From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 145, Issue 1 Date: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:56 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cowling 2. Re: Re: vertical winglets (Barry Kruyssen) 3. Re: Re: vertical winglets (Mark Langford) 4. Re: Re: vertical winglets (Barry Kruyssen) 5. assembly plant (gerald locker) 6. Re: assembly plant (robert glidden) 7. Cocpit Widths (Gavin Donohoe) 8. Re: assembly plant (Timothy Bellville) 9. Re: assembly plant (Dan Heath) 10. Re: assembly plant (Dana Overall) 11. RE: Re: vertical winglets (Serge F. Vidal) 12. Re: Re: vertical winglets (Mark Langford) 13. Re: assembly plant (gerald locker) 14. Cocpit Widths (Larry A Capps) 15. Re: assembly plant (Mark Youkey) 16. Re: assembly plant (Timothy Bellville) 17. RE: assembly plant (Serge F. Vidal) 18. Re: assembly plant (Ross Youngblood) 19. Factory Building (Colin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:42:55 EDT From: Goreebethray@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Cowling Message-ID: <1c3.e5b95c5.2c83b7cf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 I do not personally know about a new engine cowling from R.R. I am thinking about buying one for my KR2S. I do have a cowling for a KR2. It has an air inlet at the bottom center location. I did split it top and bottom to widen it to make a cowling for my KR2S. It could be fiberglassed to reattach. If I can't find a new or used cowling, I will make you a good deal on the one that I have. Ray Goree ( goreebethray@aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:54:57 +1000 From: Barry Kruyssen To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <021d01c37012$ea505000$0300a8c0@t1w419> References: <003701c36f14$5f0fb5c0$6401a8c0@greg> <022201c36f17$2c66a040$1202a8c0@basement> <000101c36f96$cff19740$a66ecacb@amipentium200> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 2 > > I thought winglets recovered waste energy derived from induced drag, that > is, the wing tip vortices. Is not induced drag greatest at large angles of > attack viz. usually at low speeds? Obviously, on balance, the recovered > energy over all flight attitudes is worth the manufacturers while. > I'd have to agree with John's comments, though I'm not so technical. I come from a gliding back ground and have flown a glider without winglets which was then retro fitted with them. (A Hornet single seat glider) Improvement in aileron control at low speeds was the most significant improvement. Initial and final ground roll. During thermalling the Hornet had a tendency to drop a wing and this was greatly reduced, also climbing performance was improved while thermalling. There is an Aussie KR2 builder who is building winglets for his aircraft and I'll be looking at these with in the next couple of weeks the see about retro fitting to my KR2, which I've just bought second hand. Regards Barry Kruyssen bgk42@tpg.com.au Australia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:12:18 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <031801c37026$183d13f0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <003701c36f14$5f0fb5c0$6401a8c0@greg> <022201c36f17$2c66a040$1202a8c0@basement> <000101c36f96$cff19740$a66ecacb@amipentium200> <021d01c37012$ea505000$0300a8c0@t1w419> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 > Improvement in aileron control at low speeds was the most significant > improvement. Hmmm. I wasn't aware that KRs had a problem with aileron control at low speeds... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:45:48 +1000 From: Barry Kruyssen To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <026601c3702a$c6815d50$0300a8c0@t1w419> References: <003701c36f14$5f0fb5c0$6401a8c0@greg> <022201c36f17$2c66a040$1202a8c0@basement> <000101c36f96$cff19740$a66ecacb@amipentium200> <021d01c37012$ea505000$0300a8c0@t1w419> <031801c37026$183d13f0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 4 > > Improvement in aileron control at low speeds was the most significant > > improvement. > > Hmmm. I wasn't aware that KRs had a problem with aileron control at low > speeds... > As a relatively low hour power pilot, who is going to operate from short strips, anything that improves handling and climb performance is worth considering. Also I'd like to know how big a difference a belly flap makes on approach and landing and how hard to reto fit. (I did say short strips :-) But as always I'm open to all suggestions, idears and .......... Barry Kruyssen kr2@bigpond.com > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:47:41 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030901024741.12522.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 Dear Sirs, My partner and I are opening up an assembly plant in Tijuana, Mexico in June of 2004 once I return from Thailand. We are going to make the KR series, both stock and custom and could use any help that anyone might have concerning the VW engine, to instrumentation for VFR, oxygen system, BRS, and Avionics. We would also like to know if there is an easier way to make it than using the old fashion fiber glassing. Is there a newer product that can be laid at one time that is stronger, quicker, and easier to do? We are interested in hearing from retired individuals who may have had the opportunity to work more hours at a time on their planes. Sincerely, Gerald Locker, Managing Director M&L Aviation of the Americas My email is brigadier192003@yahoo.com and my phone/fax here in Thailand is 66-2-916-7504. You would have to dial the international code first. I believe that is 011 from the States. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:04:02 -0500 From: "robert glidden" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <002a01c37046$7648a5c0$0c00000a@glidden> References: <20030901024741.12522.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Just something about airplanes and cheap labor that don't seem like a good plan.Maybe I'm wrong,but atleast building I know what I've got.I would hate to see this nice little "HOME BUILT" go in this direction. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gerald locker" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: KR>assembly plant > Dear Sirs, > > My partner and I are opening up an assembly plant in > Tijuana, Mexico in June of 2004 once I return from > Thailand. We are going to make the KR series, both > stock and custom and could use any help that anyone > might have concerning the VW engine, to > instrumentation for VFR, oxygen system, BRS, and > Avionics. We would also like to know if there is an > easier way to make it than using the old fashion > fiber glassing. Is there a newer product that can be > laid at one time that is stronger, quicker, and easier > to do? We are interested in hearing from retired > individuals who may have had the opportunity to work > more hours at a time on their planes. > > Sincerely, > > Gerald Locker, Managing Director > M&L Aviation of the Americas > My email is brigadier192003@yahoo.com and my phone/fax > here in Thailand is 66-2-916-7504. You would have to > dial the international code first. I believe that is > 011 from the States. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:50:10 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Cocpit Widths Message-ID: <000c01c3706e$6fcc9da0$f84d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 7 I've been studying the plans for a few days now, and you can imagine my surprise to find out that the KR2S plans don't actually allow for widening of the cockpit in the area that we sit !!! I always assumed that the cockpit was stretched as well as everything else, I've got a Grumman Tiger at the moment too and it's 40" inside at the sitting position. How many have stretched the KR2S to about 40" inside measurements and how do they look ??? I don't to widen it and look like a pregnant goldfish! How do they perform at this size? Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:59:28 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <001701c3706f$c0ca4cb0$485f570c@donnas> References: <20030901024741.12522.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 "old fashion fiber glassing"??? When did it become old? ----- Original Message ----- From: "gerald locker" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: KR>assembly plant > Dear Sirs, > > My partner and I are opening up an assembly plant in > Tijuana, Mexico in June of 2004 once I return from > Thailand. We are going to make the KR series, both > stock and custom and could use any help that anyone > might have concerning the VW engine, to > instrumentation for VFR, oxygen system, BRS, and > Avionics. We would also like to know if there is an > easier way to make it than using the old fashion > fiber glassing. Is there a newer product that can be > laid at one time that is stronger, quicker, and easier > to do? We are interested in hearing from retired > individuals who may have had the opportunity to work > more hours at a time on their planes. > > Sincerely, > > Gerald Locker, Managing Director > M&L Aviation of the Americas > My email is brigadier192003@yahoo.com and my phone/fax > here in Thailand is 66-2-916-7504. You would have to > dial the international code first. I believe that is > 011 from the States. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:29:59 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <3F531FA7.000001.03536@Computer> References: <002a01c37046$7648a5c0$0c00000a@glidden> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Don't worry, it won't. If this is not a hoax, which I suspect it is, the= se people have no idea what they are doing. Oxygen systems on a KR????? =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 01 03:34:32 2003 Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.116]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tm12-0004nA-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:34:32 -0700 Received: from donnas (72.detroit12rh16rt.mi.dial-access.att.net[12.87.95.72]) by mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <20030901103618112006110ue>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:36:18 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c37074$f1490e80$485f570c@donnas> From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <20030901024741.12522.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:36:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit the widow of the man that designed this plain and construction concept. Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay them royalties? This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, and built by people that could not afford a Cessna. You are trying to stand on the shoulders of others to make a buck. I for one, do not want to see a bunch of "factory built" KR's showing up on NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this well designed and conceived aircraft. Come up with your own concept, and hire a Aeronautical engineer to invent your new store-bought and leave the KR's to those that love to build and fly them. I for one will not help you, and I don't think you will find much help here! Timothy Bellville (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:42:24 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 >From: gerald locker > >My partner and I are opening up an assembly plant in >Tijuana, Mexico in June of 2004 once I return from >Thailand. We are going to make the KR series, both >stock and custom and could use any help that anyone >might have concerning the VW engine,....................... Clueless from the beginning?? to >instrumentation for VFR, As little as possible oxygen system, Do what?? BRS, and >Avionics. Nothing else needs to be said. We would also like to know if there is an >easier way to make it than using the old fashion >fiber glassing. Is there a newer product that can be >laid at one time that is stronger, quicker, and easier >to do? My goodness, please refer to Composite 101 or freshman orientation. And he says he wants to open a shop?? Gotta go with Dan here gang............this has hoax or "send me your money" written all over it. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:18:41 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <000b01c37087$c0dbec00$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <02bc01c36fc9$72622490$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Retrofitting winglets to existing planes seems to happen all the time... in the glider world. A colleague of mine owns a glider that she recently upgraded that way. There seems to be kits readily available for that, and glider pilots are very enthusiastic about them. Another thing they are crazy about is Mylar tape seal, intended to seal the gap between the control surfaces and the wing. Now, I really can't tell whether these things work, owner's opinions are too biased to be considered. But they sure look modern, and maybe that's enough! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 3:09 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets John Martindale wrote: > Aye Mark, are you in the mood for an aerodynamic debate? :-) Nope, not at all. I don't know diddly about aerodynamics, so it would be a lopsided debate. I just threw out the only tidbit I remember about winglets. I've seen various formulas for making them, and they have lots of variables. It takes about 5 minutes to sand a Hoerner tip onto a wing. It probably takes a lot more time and experimentation to get winglets set up properly. But I'd be the last to stand in your way if that's what you want to do to your KR. What I'd like to see is winglets retrofitted to an existing plane, and then report back on the differences in all flight regimes. I doubt the improvements would be worth the time expended, but you guys are more than welcome to prove me wrong... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:29:56 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <035501c3708d$22501880$1202a8c0@basement> References: <000b01c37087$c0dbec00$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Most of what I find on the web regarding winglets has to do with sailplanes, which are at the slow end of the speed spectrum. KRs operate at considerably higher speeds, so I'd wonder if there's not a compromise somewhere without actual testing on a KR. I might be talked into testing that later on, as wing tips is something I'd like to experiment with later, once I'm flying and have some performance numbers to work with. For those who want to do more research, see http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason/AeroWinglets.html . Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:59:41 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030901145941.86538.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002201c37074$f1490e80$485f570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 --- Timothy Bellville wrote: > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the > wheel. > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit the > widow of the man that > designed this plain and construction concept. > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay them > royalties? > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, and > built by people that > could not afford a Cessna. > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of others > to make a buck. > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of "factory > built" KR's showing up on > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this well > designed and conceived > aircraft. > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > Aeronautical engineer to invent > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to those > that love to build and fly > them. > I for one will not help you, and I don't think you > will find much help here! > Timothy Bellville > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V Dear Mr. Bellville, I appreciat your response though I cannot agree with you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I are going to be working with Jenette at RR in every kit we buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly will be paying royalties to her. \ We decided on the KR series since it incorporates everything we sought in a good airplane. It has the range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for our sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. We are building it because we feel that many would like to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a relatively inexpensive price, and without having to spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound program being set up and I am always open to suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family of owners and pilots. I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the building process and realize that the more I know, the better the plane will be. We want to include a BRS, a portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, not an option. I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any sound advice to us because we are always ready to listen. My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend to do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts to be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to the general public. We are spending our own money, and we want no ones money except those that are buying our product. We care for the plane as much as anyone else does. Our questions I asked still could use some answers. Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider and write again. Thank You, Gerald Locker > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:52:07 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: KR>Cocpit Widths Message-ID: <000b01c370a0$ffc95a10$0200a8c0@schpankme> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3706e$6fcc9da0$f84d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Gav, One of the easiest ways to widen the KR2S is to first adopt vertical sides (no taper), then set your widest (width) point at the rear spar tapering to the firewall. Larry A Capps NAperville, IL -----Original Message----- I've been studying the plans for a few days now, can imagine my surprise the KR2S plans don't actually allow for widening of the cockpit in the area that we sit !!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:00:51 -0500 From: "Mark Youkey" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <001701c370a2$3782aeb0$7e7e0c44@blah> References: <20030901145941.86538.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 BGen Locker, Perhaps you should research some of the specs, then apply some common sense, before you get too involved. For instance, what is the service ceiling of a KR? At what altitude do the Marine Corps regs say the pilot must be on oxygen? What VFR pilots use that altitude block? (Cancel my IFR clearance, this is a 4-ship RTB VFR, descending below 18,000, squawking 1200, wingmen squawking standby.) Or perhaps someone climbing over a mountain, but that's about it...So, why is a portable oxygen system (that weighs at least ten pounds of your 35 pound baggage limit) going to be standard? Just a thought for you to consider a bit more, to assist your endeavors. Why exactly will your plant be in Tijuana? I'm curious. v/r Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ----- Original Message ----- From: "gerald locker" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:59 AM Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > > --- Timothy Bellville > wrote: > > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the > > wheel. > > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit the > > widow of the man that > > designed this plain and construction concept. > > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay them > > royalties? > > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, and > > built by people that > > could not afford a Cessna. > > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of others > > to make a buck. > > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of "factory > > built" KR's showing up on > > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this well > > designed and conceived > > aircraft. > > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > > Aeronautical engineer to invent > > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to those > > that love to build and fly > > them. > > I for one will not help you, and I don't think you > > will find much help here! > > Timothy Bellville > > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V > > Dear Mr. Bellville, > > I appreciat your response though I cannot agree with > you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I are > going to be working with Jenette at RR in every kit we > buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly will > be paying royalties to her. \ > We decided on the KR series since it incorporates > everything we sought in a good airplane. It has the > range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for our > sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. We > are building it because we feel that many would like > to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a > relatively inexpensive price, and without having to > spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound > program being set up and I am always open to > suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family of > owners and pilots. > I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 > years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the > building process and realize that the more I know, the > better the plane will be. We want to include a BRS, a > portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, > transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, not an > option. > I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any > sound advice to us because we are always ready to > listen. > My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy > Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend to > do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts to > be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to the > general public. We are spending our own money, and we > want no ones money except those that are buying our > product. We care for the plane as much as anyone else > does. Our questions I asked still could use some > answers. > > Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider and > write again. > > Thank You, > > Gerald Locker > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:06:18 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <002c01c370ab$5d682250$205f570c@donnas> References: <20030901145941.86538.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Perhaps, the problem here is the way you presented your self to us, Surly you can see why some of us are apprehensive to things such as your venture, if you have an arrangement with Jeanette, you should have been up front with it. As vast as the internet is and originating in another country,skepticism should be expected. If you are only seeking information about a possible business venture that has the blessing of R/R Inc., Then there are many people more qualified to give it then I. I too am interested why you choose to built out side the United States. I am also a former Marine, But I fail to see why it should be an issue. As far as your parameters for your finished product, my personal opinion is that it is over built and too heavy in your configuration. Just my humble $.02 Timothy Bellville ----- Original Message ----- From: "gerald locker" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > > --- Timothy Bellville > wrote: > > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the > > wheel. > > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit the > > widow of the man that > > designed this plain and construction concept. > > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay them > > royalties? > > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, and > > built by people that > > could not afford a Cessna. > > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of others > > to make a buck. > > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of "factory > > built" KR's showing up on > > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this well > > designed and conceived > > aircraft. > > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > > Aeronautical engineer to invent > > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to those > > that love to build and fly > > them. > > I for one will not help you, and I don't think you > > will find much help here! > > Timothy Bellville > > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V > > Dear Mr. Bellville, > > I appreciat your response though I cannot agree with > you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I are > going to be working with Jenette at RR in every kit we > buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly will > be paying royalties to her. \ > We decided on the KR series since it incorporates > everything we sought in a good airplane. It has the > range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for our > sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. We > are building it because we feel that many would like > to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a > relatively inexpensive price, and without having to > spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound > program being set up and I am always open to > suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family of > owners and pilots. > I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 > years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the > building process and realize that the more I know, the > better the plane will be. We want to include a BRS, a > portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, > transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, not an > option. > I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any > sound advice to us because we are always ready to > listen. > My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy > Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend to > do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts to > be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to the > general public. We are spending our own money, and we > want no ones money except those that are buying our > product. We care for the plane as much as anyone else > does. Our questions I asked still could use some > answers. > > Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider and > write again. > > Thank You, > > Gerald Locker > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:20:45 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <000301c370ae$11408f90$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <20030901145941.86538.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 Dear Mr Locker, Please, do not pay too much attention to the tone of the replies you will get from this network. KR builders are passionate people, and as such, easily make passionate statements. That's part of the fun of belonging in this community. Yet, among us, commonsense prevails. If your intentions are honest, and if you are serious about making series production of anything that can be used in a KR, let alone KRs themselves, you will only have more friends! This being said, a few things you say are surprising. For instance, the KR has a low service ceiling, low enough to make oxygen redundant; and anything redundant in such a light aircraft is not always welcome. Also, I am not too sure that the KR2's architecture is well suited for production. People trying to do what you say (build an affordable small plane) generally go for fiberglass monocoque construction, not wood-and-fiberglass. There must be some reasons for that...which I'm sure we will be happy to debate in lengths! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of gerald locker Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 4:00 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant --- Timothy Bellville wrote: > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the > wheel. > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit the > widow of the man that > designed this plain and construction concept. > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay them > royalties? > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, and > built by people that > could not afford a Cessna. > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of others > to make a buck. > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of "factory > built" KR's showing up on > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this well > designed and conceived > aircraft. > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > Aeronautical engineer to invent > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to those > that love to build and fly > them. > I for one will not help you, and I don't think you > will find much help here! > Timothy Bellville > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V Dear Mr. Bellville, I appreciat your response though I cannot agree with you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I are going to be working with Jenette at RR in every kit we buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly will be paying royalties to her. \ We decided on the KR series since it incorporates everything we sought in a good airplane. It has the range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for our sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. We are building it because we feel that many would like to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a relatively inexpensive price, and without having to spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound program being set up and I am always open to suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family of owners and pilots. I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the building process and realize that the more I know, the better the plane will be. We want to include a BRS, a portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, not an option. I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any sound advice to us because we are always ready to listen. My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend to do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts to be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to the general public. We are spending our own money, and we want no ones money except those that are buying our product. We care for the plane as much as anyone else does. Our questions I asked still could use some answers. Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider and write again. Thank You, Gerald Locker > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:45:10 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030901174510.30686.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > Just something about airplanes and cheap labor that don't seem like a good > plan.Maybe I'm wrong,but atleast building I know what I've got.I would hate > to see this nice little "HOME BUILT" go in this direction. Lots of RV builders are benefiting from Fast Build kits that are constructed in the Phillipines. My understanding is that they are shipped to the US in containers. I don't think "cheap labor" automaticly means "poor quality". I would bet that a majority of the components in your PC/Monitor/TV etc are made with "cheap labor". I haven't been following this thread, but in general the more KR's out there the better. Better statistics on performance from a larger population sample, better options for spare/replacement parts etc. Lots of good things can come from this too... so it's not all bad. -- Ross -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:54:55 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>Factory Building Message-ID: <001801c370b2$278df450$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 19 I agree with Timothy and Dan. If it is not a hoax, then he is going = about it all wrong. I second Timothy's sentiments, and will not restate = them... Cheers all; enjoy Red Oak!!! Next year 96TA is there!!!!! Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From rossy65@operamail.com Mon Sep 01 10:53:20 2003 Received: from 205-158-62-67.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.67] helo=spf13.us4.outblaze.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 19tsrg-0008zw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:53:20 -0700 Received: from 205-158-62-68.outblaze.com (205-158-62-68.outblaze.com [205.158.62.68]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 69CD51810C38 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 17:55:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 33805 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 17:55:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.131) by 205-158-62-153.outblaze.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 17:55:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 4155 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Sep 2003 17:52:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20030901175233.4154.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [199.108.226.254] by ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for rossy65@operamail.com; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:52:33 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:52:33 +0100 Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant X-Originating-Ip: 199.108.226.254 X-Originating-Server: ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: You may find that the most labor intensive part of construction is not the fiberglass work, but the fuselage construction. Also obtaining quality spruce may be an issue... I don't know. I think if you could use pre-molded glass or do your own molds for the wings and upper decks, will be less labor intensive than the moldless method. This sounds like an interesting business. Do you think you will be marketing completed planes for Export to the US? If so, what licensing catagory? Sounds like lots of paperwork. Alternatly, you could build fast-build sub-assemblies. For example, wing spars, fuselages, things that are easily inspected and integrated into a builders experimental project. Good luck with your venture. -- Ross To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>assembly plant > Dear Sirs, > > My partner and I are opening up an assembly plant in > Tijuana, Mexico in June of 2004 once I return from > Thailand. We are going to make the KR series, both > stock and custom and could use any help that anyone > might have concerning the VW engine, to > instrumentation for VFR, oxygen system, BRS, and > Avionics. We would also like to know if there is an > easier way to make it than using the old fashion > fiber glassing. Is there a newer product that can be > laid at one time that is stronger, quicker, and easier > to do? We are interested in hearing from retired > individuals who may have had the opportunity to work > more hours at a time on their planes. > > Sincerely, > > Gerald Locker, Managing Director > M&L Aviation of the Americas > My email is brigadier192003@yahoo.com and my phone/fax > here in Thailand is 66-2-916-7504. You would have to > dial the international code first. I believe that is > 011 from the States. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 145, Issue 1 *************************************