From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 148, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Location (Colin) 2. Re: glide ratio 3. Re: assembly plant (Dana Overall) 4. free engine mount and stand (larry severson) 5. RE: assembly plant (Ron Freiberger) 6. RE: assembly plant (Ron Freiberger) 7. Re: assembly plant (gerald locker) 8. Re: assembly plant (larry severson) 9. RE: assembly plant (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)) 10. RE: what glide ratio? (Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA) 11. RE: assembly plant-REALLY DEEP Pockets (Serge F. Vidal) 12. RE: assembly plant (Serge F. Vidal) 13. RE: assembly plant (Serge F. Vidal) 14. Winglets (JIM VANCE) 15. eBay 85 kr2 675tt (Richard Green) 16. RE: Stratomaster Glass Panels (Jeff Waldron) 17. RE: Stratomaster Glass Panels (Richard Green) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:54:38 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>Location Message-ID: <005201c37287$80615640$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 Sorry about the interruption, but Mark placed his power supply in the = stub wing for the strobes. I have 2 to deal with and want to know if = there is a problem locating them in the first bay of the outer wings = instead of the stub wings? Any comments.... I know this is a departure from the general but.... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From flykr2s@wi.rr.com Wed Sep 03 18:52:10 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.166.129]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19ujIA-000B3f-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:52:10 -0700 Received: from mark (CPE-65-31-89-55.wi.rr.com [65.31.89.55]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with SMTP id h841s0rx015501 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:54:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007401c37287$6b709e80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <155.23c4379e.2c87ef20@aol.com> <0d9401c37284$649064e0$1202a8c0@basement> <004b01c37286$59a92fb0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:54:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Everyone....take a chill pill. Remember we are all KR family and are here for one common reason. To learn about and build and fly KR's. Nothing else. All siblings have their spats and opinions. Look, listen , learn. KISS...keep it simple and safe. Remember the old saying "don't worry, be happy"? The gathering is a week away. WoooooHoooooooo Keep Smiling and think gathering. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:46 PM Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant > Dear Mark > > Although your post was not addressed to me directly, I take it that I > am the > ASS. I have not accused anyone of stepping on my freedom of speed, I > just wondered why my post was rejected. I don't know anything about > posts, and when the general said that he'd been "delisted" I thought > maybe I had been also. As I have explained, I meant nothing by using > capitals--in the shipping business, where telexes were our means of > communication for many years, that was all we had--and I certainly > didn't intend to shout. > > That said, however, I am not accustomed to being called an ass, and I > certainly wouldn't call someone that under similar circumstances. > > Max Hardberger > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:07:13 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>glide ratio Message-ID: <159.2408290e.2c87f851@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 If it doesn't have an engine it's a glider. Lynn dan, what I was referring to was the mim. requirment to be considered a glider. I seem to recall somewhere (I could be wrong) that the FAA (friendly aviator association) required at least a 20 to 1 glide ratio ie..747 ect.. Mike Turner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:12:04 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 >From: "Max Hardberger" >Although your post was not addressed to me directly, I take it that I >am >the >ASS. Dear Max, I common sense assume (no pun intended) that Mark was using the universally accepted play on words on you use of assume. If you haven't heard the saying it follows: "When you assume you make an ass out of .......u.......and...........me.........put them together and you get assume. I assume he was not calling you an ass. Lighten up and have a beer, better yet I'll lighten up and have a beer:-) Come to think of that dancing thing............heck, I don't think my wife of 23 years would even want to see such a thing. I guess that would warrant Mexican jail time............ Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:24:58 -0700 From: larry severson To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>free engine mount and stand Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903212224.00bc1f50@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Everyone who has contacted me about the free stand + mount has requested a weekend pickup. I will be available until 2PM this Saturday, Sept. 6th. Call first, in case my wife wants to go out to breakfast. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:45:39 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004b01c37286$59a92fb0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Don't feel bad; Mark gets a bit upset at times. ;o) Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Max Hardberger Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:46 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Dear Mark Although your post was not addressed to me directly, I take it that I am the ASS. I have not accused anyone of stepping on my freedom of speed, I just wondered why my post was rejected. I don't know anything about posts, and when the general said that he'd been "delisted" I thought maybe I had been also. As I have explained, I meant nothing by using capitals--in the shipping business, where telexes were our means of communication for many years, that was all we had--and I certainly didn't intend to shout. That said, however, I am not accustomed to being called an ass, and I certainly wouldn't call someone that under similar circumstances. Max Hardberger _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:47:37 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Dana; maybe we could sell tickets; I'd sure buy one. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:12 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant >From: "Max Hardberger" >Although your post was not addressed to me directly, I take it that I >am the ASS. Dear Max, I common sense assume (no pun intended) that Mark was using the universally accepted play on words on you use of assume. If you haven't heard the saying it follows: "When you assume you make an ass out of .......u.......and...........me.........put them together and you get assume. I assume he was not calling you an ass. Lighten up and have a beer, better yet I'll lighten up and have a beer:-) Come to think of that dancing thing............heck, I don't think my wife of 23 years would even want to see such a thing. I guess that would warrant Mexican jail time............ Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:00:04 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <20030904050004.20929.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <009701c37272$a597c0d0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 --- Max Hardberger wrote: > SORRY, MY LAST POST APPEARED. HERE IS THE TEXT OF A > PREVIOUS POST: > > The brigadier may have been misguided and have > approached the project > bass-ackward, but Sport Plane regulations are > coming, and, like it or not, > foreign-manufactured aircraft (completed, not kits) > are coming. In fact, I > am now working with a Ukrainian manufacturer who is > looking to get his > two-place taildragger approved for import when the > SP regulations are > implemented. > > For the same reasons that the members of this group > have chosen the KR > design, foreign manufacturers looking for a popular > design to convert to > assembly-line production methods will probably > consider the KR as well as > other present "homebuilt" designs. The appeal of an > aircraft for a > manufacturer lies in its lines and performance, not > in its construction > material or methods, which, in any case, would be > radically altered in the > process of tooling up for volume manufacturing. > > There are a number of advanced techniques gaining > acceptance among > manufacturers of lightweight, high-power vehicles, > including vacuum-bagging > and automated panel-lamination. Advances in > injection molding--and > particularly in strength-of-materials for non-fiber-reinforced > plastics--will probably allow, in the near future, > for non-labor-intensive > construction of molded fuselage panels and perhaps > even wings and control > surfaces. Although the tooling and start-up costs > for this kind of > manufacturing will probably always be beyond the > reach of homebuilders, they > do make sense for manufacturers. Such advances, and > the advantages of > pre-tooling and computer-controlled cutting, may > even make the production > aircraft lighter and more accurately built than the > average homebuilt KR. > > Further, the lines of the KR-2/2S appear suitable to > such techniques, being > relatively clean and free of protrubrances. The > questions of quality control > and commitment to safety are properly answered by > examining the corporate > philosophy of the manufacturer and his technical and financial > resources. There are many Russian and Ukrainian aircraft, for > example, that have stood > the test of time and have proven safe and reliable > aircraft, all (gasp!) > without FAA intervention or regulation. > > Certainly there is nothing improper in a prospective manufacturer > exploring the possibilities of taking advantage of the new > sport-plane regulations by > investigating existing designs before reinventing > the wheel, as long as he > makes the proper arrangements with the owner of any > design he decides to > use. It's just that he should bring aircraft > manufacturing expertise to the > project, and not alienate those in a position to > help him by showing his > lack of knowledge, i.e., by pronouncing an intention > to put a fixed O2 > system in a low-altitude aircraft. > > Max Hardberger > Admiralty Associates LLC > (877) 732-5298 tel. > (562) 684-4539 fax Dear Max, Let me explain again. I never said I was going to put a fixed oxygen system in the plane...only that I wanted a system (portable) that would be one of the standard features for our markteting pitch, along with the BRS, and a transponder. I am also not a novice in the business as I set up and ran the lightaircraft manufacturing plant in Bahrain under the auspices of the Royal family. These, however were all kits and high wing, and everything that was needed was supplied. What I am asking are things about the differences in the VW 1835 and the 2100 as well as the Revmaster, and the aerovee, and the rotax 914. Since the information is almost non-existent coming from Jeanette as we have sent faxs, and telephone calls to her for a meeting with her and to no avail. As for paying royalties, that would depend if we were planning on making our own from the plans, or continue buying the various components that are available. I am totally amazed that people can be so childish as if I am stepping on anyones toes. It is going to be done in Mexico and I want my partner and I to be the forerunner for this. Who ever does this first, and carefully, will be in the driver's seat. I have found some things that Jeanette does not mention about the KR and it is a bit distrubing, especially in the weight loads for the KR-2 and KR-2S which seems to be a lot higher than what it really is. We will obviously have to curtail some of the instruments we wanted on it and I am grateful for those that mentioned about these things. I passed on your name, company, and email, as well as fax and tel. to Mike. I am sure he will contact you, if nothing else but to touch base. Sincerely, Gerald Locker > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:45:34 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903222415.02905200@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20030904050004.20929.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> References: <009701c37272$a597c0d0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 > along with >the BRS, Add 2 feet to each wing + a 12 in. winglet mounted at a 45 degree angle would substantially increase either the lift capability or reduce the stall speed. The BRS creates a weight penalty that is unacceptable in a lightweight like the KR2. >and a transponder. I am also not a novice in >the business as I set up and ran the lightaircraft manufacturing plant >in Bahrain under the auspices of the Royal family. These, however were >all kits and high wing, and everything that was needed was >supplied. >What I am asking are things about the differences in >the VW 1835 Using the 1835 engine would not substantially lower the engine weight, but it would reduce the power available. With the longer wing, it would create a plane that had a low stall speed and a restricted cruise speed that could possibly meet the coming sport plane regs. >and the 2100 as well as the Revmaster, and >the aerovee, and the rotax 914. Since the information >is almost non-existent coming from Jeanette as we have >sent faxs, and telephone calls to her for a meeting >with her and to no avail. As for paying royalties, >that would depend if we were planning on making our >own from the plans, or continue buying the various >components that are available. I am totally amazed >that people can be so childish as if I am stepping on >anyones toes. Sorry, homebuilders are proud of their independence and resist trivializing what they are doing. They are also used to being frustrated in their efforts to gain easy knowledge as to techniques. This frustration shows up in what you call childish responses. Unfortunately, I am just as guilty as the rest of them a good part of the time. >It is going to be done in Mexico and I >want my partner and I to be the forerunner for this. >Who ever does this first, and carefully, will be in >the driver's seat. I have found some things that >Jeanette does not mention about the KR and it is a bit distrubing, >especially in the weight loads for the KR-2 and KR-2S which seems to be >a lot higher than what it really is. No, the plane can actually achieve the weights given. They are facts from the original KR2 built and flown by the designer. Because he was highly experienced in model building and resisted the desire to put in all sorts of excess equipment (for day VFR), he able to produce a strong a/c with out excess weight that met all of the specs listed. Most builders fail to match his figures because they: 1. over build the parts (weight) 2. add unneeded equipment, especially IFR (weight) Unfortunately, the plane that I am finishing came with an overbuilt boat stage and wings. I doubt that I will be able to finish it at under 600 lbs. That is why I will be extending the wings and adding winglets. I recognize that I will have additional parasite drag, but my wife and I will be able to take a load of fuel and still go a reasonable distance. >We will obviously have to curtail >some of the instruments we wanted on it and I am >grateful for those that mentioned about these things. I do not pretend to be an expert, but I do have 14,000+ hours of military and airline experience, plus aeronautics studies and wind tunnel testing in college. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:59:42 +0200 From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 Hi listers, As some of you may be know, I am more listener than reader, so rarely I try to ask some things here. Some time I have a very good answers, but many times just a chatter... Most of you experienced and less experienced builder think that every body know all you know (what is the stupid question about Fiberglas or epoxy :-) What I want to say, are you crazy for your neighbour just for that you are home builder? Why the general should be crazy for us? Sorry, you are great people, just some time we could not listen each other. There is one science fiction story about a team of scientist, they have a task to invent some things impossible. The reason for this was a short movie with this invention, but unfortunately his inventor crashed and dead. Nothing remains, just a short move. While most of scientist spent all the time to demonstrate this is impossible, a couple of them did that. But not as in that movie, more expensive and not portable :-) When they reported about their progress, they just say sorry, we could not create, at list now, more portable and less expensive. What was the answer? Thanks a lot! In reality there was nothing, the movie was a fiction, just for though, noting more. Our hopes were for people as you, who will try despite the fact that it is impossible. Not for those scientist who know very good the theory and do not try to think may be there is some thing wrong? BR, Alex Birca Moldova -----Original Message----- From: gerald locker [mailto:brigadier192003@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 8:00 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant --- Max Hardberger wrote: > SORRY, MY LAST POST APPEARED. HERE IS THE TEXT OF A > PREVIOUS POST: > > The brigadier may have been misguided and have > approached the project > bass-ackward, but Sport Plane regulations are > coming, and, like it or not, > foreign-manufactured aircraft (completed, not kits) > are coming. In fact, I > am now working with a Ukrainian manufacturer who is > looking to get his > two-place taildragger approved for import when the > SP regulations are > implemented. > > For the same reasons that the members of this group > have chosen the KR > design, foreign manufacturers looking for a popular > design to convert to > assembly-line production methods will probably > consider the KR as well as > other present "homebuilt" designs. The appeal of an > aircraft for a > manufacturer lies in its lines and performance, not > in its construction > material or methods, which, in any case, would be > radically altered in the > process of tooling up for volume manufacturing. > > There are a number of advanced techniques gaining > acceptance among > manufacturers of lightweight, high-power vehicles, > including vacuum-bagging > and automated panel-lamination. Advances in > injection molding--and > particularly in strength-of-materials for non-fiber-reinforced > plastics--will probably allow, in the near future, > for non-labor-intensive > construction of molded fuselage panels and perhaps > even wings and control > surfaces. Although the tooling and start-up costs > for this kind of > manufacturing will probably always be beyond the > reach of homebuilders, they > do make sense for manufacturers. Such advances, and > the advantages of > pre-tooling and computer-controlled cutting, may > even make the production > aircraft lighter and more accurately built than the > average homebuilt KR. > > Further, the lines of the KR-2/2S appear suitable to > such techniques, being > relatively clean and free of protrubrances. The > questions of quality control > and commitment to safety are properly answered by > examining the corporate > philosophy of the manufacturer and his technical and financial > resources. There are many Russian and Ukrainian aircraft, for > example, that have stood > the test of time and have proven safe and reliable > aircraft, all (gasp!) > without FAA intervention or regulation. > > Certainly there is nothing improper in a prospective manufacturer > exploring the possibilities of taking advantage of the new > sport-plane regulations by > investigating existing designs before reinventing > the wheel, as long as he > makes the proper arrangements with the owner of any > design he decides to > use. It's just that he should bring aircraft > manufacturing expertise to the > project, and not alienate those in a position to > help him by showing his > lack of knowledge, i.e., by pronouncing an intention > to put a fixed O2 > system in a low-altitude aircraft. > > Max Hardberger > Admiralty Associates LLC > (877) 732-5298 tel. > (562) 684-4539 fax Dear Max, Let me explain again. I never said I was going to put a fixed oxygen system in the plane...only that I wanted a system (portable) that would be one of the standard features for our markteting pitch, along with the BRS, and a transponder. I am also not a novice in the business as I set up and ran the lightaircraft manufacturing plant in Bahrain under the auspices of the Royal family. These, however were all kits and high wing, and everything that was needed was supplied. What I am asking are things about the differences in the VW 1835 and the 2100 as well as the Revmaster, and the aerovee, and the rotax 914. Since the information is almost non-existent coming from Jeanette as we have sent faxs, and telephone calls to her for a meeting with her and to no avail. As for paying royalties, that would depend if we were planning on making our own from the plans, or continue buying the various components that are available. I am totally amazed that people can be so childish as if I am stepping on anyones toes. It is going to be done in Mexico and I want my partner and I to be the forerunner for this. Who ever does this first, and carefully, will be in the driver's seat. I have found some things that Jeanette does not mention about the KR and it is a bit distrubing, especially in the weight loads for the KR-2 and KR-2S which seems to be a lot higher than what it really is. We will obviously have to curtail some of the instruments we wanted on it and I am grateful for those that mentioned about these things. I passed on your name, company, and email, as well as fax and tel. to Mike. I am sure he will contact you, if nothing else but to touch base. Sincerely, Gerald Locker > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:46:04 +0200 From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>what glide ratio? Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717461DBBE3@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 Larry, Steve I have about 300 ft/min descent rate on the VSI (KR2S GPAS 2180 / 900RPM idle). If I deploy the combined flaps/bellyboard the descent rate goes to 600 ft/min. If you leave a little power in (about 1100RPM) it will not settle onto the runway..... I flew gliders in my early days, but the KR for sure is very similar to a low performance glider. Cheers Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd -----Original Message----- From: SRMAKISH@aol.com [mailto:SRMAKISH@aol.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 03. September 2003 22:51 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>what glide ratio? Hi Larry. I looked back at my knee pad writings, this was about 10 years ago. I had the soob and did idle it at 1500 rpm to keep the temps up. With a 1.69 reduction this was about 850-900 rpm at the prop. I do know according to my notes that it took me a long time to get down to 1500 feet and that was 65 miles from the start of my decent. and 10 miles from my home field. I enjoyed the ride, locked on my wing leveler/autopilot and listened to my stereo !! It was a nice smooth ride. The Kr will fly at idle, and I did not have the nerve to shut down the engine although I have done that over a grass strip (Just in case) Cheers, Steve _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:56:52 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant-REALLY DEEP Pockets Message-ID: <000501c372c5$cc0354c0$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3724b$1cc08ac0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 According to me, the answer is a bit more complex. Up to these liability lawsuits, aircraft and aircraft parts were almost mass-produced, hence keeping costs low. And all things considered, airframes, which are very labour-intensive items, still come at a reasonable price. Engines and avionics don't. Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Still impounded by Customs in Tunis (Sob!) -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Bob Stone Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 7:42 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant-REALLY DEEP Pockets Scott, You are correct about everything you said to General Locker except the reason for certified aircraft being so high in price. Part of the reason of course is inflation but the real reason is law suits against aircraft manufactures. When I learned to fly way back in 1973 I could have bought a Cesna Skyhawk equiped for VFR flight for about $28,000.00 Now the same aircraft is more that $125,000.00 and the price increase is to cover the cost of paying judgments. Many aircraft manufactures stopped producing small aircraft for about ten years because of the damages they were having to pay out. This is also the reason so many people who want an aircraft and want to save money are buying a kit, taking it to one of the many so called business that advertise they will help. The aircraft is built almost l00% by the business and the customer is listed as the builder. Since the owner is shown on all the paperwork as the builder, he can sue no one if he has a accident. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant-REALLY DEEP Pockets > Dear Gen. Locker, > I sure hope that you and your partner's pockets are > REALLY deep. > In case you were not aware: The KR Series aircraft are homebuilt > experimental category aircraft. If you plan on selling completed > aircraft as stated earlier, the FAA would require you to certify this > aircraft per FAR23 for Utility Aircraft, and only use > certified aircraft components FAR 21-23. Or you could > spend the time and mega-bucks to go through the > process of certifying a VW or other automotive based > engine. (not likely). Also you will need to get > Import Airworthiness Approval: "This approval > (documentation) is required for airworthiness > certification of aircraft, engines, propellers, > materials, parts, and appliances imported into the > United States from any country that has a > bilateral agreement with the United States." > Type in qutes were copied directly from: > http://www2.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/ > > The reason why most General Aviation aircraft are so expensive, is > that they have completed a rigorous certification process, and all of > their components have underwent a similar certification process. > > So if you would like to continue in this venture, > you are most certainly going to need to employ several qualified > Strength Engineers, several Quality Control engineers, and several > Liason engineers, for at least 24 months just to get started. > It is certainly generous of you to offer the KR > community TYPE certification, thankfully,most KR > builders will be able to have their aircraft certified > as type by being able to prove similar build methods > and materials. Wow, no more experimental placards, > lower insurance..... > While you are at with those deep pockets, I'm an > Aerospace Design Engineer, have my MRB, and am also a > KR builder. If you're hiring, are you offering > benefits? I'll need 3 weeks paid vacation, full > medical and dental, 401k...Matching up to 7%? > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Linden, MI > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:08:53 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <000701c372c5$d9d64d50$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <004b01c37286$59a92fb0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 I like the concept of "Freedom of Speed!) Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC (Planning an escape from Tunis Customs store) -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Max Hardberger Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:46 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant Dear Mark Although your post was not addressed to me directly, I take it that I am the ASS. I have not accused anyone of stepping on my freedom of speed, I just wondered why my post was rejected. I don't know anything about posts, and when the general said that he'd been "delisted" I thought maybe I had been also. As I have explained, I meant nothing by using capitals--in the shipping business, where telexes were our means of communication for many years, that was all we had--and I certainly didn't intend to shout. That said, however, I am not accustomed to being called an ass, and I certainly wouldn't call someone that under similar circumstances. Max Hardberger _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:07:08 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>assembly plant Message-ID: <000601c372c5$d4cca110$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <004501c37284$6f245f10$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 FINE! AS A NON-NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER, I GUESS I WILL HAVE TO SHOUT FROM NOW ON! :-) Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC (Still feelin' lonely at Tunis Customs store!) -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Max Hardberger Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:33 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>assembly plant I'm sorry, I didn't intend to shout. Many of my clients are not native English speakers, and I sometimes type in capitals for clarity. I meant nothing more. Since this is the only list I've ever been on, I didn't realize that capitals would be taken as "shouting." Max _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:54:22 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>Winglets Message-ID: <00a501c37340$afb6cd80$0600a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 14 Steven Eberhart-- Thanks the specific and pertinent information about the design of wing = tips. It helps to understand what I am trying to do, and information = like this will point me in the best direction. Will Rogers once said, "We're all dumb, only in different areas." I = don't know where it is that I'm smart, but the area of wing design is = not the place. Jim Vance = Vance@ClaflinWildcats.comFrom wynoose@bellsouth.net Thu Sep 04 05:33:10 2003 Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19utIU-000HBI-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 05:33:10 -0700 Received: from mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.155]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with SMTPid <20030904123506.RZTO13779.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:35:06 -0400 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.11 (webedge20-101-194-20030622) From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Winglets Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 8:35:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030904123506.RZTO13779.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: what effect would 2 ft/wing extension combined with the xx46 modifaction have on a standard length kr 2 sporting a corvair? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:08:17 -0500 From: "Richard Green" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: KR>eBay 85 kr2 675tt Message-ID: <001001c372fe$c16fb8d0$9e001e43@greenhome2a1> In-Reply-To: <01C36EF3.4A613A20@AUDIO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2429704435 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:34:27 -0400 From: Jeff Waldron To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>Stratomaster Glass Panels Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 Do you have a link? -----Original Message----- From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:46 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Stratomaster Glass Panels Has anyone looked at the Stratomaster line of glass panels? Does anyone have any experience with them? They look like a heck of deal...! mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:44:58 -0500 From: "Richard Green" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Stratomaster Glass Panels Message-ID: <000801c3730c$431d47a0$09001e43@greenhome2a1> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/stratomaster.html -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Waldron Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:34 PM To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>Stratomaster Glass Panels Do you have a link? -----Original Message----- From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:46 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Stratomaster Glass Panels Has anyone looked at the Stratomaster line of glass panels? Does anyone have any experience with them? They look like a heck of deal...! mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 148, Issue 1 *************************************