Received: by ant.hiwaay.net (mbox markl) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Wed Aug 13 10:36:44 2003) X-From_: krnet-bounces+markl=hiwaay.net@mylist.net Wed Aug 13 10:00:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from lizard.esosoft.net (lizard.esosoft.net [66.113.66.18]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DF09At711321 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19mx5k-000Kyk-03 for markl@hiwaay.net; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:59:12 -0700 From: krnet-request@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 126, Issue 1 To: krnet@mylist.net X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Sender: krnet-bounces+markl=hiwaay.net@mylist.net Errors-To: krnet-bounces+markl=hiwaay.net@mylist.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:59:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Oil cooling (larry severson) 2. removable turtle deck (larry severson) 3. Removable rear deck 4. Re: Question (Dan Heath) 5. Re: removable turtle deck (Wayne) 6. Re: Neil Bingham's KR2 7. Fiberfrax (Jim Morehead) 8. Re: Oil cooling (David Mullins) 9. Re: Fiberfrax (Mark Jones) 10. kr-1 for sale (garbez) 11. Re: Insurance & Liability (Ross Youngblood) 12. Re: removable turtle deck (Ross Youngblood) 13. Re: Insurance & Liability (Dana Overall) 14. Re: Insurance & Liability (Ron Eason) 15. Canopy and turtledeck (Oscar Zuniga) 16. RE: Canopy and turtledeck (David McKelvey4764) 17. Canopy and turtledeck (larry flesner) 18. Insurance (larry flesner) 19. Re: Insurance (Ross Youngblood) 20. Re: Canopy and turtledeck (Ross Youngblood) 21. Old KR 1 is New to Me (Bart and Kelly Gaffney) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:08:32 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Oil cooling Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812130329.029eb110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 Has anyone tried extruded aluminum cooling fins that clamp over the oil filter that is sold by Aircraft Spruce? Sounds neat, if it works. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:12:37 -0700 From: larry severson To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>removable turtle deck Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812151003.02a27e88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Has anyone looked at an actual removable turtle deck? I would like to have one. In the absence of other information, I assume that it is achieved with 3 one ft. hinge sections on each side using removable pins. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:17:29 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Removable rear deck Message-ID: <49.321d6213.2c6ac179@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 See: Ross Youngblood Has anyone looked at an actual removable turtle deck? I would like to have one. In the absence of other information, I assume that it is achieved with 3 one ft. hinge sections on each side using removable pins. Larry Severson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:19:58 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Question Message-ID: <3F39680E.00000D.03584@Computer> References: <002101c32f37$0c5f8840$f9af23cb@scottie> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 I have seen that no one has answered your questions, so I will make an attempt. I am building my second KR and flew my first for 6 years before selling it, a deed that I often regret.=0D =0D =0D - What is the glide ratio of the kr2=0D =0D I don't know and I would not reply to this question except to say, it depends. In fact, it depends on so much, that no one can know untill the= y test out their own plane. I never tested mine, but I can say that it dropped like a rock untill it got close to the ground. Others say that theirs glides forever and that it is hard to get down, thus so much talk about flaps and belly boards.=0D =0D - if wings can be extended ?=0D =0D Absolutely, in fact, if you put on the Diehl wing skins, you will be extending the wings.=0D =0D - Information on handling please=0D =0D It handles like a sports car. Think where you want to go and it goes. A= s a tail dragger, ground handling is exceptional. The problems that people h= ave with it is that it is pitch sensitive. I would think that the KR2S is le= ss sensitive due to the longer tail. It is bumpy and longer wings probably make it more bumpy. I think that the only thing you get from longer wing= s is a better climb rate.=0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:42:15 AM=0D To: krnet@mylist.net=0D Subject: KR>Question=0D =0D Hi,=0D I have just acquired a kr2 kit and have a couple of questions.=0D - What is the glide ratio of the kr2=0D - if wings can be extended ?=0D - Information on handling please=0D =0D If it would make it a little more docile hoping someone can help.=0D thankyou.=0D Scottie=0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom davmck4764@verizon.net Tue Aug 12 15:26:38 2003 Received: from pop017pub.verizon.net ([206.46.170.210] helo=pop017.verizon.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 19mhbC-000FeS-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:26:38 -0700 Received: from k9 ([4.63.65.152]) by pop017.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030812222732.CMP27671.pop017.verizon.net@k9> for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:27:32 -0500 From: "David McKelvey4764" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>removable turtle deck Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812151003.02a27e88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [4.63.65.152] at Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:27:32 -0500 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Larry, My turtle deck is removable using a single piano hinge the length of the deck on each side. I think it's a good idea in the event you have maintenance in that area i.e.: flight control cables. Mike Meyer also has a removable fwd deck, I liked it so much I'm going to do the same. As a Mechanic of 20 years I can imagine the KR is a tough acft to work on unless you build in access. Dave McKelvey, Grapevine, TX davmck@witty.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+davmck4764=verizon.net@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+davmck4764=verizon.net@mylist.net]On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:13 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>removable turtle deck Has anyone looked at an actual removable turtle deck? I would like to have one. In the absence of other information, I assume that it is achieved with 3 one ft. hinge sections on each side using removable pins. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:43:39 -0700 From: "Wayne" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>removable turtle deck Message-ID: <001301c36123$2c8b9280$6801a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812151003.02a27e88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 The removable turtle deck that Neil Bingham built had some small alumn. angle bonded or screwed or both to the longeron. The angle was inset just enough for the turtle deck to fit against it and be flush with the fuse. There were nut plates riveted to the inside of the angle every 3or4 inches and the screws he used were counter sunk into the fiberglass. Neil said it took 20 minutes or so to remove it but he said it was worth it the fist time he dropped a tool that would have been almost impossible to get to without the removable deck. ----- Original Message ----- From: larry severson To: Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: KR>removable turtle deck > Has anyone looked at an actual removable turtle deck? I would like to have > one. In the absence of other information, I assume that it is achieved with > 3 one ft. hinge sections on each side using removable pins. > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:03:56 EDT From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Neil Bingham's KR2 Message-ID: <1a4.186d9e94.2c6acc5c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 I live in laguna beach and did a quick check and did not find him in the listings... If I can be of any further help let me know!!! Thanks, John S. Monday 949-376-9470 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:08:37 -0700 From: Jim Morehead To: KR- Net Subject: KR>Fiberfrax Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Netters, I=B9m ready to apply the Fiberfrax and the stainless steel to the firewall. Do you glue both around the edge with resin or is there somethin= g better? Do you cover the exposed edges with micro and resin? Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:31:23 -0400 From: David Mullins To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Oil cooling Message-ID: <3F3978CB.5040004@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812130329.029eb110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030812130329.029eb110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Larry, I bought one from JC Whitney to help with the cooling. If it doesn't work a screwdriver can remove it. My engine hasn't started, so I don't know if it helps yet. If anyone is looking for Foam here is a surplus contact: Hello, Are you or anyone you know still looking for Trymer foam? I have 300,000 to 350,000 board ft of Trymer that I need to get out of wharehousing. I will sell dirt cheap. The material is made by Hitherm, Hitherm.net it is the HT-300 rated for up to 300 degrees F and sustains intermittent 350 degree F temps. Its properties are the same as the Trymer 2000. it has a better k factor than the Trymer 2000.sorry about the confusion, it was called a Trymer insulation when I was presented with it. We are asking $0.20 per board foot. it is in 4ft wide x 3 ft long x 2 ft high buns. The material is in Santa Anna, California. Thank you Jerry O'Hern Mailto:johern@charter.net David Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire Gathering Bound larry severson wrote: > Has anyone tried extruded aluminum cooling fins that clamp over the > oil filter that is sold by Aircraft Spruce? Sounds neat, if it works. > > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:54:16 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Fiberfrax Message-ID: <003901c36135$6c957140$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Jim, Get some high temperature fireplace silicone caulk found at your local building supply house. Put a bead all over the plywood firewall and spre= ad with a notched trowel. Apply the fiberfrax and then do the same for the stainless. The silicone caulk only needs to hold the frax and stainless i= n place because as you mount things to the firewall, the frax and stainless will not go anywhere. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Jim Morehead" To: "KR- Net" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 6:08 PM Subject: KR>Fiberfrax Netters, I=B9m ready to apply the Fiberfrax and the stainless steel to the firewall. Do you glue both around the edge with resin or is there someth= ing better? Do you cover the exposed edges with micro and resin? Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:57:36 -0500 From: "garbez" To: Subject: KR>kr-1 for sale Message-ID: <001801c3614f$53db56a0$86effea9@netins.net> Precedence: list Message: 10 Guys, Phil Pearce contacted me wanting to get the word out about a KR-1 a friend of his has for sale. I am sending the letter on to you, if anyone is interested please contact Phil at the e-mail address ppearce3@cox.net Thanks, Mike >>Hi Mike. My name is Phil Pearce. I am a Cessna owner and a friend of a John Chambers. John is 85 years old and acquired a nearly completed KR-1 and finished it up and had it test flown here at Falcon Field in Mesa, AZ. He needs to sell it and has not really known how best to do it. A couple of fellows came out and looked and said they were interested, but no return inquiry. John needs to sell the plane, as he is getting older and wants to start liquidating his "stuff". He has no computer, therefore I try to help. I believe his asking price is around 8,000.00. It is VW powered. He has acquired a Porsch engine with all new parts that is not yet assembled, that he had planned for an upgrade in the power dept. The present VW setup flys, but is underpowered. It has a brand new radio installed. I can send pics to anyone interested. I feel that John might take less, but probably not much less than the 8,000.00. Can you advise me as to how to possibly get his info out to the best interested parties? I think the plane has around two hours on it, total time. Sincerely, Phil Pearce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:00:55 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Insurance & Liability Message-ID: <20030813060055.29190.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Max, Thanks so much for your discussion on transfering ownership to a corporation. I had a bit of exposure to the incorporation process having incorporated as an EAA chapter in the state of Oregon. It was a non-profit, but many of the forms were the same. Other than bylaws, and annual filings, it's not too bad in terms of paperwork. One question I need to figure out is how this impacts the FAA and the registration process. But I can find a local aviation lawyer I suppose to work out the details for a small fee when/if I want to cross that bridge. Thanks again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:39:46 -0500 To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Insurance & Liability > As a non-KR-owner, I can only contribute to this thread from a > lawyer/pilot's general perspective: > > 1. Any airport, even public, has the right to set the conditions for > planes based there, as long as the conditions are applied equally, including > requiring reasonable liability insurance. > 2. The states shouldn't be able to require insurance on airplanes, like > they do on cars, since aviation has been held to be so "inherently Federal > in nature" that states can't even interfere in it (for example, by requiring > an additional state pilot's license). I don't know of any state that does > so. > 3. Many airports do require liability insurance, but this is usually > enforced by merely having a statement on the rental form that the owner has > it and will keep it. I have never been asked to produce a copy of the policy > or binder. > 4. A statement on the rental agreement that you have insurance doesn't > affect your liability to whomever you injure or damage subsequently at that > airport, but it does give the airport a contractual action against you in > addition to the victim's lawsuit. I cannot imagine why an airport would sue > under this clause. I would stress, however, that if there were an accident > involving a mechanical malfunction in an experimental aircraft--something > laymen would find quite foreseeable--and it were shown that the owner/pilot > had lied on his application about having insurance, it wouldn't look so > good. This would be especially true if an innocent victim were to sustain > great pain and disfigurement and a million dollars in medical bills, and is > now faced with a cash-strapped owner and no insurance company. > 5. Although this is a little off-topic, I would recommend to any owner of > an uninsured aircraft that he put the plane's record (FAA) ownership in the > name of a corporation. Although there are some simple things--primarily > regarding registering the company and keeping corporate accounts > separate--that the corporation must do, this affords strong protection > against personal lawsuits AS OWNER OF THE AIRCRAFT. This doesn't help a > negligent pilot, who can always be sued for his own negligence, but it does > help to protect an owner and non-negligent pilot. Negligence can be hard to > prove in aviation cases, so corporate ownership is well worth the money. > There is nothing improper about placing an airplane under corporate > ownership, but of course the corporation has to be formed properly BEFORE a > claim arises. The internet is full of advice on how to do it--some states > charge as little as $60. > > Above is not legal advice--an aircraft owner should talk to a lawyer in his > jurisdiction regarding whether he needs or should have insurance. > > Max Hardberger > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:02:54 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>removable turtle deck Message-ID: <20030813060254.30410.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 On my KR I have two extruded piano hinges, I just pull out a hinge pin and the turtle deck opens like a hatchback! -- Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:43:39 -0700 To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>removable turtle deck > The removable turtle deck that Neil Bingham built had some small alumn. > angle bonded or screwed or both to the longeron. The angle was inset just > enough for the turtle deck to fit against it and be flush with the fuse. > There were nut plates riveted to the inside of the angle every 3or4 inches > and the screws he used were counter sunk into the fiberglass. Neil said it > took 20 minutes or so to remove it but he said it was worth it the fist time > he dropped a tool that would have been almost impossible to get to without > the removable deck. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: larry severson > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:12 PM > Subject: KR>removable turtle deck > > > > Has anyone looked at an actual removable turtle deck? I would like to have > > one. In the absence of other information, I assume that it is achieved > with > > 3 one ft. hinge sections on each side using removable pins. > > > > Larry Severson > > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > > (714) 968-9852 > > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:21:00 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Insurance & Liability Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 >Max, > Thanks so much for your discussion on transfering ownership to a >corporation. I had a bit of exposure to >the incorporation process having incorporated as an EAA >chapter in the state of Oregon. It was a non-profit, but >many of the forms were the same. Other than bylaws, and >annual filings, it's not too bad in terms of paperwork Man, I said to myself I would never get into discussions like this again on the net but.................. I didn't respone to Max's learned post as I didn't believe anyone here wanted to be subjected to a discussion between two JDs.....much like two drunks arguing.........not much substance just a whole lot of talking:-) Any practitioneer worth his weight in salts knows what to look for to "Pierce the Corporate Veil (mask, cloak, shroad)" of a closely held corporation and hold his shareholders liable for at least their capital value in such. This capital account can be a very time consuming process to determine. Much like the earlier discussed Exculpatory Agreement, incorporation is not immune from litigation. Any attorney who is adversely swayed from processing because incorporation, would be a poor choice of representation. In the commonwealth where I reside, it is extremely easy to pierce. Courts have been swayed previously if the plantiff successfully argues that the only evidence of existance of said corporation is merely avoidance of liability, in determining such identity is against public well being and thus culpability is expanded to include shareholders. The paperwork is where one would look first for proof the corporation acted as a corporation. I know it sounds like I am talking out both side of my mouth, but the paperwork is the first place one would look to get a foothold. I don't believe Max intended the interpretation of his post to imply the mere existance of an airplance corporation would provide an umbrella of liability protection. Like I said, if potential representation would imply there was no reason to go on because of filed incorporation papers.........find another attorney. I do take a little differnece in Max's statement that negligence is hard to prove in aviation. It may be true related to commercially manufactured aircraft but to the layman, a homebuilt airplane could be construded as inherently more liable for a negligence judgement. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:37:06 -0700 From: "Ron Eason" To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Insurance & Liability Message-ID: <200308130437.AA715653398@jrl-engineering.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 I've registered my 150 as a asset in my corporation and will do the same with my KR2 [ sell it to the corporation]. Both will have a purpose relative to our business as stated in the by laws. Dana is write it in the paper work and purpose relative to the business as detailed in the by-laws. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Ross Youngblood" Reply-To: KR builders and pilots Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:00:55 +0100 >Max, > Thanks so much for your discussion on transfering ownership to a corporation. I had a bit of exposure to >the incorporation process having incorporated as an EAA >chapter in the state of Oregon. It was a non-profit, but >many of the forms were the same. Other than bylaws, and >annual filings, it's not too bad in terms of paperwork. > One question I need to figure out is how this impacts >the FAA and the registration process. But I can find >a local aviation lawyer I suppose to work out the details >for a small fee when/if I want to cross that bridge. > Thanks again. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Max Hardberger" >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:39:46 -0500 >To: , "KR builders and pilots" >Subject: KR>Insurance & Liability > >> As a non-KR-owner, I can only contribute to this thread from a >> lawyer/pilot's general perspective: >> >> 1. Any airport, even public, has the right to set the conditions for >> planes based there, as long as the conditions are applied equally, including >> requiring reasonable liability insurance. >> 2. The states shouldn't be able to require insurance on airplanes, like >> they do on cars, since aviation has been held to be so "inherently Federal >> in nature" that states can't even interfere in it (for example, by requiring >> an additional state pilot's license). I don't know of any state that does >> so. >> 3. Many airports do require liability insurance, but this is usually >> enforced by merely having a statement on the rental form that the owner has >> it and will keep it. I have never been asked to produce a copy of the policy >> or binder. >> 4. A statement on the rental agreement that you have insurance doesn't >> affect your liability to whomever you injure or damage subsequently at that >> airport, but it does give the airport a contractual action against you in >> addition to the victim's lawsuit. I cannot imagine why an airport would sue >> under this clause. I would stress, however, that if there were an accident >> involving a mechanical malfunction in an experimental aircraft--something >> laymen would find quite foreseeable--and it were shown that the owner/pilot >> had lied on his application about having insurance, it wouldn't look so >> good. This would be especially true if an innocent victim were to sustain >> great pain and disfigurement and a million dollars in medical bills, and is >> now faced with a cash-strapped owner and no insurance company. >> 5. Although this is a little off-topic, I would recommend to any owner of >> an uninsured aircraft that he put the plane's record (FAA) ownership in the >> name of a corporation. Although there are some simple things--primarily >> regarding registering the company and keeping corporate accounts >> separate--that the corporation must do, this affords strong protection >> against personal lawsuits AS OWNER OF THE AIRCRAFT. This doesn't help a >> negligent pilot, who can always be sued for his own negligence, but it does >> help to protect an owner and non-negligent pilot. Negligence can be hard to >> prove in aviation cases, so corporate ownership is well worth the money. >> There is nothing improper about placing an airplane under corporate >> ownership, but of course the corporation has to be formed properly BEFORE a >> claim arises. The internet is full of advice on how to do it--some states >> charge as little as $60. >> >> Above is not legal advice--an aircraft owner should talk to a lawyer in his >> jurisdiction regarding whether he needs or should have insurance. >> >> Max Hardberger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > >-- >____________________________________________ >http://www.operamail.com >Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year > > >Powered by Outblaze > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > -- Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Jim Eason V.P, 770-446-1291, Atlanta, Georgia Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:01:48 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:46:29 -0500 From: "David McKelvey4764" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Take off that cowbay hat Oscar! Dave McKelvey, Grapevine, TX davmck@witty.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:02 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:05:08 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030813090508.007bb4c0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 >Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike >helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my >head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. >Oscar Zuniga +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The KR design lends itself well to modification and there is no reason to build an airplane (KR) that you are not comfortable in or that does not fit the builder. As someone posted eariler (Dan, I believe), build your seat assembly before starting on the turtledeck/canopy/windshield. Have someone measure your body using a bubble level placed on your head and measure to the top of the seat back or longerons for a reference. I used foam and formed plywood bows to build my canopy/gullwing door/turtledeck to the height I knew would work for me. I extended the gullwing door area approx 7.5 inches vertically above the longerons before arcing over to the top at a height I knew would give me the headroom I wanted. I used a 32 gallon trash can lid to give me the arc from side to top and it worked out very well. There are some pictures on Mark Langford's web site if you care to check out the results. As always, your results may vary. Larry ( trying to get the grin off my face while I taxi ) Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:05:53 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Insurance Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030813090553.007e3100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 I have been having trouble getting ( liability ) insurance for my KR as I'm doing final assembly and getting ready to fly. Yesterday I called Avemco and they indicated they would insure me for $989 a year !! I have not yet completed the paperwork and secured a "binder" on the insurance so that could change. I believe the only reason they will insure me is that I'm not using a "car motor" (their discription) in the airplane. The could have shown a little respect for all the "bug" motors pulling airplanes around the sky and called them "non-certified" engines. I'm using an 0-200 but I still felt a bit insulted on behalf of all the Sube and VW drivers out there. I hope to wait until the day before my first flight, secure 90 days of coverage with a credit card, and then try to get through my test phase before the 90 days are up. At that point I hope to secure a much more reasonable quote. I'll keep you posted. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:25:25 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Insurance Message-ID: <20030813142525.4473.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Larry, I was paying $800+ for ground only coverage including $15 Hull/theft about three years ago through Sky Smith. Your rate actually sounds pretty good. How many hours TT do you have, and Tail wheel time? Maybe I need to check with Avemco. ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:05:53 -0500 To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Insurance > > > > I have been having trouble getting ( liability ) insurance for my KR > as I'm doing final assembly and getting ready to fly. > > Yesterday I called Avemco and they indicated they would > insure me for $989 a year !! I have not yet completed the > paperwork and secured a "binder" on the insurance so that > could change. I believe the only reason they will insure me > is that I'm not using a "car motor" (their discription) in the > airplane. The could have shown a little respect for all the > "bug" motors pulling airplanes around the sky and called > them "non-certified" engines. I'm using an 0-200 but I > still felt a bit insulted on behalf of all the Sube and VW > drivers out there. > > I hope to wait until the day before my first flight, secure 90 days > of coverage with a credit card, and then try to get through my > test phase before the 90 days are up. At that point I hope to > secure a much more reasonable quote. > > I'll keep you posted. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:28:35 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Message-ID: <20030813142835.7045.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 If I had some photos of My KR online I could direct folks to them.. My canopy is displaced up slightly to allow for extra head clearance. And sweeps down towards the turtledeck. It reminded me of some modern aircraft when I did it, but I can't recall what aircraft or helicopter I modeled it after. Who knows what this will do to in-flight drag, but I've got a reasonable amount of headroom. I'm working on getting my N541RY.com domain back. (I let it expire and someone bought it due to all the KR-net traffic... looks like I should sell stuff on it). I have secured some other N541RY domains last night (n541ry.us). Hopefully I will have my domain up by next week. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:01:48 -0500 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck > Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike > helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my > head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:59:50 -0500 From: "Bart and Kelly Gaffney" To: Subject: KR>Old KR 1 is New to Me Message-ID: <00a001c361ab$8c8da1e0$210110ac@DAD1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 21 Good KR people, After joining your newsgroup and following your threads as well as = helping myself to your archives, I must say this is a World Class = association. The likes that can only be hoped for with other support and builders = groups. Im greatful for the opportunity to learn from all your = contributions. I have reciently taken delivery of an older KR1. All Documentation, = Building logs, Original plans etc, are in tact. Serial # is 2124. The = plane is less engine (Originally a VW 1200 then replaced with a 1700 and = now just empty) and no instruments. This specific KR1 was listed "For = Sale" on your news group receintly. It was built as a side-stick, open cockpit and small turtle deck, and = the front cowling resembles something more like a loaf of bread, rather = than the sleek and sexy cowling of Richard Shirley's KR1. While the = Woodwork appears to be sound, the cosmetics of the composite work leaves = much to be desired. Fortunately for me, Im within a few miles of Mark Jones here in WI. = (Mark and I have a mutual friend building a Sonnex who is also working = on a Corvair Powerplant.) First questions are:, at 6' 1" with a KR1 built to original specs, can = the seat be moved back to accomodate a pilot of my height. "Ive sat in it and made airplane noises. Its a snug fit and the leg room = is really not workable for someone my height. Conversion from Side to Center Stick, Has anyone tried it as an = after-the-fact retrofit? Now is the time for any fixes, updates, etc, that make the KR1 perform = better. (The retractable gear is gone , replaced by a fibreglass spring = gear) Suggestions are more than welcome. Is this eligable in the proposed Sport Plane catagory? Many thanks to all in advance. More pesky questions to follow.=20 Bart Gaffney - Oconomowoc, WI ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 126, Issue 1 *************************************