From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 118, Issue 1 Date: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 12:07 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: (no subject) (Oswaldo P. Silva Filho) 2. Re: (no subject), then cameras, now prop hubs (Mark Langford) 3. Re: (no subject), then cameras, now prop hubs (Oswaldo P. Silva Filho) 4. Re: Finished seat belt attachments with lap belt installation (Scott Cable) 5. Re: KR2s Internal Dimensions (B. Wunder) 6. Ailerons (Timothy Bellville) 7. RE: Oshkosh - I'm home (Jim Faughn) 8. Acrobatics (Colin) 9. Re: Ailerons 10. Aerobatics and KRs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:24:34 -0300 From: "Oswaldo P. Silva Filho" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <002f01c35adf$90cbfb80$91d598c8@OSWALDO> References: <2c8601c35a31$6a890d90$1202a8c0@basement><3F2DD05B.000001.00172@DDMWDD11> <02db01c35a7f$73246fa0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Hey Mark Would you have the prop hub drawing in CAD format? FYI we will have it CNC'd down here and the drawing in my WW manual is not so clear to scan.. Thanx in advance Oswaldo Rio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:56 AM Subject: Re: KR>(no subject) > gleone wrote: > > > That's interesting as I get 40 pictures on each 1.4 meg. floppy disk. > > Obviously you're not using a Mavica. The pictures I get are standard JPG > > format and excellent quality. > > I must say that if you're getting 40 pictures on a floppy, the quality is > not going to be up to par with what I'm used to (my photos are half a meg > each). In the digital camera world, quality is defined by how large a file > the camera can create. These numbers are usually given for TIFF files, and > JPEGs are maybe a tenth that big, but my camera makes 550k JPG files, and > the Mavica apparently makes 35k files. Most of my files, when quartered in > size and compressed by a factor of 8 for the web are reduced to about 50k, > and they look OK on a computer screen. But when it comes to photos that I > want to print out and keep, I need all the pixels I can find. But if it > works for you, that's great, and it may be the most wonderful camera on the > planet for throwing web photos out there... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:35:04 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>(no subject), then cameras, now prop hubs Message-ID: <001d01c35ae1$0cc6c340$2402a8c0@800Athlon> References: <2c8601c35a31$6a890d90$1202a8c0@basement><3F2DD05B.000001.00172@DDMWDD11><02db01c35a7f$73246fa0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> <002f01c35adf$90cbfb80$91d598c8@OSWALDO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Oswaldo wrote: > Would you have the prop hub drawing in CAD format? > FYI we will have it CNC'd down here and the drawing in my WW manual is not > so clear to scan.. > Thanx in advance It's located on the web as a pdf file at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/prophub.html or http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/prophub.x_t if you are going to CNC it ... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:07:09 -0300 From: "Oswaldo P. Silva Filho" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>(no subject), then cameras, now prop hubs Message-ID: <008e01c35ae5$835e93d0$91d598c8@OSWALDO> References: <2c8601c35a31$6a890d90$1202a8c0@basement><3F2DD05B.000001.00172@DDMWDD11><02db01c35a7f$73246fa0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com><002f01c35adf$90cbfb80$91d598c8@OSWALDO> <001d01c35ae1$0cc6c340$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Thanks Mark Rgds Oswaldo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:35 PM Subject: Re: KR>(no subject), then cameras, now prop hubs > Oswaldo wrote: > > > Would you have the prop hub drawing in CAD format? > > FYI we will have it CNC'd down here and the drawing in my WW manual is not > > so clear to scan.. > > Thanx in advance > > It's located on the web as a pdf file at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/prophub.html or > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/prophub.x_t if you are going to CNC > it ... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:07:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Finished seat belt attachments with lap belt installation Message-ID: <20030805000750.89611.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3F2CE594.000005.03776@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Dan, Nice Job! Awhile back I was talking to you about "H"-Point. The H-Point(as you may recall) is (in a profile view) where your hips rotate about or the center of your hip socket. If you draw a line starting from the H-Point, and normal (perpendicular)to your spine and then past, and then draw another line downward from the spine normal line at 45 degrees, this will give you a "zone" where to comfortably place the lap belt. In the automotive industry, this also happens to coincide with where the "biteline" is (which is the intersection of the back and cushion). Another method of locating this zone is to place the first line instead of normal to the spine, place it horizontally from H-Point and then the second line 45 degrees below the first line. You'll notice a shift in where the zone is. However, when considering that the KR seating arrangement is more like a "sports car" than a luxury car, I would Lay-out the belt zone like the first method of spine normal. As a point of reference only: The automobile industry uses a minimum of m11 bolts to secure seatbelts to the vehicle strucure. That's the equivalent of a 7/16th inch bolt. Typically, the seating system has to undergo a sled test, which places a full size crash dummy in the seating system and accellerates it 20 G's (equivalent of a 25 mph rear-end crash) The dummy must remain restrained in the seat and the seat-system has to prove it can withstand the test without a fracture failure of any seatframe component. If memory serves this is the FMVSS210 test. In real life, rear impact crashes often exceed the 20 G load, and often exceed 40 G's. I have seen time after time where the belts still remained attached (and therefore the occupant)to the structure, even under a 40 G impact load. ( Yeilded, yes, but still attached) The F/A-18 uses 7/16 bolts to attach the restraint system to the ejection seat. I'm not a strength Engineer, but the RV's use a 1/4 in bolt for this same purpose. What would I use? Probably 1/4 inch, bolted through the spar with large diameter washers to use as a back-up. Enjoy! --- Dan Heath wrote: This is the only solution that I could > come up with that keeps the HARDware away from your > butt and the elevator > push tube travel. > > > N64KR > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > See you in Red Oak - 2003 > > See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the > pic > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:24:42 -0500 From: "B. Wunder" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2s Internal Dimensions Message-ID: <004301c35af8$be082560$4737933f@computer> References: <20030804015157.69873.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 From: "Ray Fuenzalida" > As a new builder, I am trying to learn everything. > How did you widen the fuselage? That seems to me to be one of the great limitations of the KR2S. Ray, What I did is follow the recommendations that were made by other builders to widen the fuselage 4-6" and I even widened the firewall 2". This more or less precludes you from using any prefabricated parts for cowling, canopy, etc. I cut out the widened fuselage contour I wanted from brown wrapping paper and stapled it to my work table. Then I put the clamping blocks around the edges of the pattern as described in the plans which made the sides conform to the fuselage shape I wanted....this can be seen in the few photos I put on my web site under "fuselage". I use the Kitlog Pro software for my construction log and all the details are described there...which means I don't put a lot of effort or time in a web site.... r/Bernie KR2S Builder Lexington Park, MD http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n2w6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:59:55 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Ailerons Message-ID: <000f01c35afd$a766e530$ea60570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Ok Guys , I'm back from the Holy land and making great progress on = N7038V. I have turned my attention to the hinge mounts for the Ailerons, and per = some suggestions to correct the "rivet" installation, I have begun to = flox in the nut plates to the spars. I would like to repeat my steps for you, and welcome input. First, I removed the rivets from one side of one of the four hinges to = maintain alignment. Then I drilled out the holes to 7/32" , and placed the two lug nut = plates in the holes,then check to see if the holes in the hinge were on = center. I then used #2 ss screws to hold the plates down, and traced the outline = of them, then removed them. Using a dremal and a router bit, I made sockets for them to be recessed = below the top of the spar, and then reinstalled them with the screws in = the mounting lugs. I then folded the hinge back down to check alignment and flushness. I dipped the 8-32 truss head machine screws in wax the lightly screwed = them in the nut plates. Lastly I mix some "West systems" epoxy with flox to a peanut butter = consistency, and with a wood trowel filled the holes and encapsulated = the nut plates. I then used the remaining mixture to make a test piece, to test the = strength to destruction,of this type of installation. Anyone see any problems? Thanks Timothy Bellville KR2 N7038V Toledo , Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:16:16 -0500 From: "Jim Faughn" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Oshkosh - I'm home Message-ID: <000701c35b42$fd56d000$ac466ad8@jfaughn> In-Reply-To: <20030803.124503.3984.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 There are people that loop and roll the plane. However, I don't. I don't have the training and I believe the vertical stabilizer is too small for a recovery from a spin. Jim -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+jfaughn=mvp.net@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+jfaughn=mvp.net@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth L Wiltrout Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 11:45 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Oshkosh - I'm home Jim, I've been flying my S for 3 yrs now and have wondered about aerobatics, Just what are these planes capable off? I would get training first of course.-----------------Thanks!! On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:19:35 -0500 "Jim Faughn" writes: > Thanks to all that I saw at Oshkosh. It was a blast. I spent quite a > bit of > time on the flight line trying to show off the KR and meet people. > One of > the neatest things was meeting all of the people that had built KR's > in the > past. There are many of them. Also, I met Sam Bailey who was > approved for > aerobatics in his KR. He may make it to Red Oak. > > I'm looking forward to September and our fly-in. I finished my > updates to my > website tonight of the trip, on the KR section, and hope that it has > helped > get some people motivated to work on their planes. Trust me, it's > more fun > to fly them than build them. > > Jim Faughn > > http://www.jfaughn.com > Email jfaughn "at" socket.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:57:44 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Acrobatics Message-ID: <000e01c35b59$8bbea550$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 Netters, It is my understanding that two things make it undesirable if not = potentially dangerous to do acrobatic maneuvers in the KR. One is the = removable wing, due to the excess loads imposed on the wing attach = fittings. Second is the short coupled empennage makes for a very short = arm for the rudder and elevator, which can make spin recovery very = difficult. A third complication might come from the fact that it is so = clean a design if built properly, that a pilot could very easily dive = the airplane well past his never exceed speed and overload the airframe = during the recovery. With proper training, I have heard that certain = maneuvers are considered 1g maneuvers, and would be okay for the KR, = like a properly executed barrel roll, but I personally would limit it to = these, since the design limits of the airplane stated mean that you have = built strictly by the plans and within the stated weight limits of Ken = Rand. Yours and mine being custom, our limits have changed probably more = on the conservative, or normal category of operation. Just my opinion... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From AviationMech@aol.com Tue Aug 05 08:45:10 2003 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19k3zp-0007Z9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:45:09 -0700 Received: from AviationMech@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.21.32eccea9 (4380) for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AviationMech@aol.com Message-ID: <21.32eccea9.2c612b1d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:45:33 EDT Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: In a message dated 8/4/2003 11:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > Anyone see any problems? > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:46:19 EDT From: AviationMech@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons Message-ID: <160.24156cac.2c612b4b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 In a message dated 8/4/2003 11:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > Anyone see any problems? > Op's on the first reply. It sounds good to me N13116 1984 to 2003 19 years in a KR. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:06:50 -0500 From: To: "KR Builders and Flyers" Subject: KR>Aerobatics and KRs Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C35B41.AB955BC0" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C35B41.AB955BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He said "It is my understanding that two things make it undesirable if not potentially dangerous to do acrobatic maneuvers in the KR. One is the removable wing" Most aircraft have removable wings. Take some aerobatic lessons and learn to do them right. Don't take your first spin lesson on turn to final. If you learn to do spins, you will refuse to do them on turn to final. 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_______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 118, Issue 1 *************************************