility is much better. In my = personal case, I will be adding an under seat tank of approximately 5 = gallons useable, that will refill the header tank prior to landing and = will have an inexpensive sending unit /gauge to know volume. Just my = opinion...=20 Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 03 08:11:16 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.39]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Y5jv-0005xd-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:11:15 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h63FAJnt017109 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004701c34175$36333310$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:10:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Control surface testing X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I asked this question of Dan and then realized maybe some other builders = would benefit from the answer. Has anyone performed control surface testing for G loads/strength? I = have changed the elevator control to pushtube and want to test its = integrity before getting airborne. Since I didn't build these myself, I = also want to test the others. Better to fail on the ground then = airborne, right? Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 03 08:39:53 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.43]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Y6Bd-0006Ge-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:39:53 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h63FcvqO011151 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006201c34179$35da8ef0$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:38:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Carb fuel pressure X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Netters, Does anyone know how much fuel pressure to run if adding an electric = fuel pump to a gravity flow setup for takeoffs and climbs, go-around = etc... I have an 1835VW with Ellison carb, gravity flow. I want to add = an electric pump to make sure during initial climbout, and on approach = to landing/possible go-around I am protected against fuel starvation. Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From DanRH@alltel.net Thu Jul 03 10:27:50 2003 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Y7s6-0009At-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:27:50 -0700 Received: from Computer ([151.213.94.128]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20030703172655.RMGE26683.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:26:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F04675E.000001.04032@Computer> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:26:54 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <006201c34179$35da8ef0$05462141@Beverly> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>Carb fuel pressure Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Colin,=0D =0D If you put a Facet in line, it will work well with an Ellison and an 1835= =2E=20 That is exactly the set up that I had on my first KR. However, I ran the pump all the time. I did turn it off to see if it ran OK on flow through gravity and it did. Check it out and make sure you are satisfied with th= e results. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:39:24 AM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: KR>Carb fuel pressure=0D =0D Netters,=0D Does anyone know how much fuel pressure to run if adding an electric fuel pump to a gravity flow setup for takeoffs and climbs, go-around etc... I have an 1835VW with Ellison carb, gravity flow. I want to add an electric pump to make sure during initial climbout, and on approach to landing/possible go-around I am protected against fuel starvation.=0D Colin Rainey KR2(td)=0D crainey1@cfl.rr.com=0D Sanford, Florida=0D FLY SAFE!!!!_______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2E------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1 ************************************