From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 145, Issue 3 Date: Monday, September 01, 2003 6:52 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? (Al Friesen) 2. RE: Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? (Jim Faughn) 3. Re: Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? (Al Friesen) 4. Re: "KR2- A Critical Design Review" (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Cowling (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 6. aileron response 7. What carb (Colin) 8. Re: aileron response (chris gardiner) 9. KR Aileron control at low speeds? (larry flesner) 10. Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? (Mark Langford) 11. Re: assembly plant (Ron Eason) 12. Re: Assembly Plant (gerald locker) 13. Etiquette (Colin) 14. electrical tape (Mark Langford) 15. Re: assembly plant (gerald locker) 16. Re: assembly plant (gerald locker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:36:43 -0700 From: "Al Friesen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? Message-ID: <002401c3704b$26f11de0$305d7240@s8z8i0> References: <20030901175625.7416.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 All, My KR came as a built unit by Mark Edal. I have inspections dated 1994. He stretched a KR2 to 16.5' + but kept the KR2 stab and rudder. I can't lift a wing with rudder as it will increase the drop of the wing. It follows a turn nicely at 80mph without rudder input. On climbout I put a little rudder input to keep the ball centered. A little tail wagging is evident on climb at 80mph. Stall at altitude is very friendly with no buffeting just mushes along with aileron input. Slips are easy to do but I don't use them on landing, just do low approaches to reduce speed. I have a landing in Brandon, Manitoba that showed the sock out straight off the right wing (90*) and didn't bustup the plane. This is one friendly bird to fly. Al. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:14:37 -0500 From: "Jim Faughn" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? Message-ID: <016701c370bd$49639a20$7e466ad8@jfaughn> In-Reply-To: <20030901175625.7416.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 There isn't anything wrong with the KR ailerons. They work great at all speeds. Jim Faughn 891JF -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Ross Youngblood Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 12:56 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? Has anyone looked at the SIZE of a KR aileron... I can't believe there are problems with aileron response at low speeds... the darn aileron is nearly the length of the entire wingspan! Besides at REAL low speeds, i.e. Slow flight near the stall... if a wing drops, you are supposed to use rudder instead of ailearon to prevent stalling a wing. Am I missing somthing... Of cousre I haven't FLOWN my KR yet... so I am totally unaware of my birds actual flight characteristics. -- ____________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:01:32 -0700 From: "Al Friesen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: KR Aileron control at low speeds? Message-ID: <000001c3704e$f7d81780$265d7240@s8z8i0> References: <016701c370bd$49639a20$7e466ad8@jfaughn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Jim, The ailerons are fine ,just the rudder will not lift a wing. I am not sure if I can spin this bird and will not try. In all other respects she flies like my 150 did. Al ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:49:49 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>"KR2- A Critical Design Review" Message-ID: <3F53A2DD.000004.03808@Computer> References: <03b301c370b7$4a3ccad0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Mark,=0D =0D Thanks for putting that article on your site. I have to agree with the author on at least one point. I don't even have my first airplane and I know that it certainly was not the best that was ever built, but WHAT A PLANE and IT REALLY FLEW GREAT. Ask Marty and I bet he will say the sa= me. Ask Jim Faughn and I bet he will say the same. I watch Richard Shirley'= s KR1 fly and all I can say is WHAT A PLANE.=0D =0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From skyguynca@skyguynca.com Mon Sep 01 13:28:35 2003 Received: from cpqdl380-7.wac.com ([208.161.116.7]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tvHv-000Bsm-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:28:35 -0700 Received: from davids (unverified [66.124.39.119]) by lodinet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:31:09 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c370c8$0f241960$06fea8c0@davids> From: "David Mikesell" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <119.2850cee9.2c84e766@aol.com> Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:31:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: All I can say is," Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!" David Mikesell skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > Mr. Brigadier General wrote: > > I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 > years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the > building process and realize that the more I know, the > better the plane will be. We want to include a BRS, a > portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, > transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, not an > option. > > Reply: > I've been reading all the hoopla about a factory for the Kr. I enjoy the KR > Net. I receive great amounts of info. (Special thanks to Mark Langford, Dana > Overall), If there is true intent to be conjoined with Jeanette R then Mr. > Brigadier should be seeking a forum with her alone. > > My personal opinion is backed up by 20 years pure aviation. I have flown for > the Military for 10 as a Chief Warrant Officer. I have flown literally half > way around the world with 5 years over sea's even with the unfortunate > experience of going down twice. I was responsible for saving the lives of my crew and > most of my ship anyway. Of course the engine and transmission were toast. But > those that flew with me as well as myself (obviously) are still walking Gods > green earth. No medals, I did what the military trained me to do and I know I've > received the best flight training in the world. I was trained by Vietnam > veterans. > > I am licensed and qualified in both Helicopter (Huey's to the Apache) and > fixed wing. I have been slowly but surely, building my KR2S for KR netters > obvious reasons. > > I am not currently an engineer. But have been enrolled as a full time student > for the past 20 months majoring in Aerospace Engineering. With the past 5 > years as a Senior Technical writer within the Aerospace Industry. > > In my own experience, I have built them, fixed them, flown them till they > broke apart "literally", studied them, and have been writing the books on them. > > I chose this aircraft for all the reasons everyone else has. Because I love > to fly. It is not only what I do, but it is who I am. As it is for all those > that love the experience and true freedom of flight. > > Being a military man I am not surprised if Mr. Brigadier is a general. > > First of all, to even think of putting all that garbage on a well proven > platform until it is no longer a kit aircraft, until it is no longer simple to > build, until it is so heavy that it can't get off the ground and finally until it > is no longer affordable, is just like the military. > > Second, if Mr. Brigadier is a general, being a military man myself, I know > the only thing he flew for the 30 years was a desk. He may have his wings, but > that doesn't mean he actually flew. I know when my general got in my bird, I > didn't allow him to even operate the radio, and I "was" in an aviation unit. > > This aircraft I chose because I wanted to create a flying machine that would > incorporate not only the proven sound engineering of RR, but also my own > knowledge of flight experience as well as my personality. A few Pre-fabricated > parts are nice, but there still is the 51% rule to contend with as well. > > Lastly, my ethics, morality, integrity, character and tenacity to attempt to > achieve flight by my own fabrication have been shaped by the purity of the > love for flying and the machines that allow me to cheat the bounds of gravity. > > I believe that all those that are involved with this KR net forum, carry > these same traits and would speak to them as brothers of a common and noble quest. > > To Mr. Brigadier, the KR is a bird whose feathers were meant to be shaped by > the sole hands of each individual of whom so ever ventures to join in this > quest of personal accomplishment in bringing out the eagle within us....as > individuals. > > If all of us did want a factory built aircraft,.......we would......buy > Cessna. > > The journey of building the KR to reach the clouds, is what makes playing in > them, so great. > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:51:59 -0400 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Cowling Message-ID: <20030901.165331.2272.1.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I used the RR cowling and have the 2100 Revmaster. There was a lot of cutting and fitting but the look is excellant. You need to cut in the air intake for oil cooler. I dropped the bottom to accept the carb and installed ram air as well., all this took time. Don't think because it is premolded that u drill the mounting holes and your done-------it's still a lot of work--------but yes I'd do it again. On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:10:52 -0700 "Bob Sauer" writes: > It's cowling time! Has anyone bought a KR2S cowling from RR and > would comment on the fit and quality? OR one final appeal to > anyone that has a spare cowling that could be adapted to the KR2S or > is making or has a mold and could make an extra to sell, I would > appreciate hearing from someone. > > Thanks > > From: resauer@cox.net > Sun City West, AZ_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 17:00:42 EDT From: SRMAKISH@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>aileron response Message-ID: <162.25104a0a.2c850d7a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Hi Guys, Steve Makish here. I have flown my Kr in all types of situations and never once ran out of aileron control. If you taxi at 30 mph and slam the stick right and left it will rock the wings at that speed on the ground !! I have had my bird to 14,500 feet and still had good response and climbing at 300 fpm indicating 120 mph. It sure was cold up there. I put the engine to idle, set the speed at 95 mph and glided back to fort Lauderdale exec which was 70 miles away. The Kr is an honest airplane that WILL teach you what the rudder pedals are for. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:58:24 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>What carb Message-ID: <001c01c370dc$8cae8730$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Kenneth, What kind of carb are you using? Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 01 15:58:49 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.43]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19txdJ-000DSw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:58:49 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h81N0bS8011680 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002b01c370dc$f277cf40$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:01:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Powerplant setup X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Steve, What kind of powerplant carb combination due you have on your aircraft = to be able to get up to 14,500? I am really interested. Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 01 16:01:20 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.41]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19txfk-000Da9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:01:20 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h81N38vk000007 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003801c370dd$4c7671e0$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:03:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Wing wiring X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Thanks to all for the assistance on wiring the wings. I just completed = today boring a 1" hole through the foam ribs and then installing a piece = of 3/4" electrical conduit that will remain in the wing, to run the = wires through for the 3 way lights at the tip. Netters, thanks again... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From clgard@attcanada.ca Mon Sep 01 17:31:26 2003 Received: from outbox.allstream.net ([207.245.244.41]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tz4w-000GVV-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:31:26 -0700 Received: from attcanada.ca (osh-on50-166.dial.allstream.net [142.154.117.70]) by outbox.allstream.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4897B7979 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F53E53B.9030701@attcanada.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:32:59 -0400 From: chris gardiner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Projection System References: <000d01c36b75$3b70cde0$df466ad8@jfaughn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: clgard@attcanada.ca, KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Jim , I have one that I could borrow from the office but it weighs about 8 lbs. ( guesstimate) If no one else volunteers before Red Oak ( that's driving in) , let me know and I will bring it in the plane ( sigh ... another overweight flight ) . Looking forward to seeing y'all there . Hopefully Owen gets his engine back together in time ( more stuck valve issues , same as Oshkosh ) . Cheers Chris Gardiner Jim Faughn wrote: >I will be flying up to the Gathering on Thursday weather permitting. >Problem is that I typically fly with a guitar and my clothes and now a >laptop computer. So that doesn't leave much space. Mark Langford and I >presented at Oshkosh and it occurred to both of us that most of the >people that attend the Gathering don't attend Oshkosh. So, if we could >get a projection system for the Gathering, we would be happy to hook my >laptop up to it and present our 1 hour presentation that included my >landing video at the Gathering. Does anyone have a projection system >they could bring to the Gathering????? I'm sure Steve and Linda wouldn't >mind us doing our "dog and pony show" again on Saturday morning. > >Jim > >Jim Faughn >4323D Laclede Ave. >St. Louis, MO 63108 >(314)652-7659 >Email - sub @ for "at" jfaughn "at" socket.net >Web Site http://jfaughn.com > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:42:50 -0400 From: chris gardiner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>aileron response Message-ID: <3F53E78A.4090906@attcanada.ca> References: <162.25104a0a.2c850d7a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Guess I over did it on the ailerons then. My KR2S has the long wings ( 25.5 ft) and an extra foot of aileron on each outboard panel ( 84 inches) . I purposely made them longer after reading that the Diehl length wings needed more aileron in several articles ( Kitplanes etc.) . Mine are effective but not overly so . They seem about right given the extra wing length . Guess I will never know what it would have been like with the stock aileron length . Still takes a hefty throw to "rock the wings" on climb out . Cheers Chris Gardiner SRMAKISH@aol.com wrote: >Hi Guys, Steve Makish here. I have flown my Kr in all types of situations and >never once ran out of aileron control. If you taxi at 30 mph and slam the >stick right and left it will rock the wings at that speed on the ground !! I have >had my bird to 14,500 feet and still had good response and climbing at 300 >fpm indicating 120 mph. It sure was cold up there. I put the engine to idle, set >the speed at 95 mph and glided back to fort Lauderdale exec which was 70 >miles away. The Kr is an honest airplane that WILL teach you what the rudder >pedals are for. >Regards, >Steve >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:43:41 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>KR Aileron control at low speeds? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030901194341.007c5ad0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <002401c3704b$26f11de0$305d7240@s8z8i0> References: <20030901175625.7416.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 >All, >My KR came as a built unit by Mark Edal. I have inspections dated 1994. He >stretched a KR2 to 16.5' + but kept the KR2 stab and rudder. I can't lift a >wing with rudder as it will increase the drop of the wing. Al. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This came up in a conversation I had with Willie Wilson from England. He stated that his KR will also drop a wing opposite to the rudder being used. He attributed it to the 3 degrees of wing washout. That was something I was going to test in my first few hours of flight (hopefully soon) and see if I get the same response. I'd be intrested to know if someone with a flying KR that has not built in the full 3 degrees of washout get the same response or not and how many KR flyers have noted this in their flying KR. I don't remember now if he said what speeds this happens at or if it was at all speeds. By the way, Willie also said he didn't tell the inspectors that his KR exibited this little trait as they might not be too happy with it so let's keep this among KR builders and flyers. After all, I don't think it has brought any KRs out of the air yet. Larry (still assembling and an occasional taxi test) Flesner Just 10 more sunrises till Mark and I head for Red Oak in either the Tripacer or the Oldsmobile! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:11:48 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR Aileron control at low speeds? Message-ID: <03e301c370ef$2f493f50$1202a8c0@basement> References: <20030901175625.7416.qmail@operamail.com> <3.0.6.32.20030901194341.007c5ad0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Larry Flesner wrote: > I'd be interested to know if someone with a flying KR > that has not built in the full 3 degrees of washout get the same > response or not and how many KR flyers have noted this in > their flying KR. Mines not flying YET, but I built in 2.25 degrees of washout. That would be a data point, except that since my plane is different from just about everybody else's, it's only a data point for ME. > Just 10 more sunrises till Mark and I head for Red Oak > in either the Tripacer or the Oldsmobile! Unless we choose the IFR fast lane and take the GTI! Folks, the Gathering is the ONE aviation event that I wouldn't miss every year. It's become more than just a chance to check out KRs. It's good old-fashioned camaraderie at it's best. It's the one time of year that I have absolutely no place else to be, and I enjoy the conversation, and the KRs are nice too. I spent the day doing odd jobs on the KR, most notably adding the counterweights to the nose of the ailerons. They consist of 3/4" 4130 tubing filled with molten lead (yielding 3.5 pounds), encased in shrink tubing, and permanently located in place with 2 part urethane foam. That job was way easier than I had anticipated. I just used a 3/4" spade bit with two 18" extensions to drill it out, then poured in the foam and dropped in the tube. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03090110m.jpg if you don't know what I mean by aileron nose. I'll need to do a little carbon fiber "healing" next... See y'all at Red Oak!!!! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:14:41 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <010301c370ef$98524910$6401a8c0@Administration> References: <20030901145941.86538.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> <002c01c370ab$5d682250$205f570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Don't be ridicules. Are you some kind of ego nut that's lost his mind? KRRon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:18:38 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Assembly Plant Message-ID: <20030902011838.36315.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <004001c370b5$67944e70$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 --- Colin wrote: > Mr. Locker, > If it is truly your intent to build an affordable > yet safe purpose-built aircraft then you need to do > some research on this aircraft specifically. ON > Mark Langford's site there is a link to an > evaluation done by I believe Tony Bengalis the KR2 > and has ALOT of valuable information concerning this > aircraft. If your intention is to utilize this > platform in flight regimes that will use oxygen, > mandatory in civilian aircraft after 30 minutes > above 12,500 feet, or immediately after climbing > through 14,000 feet, and desire the additional > equipment for IFR operations which I gather by its > description you do, then this aircraft anywhere > close to its original configuration is NOT well > suited to the task. IT is akin to using a > carpenter's hammer and chisel to remove a driveway, > instead of a jackhammer. It will get the job done, > BUT.... A second example of a similarly designed > aircraft would be the Sonex, which like the KR2, and > KR2S is primarily designed for VFR day, and if > carefully built VFR night operations. Most here > agree that it is not stable enough for intentional > IFR operations, and powerplants designed for high > altitude operations are not practical for use in > this airframe, without considerable modification. > In my opinion, you would be better off buying the > designing software from DiVinci Technologies and > scratch building your desired aircraft, since after > modifying the KR2 to do all you want it to do, it > will not be anything close to the same plane. > Better examples to follow for your intended use are > the Lancair Legacy, Glassair, and Mustang II. > Colin Rainey KR2(td) > crainey1@cfl.rr.com > Sanford, Florida > FLY > SAFE!!!! Dear Mr. Rainey, Thank you for you advice. Perhaps I wanted too much for the plane and it is good to know that someone has an opinion that makes sense. We also thought about the Sonex but I did not like how it even looks. Best Wishes, Gerald Locker _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:23:01 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>Etiquette Message-ID: <001c01c370f0$c13a20e0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 Ed, I appreciate your remarks and would normally have responded directly as = you stated but the individuals I am asking questions to, as also in your = case did not supply their personal e-mail address as Mark has requested = you do to facilitate this direct responding. I also thought that other = KR owners would benefit from hearing about other flying aircraft setups = and configurations that are successful, since they are doing what we all = eventually want to do - FLY. Wiring again.... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From klw1953@juno.com Mon Sep 01 18:24:07 2003 Received: from m03.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.66]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tztv-000HSh-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:24:07 -0700 Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"EQtoFgNDcyLHgKPX22S71mxDa/pd01dZvY3QOFY7KPolp7GvmMt/BQ==">; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:25:19 PDT Received: (from klw1953@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H82MH3X3; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:25:19 PDT To: krnet@mylist.net Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:23:50 -0400 Subject: Re: KR>What carb Message-ID: <20030901.212351.2272.2.klw1953@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-12 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: The Rev-Flow-------------it's a good carb, just be sure to use carb heat during the winter months.These things will ice up, contrary to what I've heard. On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:58:24 -0400 "Colin" writes: > Kenneth, > What kind of carb are you using? > > Colin Rainey KR2(td) > crainey1@cfl.rr.com > Sanford, Florida > FLY SAFE!!!!_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:28:06 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>electrical tape Message-ID: <03f601c370f1$76023030$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 NetHeads, I just thought I'd throw something out there about what's become my favorite non-stick tape, electrical. Don Reid was the first guy I remember mentioning how good this stuff was, in reference to masking off the canopy while making the frame. I used duct tape originally, and upon removal, the sticky mess was quite an ordeal to contend with. Although I usually use lacquer thinner to deal with such stuff (as well as epoxy cleanup), I was afraid it would etch or craze the plexiglas, so I used denatured alcohol instead. But then I remasked parts of it with electrical tape, and I just love the stuff. Electrical tape will follow complex curves, and will even bend around corners. I just finished adding a lip around my canopy where it meets the aft deck, and one piece of electrical tape masked the deck and folded down between deck and canopy without so much as a wrinkle. It also has no texture like duct tape does, and comes in 2" and 3" widths. Packing tape is good if you need something ultra thin, but it doesn't stretch so it can't follow curves, and it's bad about wrinkling. Harbor freight sells some fine electrical tape for something like 50 centers a roll, so it's not as ridiculous as it sounds... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030902013652.32071.qmail@web20506.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002c01c370ab$5d682250$205f570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 --- Timothy Bellville wrote: > Perhaps, the problem here is the way you presented > your self to us, > Surly you can see why some of us are apprehensive to > things such as your > venture, > if you have an arrangement with Jeanette, you should > have been up front with > it. > As vast as the internet is and originating in > another country,skepticism > should be expected. > If you are only seeking information about a possible > business venture that > has the blessing of R/R Inc., Then there are many > people more qualified to > give it then I. > I too am interested why you choose to built out side > the United States. > I am also a former Marine, But I fail to see why it > should be an issue. > As far as your parameters for your finished product, > my personal opinion is > that it is over built and too heavy in your > configuration. Just my humble > $.02 > Timothy Bellville Dear Mr. Bellville, Thank you for your personal observations and comments. We are going to build the planes outside of the US because of the negative business atmosphere that seems to pervade the entire business community. We can make the planes a lot cheaper, and just as good (hopefully) there, as in California. Yes, I will be able to have a lot less wages being paid out but the people are good and hard working, and experienced. We hope to have 3-4 man crews and a general floor boss to teach them what they need to know. We are hiring only those that has experience in the various areas. It may be correct that we are wanting too much from the KR series and we may have to reevaluate our position on that. Thank you for your time. Respectfully, Gerald Locker > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gerald locker" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:59 AM > Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > > > > > > --- Timothy Bellville > > wrote: > > > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent > the > > > wheel. > > > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit > the > > > widow of the man that > > > designed this plain and construction concept. > > > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay > them > > > royalties? > > > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, > and > > > built by people that > > > could not afford a Cessna. > > > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of > others > > > to make a buck. > > > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of > "factory > > > built" KR's showing up on > > > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this > well > > > designed and conceived > > > aircraft. > > > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > > > Aeronautical engineer to invent > > > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to > those > > > that love to build and fly > > > them. > > > I for one will not help you, and I don't think > you > > > will find much help here! > > > Timothy Bellville > > > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V > > > > Dear Mr. Bellville, > > > > I appreciat your response though I cannot agree > with > > you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I > are > > going to be working with Jenette at RR in every > kit we > > buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly > will > > be paying royalties to her. \ > > We decided on the KR series since it incorporates > > everything we sought in a good airplane. It has > the > > range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for > our > > sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. > We > > are building it because we feel that many would > like > > to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a > > relatively inexpensive price, and without having > to > > spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound > > program being set up and I am always open to > > suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family > of > > owners and pilots. > > I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 > > years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the > > building process and realize that the more I know, > the > > better the plane will be. We want to include a > BRS, a > > portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, > > transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, > not an > > option. > > I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any > > sound advice to us because we are always ready to > > listen. > > My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy > > Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend > to > > do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts > to > > be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to > the > > general public. We are spending our own money, > and we > > want no ones money except those that are buying > our > > product. We care for the plane as much as anyone > else > > does. Our questions I asked still could use some > > answers. > > > > Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider > and > > write again. > > > > Thank You, > > > > Gerald Locker > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:52:49 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030902015249.25212.qmail@web20510.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <001701c370a2$3782aeb0$7e7e0c44@blah> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 --- Mark Youkey wrote: > BGen Locker, > > Perhaps you should research some of the specs, then > apply some common sense, > before you get too involved. For instance, what is > the service ceiling of a > KR? At what altitude do the Marine Corps regs say > the pilot must be on > oxygen? What VFR pilots use that altitude block? > (Cancel my IFR clearance, > this is a 4-ship RTB VFR, descending below 18,000, > squawking 1200, wingmen > squawking standby.) Or perhaps someone climbing > over a mountain, but that's > about it...So, why is a portable oxygen system (that > weighs at least ten > pounds of your 35 pound baggage limit) going to be > standard? > > Just a thought for you to consider a bit more, to > assist your endeavors. > > Why exactly will your plant be in Tijuana? I'm > curious. > > v/r > Mark Youkey > myoukey@cox.net > Oklahoma City Dear Mr. Youkey, You made some good points that was what I was hoping to hear. We may have set our sights too high with the plane and need to go back to the basics. I sometime get carried away with a project and need to be brought back to earth. We are going to be in Tijuana for the advantages of NAFTA, low wages as compared to LA and less interference by governmental agencies, such as OSHA. We intend to abide by every rule that is in effect but my partner and I feel that the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. We will make them as experimental or under the LSA and will meet all requirements posed by the US FAA and the Mexican authorities. We intend to make 30-36 planes by the second year but feel it is realistic to say we shall produce only 7-10 during the first year. Thank you for your imput, I need to bail out some of my thoughts for a plane that is wonderful but should be allowed to do what it was designed to do. Thank you, Gerald Locker > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gerald locker" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > > > > > > --- Timothy Bellville > > wrote: > > > I sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent > the > > > wheel. > > > It also sounds like you have no plan to benefit > the > > > widow of the man that > > > designed this plain and construction concept. > > > Are you going to buy parts from R/R inc. ?Pay > them > > > royalties? > > > This little plain was meant to be a homebuilt, > and > > > built by people that > > > could not afford a Cessna. > > > You are trying to stand on the shoulders of > others > > > to make a buck. > > > I for one, do not want to see a bunch of > "factory > > > built" KR's showing up on > > > NTSB reports and dragging down the name of this > well > > > designed and conceived > > > aircraft. > > > Come up with your own concept, and hire a > > > Aeronautical engineer to invent > > > your new store-bought and leave the KR's to > those > > > that love to build and fly > > > them. > > > I for one will not help you, and I don't think > you > > > will find much help here! > > > Timothy Bellville > > > (homebuilt) KR2 N7038V > > > > Dear Mr. Bellville, > > > > I appreciat your response though I cannot agree > with > > you on most of your assumptions. My partner and I > are > > going to be working with Jenette at RR in every > kit we > > buy, and if we do produce our own, we certainly > will > > be paying royalties to her. \ > > We decided on the KR series since it incorporates > > everything we sought in a good airplane. It has > the > > range, the looks, the relative speed we sought for > our > > sales marketing to overseas, and to the States. > We > > are building it because we feel that many would > like > > to have a beautiful, safe, and reliable plane at a > > relatively inexpensive price, and without having > to > > spend 1000 + hours building it. We have a sound > > program being set up and I am always open to > > suggestions that will benefit us and the KR family > of > > owners and pilots. > > I am a former Marine General who has flown over 30 > > years, but I must admit that I am a novice at the > > building process and realize that the more I know, > the > > better the plane will be. We want to include a > BRS, a > > portable oxygen system, long range fuel tanks, > > transponder and GPS as part of the stock plane, > not an > > option. > > I am very sorry that you do not wish to offer any > > sound advice to us because we are always ready to > > listen. > > My partner owns, as well as his brother Accuracy > > Technologies in Glendale and Ventura and we intend > to > > do a lot of R&D on new engines and airplane parts > to > > be put in our own planes, as well as for sale to > the > > general public. We are spending our own money, > and we > > want no ones money except those that are buying > our > > product. We care for the plane as much as anyone > else > > does. Our questions I asked still could use some > > answers. > > > > Thank you for writing and hop you will reconsider > and > > write again. > > > > Thank You, > > > > Gerald Locker > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 145, Issue 3 *************************************