From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 134, Issue 1 Date: Thursday, August 21, 2003 12:02 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: new KR builder - spar question 2. Re: new KR builder - spar question (Mike Turner) 3. BOTTOM SKIN. (JOHN SAUNDERS) 4. PCB (Colin) 5. Re: Turtledeck heigth (Dan Heath) 6. Re: Turtledeck heigth (Mark Langford) 7. Re: Question (larry severson) 8. Re: Question (gleone) 9. progress report/pics (larry flesner) 10. Re: progress report/pics (larry flesner) 11. 6" tailwheel (Oscar Zuniga) 12. pneumatic 6" tailwheel (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:22:06 GMT From: red-bridge@juno.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>new KR builder - spar question Message-ID: <20030820.132236.1733.5931@webmail15.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 Thanks, Mike. The plans did not make this clear. Were I already building, I'd be starting on effort no. 2. (I know. I wouldn't be the first.) I've already learned a great deal from this and other KR sites. Keith C. Krumwiede ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:15:09 -0500 From: "Mike Turner" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>new KR builder - spar question Message-ID: References: <20030820.132236.1733.5931@webmail15.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 Keith, you need to read the plans and manual very carefully and then = read them again. It's the little things that'll get you. For example be = carefull to run the grain of the plywood vertical not horz. for the = spars. It makes a difference! Mike Turner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: red-bridge@juno.com=20 To: krnet@mylist.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:22 PM Subject: Re: KR>new KR builder - spar question Thanks, Mike. The plans did not make this clear. Were I already = building, I'd be starting on effort no. 2. (I know. I wouldn't be the = first.) I've already learned a great deal from this and other KR sites. =20 Keith C. Krumwiede _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:13:50 -0400 From: JOHN SAUNDERS To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>BOTTOM SKIN. Message-ID: <3F440EBE.31D6AE56@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Does the bottom skin go on lengthwise or crosswise? (1 scarf join or several?) Thanks, John Saunders. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:26:31 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>PCB Message-ID: <002701c36772$7d15cfe0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Netters, I would think that using something more tried and true as a substitute = to the plywood would be in order, rather than playing in the dark. In = my opinion, without being able to test a plywood spar right next to a = PCB covered spar and compare performance, it seems one would be taking = some big chances. Why not use carbon fiber in conjunction with the wood = to construct the spar? The Velocity kit plane is manufactured that way, = and seems to hold up well. There also seems to be alot more documented = evidence of the capabilities of carbon fiber used in spar applications = than the PCB. Carbon fiber would allow for the strength, but maintain = the necessary flexibility. Just some thoughts... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 20 16:27:19 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.43]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19pcMJ-00053x-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:27:19 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h7KNSYqO013332 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301c36772$c5969a60$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:28:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Bottom Skins X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: John, Save yourself alot of time and frustration and review Mark Langford's = website. He has both pics and detailed descriptions of his construction = and will answer most of your questions.=20 Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From barryk@tpg.com.au Wed Aug 20 17:21:37 2003 Received: from mta03ps.bigpond.com ([144.135.25.157]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19pdCr-0005Mv-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:21:37 -0700 Received: from t1w419 ([144.135.25.75]) by mta03ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HJY0047F0YFP3@mta03ps.email.bigpond.com> for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:20:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from c233.37.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.37.233]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 83/23855986); Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:20:39 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:13:13 +1000 From: Barry Kruyssen To: krnet@mylist.net Message-id: <00cb01c36779$c0330a20$0300a8c0@t1w419> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Contacting KR2 owners in Australia, Brisbane or Cairns areas X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hi, I'm trying to contact KR2 owners in Australia, Brisbane or Cairns areas. I'm looking to buy a KR2 completed with only 1 test flight and I want/need some guidance. (I've never flown one) Thanks Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:18:52 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Turtledeck heigth Message-ID: <3F441DFC.000001.03972@Computer> References: <003f01c366c6$e5aec5e0$10fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Bill,=0D =0D heigth from the longeron to the top of the turtledeck at the point behind the back seat. I know everyone's may be a little different but I am interested in this for a couple reasons. =0D =0D I just measured ours. Verticle from the top front edge of the shelf, it = is 15" and measured from the shelf, along the line that the seat back takes from the front edge of the aft spar to the front edge of the shelf, it is= 16 =2E This is measured in the center of the cockpit.=0D =0D =0D 1) How much variation is there out there between heigths =0D =0D Probably not too much with the exception of a few that are special made f= or a tall person like Larry F. I think that the real difference is that on = the stock KR, the T-Deck is very round, so all the height is in the center.=20 Ours and many others have squared it off a little to take that height out= to where your head is.=0D =0D =0D 2) Does anybody have info about how much the heigth affects speed? =0D =0D =0D I would suppose that this could be calculated for a standard KR, but so m= any other things affect the speed that it would be really hard to tell. In other words, I have never seen any such specs.=0D =0D =0D 3) How does heigth affect rudder/elevator control... =0D =0D Again, I don't know that either, but I'll bet the answer is...... Pends= =2E=0D =0D =0D I am 5'9" and Jerry is around 5'11" and we both have plenty of room. Fir= st, get as much as you can from the seats and then take what you need and don= 't worry about it.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From flykr2s@wi.rr.com Wed Aug 20 18:36:03 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.166.122]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19peMo-00067T-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:35:58 -0700 Received: from mark (CPE-65-31-89-55.wi.rr.com [65.31.89.55]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with SMTP id h7L1ajsP024887 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:37:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000b01c36785$6025b0e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <003f01c366c6$e5aec5e0$10fcd241@clapp> <3F441DFC.000001.03972@Computer> Subject: Re: KR>Turtledeck heigth Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:41:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I am 5'11" and just measured my Turtledeck height at 17.75" from the top of the shelf to the bottom of the Turtledeck at the centermost point. I have more than enough headroom even with my headset on. I also have a long torso compared to having long legs. 30" stride in pant size. The best way to do a seat is keep it as low as possible (mine is 2" off the floor at the rear) and then sit in the seat and get measured up for the Turtledeck height. I honestly do not feel there will be any noticeable effects between the Turtledeck heights. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:18 PM Subject: Re: KR>Turtledeck heigth Bill, heigth from the longeron to the top of the turtledeck at the point behind the back seat. I know everyone's may be a little different but I am interested in this for a couple reasons. I just measured ours. Verticle from the top front edge of the shelf, it is 15" and measured from the shelf, along the line that the seat back takes from the front edge of the aft spar to the front edge of the shelf, it is 16 . This is measured in the center of the cockpit. 1) How much variation is there out there between heigths Probably not too much with the exception of a few that are special made for a tall person like Larry F. I think that the real difference is that on the stock KR, the T-Deck is very round, so all the height is in the center. Ours and many others have squared it off a little to take that height out to where your head is. 2) Does anybody have info about how much the heigth affects speed? I would suppose that this could be calculated for a standard KR, but so many other things affect the speed that it would be really hard to tell. In other words, I have never seen any such specs. 3) How does heigth affect rudder/elevator control... Again, I don't know that either, but I'll bet the answer is...... Pends. I am 5'9" and Jerry is around 5'11" and we both have plenty of room. First, get as much as you can from the seats and then take what you need and don't worry about it. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:46:19 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Turtledeck heigth Message-ID: <002001c36786$05489fb0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <003f01c366c6$e5aec5e0$10fcd241@clapp><3F441DFC.000001.03972@Computer> <000b01c36785$6025b0e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 My aft deck is 17.25" above the longerons, with the canopy continuing to rise to the same 17.5" dimension that I scaled from the KR2S drawing included with the plans. So mine is a "stock" KR2S from that respect. I'm right at 6 feet tall, my seat is about 1.5" from the bottom of the plane, and my headset will almost touch the Dragonfly canopy while flying, even without a cushion. Dan's advice to set up the seat AT THE FLOOR is excellent, and then adjust the canopy height to give you two inches or so of clearance. I will have to make a new seat shortly after flying, so I don't bounce off the canopy in choppy skies. The Dragonfly canopy's shape is very similar to that of the stock KR2S (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html for more details on that). Definitely do the canopy first, and then the aft deck. You need the canopy in place when you build the aft deck, unless you like discontinuous flow lines and the disconcerting look that comes along with it, not to mention drag... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:00:20 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Question Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820205846.00b73590@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <3F438CF0.000001.02776@DDMWDD11> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030819173720.00af3648@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Unfortunately, I am working with a standard KR2 wing built, except for the wing tips. I will have to come up with alternatives. >The easiest way is to spend a little extra buying longer wood. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 02:53:09 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: Re: KR>Question Message-ID: <3F448875.000004.03920@DDMWDD11> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820205846.00b73590@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 The winglettes become your wing tips so you're in a good position to add= a couple of feet to the wings. =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 22:00:43=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR>Question=0D =0D Unfortunately, I am working with a standard KR2 wing built, except for th= e=0D wing tips. I will have to come up with alternatives.=0D =0D >The easiest way is to spend a little extra buying longer wood.=0D =0D Larry Severson=0D Fountain Valley, CA 92708=0D (714) 968-9852=0D larry2@socal.rr.com=0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:23:40 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>progress report/pics Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030821072340.007f64e0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <3F441DFC.000001.03972@Computer> References: <003f01c366c6$e5aec5e0$10fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 Netters, I e-mailed Mark Langford an updated picture of my KR in her new white paint. Go to the net web page and click on my name in the projects. Mark posted two new pictures at the top of my site so you don't have to wait for a long download. I'll finish it off with vinyl trim at some point. THREE WEEKS FROM THIS MORNING I HEAD TO RED OAK !! Thanks Mark and have a nice day. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:28:11 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>progress report/pics Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030821072811.007f99b0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030821072340.007f64e0@pop.midwest.net> References: <3F441DFC.000001.03972@Computer> <003f01c366c6$e5aec5e0$10fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 Go to the net web page and click on my >name in the projects. >Larry +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That would be Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:45:08 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>6" tailwheel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 Larry wrote- >I sure wish I could find a pnuematic 6" tailwheel to replace that >hard rubber wheel I have now but so far no luck. I have a 6" semi-pneumatic one on my "Flying Squirrel" but it hasn't flown yet so I don't know how much softer this one is than a solid. There is a picture at http://www.flysquirrel.net/gear/P1090006.jpg and I believe I got it from W.W. Grainger... look at http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611763914 Larry, I'd be happy to box this unit up and get it going your way to try out if you'd like because it's just sitting here doing nothing at the moment. Note that it has a 1/2" axle bore with a Zerk for regreasing. Contact me off-net if I can help you. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:30:00 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>pneumatic 6" tailwheel Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030821083000.007f1360@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 >I have a 6" semi-pneumatic one on my "Flying Squirrel" but it hasn't flown >yet so I don't know how much softer this one is than a solid. >Oscar Zuniga ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Oscar, Thanks for the offer. I think I have a 6" pneumatic now if I can iron out some details like finding a bearing with 1/2" I.D. and 7/8" O.D. and 1/4" thick. Each time I think I've cleared a hurdle I trip on another detail but I keep getting closer to what I want. Larry Flesner - THREE WEEKS TO RED OAK !!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 134, Issue 1 *************************************