From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 88, Issue 1 Date: Sunday, July 06, 2003 11:08 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: (no subject) 2. Kit planes KR-360 (larry flesner) 3. Comparison between the -1 and -2 (Gordon Sorensen) 4. Re: Beer and Brats at Oshkosh (Mark Jones) 5. Re: RE: 2 strokes (Brian Kraut) 6. Airport woes (Brian Kraut) 7. Re: Kit planes KR-360 (Mark Jones) 8. Re: Kit planes KR-360 (Brian Kraut) 9. Re: Kit planes KR-360 (Mark Langford) 10. Kit planes KR-360 (larry flesner) 11. Re: Kit planes KR-360 (Mark Jones) 12. Fw: KR>Virus protection (Harold Woods) 13. Subaru Power (Gavin Donohoe) 14. Test Plus 15. Photo of the Week (Mark Jones) 16. Re: Comparison between the -1 and -2 (gleone) 17. Re: Subaru Power (larry flesner) 18. Comparison between the -1 and -2 (larry flesner) 19. Re: Subaru Power 20. Re: Subaru Power (Mark Langford) 21. KR100 for sale on ebay (Rick Wilson) 22. Re: Subaru Power 23. Re: Subaru Power (Mark Langford) 24. Re: Subaru Power (Mark Langford) 25. Test (Rick Wilson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:10:37 EDT From: Aeroeng39@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <124.23b731dc.2c3898cd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 I recently read about a guy in Arizona looking for other Arizonans. But I lost the mail on it. So I think your idea is great. I am Peter Sanchez From: Mesa Arizona Building: Kr2s Powered by: Corvair stock 110 Status: I currently have entire fuselage completes plus spars. BUT, Big BUT. I followed original plans and want my better half to fit with me. Because of this, I am starting all over. Going to widen 4 inches at least and have been saving my AS5046 wing templates for this conversion. I have the RR prefab Turtle deck Canopy and frwrd fuse which I intend to use by splitting and widening. Basically, dumping 3 years of stolen hours to widen and add all the new goodies to make a better plane than what I've got currently to include the outer wing tanks. PS. Anyone reading plane and pilot, there's an old article concerning outer fuel tanks on the piper 235 which I enjoy flying. Goes into good detail about the advantages of the weight of fuel being carried by the outer portion of the wing. Outer wing lift factors sustain its own weight. This as been discussed in other mails read. This does alleviate pressures on the center sections. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:33:41 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Netters, I got my current issue of Kit Planes in the mail today and it has an article about the KR-360. This is the same aircraft that showed up at last years Gathering but could only stay for a short time. The builder/pilot is from one of the east coast states. Last of the filler drying/curing on right wing then it's more primer, sand , and off to the airport to paint. Hope to move entire project to the paint booth next week. Right now it's off to the airport to haul some jumpers for a local 4th of July celebration. I really enjoy "diver dumping" ! It's the only time you can climb to 10,000 feet, open the door and yell "O.K. , EVERYBODY OUT !!!!" :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 23:20:11 +0000 From: "Gordon Sorensen" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Comparison between the -1 and -2 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Hi All Just wondering about some of the differences bewtween the -1 and -2. 1. What size are the fuselage longerons (5/8" or larger?) 2. How thick is the plywood on the fuselage and firewall? 3. Distance between the spars? (Is the -1 wing the same as the -2?) Thanks Gord Sorensen Sacramento, CA _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 19:17:29 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Re: Beer and Brats at Oshkosh Message-ID: <00ab01c34353$fca627c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 As Dana said....I will supply the beer and brats for a grill out at Oshkosh. This will be Wednesday afternoon (7-30) and evening, which is also the day of the KR forum presented by Jim Faughn and Mark Langford at 2:30 at the 10 US TOOL Pavilion. I would greatly appreciate knowing if you are attending or not so I can determine how much beer and brats to buy. Some of you other guys will have to jump in and provide the grill, charcoal, chips pickles, soda (but who wants that) etc. Again, PLEASE let us know if you plan on being there. Dana will let us all know where on the Oshkosh grounds we will do this. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" > As a side note, how many people were at last years Oshkosh KR forum? I > missed it while talking with Dynon but need to plan on beer for this > year...........MARK (at least I got the name right) is buying brats, leiu of > paying for aluminum tanks. Gang, the party is on at Oshkosh for Weds. > afternoon and evening. Like the ol saying, "Weather's > beautiful..............wish you were too". Be there, if you want to faces > to names off the KRNet, just bring your best story.........yea, that's it > story. > > Chime in here folks so we can do some planning. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 20:49:59 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>RE: 2 strokes Message-ID: <3F077237.8050907@earthlink.net> References: <9c.33151f78.2c36f3ea@aol.com> <002301c342ec$c69b7de0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Actually, Rotax makes engines for snowmobiles and other vehicles. They do make engines specificaly for aircraft but I imagine that they share a lot of the same parts as their other engines. Their website is at http://www.rotax.bombardier.com/index_e.htm Robert Stone wrote: >Jim, > I don't understand how your response relates to my comment about >aircraft engines being safer than auto engines in aircraft since all Rotax >designs that I am aware of are designed specifically for aircraft. As a >mater of fact one of them, the 912 is now a certified aircraft engine in the >United States. > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX >rstone4@hot.rr.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 10:14 AM >Subject: Re: KR>RE: 2 strokes > > >>In a message dated 7/4/03 8:00:46 AM Mountain Daylight Time, >>rstone4@hot.rr.com writes: >> >><< I have never agreed that any engine designed for surface vehicles is >> >all > >>that safe in an aircraft but for those who just cannot afford to use an >>aircraft engine like continental, or Lycoming an out board motor would be >> >the best > >>alternative. >> >> >> FWIW... Rotax makes a very good line of 2-stroke >> engines designed for aircraft use. Most of the ultralights >> use their engines. My wife and I flew our Challenger II >> from western SD to OSH last year... nary a burp out of >> the Rotax 503. That being said, most of us would prefer >> to use a 4-stroke but with weight being a big consideration, >> we go with the 2-strokes. I have also surprised myself at >> how comfortable I've become flying ahead of my Rotax >> (it's a pusher) over the past 3 years and 362 hours. :-) >> >> Jim Hayward >> Rapid City, SD >> >>_______________________________________________ >>see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >> > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:06:07 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Airport woes Message-ID: <3F0775FF.5040704@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 It is almost time to make my neighbors very happy and move my plane to the airport. I went to the airport today to reserve a tiedown spot for August 1, but the spots that were $50 when I checked six months ago are now $75. I did find something on the other side of the airport for $60 a month, but they do maintenance there and they won't allow me to even remove my cowl on the ramp. I won't even be allowed to wash the plane on the ramp soon because the city is building a washing area and I will need to go there and pay to use it. I am checking with some of the hanger owners to see if I can get some kind of day rental rate so I can do maintenance. Can anyone give me some idea on how often I can expect to have to work on something if I am flying four or five hours every weekend? I am going to have a cover made to keep the UV off the plane and keep it dry. Is there anyone else that doesn't keep their KR in a hanger? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:09:26 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <00d901c3435b$3ef5ffe0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Is that the July issue? I can not seem to find the article. Page? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" > > Netters, > > I got my current issue of Kit Planes in the mail today and it > has an article about the KR-360. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:12:09 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <3F077769.8080004@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Is that a KR with an O-360? larry flesner wrote: > >Netters, > >I got my current issue of Kit Planes in the mail today and it >has an article about the KR-360. This is the same aircraft >that showed up at last years Gathering but could only stay >for a short time. The builder/pilot is from one of the east >coast states. > >Last of the filler drying/curing on right wing then it's more primer, sand >, and off to the airport to paint. Hope to move entire project >to the paint booth next week. Right now it's off to the airport >to haul some jumpers for a local 4th of July celebration. >I really enjoy "diver dumping" ! It's the only time you can climb to >10,000 feet, open the door and yell "O.K. , EVERYBODY OUT !!!!" :-) > >Larry Flesner > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:14:11 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <002b01c3435b$e8759210$1202a8c0@basement> References: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> <3F077769.8080004@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Brian Kraut wrote: > Is that a KR with an O-360? Yep. There are a lot of photos at the Red Oak 2002 site, at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/redoak2002/ . Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:36:05 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030705213605.00820190@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <00d901c3435b$3ef5ffe0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 >Is that the July issue? I can not seem to find the article. Page? >Mark Jones (N886MJ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kitplanes, August issue , page 46 , "Making it BIG". Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:10:53 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Kit planes KR-360 Message-ID: <00f501c3436c$36091640$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20030705163341.00823490@pop.midwest.net> <3.0.6.32.20030705213605.00820190@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Have not received the issue yet....thanks Larry. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: KR>Kit planes KR-360 > >Is that the July issue? I can not seem to find the article. Page? > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Kitplanes, August issue , page 46 , "Making it BIG". > > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 23:11:39 -0400 From: "Harold Woods" To: Subject: Fw: KR>Virus protection Message-ID: <003001c3436c$51504590$08ee6418@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: KR>Virus protection > Sometime back someone posted access to a FREE virus protection > program.....AVO....or somthing like that. I wish he would post that URL again The free antivirus program that you are referring to is "AVG". Just pop the letters AVG into your brouser, look for the free edition, download it. It is excellent. Set it to update it's self every day or so and you are well protected.. There is no reason why anyone should become infected with a worm or bugbear virus. Harold Woods. Orillia,ON. Canada. L3V2G6 haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:16:05 +1000 From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: Subject: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <010601c343b0$08073120$0a4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 Has anybody tried Subaru power and was it successful?? What kind of horsepower and performance did you get ??? Does the extra weight over aircooled engines affect overall performance? Thanks=20 Gavin=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 6/30/03From n56ml@hiwaay.net Sun Jul 06 05:53:51 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Z91b-00066e-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:53:51 -0700 Received: from basement (user-24-214-88-148.knology.net [24.214.88.148]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h66Cr1gl941654 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <004801c343bd$a0c91b00$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: Subject: Re: KR>Comparison between the -1 and -2 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:53:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Gord Sorensen wrote: > Just wondering about some of the differences bewtween the -1 and -2. > 1. What size are the fuselage longerons (5/8" or larger?) > 2. How thick is the plywood on the fuselage and firewall? > 3. Distance between the spars? (Is the -1 wing the same as the -2?) I was hoping that somebody that actually knew what they were talking about would answer this, but I'll give it a shot, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure the truth will eventually come out. I'm pretty sure the -1 and the -2 use exactly the same 5/8" square spruce for fuselage structure, as well as plywood thickness, which is 3/32 for fuselage and quarter inch for firewall. The wings are very similar, if not exactly identical. Looking at the RR website at http://www.fly-kr.com/kr1.htm and http://www.fly-kr.com/kr2.htm, you can see that the KR-2 wing span is almost 4 feet longer and 18 square feet larger, so something's different somewhere. Certainly, if you had a pile of wood to build a KR-1 wing, you wouldn't have anything left over if you decided to build a -2 wing instead. But like I said, I don't even OWN a set of KR-1 plans, although I've heard they're not much to look at. If somebody would send me their set, I'd love to take a look at them, and then promptly return them. Then I'll know how to answer this question the next time around... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:23:11 EDT From: AviationMech@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Test Plus Message-ID: <51.31bfb4a8.2c397cbf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Lately I have responded to two threads and have not seen them posted. This is a test. Airport move. Moving to he airport is usually a continuation of the building process where you make tests, and final adjustments and finally conduct your flight tests and make even more adjustments. Make sure your Landlord at the airport will allow all of this before you move in. Orma AKA AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com/aviationmech also see me at www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 10:23:31 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>Photo of the Week Message-ID: <001201c343d2$8f1950e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 Updated the Photo of the Week on my web site a few minutes ago.=20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:22:50 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: Re: KR>Comparison between the -1 and -2 Message-ID: <3F083ECA.000007.02920@DDMWDD11> References: <004801c343bd$a0c91b00$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Having both sets of plans, here's the difference: =0D The KR-1 wing span is 17' 8" versus 20' for the KR-2. =0D Both use 5/8 longerons.=0D Firewall is 1/4.=0D Distance between spars: Depends on when your plans were produced. I have two sets of KR-1 plans and there is a difference between the two sets. I have to find the KR-2 plans (blueprints) to answer the last question so I= 'll hold off on those measurements for now.=0D =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Sunday, July 06, 2003 6:54:52 AM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR>Comparison between the -1 and -2=0D =0D Gord Sorensen wrote:=0D =0D > Just wondering about some of the differences between the -1 and -2.=0D > 1. What size are the fuselage longerons (5/8" or larger?)=0D > 2. How thick is the plywood on the fuselage and firewall?=0D > 3. Distance between the spars? (Is the -1 wing the same as the -2?)=0D =0D I was hoping that somebody that actually knew what they were talking abou= t=0D would answer this, but I'll give it a shot, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure th= e=0D truth will eventually come out.=0D =0D I'm pretty sure the -1 and the -2 use exactly the same 5/8" square spruce= =0D for fuselage structure, as well as plywood thickness, which is 3/32 for=0D fuselage and quarter inch for firewall. The wings are very similar, if no= t=0D exactly identical. Looking at the RR website at=0D http://www.fly-kr.com/kr1.htm and http://www.fly-kr.com/kr2.htm, you can = see=0D that the KR-2 wing span is almost 4 feet longer and 18 square feet larger= ,=0D so something's different somewhere. Certainly, if you had a pile of wood = to=0D build a KR-1 wing, you wouldn't have anything left over if you decided to= =0D build a -2 wing instead.=0D =0D But like I said, I don't even OWN a set of KR-1 plans, although I've hear= d=0D they're not much to look at. If somebody would send me their set, I'd lov= e=0D to take a look at them, and then promptly return them. Then I'll know how= =0D to answer this question the next time around...=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL=0D N56ML "at" hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:38:58 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030706103858.007cd2f0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <010601c343b0$08073120$0a4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 >Has anybody tried Subaru power and was it successful?? >What kind of horsepower and performance did you get ??? >Does the extra weight over aircooled engines affect overall performance? >Gavin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There are a number of Subaru installs flying in lots of different types of aircraft and for the most part they seem to perform o.k. The number of KR's flying with Sub's that I've seen is limited. The one that comes to mind is Les Palmer from Dallas. He has a single place stretched KR that is heavy (850lbs empty) so it's probably not the best example. I was not impressed with the performance he was getting and I guess he wasn't either. He finally installed the larger Subaru ( EJ-22 ? ) to get the performance he wanted. I'm sure there are other builders flying Sub's that are happy with them. Engine builders claim 100 hp but I'm not convinced. My UNEDUCATED GUESS would say somewhere between 80 and 100 hp and I'm sure they are like any other engine where getting the right prop is critical. Yes, the extra weight will hurt performance regardless where if comes from. When I first heard of the Subaru's I was quite excited. That excitement has vanished over the years. To me the complexity of the install doesn't buy you much. You have electronic ignition ,cooling systems, and cowls with unique airflow patterns to engineer to name a few. If you expect your finished KR to be light the VW's should work just fine. For more "kick" you could go with a Type IV with PSRU. The cheapest HP you could probably install is the Corvair. The most proven would be the 0-200 or a small Lyco, like the 0-235. Remember, this is all strictly my OPINION based on the 14 or so years exposure to the KR and having attended every Gathering since 1990. I'm sure others have different opinions Larry Flesne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:39:16 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Comparison between the -1 and -2 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030706103916.007cae90@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <004801c343bd$a0c91b00$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 >Gord Sorensen wrote: >> Just wondering about some of the differences bewtween the -1 and -2. >> 1. What size are the fuselage longerons (5/8" or larger?) >> 2. How thick is the plywood on the fuselage and firewall? >> 3. Distance between the spars? (Is the -1 wing the same as the -2?) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Gord, In an eariler post I suggested you consider downsizing a KR2 instead of building up a KR 1 for an 0-200. I'll add a few thoughts. Like Mark L. , I've not seen the KR 1 plans but I think the materials used are basiclly the same. However, please consider the following. - You said you are 6'2" with a large upper body. The KR1 is a SMALL airplane. - The KR1 was engineered for a VW engine of 30 to 50 hp. The KR2 is a proven design using the 0-200 and the 2's was engineered with the 0-200 as a recommended engine. - In addition to changes to the structure for larger engines, more weight, etc., I believe the 2's increased the size of the horizontal tail surfaces for improved handling. - To me it would be MUCH easier to downsize a KR2 then engineer up a KR1 and I'd think you'd get equal or better results. - If I were building it to fit me (6'4"-200 lbs) I'd be inclined to add maybe 2" to 4" forward of the forward spar to the firewall and maybe the same aft. I'd recline the seat at a good angle, use maybe the forward 2/3's of a KR1 bubble canopy and fair it nicely into a streamlined turtledeck. A "side stick" setup would be nice. Then I'd drop one of the three Corvair engines I have setting in my hangar on the nose and I'd have me a "KR Rocket". Is there a speed limit below 10,000 feet of 250 knots?!! :-) To restate my eariler conclusion, IF IT WERE ME, and I was looking for a single place airplane with lots of SPEED and good handling, I'd narrow a KR 2 to a comfortable single place, keep approx.the same fuselage length as a standard KR2, cut down the wing span two or three feet, and incorporate all of the 2's changes along with the new airfoil. You could weight your nearly completed airframe to determine the best location for the engine and then build the cowl. Be advised, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, so use your best judgement. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:08:02 EDT From: Ronevogt@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Les Palmer has achieved good performance with his EJ-22. The numbers that he has quoted me are as follows: 1,850 fpm climb rate, 170 mph max level speed and 150 mph cruise. My KR-2s is almost ready to fly. It is equipped with an ej-22 with a Les Palmer built reduction unit and prop. Since my airplane is lighter than his, I am expecting even better performance. I will know soon, and I will let everyone know what numbers I come up with. Auto engine conversion vs certified aircraft power seems to be a hot topic in homebuilts these days. There is a lot to be said on both sides of the issue. Before one makes up his mind, I think it would be a good idea to read Richard Finch's Book on the topic. But, if you are using a VW or Corvair engine, you are actually in the auto conversion camp already. Even though the Subaru EJ-22 is heavier and there are engineering issues to be dealt with in order to achieve a workable engine, it is my opinion that it is a quantum leap over the VW or Corvair. The main reasons I feel this way are due to the increased reliability and wt to power ratio offered by EFI. I would be very interested in hearing any and all comments on this issue. Ronevogt@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:20:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <006c01c343da$8e6f0d80$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 Ronevogt@aol.com wrote: .>Even though the Subaru > EJ-22 is heavier and there are engineering issues to be dealt with in order to > achieve a workable engine, it is my opinion that it is a quantum leap over the > VW or Corvair. The main reasons I feel this way are due to the increased > reliability and wt to power ratio offered by EFI. I'd be interested to see a list of the Corvair engines that have failed in some way that led to your opinion that they are somehow unreliable. Also, I've looked at EFI pretty hard, and determined that the multiple modes of failure that it introduces, not to mention the extra weight, far offsets any increase in performance, or the undeniable benefit of eliminating carb ice problems, but that's just my opinion... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:26:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Wilson To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>KR100 for sale on ebay Message-ID: <20030706162618.91370.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 21 Hi, If anyone is interested, KR100 is for sale on ebay. The current bid is $7000.00. From the picture on ebay it looks to be in great shape. The item # is 2422542012. Thanks, Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:36:56 EDT From: Ronevogt@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <1ee.cae31d9.2c39aa28@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 22 I didn't say that Corvair engines are unreliable. I have no idea how many have failed while being used in aircraft. However, RFI has installed over 400 Subaru EJ-22 engines in auto gyros over the past several years. The single failure that has occurred happened on an engine that had experienced a prop strike. I think that is a pretty good record. The issue of failure modes can be addressed by pointing out the fact that the EFI computer has a memory function that enables the engine to continue running by utilizing the last sensor setting before the failure occurred. In addition to that, by mounting a code light on the instrument panel, the computer immediately notifies the pilot what sensor or component has failed. In other words, it troubleshoots itself. How many certified aircraft engines, (or VW or Corvair engines), can do that? In my opinion, the increase in weight is more than offset by the increase in power. By beefing up the engine mount and using Deihl gear and longer wings, I think a heavier KR with a more modern engine is an improvement. RV ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:58:39 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <008401c343df$d9730e30$1202a8c0@basement> References: <006c01c343da$8e6f0d80$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 23 RV wrote: >I didn't say that Corvair engines are unreliable. I have no idea how many have failed while being used in aircraft. < I guess you could have read the sentence "The main reasons I feel this way are due to the increased reliability and wt to power ratio offered by EFI", two different ways. I took it one way, and you meant the other. The thing about Soobs that worry me (other than the weight) are: 1) PSRU. One more mode of failure. You're flying behind something that's probably had very little engineering or testing. And even if it was "engineered", that's still some guy's best guess. Engines are just plain too complicated a system to accurately model and then be able to predict with any accuracy the torsional characteristics of the system, not to mention that it changes with every different prop combination that's tried. Torsional vibration is a dicey subject even for the "big boys". Designing a PSRU and building it at home is a roll of the dice until somebody's got a whole lot of hours on one. 2) Water. Another mode of failure. Spring a leak from any one of 8 or 10 places and you are going down shortly. This can't happen with air-cooling, period. 3) EFI. Any one of several wires can develop a bad connection and your engine might just quit instantly, regardless of how smart the computer, or how good it's memory is. The reliabilty that Soob cars enjoy is no longer a guarantee, now that you've ripped the whole thing out of a car and spliced it all back together in your plane. And they have to have electrical power to work at all. This is not an issue with a carburetor. You could argue that a chunk of debris could kill a carb, but that same chunk would kill the EFI too. I'm not arguing with you. Just call it a "debate". I'm unconvinced, and so are you, so we're even. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm finally coming around to the concept of "keep it simple, and fly SOONER"... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:02:33 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Subaru Power Message-ID: <008801c343e0$64db3a10$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 24 Oh, I forgot one. 4) Fuel under high pressure. This is never a good thing... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:04:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Wilson To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Test Message-ID: <20030706180404.7393.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 25 This is a test. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 88, Issue 1 ************************************