From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 119, Issue 1 Date: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:08 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Ailerons (Timothy Bellville) 2. Re: Ailerons (Brian Kraut) 3. Re: web site update (Herb Hickox) 4. Re: Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make asocket for thenut plates. (Dana Overall) 7. Sport Aviation Fly-in photos (Mark Langford) 8. Re: web site update (Jim Sellars) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:59:02 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons Message-ID: <007301c35bb5$ee349ee0$f85f570c@donnas> References: <160.24156cac.2c612b4b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Thanks Orma, BTW , not to rub it in but the holy land (Oshkosh) was great. we had a fantastic time. Got some good parts at the "fly market" Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons > In a message dated 8/4/2003 11:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > Anyone see any problems? > > > > Op's on the first reply. It sounds good to me > N13116 1984 to 2003 > 19 years in a KR. > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:56:34 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons Message-ID: <3F306E62.5010607@earthlink.net> References: <000f01c35afd$a766e530$ea60570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. It sounds by your description that you cut a socket and floxed in the nut plates on the outside, i.e. the aft side on the wing and the forward side on the aileron, instead of putting them on the inside where the screw goes through the wood spar and then into the nut plate. I say this because I can see no reason to cut out a socket for the nut plate. Am I just confused by your description? Timothy Bellville wrote: >Ok Guys , I'm back from the Holy land and making great progress on N7038V. >I have turned my attention to the hinge mounts for the Ailerons, and per some suggestions to correct the "rivet" installation, I have begun to flox in the nut plates to the spars. >I would like to repeat my steps for you, and welcome input. > >First, I removed the rivets from one side of one of the four hinges to maintain alignment. >Then I drilled out the holes to 7/32" , and placed the two lug nut plates in the holes,then check to see if the holes in the hinge were on center. >I then used #2 ss screws to hold the plates down, and traced the outline of them, then removed them. >Using a dremal and a router bit, I made sockets for them to be recessed below the top of the spar, and then reinstalled them with the screws in the mounting lugs. >I then folded the hinge back down to check alignment and flushness. >I dipped the 8-32 truss head machine screws in wax the lightly screwed them in the nut plates. >Lastly I mix some "West systems" epoxy with flox to a peanut butter consistency, and with a wood trowel filled the holes and encapsulated the nut plates. >I then used the remaining mixture to make a test piece, to test the strength to destruction,of this type of installation. >Anyone see any problems? >Thanks >Timothy Bellville >KR2 N7038V >Toledo , Ohio >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:58:07 -0400 From: "Herb Hickox" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>web site update Message-ID: <000201c35bc6$cd95baa0$ce471bd1@v0e7g2> References: <3F26001C.4070206@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Dear Brian, So sorry I didn't make it this weekend. I will try for this next one....will call. I would really like to talk to the gentleman from Maine that flies to Palm Coast. Since he has many hours in a KR2 he will provide me with valuable info I think. Sincerely, Herb Hickox (904)806-6430 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:07:17 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. Message-ID: <3F3070E5.000009.01608@Computer> References: <3F306E62.5010607@earthlink.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Me too. Take a look at the link below, and you will see, near the end of the thumbnail pictures, some of the hinge installation. Sorry that I did not take any of the inside, behind the spars, to show the nut plates attached with rivits. The rivits do nothing but keep the plate from turn= ing All the stress is on the nutplate and the hinge. I guess that I must h= ave done something wrong, cause it seens too simple and I thought that it was the way everybody did it.=0D =0D http://kr-builder.org/Aileron/index.html =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: engalt@earthlink.net; KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:55:35 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons=0D =0D I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut=0D plates. It sounds by your description that you cut a socket and floxed=0D in the nut plates on the outside, i.e. the aft side on the wing and the=0D forward side on the aileron, instead of putting them on the inside where=0D the screw goes through the wood spar and then into the nut plate. I say=0D this because I can see no reason to cut out a socket for the nut plate.=0D Am I just confused by your description?=0D =20From Warren.Shapcott@onesource.co.nz Tue Aug 05 20:07:20 2003 Received: from smtp.cogentltd.net.nz ([210.55.177.10] helo=jonah.ubix.co.nz) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19kEe0-000Bi5-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 20:07:20 -0700 Received: from ak1ex1v01.ubix.co.nz (not verified[10.20.15.51]) by jonah.ubix.co.nz with MailMarshal (4,2,5,0) id ; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:06:25 +1200 Received: by AK1EX1V01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:05:27 +1200 Message-ID: <1493C2829B8AF8498A2111990735A3094665EA@CH1EX1> From: Warren Shapcott To: "'engalt@earthlink.net'" , 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>Ailerons Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:10:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I agree with those thoughts. It sounds like you have put the nuts on the outside of the spar instead of the inside. i.e. inside the wing. If so this is a no no and will be very dangerous as the load will be taken by the floxed area whereas it should be taken by the spar supporting the nut from behind the spar. warren shapcott new zealand zk-krj -----Original Message----- From: Brian Kraut [mailto:engalt@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 2:57 p.m. To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. It sounds by your description that you cut a socket and floxed in the nut plates on the outside, i.e. the aft side on the wing and the forward side on the aileron, instead of putting them on the inside where the screw goes through the wood spar and then into the nut plate. I say this because I can see no reason to cut out a socket for the nut plate. Am I just confused by your description? Timothy Bellville wrote: >Ok Guys , I'm back from the Holy land and making great progress on N7038V. >I have turned my attention to the hinge mounts for the Ailerons, and per some suggestions to correct the "rivet" installation, I have begun to flox in the nut plates to the spars. >I would like to repeat my steps for you, and welcome input. > >First, I removed the rivets from one side of one of the four hinges to maintain alignment. >Then I drilled out the holes to 7/32" , and placed the two lug nut plates in the holes,then check to see if the holes in the hinge were on center. >I then used #2 ss screws to hold the plates down, and traced the outline of them, then removed them. >Using a dremal and a router bit, I made sockets for them to be recessed below the top of the spar, and then reinstalled them with the screws in the mounting lugs. >I then folded the hinge back down to check alignment and flushness. >I dipped the 8-32 truss head machine screws in wax the lightly screwed them in the nut plates. >Lastly I mix some "West systems" epoxy with flox to a peanut butter consistency, and with a wood trowel filled the holes and encapsulated the nut plates. >I then used the remaining mixture to make a test piece, to test the strength to destruction,of this type of installation. >Anyone see any problems? >Thanks >Timothy Bellville >KR2 N7038V >Toledo , Ohio >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 23:23:31 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut plates. Message-ID: <3F3074B3.8060004@earthlink.net> References: <3F306E62.5010607@earthlink.net> <3F3070E5.000009.01608@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I just sanded the spar with coarse sandpaper and floxed the plates on. I didn't have any spin on me. I would have probably used some small wood screws to keep them from spinning, but I wound up having to add nut plates on a wing that was alredy built because there were not enough of them and the ones that were there were not locking nut plates, they were just T nuts. I had to install them through small holes I cut in the bottom skin. Kind of like building a ship in a bottle. I believe from Tim's questions a few weeks ago that he was in the same boat with a wing that was already built. Dan Heath wrote: >Me too. Take a look at the link below, and you will see, near the end of >the thumbnail pictures, some of the hinge installation. Sorry that I did >not take any of the inside, behind the spars, to show the nut plates >attached with rivits. The rivits do nothing but keep the plate from turning > All the stress is on the nutplate and the hinge. I guess that I must have >done something wrong, cause it seens too simple and I thought that it was >the way everybody did it. > > > >http://kr-builder.org/Aileron/index.html > > > >N64KR > > > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > >See you in Red Oak - 2003 > > > >See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic > >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > >-------Original Message------- > > > >From: engalt@earthlink.net; KR builders and pilots > >Date: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:55:35 PM > >To: KR builders and pilots > >Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons > > > >I am a bit confused on the router bit to make a socket for the nut > >plates. It sounds by your description that you cut a socket and floxed > >in the nut plates on the outside, i.e. the aft side on the wing and the > >forward side on the aileron, instead of putting them on the inside where > >the screw goes through the wood spar and then into the nut plate. I say > >this because I can see no reason to cut out a socket for the nut plate. > > Am I just confused by your description? > > _______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:19:44 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Ailerons - I am a bit confused on the router bit to make asocket for thenut plates. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Gang, all I'll do is address Dan's statement on the properities of rivets in nutplates. Nutplates are used extensively in my project. Rivet questions alway come up as to just what do they do. Dan is totally correct, the rivet itself adds nothing structual at all. All it does is keep the nutplate from turning. Use structual or alum rivets, pops or flush, you will not increase or decrease the integrity of the nutplate. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 06:47:39 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Sport Aviation Fly-in photos Message-ID: <037a01c35c10$89c5ce60$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 I went to the Sport Aviation Fly-in last month, and took 250 photos of wierd little stuff that I was interested in. Oscar asked "where are the photos" so here they are. I'm just too lazy to sit down and sift through them and pull out the good ones, and write commentary and all that stuff, but with Photoshop it's pretty easy for me to create a "canned" web page with nothing but the photos. So I figure that's better than nothing, although it makes viewing them a real pain in the butt compared to the way I usually do it. They're at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/SAA2003/ . My apologies if I took 5 in a row of the same thing. Since digital "film" is free, I just keep snapping photos until I get it right. That's pretty easy when you can take 440 high res photos without downloading to the laptop (try that with a floppy). For that reason, if bandwidth is a problem you might just want to head straight to the last one of a series to save yourself some time. I must say that I don't plan to ever miss another SAA Fly-in. It's the who's who of experimental aviation pioneers, and some really nice airplanes showed up. And I don't remember seeing but two "nose draggers" on the field! I took a few at OSH too, and will try to do a proper web page for them eventually. The KR brats and beer thing was a great sucess. Thanks to Mark and Dana for the effort! The forum and the KR dinner were the main reason I went to Osh this year. Next year maybe I'll fly... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:36:26 -0300 From: "Jim Sellars" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>web site update Message-ID: <002701c35c1f$bdd12dd0$a5a89aa5@LAPTOP> References: <3F26001C.4070206@earthlink.net> <000201c35bc6$cd95baa0$ce471bd1@v0e7g2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Brian: The fellow you're looking for is Kip Lounsbury, of Lincoln Maine. A good fellow and my friend, you can reach him at 207-794-6450, or 746-5019. He is a great resource for the KR-2 flyer. Best regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb Hickox" To: ; "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:58 PM Subject: Re: KR>web site update > Dear Brian, > > So sorry I didn't make it this weekend. I will try for this next > one....will call. > > I would really like to talk to the gentleman from Maine that flies to Palm > Coast. Since he has many hours in a KR2 he will provide me with valuable > info I think. > > Sincerely, > Herb Hickox > (904)806-6430 > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 119, Issue 1 *************************************