From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 104, Issue 1 Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:02 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Look Ma.......no clecos!! (Scott Cable) 2. Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe? (Dan Heath) 3. Re: Oshkosh (chris gardiner) 4. Re: Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe? (Mark Langford) 5. Re: Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe? (Dan Heath) 6. Re: Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts totheairframe... (Dan Heath) 7. Re: Re: My wife told........ (Mark Jones) 8. Re: Re: My wife told........ (Mark Langford) 9. How do I do that - What would Langford do. (ROBERT COOPER) 10. Re: Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts totheairframe... (Dana Overall) 11. Re: Look Ma.......no clecos!!-bolt sizes (Dana Overall) 12. Re: Oshkosh (Dana Overall) 13. Re: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe... (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Look Ma.......no clecos!! Message-ID: <20030721231745.25134.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 I'm kinda curious abou something Dana, What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe? --- Dana Overall wrote: You > can see the seatbelt brackets sticking up through > the floor. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/fri2.jpg > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:37:06 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe? Message-ID: <3F1C7922.000007.03484@Computer> References: <20030721231745.25134.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 I was just thinking about this the other day. What I was thinking is th= at Dana doesn't have to think about what size bolts or what kind of bracket = to make or where to put it, it is already figured out and all the brackets a= nd bolts and other stuff are ready for him to buy. Ain't it great?=0D =0D It is simple things like that, that take all the time to build a KR. I l= ove the KR, but that RV sure must be a pleasure to build.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:18:40 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR>Look Ma.......no clecos!!=0D =0D I'm kinda curious abou something Dana,=0D What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to=0D the airframe?=0D =0D --- Dana Overall wrote:=0D =0D You=0D > can see the seatbelt brackets sticking up through=0D > the floor.=0D > http://rvflying.tripod.com/fri2.jpg=0D =0D =0D >=0D >=0D _________________________________________________________________=0D > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months=0D > FREE*=0D > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail=0D >=0D >=0D > _______________________________________________=0D > see KRnet list details at=0D http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =0D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0D Scott Cable=0D KR-2S # 735=0D Linden, MI=0D s2cable1@yahoo.com=0D =0D __________________________________=0D Do you Yahoo!?=0D SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!=0D http://sbc.yahoo.com=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom AviationMech@aol.com Mon Jul 21 16:41:36 2003 Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.101]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19ekHf-000KkF-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:41:35 -0700 Received: from AviationMech@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.154.21d1b161 (4004) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:41:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AviationMech@aol.com Message-ID: <154.21d1b161.2c4dd421@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:41:21 EDT Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe... To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: In a message dated 7/21/2003 7:37:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DanRH@AllTel.net writes: > a pleasure to build It's the price of the Kit ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:49:57 -0400 From: chris gardiner To: KR builders and pilots Cc: Owen Macpherson Subject: Re: KR>Oshkosh Message-ID: <3F1C7C25.2020300@attcanada.ca> References: <000001c34b44$2c97a1a0$ae476ad8@jfaughn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Thanks for the update , Jim. Owen and I are still planning for a Sunday arrival . Now that we have some friends taking some campgear , we can probably park in the homebuilt show plane area , at least. Will try for the autoengine conversion area if possible . See you at OSH BTW: When is the beer and brats night , Dana ? Jim Faughn wrote: >I'm heading off tomorrow at noon for a quick trip to San Francisco but >wanted to update you on Oshkosh. I'll be flying in on either Sunday >(preferable) or Monday and all KR's that aren't camping should try to >park in the automotive engine area. I am working on updating the >presentation for Forum, with Mark's help, and have some pretty exciting >video I will be using for talking through the landing presentation. This >last Sunday, I took a friend who is in the video business (like Video >Bob) and he went for a 1st flight in my KR to the Cape Girardeau >airshow. The entire purpose was to get a video that showed what it was >like in the phases of landing a KR. We just finished editing the video >and it exceeds my expectations. For those that have never flown in a KR, >this is as real as it gets. We did a really good landing and then on the >way back, I let him know we were going to do a botched approach that we >would have to correct for. This required a good slip and a bit of a >bounce that was all captured out of the canopy. Pretty good friend to do >this with me! Anyway besides the landing sequences, you will also see >the KR up close and personal with an F-18, F16 and a Blackhawk >helicopter .... on the ground. They also gave me permission to make >closed traffic, a low approach and an abrupt vertical move to leave the >area which is also on tape. This video will be shown at our talk at >Oshkosh. By the way, I got to see several KR people which was why I went >in the first place. Thanks for the hospitality Mike and Larry. For those >that aren't going, you will have to wait. My friend, also named Bob, has >volunteered, once I'm back, to finish the edit with my narration of the >landings and then encode it for delivery on the Web. Hopefully by late >August. > >Take care and I hope to see everyone at Oshkosh. > >Jim >N891JF > >Jim Faughn >4323D Laclede Ave. >St. Louis, MO 63108 >(314)652-7659 >Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net >Web Site http://jfaughn.com > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:24:32 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to the airframe? Message-ID: <031101c34ff0$01613900$1202a8c0@basement> References: <20030721231745.25134.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <3F1C7922.000007.03484@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Dan wrote: > I was just thinking about this the other day. What I was thinking is that > Dana doesn't have to think about what size bolts or what kind of bracket to > make or where to put it, it is already figured out and all the brackets and > bolts and other stuff are ready for him to buy. No, it's not just figured out, they're in the kit, on the shelf behind him, in a plastic bag, labeled, and called out on the drawing, direct from the factory!!!!!! RV's make a lot of sense. There's a reason why they are far and away the most popular kit, and why I'm still planning on building an RV10 next, by order of the "high command"... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:44:46 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe? Message-ID: <3F1C970E.00000B.03484@Computer> References: <031101c34ff0$01613900$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 And If I had the money and another plane in me, I would do the same, even against the order of the high command. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:24:03 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe?=0D =0D Dan wrote:=0D =0D > I was just thinking about this the other day. What I was thinking is th= at=0D > Dana doesn't have to think about what size bolts or what kind of bracke= t=0D to=0D > make or where to put it, it is already figured out and all the brackets= =0D and=0D > bolts and other stuff are ready for him to buy.=0D =0D No, it's not just figured out, they're in the kit, on the shelf behind hi= m,=0D in a plastic bag, labeled, and called out on the drawing, direct from the= =0D factory!!!!!!=0D =0D RV's make a lot of sense. There's a reason why they are far and away the=0D most popular kit, and why I'm still planning on building an RV10 next, by= =0D order of the "high command"...=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL=0D N56ML "at" hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom n56ml@hiwaay.net Mon Jul 21 18:45:41 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19emDl-000LHw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:45:41 -0700 Received: from basement (user-24-214-88-148.knology.net [24.214.88.148]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M1jYQC1009816 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:45:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <032501c34ff3$11bca9d0$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <154.21d1b161.2c4dd421@aol.com> Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe... Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:46:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: > It's the price of the Kit Don't forget the price of your time. I "moonlight" as a computer system administrator for a small company about 3 miles from my house, keeping their server and computers running and backed up. They pay me $50 an hour for my time, which is about $33 an hour by the time Uncle Sam gets done with me. If you consider that I have 4100 hours into my KR so far, I already have over $135,000 in it, not counting material! Maybe that's not the way most people view it, but it's the way I look at it. Of course, really, Dana would say that I have to consider the value of money 9 years ago when I started, and my salary at my regular job back then, and average it all out, and he's right, but you get the picture. The time is worth a lot of money that I could have earned, if I'd wanted to spend more time at work rather than build an airplane. Now if you're retired, and do it for the pleasure and to keep your mind sharp, that's a whole 'nuther story, assuming of course, that you finish the thing before you actually lose your medical. Don't get me wrong, I'm not begrudging this process at all, and am, in fact, enjoying the process, but I don't see the RV as being all that high priced when all things are considered. Like a lot of things in life, it's a tradeoff. I have to admit that when I started my KR, I didn't really think I could afford it, and now 9 years later, I'm already saving money for an RV-10 so I can haul the kids around. Like my father says, "people spend their money on whatever they want to spend it on". One of the things I do at work (and at home, on KRnet) is spend a lot of my time greasing the skids and making life easier for those that follow. That means I don't really get a lot done personally, but it does mean that I save a lot of other people's time. That gives me a lot of satisfaction, knowing that I turned a little of my time into saving a lot of time for others. It's kind of like multiplying my time by a large factor, which makes me feel worth a little more than I really am. That's exactly what Van is doing for RV builders, on a grand scale, and is why he's selling them like hotcakes... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:56:00 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts totheairframe... Message-ID: <3F1C99B0.000001.03308@Computer> References: <032501c34ff3$11bca9d0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 I know a guy who retired and was thinking of building a plane back when I was working on my first KR. He decided on an RV6. He is now just about = to finish his 4th RV, which I think is an RV9a. He says that he is going to keep this one.=0D =0D And, Mark, you are right about the money for the kit, and if you could pu= t a Corvair in one, it would not come out to be any more than the KR, by the time you add up all the stuff and the things that you had to do over. I really think that it is the expense of the engine that really makes it a = lot more. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:45:59 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts totheairframe...=0D =0D > It's the price of the Kit=0D =0D Don't forget the price of your time. I "moonlight" as a computer system=0D administrator for a small company about 3 miles from my house, keeping th= eir=0D server and computers running and backed up. They pay me $50 an hour for m= y=0D time, which is about $33 an hour by the time Uncle Sam gets done with me.= =0D If you consider that I have 4100 hours into my KR so far, I already have=0D over $135,000 in it, not counting material! Maybe that's not the way most= =0D people view it, but it's the way I look at it. Of course, really, Dana=0D would say that I have to consider the value of money 9 years ago when I=0D started, and my salary at my regular job back then, and average it all ou= t,=0D and he's right, but you get the picture. The time is worth a lot of money= =0D that I could have earned, if I'd wanted to spend more time at work rather= =0D than build an airplane.=0D =0D Now if you're retired, and do it for the pleasure and to keep your mind=0D sharp, that's a whole 'nuther story, assuming of course, that you finish = the=0D thing before you actually lose your medical. Don't get me wrong, I'm not=0D begrudging this process at all, and am, in fact, enjoying the process, bu= t I=0D don't see the RV as being all that high priced when all things are=0D considered. Like a lot of things in life, it's a tradeoff. I have to admi= t=0D that when I started my KR, I didn't really think I could afford it, and n= ow=0D 9 years later, I'm already saving money for an RV-10 so I can haul the ki= ds=0D around. Like my father says, "people spend their money on whatever they=0D want to spend it on".=0D =0D One of the things I do at work (and at home, on KRnet) is spend a lot of = my=0D time greasing the skids and making life easier for those that follow. Tha= t=0D means I don't really get a lot done personally, but it does mean that I s= ave=0D a lot of other people's time. That gives me a lot of satisfaction, knowin= g=0D that I turned a little of my time into saving a lot of time for others.=0D It's kind of like multiplying my time by a large factor, which makes me f= eel=0D worth a little more than I really am. That's exactly what Van is doing fo= r=0D RV builders, on a grand scale, and is why he's selling them like hotcakes= =2E..=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL=0D N56ML "at" hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom n56ml@hiwaay.net Mon Jul 21 19:06:20 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19emXk-000M1J-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:06:20 -0700 Received: from basement (user-24-214-88-148.knology.net [24.214.88.148]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6M26DQC539879 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:06:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <032f01c34ff5$f3d0b8f0$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <032501c34ff3$11bca9d0$1202a8c0@basement> <3F1C99B0.000001.03308@Computer> Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbeltstotheairframe... Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:07:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Dan wrote: > And, Mark, you are right about the money for the kit, and if you could put a > Corvair in one, it would not come out to be any more than the KR, by the > time you add up all the stuff and the things that you had to do over. I > really think that it is the expense of the engine that really makes it a lot > more. I did a little math exercise on a typical RV, which sell for something like $65k when you're done with one. I could get laid off from work, build an RV, and my time spent building would be equivalent to a minimum of 20 bucks an hour IF I decided to sell it when I was done. That beats flippin' burgers at McDonalds, and if I get a real job before I run out of money, I could keep it! Of course the problem is that if I didn't have a job, I wouldn't be able to build an RV, but that's what the wife's salary is for. And if you don't have a wife, and you've been living right, you could always get a second mortage. The engines aren't so bad, if you buy one that's almost run out and rebuild it. The parts prices are still obscene though, I'll be the first to admit, and there's no arguing that! My wife told me I had to work on the plane for two hours tonight before I came to bed, so I better get to it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:14:40 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR> Re: My wife told........ Message-ID: <002a01c34ff7$02c09dc0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <032501c34ff3$11bca9d0$1202a8c0@basement> <3F1C99B0.000001.03308@Computer> <032f01c34ff5$f3d0b8f0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Hey Langford.....think you could get your wife to call mine and tell what a real aviation nut and KR builders wife is like.... Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" > My wife told me I had to work on the plane for two hours tonight before I > came to bed, so I better get to it... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR> Re: My wife told........ Message-ID: <035901c34ffc$fe763b20$1202a8c0@basement> References: <032501c34ff3$11bca9d0$1202a8c0@basement><3F1C99B0.000001.03308@Computer> <032f01c34ff5$f3d0b8f0$1202a8c0@basement> <002a01c34ff7$02c09dc0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 > Hey Langford.....think you could get your wife to call mine and tell what a > real aviation nut and KR builders wife is like.... Life is good, but I ain't sharin'. She's absolutely as good as they get! Of course, I can't take the credit. She soloed when she was 16... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:04:14 -0400 From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>How do I do that - What would Langford do. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Dan - Dana doesn't have to think about what size bolts or what kind of = bracket to make or where to put it, it is already figured out and all the = brackets and bolts and other stuff are ready for him to buy. Mark - One of the things I do at work (and at home, on KRnet) is spend a = lot of my time greasing the skids and making life easier for those that = follow How many times have I spent hours looking at the plans and thinking, = wondering, How is the best way to do that? Then I go to the computer to = see how Langford did it. That is usually the way I end up doing it but = it is never as easy as he makes it look nor is mine as pretty as his. = Thanks Mark. Keep up the good work. Maybe I'll build an RV-10 next. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Fayetteville, NC.From JStephenz@aol.com Mon Jul 21 20:37:36 2003 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19eny4-000Mwr-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:37:36 -0700 Received: from JStephenz@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.51.325cb55d (16335) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:37:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JStephenz@aol.com Message-ID: <51.325cb55d.2c4e0b77@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:37:27 EDT To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>minnesotans going yo oshkosh X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: IS ANYONE GOING TO OSHKOSH FROM MINN. THAT WOULDN'T MIND PICKING UP A PART FOR ME? IF SO PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL ME AT: jstephenz@aol.com 651 774-1563 Thanks Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:03:12 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts totheairframe... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 OK, since I didn't bring this up I'll respond. Remember, I built a KR so I do have first hand comparison ability. Dan, yes it is very enjoyable building this airplane. I don't have to stop what I am doing because I don't have a bolt. If an RV builder inventories the kits as they come in, he will have all the nuts, bolts, washers, rivets, cotter pins, plastic fittings, plumbing fittings.......the list goes on, to finish the entire airframe including brakes, tubes and tires. If you are missing something, call Van's up and they send you items free. There is some head scratching because the plans start off holding your hand at every point but become less involved as the building process goes on. Some complain about this but if by the time you are building the fuselage you don't know to bevel a flat piece overlap to avoid bulging up when you rivet, that's your own fault. It is fun to go the shop with a goal in mind and finishing with a part that is done, complete and ready for install at one sitting. This is a picture showing all the small parts. Remember, that is an 8' bench so I have 6' of nuts, bolts, rivets and "stuff". The left two are mostly rivet heads, drills bits, guages and so on. The middle two are mostly rivets and the right two are fittings, bolts and misc. hardware. http://rvflying.tripod.com/rv1.jpg This one shows just how complete it is. From left to right are fuel pump, brake reservoir, nuts, various rod end bearsings, adel clamps and flap bushings. Above somewhere in the pic is a draw full of snap bushings for wire and line carrythroughs. http://rvflying.tripod.com/rv2.jpg Now to show the detail of all this prepunched stuff. This is the forward section middle floor cover with the slots punched in the front to vent the fuel pump. If you look closely you will see three hole patterns, these are prepunched nutplate attachment points. All the parts are this nice. http://rvflying.tripod.com/rv3.jpg Do I have to search for the right bolt, just read the plans. Here is the tailwheel with some plans in the background. Heck, they even call out the various washers whether you need a thin and thick or thick and thick. You need to study the plans as they are very detailed with a load of information in notes and "see detailed section A-A" http://rvflying.tripod.com/rv4.jpg Not quite 18K for the entire, and I mean entire airframe including canopy is not cheap but it is reasonable for what you get. I will have less in my RV than I have in my 2003 GMC 2500. You gotta keep it in perspective. Now, for anyone interested in what is going to cripple other four place airplance companies. The RV-10 has flown and will be at Oshkosh. They will be taking orders. It will outfly my Bonanza hands down and carry more, cost less to maintain and allows you put some neat avionics in it that are not available to the certified crowd. Oshkosh.........07 Honda Motorcycles Pavilion Weds. 7/30 11:30AM-12:45PM Premier Introduction of the RV-10 I'll bring some pieces along to Oshkosh. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:26:15 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Look Ma.......no clecos!!-bolt sizes Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 >From: Scott Cable >I'm kinda curious abou something Dana, >What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to >the airframe? > Well Scott, it appears from the picture below of the plans the outboard powder coated F-634-L&R seat belt anchors are attached to the rear spar carrythrough with the following: AN3-6A bolts, AN960-10L washers, AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. The inboard seat belt anchors use the same washers and nuts but the bolts are AN3-5As. The outboard have longer bolts as they pass through the F-6050 Bar Doubler which is the rear spar attachment point. http://rvflying.tripod.com/rv5.jpg Sorry, couldn't resist:-) Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: Scott Cable >I'm kinda curious abou something Dana, >What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to >the airframe? > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:31:37 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Oshkosh Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 >From: chris gardiner > >Owen and I are still planning for a Sunday arrival . >Will try for the >autoengine conversion area if possible . > >BTW: When is the beer and brats night , Dana ? We are all going to be at the Weds. KR forum so that is going to be the spot where we leave from. Since Oshkosh is so large, it would be difficult to carry grills, coolers and so on into the site so we are going to leave the KR forum tent and go to my campsite in Camp Scholler. Since I don't know exactly where that will be, we will just play "follow the leader, follow the dumba$$, follow the wandering one" whatever you want to call me. We'll grill out, drink a "soda" or two and swap lies. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe... Message-ID: <2753848.1058892650155.JavaMail.nobody@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 A few other things to consider; I have seen RVs sell for more money than went into them. You are very lucky if you can sell any KR for near the price of the materials. There are a ton of people who would be willing to buy a completed RV. Depending on where you are you can save between $1,000 and $4,000 a year by tying an RV down instead of a composite plane that needs to be kept in a hanger. That is why I torn between building an RV-10 next or designing a composite 4 place that can be built like a KR. -------Original Message------- From: Mark Langford Sent: 07/21/03 09:46 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR> Re: What size bolts get used to secure the seatbelts to theairframe... > > > It's the price of the Kit Don't forget the price of your time. I "moonlight" as a computer system administrator for a small company about 3 miles from my house, keeping their server and computers running and backed up. They pay me $50 an hour for my time, which is about $33 an hour by the time Uncle Sam gets done with me. If you consider that I have 4100 hours into my KR so far, I already have over $135,000 in it, not counting material! Maybe that's not the way most people view it, but it's the way I look at it. Of course, really, Dana would say that I have to consider the value of money 9 years ago when I started, and my salary at my regular job back then, and average it all out, and he's right, but you get the picture. The time is worth a lot of money that I could have earned, if I'd wanted to spend more time at work rather than build an airplane. Now if you're retired, and do it for the pleasure and to keep your mind sharp, that's a whole 'nuther story, assuming of course, that you finish the thing before you actually lose your medical. Don't get me wrong, I'm not begrudging this process at all, and am, in fact, enjoying the process, but I don't see the RV as being all that high priced when all things are considered. Like a lot of things in life, it's a tradeoff. I have to admit that when I started my KR, I didn't really think I could afford it, and now 9 years later, I'm already saving money for an RV-10 so I can haul the kids around. Like my father says, "people spend their money on whatever they want to spend it on". One of the things I do at work (and at home, on KRnet) is spend a lot of my time greasing the skids and making life easier for those that follow. That means I don't really get a lot done personally, but it does mean that I save a lot of other people's time. That gives me a lot of satisfaction, knowing that I turned a little of my time into saving a lot of time for others. It's kind of like multiplying my time by a large factor, which makes me feel worth a little more than I really am. That's exactly what Van is doing for RV builders, on a grand scale, and is why he's selling them like hotcakes... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 104, Issue 1 *************************************